Gypsy - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

Your Gypsy Topic!

[Duke2801]

I've only seen the first episode so far.  Pretty interesting.  Still not sure what Jean's "game" or angle is here.  Is she just bored with her own life and wants to see how she can manipulate these people who have OTHERS so emotionally manipulated - aka: the sad ex boyfriend and the overbearing mom.

Or does she empathize so much with her patients that she wants to enact some sort of "revenge" on the ones who have hurt them? Time will tell, I suppose!

However, here is another situation where I look at the main character and think - HOW in the heck do you have the time/energy to live this "double life" when you have a full time job, a family, etc.   See: Nurse Jackie; Don Draper

[jennylauren123]

Watched three of these last night. I think Jean is sicker than any of her patients. Low self-esteem and little regard for others. Narcissist? Naomi Watts is fun to watch because she's an excellent actress AND because, unlike Nicole Kidman, her face moves and registers human emotions and expressions. I am really enjoying this one and look forward to finding out more. I would say more, but I don't want to include spoilers. I hope some of you will join me and let me know what you think. Thanks Duke!

[jennylauren123]

OK, I didn't realize that he is played by Billy Crudup. Don't know the actor well, but his hair is too black! I think he's creepy, especially with the assistant. I think we will find out that he has many more issues than is apparent in the first three episodes--at least I am hoping so. He seems to get pretty angry at times, though Jean deserves it. His face changes into anger pretty quickly! 

[nameless slob]

Quote

Low self-esteem and little regard for others

I watched so far the first six episodes, and I actually think she is very empathetic and cares a lot about her patients and their lives, more than she should. I can grasp her reasoning behind reaching out to her patient's closest relations. She tries to help Claire and Emily, backhanded as it is. She tries to help Sam, Allison. The only thing that I think runs out of her control is when reaching out to Sidney, she gets tangled in her web. And in reality I think her sessions with Sam suffer because of that. Plus, I don't grasp the "Sidney effect". She does nothing for me, from the first scene of her singing, maybe the actress lacks "it".

I do think she is a bad therapist, even though with good intentions. Because she doesn't seem to be able to do her work, help the patients, without the interference of those third parties. She is unable to make them grasp what she is trying to show them.

I wanna see more of her relationship with her mother.

[ciprus]

On 30 juni 2017 at 8:16 PM, Duke2801 said:

I've only seen the first episode so far.  Pretty interesting.  Still not sure what Jean's "game" or angle is here.  Is she just bored with her own life and wants to see how she can manipulate these people who have OTHERS so emotionally manipulated - aka: the sad ex boyfriend and the overbearing mom.

Or does she empathize so much with her patients that she wants to enact some sort of "revenge" on the ones who have hurt them? Time will tell, I suppose!

However, here is another situation where I look at the main character and think - HOW in the heck do you have the time/energy to live this "double life" when you have a full time job, a family, etc.   See: Nurse Jackie; Don Draper

I've seen the whole season now and I think I'm even more confused as to Jean's motivations now than in the beginning.

At first I thought there were some kind of weird sense of wanting to help her patients, now I'm not so sure. Why did she start to push Sam and Sidney towards each other again by the end? And the relationship with the patient who just got out of a long stretch of treatment seems downright sinister. The guy and the boxing club turned out to be her brother, so Jean has been Diane for a lot longer than the stretch of the show, it seems.

I'm really going to need another season to make sense of this!

[fountain]

I watched them all too.  I spent a lot of time trying to figure which persona is real and maybe neither are.  The way Jean/Diane used real life events and twisted them in her lies was interesting.  It allowed for her to cover so many potential issues that could arise.

 

It was very unusual and well done...but I still have so many questions that are unanswered!

[Duke2801]

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 1:46 PM, ciprus said:

I've seen the whole season now and I think I'm even more confused as to Jean's motivations now than in the beginning.

At first I thought there were some kind of weird sense of wanting to help her patients, now I'm not so sure. Why did she start to push Sam and Sidney towards each other again by the end? And the relationship with the patient who just got out of a long stretch of treatment seems downright sinister. The guy and the boxing club turned out to be her brother, so Jean has been Diane for a lot longer than the stretch of the show, it seems.

I'm really going to need another season to make sense of this!

 

My take on why she was pushing Sam and Sidney towards each other again was this: once he felt he had broken free of her and was happy-ish/content with his ex, he did not need therapy. But Jean NEEDS Sam to give her the "inside scoop" (poor choice of words - but you know what I mean hopefully) that helps HER (Jean) to control/mind-fuck Sydney.

Therefore, she pushes S & S back together so that Sam will break up with Emily and continue to get mind-fucked by Sydney. And, therefore, need to continue seeing Jean on a regular basis.

It's a pretty messed-up vicious circle.  And yes, we are meant to know by the end of this series that Jean has been "Diane" for quite some time.  

As for my initial question about who Jean is and what her "game" is -- yeah, I am still confused too.  With the young drug addict and, to some degree, Brenda Vaccaro and her daughter, she does seem to want to help -- albeit in a VERY inappropriate way!  But with Sydney, she came off as obsessive and almost psychotic.  

I thought maybe from that conversation she was having with her colleagues about "psychopaths" meant us to infer that Jean is, indeed, one herself.  But I am not entirely sure. 

[Valny]

I have just one more ep to go which I'll be watching tonight.  I'm just waiting for the shit to hit the fan in the finale. Or maybe not?   Since I haven't seen ep 10 yet, I'm wondering if they'll be wrapping things up or leave things hanging. ...not sure if this was planned on being a one season series or not.  I've liked what I've seen so far, but I do get a little bored with some parts, like the Brenda Vaccaro's scenes. And some of Sam's stuff.  But that may just be my ADD kicking in.  :)    I know the actress who plays Alison was British but I just found out the actress who plays Alex is a Brit too. Damn, these people do American accents brilliantly.     

I was a little thrown when we first see the group of psychologists sitting down and talking about their patients.  I just thought it was odd.

[Jade Foxx]

Binged this over the weekend. Enjoyed it, but what a disturbing story. Halfway through I felt Jean was merely a well meaning therapist with horrible and unethical boundary issues - but now it seems she has long standing mental issues, may suffer from a personality disorder, and has wrought this kind of havoc on her husband/family before? 

Aren't hubby and mom complicit in allowing her to practice CBT,due to her obsessive and manipulative behaviors she OBVS can't control?

What are her dear old daddy issues?

She's one sick puppy. 

This series reminds me of another movie - can't put my finger on it. 

Well done. 

11 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

 

My take on why she was pushing Sam and Sidney towards each other again was this: once he felt he had broken free of her and was happy-ish/content with his ex, he did not need therapy. But Jean NEEDS Sam to give her the "inside scoop" (poor choice of words - but you know what I mean hopefully) that helps HER (Jean) to control/mind-fuck Sydney.

Therefore, she pushes S & S back together so that Sam will break up with Emily and continue to get mind-fucked by Sydney. And, therefore, need to continue seeing Jean on a regular basis.

It's a pretty messed-up vicious circle.  And yes, we are meant to know by the end of this series that Jean has been "Diane" for quite some time.  

As for my initial question about who Jean is and what her "game" is -- yeah, I am still confused too.  With the young drug addict and, to some degree, Brenda Vaccaro and her daughter, she does seem to want to help -- albeit in a VERY inappropriate way!  But with Sydney, she came off as obsessive and almost psychotic.  

I thought maybe from that conversation she was having with her colleagues about "psychopaths" meant us to infer that Jean is, indeed, one herself.  But I am not entirely sure. 

Yes, I think she manipulates her patients for her own needs and compulsions, they are just prey. She's fucking with their lives under the guise of helping them.  Seems to show no remorse, until shit starta affecting her personally. Sounds sociopath-y to me. 

Also, the way she thinks she's outsmarting everyone else....

[Jade Foxx]

He's a schmuck and a fool! 

Although Billy Crudup can do no wrong since Jesus' Son. 

[NorthstarATL]

I thought there were some pretty interesting ideas at play here, but there was no pay-off. Even assuming a second season some of the plot threads should have been resolved by the end of ten episodes. Chekhov's gun not only did NOT go off, but was seemingly forgotten! Sydney and Sam speaking of killing in separate scenes with J/D seemed to be foreshadowing, especially since one had the gun and one had the ammo, or was that symbolic of their sexual relationship? Sydney posting the incriminating photo online and Sam not SEEING it and outing Jean made no sense. And Jean, who was already nervously "seeing" Tom following her and Sydney turns around and allows the addict who always goes back to him to stay in her "Diane" apartment? And we're supposed to believe she graduated from college? The woman should not only not be practicing, but she has enough supervision that they should be on to her by now.

[DianeDobbler]

Northstar, I began watching this show and was intrigued, but most of the reviews came to your conclusion, so I'm not certain if I'm going to continue. It's got great atmosphere and a lead character who is very well-acted, whom I don't really like (even if she weren't screwed up, I probably wouldn't like her), but I do like Naomi Watts' acting. I think Jean Holloway is really fucked up. I get the premise being that we're ALL fucked up, we all have secrets, and I know that.  I just wish I knew this would pay off but too many reviews believe it doesn't.

[Real4real]

   Just finished watching the series yesterday and I think that in some way, Jean is  trying to work out the troubled relationships in her own life by manipulating her patients.  Her relationship with her mother is played out through Claire & Rebecca, her relationship with Michael through Sam & Sydney, her relationship with her daughter through Allison.  I think it gives her a sense of power or control which she doesn't feel in her own life--unfortunately, you can't control other people, thus things begin to spiral out of control with Sydney and Allison and even MIchael in dangerous ways.  She definitely seemed to get a rush whenever she would almost get caught!  

[Nozycat]

I am just up to ep 5 and intrigued although it always annoys me when fictional therapists are so dodgy.  What annoys me more however is not being able to read most of the texts or what she wrote for Sam to do when they are showing us as something obviously important - it's just too small and faint for me most of the time.

Question - how does Jean know when Rebecca is at the hair salon?

[NorthstarATL]

16 hours ago, Nozycat said:

Question - how does Jean know when Rebecca is at the hair salon?

Her mother told her in one of the sessions. I still am unsure as to whether Jean/Diane knew Sydney worked at the Rabbit Hole or whether THAT was coincidence, as her arrival at the coffee place is in the first scene in the series, but having seen her behavior throughout, it's likely Sam told her and she went there to check out who Sydney was and to ascertain why Sam was so smitten.

[Nozycat]

Ah okay thanks, I missed that.

So just finished watching it.  I think Jean is super messed up and just like she has no empathy for the people she messes with I had no empathy for her when she was crying and upset as they haven't shown me why I should and she really f.cks people over with seemingly no remorse - sociopath indeed.  I also didn't see Sidney's supposed 'allure', she just seemed to be posturing to me, or like a little girl playing at being mysterious and adventurous but not really being it.  And I gather the actress is English but her accent sounded so fake to me.  It all took me out of her scenes.   I thought Naomi was great in the role.  And I dislike her character greatly.  Wish we had gotten more resolution or that we get a second series that will do that.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Nozycat

[DoubleUTeeEff]

On 7/14/2017 at 3:17 PM, Real4real said:

 Just finished watching the series yesterday and I think that in some way, Jean is  trying to work out the troubled relationships in her own life by manipulating her patients.

Oh, this is so fascinating to me because I would have said that it was the other way around! Jean uses what she learns from her own personal relationships so that she can manipulate her patients more effectively.

Episodes 1-9 I thought that Jean could possibly really care about her patients but completely lacks boundaries. Once we got to Episode 10, I thought it was clear that she doesn't care about them, she just enjoys manipulating them. I thought that was the pay off. To me, it remained a mystery what Jean's motivations were until we got to the last episode. Especially when we saw her push Sam back to Sidney. 

I read a book about a woman who had supposedly been diagnosed as a sociopath. Jean reminded me of her because she claimed that she loved manipulating people. She had a whole rationalization about how the people she manipulated really liked the drama so she really wasn't doing anything unethical. There was a complete lack of understanding of empathic people there.

I agree that there really wasn't anything very intriguing or interesting about Sidney. But after we found out what Jean was really up to, I don't think it matters. We don't need a reason why Jean was so attracted to her because Jean only cares how she can use Sidney. As for Sam, I think it was some naivete plus a bit of Stockholm Syndrome.

[Nozycat]

6 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Oh, this is so fascinating to me because I would have said that it was the other way around! Jean uses what she learns from her own personal relationships so that she can manipulate her patients more effectively.

Episodes 1-9 I thought that Jean could possibly really care about her patients but completely lacks boundaries. Once we got to Episode 10, I thought it was clear that she doesn't care about them, she just enjoys manipulating them. I thought that was the pay off. To me, it remained a mystery what Jean's motivations were until we got to the last episode. Especially when we saw her push Sam back to Sidney. 

I read a book about a woman who had supposedly been diagnosed as a sociopath. Jean reminded me of her because she claimed that she loved manipulating people. She had a whole rationalization about how the people she manipulated really liked the drama so she really wasn't doing anything unethical. There was a complete lack of understanding of empathic people there.

I agree that there really wasn't anything very intriguing or interesting about Sidney. But after we found out what Jean was really up to, I don't think it matters. We don't need a reason why Jean was so attracted to her because Jean only cares how she can use Sidney. As for Sam, I think it was some naivete plus a bit of Stockholm Syndrome.

Yes, totally agree with all of this.

[Chaos Theory]

I guess I am the only one who watched this. It was weird but I enjoyed it.  I like this kind of dark Psychosexual drama.  Plus Naomi Watts was great in it.     I liked the way her character manipulates everyone in her life and then panics when someone calls her on it.  Yes a lot of it was kind of on the nose but I don't think in a bad way.  I definitely wouldn't mind a second season. 

[JennyExiled]

I just started watching. I'm only a couple of episodes in, but I definitely think Jean is a danger to herself, her family and maybe her patients most of all. It could be that I've just been in therapy too long (with functional therapists) but if my therapist started acting the way Jean does, I would definitely cut and run and seek out someone new. Her relationship with her patients seems so weird to me and I can't believe the others in her practice aren't picking up on it more, even just from what little she's sharing in their debriefs. Of course, I guess there wouldn't be a show if they nipped her unethical behavior in the bud. I'm definitely hooked and in for the rest of the series! 

[JennyExiled]

On 7/2/2017 at 7:10 AM, jennylauren123 said:

OK, I didn't realize that he is played by Billy Crudup.

I didn't either! I didn't recognize him at all until I noticed his name in the credits. He's definitely changed a lot from his Almost Famous and Without Limits days. I guess you can't really count The Watchmen since he was mostly blue for that. 

[LilaFowler]

I binged on this show and became totally engrossed.

Jean is one sick, sick puppy. I find her relationship with Michael to be fascinating and I'd love to know more about her upbringing and what happened with her former patient. I can't believe her mistress never reverse image searched her on google. That'd be the first thing I'd do if I felt someone gave a fake name.

I am so sad that it was cancelled and we'll never get the answers.

[Tvtimebomb]

Bummed it is canceled.  I hope Netflix will rethink canceling so many new shows.  I'm sure glad NBC didn't cancel Seinfeld after it's first dismal season and let them improve the show.

[millennium]

You know things are bad when the transgender kid is the most well-adjusted character on the show.

I liked this series for its slow, building drama, and the increasing sense of ickiness you get from Jean.   I phoned Netflix last night and told them of my disappointment and frustration upon learning Gypsy was canceled.    We can only assume it was canceled due to low viewership because Netflix has not publicly stated any reason, even though it stands out as the quickest cancellation in Netflix's history.    I feel if they couldn't attract enough viewers it is not the show's fault -- they released it in the summer, a traditionally slower time on the internet in general, and they didn't promote it very much.

As Tvtimebomb noted above, many, many series that we now consider television classics never would have stood a chance if they were treated the way Gypsy was.

Sidney was annoying.    Her "allure" seemed to rely entirely upon a gauzy camera filter and weirdo lighting.   

Billy Crudup isn't aging well.   I'll always see him as Russell Hammond in "Almost Famous" (a role he portrayed perfectly).  When he jumped into the pool with Alexis, I heard a faint echo of  "I'm on drugs!"

As someone who once lived in Fairfield County, Connecticut, I had to laugh at how easily Jean comes and goes between Darien and New York City.   The train ride to or from NYC takes about an hour (each way), and that's not counting whether you have to wait for a departing train.

Jean's madness really didn't come to the fore  until episode 10 when we learned that the dangerous Melissa Saugraves, who was about to be released from Bellevue and who posed such a threat in the past that Jean had to take out a restraining order against her, was just another one of Jean's victims.   Someone Jean toyed with and then had committed when Melissa became inconvenient to have around.

I thought this series did a good job of portraying what it's like to have two opposing forces warring against each other inside one person.   

Pet peeve:  Why do so many shows go out of their way to make smoking look sexy and decadent and erotic?   I have never smoked but when I was a teen I made the unforgettable mistake of dating someone who did, and it was just fucking disgusting.  

Edited September 29, 2017 by millennium

[Mindthinkr]

This is not my profession (mental health) but she seems to be stalking her clients lives. It’s unclear to me if she’s doing it to help them (by understanding their players better) or to live somewhat vicariously through them. I see many areas where she could potentially stumble. The drug use, the dalliance with the ex-girlfriend of one of her clients, her marriage (which has been on shaky ground before) and trying to figure out what’s going on with her daughter Dolly; who seems to be having some gender identification issues at a (to me) alarming young age. 

[Mindthinkr]

Well Allison hit a little too close to home with her question of what would you do if your daughter was a fvck up. I was yelling at the screen for Jean’s character to show her some affection. She did eventually with the blanket and yes, I understand that it’s not a therapist’s job to solve their problems but Jean is so immersed in her own struggles that she’s not being such an effective helper. Compassion is sometimes necessary to help a patient break boundaries (as long as you aren’t enabling them). 

Oh boy. Are we seeing Lexi being set up as the “other” woman? I hate the trope that if a woman doesn’t worship her man (copious attention or what have you) that he automatically feels free to stray. Too predictable  

Why is Jean not concentrating more on her daughter unless that’s a small sideline storyline? 

Jean seems to almost border on being a danger seeker. Going to the club. Still getting up with the rock and roll girl. 

[Mindthinkr]

I see Jean changing dramatically but slowly. 

I love seeing Brenda Vacarro in the role of the patient and the letter that she wrote to Jean about feeling as though she was the Cowardly Lion. I felt terrible for her when she went to deliver some boots to her daughter only to find out that she had moved six weeks prior. She may be needy and a crossed of boundaries but it seems a little harsh for a child to move and not let her parent know. We only get the characters point of view. I wish I knew her daughters. 

Interesting seeing Blythe Dinner As Jean's Mom. 

The birthday party was almost ruined by Jean’s outburst. I’m hoping that her daughter didn’t witness it. There’s a lot going on these days about bathrooms and who gets to use which one. I just find it strange that a nine year old would be facing these things at such a young age. 

[Mindthinkr]

I’m glad that she was there for Allison. I also see the beginnings of something between Jean’s husband and Lexi. Hmmm...not quite sure what to meal of the ending. 

Spoiler

Did she have another apt that nobody knows about?

[Mindthinkr]

I’m halfway through this and after reading all of your comments and the fact that it’s canceled tells me that there will never be any payoff to finishing it. Or answers. 

[Mama No Life]

Just watched this. 

Excellent acting.  Billy Crudup is still amazing.  

Writing was erratic at best. ha. No pun intended.

Pissed they didn't wrap it up somehow.

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m really late to this.  Just binged it.  It’s a rather infuriating series.  I was hoping the viewer would get more of a payoff in the end, but it’s just not going to happen.  It’s so dark, I see why another season might not work.  A professional who is as dangerous as Jean is sickening.  It’s as disturbing as torturing puppies, to see a professional inflict pain on their patients.  A Bernie Madoff payback would have been fitting.  We really need safeguards to protect the public from people like her.  
 

And, her mother was quite the enabler.  Providing Jean with the means to carry out her abuse.  
 

When Jean talked to her daughter’s therapist, it seemed he had been told quite a bit by the daughter and it wasn’t good. 
 

So, the clipping in the box confirms that Jean did burn down the house.  
 

Was that Allison lying in the backseat of her ex boyfriend’s car at the end?  Was she dead or high!  
 

Definitely, Borderline Personality Disorder, plus other stuff.  Whew….glad it’s over! Lol