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caracas1914

By caracas1914
in Glee [V]

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Ceeg
Ceeg

Mileage could not vary any more than it does right now.

grandemocha
grandemocha

Can I just say, who gives a shit about his career? I have now heard several times people lament about Mark's career? His career SHOULD be over, but unfortunately it likely won't. I hope he is never ag

GaT
GaT

The time for him to have gotten help was before he committed crimes against children.  Now would have been too late, he wasn't the victim.

caracas1914

caracas1914

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Wow, Naya apparently did dish some in her book:

http://naya-rivera.com/post/149777454020/sorry-not-sorry-details-on-big-sean-lea-michele

Some excerpts: Caveat: this seems to be from a Naya fan site and the person's take on her book (ie I don't think she referenced Lea by name)

Quote

- During the episode Chris directed with the old people and the dogs, Lea was pulling a diva fit about everything and eventually was locking herself in her trailer. And Naya was ready for them to do a diner scene and she was on her mark with her lines ready and nobody else was, and one of the producers was just chilling on a diner stool and she went up to him and was like “Where’s the rest of the scene? Aren’t going to do anything about this?” and he freaked out and started yelling at her in front of everybody and was was like “I’ve been doing this job for 6 years!” And she was like “Yeah, badly.” 

<Chuckle> no wonder (allegedly) Brad Falchuk threw her off set.

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KatWay

KatWay

Wow! I didn't expect Naya to actually give us some dirt. I'm sure between Naya & Lea both would say the other was in the wrong so I take it with a grain of salt but still. The producers just not caring is exactly how I imagined Glee was shot.

The part about Big Sean...why do girls stay with guys like that? Her friend dies and he doesn't even comfort her? That entire relationship just screams bad decision I'm sure at this point she realises that and is glad he broke up with her.  Cory seems to be the one person really everyone liked on set. I wonder if things deteriorated more quickly in terms of fights and tensions after his death because he wasn't there anymore.

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shantown

shantown

14 hours ago, KatWay said:

Cory seems to be the one person really everyone liked on set. I wonder if things deteriorated more quickly in terms of fights and tensions after his death because he wasn't there anymore.

That's an interesting point. I wonder if it wasn't much that he was the peacekeeper around set, but that being there with his memory and having to act out Finn's death and memory repeatedly wore on them mentally to the point where the whole set just gave everyone a bad feeling.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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(edited)

By the time of Corey's tragic death it was obvious that he wasn't exactly among the favored cast members of Glee anymore of the producers.  While everyone  (cough..cough..RIB..cough cough) gave lip service to how so much of the show revolved around Cory and his S/L, all indications were he was being more than somewhat sidelined. They needed him to anchor the McKinley side, but that was pretty much it; Finn becoming  the new sad sack version of Mr. Schuester but without the vests.

Sure it was horrible and didn't help matters at all when Cory died, but it just seems too convenient to pin things on that, when the producers had jumped ship way before that, what  with the show already a mess with two locations and shoving everything down the McKinley narrative while still marginalizing the character of Finn in many ways.  The cast  seemed splintered by season 4 before Cory died.  Certainly it appears that Diana and Naya were no longer on good terms with Lea, Chris throwing shade on the Klaine focus for his character, and Matt Morrison openly complaining about being underutilized, etc, and I'm sure raising Darren to the new Lead didn't help morale with Original cast members that were being shunted aside.   I'm just saying that even with Cory's death, at first the producers still wanted to shove the McKinley narrative down the audience's throat, so the demise of the show lies squarely on the producers and their God awful writing and apathetic indifference to any coherence ,consistent characterization or continuity.

IMO That more than anything else demoralized the cast, including Naya.  Even if you take what she implied about Lea with a grain of salt, Naya pretty much spells out that the main problem was the lack of good stewardship by the producers.   

Edited by caracas1914
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camussie

camussie

(edited)

Totally agree this show was falling apart before Cory passed.  I also think, though, that the producers scapegoating their incompetence on Cory's passing and RM flat out lying that the McKinley narrative was all about a story for Finn most likely added to the tensions.

From all accounts, both before and after his death, Cory got along with most everybody on the set.  The lone exception seemed to be Ryan Murphy and that showed up all the way back in season 2 with the way they introduced Sam - as blonder and better Finn.  They backed off of that by the second half of season 2.  I will always wonder what caused that tension as supposedly Cory leading the cast to say no more tours happened at the end of season 2.  My guess is Cory was one of the earliest cast members to bristle against RM's controlling tendencies and that happened as early as the first tour.

Edited to add - without the vests and without ever leaving McKinley despite Finn wanting to prove to himself beyond his high school walls was a huge part of his story in the first 3 seasons.

Edited by camussie
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SparedTurkey

SparedTurkey

On 9/1/2016 at 5:11 PM, caracas1914 said:

one of the producers was just chilling on a diner stool and she went up to him and was like “Where’s the rest of the scene? Aren’t going to do anything about this?” and he freaked out and started yelling at her in front of everybody and was was like “I’ve been doing this job for 6 years!” And she was like “Yeah, badly.” 

This actually makes me love her a little bit - how I dream of saying this to my boss on a daily basis.

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spiritof76

spiritof76

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/09/23/ryan-murphy-remembers-glee

So nothing too different than he has said before. It is interesting that he said, "Everybody was sleeping together and breaking up." And because I'm Nosey Nancy, I want to know who everybody is? We know about Lea and Cory, which was an actual long term relationship, and we know about Naya and Mark, which was some kind of on and off thing. But who else? I just can't see picture any of the rest of them hooking up together. But Naya also referred to the cast in her book as "having the sex drive of bunnies and hopping in and out of bed more than a polygamist cult". So I guess something was going on. Sorry I'm nosey and interested in admittedly trivial stuff.

What he said about getting to close to each other does strike me as true. I could see that from the start. Those kids started on depending on him greatly, because he'd made them stars. I'm sure early on theyour didn't question much, but as they got older, more sure of themselves in the  business, they probably started to chafe under his control and he took it as a personal affront. 

I think it explains a lot about what happened between Seasons 2 and 3. That's just my take on it though.

But at the end of the day there weren't proper boundaries set between employee and boss, that's on Ryan. 

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tom87

tom87

16 minutes ago, spiritof76 said:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/09/23/ryan-murphy-remembers-glee

So nothing too different than he has said before. It is interesting that he said, "Everybody was sleeping together and breaking up." And because I'm Nosey Nancy, I want to know who everybody is? We know about Lea and Cory, which was an actual long term relationship, and we know about Naya and Mark, which was some kind of on and off thing. But who else? I just can't see picture any of the rest of them hooking up together. But Naya also referred to the cast in her book as "having the sex drive of bunnies and hopping in and out of bed more than a polygamist cult". So I guess something was going on. Sorry I'm nosey and interested in admittedly trivial stuff.

 

Hook ups?
Naya and Chord, Naya and the glee writer.

It didn't have to mean just the main cast I suppose. Hook ups could have happening with the dancers , Warblers etc.

But yeah main cast to main cast not sure either.

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spiritof76

spiritof76

True. There were a lot of people if you include the band, the dancers, extra students etc. And all that down time? Yup that makes sense. 

Still surprised Naya didn't mention her relationship with the writer in her book. I was starting to think I imagined it. I mean she told a lot of stuff in her book. A lot. I wonder if there was a reason that didn't make the cut. 

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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(edited)

Just idle speculation, but didn't Naya go around with the writer, Hogsdon, around the time of Season 3?  He continued to write episodes and even was promoted to story editor after their breakup so that could have contributed to her being sidelined.    Again she's been careful not to write too disparaging about the PTB.

As usual, Ryan Murphy reveals more than he intends; it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Ryan marginalized even talented cast because of petty, personal vendettas.   Granted many  people in charge do that, but it's still mind boggling how this cast that worked extraordinary long hours the first couple of years, including touring , was cast aside cavalierly by him.  The difference is that they weren't " stars" so the usual ass kissing and respectful delineation wasn't kept.   Once they pissed him off it was the kiss of death.  That lack of distance is squarely on him, and as usual in his typical chicken shit way he takes no responsibility for the quality of the show going downhill despite being Lord and Master.  It's almost like he wants to lump in the cast with why Glee went off rail, when other than doing their professional job on set all decisions were on RIB.

Edited by caracas1914
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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

1 hour ago, caracas1914 said:

Just idle speculation, but didn't Naya go around with the writer, Hogsdon, around the time of Season 3?  He continued to write episodes and even was promoted to story editor after their breakup so that could have contributed to her being sidelined.    Again she's been careful not to write too disparaging about the PTB.

As usual, Ryan Murphy reveals more than he intends; it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Ryan marginalized even talented cast because of petty, personal vendettas.   Granted many  people in charge do that, but it's still mind boggling how this cast that worked extraordinary long hours the first couple of years, including touring , was cast aside cavalierly by him.  The difference is that they weren't " stars" so the usual ass kissing and respectful delineation wasn't kept.   Once they pissed him off it was the kiss of death.  That lack of distance is squarely on him, and as usual in his typical chicken shit way he takes no responsibility for the quality of the show going downhill despite being Lord and Master.  It's almost like he wants to lump in the cast with why Glee went off rail, when other than doing their professional job on set all decisions were on RIB.

Yeah anytime RM says anything about Glee, I don't know, it makes me like him less than I already do.  

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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http://fyeahgleeclub.tumblr.com/

Quote

Gayboy Kurt, Everyteen by Mark Harris

Nothing ages more quickly or brutally than a piece of entertainment that was revolutionary for its moment. So it’s easy to look back at the debut of Glee and wonder what the big deal was. After all, it certainly wasn’t the first TV show to depict gay characters. But Glee was the first to put a gay kid front and center and to eschew patronizing “Look, he’s just like us!” cultural tourism. The tart-tongued Kurt Hummel, played by actor Chris Colfer (who astonishingly for TV was actually a teenager), was femme, high-voiced, fashion-obsessed, lonely, special. He wasn’t tokenistic or neutered—Kurt got to have a coming-out, a boyfriend, a sex life. He didn’t have to be “just like us”; he only had to be himself.

At its apex, the series was not on the fringes of pop culture but at its center, airing after the Super Bowl and turning Katy Perry’s “Teenage Dream” into a same-sex I-think-you’re-hot song that reached Billboard’s top ten. At least as significantly, Glee forced its largely non-gay, non-kid audience to confront the existence and the struggles of queer children in a sustained way. In that, the show accomplished something television can do better than almost any other medium—it normalized a conversation. The year after the show’s premiere, Dan Savage launched his deeply affecting and deeply effective “It Gets Better” video project. Savage understood that if one role of entertainment is to kick down a barrier, the job of activism is to make sure it never gets rebuilt.

Now a generation of queer kids who saw themselves in Glee(not to mention a generation of queer kids who didn’t) is in college arguing about gender fluidity and intersectionality. And in ten years, some of them will run for local, state, and national office. For a show that began with a bunch of high-schoolers singing “Don’t Stop Believin’,” that’s not a bad legacy.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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http://leamichele-news.tumblr.com/

Quote

It’s done. It’s going to come out in early 2017. I think everyone will love my album. It’s a lot more of the type of songs I grew up listening to, like Céline Dion and Barbra Streisand. It’s more theatrical than my first record. I think that’s the kind of music people want to hear me sing. I wrote a very personal song—“Sentimental Memories.” There’s also a beautiful song called “Love Is Alive.” That one I’m most excited about, because I’ve been through a lot. It’s important that everyone knows where I am in my life right now, which is very positive, happy and hopeful …

Lea Michele on her second album

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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Oh dear.

going all petty bitch mood:

Time for Mark to start tweeting again about the biased liberal media , to which I would respond " I'll make my decision off what I observe objectively. Not what every outlet tells me to think..". So yeah Mark, objectively you appear to be pond scum...

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ms.o

ms.o

The Dec 3rd episode of Reelz "Autopsy: The Last Hours of..." will be about Cory.

Ive watched this show several times and always learn something new since the pathologist has the full autopsy report.  This will be interesting and depressing 

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ChaChaSlide

ChaChaSlide

12 hours ago, ms.o said:

The Dec 3rd episode of Reelz "Autopsy: The Last Hours of..." will be about Cory.

Ive watched this show several times and always learn something new since the pathologist has the full autopsy report.  This will be interesting and depressing 

I don't have Reelz, so please post back what they say on here, I'm interested in knowing what they say! Or does this show have a forum on PTV?

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tom87

tom87

5 hours ago, Pink ranger said:

The concept of this show looks sensationalist and gross to be honest. They should just let the dead rest in peace. Do they get permission from the family at least? 

I doubt it.  

 

4 hours ago, Sara2009 said:

I'm not sure about this show. There's a fine line between informative and trashy.

I bet most is speculative anyway so not informational even.  

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shantown

shantown

4 hours ago, ChaChaSlide said:

Wow, Lea's a brave chick, red and revealing are two big wedding wear no-nos where I come from lol. 

I'm more surprised she's not a bridesmaid. I thought Lea and Becca were quite close.

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KatWay

KatWay

The main thing is that you're not supposed to draw more attention to yourself than the bride (see also Jaden Smith in a Batman costume at the Kimye wedding). I pride myself on having a very open and liberal circle of friends and you'd definitely get stared at with that dress at a wedding. It looks a bit more red carpet than wedding to me, but hey, maybe that was the dress code, they all look pretty fancy.

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ChaChaSlide

ChaChaSlide

(edited)

So I watched the Autopsy show. They really dragged it out 40 minutes just to say Cory died of mixed drug toxicity; he'd been drinking previously and shot up heroin, which depressed his breathing. He also said that he most likely shot up an amount he previously tolerated, but due to the stent in rehab, he no longer did. You can actually find a pdf of his autopsy report  online. In any case, I feel as if this information was made available when he passed back in 2013.

The reasons for him getting back on heroin were purely speculative; the autopsy doctor speculated he'd been using for a year before he died, it coming to a head of course when he went to rehab spring of 2013. One psychologist believed he might have been method acting for a role he had in "McCannick", an indie film in which he played a heroin addict. 

Spoiler

If I had to speculate, I would say it was a case of two many pots in the fire aka stress. There was the rocky showmance with Lea, the roller coaster that was working with RIB, and shooting two films while also filming Glee (and that would've been season 4, ill fated NY/Lima split Glee). Cory had been going full throttle since 2010, by 2012 it probably came to a head and he was just stressed completely out, and dealt with it the way he knew how.

I also don't think whatever rehab(s) he attended as an adult subscribed to treating his addiction with medication rather than talk therapy; I'm not a doctor but if I had a patient who was a drug addict by the time he hit puberty, I would definetly prescribe him long term medication to at the very least block the effects of the drugs, hopefully decreasing the cravings. Cory's brain was probably hardwired from pubescent addiction issues. For individuals like that, I doubt 12 steps is enough.

Edited by ChaChaSlide
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Casual Viewing

Casual Viewing

I haven't seen this show, but I always felt that he didn't stay in rehab long enough and wondered if it was the right facility for him.  I've also always wondered how much of his checking into rehab was really his wish versus being given an ultimatum and just agreeing without fully committing to it.  

Drugs, esp. heroin are so hard for someone to give up, and he got hooked on it at a young age.  Filming a movie in which he played a heroin addict was not the wisest decision, me thinks.

It's sad that now when I think of Cory, the first thing that comes to mind is how gaunt he looked at the end, with a twisted un-Cory smile;  like he'd been sucked dry of life. I had boycotted that season of Glee and so the photos of him came as a shock; his death a few weeks later after seeing those photos, not so much. 

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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

(edited)

Can't say I'm too surprised by this. The relationship always seemed to move really fast to me, he was barely 21 when they met and had a girlfriend he'd been with since high school. I also knew his showing up on Supergirl would be a mistake. It's rarely a good idea for married actors to work together. Though I guess they may have figured it wasn't a big deal since they met while working together.

Melissa Benoist files for divorce from Blake Jenner

Edited by truthaboutluv
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marymon

marymon

6 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Can't say I'm too surprised by this. The relationship always seemed to move really fast to me, he was barely 21 when they met and had a girlfriend he'd been with since high school. I also knew his showing up on Supergirl would be a mistake. It's rarely a good idea for married actors to work together. Though I guess they may have figured it wasn't a big deal since they met while working together.

Melissa Benoist files for divorce from Blake Jenner

I think he only did a episode or 2 last year, the problem was probably more the shows move to Vancouver.   They were probably a part a lot.   Plus he is awful young wet from one long term relationship in to  marriage by the time he was like 22?

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

Ryan is still talking about how he was friends with the Glee cast until he wasn't (with some). This time was on the podcast that Becca Tobin does with some other ladies, where he apparently said:

"I have a lot of regrets...One of the things that I really struggled with on “Glee” was—I really became very good friends with that cast at a very young age for me and for them like, we were all starting together and it was like, “Let’s put on a show, Oh my God, can you believe that they’re giving us the money to make this?” and, you know, then when you go like, you make a show in a bubble and then three months later every kid is on the cover of a magazine and it’s this huge thing and then, suddenly, there’s a little bit of elbowing each other and I wish I didn’t take it personally and say, “Well then, you’re not my friend anymore,” and blah blah blah blah blah. I did not act well at the time and it wasn’t until I had a child where I think I realized the way to be a showrunner and to work with creative people in many ways is to be a parent, you know, you have to sort of draw a line and be a father figure or a mother figure and let your people know that you love them unconditionally no matter what, that they have a safe space, and I didn’t just do it on that show, I’ve done it from the beginning. I did it on “Popular”, I did it on “American Horror Story,” but I’ve learned a lot of lessons, but I wish I could go back in that point in time and sort of maybe treat people a little easier, a little kinder, with a little bit more generosity of spirit, but it was hard for me. It was a big lesson, everything happening at once, but that’s something that I now do very specifically when I do television shows is I don’t take anything personally and I let everyone be an individual and I do try and go at them with a sort of an unconditional love like, “It’s okay, I’m going to be here no matter what, you can piss me off and that’s fine,” and not be like, “I’m going to take my ball and go home.” You know what I mean? I used to be that kind of person. But parenting does soften you in some weird way, and then you at my four-year-old and I go “Oh my God, I used to act like that.” I used to throw tantrums […] I was 38."

Edited by fakeempress
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spiritof76

spiritof76

12 hours ago, fakeempress said:

Ryan is still talking about how he was friends with the Glee cast until he wasn't (with some). This time was on the podcast that Becca Tobin does with some other ladies, where he apparently said:

"I have a lot of regrets...One of the things that I really struggled with on Glee was: I really became very good friends with that cast at a very young age for me and for them, like we were all starting together. It was like: let's put on a show! Oh my God, can you believe that they're giving us the money to make this! And you know then when you go from like you make a show in a bubble and then three months later every kid is on the cover of a magazine and it's this huge thing and then suddenly there's a little bit of elbowing each other. And I wish I didn't take it personally and say 'well then you're not my friend anymore and blablablabla'. I did not act well at that time.

I wish I could go back at that point in time and maybe treat people a little easier, a little kinder, with a little bit more generosity of spirit. It was hard for me. It was a big lesson."

Why is he trying to act like he was some new guy on the scene when Glee hit? Ryan was already an established and successful producer and show runner with a hit show. And in the past he's always framed his relationship with the cast as a father/uncle figure kind of thing. He was the adult and they weren't (even though age wise they were). Now most of the cast on Glee, they were the real newbies. And them getting caught up in the world wind I completely understand and am more forgiving of. But Ryan, was a grown, grown, grown man who'd been around the Hollywood block a time or two.

This is what happened I'm my opinion.  When Glee started he was like the fairy godfather to the cast. Everything was so new and exciting, and most of them had never been anywhere near this level of success. So I'm sure they were very compliant, very thankful, didn't make a lot of demands, didn't ask a lot of questions, didn't push back on much. And all was good. But then the show got bigger and bigger. Different characters /cast members developed their own followings, and the newbies started to grow up. They weren't maybe  being demanding, but they probably started asking more questions, pushing back on things more, not just taking Ryan's word for everything. And I think that ticked him off and hurt his feelings. And as the older, more experienced one Ryan should have been able to rise above it and understand what was,happening. Instead he got petty and started freezing people out. But this whole, "We were all just a bunch of young kids starting out!" is a bunch a bull. 

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

Above post, I hate it when Ryan talks about the experience like that as well. He can't just be honest and say he liked it when they liked him and believed everything he said and did what he wanted them to do and when that stopped, he got mad and couldn't distance himself like the adult he was and not let it interfere with the show. Because it did.

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marymon

marymon

Quote

He can't just be honest and say he liked it when they liked him

 And I wish I didn't take it personally and say 'well then you're not my friend anymore and blablablabla'. I did not act well at that time.

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

I updated Ryan's quote above with the fuller version from tumblr.

I think he's having some mea culpa moment but as spiritof76 says, he make it sounds like he was also a new kid on the block with Glee and that's why things got wrong, while his previous shows were a walk in the park in terms of relationships with the casts. But he came to Glee out of Nip/Tuck where the relationship with and among the cast wasn't exactly rosy and without recriminations. Having listened to the podcast, I think he actually means that in the previous shows he acted as he did on Glee, which he now regrets and says becoming a father in real life has forced this re-examination. As always, Ryan-speak is somewhat convoluted to decipher.

Apparently he also said:

"What I really look for is that sort of above and beyond approach to your work. Are you willing to sit there and do the time and say I’ll do that and I want to try that. What I really love is when someone talks back to me and says the opposite of what they think they’re supposed to say. Like if they read a script…And I’ve promoted women from this - ‘I don’t like this scene, I didn’t like that. I don’t think that’s right.’ I think that’s a hard thing to do to your boss sometimes…I’m looking for somebody who is going to take a risk. I don’t know how to quantify it but I like people who have a firm set of their own point of view… I love to be told 'You’re full of s***."

This seems to be a 180 from how things appeared to be on Glee. If he has really turned the corner there, good for him. But he seems to be talking here about his writers and directors, not so much actors, I think.

ETA: I found the podcast site and listened to it and it's rather interesting, particularly about Feud.

Indeed the "talk back to me" is in the context of what his current work process is and in relation to his pledge about half of his production crew and creatives to be women. Even the part about Glee (starts at 49 min.) comes across a bit better. The starting out together is more about them starting together with the show itself - he seems to view Glee as his graduation to the big league moment so that's the start he rather has in mind. 

And then, of course, he'll slip into old habits and say in passing he - not "we" as in RIB - wrote Glee (pilot).

Another tidbit is about his twitter, at 58:44

http://theladygang.com/listen/ryanmurphyladygang

Edited by fakeempress
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