Predictions for the FINAL Season

[Umbelina]

Patty Duke was on Broadway at 13, and won an Oscar for the Miracle Worker at 16.  She definitely had talent.  If she, or a number of other very talented actresses were "Paige" they would DEFINITELY be talking "spin off."

I'm not trying to rag on Holly, but she's not a child anymore, she's been an adult for 2 1/2 years now.  In the right role, with the right director, and the right writers, she may be fine in the future.

She did show up and say her lines here, but she was, at best, average in this role.  She's far too one-note, in voice, in body or facial expressions, in RE acting to things.  Maybe she will learn and go on to be a great actress, but she's not naturally gifted in that area.  She could learn to be if that's what she decides to do.

[SusanSunflower]

Patty Duke was -- I agree -- an extraordinary talent, but she wasn't the only one.  I was struck by McNichol because she played Buddy in Family (a prestige hour-long weekly) with a blockbuster cast (next to whom, Kristi held her own as the somewhat troubled/thoughtful adolescent). 

I do blame the writers for giving Holly so little to work with -- a hobby, a ballet past, a love of baseball -- anything!!  A video clip of an interview with Holly was depressing for me in how much she (holly, IRL)  resembled Paige.  I think teenagers and most young adults aren't in fact very interesting because they are still in formation and "might" end up being someone else entirely and I "assumed" that this 3 year jump was supposed to allow Paige to make a substantial leap (into being a more formed, more interesting, more adult character) ... 

The "in the media" thread seems a bit dormant ... is there some "other audience" that is loving this season so far??? 

[Umbelina]

Holy would be good as the somewhat oblivious woman in a sit com, she's probably more suited to comedy, especially in the role of the "straight-man" with comedically talented other actors/actresses.  I see her being better at light comedy or Rom-Com than drama.

[SlovakPrincess]

Looking back at the whole series, I’m starting to wonder if the tragedy of Paige is that she’s kind of a not-very-bright sheep.  Is that the show’s point with her?  She’s really a born follower which is why she’s sleepwalking into this path that’s been laid out for her (and at which she’ll be terrible)?  

So ... probably she’s going to fuck something up that gets her or one of her parents killed or arrested?

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Looking back at the whole series, I’m starting to wonder if the tragedy of Paige is that she’s kind of a not-very-bright sheep.  Is that the show’s point with her?  She’s really a born follower which is why she’s sleepwalking into this path that’s been laid out for her (and at which she’ll be terrible)?  

So ... probably she’s going to fuck something up that gets her or one of her parents killed or arrested?

It may happen, we've been talking about that for years really.

It's just SO predictable that I never thought the writers would go there.  Now though, I'm not so sure.  I lost so much confidence in them last year, it's hard to recover my formerly quite positive feelings.

In spite of a few stretches of "how possible is this or that really?" in other seasons, I was more than happy to go along for the ride and not nitpick the spy stuff, because I trusted those guys that I would enjoy their ride.  Now?  I've got hopes for a good final season, but my trust is gone.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Umbelina

[SlovakPrincess]

I just see no other way this ends.  The show’s tone has gotten steadily darker, so I’m bracing for a bleak ending.  

Due credit to the writers, this is a particularly hard show to wrap up anyway.  But I feel like they kinda ran the Paige plot down the wrong alley and now any other options are limited.  

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

I do blame the writers for giving Holly so little to work with -- a hobby, a ballet past, a love of baseball -- anything!! 

I think the role was particularly hard, but mostly in the way that all the roles on the show are. It depends on the actor to bring a lot to it because everyone's internal. (Paige less so than most, actually.) Her role was mostly about her relationship to her parents, who were very complicated people, and Russian spies to boot. I think it's a vicious cycle. It feels like Paige has little to do because she's doing little. But I honestly think there's more that could have been done. Paige's evolution from 13-19 was easily as complex as Sally Draper's from 13-16 on that show, imo. Like a lot of people said she was amazing in the reveal scene in Stingers but I thought that was a bit flat too. (She was much better in the lead up to it than the reveal part, imo.)

I think it could definitely be argued that the type of stuff Sally was going through was easier to make comes across in a more interesting way, but I think plenty of actors might have found a lot of Paige's scenes positively juicy to work with. I think her scenes felt repetitive in part because her performance was repetitive. She rarely if ever, imo, brought more to the scene than what was written. Sometimes even less, in fact. I was often more aware of just "Paige is worried again" rather than getting the sense that Paige was working through a particular thought, if that makes sense. I rarely got the sense she was thinking any specific thing.

Of course, it also didn't help that they culled so many interesting characters from the cast in season 4, leaving us with pretty much only Paige. And not to overpraise Keidrich Sellati based on barely anything, but he sometimes offers even more of an unfortunate contrast. He'll come on for three lines and has so much more going on.

Edited April 18, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Pink-n-Green]

The only thought I have about the series finale is please, please don't go the Sopranos route.  Whether we like these characters or not, we've invested a good amount of time in this show and we deserve to know what happens with them!

[BingeyKohan]

In spite of everything I’m still fond of Elizabeth. I’ve decided Renee will turn out to be nefarious in some way so P & E will see enough there for it to be plausible to pin all their activity as ‘illegals’ on her so they can truly get out. The tragedy of the end will be that Paige doesn’t actually want out so she stays in. Eventually Claudia and Paige freeze Elizabeth out and close ranks.

[Juliegirlj]

For some reason I think something major will happen and Phillip will take the fall and be killed. Elizabeth will be left, alone, to live an average American life. Phillip just wants a normal life tooooo much- sadly he won’t get it, but ironically Elizabeth will. 

[SusanSunflower]

I was just trying to figure out how Paige becomes the "new Jared - family anihilator" ending up with Claudia playing Kate's role .... First she kills Phillip for betraying Elizabeth, then Henry because he's a witness and then Elizabeth because she's not grateful or her "faith" has slipped or something ...   in the final scene, there's Paige with her red beret back lit standing in front of the old Soviet flag which has not yet been replaced ... 

[SunnyBeBe]

The possible scenarios are endless, but, I'm now wondering if we are going to get a let down in nothing really happening.  It would be odd if Claudia brings E a message that the Centre has discontinued all assignments for E and P.  They are to remain as average looking citizens, to protect Paige's cover. But, they will no longer work for the Centre. And that Paige will stop missions, but, train for certain white collar information gathering on a limited basis until her college graduation. This in preparation for working with the FBI, CIA, major corporation, etc. 

And Renee turns out to be just a wife with no other motive. 

And Oleg returns home, no worse off.  

I can't say that I'd be too upset with it. 

[SusanSunflower]

if this show wraps up before the summit with no resolution as to Elizabeth's special assignment .... unthinkable. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Oh, I have another option.  What if it is confirmed to Henry that he will NOT be returning to his school for senior year, due to his parents financial situation and he doesn't take it well.  He snaps and kills his parents and Paige, since she's a witness.  Hmmmm....oh, I think that was already done in an earlier season. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

They are to remain as average looking citizens, to protect Paige's cover.

LOL. Within a week Paige blows her own cover 18 times.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, but, maybe, she's all they got. lol  From what we have seen on this show, there have been other families like the Jennings.  I think that one family was murdered right? Are there more?  Is Page the lone hope for the USSR in their espionage future?  I hope Claudia can put in some overtime. 

[Erin9]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

LOL. Within a week Paige blows her own cover 18 times.

Lol. She’s so clueless. She would. 

Deciding she knows more than Philip is so typical of her....and so stupid. 

I’m waiting for Paige’s arrogance, know it all attitude,  and naïveté to get someone killed. (Or caught.)   That’s where she’s headed, really, whether it actually goes there or not. 

I think that person should be her given her listening skills, but that’s unlikely. Might be fitting if it was Elizabeth given this was what she wanted sooo badly,  and the results of her poor execution. But, again, not really sure that’s likely. 

[SunnyBeBe]

59 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Lol. She’s so clueless. She would. 

Deciding she knows more than Philip is so typical of her....and so stupid. 

I’m waiting for Paige’s arrogance, know it all attitude,  and naïveté to get someone killed. (Or caught.)   That’s where she’s headed, really, whether it actually goes there or not. 

I think that person should be her given her listening skills, but that’s unlikely. Might be fitting if it was Elizabeth given this was what she wanted sooo badly,  and the results of her poor execution. But, again, not really sure that’s likely. 

I know this sounds really mean, but, if Paige's careless behavior, due to her her refusing to obey rules, causes someone to get axed, I hope it's her. 

[misstwpherecool]

What happened to pastor Tim and the cult/church? With the time jump they could/should bring him back after spending a few years in a remote location. He could either flip Paige or just turn in the Jennings. Hopefully the killing of the Teacups in front of their child will wake people up.

[hellmouse]

I think it would be too fanciful for the show, but also possible, if it turns out that Renee is a deep undercover Soviet spy. And even after Stan somehow discovers that Philip & Elizabeth & Paige are spies, and he and Aderholt celebrate their success in "catching the bad guys", there is still another spy working the FBI. Like we see Renee down in the basement listening to a tape. Maybe Stan believes Henry that he was 100% unaware of his family's actions (maybe Philip even pleads with Stan to take care of Henry?), and takes him in, with Renee's full support. Then Renee, now working in personnel at the FBI or even CIA, is able to guide Henry's path into a position of access in government and then help others to manipulate him for info.. With Stan & Henry completely unaware of how they are being used.

IDK, it's kind of ridiculous. But it's not entirely implausible, given this show. Obviously the Russians didn't give up spying even after the end of the USSR. We could have a tragic ending for P&E (and P?) but still the hints of continued spying. 

On the other hand, why would anyone in gov't trust Stan's opinion of Henry (or Renee) after all the ways he's been connected with Russians over the years? Maybe Renee is really just a red herring for the audience.

[qtpye]

On 4/19/2018 at 9:49 AM, BingeyKohan said:

In spite of everything I’m still fond of Elizabeth. I’ve decided Renee will turn out to be nefarious in some way so P & E will see enough there for it to be plausible to pin all their activity as ‘illegals’ on her so they can truly get out. The tragedy of the end will be that Paige doesn’t actually want out so she stays in. Eventually Claudia and Paige freeze Elizabeth out and close ranks.

For some reason now I am picturing Elizabeth and Renee having a giant epic Tarantino like battles like Uma Thurman and Vivica Fox from Kill Bill. Paige will walk in and they both will stop and E will say "Don't worry about this honey, just go to your room".

[misstwpherecool]

On 4/27/2018 at 9:13 AM, hellmouse said:

I think it would be too fanciful for the show, but also possible, if it turns out that Renee is a deep undercover Soviet spy. And even after Stan somehow discovers that Philip & Elizabeth & Paige are spies, and he and Aderholt celebrate their success in "catching the bad guys", there is still another spy working the FBI. Like we see Renee down in the basement listening to a tape. Maybe Stan believes Henry that he was 100% unaware of his family's actions (maybe Philip even pleads with Stan to take care of Henry?), and takes him in, with Renee's full support. Then Renee, now working in personnel at the FBI or even CIA, is able to guide Henry's path into a position of access in government and then help others to manipulate him for info.. With Stan & Henry completely unaware of how they are being used.

IDK, it's kind of ridiculous. But it's not entirely implausible, given this show. Obviously the Russians didn't give up spying even after the end of the USSR. We could have a tragic ending for P&E (and P?) but still the hints of continued spying. 

On the other hand, why would anyone in gov't trust Stan's opinion of Henry (or Renee) after all the ways he's been connected with Russians over the years? Maybe Renee is really just a red herring for the audience.

I'm wondering if the writers kept Renee as their wild card not even knowing themselves going into this year although I thought I saw where the show basically stuck to it's original story/plans.

That being said I'm wondering if Renee is part of a parallel US agency investigation of Stan because we saw that in the first couple of seasons. Or another agency suspects the Jennings and Renee comes back when Stan is gone to take pics, planting bugs at their house etc. I think Red Herring but I can't help but think a significant wild card.

I'm trying to think but did the FBI office ever think Stan and Martha had an affair and perhaps her defection triggered an investigation?

Speaking of defectors I still think we're going to see a major defection or two. I'm thinking Tatiana from the rezidentura  because she was butt kissing butt describing her meeting with Oleg and taking shots at his father almost over selling her loyalty. 

I think/hope there will be surprise defections and moles revealed which will have as much impact as who dies.

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, misstwpherecool said:

That being said I'm wondering if Renee is part of a parallel US agency investigation of Stan because we saw that in the first couple of seasons. Or another agency suspects the Jennings and Renee comes back when Stan is gone to take pics, planting bugs at their house etc. I think Red Herring but I can't help but think a significant wild card.

When did we see anything like a US agency making a woman marry a guy to investigate him? What is there even to investigate? Everyone knows Stan's past crimes.

[Ellaria]

On 4/28/2018 at 12:33 PM, misstwpherecool said:

I'm wondering if the writers kept Renee as their wild card not even knowing themselves going into this year although I thought I saw where the show basically stuck to it's original story/plans.

That being said I'm wondering if Renee is part of a parallel US agency investigation of Stan because we saw that in the first couple of seasons. Or another agency suspects the Jennings and Renee comes back when Stan is gone to take pics, planting bugs at their house etc. I think Red Herring but I can't help but think a significant wild card...

...Speaking of defectors I still think we're going to see a major defection or two. I'm thinking Tatiana from the rezidentura  because she was butt kissing butt describing her meeting with Oleg and taking shots at his father almost over selling her loyalty. 

Lots of good questions here and, since this is a predictions thread, all comments that that lead to further discussion should be welcome.

I wouldn't refer to Renee as "a wild card" but I agree that the writers *may* not have had a definitive plan for her. Nonetheless, I don't believe that she is an agent for any organization. At worst, she is Stan's slightly pushy wife who will get some sort of administrative position at the FBI and stumble onto the sketches of P&E and see what Stan hasn't seen for 3+ years. At best, she is just Stan's loving wife and we are being trolled by the writers.

Aderholt appears to be pulling Stan back in to counterintelligence work and that - IMO - is what will cause Stan to have an epiphany about his neighbors. I just hope that this doesn't happen in the final episode. Since authenticity of relationships is a key theme of this show, I don't want to be rushed thru his reaction and response. This will be a major reckoning for him, considering that it has been set-up since the pilot.

Philip's current character arc has been set-up from the start as well. Watching these two friends confront the truth about each other will be fascinating.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[misstwpherecool]

3 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Lots of good questions here and, since this is a predictions thread, all comment that that lead to further discussion should be welcome.

I wouldn't refer to Renee as "a wild card" but I agree that the writers *may* not have had a definitive plan for her. Nonetheless, I don't believe that she is an agent for any organization. At worst, she is Stan's slightly pushy wife who will get some sort of administrative position at the FBI and stumble onto the sketches of P&E and see what Stan hasn't seen for 3+ years. At best, she is just Stan's loving wife and we are being trolled by the writers.

Aderholt appears to be pulling Stan back in to counterintelligence work and that - IMO - is what will cause Stan to have an epiphany about his neighbors. I just hope that this doesn't happen in the final episode. Since authenticity of relationships is a key theme of this show, I don't want to be rushed thru his reaction and response. This will be a major reckoning for him, considering that it has been set-up since the pilot.

Philip's current character arc has been set-up from the start as well. Watching these two friends confront the truth about each other will be fascinating.

Excellent point about Renee being there for the ah-ha moment. And it would ironic if the FBI 'couple' take down the KGB couple.

I still wonder though if a previous case or act of Stan's could bounce back on him.

I also have always wondered what happened to the ramifications of Lance was it. The Navy Seal officer who made more progress in one year with a personal investigation than an entire division of the FBI. Did he take notes, leave just in case evidence for a relative or colleague to find. Was he ever reported missing.

[Novel8]

As this show is entering its final season, I really can't see how its going to end, to satisfy us the audience. Like the TV show "The Soprano's" ending, is how i see it for this show...Remember the disappointment it garnered? I personally can't accept that the two main characters, not be either arrested or killed, even if Phillip, is showing signs of resignation., like that saying goes 'too little, too late" ....lets not forget, he killed, just as many as Lizabeth .   The one redeeming quality, to me, is if he kills his wife, which seems unlikely.         

[hellmouse]

In terms of how the ending will satisfy us, the audience, I agree that it's almost impossible. But I can say that for myself, I want two things.

I predict that before the end, Philip and Elizabeth will come back to each other and even articulate to each other that their relationship and marriage is something they both treasure.  It will be poignant and powerful and NOT ENOUGH for all of us.

I predict that Stan will find out about Philip and Elizabeth being spies and he will be devastated on a personal level and humiliated on a professional level. I don't know if we'll get a conversation between him and Philip but I think we might. I hope we do. I feel like we have to.

Honestly, if we get those two scenarios, I will be satisfied even if everything else is terrible (although I don't think it will be). I really really want those two scenarios to happen. I think they've been set up since the very first episode as something that must happen at the show's end. 

If we don't get those two scenarios, or if they each last less than a full segment between commercials then I will be very unhappy and sulky! Like Paige after an argument, lol.

Edited April 29, 2018 by hellmouse

[Kathemy]

It would be impossible for the show to end without Philip and Stan getting to have The Talk.

That's all I really know.

[Anela]

On 4/10/2018 at 6:56 PM, Ellaria Sand said:

And that's why - IMO - she will get neither by the end of the show. She will not die and she will not return to the USSR (or anywhere) as a hero. Elizabeth will be left in a limbo of her own doing. What is her life like 10 years into the future? Philip is most likely dead, Paige and Henry are grown and on their own, and she is living alone in a small apartment somewhere wondering what went wrong.

Not a popular opinion around here but I think that the writing for Stan has been inconsistent. It is almost as if they ran out of storyline for him around Season 3 so they parked him and gave him EST classes and a few girlfriends. Frankly, I have little interest in anything Stan does right now. I'm just waiting for that "other shoe" to drop and see his reaction when he finds out that his beer-drinking buddy is KGB.

That is going to be so sad. By the end of Breaking Bad, I was rooting for Hank, but I hated him at first. Stan, I didn't mind, until he cheated on his wife. I think the person who mentioned his being trained to act a certain way, leaving him unable to just function in a normal life, was right. I'm also thinking of those of us who can be extremely awkward socially, but pick up on things all the time, because we're used to looking for trouble (I'm not explaining myself correctly, I'm so tired - but people with anxiety can pick up things sooner, at times). 

On 4/15/2018 at 2:18 PM, Umbelina said:

The more I think about my prediction above, the more I think it will happen.

Elizabeth and Philip both die.  Paige is there, possibly her inexperience and ineptitude the cause of that.

Music montage of Paige silently screaming, Stan pulling her off the bloodied bodies, the telling of Henry, the future big moments of the USSR plays out in the the montage mixed with Paige memories of her mom and dad, graduations, the FBI searching the family home.  USSR falls.

Will they do something cheesy like then show a flash Henry or Paige in some sensitive job in the future?

Which music will they pick?

 

I'm not sure that either of them will die. I'm not really good with predictions anymore, though. I can't see Elizabeth letting anyone in her family take the fall for anything that she's done. I can only see her taking the pill if she's ordered to, and if she thinks her being gone will protect her family. I think those people predicting her giving it to the woman with cancer, are correct. 

I wonder if we'll still get a surprise with Henry, but I guess if the KGB were secretly meeting with him, and setting him up for a life in their service, they would have made sure that his school fees were paid. 

I don't mind Holly Taylor, and haven't had the same reactions to Paige, as others, until this year, but I can't envision a spin-off, unless they want to take it to the WB. Where spies can be cute college students, not the best spies (by a long shot), but still survive. I don't think she's a good enough actress (right now) to carry a show with the same tone as The Americans, but Alexis Bledel wasn't the best actress when she was younger, and look at her now. She's been lauded for her work in The Handmaid's Tale.

I can hardly remember most 80's music until it pops up on the radio or a TV show, but this one comes to mind:

[Anela]

On 4/17/2018 at 8:05 PM, SlovakPrincess said:

I just see no other way this ends.  The show’s tone has gotten steadily darker, so I’m bracing for a bleak ending.  

Due credit to the writers, this is a particularly hard show to wrap up anyway.  But I feel like they kinda ran the Paige plot down the wrong alley and now any other options are limited.  

Yeah. I think it would have been better if she'd gone off to school, because she couldn't get past the truth about her parents. I can see her wanting to know more about her real ancestry/country in the sense that she has been, but not as quickly as she ended up getting into it all. 

I've just remembered Paige hitting that guy with the beer bottle, to get her brother away from him. Her hitting that guy the other night, wasn't the first time. 

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, Anela said:

I've just remembered Paige hitting that guy with the beer bottle, to get her brother away from him. Her hitting that guy the other night, wasn't the first time. 

Paige did not hit the guy with the beer bottle. Henry did.

[methodwriter85]

Quote

I don't mean to knock on Holly Taylor either. I think she's done as good a job as could be done with the material she's been given. I can't think of how anyone could convincingly sell the Teenage Spy nonsense she's been handed this year any better than she's done. It's simply a bad, unpersuasive turn for that character. 

I feel like Holly would be have been fine on something like Degrassi, or a teen sitcom running on Disney or Nick.

Maybe things might have been different if Paige had been given more to play than just her weird little Jesus plot, and was treated as anything more than a plot point, or maybe not. Sometimes you luck out with child actors, sometimes you don't.

[Umbelina]

44 minutes ago, Anela said:

Yeah. I think it would have been better if she'd gone off to school, because she couldn't get past the truth about her parents. I can see her wanting to know more about her real ancestry/country in the sense that she has been, but not as quickly as she ended up getting into it all. 

I've just remembered Paige hitting that guy with the beer bottle, to get her brother away from him. Her hitting that guy the other night, wasn't the first time. 

 

32 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Paige did not hit the guy with the beer bottle. Henry did.

Henry was so good, as a character, as an actor, and yes, Paige got them into a mess, and couldn't gather two brain cells together enough to get them out of it, or even to save Henry by telling him to "RUN!"

Henry saved her ass that time, and Elizabeth saved her ass by killing that sailor.

[misstwpherecool]

Not so much a prediction as what I would like to see beside the FBI catching or foiling the spies/Jennings is justice for the innocent people killed or threatened. I still remember the security guard  from season one in which he was shot in the head by E and she put a cloth over the bullet hole like she was doing him a favor. Those are the people I want to see justice served for. Weren't the mid to late 80s the peak of the first generation pop culture talk show like Donhue or Geraldo- I think it would be fitting for family going on their show for any information on their unsolved murder. On that note maybe it's something less trivial like Paige's bar fight that does them in.

[Erin9]

I’ve been watching season 4,  just switched to S1. 

Interesting conversation between P and E in The Clock, where they’re worried about getting caught. She says Henry is adaptable and like Philip. I still think that is the case. He’s definite still more like Philip. Maybe we’ll see how adaptable he is, but I lean towards yes. Mostly I just hope we get some time spent on his reactions to who his parents are. Surely that won’t be skipped over. And- will they tell him or will he find out some other way? And will Stan play a role? 

In that episode Elizabeth also says Paige is delicate and fragile somehow. I know Elizabeth now sees some of herself in Paige in how she embraces causes, but I wonder about the delicate/fragile part. Compared to her parents- that still holds. She’s trying to be tougher, not sure she really is though. 

Elizabeth also carried a gun because she didn’t want to get taken alive. Interesting given where we are now in the show. And the cyanide pill. Not that I necessarily see Elizabeth taking it. 

I’m not sure any of this really matters now in terms of endgame predictions, but it’s certainly timely. Lol 

The one thing I feel fairly certain about is they won’t be rotting in American prisons. Anything but that. Well that and some form of happily ever after for the 4 of them. 

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

In that episode Elizabeth also says Paige is delicate and fragile somehow. I know Elizabeth now sees some of herself in Paige in how she embraces causes, but I wonder about the delicate/fragile part. Compared to her parents- that still holds. She’s trying to be tougher, not sure she really is though. 

I actually tend to think of that line a lot because I think Elizabeth was unconsciously or not seeing herself in Paige there too. That's why she thinks it's so important for her to be strong. She doesn't see herself as fragile but she fears it enough that being strong is a huge need for her. Paige I think feels and has always felt the same way. She's embraced her mother's method of strength but it's really limited in its effectiveness for both of them. Elizabeth is brittle when she's focused on being strong. When she's softer, like when she's happy with Philip, she's a stronger person all around.

13 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Elizabeth also carried a gun because she didn’t want to get taken alive. Interesting given where we are now in the show. And the cyanide pill. Not that I necessarily see Elizabeth taking it. 

That's one of the scenes I think of when I think I can't imagine Elizabeth dying. She's just rehearsed it too much as her glorious end. There's this scene with the gun, her imagining leaving the kids with Philip in The Colonel, she gets shot in that ep too, then there's the time she thinks she's dying from the bioweapon. I really think she sees dying this way as the solution to everything--she gets to be a hero, stop being afraid of surrender because she proved herself, and also make up for any wrongs she's doing/has done.

[Erin9]

That’s an interesting interpretation of Paige and Elizabeth. I like it. Elizabeth is also so focused on being strong that she doesn’t know when to stop. Part of that is her devotion to the Cause. Part of it is probably a desire not to be seen as weak or fragile. 

I think if Elizabeth dies it won’t be for the reason she’s prepared for- ie The Cause. But I think it’s entirely possible she dies for other reasons. 

Philip meanwhile is clearly prepared to die for what he thinks is right.  Both he and Oleg are. For their country, world and family. Things sure look dire for them. More so by the episode. I pretty much hate Tatiana for throwing Oleg to the wolves- twice. He hurt her career. She could help cost him his life.

I wonder about Stan. The personal and professional humiliation of living next to and being friends with spies should be pretty bad. It seems to me his career is done. Not to mention what this means to him as a person. Gaad’s career was done. 

Paige and Henry are such wildcards. What does Henry do with the truth? Short and long term? And Paige? What will the end mean for her? No matter how this ends, life as they have known it will be done. 

[Anela]

I wonder if Elizabeth will kill Stan.

I thought that his wife was a Russian spy, because I couldn't see them bringing on a known actress like her, just to be the girlfriend/wife. That's what she ended up amounting to in another show, though. They killed her character there (literally and figuratively). 

[Umbelina]

Elizabeth may try to kill Stan, but if she does, I think Philip jumps in the way and takes the bullet, or the knife.

I do think it's all going to come down to Paige idiotically giving them away, and sadly, I think Renee will have some part of it all as well.  They wouldn't be giving Paige so many complete airhead scenes if she doesn't mess up in a big way.

However, that preview for next week has me wondering....

Edited April 30, 2018 by Umbelina

[BingeyKohan]

I’m starting to think Claudia is playing Elizabeth, and she may be running her ‘secret’ mission rather than knowing next to nothing about it. I could see the outcome having something to do with Elizabeth finding out but having to operate around Claudia as if she doesn’t know, so that even going to the safe house she’s in peril. Perhaps Philip clues her in so in a way he becomes E’s ‘handler’ for the home stretch. I’m not sure how Paige would figure into that though. 

[Erin9]

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

I’m starting to think Claudia is playing Elizabeth, and she may be running her ‘secret’ mission rather than knowing next to nothing about it. I could see the outcome having something to do with Elizabeth finding out but having to operate around Claudia as if she doesn’t know, so that even going to the safe house she’s in peril. Perhaps Philip clues her in so in a way he becomes E’s ‘handler’ for the home stretch. I’m not sure how Paige would figure into that though. 

Interesting theory. 

Elizabeth and Claudia are getting along so well these days. They started out with a lot of hate/mistrust. I think they finally bonded over being True Believers/hardliners in a way Philip isn’t. 

What would be interesting is if somehow they wind up on opposite sides in the end or mistrusting each other. They’d come full circle.

Clsudua is being so nice these days. There has to be something coming with her other than hand holding for Paige and listening to Elizabeth. 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Erin9 said:

What would be interesting is if somehow they wind up on opposite sides in the end or mistrusting each other. They’d come full circle.

 

I've found myself wondering if Claudia will try to take out Philip and he takes her out instead. Though maybe I'm just thinking of Margo Martindale on Justified...

[Erin9]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I've found myself wondering if Claudia will try to take out Philip and he takes her out instead. Though maybe I'm just thinking of Margo Martindale on Justified...

Claudia is pretty ruthless. I’d be surprised if we didn’t see that side of her resurface again. She’s been entirely too nice this season for it to last to the bitter end. 

Philip is certainly a possibility. If she finds out what he’s up to....yeah, I could see it. 

[sistermagpie]

12 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Philip is certainly a possibility. If she finds out what he’s up to....yeah, I could see it. 

I don't think she'd hesitate to take him out for a second. I don't even really get how she feels about him. She must look down on him for quitting, certainly. But she started out the series hating him for no reason and tried to get rid of him, then seemed to be more okay with him because Elizabeth liked him. But they've never really given them an arc.

Many people think of Elizabeth and Claudia as being the ones that didn't get along but that always seemed more obviously about Claudia just coming on too strong at first in her wanting to be allied with Elizabeth. Even when Elizabeth decided they should get rid of her she was angry in the moment and Philip just said, "I've never liked her." He still doesn't really seem to like her, but Elizabeth trusts her, it seems to me.

[Erin9]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't think she'd hesitate to take him out for a second. I don't even really get how she feels about him. She must look down on him for quitting, certainly. But she started out the series hating him for no reason and tried to get rid of him, then seemed to be more okay with him because Elizabeth liked him. But they've never really given them an arc.

Many people think of Elizabeth and Claudia as being the ones that didn't get along but that always seemed more obviously about Claudia just coming on too strong at first in her wanting to be allied with Elizabeth. Even when Elizabeth decided they should get rid of her she was angry in the moment and Philip just said, "I've never liked her." He still doesn't really seem to like her, but Elizabeth trusts her, it seems to me.

She probably knew Elizabeth had informed on him and what she’s said.  Knew he “liked” America too much. Knew he wasn’t the idealist/ blindly loyal that she and elizabeth are. Probably knew he might just influence Elizabeth in the wrong direction- and he may still. I can’t quite remember S1 well enough to say for sure though. 

I think she at least maybe came to realize he wasn’t a traitor. She might see things differently now- though i’d argue his decisions have been a combination of what he thinks is right/right direction for USSR/world relations. 

[sistermagpie]

43 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

I think she at least maybe came to realize he wasn’t a traitor. She might see things differently now- though i’d argue his decisions have been a combination of what he thinks is right/right direction for USSR/world relations. 

You know, I think her turnaround may have been in The Colonel when Philip saved her life. A lot of what she seems to be trying to tell/show Elizabeth about him during that season is that he's not there *for her*. It's not totally explicit, but it seems like she's almost implying that as a man he's a natural dog and not capable of love the way women are--while at the same time, of course, not actually seeming to value romance anyway. She breaks them up by telling Elizabeth he slept with Irina rather than, say, ever bringing up anything about his loyalty to the USSR even though Elizabeth would seemingly be more vulnerable to that. 

But then in The Colonel she seems surprised that he runs off to save her. I felt like maybe that was her turning point, when she saw that however she thought Philip was playing Elizabeth, he did actually care about her. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

Claudia is another "good soldier" like Elizabeth, and she's been through much worse.

She would kill Philip in a heartbeat if she found out what he told Kimmy about staying in Greece.

Claudia MAY find that out, especially if Kimmy tells her dad.

Spoiler is just a guess from the next preview only:

Spoiler

Maybe that's what brings everything down.  Kimmy tells her dad, they bug sweep everything, get more drawings (and Kimmy knows him up close and personal, the FBI/CIA won't put any credence in the hair.)  That could start the entire ball rolling for the FBI to round up Russian undercover operations in the USA.

[Bannon]

I do think the writers are just going to have Liz keep killin' right to the final episode, with maybe one week off from the slaughtertrain. I think in the final or next to final episode, she'll murder a significant character. Right now, I'm leaning towards Renee!

On the other hand, I could see Liz whacking Kimmy as early as this week! I think the writers have made a terrible choice in writing Liz this way, but that's we have now.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Bannon

[Cardie]

I think Philip will at some point defect to Stan and make a deal to save his children. This may come after Elizabeth has taken that pill. Philip ends up somewhere like Enid, Oklahoma--hey, line dancing--cut off from hi8s family forever.

[Kathemy]

Another thing: I can't see Philip surviving the series.

I'll bet Elizabeth does. Fuzzy on the fate of Paige; if the show wants to bring the big hammer down, she's toast.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Kathemy