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I'm Sorry

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19 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I found the continued escalation of the fake relationship with the teacher to be over the top for even Andrea who is often over the top.

I kept thinking "Really?  This subplot is still part of the storyline?".  I would have expected that to be dead with the last episode.

1 hour ago, JasmineFlower said:

I didn't think Andrea needed to turn into herself at the end of the convo with her "put ya dick away" she was actually in the school at the time and it was time to let it be by that point,

I see this as another example that Andrea is just too into her own sexuality.

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Everything about this show/her character is inappropriate.  I'm guessing that's the whole point.  It's probably useful to bear in mind that the title of the show is I'm Sorry.

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In reading some of these comments, I keep thinking that if a man had this part, he wouldn't receive any of this criticism. An entire genre is based on men being "too much". God forbid a woman be funny and think herself sexy. Does she think she's Jerry Seinfeld, Tim Allen, Jim Belushi, Louis C.K., Aziz Ansari, Dane Cook, Daniel Tosh, etc., etc., etc.? Give me a goddamn break.

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I think that in the context that she’s a comedian and that comedians are known for being “too much” in general and letting bits go on too long and being generally obnoxious, nothing she’s doing is remarkable.

Maybe we should all agree to disagree. 

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20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I like that she calls him "Ted" even though she doesn't really know his first name. But I agree it was a little disturbing how he played along in the joke. Inappropriate. 

Sending a sexually suggestive e-mail, text or photo to the wrong person is a pretty unoriginal idea, too. 

I think the thing with the baby sitter was mostly just played for laughs. I've never heard of anyone using the nickname "front tushy" before, and they took it as a sign there was something not-quite-right with that girl, as would I. They must have figured they could just find someone else, and when they couldn't they decided they could live with it. 

I've heard it called a front butt before and front tushy is kind of like that but less vulgar.

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4 hours ago, bilgistic said:

In reading some of these comments, I keep thinking that if a man had this part, he wouldn't receive any of this criticism. An entire genre is based on men being "too much". God forbid a woman be funny and think herself sexy. Does she think she's Jerry Seinfeld, Tim Allen, Jim Belushi, Louis C.K., Aziz Ansari, Dane Cook, Daniel Tosh, etc., etc., etc.? Give me a goddamn break.

My issue with this specific episode is that it wasn’t funny and it wasn’t really grounded in the (hyper)reality of the show. The reason I love the show is because even if it’s heightened and over the top I usually find it fairly realistic and that wasn’t the case for the long extended bit about the teacher and most of all I didn’t find it funny.

To me this episode felt like a first draft from the unfunny dead kid joke (I have no problem with making a dead kid joke it just should be funny) or even little details like you no longer need a medical marijuana card to get weed in California. Or how her mom found out about the sex dream, it doesn’t seem like something Mike would tell her and she doesn’t hang out with any of Amelia’s friends parents. I suppose she could have told her brother but it again just seemed poorly written.

Edited by biakbiak
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I liked that the teacher played along. It defused the situation and it was surprising, since he seems to buttoned up all the time. There's a tendency for things to blow up and become bigger deals than they need to be and he and Andrea both managed to take responsibility for not letting that happen. I would not have liked it if Andrea hadn't apologized, and it was kind of a risky strategy for him. If she had not reacted well, it could have been very messy. But the fact that it turned out okay made me like both of them more.

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On 3/8/2019 at 1:22 PM, bilgistic said:

In reading some of these comments, I keep thinking that if a man had this part, he wouldn't receive any of this criticism. An entire genre is based on men being "too much". God forbid a woman be funny and think herself sexy.  Does she think she's Jerry Seinfeld, Tim Allen, Jim Belushi, Louis C.K., Aziz Ansari, Dane Cook, Daniel Tosh, etc., etc., etc.? Give me a goddamn break.

Believe me, if it was a guy talking about how sexy he was all the time, I would get tired of it just as quickly, probably quicker.  I don't recall any of those male comedians you mentioned spending copious amounts of time demonstrating how hot they think they are.

Let me reiterate though, I like the show, I like Andrea, I just find this aspect of it distracting.

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On 3/8/2019 at 5:11 PM, biakbiak said:

My issue with this specific episode is that it wasn’t funny and it wasn’t really grounded in the (hyper)reality of the show. The reason I love the show is because even if it’s heightened and over the top I usually find it fairly realistic and that wasn’t the case for the long extended bit about the teacher and most of all I didn’t find it funny.

To me this episode felt like a first draft from the unfunny dead kid joke (I have no problem with making a dead kid joke it just should be funny) or even little details like you no longer need a medical marijuana card to get weed in California. Or how her mom found out about the sex dream, it doesn’t seem like something Mike would tell her and she doesn’t hang out with any of Amelia’s friends parents. I suppose she could have told her brother but it again just seemed poorly written.

I can EASILY see Andrea telling her mother.  She tells her everything else so why not this? 

I like Andrea.  I think she's funny.  Is it often cringe-worthy because she takes it too far?  Yes, but to me in a very funny way.  Because she realizes she's doing it but it seems like once she gets started she just needs to keep going and often times regrets it afterwards.  As far as her "thinking she's sexy"- it's mostly with Mike.  Her husband.  Who SHOULD be attracted to her.  But, again, Andrea mostly pushes it past sexy on purpose because she doesn't really think she IS all that sexy. That's how I see it.  Yes, she shows off her belly, but I would too if I had one like that!!! 

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1 hour ago, Whimsy said:

can EASILY see Andrea telling her mother.  She tells her everything else so why not this? 

I could see her telling her but she was surprised that her mother knew.

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33 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I could see her telling her but she was surprised that her mother knew.

I guess I missed that part.  When her mom was talking about it, I just assumed Andrea told her.  

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I think Andrea told her mother about her sex dream. She isn’t ashamed of it nor should she be; it’s just another funny bit to her. 

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I know longer have the recording but the look she gives her and her response to her mom talking about it is one of surprise and she definitely wasn’t happy that her mother brought it up or at least that’s how it read to me and the people I was watching with which goes back to the fact that I don’t think this was a well written episode.

I believe her mom says “from what I’ve heard...” which would be a weird phrasing if Andrea told her.

Edited by biakbiak

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I enjoyed this episode much more!

Andrea’s hatred of Mike’s Santa Barbara tank top never got old to me but I adored the fact that it was a bit!!!

Have we seen their backyard before? I love it! The exteriors on this show make me happy.

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7 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I enjoyed this episode much more!

Andrea’s hatred of Mike’s Santa Barbara tank top never got old to me but I adored the fact that it was a bit!!!

Have we seen their backyard before? I love it! The exteriors on this show make me happy.

I'm so sad that was the season finale! But damn, yes, that backyard was enviable. And I love that the conclusion of a season-long arc let Mike get one up on Andrea in a long con-- and she loved it.

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That was a great ending. It showed that Mike is just as capable of pulling something off without her knowing it and that she appreciates it rather than resents it. I never really understood her problem with the tank tops. Maybe they're not for everyone but it's not all that weird. To find out he planned this all along and gave her the big old middle finger in the video was hilarious. 

I also thought it was sweet, in Andrea's own twisted way, that she admitted she loved her Mom more than she thought she did when she started to think about her dying. 

It was weird that Amelia was absent but I didn't exactly miss her.

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That was the season finale?  Wow, that went fast.  I could have used a few more episodes, maybe round it out to 16.  Oh well, I'm sure there will be other things for me to waste my time watching.

On 3/11/2019 at 8:35 AM, Whimsy said:

As far as her "thinking she's sexy"- it's mostly with Mike.  Her husband.  Who SHOULD be attracted to her.  But, again, Andrea mostly pushes it past sexy on purpose because she doesn't really think she IS all that sexy.

I guess I was the one who brought this up, so let me make this clear:  It's not that I think the character thinks she sexy, I get the impression the actress thinks she's sexy, because of the acting choices she makes (all the little shimmying she does and such), and the situations and dialogue she writes into the show.  She created the show, and presumably is one of the main writers.  That said, I guess she is actually pretty hot, so I'm ready to let it drop.

27 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

That was a great ending. It showed that Mike is just as capable of pulling something off without her knowing it and that she appreciates it rather than resents it. I never really understood her problem with the tank tops.

I don't get her problem with tank tops either, I guess we all have our little idiosyncracies.  I don't like to see men's bare feet in sandals.  I've heard of people objecting to tank tops around food before, but that's about it.

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Mike is usually such a passive character, it was nice seeing him do something other than be an audience for Andrea's schtick. 

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It might be irrational but I share Andrea’s hatred of men in tank tops. Particularly that kind of loose armed one.

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1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

It might be irrational but I share Andrea’s hatred of men in tank tops. Particularly that kind of loose armed one.

If I could like this a thousand times,  I would. Tank tops on men just bug me.

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15 hours ago, biakbiak said:

It might be irrational but I share Andrea’s hatred of men in tank tops. Particularly that kind of loose armed one.

Same. I once put the kabash on a booty call because the guy showed up in a purple tank top. It was 20 years ago and I can still picture that ugly thing. So yeah, tank tops on men can be real lady-boner killers!

On topic! This was a great episode to end out the season. The tank top joke reveal was hilarious, and Andrea’s reaction was perfect!

I LOVED that blue dress A wore to the funeral. Damn that’s inspiring me to get back the gym!

Edited by Duke2801
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I think the tank top issue boils down to the problem that most that wear them, shouldn't.

Her hubby is not buff.  I adore him for fucking with her and pulling the prank

Good epi overall.  Still LOL on this show

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16 hours ago, biakbiak said:

It might be irrational but I share Andrea’s hatred of men in tank tops. Particularly that kind of loose armed one.

The worst. Completely Team Andrea on that one. It just denotes a certain kind of UBER-cheesy dude, like he should be on Jersey Shore or something.

I worry that that's it. I never see any press on this show and I don't know a single person who doesn't live at my apartment who watches it. Maybe since it's on a weird niche channel and doesn't have a mega-budget they'll still renew it anyway to have a signature show of some sort? Is anyone more in the know on such things than I am?

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Briefly reconsidering men in tank tops:

1819715960_Idristanktop.jpg.2039e3fb1d569668727e0c954bc3e4f9.jpg

  (Sorry for cutting Idris's head off, but for the purposes of this post it was the least important part.)  😈

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11 hours ago, zillabreeze said:

think the tank top issue boils down to the problem that most that wear them, shouldn't.

Her hubby is not buff.  I adore him for fucking with her and pulling the prank

For me no person would look good in the kind of tank top that Mike was wearing.

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A couple of episodes back, there was some discussion here about how if a man had made the private jokes that Andrea made to Mike, sexualizing little girls, there would've been some serious backlash.  It just occurred to me that if there was a gender switch about the whole tank-top issue, and Mike told Andrea repeatedly what it was and wasn't okay for her to wear, viewers would go equally nuts (assuming it was taken seriously, and not just a joke b/w partners).  I know that if my husband tried to approve of my clothes, he'd find all the locks in the house changed next time he went out.  It's funny what people object to and what just sails right by.

And I would never presume to tell Idris what to wear.  He could wear clown shoes for all I'd care.

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1 hour ago, Mondrianyone said:

know that if my husband tried to approve of my clothes, he'd find all the locks in the house changed next time he went out.  It's funny what people object to and what just sails right by.

But he still wore it and she didn’t actually do anything about it. I have this old sweatshirt that my boyfriend absolutely hates and we make jokes back and forth about it. 

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22 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

Same. I once put the kabash on a booty call because the guy showed up in a purple tank top. It was 20 years ago and I can still picture that ugly thing. So yeah, tank tops on men can be real lady-boner killers!

All this fuss about tank tops.  On the other hand, tank tops on girls tend to look hot, as long as she is attractive.

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I worry that that's it. I never see any press on this show and I don't know a single person who doesn't live at my apartment who watches it. Maybe since it's on a weird niche channel and doesn't have a mega-budget they'll still renew it anyway to have a signature show of some sort? Is anyone more in the know on such things than I am?

Well, the show also airs on Netflix, so that might make it somewhat more lucrative for TruTV. 

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Leon has a long slender penis.  Haha!! I would be horrified to learn such a thing from my mom.  The tank top reveal was awesome!

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This show kills me. And with my anniversary coming up (25th! How'd that happen?), I am tempted to borrow the contract idea. 

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On 1/29/2019 at 11:40 PM, iMonrey said:

But sometimes I feel like Andrea is a little too "on" 100% of the time, like the entire episode is one long stand-up bit. I've heard Andrea Savage on podcasts (she's good friends with Chris Hardwick) and that's pretty much how she talks all the time, like every conversation is a potential bit. I think eventually it would be exhausting to be around her.

Agree 100%. This season, I was far too often annoyed with how OTT Andrea was behaving compared with S1. It was especially incongruous when she needed to be forceful, with Shorts (over the behavior of his renters) and chickened out for really no good reason other than plot service. Some rando rings your doorbell, comes in and vomits all over the place... and you *don't* know how to bring that up to your neighbor who leased the house to those people? Please.

On 2/14/2019 at 4:18 AM, zillabreeze said:

BUT!!! I hate the daughter's speech impediment or whatever it is with the heat of a thousand suns.   Apparently, someone thinks it's a cute sound, because they cast kids with it all the time.  I just can't.

Thank god, I have been asking people about this in other forums and I seemed to have been the only person who noticed/was distracted/totally annoyed by it. I'm at the point where I wish they'd minimize the child's appearances if they're not going to get the actress a speech therapist.

On 3/8/2019 at 1:47 AM, iMonrey said:

Sending a sexually suggestive e-mail, text or photo to the wrong person is a pretty unoriginal idea, too. 

Plus, the show already mined that situation last season, in the finale - Andrea accidentally sent one of the schools Amelia was accepted to the picture of the woman biting the guy's dick. Which never really made sense to me, given how much time they spent establishing that the image file was buried away in a old tax folder - why would she have been in that folder in the first place in order to have accidentally attached it to the school email?

I don't know, I like a lot of things about this show but I found myself more distracted by shortcomings and inconsistencies this season. 

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28 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

Thank god, I have been asking people about this in other forums and I seemed to have been the only person who noticed/was distracted/totally annoyed by it. I'm at the point where I wish they'd minimize the child's appearances if they're not going to get the actress a speech therapist.

Perhaps we're just heartless souls that don't "get" cute.  But we are not alone.!  'Annoying kids in commercials' was started with "Cawowine" from some dating website doing that babytalk lisp thing. IIRC, she was 10ish and it was supposed to tug at our heartstrings, instead it was like nails on a chalkboard and started a forum  It's babytalk that should stop at 3.  It didn't work for Cindy Brady, and 4 decades later, it still doesn't work 

I was so thrilled that the little snot was not anywhere to be seen in the last episode.  The only reason she's needed is to have a reason to hang at the school - where some of the funniest convos take place.  Otherwise it's a VERY adult comedy.

To be fair, it's probably not the kid's fault.  Adults in her world have most likely oohed & cooed about it, reinforcing the behavior.  

Don't even get me started on grown women talking babytalk....

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21 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

It's funny what people object to and what just sails right by.

I have to let everything on this show sail by and just roll with it.  It would be really easy to analyze and dissect, but there are so few original comedies out there, that I cling to anything that gets a few LOLs out of me.

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5 hours ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

Agree 100%. This season, I was far too often annoyed with how OTT Andrea was behaving compared with S1. ...

I don't know, I like a lot of things about this show but I found myself more distracted by shortcomings and inconsistencies this season. 

Agree. I absolutely adored this show in season one. Like loved, loved, LOVED. This season I'm behind and when I asked my husband if he wanted to watch one to catch up, he said no, because Savage is getting on his nerves. And while I don't exactly feel the same and still mostly enjoy this watch; I see it. Show seems to have lost the good heart it had underneath the coarseness, and is now mostly about the shock value stuff. Which, frankly, wasn't at all why I was watching. 

It's a tightrope that few shows do well. Catastrophe and Fleabag being the only ones I can think of, and while I'd put season 1 of I'm Sorry in that group, I can't say the same about season 2.

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On 3/8/2019 at 7:22 PM, bilgistic said:

In reading some of these comments, I keep thinking that if a man had this part, he wouldn't receive any of this criticism. An entire genre is based on men being "too much". God forbid a woman be funny and think herself sexy. Does she think she's Jerry Seinfeld, Tim Allen, Jim Belushi, Louis C.K., Aziz Ansari, Dane Cook, Daniel Tosh, etc., etc., etc.? Give me a goddamn break.

The only person even remotely comparable vis-a-vis having a similar series would be Jerry Seinfeld - and really unnamed, by extension, Larry David, whose Curb Your Enthusiasm has more in common with I'm Sorry than Seinfeld does. God knows, I have no interest in the 'comedy' of Allen, Belushi, LCK, Cook, Tosh, etc. (Ansari generally plays it fairly clean with his Master Of None character as nerdy, neurotic and needy - not at all what's being suggested here.)

Having established that: No, this is not a gender-based criticism. Larry is outrageous but his character is more consistent and the plots of Curb (well, until the most recent season, which was a super-sized mess) more cohesive than I'm Sorry. I never once have felt watching Curb, "Wow, Larry David just loves to write excuses for himself to get naked in a scene" - a thought I had several times during this season of I'm Sorry.  The few times you'll see Larry pull his punches in a confrontation tend to be because he's literally intimidated ("Thor"), not just out of plot service. 

In short, I think it's obvious that Savage doesn't have the creative discipline of David to know when to pull back on being outrageous for the sake of outrageousness and ground her character's outspoken tendencies into more organic moments. Her character's interactions with others need to stop feeling like an excuse for Savage to perform stand-up, with those other characters just thinly-veiled excuses for Savage to act out in front of them, with very little believable response in return.

This show went from being one of my favorites in season one to one of my biggest disappointments in season two. You cannot chalk that criticism up to sexism. It's a failure of showrunning. 

Edited by CaliCheeseSucks
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1 hour ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

The only person even remotely comparable vis-a-vis having a similar series would be Jerry Seinfeld - and really unnamed, by extension, Larry David, whose Curb Your Enthusiasm has more in common with I'm Sorry than Seinfeld does. God knows, I have no interest in the 'comedy' of Allen, Belushi, LCK, Cook, Tosh, etc. (Ansari generally plays it fairly clean with his Master Of None character as nerdy, neurotic and needy - not at all what's being suggested here.)

Having established that: No, this is not a gender-based criticism. Larry is outrageous but his character is more consistent and the plots of Curb (well, until the most recent season, which was a super-sized mess) more cohesive than I'm Sorry. I never once have felt watching Curb, "Wow, Larry David just loves to write excuses for himself to get naked in a scene" - a thought I had several times during this season of I'm Sorry.  The few times you'll see Larry pull his punches in a confrontation tend to be because he's literally intimidated ("Thor"), not just out of plot service. 

In short, I think it's obvious that Savage doesn't have the creative discipline of David to know when to pull back on being outrageous for the sake of outrageousness and ground her character's outspoken tendencies into more organic moments. Her character's interactions with others need to stop feeling like an excuse for Savage to perform stand-up, with those other characters just thinly-veiled excuses for Savage to act out in front of them, with very little believable response in return.

This show went from being one of my favorites in season one to one of my biggest disappointments in season two. You cannot chalk that criticism up to sexism. It's a failure of showrunning. 

I agree, especially with Savage and her need to perform stand up and perform bits in each scene as opposed to an organic acting moment. At first I thought that her acting was just bad but I realized it was not bad it was that she was turning every scene into a comedy bit.

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2 hours ago, juno said:

I agree, especially with Savage and her need to perform stand up and perform bits in each scene as opposed to an organic acting moment. At first I thought that her acting was just bad but I realized it was not bad it was that she was turning every scene into a comedy bit.

Another thing that really drove me crazy this season: The overbearing attempt to nickname things, which seems like her trying to make buzzwords from the show happen. It reminds me of the commentary from Seinfeld episode "The Yada Yada" where the writer Peter Mehlman was certain 'anti-dentite' was going to takeoff but instead 'yada yada' was what caught on; or "The Strike," which included the Festivus details based on one of the writer's fathers, never imagining it would take on a life of its own.

But then again, I also think Seinfeld had a stronger supporting cast around its titular character and thus, those things *could* spring organically out of the mouths of others. I don't think Andrea Savage, the showrunner, really wants to 'share' what she thinks are the potentially buzzworthy bits with the characters in Andrea Savage, the character's, universe. She wants to perform them all herself and this season, it made the show almost unbearable.

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On 3/16/2019 at 2:52 PM, zillabreeze said:

I was so thrilled that the little snot was not anywhere to be seen in the last episode.  The only reason she's needed is to have a reason to hang at the school - where some of the funniest convos take place.

I get the impression that they have a very convenient parenting life.  It seems like the kid is always in her room or somewhere else so the adults can talk about penises or Andrea's butthole or whatever it is.  In a recent episode, they brought her in just so she could smell the neighbors smoking weed, which gave them the excuse to usher her back off camera again.  Not that any of this bothers me, because I don't watch for the kid.  It just strikes me that they are the least stressed parents I've ever seen, their parenting life seems extremely easy.

22 hours ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

This show went from being one of my favorites in season one to one of my biggest disappointments in season two. You cannot chalk that criticism up to sexism. It's a failure of showrunning. 

I agree with your criticisms of the show, although they do not bother me as much.  I still like the show, and I would definitely miss it if isn't renewed for another season.

By the way, does anyone else think that the poster art for I'm Sorry season 2 is kind odd?  The one where it looks sort of like spaghetti coming out of her mouth?  What is that supposed to be, anyway?

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49 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I get the impression that they have a very convenient parenting life.  It seems like the kid is always in her room or somewhere else so the adults can talk about penises or Andrea's butthole or whatever it is.  In a recent episode, they brought her in just so she could smell the neighbors smoking weed, which gave them the excuse to usher her back off camera again.  Not that any of this bothers me, because I don't watch for the kid.  It just strikes me that they are the least stressed parents I've ever seen, their parenting life seems extremely easy.

I agree with your criticisms of the show, although they do not bother me as much.  I still like the show, and I would definitely miss it if isn't renewed for another season.

By the way, does anyone else think that the poster art for I'm Sorry season 2 is kind odd?  The one where it looks sort of like spaghetti coming out of her mouth?  What is that supposed to be, anyway?

I think it's supposed to be like a "verbal diarrhea" situation where she says too much and gets herself into trouble. 

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I still like the show, but I do agree that sometimes it got a little repetitive this season. They used to actually show more of the awkward parenting moments, and I liked that. So I guess I'd want more of the kid, not less, though I still wouldn't want the kid to be around all the time.

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To be fair, Andrea Savage had a proverbial lifetime to write the first season, which was based off of her real-life marital and parenting situations. Every idea she had she put into the first season. Then it got renewed and she had a matter of weeks to come up with new ideas and write an entire second season. So I think a bit of a sophomore slump can be attributed to timing. 

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I think the second season suffered from Jason M. being absent for the majority. He and Andrea Savage have a great rapport, and his take on her home situations was a nice framing device.

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On 3/27/2019 at 8:13 PM, iMonrey said:

To be fair, Andrea Savage had a proverbial lifetime to write the first season, which was based off of her real-life marital and parenting situations. Every idea she had she put into the first season. Then it got renewed and she had a matter of weeks to come up with new ideas and write an entire second season. So I think a bit of a sophomore slump can be attributed to timing. 

That's a bit off - TruTV announced it was renewed in August 2017. Filming on season two began... oof, it wasn't until mid or late summer 2018. Can't remember when I started seeing her Tweets about it. But it was in the ballpark of a full year between renewal and production of season two.

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13 hours ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

That's a bit off - TruTV announced it was renewed in August 2017. Filming on season two began... oof, it wasn't until mid or late summer 2018. Can't remember when I started seeing her Tweets about it. But it was in the ballpark of a full year between renewal and production of season two.

The timing may be off, but it's still a valid point.  This is something that used to happen with rock bands (when such things used to exist).  They had years to write their best material, which went onto their first album.  Then when they had to do the second album, they had to come up with stuff from scratch or go with songs that weren't good enough to put on the first album.  Back when things such as albums used to exist.  It's called the sophomore jinx.  

Andrea does have a large staff of writers to write with though.  So she could always lean on their ideas, but that may change the tone a bit.

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1 hour ago, rmontro said:

The timing may be off, but it's still a valid point.  This is something that used to happen with rock bands (when such things used to exist).  They had years to write their best material, which went onto their first album.  Then when they had to do the second album, they had to come up with stuff from scratch or go with songs that weren't good enough to put on the first album.  Back when things such as albums used to exist.  It's called the sophomore jinx.  

Andrea does have a large staff of writers to write with though.  So she could always lean on their ideas, but that may change the tone a bit.

I think it changes the point significantly. The difference between two weeks notice from renewal to production start time and a year is significant. Plus, you can flip the argument on its head: Most shows *find* their voice once they're past the awkward 'setting up' season and have enough episodes under their belts to know what (and who) works and what (and who) isn't working.  Savage certainly had more time to prepare for season two of I'm Sorry than, say, Dan Harmon with Community, Michael Schur of Parks & Recreation and The Office or Tina Fey & 30 Rock.  There's a long list of shows - including those previously mentioned, though many more beyond that - whose second seasons are considered at or near perfect after wobbly starts. In fact, Schur has rather famously said that (not the exact quote) after the first six episodes of a show are done, the real first season should start, because it takes about six episodes to really know how the show is going.

I just don't buy that Savage had a sophomore slump or she was too pressed for time. What we saw this season is what she has when she does in fact have a very long lead time from renewal to shooting. In my opinion, it just wasn't very good.

Edited by CaliCheeseSucks
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5 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

I think it changes the point significantly. The difference between two weeks notice from renewal to production start time and a year is significant. Plus, you can flip the argument on its head: Most shows *find* their voice once they're past the awkward 'setting up' season

Well, a year is a drop in the bucket compared to a lifetime, especially when Savage is 46.  I just looked that up - damn, she looks fantastic for 46, I had no idea she was that old.

Good point about the often awkward first season though.

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