Season 6 Discussion

[Evagirl]

I would like for Kelly and Gil to explain how they happened to give a name like "Michael Christian" to a girl.  I can sort of understand one of the names being ambiguous, but BOTH names?!  Out of 19 children, she is the only female with two masculine names.  I don't get it.  I realize you can name your children whatever you want, but this is so out of the ordinary for the Bates.  Why would you stick a name like Michael Christian Bates on your daughter?

[flyingdi]

5 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

I would like for Kelly and Gil to explain how they happened to give a name like "Michael Christian" to a girl.  I can sort of understand one of the names being ambiguous, but BOTH names?!  Out of 19 children, she is the only female with two masculine names.  I don't get it.  I realize you can name your children whatever you want, but this is so out of the ordinary for the Bates.  Why would you stick a name like Michael Christian Bates on your daughter?

I don't really understand most of the names in the Bates family.  It seems the parents just went out of their way to make sure nobody had the same names as their kids.  Warden?  Lawson?  Addallee?

[SongbirdHollow]

She did explain. In a nutshell she named her the biblical Michal, then decided that was not a great role model. They could change the spelling without cost, saying it was a typo, they added the e. Don't know about the Christian tho. 

[Evagirl]

5 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

She did explain. In a nutshell she named her the biblical Michal, then decided that was not a great role model. They could change the spelling without cost, saying it was a typo, they added the e. Don't know about the Christian tho. 

Now this is weird because if it's the "Michal" I'm thinking about, it's the woman who married King David and was not a kind person.  The daughter of Saul, she was standing in the window watching King David return home after recapturing the Ark of the Covenant.  King David was so overwhelmed with joy that he danced all the way through town, even dancing out of his robe.  Michal watching him "despises him in her heart" (is what the Bible says).   And because of this God closed her womb and she died childless.  

As well versed in scripture as Gil is, I know he must not have named his daughter after THAT Michal.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Evagirl
typo, clarification

[SongbirdHollow]

2 hours ago, Evagirl said:

Now this is weird because if it's the "Michal" I'm thinking about, it's the woman who married King David and was not a kind person.  The daughter of Saul, she was standing in the window watching King David return home after recapturing the Ark of the Covenant.  King David was so overwhelmed with joy that he danced all the way through town, even dancing out of his robe.  Michal watching him "despises him in her heart" (is what the Bible says).   And because of this God closed her womb and she died childless.  

As well versed in scripture as Gil is, I know he must not have his daughter after THAT Michal.

Yeah, I think that was exactly the problem. ?

[Summer]

On September 3, 2017 at 11:46 AM, flyingdi said:

 

I just wish they would decide on a name for Michael.  Erin used Michael,  Michaella, Aunt Mikey and something else all in the same paragraph.  No idea why it drives me crazy but it does.

 

Agreed.  When I first saw the name I assumed it was pronounced "Muh-kayla" but then I heard her introduce herself on time as "Michael-La" and I thought that was a weird way to pronounce it.  It drives me crazy, too, how they all use different names for her.  

[jennblevins]

The closed captioning once identified her as Myka, like the character on Warehouse 13!

[cereality]

Am I the only one who thinks the Bates parents aren't thrilled to death about the Evan/Carlin courtship? Sure Gil always does the -- I'm not going to give another daughter away, you can wait 10 more yrs -- thing in jest, and he did that. And yet it seems like both him and Kelly went on about -- she's young, you're young; she may end up being your wife or not; if it doesn't work, we want you to walk away as friends and with no "regrets" -- i.e. still pure. It seemed like a WHOLE lot more warnings than we've ever seen before and in stark contrast to the other sons in law. Kelly basically begged Brandon to marry Michaela -- asking not so subtle questions about when they'd court; how long they needed to court; how quick could he finish school; and why did he need to wait SOOO long after school ended to marry; it was embarrassing. She's been similar with Bobby -- pushing them to finish school asap and/or advising Tori that it's not necessary to finish school. As for young -- she's 19-ish which I believe is around the same age as Alyssa and maybe Erin when they started courting. Maybe they're realizing that Carlin is beyond immature and this is a middle school crush. Sure it may materialize into marriage, but even now -- whenever Kelly or any family member talks (like Erin - who set them up) about why Evan/Carlin seem great together, they come up with nothing reasons. Kelly tonight actually said -- they like the same music and going the same places. Um -- that makes a 22 yr old whose full time career appears to be "ministry" via singing in a family fundie band to be marriage material? If you like the same music -- be friends, share music -- don't rush to the altar next year!? Maybe Gil is realizing that the string of loser sons in law is starting and he needs to slow that down bc he has already had to create a job for Bobby in his "church" and will have to dole out minimal salary to him in order for him to be able to afford a wife and Gil may not be in the position to do that again so soon with Evan. At least the next one coming down the pike is a plumber . . . .

[Autumn0516]

So, Josie stayed home during the family vacation. No way she stayed home alone, right? 

[cereality]

8 hours ago, Autumn0516 said:

So, Josie stayed home during the family vacation. No way she stayed home alone, right? 

With Kelton on the scene and living locally? I'm thinking no. Were Alyssa and John there - I don't recall seeing them and at one point before rafting Zach goes "well at least Lawson and Nathan will be around to raise the kids from our THREE families if something happens" -- i.e. Zach/Whit; Chad/Erin; and Gil/Kelly -- no reference to Alyssa and John's kids so I think they weren't there. I feel like I've seen recent Josie pics with John and Alyssa in Fl. so I wonder if she went down to stay with them during the vacation. Wonder why that would be and wonder why John/Alyssa didn't come -- though I think they probably cannot tolerate the family for a week in the woods so it's now easier to say -- sorry our kids are bad sleepers or whatever -- to get out of it.

[ozziemom]

2 hours ago, cereality said:

With Kelton on the scene and living locally? I'm thinking no. Were Alyssa and John there - I don't recall seeing them and at one point before rafting Zach goes "well at least Lawson and Nathan will be around to raise the kids from our THREE families if something happens" -- i.e. Zach/Whit; Chad/Erin; and Gil/Kelly -- no reference to Alyssa and John's kids so I think they weren't there. I feel like I've seen recent Josie pics with John and Alyssa in Fl. so I wonder if she went down to stay with them during the vacation. Wonder why that would be and wonder why John/Alyssa didn't come -- though I think they probably cannot tolerate the family for a week in the woods so it's now easier to say -- sorry our kids are bad sleepers or whatever -- to get out of it.

I think Kelly mentioned that Alyssa and John couldn't come due to prior commitments, i.e. They have real jobs. Plus I agree they don't seem to love the big loud crowd of family. 

[BitterApple]

I haven't seen the episodes, but I remember how pushy Kelly was with Brandon. If she's going in the complete opposite direction with Evan, then I agree it's a safe bet to say she's not enthused about the courtship.

[Sew Sumi]

Nah, after his typical hemming and hawing, Gil "greenlighted" the courtship and also gave permission for Bobby to propose. 

[lb60]

Engagement

[SongbirdHollow]

Couldn't wait til October I see!

[Sew Sumi]

Tori needs 3 months to prep for the winter break wedding. October would cut it too close. Especially since she's admitted that she is delegating planning to her sisters (said so on the FB live last night...yes, I found it and watched it).

[ozziemom]

What happened to waiting to get married until after graduation?

[Kiss my mutt]

Carlin wants to get married because Tori is. I don't think she really cares who. I would have hated my mom to have badgered any intendeds to marry me. Smacks of desperation and one should be careful about what they ask for. Let things proceed organically and don't violate the "Prime Directive". 

Carlin needs to slow her roll and stop acting like a 12 year old fangirl. How old is she anyway?

and Erin's matchmaking? Who other than Tori and Bobby did she set up. Is she really expecting this idyllic life where her husband has to preach for her dad's church of 19 congregant She?

[sATL]

I wish I understood why the girls see-the 1st-guy-marry-fast and the  next 3 available boys (Lawson, Nathan, Trace) are just sitting on a couch with no mention of a girl. Yes, Nathan got his heart broken, but that was at least a year ago - time to get back out there.

And no push/nudge by Gil/Kelly/sisters to encourage them to "find" someone - even if they do it jokingly. Don't they think their sons (brothers) are a "prize" for some lucky lady?

the girls are really moving down the line if Josie is "friends" with some guy. surely we won't have to wait for the next set of boys (Jackson, Warden, Isaiah) to find a woman to have a bates male wedding ..

Edited September 23, 2017 by sATL

[sATL]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 9:33 AM, Autumn0516 said:

So, Josie stayed home during the family vacation. No way she stayed home alone, right? 

I wouldn't have. I would be spooked out of my mind. out in the dark country in a house that normally has 20+ people parading though at any given time?

[flyingdi]

25 minutes ago, sATL said:

I wish I understood why the girls see-the 1st-guy-marry-fast and the  next 3 available boys (Lawson, Nathan, Trace) are just sitting on a couch with no mention of a girl. Yes, Nathan got his heart broken, but that was at least a year ago - time to get back out there.

And no push/nudge by Gil/Kelly/sisters to encourage them to "find" someone - even if they do it jokingly. Don't they think their sons (brothers) are a "prize" for some lucky lady?

the girls are really moving down the line if Josie is "friends" with some guy. surely we won't have to wait for the next set of boys (Jackson, Warden, Isaiah) to find a woman to have a bates male wedding ..

I thought Trace brought a girlfriend(girl friend) on the ski trip?  Campbell or something?

[sATL]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 11:25 PM, BitterApple said:

I haven't seen the episodes, but I remember how pushy Kelly was with Brandon. If she's going in the complete opposite direction with Evan, then I agree it's a safe bet to say she's not enthused about the courtship.

Michella was approaching that "age" where the pickings of husband were getting slimmer in their circle. Plus Michella spent years pinning after Brandon, when he didn't know she really existed. Kelly was probably thinking if not Brandon then who?

[sATL]

speaking of John/Alyssa in FL - I wonder how things went for them during Hurricane Irma ? Did they retreat to TN? Did Gil & sons come down and help clear trees? I guess that would be an episode next season.

I thought one of reasons Nathan was flying was to help with missions - did he fly to one of the nearby areas to help drop off supplies ? I think both hurricanes (Harvey & Irma) bypassed the MS coast.

[BitterApple]

51 minutes ago, sATL said:

Michella was approaching that "age" where the pickings of husband were getting slimmer in their circle. Plus Michella spent years pinning after Brandon, when he didn't know she really existed. Kelly was probably thinking if not Brandon then who?

That's true. It seems like if you're a woman over 25 and you're not wed, it's pretty much over for you in that cult. Case in point: Jana Duggar. I wonder if that's why Carlin and Tori are pushing to get married so young even though both their guys are "in the ministry" and have no discernable sources of income. I'm starting to think guys like Chad, John and Brandon were flukes and "aimless drifters" are the norm for this crowd. 

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, sATL said:

I wish I understood why the girls see-the 1st-guy-marry-fast and the  next 3 available boys (Lawson, Nathan, Trace) are just sitting on a couch with no mention of a girl. Yes, Nathan got his heart broken, but that was at least a year ago - time to get back out there.

And no push/nudge by Gil/Kelly/sisters to encourage them to "find" someone - even if they do it jokingly. Don't they think their sons (brothers) are a "prize" for some lucky lady?

the girls are really moving down the line if Josie is "friends" with some guy. surely we won't have to wait for the next set of boys (Jackson, Warden, Isaiah) to find a woman to have a bates male wedding ..

Yes, the girls have to marry the first guy and very fast. Meanwhile Zach and Nathan both had courtships that ended the first one wasn't the "one" for them. I wonder if any of the girls wonder about that. Or notice how upset Zach and Nathan were at the ending of their courtships. Their hearts weren't protected at all. 

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 6:18 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

Carlin wants to get married because Tori is. I don't think she really cares who. I would have hated my mom to have badgered any intendeds to marry me. Smacks of desperation and one should be careful about what they ask for. Let things proceed organically and don't violate the "Prime Directive". 

Carlin needs to slow her roll and stop acting like a 12 year old fangirl. How old is she anyway?

and Erin's matchmaking? Who other than Tori and Bobby did she set up. Is she really expecting this idyllic life where her husband has to preach for her dad's church of 19 congregant She?

I have a co-worker that tells a hilarious story about when her now-husband first met her family.  He was in the military, and Peggy hadn't had a serious man in her life.  Her father was so concerned this man find their home, he sent Peggy's little brother to stand on the front porch, wildly waving the American flag.  He didn't want to take any chances. 

[Kiss my mutt]

3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I have a co-worker that tells a hilarious story about when her now-husband first met her family.  He was in the military, and Peggy hadn't had a serious man in her life.  Her father was so concerned this man find their home, he sent Peggy's little brother to stand on the front porch, wildly waving the American flag.  He didn't want to take any chances. 

That is hilarious!  Glad it worked out for them too.  What did he think of the flag waving? They must have a great laugh about it now!

[RedheadZombie]

49 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

That is hilarious!  Glad it worked out for them too.  What did he think of the flag waving? They must have a great laugh about it now!

She didn't say what her husband thought, but she had a great sense of humor about it. 

[IndianPaintbrush]

On 9/23/2017 at 4:25 PM, sATL said:

I wish I understood why the girls see-the 1st-guy-marry-fast and the  next 3 available boys (Lawson, Nathan, Trace) are just sitting on a couch with no mention of a girl. Yes, Nathan got his heart broken, but that was at least a year ago - time to get back out there.

And no push/nudge by Gil/Kelly/sisters to encourage them to "find" someone - even if they do it jokingly. Don't they think their sons (brothers) are a "prize" for some lucky lady?

the girls are really moving down the line if Josie is "friends" with some guy. surely we won't have to wait for the next set of boys (Jackson, Warden, Isaiah) to find a woman to have a bates male wedding ..

I think there's two things at work here. One is that boys are expected to have a job, a place to live and the ability to support a family as soon as they get married. I don't know how much money Lawson makes with his music, but he doesn't look ready to settle down and support a family at all. And while this family allows girls a little more freedom than other fundies, they still can't leave the nest until they get married. Their worth is measured by weddings and babies.

[cereality]

On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 6:25 PM, sATL said:

I wish I understood why the girls see-the 1st-guy-marry-fast and the  next 3 available boys (Lawson, Nathan, Trace) are just sitting on a couch with no mention of a girl. Yes, Nathan got his heart broken, but that was at least a year ago - time to get back out there.

And no push/nudge by Gil/Kelly/sisters to encourage them to "find" someone - even if they do it jokingly. Don't they think their sons (brothers) are a "prize" for some lucky lady?

the girls are really moving down the line if Josie is "friends" with some guy. surely we won't have to wait for the next set of boys (Jackson, Warden, Isaiah) to find a woman to have a bates male wedding ..

I think there is a girl that Trace is dating/talking to. In an earlier episode Erin and one of the sisters in college (Tori?) both said that Trace has become pretty outgoing and a ladies man on campus and they expect that he'll marry before his older brothers. Erin also said that she thinks Lawson will marry around age 30 - and her sisters were aghast.

Reality is while they are more "modern" than other fundie families, they are still fundies and have been taught since birth that self worth for a woman comes from being a wife and mother. This isn't true for males; sure they should want to spread their seed and raise kids for Christ, but if they don't -- they won't be thought of as lowly as women who don't do that. To the women the greatest horror in life would be if they didn't marry or have kids. So in order to prevent this, they lock it up ASAP. I also think this particular group of sisters -- Tori; Carlin; Josie -- is REALLY savvy bc they've seen older sisters go thru this just a few yrs ago -- when they themselves were age 14+ and understood what was going on. I think they probably noticed that finding an attractive fundie guy WITH a decent job -- like Chad or John -- is a total crap shoot, as he has all the fundie girls in the world interested in him and he can marry whatever girl he happens to notice at some random valentines day dance or mission or something. I think they REALLY understood that if you're pushing 24 in that cult and not married, desperation sets in to lock it down with anyone -- bc they likely remember Michaela's tearful pining and praying for Brandon and how Brandon had to be convinced by his sisters to marry Michaela and then Kelly pretty much had to beg him to put a ring on it. As you "age" to the ripe old age of 24-25, fundie pickings get slimmer esp. since fundie males - even if they are pushing 27-30 will marry girls 4-5 yrs younger; Chad and John are both 5 yrs older than their wives. So given that there aren't many fundie men who are 30 and single, if you're 27, you're out of luck anyway since they'll be looking for a 24-25 yr old max.

I think Tori/Carlin/Josie were VERY aware of these dynamics -- and decided that once they were done "high school," they were on the search to make sure they locked it down by 20-22. So off they went to find college classmates who happened to have roommates who had best friends in Florida that were also fundie or were waiters at an event and happened to be ok with patrons asking for their numbers etc. I think the 3 of them were also savvy enough to realize that if it didn't happen with a fundie male by age 22-23, they'd consider going "fundie lite" for dating purposes and looking into the southern Baptist local dating pool; yet given that this is small town Tenn,., they knew those guys marry young too so they'd have to be looking over there asap by age 24 if a fundie husband didn't show up. At least Josie got herself a plumber, who will be able to provide. Tori and Carlin -- well at least they locked it down and will have husbands and kids, but it's going to be a lifetime of "working" for Gil alternating with working for various churches, doing missions etc. since neither of their men seem to have a secular job/career.

[sATL]

changing topic a little - what financially happens to the young fundie wife, with umpteen kids, unexpectedly , and sadly, becomes a widow?

If carrying health ins is optional or minimal, what about life insurance - let alone the policy coverage and premiums. And its not like  the hubbies work jobs with a plethora of benefits.

Edited September 27, 2017 by sATL

[cereality]

52 minutes ago, sATL said:

changing topic a little - what financially happens to the young fundie wife, with umpteen kids, unexpectedly , and sadly, becomes a widow?

If carrying health ins is optional or minimal, what about life insurance - let alone the policy coverage and premiums. And its like  the hubbies work jobs with a plethora of benefits.

I imagine the same thing that happened to women back in the 1940s -- when they didn't have beyond a HS education and didn't earn bc they raised the kids. The lucky ones had a family that was at least lower middle class/working class enough that they could take their daughter and her 7 kids in.  The ones who didn't -- suddenly found themselves with a giant family in a rental apt, mom suddenly having to work (often secretarial back then) and older kids raising young ones and hopefully some help from family/church/food stamps. To me though the Bates don't seem as dumb as other totally uneducated, unexposed fundie families.

[Princess Chloe]

On 6/11/2017 at 9:51 AM, cereality said:

 but being the sister in law to Tabitha who didn't marry until [gasp] 31-32 and then had to settle for a rapist

I think I missed something here....RAPIST? Would you mind enlightening me please? I am definitely new to this board.....

[Sew Sumi]

Many years ago, Tabby's hubby anal-raped his passed out female roommate. He was on the registry until pardoned by TN's governor last year. He's a janitor at Clown College, which always enrages me. 

He was never convicted by a jury, but instead pled guilty. 

[BitterApple]

17 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Many years ago, Tabby's hubby anal-raped his passed out female roommate. He was on the registry until pardoned by TN's governor last year. He's a janitor at Clown College, which always enrages me. 

He was never convicted by a jury, but instead pled guilty. 

Wait a minute, was he working at Clown while actively on the Sex Offender Registry?! 

[Absolom]

I think it may be worse than janitor.  I read he was on the security payroll.

[Sew Sumi]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Wait a minute, was he working at Clown while actively on the Sex Offender Registry?! 

It seems so. And I hadn't heard he was in security. That's even worse. 

[cereality]

So if the husband works at Crown, that must mean Tabitha lives in town. Must be nice for Chad for to have some family in town now, though I wonder if he allows his new brother in law around his children given his history??

And now Erin and Chad are expecting #3. Disappointing. After all the problems Erin has had -- they can't just be happy with 2 kids? They'll really keep rolling the dice and having a kid every year? What was all the big talk with the doctor in that case when he said -- oh this is #2 of 19 and she was quick to clarify it's #2 of 2 implying that they were or will use some kind of BC. I'm guessing they're using nothing. Kid #2 was an accident. Once you've had an accident once and the wife's health is in play, most people will do something more reliable for BC.

[cereality]

Watched the season finale in rerun last night bc I didn't catch it the first time. Seeing Bobby and Tori babysitting the younger kids/grandkids -- like 6-7 kids total was a flash into the future of what their lives will look like -- bc I imagine by next yr, child #1 will be here already. Would've made me want to run screaming at 22 -- not to mention most guys -- yet when Tori said "this is what'll it'll be like someday," Bobby was thrilled and said he hoped so -- not at all terrified. So I guess they are made for each other -- 2 fundies with no marketable skills, where the husband will provide by working for his father in law -- but raring to go to produce a child rarely. While Bobby has an attractive face, he already has that tubby fundie belly setting in -- so visible when he was in shorts and t shirt talking to Gil re engagement. And similarly, when Evan pulls Gil and Kelly aside to talk about courting, he's got his harness on -- completely highlighting the shape of everything in his crotch. I'm sure Carlin is excited about that -- but do your mother and father in law really need to see an outline of those appendages??

[BitterApple]

48 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

if a woman then did you have permission from your father or husband to work outside the home. 

Good Lord, are we in the United States of America or Saudi Arabia? 

[pinkelephant3]

After watching some episodes I saw when Carlin went to Evans house and they sing the song together. Carlin says it was written for her but it talks about getting your heart broken and loving again...who broke her heart?

[answerphone]

Have we ever heard from Katie Bates, the next child born after Josie?

She's sitting on the couch with her sisters tonight, but she must be very shy. 

She probably can't squeeze in a word in such a talkative family. (Carlin's loud enough to make up for Katie's lack of conversation)?

[riverblue22]

19 hours ago, answerphone said:

Have we ever heard from Katie Bates, the next child born after Josie?

She's sitting on the couch with her sisters tonight, but she must be very shy. 

She probably can't squeeze in a word in such a talkative family. (Carlin's loud enough to make up for Katie's lack of conversation)?

Before you know it Josie and Carlin will be married, and Katie will be sitting on the couch with Addalee and Ellie.