The Family Stone (2005) or, Meredith Did Nothing Wrong, You Jerks!!!

[Ubiquitous]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 9:15 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

https://nationalpost.com/entertainment/movies/why-the-family-stone-is-the-most-under-appreciated-christmas-gem-of-all-time

This was great - Sarah Jessica Parker Answers Almost Every Question We Have About The Family Stone

https://www.vulture.com/2018/12/sarah-jessica-parker-the-family-stone-interview-diane-keaton.html

Whut? Did these people watch the same movie as me?

[Nordly Beaumont]

After Meredith handed out the presents and everyone sat there like dumbasses staring at her - I love the way she gives them the "oh for chrissakes!" look as she tells them to "OPEN THEM" - at least she got that moment. She can't even win when she's handing out presents!

[Ms Blue Jay]

I started out disliking this movie, but now I have to watch it every holiday season to feel whole again.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 2/16/2019 at 7:00 PM, andromeda331 said:

I'm shocked its so many people favorite Christmas movies too. They are all so horrible to Meredith who does nothing wrong. Is it fun to watch everyone dump on one person for no reason? Maybe their the ones who love Meet the Parents which I can't stand either.  I just don't get it. 

I love Meet the Parents!  It's definitely a similar movie.

[krankydoodle]

I was listening to a recent episode of the How Did This Get Made podcast and was surprised to hear Jason Mantzoukas say that this is one of the movies he likes to watch every holiday season. Maybe he likes it ironically, but he didn't elaborate so now I'll always wonder...

[Bastet]

It's interesting to see this thread pop up again; all I've ever read about this movie (here; I don't know anyone in real life who has seen it and I've never read any professional reviews) is how awful the other characters are to Sarah Jessica Parker's, so when I was recently going around the dial and came across this just several minutes into its run time, I thought I'd give it a whirl to see what all the consternation is about.

Her character annoyed me so much in about three minutes, I went back to channel surfing.  The other character may indeed be disproportionately awful to her, because being annoying isn't a reason to be treated like shit, but I found her unwatchable.  Maybe that was just a bad scene (although, given the run time, it had to be pretty much her introduction to the audience - she was the passenger in a car, and I can't remember who she was with).  I'll try again next time I stumble across it.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Bastet

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think I said this before, but the family is kind of awful to her for no reason.

Then it's revealed that actually Meredith sucks.  She says crazy shit about being both gay and deaf (one of the brothers is both).  She says something like "Wouldn't you rather have a normal child?"  

I hate everyone in the movie except for Luke Wilson's character, Patrick (the deaf brother's partner (husband?), and the cop at the end.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 1/5/2020 at 2:19 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Then it's revealed that actually Meredith sucks.  She says crazy shit about being both gay and deaf (one of the brothers is both).  She says something like "Wouldn't you rather have a normal child?" 

"I always wanted you to be gay so you could stay my little boy forever."

......Thanks, Mom. Not.

[VCRTracking]

On 1/4/2020 at 11:19 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think I said this before, but the family is kind of awful to her for no reason.

Then it's revealed that actually Meredith sucks.  She says crazy shit about being both gay and deaf (one of the brothers is both).  She says something like "Wouldn't you rather have a normal child?"  

I hate everyone in the movie except for Luke Wilson's character, Patrick (the deaf brother's partner (husband?), and the cop at the end.

 

14 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

"I always wanted you to be gay so you could stay my little boy forever."

......Thanks, Mom. Not.

In another movie the family would be polite while the newcomer says these clueless, horrible things at dinner while they look at each other like "Can you believe her?" rolling their eyes and not saying anything, tolerating her. Then finally in the third act, after she makes thoughtlessly insulting comments the whole movie, one of the family snaps and tells her off and it would be a big audience applause moment. I think the best way in situations is neither guests nor hosts should be rude.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Not everyone thinks that tolerating bigotry is the same as politeness.

[Nordly Beaumont]

On 2/7/2020 at 2:57 AM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

"I always wanted you to be gay so you could stay my little boy forever."

......Thanks, Mom. Not.

Well, he did sit there and pout like a child so I guess she got her way. Of course his childishness had nothing to do with him being gay,.. guess mom doesn't want to take responsibility for that.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Well, he did sit there and pout like a child so I guess she got her way.

Oh, well, sure. In real life, Mom's overweening "support" and condescension would have caused him to at least leave the table if not the house, and I get that it's supposed to be a stark contrast to Meredith saying something thoughtless. Of course, in real life, I doubt anyone would say it quite like that.

[slf]

On 2/7/2020 at 2:57 AM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

"I always wanted you to be gay so you could stay my little boy forever."

......Thanks, Mom. Not.

I always took those comments as jokes. Granted, cringey 'the writers are trying too hard' kind of jokes but, imo, it's clear we aren't meant to think the mom is being serious.

[Spartan Girl]

It still wasn't a good thing to say.

And whatever you think of what Meredith said, keep him mind that she at least tried to be polite and not saying anything initially while the rest of the family -- the sister especially -- had already decided they didn't like her, treated her like dirt for most of the weekend, and seemed bound and determined to goad her into some kind of confrontation over their differences. So when everyone was at the dinner table making those "jokes" and precious Julie was permitted to ask nosy and rude questions, Meredith let her guard down and put her foot in her mouth. And everyone pounced on it and Everett threw her the wolves.

Fuck the Stones and fuck this movie.

[kiddo82]

The whole dinner scene is so cringe worthy and not for the way it's intended.  In a better movie it's a commentary on how they are all hypocritical assholes but that's giving this one too much credit.  Luke Wilson's reference of the "We're here  We're Queer" slogan is just awkward and dumb (as is the family's reaction as if it's the cleverest thing ever) and the pouting.  Oh, the pouting.

[slf]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

It still wasn't a good thing to say.

And whatever you think of what Meredith said, keep him mind that she at least tried to be polite and not saying anything initially while the rest of the family -- the sister especially -- had already decided they didn't like her, treated her like dirt for most of the weekend, and seemed bound and determined to goad her into some kind of confrontation over their differences. So when everyone was at the dinner table making those "jokes" and precious Julie was permitted to ask nosy and rude questions, Meredith let her guard down and put her foot in her mouth. And everyone pounced on it and Everett threw her the wolves.

Fuck the Stones and fuck this movie.

Well, I'm bi so I make jokes about my sexuality and so does my family. The son had no issue with it. I thought the jokes were lame, personally, but they weren't offensive or anything.

I think something that gets firgotten by people who've watched this kovie is that this wasn't everyone's first time interacting with Meredith. The sister had met her before, which clearly didn't go much better than the Christmas visit, and one of the brithers had spoken to her. Both oretty much described her as stuck-up, which she was. That's literally how her character is written and is the point of the movie. One of the opening scenes is her demanding someone stay at work to send her something even though it's the friday before Christmas ("I don't care if it's Christmas!"). So she was already unpopular with almost half the family. Then immediately upon entering the house and meeting the deaf son she shouts at him. Which isn't just ignorance, though it's also that and rude. By the time they got to the dinner pretty much everyone in the family was annoyed by her, not without reason. Then she went and really put her foot in it at dinner.

Yeah, they were visibly annoyed by her being stuck up and did not try at all to hide it. And each was annoying in his or her own way. I just...cannot find it in me to see Meredith as the injured party. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Meredith didn't act stuck up though?  

I've met a lot….. a looooooooot of women who have dated my brothers, and Rachel's character's behaviour is just beyond the pale.  I always act open, polite, and giving the person the benefit of the doubt if they seem to be having a bad day.  I do it because I love my brothers.

[kiddo82]

25 minutes ago, slf said:

Then immediately upon entering the house and meeting the deaf son she shouts at him. Which isn't just ignorance, though it's also that and rude.

She's rude, and ignorance is not an excuse as she's an adult, but I haaaaate Thad's passive aggressive "Why is she shouting at me?" aside to the family.  He knows why.  They all know why.  Because she's ignorant and a rude in that moment.  But it's also a mistake that could be made by anyone who hasn't had much interaction with someone who is hearing impaired. The problem is that the family decided they already didn't like her and instead of giving her the benefit of the doubt they assumed it was coming from an intolerant place.

Edited February 9, 2020 by kiddo82

[slf]

2 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

She's rude, and ignorance is not an excuse as she's an adult, but I haaaaate Thad's passive aggressive "Why is she shouting at me?" aside to the family.  He knows why.  They all know why.  Because she's ignorant and a rude in that moment.  But it's also a mistake that could be made by anyone who hasn't had much interaction with someone who is hearing impaired. The problem is that the family decided they already didn't like her and instead of giving her the benefit of the doubt they assumed it was coming from an intolerant place.

I don't think Thad was being passive aggressive, I think he was asking the question all deaf people ask when someone who knows they can't hear decides yelling is appropriate. 

[nara]

Just saw this movie for the first time. What a dreadful family. Everett was a jerk who allowed his family to treat his girlfriend badly and then chased after her sister. The scene in which he forced Julie to wear the ring was cringeworthy. I wish she hadn’t gotten off the bus, although I would have been okay with them getting together later. Interestingly, I can see why he’s immediately attracted to Julie, but I found her returning the attraction to be unrealistic.

I felt no sadness at Sybil being terminally ill—she was so hateful.

I think a better ending for Amy would have been to grow up and lose her brattiness, not to get together with a nice guy.

 I hated Meredith’s comments to Thad and Patrick, but she didn’t deserve all the hostility before that. I think her and Ben getting together should have been the only couple happy ending, though hints at the other two would have been fine.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 11/26/2020 at 8:18 PM, nara said:

 I hated Meredith’s comments to Thad and Patrick, but she didn’t deserve all the hostility before that. 

Yeah.  Watching it again as I do every holiday and ohhhhhh my goodness.  Meredith's comments are sooooooooo bad.

https://ew.com/movies/the-family-stone-oral-history/

 

[nomodrama]

On 1/3/2020 at 5:26 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I started out disliking this movie, but now I have to watch it every holiday season to feel whole again.

Me too, but I don't think I've ever disliked it. 

 

On 2/9/2020 at 11:40 AM, slf said:

Well, I'm bi so I make jokes about my sexuality and so does my family. The son had no issue with it. I thought the jokes were lame, personally, but they weren't offensive or anything.

I think something that gets firgotten by people who've watched this kovie is that this wasn't everyone's first time interacting with Meredith. The sister had met her before, which clearly didn't go much better than the Christmas visit, and one of the brithers had spoken to her. Both oretty much described her as stuck-up, which she was. That's literally how her character is written and is the point of the movie. One of the opening scenes is her demanding someone stay at work to send her something even though it's the friday before Christmas ("I don't care if it's Christmas!"). So she was already unpopular with almost half the family. Then immediately upon entering the house and meeting the deaf son she shouts at him. Which isn't just ignorance, though it's also that and rude. By the time they got to the dinner pretty much everyone in the family was annoyed by her, not without reason. Then she went and really put her foot in it at dinner.

Yeah, they were visibly annoyed by her being stuck up and did not try at all to hide it. And each was annoying in his or her own way. I just...cannot find it in me to see Meredith as the injured party. 

I agree with all of the above and can't see Meredith as the injured party either. I think she was pretty awful from the get go as well. 

I will admit though, I'm the oldest sister in a family with 4 kids, I have 1 brother. My mother and I have always had a very rocky relationship to the point that we have spent years not speaking to each other at times. The biggest bane of my existence was always watching my mother fall over herself sucking up to any girl my brother brought home. He was her sweet baby boy and any girl he dated had to be treated like royalty. So I think this movie helps me deal with a lot of my issues with that. 

[Yeahidk]

But did anybody else have a problem with Everett’s aggressive behavior towards his sister like he was gonna hit her and the whole family was just cool with it?

[T Summer]

On 1/5/2021 at 11:24 PM, Yeahidk said:

But did anybody else have a problem with Everett’s aggressive behavior towards his sister like he was gonna hit her and the whole family was just cool with it?

I've just read every word of this thread looking for exactly this! He was menacing as he  moved toward his sister and said you're all going to pull your fangs out of her and realize she's someone who means a lot to me. (paraphrasing)

wow.

...and I like SJP just fine. I think she gave a lot of life to the series SATC and I liked her in Hocus Pocus and Extreme measures (though that Divorce mess on HBO was unforgivable), but has anyone one else noticed the inordinate amount of  times she's screamed that horrid shrill scream in her various roles? In SATC when she saw a squirrel at Aiden's cabin, when she slipped and fell in the pond in the park walking with Big, in the opening of the ep. "The Catch" when she's practicing the flying trapeze and in this movie being discussed in the car when it slips out of gear,  as well as in the movie Failure To Launch when she sees a chipmunk?

What is up with  all the screaming?

[Ms Blue Jay]

21 hours ago, T Summer said:

...and I like SJP just fine. I think she gave a lot of life to the series SATC and I liked her in Hocus Pocus and Extreme measures (though that Divorce mess on HBO was unforgivable), but has anyone one else noticed the inordinate amount of  times she's screamed that horrid shrill scream in her various roles? In SATC when she saw a squirrel at Aiden's cabin, when she slipped and fell in the pond in the park walking with Big, in the opening of the ep. "The Catch" when she's practicing the flying trapeze and in this movie being discussed in the car when it slips out of gear,  as well as in the movie Failure To Launch when she sees a chipmunk?

What is up with  all the screaming?

We've ranted about this in the SATC threads ad nauseam, believe me! 😁

[T Summer]

18 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

We've ranted about this in the SATC threads ad nauseam, believe me! 😁

Thumps head'

Of course, there are SATC threads. I didn't even think of that. Please tell me it's  just the series represented here and NOT the movies!

It really seems  that on the episodes where she has an executive producer credit... she's getting that scream in there.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yes, that's what we figured.

We talk about the show mostly, but we also talk about the movies.

 

On 6/12/2021 at 4:17 AM, T Summer said:

What is up with  all the screaming?

I think she thinks it's adorable, or someone told her it was once, or something, and then she really went nuts with it.  I kind of liked the show "Divorce" and I (hopefully) don't remember her doing that there... 

[Sandman]

On 2/16/2019 at 7:00 PM, andromeda331 said:

Maybe their the ones who love Meet the Parents which I can't stand either.  I just don't get it. 

I usually feel like a minority of one when it comes to Meet the Parents, because I think it's truly vile. Just unrelievedly nasty, through and through. (Cringe comedy has never been my thing.) I just don't get it, either, but now I don't feel so alone. So, thank you, @andromeda331

And thanks to @Ms Blue Jay for the chance to sort out my attribution.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Sandman
Meet The Parents broke my brain.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I love "Meet the Parents".  That was actually @andromeda331's quote.  😁. Although trust me, I get it.  It took time for the movie to grow on me, and there's definitely some rough parts.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[SlovakPrincess]

Rewatched the dramatic dinner scene and Oh. My. God.  it is so much worse than I had remembered.  

Meredith is inexcusable ... but what are we supposed to do with this horrible, long, cringeworthy scene?  Is the audience supposed to think she's actually a bigot?  Obviously not, since she's our protagonist and apparently just needed to drink and loosen up to be likable, according to the script!  Does the family actually think she's a bigot?  If so, then why do they all make up with her after they get their wish (she's not marrying golden boy Everett, just hooking up with lesser son Ben)?   Either they think she is bigoted and hurtful to their family members (Thad and his husband), and thus they shouldn't want her around at all ... or they suspected all along that she's just tactless, has the social skills of a squirrel, and really meant something more along the lines of "it's hard to be gay in this world because other people are cruel" ... and thus screaming at her until she ran away crying was, shall we say, excessive.

Really just infuriating that Thad is kind of treated like a child during this scene ... and that he basically exists so other characters can have an argument about and around him, when really it's not about him at all and nobody actually seems to think she's a homophobe, they just don't like her for myriad reasons and this is the excuse to finally tell her to fuck off.  It's cringe on so many levels.  

[Spartan Girl]

So apparently this will be the next subject of AB Club’s When Romance Met Comedy climb: “What makes The Family Stone sparkle?” UGH.

I can just picture Everett making an AITA (Am I the Asshole) post: “I brought my conservative girlfriend to meet my liberal family for the holidays, and I knew they were going to clash, especially since things are already on edge with my mom’s cancer coming back. I was going to propose, but after meeting her younger sister, I’m having second thoughts. We haven’t known each other long but she’s so much less uptight and my family likes her better. AITA for thinking about proposing to her instead?”

Yes. Without question.

[SlovakPrincess]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

So apparently this will be the next subject of AB Club’s When Romance Met Comedy climb: “What makes The Family Stone sparkle?” UGH.

Hee, that's hilarious.  I'm not sure what sparkles more ... the depressing terminal cancer plot (imagine if you'd expected a screwball comedy and seen this for the first time on your first Christmas after losing a loved one -- talk about getting blindsided!) ... or the painfully awkward and/or angry interactions through most of the film ... or Dermot Mulroney's lugubrious "I don't really wanna be here" acting. 

[Fool to cry]

It's so clearly just telling the old story that's now the formula for Hallmark movies(uptight businesswoman from the city falls for small town good-hearted easy going hunk) but adding family drama around it. Diane Keaton had a similar thing with BABY BOOM only it was her also trying to raise a baby.

[Spartan Girl]

28 minutes ago, Fool to cry said:

It's so clearly just telling the old story that's now the formula for Hallmark movies(uptight businesswoman from the city falls for small town good-hearted easy going hunk) but adding family drama around it. Diane Keaton had a similar thing with BABY BOOM only it was her also trying to raise a baby.

Don't you dare compare Baby Boom to this piece of shit, lol!

[overtherainbow]

On 12/6/2021 at 6:25 PM, SlovakPrincess said:

Rewatched the dramatic dinner scene and Oh. My. God.  it is so much worse than I had remembered.  

Meredith is inexcusable ... but what are we supposed to do with this horrible, long, cringeworthy scene?  Is the audience supposed to think she's actually a bigot?  Obviously not, since she's our protagonist and apparently just needed to drink and loosen up to be likable, according to the script!  Does the family actually think she's a bigot?  If so, then why do they all make up with her after they get their wish (she's not marrying golden boy Everett, just hooking up with lesser son Ben)?   Either they think she is bigoted and hurtful to their family members (Thad and his husband), and thus they shouldn't want her around at all ... or they suspected all along that she's just tactless, has the social skills of a squirrel, and really meant something more along the lines of "it's hard to be gay in this world because other people are cruel" ... and thus screaming at her until she ran away crying was, shall we say, excessive.

Really just infuriating that Thad is kind of treated like a child during this scene ... and that he basically exists so other characters can have an argument about and around him, when really it's not about him at all and nobody actually seems to think she's a homophobe, they just don't like her for myriad reasons and this is the excuse to finally tell her to fuck off.  It's cringe on so many levels.  

Thad was literally a prop/plot device.  I've never seen a more meaningless, one dimensional character. Checked all the boxes though - deaf, gay, black fiance. Look, the Stones are plenty tolerant! 🙄

The dinner scene was atrocious, probably the worst scene in any movie I've seen. Second was the lame ring drama with Claire Danes and everyone's general assholery. I cannot even hate watch it anymore around this time of year when it comes on, I just cringe.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 12/6/2021 at 6:25 PM, SlovakPrincess said:

Meredith is inexcusable ... but what are we supposed to do with this horrible, long, cringeworthy scene?  Is the audience supposed to think she's actually a bigot?  Obviously not, since she's our protagonist and apparently just needed to drink and loosen up to be likable, according to the script!  Does the family actually think she's a bigot?  If so, then why do they all make up with her after they get their wish (she's not marrying golden boy Everett, just hooking up with lesser son Ben)?   Either they think she is bigoted and hurtful to their family members (Thad and his husband), and thus they shouldn't want her around at all ... or they suspected all along that she's just tactless, has the social skills of a squirrel, and really meant something more along the lines of "it's hard to be gay in this world because other people are cruel" ... and thus screaming at her until she ran away crying was, shall we say, excessive.

Meredith actually calls the family on the way they'd treated her since she showed up, is the thing, and then they're all shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that she thinks they don't like her. Like, read the room, folks. Because Amy decided she hated her even before the dinner scene, and then her mother followed her lead, more or less setting the trap during the meal that Meredith stumbles into by being tactless, not to mention nervous because she's meeting her prospective in-laws. That Everett sits there like a lump almost makes him worse than his lousy sister, since he's the one who brought Meredith into the situation to begin with.  Jerk.

[SlovakPrincess]

On 2/9/2020 at 12:38 PM, kiddo82 said:

The whole dinner scene is so cringe worthy and not for the way it's intended.  In a better movie it's a commentary on how they are all hypocritical assholes but that's giving this one too much credit.  Luke Wilson's reference of the "We're here  We're Queer" slogan is just awkward and dumb (as is the family's reaction as if it's the cleverest thing ever) and the pouting.  Oh, the pouting.

Not to mention when the Luke Wilson character (Ben) "jokes" he'd like to have a little Black baby (to help the Claire Danes character that everyone inexplicably and immediately loves, who just asked if Thad and husband had a race preference for their adopted child) ... and then he says "can ya dig it?!" in this really exaggerated way ... and they all laugh and laugh. What. The. Fuck. is wrong with these people.  

Edited December 8, 2021 by SlovakPrincess

[Fool to cry]

I really think the makers of Morning Glory (2010) knew there would people still angry at The Family Stone who wanted to see Diane Keaton be mean towards Rachel McAdams!

[Spartan Girl]

I wonder if it would have made the slightest bit of difference if the Stones actually acknowledged that they treated Meredith like shit and actually apologized for it. Sybil’s “it’s nothing person, we’re just all each other has” bullshit was as big a non-apology as you can get.

[Bastet]

I tried - for the second time - to watch this movie, since it generates such discussion, and I made it farther this time (45 minutes instead of five), but I cannot with this shit.  This is one of the stupidest scripts I have ever endured.  The only likable characters are the deaf guy and his boyfriend, and I don't even feel bad about not learning their names because they are such empty caricatures I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the script as The Deaf Guy and His Boyfriend.

Everyone else sucks.  Yes, including Meredith, very much, so while I agree with the "You jerks" part of this thread's title, I am not down with "Meredith did nothing wrong". 

But this film sure did, because there is no foundation laid for why Amy - the only one who has met her - hates her before she even arrives, or why the rest of the family follows suit based on what Amy said -- all she tells them is Meredith is annoying because she talks about herself constantly and clears her throat all the time.  Somehow Sybil takes this as a reason to be the most rude host in the history of time.  It makes NO sense to give Amy the most trivial problems with Meredith to mention, or for the family to react to it the way they do.

The flaw repeats itself when Claire Danes arrives, because we have literally not seen her interact with the Stones beyond saying "Really, I'm fine" when they're fussing over the knee she hurt upon falling off the bus - which means she just got there, not that they've had an hour's interaction that wasn't shown - yet they all love her.

I'll finish it tonight to see if there's anything for which I can give it credit, but so far this is a lot like another Christmas movie I finally watched recently and hated like it was poison, Love Actually - it absolutely squanders a good cast on a ridiculous script.

[Bastet]

22 hours ago, Bastet said:

I'll finish it tonight to see if there's anything for which I can give it credit,

I finished it last night, and I did tear up along with the pregnant sister to "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" and again as soon as the final scene started, knowing it was the next year, their first Christmas without Sybil.

And I laughed at one point during the Christmas morning wacky hijinks, when in the midst of everyone chasing, yelling, and crying, the paramedic leans across to Julie and says, "Hi, I don't think we've met."

But that's about it.  I cannot believe Meredith never apologized!  Kelly went to the inn to apologize to her, but she wasn't there, Amy was about to do the same the next morning, but she was crying over the picture and then all the non-proposal shit started, and in the kitchen Sybil responded to Meredith's "I'm just as good as any of you" with "Of course you are; better, probably", but Meredith - Ms. "I just think any parent would want a normal child" - apparently never even thought about apologizing for her role.

Good gods.  Amy's hatred of her from jump was totally over the top (at least based on the big ball of nothing we were given as to why she couldn't stand her after that one dinner they had), as was most of the family's initial reactions to her missteps (Meredith could teach graduate level courses in how to go about things the wrong way, but come on - give a nervous woman walking into meeting an entire family some leeway at first), but what she said at THEIR dinner table on Christmas Eve?!  She had multiple opportunities to just fucking stop, but she kept on, and then when Everett finally, after sitting there listening to her not just be generally offensive, but specifically to and about his brother and mother, responded to her umpteenth "I didn't mean that" with "Why don't you try saying what it is you do mean," she pulls this wounded act like he betrayed her.

Fool, please; if everything that has come out of your mouth for the past five minutes has sounded bigoted, then you either are a bigot or you are completely incapable of expressing yourself, and either way the thing to do is stop saying these things.

But nope, not Meredith.  When it's clear she's made the entire room hideously uncomfortable and offended, to the point she's flat out told "That's enough," she doubles down with "I just think any parent would want a normal child".

One thing I do feel sorry for Meredith about is how her not wanting to be hugged by people she's just met is counted as a strike against her, another sign of how uptight she is.  It's not rude not to want to be hugged by your boyfriend's father three seconds after meeting him; what's rude is to, when someone has extended their hand in greeting, ignore that in favor of forcing a hug on them.  And then later she has to squirm away because Ben thinks it's totally okay to - again, within a short time of meeting her - come wrap his arm around her.

There really could have been something to this movie, especially with how the varying degrees of knowledge among the family members (some know, some know without knowing, some don't know) that this will be their last Christmas with Sybil affect everything that happens, but the script never delivers.  It just throws stuff out there - Amy hates Meredith, the family figures Meredith is awful if Amy hates her so much (even though Amy hates everyone and has listed only minor annoyances as the basis for her grievance), Julie is the greatest thing since sliced bread, Meredith isn't an asshole she just tries too hard, Julie and Everett are perfect for each other and not at all hesitant by the fact he was with her sister until five minutes ago, Meredith and Ben are perfect for each other and not at all hesitant by the fact she was with his brother until five minutes ago - without establishing a basis for any of it.  It just tells, never shows.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

But that's about it.  I cannot believe Meredith never apologized!  Kelly went to the inn to apologize to her, but she wasn't there, Amy was about to do the same the next morning, but she was crying over the picture and then all the non-proposal shit started, and in the kitchen Sybil responded to Meredith's "I'm just as good as any of you" with "Of course you are; better, probably", but Meredith - Ms. "I just think any parent would want a normal child" - apparently never even thought about apologizing for her role.

Actually Meredith did apologize, at least to Everett, after the big kitchen debacle. I don’t think she needed to apologize to him after the way he basically put her on the spot with his family, knowing that she was conservative and would probably wind up clashing for some way or another only to dump her in front of all of them for her fucking sister, but apologized all the same. I’d like to think she probably apologized to the others offscreen, etc. as far as I’m concerned, she didn’t owe Amy shit.

But like I said before, Sybil didn’t apologize either. She barely had a kind word for Meredith until she gave the picture to the family, and even then, all she could muster was “you did good.” 🙄

Edited December 9, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Actually Meredith did apologize, at least to Everett,

Yeah, but that seems to be about the non-engagement/Everett vs. Ben debacle that morning, not about the hideous things she said at dinner the night before.  

The idea of saying what she did and walking back into that house without apologizing to everyone is beyond me.  Yet at the bar later that night and at the house the next morning, she never once acted like, let alone said to anyone (like, oh, I don't know, Thad and Patrick, who, unlike Sybil, were never unkind to her) she knew she was wrong, too.  That's what really kills me, because there are at a couple of points talk among some of the Stones at least somewhat acknowledging their faults towards her, but she seems either oblivious to or totally defiant about hers towards them.

(It doesn't matter to me that they also owe her apologies for other things; that they started off right out the gate as terrible hosts, harder on her than they had any right to be, does nothing to diminish the fact that the way she conducted herself while a guest at someone's Christmas Eve dinner was deplorable.  If she'd decided Screw it, you don't like me, I don't like you, so I'm through trying since you'll clearly never make any effort and was condescending or otherwise rude to them, that would have been tit for tat.  She was instead grossly offensive, and kept getting more offensive instead of taking one of the many opportunities she had to shut up.)

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

But like I said before, Sybil didn’t apologize either.

Not the words "I'm sorry", no, but cleaning her up and agreeing "Yes, you are; probably better" when Meredith stands there covered in breakfast goo and says "I'm just as good as any of you" is more of a gesture than Meredith ever offered to Sybil about attacking her parenting and saying a gay son is not a "normal" child.

I'm not even sure who this film expects me to side with at any point; I think I'm supposed to somehow root for all of them, but instead I dislike most of them, with Meredith being near the top of that list.  Pre-Christmas Eve dinner, I think they're worse to her than she is to them, so my sympathy is more with her, but at Christmas Eve dinner, she's utterly horrid and I have zero sympathy for her, and then Christmas Day I feel like it should all kind of balance out because she gives everyone a nice gift and endures the "I'm not proposing" humiliation, but it doesn't because I'm gobsmacked by the fact she doesn't seem to think she was awful at dinner.  There's never an "I know I screwed up last night, but" mixed in with any of her "You all hate me, you think I'm this and that, doesn't anyone love me, what's so great about you guys, nothing" stuff and there hadn't even been any sort of "I can't believe I said it that way" when getting drinks with Ben in the aftermath.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Bastet

[Spartan Girl]

The writers couldn’t make up its mind about who they want us to root for (if anyone). They tell us the Stones are such loving, open-minded people, but they show them being insufferable and treating Meredith like something they scraped off the bottom of their shoes. It’s the same case with Meredith: we are told that she’s an uptight obnoxious ignorant snob (and she certainly comes off like that at times), but some of us can’t help feeling sorry for her because the Stones are so awful to her. I mean, we’ve all said stupid ignorant things in our lives, and while we’d like to believe that in that position we’d immediately apologize and take them back, but that’s not always the case. And when we’re nervous and already on the edge (as Meredith clearly was), we wind up making things worse. I’m not excusing it, I’m just saying it’s human nature.

And as for way she didn’t immediately apologize to everyone Christmas morning, need I remind you that she woke up hung over in Ben’s bed believing that she cheated on Everett. So that left her pretty rattled.

A better, more well-thought and written version of the movie would have drawn the lines clearer. Not to mention called the Stones out on their passive manipulative bullshit, and ended the movie with Julie and Meredith showing sisterly solidarity by walking out of the house and leaving superdouche Everett in the dust. Really, why Julie didn’t throw the ring in his face (after she got it off) and call him an asshole for being so fickle is beyond my understanding.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[SlovakPrincess]

Given the context of the big blowout that sent Meredith sobbing into the night, shouldn't the gift that got everyone to rethink their opinion of her be ... a nice gift for Thad and Patrick?   Like something baby-themed that shows she supports them as parents?   

Honestly, I don't know even know why Meredith got the family a big copy of an old picture of Sybil ... a picture that the family should've already had.  Like, I get that it ties together the Sybil-Is-Dying and Everyone-Hates-Meredith plots, but it doesn't resolve the actual and more serious conflict that arises during dinner.   

[Spartan Girl]

Can we all agree that Julie is the worst sister ever? Sybil and Amy were the ones that at least went to console Meredith after the ring debacle, but Julie just sat there?! Didn’t even apologize or explain herself!

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:27 PM, Bastet said:

Yeah, but that seems to be about the non-engagement/Everett vs. Ben debacle that morning, not about the hideous things she said at dinner the night before.  

Here's the thing: Did Everett not know that Meredith could be hideously tactless?

Let's go with the idea that Meredith was a homophobic bigot who was at best condescending at at worst deliberately offensive, that the Stones (even Amy, who started it over a 'big ball of nothing') did and said not one thing that merited an apology. I don't believe that, but just for the sake of argument. Why in the blue hell would Everett bring this woman into his family's home for the holiday knowing what she was like, that she was bound to say something that would piss everyone off, that his mother was sick again and probably didn't need the stress of not one but two strangers showing up for what likely should have been a family-only gathering? The only reason Meredith was even there was because moron Everett invited her, but why was he even involved with her if she was really so awful? If anything is deplorable, it's him for dragging her into a situation he had to know would turn out badly, at least if he knew her (and his relatives) at all.

[Sandman]

On 12/7/2021 at 6:37 AM, Spartan Girl said:

“What makes The Family Stone sparkle?” UGH.

"Sparkle"? I think this has to be a misprint. Are we sure it's not "What Makes The Family Stone Spackle?"

Spackle (Let's see: It's white, cold, sticky, full of bland lumps...) I could believe, but sparkle? Nope.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Have we really never discussed Elizabeth Reaser's character?  Sorry if I missed it.  You're telling me this woman's "husband" (???? does he even exist) missed TWO CHRISTMASES IN A ROW with the family?!?!?!  Where is he?

I think I wrote a review of this movie that said "Is she making him up?"

[Bastet]

9 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Have we really never discussed Elizabeth Reaser's character?  Sorry if I missed it.  You're telling me this woman's "husband" (???? does he even exist) missed TWO CHRISTMASES IN A ROW with the family?!?!?!  Where is he?

I can't remember if he's there yet on Christmas Two*, but he shows up for Christmas One - he arrives right before Sybil's last scene (where she's looking out the window and says it's snowing), greets his family, and asks who Amy is making out with in an ambulance.

*I think he is, but I don't have a specific memory of him like I do from his scene in the first Christmas.