Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Raachel2008]

2 hours ago, MadMouse said:

Loving her doesn't make him any less honorable and damn the world if they think so.  If Ned can do it for the love of a woman, so can he.

I'm not sure I follow, why would Jon think loving Dany makes him less honorable? That doesn't make sense to me. Jon loved a wildling and never onced it was implied it made him less honorable or that Jon though it made him less honorable. In fact, there was never a single thing in Jon's story implying that loving someone made that person less honorable.

Also, Jon learning that Ned lied to everybody and 'tarnished' his own honor and reputation claiming Jon as his, this will make Jon worshipp Ned even more. Let's be real, even in the books there is nothing, nothing that will make the Stark children stop seeing Ned as the best ever. Or most fans for the matter. 

16 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Since everyone believes Dany is infertile, and Tyrion seems obsessed with Dany dying, I'm wondering if Tyrion promised Cersei that her child would be named Dany's heir. We never saw the end of the conversation that led to Cersei "promising" her forces, and that could explain why Tyrion looked so guilty in the boat scene, because he already promised away her kingdom (and oh no, what happens if Jon Snow puts a baby in her!)

I very much doubt Dany would agree with it. In fact, I think she would never ever agree with it. 

[MadMouse]

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

I'm not sure I follow, why would Jon think loving Dany makes him less honorable? That doesn't make sense to me. Jon loved a wildling and never onced it was implied it made him less honorable or that Jon though it made him less honorable. In fact, there was never a single thing in Jon's story implying that loving someone made that person less honorable.

Also, Jon learning that Ned lied to everybody and 'tarnished' his own honor and reputation claiming Jon as his, this will make Jon worshipp Ned even more. Let's be real, even in the books there is nothing, nothing that will make the Stark children stop seeing Ned as the best ever. Or most fans for the matter. 

Because he chose duty and honor over his love for Ygritte. When Aemon gives the love and duty speech he says his father would make the right choice and that in his mind his honor and duty over love. But knowing that Ned did choose love will be major moment for him in questioning his beliefs about honor and duty. I never said it would make his opinion of Ned worse in fact I said the opposite, it made him even a better man. Why would loving Dany be dishonorable? Personally as is I don't think there's any reason but I'm sure the show will come up with one. It could be incest or maybe lords accuse him of bending the knee because they're sleeping together. I'm leaning towards that reason at the moment since someone mentioned how shocked Sansa seemed at the prospect of Jon marrying Dany when Baelish brought it up.

Edited August 30, 2017 by MadMouse

[YaddaYadda]

9 hours ago, MadMouse said:

About Jon finding out the truth of his heritage. I know people think its going to be this huge blow to him, but I don't think it will be. Of course it will be shocking and throw him for a loop. But he'll finally know he just didn't have one parent who loved him but three. We can argue how stupid Rhaegar and Lyanna to death but they did love each other and he's product of that love. That's huge for a bastard, in a world were they're considered born out lust. And the other is Ned, they've hammered home how honorable he was this season, Jon tells Jorah he was good all the way through. But Ned did exactly what Aemon spoke to Jon about, he sacrificed duty and honor, for the love of a woman his sister and a child Jon. Put that to together with his conversation with Theon, not just about embracing both parts of himself but when he talks about not being perfect and making mistakes. The knowledge that Ned wasn't this perfect figure that I think Jon tries to live up too will be a defining moment for him. Ned was still a great man in spite of sacrificing his honor and was actually a better man for it.  If they have Jon being conflicted about Dany I also think this will put an end to it. Loving her doesn't make him any less honorable and damn the world if they think so.  If Ned can do it for the love of a woman, so can he.

I agree with this. I think motivation for Ned and even whatever Rhaegar did was fleshed out in that Maester Aemon speech. 

Love is the bane of honor and the death of duty. 

I think Jon finding out in the books will be a bit harder for him than it is on the show. But I think he's in a really good position to understand because that's the very thing that got him stabbed and killed in the first place.

[TarotQueen]

I wonder if Jon might find out publicly?  We've all already seen how tactless Brandon is so that wont be a barrier ... I can see a situation where Jon rushes the reunion with his siblings (I have to meet with the Northern lords!) to introduce them to Dany and then in the ensuing controversy Bran's hand is forced and he has to blurt it out like 'hey you already HAD a Targaryen king anyway so quityerbitchin'.

No matter how Jon may reel inside at the news, he would handle himself if he found out in public.

[Brn2bwild]

12 hours ago, domina89 said:

So Jon and Dany are on their way to Winterfell where they should meet up with Sam. That's going to be one seriously awkward conversation...

Jon: "Hey Sam, this is Daenerys Targaryen, my queen and love of my life . Your Grace, this is Samwell Tarly, my bestest friend in the whole world."

Dany: "Nice to meet you, Sam...um, did you say Tarly?"

Sam: "Yes"

Dany: "Do you happen to be related to Randall and Dickon Tarly?"

Sam: "Why yes, that's my father and brother."

Bran: "Her dragon roasted them. It was beautiful."

Dany: "..........."

Jon & Sam: ".........................."

Sam: "On that note, I've been meaning to tell you that Jon is actually your nephew and the rightful king of Westeros."

[Eyes High]

Liam Cunningham said in a post-finale interview that he still hasn't received the S8 scripts. As point of reference, scripts had already been distributed and read by late August in 2016. However, filming is supposed to start in October 2017, as opposed to September 2016 which is when filming started last year, so the delay makes sense.

[YaddaYadda]

42 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Varys also had a significant connection to Aerys, and at that point an entire network of little birds.  Who knows what type of wrenches he might have been able to throw into the works at the time, causing all sorts of chaos?

I don't disagree with you, but the way I see this is that both in the books and the show, Littlefinger is the same character. Except for the Vale plot, his story hasn't really changed. He caused the War of the Five Kings, he betrayed Catelyn, he got Ned killed, he instigated all kinds of chaos that led to the fall of two great Houses. He beggared the realm, he bought people. The list of everything he pulled is a really long one.

Contrast that with Varys. Show!Varys and book!Varys are two different characters. When show!Varys says he works for the good of the realm? I kinda believe him. He makes me wary but I believe him. When book!Varys says he works for the good of the realm, I'm like no, you lying scheming asshat, you don't. Varys causes chaos in the books, that's what he does, and he does it well.

Because of that, I don't know where Varys will land on the show. He can go either way. 

In the books, I have about zero doubt that he used to his knowledge to bring down Rhaegar. I'm not even convinced that he was still the crown prince by the time he vanished. The same way I'm not convinced that Ned was ever going to make it to the Wall had Joffrey not had his head lopped off. Varys sent Barristan to Dany, Jon Con and Tyrion to (f)Aegon. I doubt Ned was going to Eastwatch and the Wall had Varys had his way.

On the show, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if they say he knew all along about Jon and decided to keep the information to himself because he knew Ned would take good care of his nephew, but by the time things started going sour, Jon was at the Wall and had already taken his vows, so he threw his support behind Dany. 

I can see him causing tension between Dany and Jon after the way he justified himself with regard to why he moves from one king to the other. Varys had a problem with the way Dany dealt with the Tarlys, he told Tyrion that he needed to keep her in check. And now there's someone with a better claim than hers. 

All in all though, I'm looking forward to Cersei finding out. The thing she has been spewing about Dany, she can't really say about Jon. 

[Enigma X]

I wonder if season 8 will reveal that Varys knew all along about Jon, and his betrayal to Dany would run along the lines that he never had any real intent of backing her. Instead, he was always trying to position Jon in that spot. I don't think Jon will want the throne. I say this because book Varys was a Targaryen supporter and may see Jon as the true heir. Also, I bet he had his "birds" when Aerys was in power. Anyway, I am only speculating out loud.

Disclaimer: I know that does not make much narrative sense, since why wouldn't Varys clue Jon in; Tyrion is the one who urged the Dany/Jon meeting; and, other than speculation, I have no idea that Varys will betray her.

[MadMouse]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I can see him causing tension between Dany and Jon after the way he justified himself with regard to why he moves from one king to the other. Varys had a problem with the way Dany dealt with the Tarlys, he told Tyrion that he needed to keep her in check. And now there's someone with a better claim than hers. 

Don't know if this was intentional by the actor but if you go back and watch the scene where Mel talks about Jon and the type of man he is, Varys body language changes noticeably.

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

I wonder if season 8 will reveal that Varys knew all along about Jon, and his betrayal to Dany would run along the lines that he never had any real intent of backing her. Instead, he was always trying to position Jon in that spot. I don't think Jon will want the throne. I say this because book Varys was a Targaryen supporter and may see Jon as the true heir. Also, I bet he had his "birds" when Aerys was in power. Anyway, I am only speculating out loud.

Disclaimer: I know that does not make much narrative sense, since why wouldn't Varys clue Jon in; Tyrion is the one who urged the Dany/Jon meeting; and, other than speculation, I have no idea that Varys will betray her.

Varys is not a Targaryen supporter in the books. He pretends to be. Is it better politically to tell the realm that the son of Rhaegar who had his head bashed against the wall has survived or to tell them the truth about who this child really is? I know, I keep calling (f)Aegon a child, but he's just the character I feel the sorriest for, especially if he ends up dying. 

I don't know what Varys is up to on the show, tbh. 

35 minutes ago, MadMouse said:

Don't know if this was intentional by the actor but if you go back and watch the scene where Mel talks about Jon and the type of man he is, Varys body language changes noticeably.

I noticed that, but it's just really hard to tell with these things. 

Jeremy Podeswa won't be returning for season 8.

Edited August 30, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't disagree with you, but the way I see this is that both in the books and the show, Littlefinger is the same character. Except for the Vale plot, his story hasn't really changed. He caused the War of the Five Kings, he betrayed Catelyn, he got Ned killed, he instigated all kinds of chaos that led to the fall of two great Houses. He beggared the realm, he bought people. The list of everything he pulled is a really long one.

Contrast that with Varys. Show!Varys and book!Varys are two different characters. When show!Varys says he works for the good of the realm? I kinda believe him. He makes me wary but I believe him. When book!Varys says he works for the good of the realm, I'm like no, you lying scheming asshat, you don't. Varys causes chaos in the books, that's what he does, and he does it well.

Because of that, I don't know where Varys will land on the show. He can go either way. 

In the books, I have about zero doubt that he used to his knowledge to bring down Rhaegar. I'm not even convinced that he was still the crown prince by the time he vanished. The same way I'm not convinced that Ned was ever going to make it to the Wall had Joffrey not had his head lopped off. Varys sent Barristan to Dany, Jon Con and Tyrion to (f)Aegon. I doubt Ned was going to Eastwatch and the Wall had Varys had his way.

On the show, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if they say he knew all along about Jon and decided to keep the information to himself because he knew Ned would take good care of his nephew, but by the time things started going sour, Jon was at the Wall and had already taken his vows, so he threw his support behind Dany. 

I can see him causing tension between Dany and Jon after the way he justified himself with regard to why he moves from one king to the other. Varys had a problem with the way Dany dealt with the Tarlys, he told Tyrion that he needed to keep her in check. And now there's someone with a better claim than hers. 

All in all though, I'm looking forward to Cersei finding out. The thing she has been spewing about Dany, she can't really say about Jon. 

Absolutely, show and books Varys are different things.  What I can see is that Varys onscreen is a conveniently placed character with murky motivations suitable for the writers to use as the catalyst for all of the upheaval to the Targaryens surrounding Aerys, Rhaegar, Elia, Lyanna, etc, etc. -- which could then keep Rhaegar and Lyanna and their love story one to be admired, and therefore the son that resulted deserving of favor.  IMO whatever onscreen Varys did in the past will be uncovered, possibly along with some other betrayals to Dany, and that will be his end.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I can see him causing tension between Dany and Jon after the way he justified himself with regard to why he moves from one king to the other. Varys had a problem with the way Dany dealt with the Tarlys, he told Tyrion that he needed to keep her in check. And now there's someone with a better claim than hers. 

I have always thought that if anyone betrays Daenerys that it would be Varys. If he reappears next season, Daario is also possibility but a minor one. Varys has the noble excuse of "the people" for his betrayal in turning to Jon. However, I think that this would seal his fate and that Jon will kill him and I don't think that this how Varys dies.

Edited August 30, 2017 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

The Hollywood Reporter citing sources says that GOT Season 8 will have an extended filming schedule: October 2017 through August 2018.

In previous seasons, filming has run for six months. This extended schedule would mean 11 months. That's right, almost double the schedule of a usual season.

This almost guarantees a 2019 release in my opinion. It will also fuel speculation about whether some or all of the six episodes are movie-length.

In other news: Jeremy Podeswa will not be back for Season 8. For those who missed it, Matt Shakman won't be returning for S8, either.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Eyes High

[Azi]

Speaking of Podeswa, that's what he said about Tyrion's reaction to boatsex:

 

Quote

So what everyone is wondering about is what we should read into Tyrion’s expression as he stands outside Dany’s room while she and Jon are having sex inside. He definitely looks apprehensive, but are we meant to see jealousy as well?

Well I think there’s jealousy, but it’s maybe not romantic jealousy, in the way that it is for Jorah, for example. I think that for Tyrion, it’s more complicated. I think he has a very special relationship with Dany and he really believes in her as a true leader and has invested a lot in her. I think for him, with Jon and Dany getting together, this represents a possible undermining of his position with her and also a monkey wrench thrown into what the master plan really is meant to be around this entire alliance. The way I see it is Tyrion is a bit of a strategist—not just a bit of a strategist, he is a major strategist—and I think now, he can’t see where this is gonna go and that’s very difficult for someone who is always thinking three steps ahead. The consequences of Dany and Jon getting together are completely unknown. Is she gonna make decisions now based on this new relationship? Is she gonna be able to separate her personal [interests] from the interests of the greater group? What is this going to foretell for the alliance and what they’re all meant to do as a united front? So I think the worry for him is that now, everything is up for grabs. We don’t really know who’s going to side with who, what’s gonna happen at the end of the day, and which alliances are going to be the strongest. 

source

I mean, on one hand he told Dany that there would be others who'd love her, but on the other I do think that's something he might think because he did not expect Dany truly fall in love in the middle of fighting for the throne and saw her basically agree to everything Jon said for a while now.

[YaddaYadda]

So is Bran going to be Sam's personal library next season? 

Sam: I'm looking for this information, can you find it?
Bran: ......

[Moxie Cat]

8 hours ago, TarotQueen said:

I wonder if Jon might find out publicly?  We've all already seen how tactless Brandon is so that wont be a barrier ...

I actually think Bran is being tactful about this situation, and the reason he hasn't blurted it out to Sansa or Arya already is because he thinks Jon deserves to know first. I think he only told Sam because he's a "a good man" and knows how close Sam is to Jon. (And, because plot: they couldn't have put their two halves of information together without Bran telling Sam.)

Edited August 30, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[Minneapple]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

The Hollywood Reporter citing sources says that GOT Season 8 will have an extended filming schedule: October 2017 through August 2018.

In previous seasons, filming has run for six months. This extended schedule would mean 11 months. That's right, almost double the schedule of a usual season.

This almost guarantees a 2019 release in my opinion. It will also fuel speculation about whether some or all of the six episodes are movie-length.

This also almost guarantees that everything will leak before the season airs. 

[Notwisconsin]

1 minute ago, Minneapple said:

This also almost guarantees that everything will leak before the season airs. 

Good. It would be like the early days when half of all of us watching had already read the books and knew what was going to happen.

[Moxie Cat]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

This also almost guarantees that everything will leak before the season airs. 

Good. When (not if) there are more gut-wrenching deaths, I'll be glad to know in advance and have time to process. Viserion was hard enough. I can't imagine potentially dealing with Jorah, Davos, more dragons, more wolves, or most of the central characters. It would guarantee many sleepless Sunday nights.

On the other hand: 18 months?!?! I will need a LOT of fan fic, show rewatching, and book rereading.

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

This also almost guarantees that everything will leak before the season airs. 

I dunno. Anything filmed outdoors outside Northern Ireland is likely fair game and will be spoiled thoroughly, but without a Lads type spoiling the scripts, anything filmed either indoors (at Paint Hall) or outdoors in NI (at the Winterfell exterior set, for example) will likely be successfully kept secret. Season 6 is likely a better reference point than Season 7. In Season 6, we had a pretty good idea of what would happen in Arya's Braavos storyline thanks to all the exterior scenes shot in Girona (the play, the Waif chasing Arya, etc.), but the Walder Frey murder was a big shocker that wasn't spoiled. On the other hand, Ned and Lyanna's scene was kept successfully under wraps until just before airing (when it was spoiled by /Truede at /Freefolk). Ditto for the 6x10 sept explosion sequence, despite the fact that hundreds of extras were involved. It also seems likely that a good chunk of S8 will of necessity be filmed on those NI sets: anything taking place at Winterfell, KL interiors, etc. 

Bottom line: without Lads or someone like him, there's a lot we won't know until S8 airs.

[Raachel2008]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

In previous seasons, filming has run for six months. This extended schedule would mean 11 months. That's right, almost double the schedule of a usual season.

As long as I get enough screen time to see things developped on screen and not rushed like this season I'm okay. Six episodes, right? If they all have say, 80 minutes, I'm good.

2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

This also almost guarantees that everything will leak before the season airs. 

Agreed. 

4 hours ago, Azi said:

I mean, on one hand he told Dany that there would be others who'd love her, but on the other I do think that's something he might think because he did not expect Dany truly fall in love in the middle of fighting for the throne and saw her basically agree to everything Jon said for a while now.

But in 7x06, Tyrion all but implied that Jon was smitten with Dany and that he knew that Dany was smitten with Jon. He was pushing Jon as suitable candidate for a marriage. Now, there is being smitten and there is being in loooove, and just by watching Jon entering Dany's room doesn't mean truuuu wuuuv. For all Tyrion knows, that was just sex, like Dany had with Daario. But even if he was thinking 'oh, fuck, they are in love and ruined my plans', how could he be surprised by this if he himself saw it coming? See, there is always this giant discrepancy betwen what is on screen and what TPTB say.

18 hours ago, MadMouse said:

Because he chose duty and honor over his love for Ygritte.

But that didn't make him less honorable. Jon didn't see himself that way. His love for Ygritte didn't make him less honorable, neither not staying with her made him less honorable. You see what I mean? In the show Jon never saw love as less honorable, neither he did see duty as less honorable. I don't think he measured up one against another in that way, what is more honorable. Also situations change, what he had with Ygritte happened under different circumstances than with Dany. And make no mistaske: had Ollie not killed Ygritte, she would have come to terms to the fact he lied about the NW to the them, and, just like Tormund, followed Jon as her leader.

[Minneapple]

47 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I dunno. Anything filmed outdoors outside Northern Ireland is likely fair game and will be spoiled thoroughly, but without a Lads type spoiling the scripts, anything filmed either indoors (at Paint Hall) or outdoors in NI (at the Winterfell exterior set, for example) will likely be successfully kept secret. Season 6 is likely a better reference point than Season 7. In Season 6, we had a pretty good idea of what would happen in Arya's Braavos storyline thanks to all the exterior scenes shot in Girona (the play, the Waif chasing Arya, etc.), but the Walder Frey murder was a big shocker that wasn't spoiled. On the other hand, Ned and Lyanna's scene was kept successfully under wraps until just before airing (when it was spoiled by /Truede at /Freefolk). Ditto for the 6x10 sept explosion sequence, despite the fact that hundreds of extras were involved. It also seems likely that a good chunk of S8 will of necessity be filmed on those NI sets: anything taking place at Winterfell, KL interiors, etc. 

Bottom line: without Lads or someone like him, there's a lot we won't know until S8 airs.

My thought is the longer the material is out there somewhere, the bigger chance it has of being leaked. HBO has dealt with all manner of leaks -- hackers,  networks showing the episode early, script pages and outlines getting out, outdoors filming being spoiled by onlookers. They've become a huge target for people just trying to get anything on Game of Thrones. So as time goes by it becomes more and more likely that this stuff gets out.

[MadMouse]

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

But that didn't make him less honorable. Jon didn't see himself that way. His love for Ygritte didn't make him less honorable, neither not staying with her made him less honorable. You see what I mean? In the show Jon never saw love as less honorable, neither he did see duty as less honorable. I don't think he measured up one against another in that way, what is more honorable. Also situations change, what he had with Ygritte happened under different circumstances than with Dany. And make no mistaske: had Ollie not killed Ygritte, she would have come to terms to the fact he lied about the NW to the them, and, just like Tormund, followed Jon as her leader.

Again that's not what I'm saying. Per Aemon's speech about men putting love above honor, Jon makes it clear that Ned would always put honor first. He still believes that now and tries to live up to that impossible standard. He thinks Ned was perfect, honorable and good all the way through. And that's what Jon did when it came to Ygritte, honor and duty before love. But soon he'll find out that Ned didn't always make that choice he did put love before honor and duty when it came to Lyanna and him. It didn't lessen him and that choice made Ned an even more honorable person. That will be the moment that allows him move past what issues he has about himself and Dany. 

I read this again and if it comes snarky, thats not my intention.

Edited August 31, 2017 by MadMouse

[TarotQueen]

5 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

I actually think Bran is being tactful about this situation, and the reason he hasn't blurted it out to Sansa or Arya already is because he thinks Jon deserves to know first. I think he only told Sam because he's a "a good man" and knows how close Sam is to Jon. (And, because plot: they couldn't have put their two halves of information together without Bran telling Sam.)

I meant Bran has already shown how tactless he is in how he dealt with Sansa, not that he has already been that way regarding Jon's parentage.  Yes, he's mostly saving the knowledge for Jon's ears first, but I can also see him finding it so important for Jon to know that he may not gaf who else hears too.

 

Anyway we will see in 2019!

[anamika]

6 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

I actually think Bran is being tactful about this situation, and the reason he hasn't blurted it out to Sansa or Arya already is because he thinks Jon deserves to know first. I think he only told Sam because he's a "a good man" and knows how close Sam is to Jon.

Maybe he also did not tell Sansa and Arya because they were being two dumb idiots who were trying to kill each other!! 

I mean, Sansa was actually contemplating killing Arya, deposing Jon and installing herself as queen until she caught onto what LF was trying to do. Arya was threatening to expose Sansa to the Northern lords or kill her if she goes against Jon. According to Isaac, Bran knew about the sisterly conflict and was letting them sort it out himself before stepping in if it got too deadly. No way was he going to let them know about Jon at this time.

As 3ER maybe he knows how level headed and reasonable Sam is and how loyal he is to Jon. And that's why he spilled the beans to Sam.

Edited August 31, 2017 by anamika

[Bill1978]

7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

This almost guarantees a 2019 release in my opinion.

And now GRRM has some motivation to spoil the ending. I kid, there is no way he will drop Winds of Winter, let alone a 2nd book, before the final season airs.

[Edith]

9 hours ago, MadMouse said:

Again that's not what I'm saying. Per Aemon's speech about men putting love above honor, Jon makes it clear that Ned would always put honor first. He still believes that now and tries to live up to that impossible standard. He thinks Ned was perfect, honorable and good all the way through. And that's what Jon did when it came to Ygritte, honor and duty before love. But soon he'll find out that Ned didn't always make that choice he did put love before honor and duty when it came to Lyanna and him. It didn't lessen him and that choice made Ned an even more honorable person. That will be the moment that allows him move past what issues he has about himself and Dany. 

I read this again and if it comes snarky, thats not my intention.

Didn't Jon choose already love above duty when he decided to save fArya? And I know show is different that the book but if someone endgame is going to be the same in both mediums is Jon.

[Eyes High]

11 hours ago, Minneapple said:

My thought is the longer the material is out there somewhere, the bigger chance it has of being leaked. HBO has dealt with all manner of leaks -- hackers,  networks showing the episode early, script pages and outlines getting out, outdoors filming being spoiled by onlookers. They've become a huge target for people just trying to get anything on Game of Thrones. So as time goes by it becomes more and more likely that this stuff gets out.

I have no doubt that some stuff will get out, but without someone like Lads leaking all the major plot points, much of what happens in S8 will remain secret, just as it did in S6. If it hadn't been for Lads, we would have had no idea about Sansa condemning LF to death and Arya carrying out the deed, for example.

The easiest things to keep secret will be interior scenes shot at Paint Hall with no CGI. A few leaks in S7 came from people who did VFX work for the show. I remember someone told /Freefolk last fall that they had been on a plane and had been watching a guy doing VFX GOT work on his computer, and from his description it was the 7x04 ambush sequence.

 

1 hour ago, Edith said:

Didn't Jon choose already love above duty when he decided to save fArya? And I know show is different that the book but if someone endgame is going to be the same in both mediums is Jon.

Yes, although I think the show has pretty much ruled out a JonxArya endgame (which is what the 1993 outline seemed to contemplate).

[Oscirus]

I suspect the season premiere will be about the Starks getting together one last time before they finally break apart for good and follow their destinies.

[Jewlmc]

On August 29, 2017 at 10:24 PM, domina89 said:

So Jon and Dany are on their way to Winterfell where they should meet up with Sam. That's going to be one seriously awkward conversation...

Jon: "Hey Sam, this is Daenerys Targaryen, my queen and love of my life . Your Grace, this is Samwell Tarly, my bestest friend in the whole world."

Dany: "Nice to meet you, Sam...um, did you say Tarly?"

Sam: "Yes"

Dany: "Do you happen to be related to Randall and Dickon Tarly?"

Sam: "Why yes, that's my father and brother."

Bran: "Her dragon roasted them. It was beautiful."

Dany: "..........."

Jon & Sam: ".........................."

Of course it could end with: 

 

Sam: Good. Now my mother and sister are free from that asshole who treated me like shit and threatened to kill me. I'm a bit sorry for Dickon though....

 

I can't believe this show wanted people to feel sorry for Randall Tarly. They should have had Dickon bend the knee and say he was giving everything to little Sam. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Jewlmc

[Edith]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Yes, although I think the show has pretty much ruled out a JonxArya endgame (which is what the 1993 outline seemed to contemplate).

I'm not talking about Jon/Arya endgame thing. What I'm trying to say is that Jon already chose love above duty in the books, so believing the next time when it comes to Dany he's going to choose love because the first time it was duty doesn't work. 

[MadMouse]

6 hours ago, Edith said:

Didn't Jon choose already love above duty when he decided to save fArya? And I know show is different that the book but if someone endgame is going to be the same in both mediums is Jon.

Yep no doubt and he think's its wrong. That's the heart of the issue, he'll make the choice of love without thinking its wrong because of what Ned did. Of course in the books it will be more complex, but what I'm suggesting is dumbed down show version. 

[Blonde Gator]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I have no doubt that some stuff will get out, but without someone like Lads leaking all the major plot points, much of what happens in S8 will remain secret, just as it did in S6. If it hadn't been for Lads, we would have had no idea about Sansa condemning LF to death and Arya carrying out the deed, for example.

The easiest things to keep secret will be interior scenes shot at Paint Hall with no CGI. A few leaks in S7 came from people who did VFX work for the show. I remember someone told /Freefolk last fall that they had been on a plane and had been watching a guy doing VFX GOT work on his computer, and from his description it was the 7x04 ambush sequence.

 

Yes, although I think the show has pretty much ruled out a JonxArya endgame (which is what the 1993 outline seemed to contemplate).

I've heard about the "Lads" leak, and Frikidoktor.  But I  have no idea of the background.  If you know, and wouldn't mind, would you kindly fill me in?

[oliverwendell]

Quote

I've heard about the "Lads" leak, and Frikidoktor.  But I  have no idea of the background.  If you know, and wouldn't mind, would you kindly fill me in?

 

 

 

 

 0

Also, do we know if either of these two leakers are still associated with the show for Season 8? (Because if they are, I imagine it's pretty likely they will leak again.)

To be honest, I liked the level of spoilage for Season 6. It gave me little nuggets to speculate about. But I didn't like knowing every beat of every episode for season 7, so if we get that level of detail again, I'll go 100% spoiler-free to avoid knowing.

[Blonde Gator]

12 minutes ago, oliverwendell said:

Also, do we know if either of these two leakers are still associated with the show for Season 8? (Because if they are, I imagine it's pretty likely they will leak again.)

To be honest, I liked the level of spoilage for Season 6. It gave me little nuggets to speculate about. But I didn't like knowing every beat of every episode for season 7, so if we get that level of detail again, I'll go 100% spoiler-free to avoid knowing.

You're a better man than I, Gunga Din!

I agree in theory about being spoiler free, but I am SOOOOOO aggravated at GRRM and his glacial pace of writing, and now D&D are doing the same thing, extending the time between seasons, that I've apparently lost my mind and have turned into an active spoiler hunter.   Good luck staying unsullied until 2019.  <---That was depressing to type.

PS.  I know nothing, Gunga Din, about leakers.  Alas.

[Eyes High]

44 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

I've heard about the "Lads" leak, and Frikidoktor.  But I  have no idea of the background.  If you know, and wouldn't mind, would you kindly fill me in?

Not at all:

So in September-October of 2016, a poster by the name of /Awayforthelads (Lads) showed up on /Gameofthrones (a subreddit) and casually started spoiling Season 7. He made it to /Freefolk (the big spoiler-friendly GOT subreddit) and provided more detailed spoilers: Viserion's death, Jon/Dany romance, Arya killing LF, Cersei getting pregnant and miscarrying, wight hunt, etc. etc. /Freefolk is notoriously skeptical of self-proclaimed leakers, and they really hated a lot of his spoilers, so he was decried as a fraud. Then user /dragonmcx decided to get clever and faked a bunch of screenshots where Lads admitted to having made the whole thing up. /Dragonmcx eventually owned up to their deception, but by then Lads was long gone and had deleted his account. By the time /Awayforthelads disappeared, filming location spoilers were coming out that seemed to confirm Lads' information.

A Reddit poster called /Awayforthelads2 (Lads2) surfaced several months later claiming to be Lads. As proof, Lads2 offered four script pages: Arya massacring the Freys, Tyrion/Cersei at the dragonpit, Sansa and Arya executing LF, and Jon/Dany's conversation after the wight hunt. Lads2 provided other additional details that Lads had not: the Sandor/Brienne conversation about Arya, e.g. There was a lot of drama over whether Lads2 was telling the truth, whether he had faked the script pages, etc. etc. Eventually, Lads2 disappeared as well. When the Season 7 trailers came out, any doubt over Lads2 having the goods was erased.

As a result of Lads/Lads2, for folks in the know at /Freefolk, the entire season was spoiled ahead of time. 

On to Frikidoctor: 

In 2016, Frikidoctor started spoiling the first few episodes of Season 6 of GOT on Youtube before they aired in detail, information he got from a source. HBO got wise before too long, sniffed out his source and shut his videos down by 6x03 or so, at which point he stopped posting anything other than spoilers from other sources. However, in 2017, he seemed to have found another source who knew what would happen in the episodes before they aired, so he provided detailed S7 episode summaries before the episodes aired; he cited Lads' spoilers, but there was stuff in his summaries that Lads never mentioned. Because of Lads/Lads2's leaks, though, there wasn't much information that wasn't already known by the spoiler /Freefolk community. Unlike in Season 6, HBO ignored Frikidoctor and let him keep his videos up.

Bottom line: Lads/Lads2 spoiled Season 7 in detail several months in advance, thanks to having gotten his hands on the scripts. Frikidoctor spoils the episodes much closer to airing.

 

27 minutes ago, oliverwendell said:

Also, do we know if either of these two leakers are still associated with the show for Season 8? (Because if they are, I imagine it's pretty likely they will leak again.)

Frikidoctor will probably be back, but he didn't release his own spoilers until the season actually started. He posts a ton of "spoiler" videos in the off-season, but none of it's his own material; he's just reposting other people's spoilers. So I wouldn't wait for a spoiler dump from Frikidoctor until 2019.

As for Lads/Lads2? I'm guessing he's long gone. He seemed pretty unconcerned about the risk getting caught by HBO, though, so who knows?

Edited August 31, 2017 by Eyes High

[Blonde Gator]

Thank you, Eyes High. 

I'd read (way after the fact) the Reddit stuff which was linked here a short while back.  I don't follow Reddit at all, in fact, I'm clueless when it comes to the difference between Reddit and a subReddit. 

It would seem that the script pages must have been the real deal, and confirmed the earlier leaks.  I'd guess someone w/in HBO or the GOT production crew got their hands on a script, and either sold it or leaked it for fame.  It's crazy what some people will do for money and/or fame, isn't it?  If HBO never announced they caught anyone, they probably haven't, so it's likely there will be further leaks.  And of course, the infamous hack.  Dangerous times we live in (she says after having fraudulent charges show up 4 separate times in the past year and a half). 

I have always taken spoilers with a grain of salt, because seriously, some of them are so bloody stupid, I mean a wight hunt?!?!  Little did I know!!!  Gah. 

Thanks again for the info, greatly appreciated.

[Hana Chan]

I've got no objections to being spoiled since I went into this as a book reader first so it's not like I didn't have a pretty clear idea of what was going to happen.

The first episode should be interesting because we're going to see all the forces rallying in the North and I can't wait to see all these hidebound northern lords faced with the Unsullied, the Dothraki (who hopefully will find some winter wear leathers before they go) and a pair of dragons. I think that there's going to be a little bit of snipping about Jon bending the knee and no longer calling himself KITN, but that should be pretty short lived. If all the Starks stand united behind Jon, that should get everyone in line. Not to mention Jon pointing out that if the North insists on standing alone, that it will die alone. Independence isn't going to matter if they're all dead.

And I need Bran to tell Jon about his true parentage immediately. The emotional fallout will be tremendous. How and if he tells Dany is going to be interesting as well.

Gonna be a long, long wait. *grumbles*

4 hours ago, Jewlmc said:

They should have had Dickon bend the knee and say he was giving everything to little Sam. 

He's probably going to get it all anyway now that there's no one else in the family to claim it and the odds are that the NW isn't going to exist for much longer. Hope that Gilly likes the idea of being Lady Tarly when all this is over.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Hana Chan

[Eyes High]

37 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Thank you, Eyes High. 

I'd read (way after the fact) the Reddit stuff which was linked here a short while back.  I don't follow Reddit at all, in fact, I'm clueless when it comes to the difference between Reddit and a subReddit. 

It would seem that the script pages must have been the real deal, and confirmed the earlier leaks.  I'd guess someone w/in HBO or the GOT production crew got their hands on a script, and either sold it or leaked it for fame.  It's crazy what some people will do for money and/or fame, isn't it?  If HBO never announced they caught anyone, they probably haven't, so it's likely there will be further leaks.  And of course, the infamous hack.  Dangerous times we live in (she says after having fraudulent charges show up 4 separate times in the past year and a half). 

I think Lads/Lads2 said that a friend gave him the scripts. Judging from his knowledge of S7, he must have had the complete scripts.

I'm positive the hackers who hacked HBO were after S8 scripts and S7 episodes. The joke turned out to be on them, though, because they couldn't get the S7 episodes, and they got nothing on S8 (as they admitted in their own ransom note).

For those who want to be spoiled, /Freefolk's probably your best bet. If you want leaks, /Freefolk is the best place to look; in fact, leakers in the past have often come directly to /Freefolk to post spoilers (as have many fake leakers, so be warned). WOTW is the best source for location filming spoilers, although most of that trickles down to /Freefolk. WOTW also posts things like casting calls for extras and smaller parts, some exclusive plot spoilers (nothing really earth-shattering, though), and actors getting cast. Los Siete Reinos posts Spain location filming spoilers in Spanish, although that info usually makes its way to WOTW.

For those who want to avoid S8 spoilers, I would recommend steering clear of WOTW, /Freefolk, and Los Siete Reinos for the next, oh, 18 months or so. The subreddits /Gameofthrones and /ASOIAF are pretty good about keeping leaks out of discussions except where clearly labeled, although there are always jerks who post leaks under the guise of "predictions."

If there is a big S8 leak, though, and I'm not convinced that there will be, I imagine it would make all the big geek fansites, maybe even the mainstream media, so ultimately I don't know that there's any surefire way to avoid getting spoiled for S8.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Eyes High

[Raachel2008]

2 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

And I need Bran to tell Jon about his true parentage immediately. The emotional fallout will be tremendous. How and if he tells Dany is going to be interesting as well.

Those days Bran has all the tact of a Panzer tank, I wouldn't be surprised if tells Jon the truth in FRONT of Danaerys and/or others

Edited August 31, 2017 by Raachel2008

[SimoneS]

With this show's track record, Bran and Sam will probably tell Jon off screen leaving us puzzled about his strange behavior only for us to finally realize that he knows the truth.

[Raachel2008]

4 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

With this show's track record, Bran and Sam will probably tell Jon off screen leaving us puzzled about his strange behavior only for us to finally realize that he knows the truth.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[OhOkayWhat]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

With this show's track record, Bran and Sam will probably tell Jon off screen leaving us puzzled about his strange behavior only for us to finally realize that he knows the truth.

If there is a dramatic reason to hide it from the audience, they will do that. But I do not see right now any reason to do that. In the other hand, imagine they shows us Sansa, Arya and Bran plotting the scene before Petyr last scene, ruining it for most the audience... they surely know how to engage the audience in an emotional journey sometimes.

Edited September 1, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[MadMouse]

So its kinda hard to speculate with zero information. I've seen tons of comments this season was total fan service, character reunions, interactions, etc. So what would your biggest fan service moment be for next season?

Mine, Ghost and Dany.

When Jon and Dany reach Winterfell I've sure they'll be tension, so Jon's off dealing with his "loyal" bannermen. Dany explores the castle, specifically the Godswood where she encounters Ghost. She's frightened but Ghost instead just walks up to her. Then you have either or both Sansa and Arya, say that direwolves are better judges of characters than people but they're also connected to the Starks. And than some dialogue that it seems like you've "captured Ghost's heart"

Or like my gf said after boatsex, Ghost is going to figure out she's pregnant first and he'll probably die saving her.

[ParadoxLost]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

With this show's track record, Bran and Sam will probably tell Jon off screen leaving us puzzled about his strange behavior only for us to finally realize that he knows the truth.

I think its extremely likely Bran and Sam will tell Jon on screen.  It will be one of those "artistic" mute scenes that are code for not being able to get the dialogue quite right.  Jon will do his hillside brooding face and then Dany will be puzzled by his behavior for half the season when Jon keeps it to himself but breaks of the romantic relationship.

[Blonde Gator]

22 minutes ago, doram said:

I really need to see Dany pet Jon's wolf. 

Yes, in her white Dragon outfit that she wore North of the Wall.  I'd make that my Wallpaper for the next ten years. 

[YaddaYadda]

10 hours ago, MadMouse said:

Or like my gf said after boatsex, Ghost is going to figure out she's pregnant first and he'll probably die saving her.

I'd rather Ghost stays off screen. Off screen direwolves mean living direwolves. 

I always thought Summer and Ghost would be the ones to make it to the end. I thought that was the whole reason his name was Summer. And Ghost is part of Jon's identity. But this is a show where the dragons are more important, so killing off the direwolves is fair game.

8 hours ago, doram said:

I really need to see Dany pet Jon's wolf. 

Pretty sure she already did.

[GraceK]

5 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

8 hours ago, doram said:

I really need to see Dany pet Jon's wolf. 

Pretty sure she already did.

::snicker::

[MrsR]

Quote

Mine, Ghost and Dany.

I won't be happy until Ghost rides Drogon.

[MadMouse]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

Pretty sure she already did.

Two Targaryen whores Ned, on the open seas! Hide the fermented crab or soon she'll be pregnant. Nedddd.