Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[MarySNJ]

2 hours ago, toomuchtv47 said:

After seeing the part with Arya running through the tunnels and reading what people think she's running from, I can't help thinking fire. I don't see her being afraid of a person after seeing what she can do (plus she's armed) but what if she's running from something she can't fight? Maybe she's trying to outrun a fire that's raging.

Of course, this could be completely wrong and there's a good possibility that I've forgotten a key piece of information but that's my guess.

There’s a version of the trailer that someone on Reddit posted which vastly lightens things up so its much easier to see the details. Someone pointed out that there are two humanoid figures (live people or wights/white walkers?) behind Arya when she running. Who or what those figures are is unclear. 

I think they could be either wights/White Walkers chasing her, or scared humans running after her trying to find a way out.  I don’t think its the night king.

Edited March 7, 2019 by MarySNJ

[SimoneS]

I think that Arya is being chased through the crypts by wights. I expect that they are the escape route for the noncombatants. It is the only way of getting Bran, Varys, Gilly, etc out before Winterfell is burnt to a crisp.

[Brn2bwild]

45 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I think that Arya is being chased through the crypts by wights. I expect that they are the escape route for the noncombatants. It is the only way of getting Bran, Varys, Gilly, etc out before Winterfell is burnt to a crisp.

I wouldn't be surprised if Arya (while scared) was purposely trying to lure the White Walkers down to the crypt.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 3/5/2019 at 5:17 PM, Eyes High said:

And yes, that's not historically accurate, but that's hardly the worst of GOT's historical sins.

Fortunately, this isn't our world's Middle Ages, so anachronistic doesn't really apply. They have the order of maesters, whose scientific and medical knowledge is ahead of that in Europe during the Dark Ages (as GRRM pointed out when talking about how death in childbirth is less common in the Seven Kingdoms than it was in the Middle Ages), so they could easily know that alcohol is bad for babies.

[spaceghostess]

13 hours ago, Leila6 said:

He also said Rose came up with a ton of possible endings, and none of those were right either. This leads me to believe the ending might be kind of cray cray. If it’s nothing obvious or semi-obvious or even decently guessable, what the heck is it?

Also, that interview was hilarious and adorable.

Hah, he's full of it; he's being a good boy and giving nothing away. But ITA that the interview was extremely charming (and Kit looked lovely).

[SimoneS]

20 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Exactly. It's also worth mentioning that Kit lied through his teeth in interviews for months about Jon's resurrection. 

Yep, and some people swore they would never watch the show again because Kit lied. The more the actors claim that the ending is a complete surprise and none of them guessed it, the  more predictable I think that it is. The only one who said something different was Iain Glen which is why I think he came close to telling the truth.

Edited March 7, 2019 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Yep, and some people swore they would never watch the show again because Kit lied. The more the actors claim that the ending is a complete surprise and none of them guessed it, the  more predictable I think that is. The only one who said something different was Iain Glen which is why I think he came close to telling the truth.

Yes. D&D have also said that they're aiming for the finale to be received like the Breaking Bad finale was (where the argument was whether it was an A or an A+ finale). While the episodes leading up to the finale were very dark, the finale itself was very satisfying, uplifting, and crowd-pleasing. If that's what D&D are going for, I don't think we're in for the sort of heartbreaking, shocking craziness the actors are hyping.

And really, the actors promoting the season are in a bind. All they can really say about the ending is that it's shocking and bittersweet. They can't say they were happy or upset about the ending, lest fans read into it. They can't say the ending is happy or sad, but they can say the ending is "bittersweet," some undetermined, ambiguous mix of happy and sad. They can't say it's satisfying, lest fans read into it and assume that the ending is happy. And they can't promise the fans will love it, lest fans read into it and assume the ending is happy. So we have heard (and we're going to hear) from actors the same thing over and over again: bittersweet, shocking, surprising, etc. I'd take it all with a heaping tablespoon of salt.

[Hana Chan]

I think that as far as promotion goes at this stage, the actors have no choice but to carefully mislead the audience about what's going to happen. Otherwise they are going to inadvertently give away major plot points. When Kit was doing promo after Jon's death he was misleading the fans, but he wasn't really lying. Jon did die and was seriously dead. What he didn't say was that Jon was going to be resurrected by magic. 

We're all trying to read the tea leaves about what's going to happen based on the barest of clues. We try to figure out who was filming when to guess how many episodes their character will appear in (and guess what the longevity odds might be) and we're parsing every word. Some actors may be trolling us, while others are deliberately and carefully guiding us away from guessing at what may happen. I think that the show runners have very carefully worked out how the cast should answer questions and what is safe for them to talk about (like Sophie talking about Sansa's new "armor") and letting the fans run in circles trying to figure out just what all this means. On YouTube, there's a veritable industry of fans trying to figure out just what these "spoilers" might mean.

As far as the bittersweet ending, I just think that's a given. The one thing that we're certain of is that the series is going to end with a lot of favorite character dying, either in the war against the Night King or the war for the Iron Throne. I expect many Sunday nights spent ugly crying because one of my favorites bit it even if the show ends close to how I might expect it.

[spaceghostess]

52 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

I expect many Sunday nights spent ugly crying because one of my favorites bit it even if the show ends close to how I might expect it.

 

^This.^ I've been going over personal worst-case scenario(s), hoping this little exercise will inure me to the DEEP HURTING that's sure to come. Don't know why I'm bothering when I know the only remotely effective coping mechanism will be Cersei-level quantities of wine.

[GraceK]

https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/07/night-king-game-of-thrones-interview/?utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_entertainmentweekly&utm_content=like2buy&utm_term=curalate_like2buy

Very interesting interview with Vladimir Furdik about season 8 and the Night King. It gives a lot more validity to Boatbabys leaks a few months ago when she said we will find out that the WW have a specific motivation for what they are doing that ties everything together.

Edited March 7, 2019 by GraceK

[spaceghostess]

42 minutes ago, GraceK said:

https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/07/night-king-game-of-thrones-interview/?utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_entertainmentweekly&utm_content=like2buy&utm_term=curalate_like2buy

Very interesting interview with Vladimir Furdik about season 8 and the Night King. It gives a lot more validity to Boatbabys leaks a few months ago when she said we will find out that the WW have a specific motivation for what they are doing that ties everything together.

Yikes. This makes me think of Jon Snow jumping on the (Night King) grenade to save humankind. Which would be sad (to me), but kind of predictable? So I hope they don't go there.

ETA: The fact that people can distinguish--and prefer--one Night King actor from another is amazing to me. I'll have to rewatch and compare the performances, because I was completely clueless about there being two portrayals.

Edited March 7, 2019 by spaceghostess

[Happy Harpy]

There definitely was some stare down between Jon and the NK, so he seems like the obvious solution. Bran and Dany would be others.

But I think the WTF moments or surprises are more prone to happen with that plot, so my money is on Baby Sam.

[Eyes High]

24 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

There definitely was some stare down between Jon and the NK, so he seems like the obvious solution. Bran and Dany would be others.

But I think the WTF moments or surprises are more prone to happen with that plot, so my money is on Baby Sam.

Wasn't it a popular fan theory that the whole reason the WWs started their march on the south was to get Little Sam back?

I remember that D&D promised at some point that the NK would never speak, but I don't know if that applies to the WWs. I don't know how we could get an explanation of the WWs' motives without some kind of communication.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Eyes High

[spaceghostess]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Wasn't it a popular fan theory that the whole reason the WWs started their march on the south was to get Little Sam back?

I remember that D&D promised at some point that the NK would never speak, but I don't know if that applies to the WWs. I don't know how we could get an explanation of the WWs' motives without some kind of communication.

Guess they'd have to use Bran (via visions) and/or Sam (via those books he stole from the Maesterbrary) as expositors on NK's behalf.

[GraceK]

9 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Wasn't it a popular fan theory that the whole reason the WWs started their march on the south was to get Little Sam back?

Yeah but that doesn’t make sense because we saw the WW in the very first episode before little Sam was even born. They were already marching . 

I don’t think little Sam has anything to do with it to be honest . I think Bran is far more important. And Jon . The direwolves being born, the dragons, all of it happening around the same time makes more sense than little Sam having something to do with the NK.  He wasn’t even a sperm nugget in Craster when when the first WW appeared in the first episode .

Edited March 7, 2019 by GraceK

[nikma]

Yeah. It's Bran.

[MadameKillerB]

My Sunday group rewatch won't be able to catch up before the new season starts but I'm greedily consuming any and all GOT-related theories and backstories...I'm super interested in the history from the books only to help explain show character motivations.

As for the trailer and Arya speculation- what if she's running to get someplace quickly before something happens...like she needs something and that face is not really fear but desperation about getting something? I don't know if I'm explaining this the way it works in my head so sorry for that. I was watching some YouTuber last night talking about lightening up the dark trailer and seeing other people behind her. She looks back at one point. What if she is trying to lead people somewhere safe? I dunno. I think it's too "easy" to say that she's running from a wight. But who knows really?!

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

I don’t think little Sam has anything to do with it to be honest .

I don't think that Little Sam is important as a "person", but back in S3 it did seem that the WW Sam killed was going for him. He was born to be a WW, maybe he's a missing piece. Now that Craster is dead, the NK can't get new WWs (or can he?).

Maisie said that Arya's loyalty can be her downfall and that "once she gets on a mission she literally will not stop until she dies". I don't think that Arya dies, but her run in the corridors could be indeed a part of one of those missions.

Also, according to the FF sleuths, it seems that her dialogue at the beginning of the trailer takes place in the forge, and she would be talking to Gendry. Somehow, it makes me believe their reunion won't be emotional (even if this isn't their reunion scene, she has her No One poker face). 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[LadyChaos]

How certain are we of the 'spoilers' that were leaked?  I know last time I was poking around the thread everyone was certain about the leak of Tyrion betraying Dany and Jon? Do we still believe that?  What else do we know?

And how far do you all think TPTB would go to cover up the truth about this season and what happens?

[Eyes High]

5 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Also, according to the FF sleuths, it seems that her dialogue at the beginning of the trailer takes place in the forge, and she would be talking to Gendry. Somehow, it makes me believe their reunion won't be emotional (even if this isn't their reunion scene, she has her No One poker face). 

There is speculation on Freefolk that she's being chased by a reanimated Gendry, which...ouch.

I think that the person she's talking to is in fact Gendry. On Freefolk they matched background details from Gendry at the forge to the background when Arya was speaking to the unseen person. I agree that this conversation does seem unemotional with Arya in her badass mode, but maybe she'll thaw the way she did with Hot Pie.

47 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

How certain are we of the 'spoilers' that were leaked?  I know last time I was poking around the thread everyone was certain about the leak of Tyrion betraying Dany and Jon? Do we still believe that?  What else do we know?

And how far do you all think TPTB would go to cover up the truth about this season and what happens?

Friki, a reliable leaker from previous seasons, has info that the Dragonpit 8x06 scene filmed in Seville was Tyrion's trial for some unspecified treason against the Starks, but not against Dany, and that Tyrion is guilty of the crime of which he's being accused this time around. According to the source, Tyrion acknowledges his guilt, is condemned as guilty and is executed in a scene filmed in Belfast. So there's that.

(Friki enjoyed a recent boost in credibility when he accurately predicted details of the trailer shortly before it aired from a source. However, the trailer source and the Dragonpit source are different people, so one's accuracy doesn't automatically entail the other's. So there's that as well.)

In the runup to S8 airing, Bryan Cogman has said that S8 will get into Tyrion's Lannister issues. Peter Dinklage has also talked about Tyrion trying to figure out who he is. And in the EW.com cover shoot, Tyrion is wearing an outfit that for the first time in a long time looks like the Lannister outfits he used to wear back when he was a loyal(ish) member of the family. So regardless of whether or not Friki is full of it, it looks like Tyrion will definitely reckon with his identity as a Lannister. Could that take the form of betraying the Starks? Absolutely, I think.

With all that said, on the other side of things, Peter Dinklage teased Tyrion's death pretty blatantly in two interviews in the fall, talking about how death can be a great escape and also how Tyrion will have a beautiful ending whether or not it's tragic (in more or less those words!). A VFX guy joked at the creative Emmys that they weren't going to reveal in which episode Tyrion dies. And then with this trailer, you have quick cuts between Dany looking resigned, Tyrion looking up beseechingly and Drogon launching flames. So obviously everyone at HBO wants you to think that Tyrion dies, and usually if they want you to think that, it's because it's not going to happen. And the last time HBO did that kind of suggestive cutting in a GOT trailer for Tyrion, it was for Season 6 (Tyrion looking at a dragon/a dragon opening his mouth to launch flame), and it was done to troll the audience.

To make things even muddier, Friki's source said some things about the Seville filming that don't entirely add up. For example, Friki's source denied that Tobias Menzies (Edmure) was in Seville to film even though he seems to have been spotted getting off a plane with the rest of the returning cast, and we now know that he is in fact in S8. Friki's source has also insisted Joe Dempsie didn't film anything for the episode in Seville even when Joe Dempsie has implied in media interviews long preceding Friki's leaks that he did. 

So, long story short, we don't know, and we probably won't know until the finale airs.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

How certain are we of the 'spoilers' that were leaked?  I know last time I was poking around the thread everyone was certain about the leak of Tyrion betraying Dany and Jon? Do we still believe that?  What else do we know?

And how far do you all think TPTB would go to cover up the truth about this season and what happens?

This article mentions Tyrion as being among those present at the Battle of Winterfell: https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/04/game-of-thrones-season-8-battle/

Of course, the writer might be being imprecise.

[SimoneS]

10 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

How certain are we of the 'spoilers' that were leaked?  I know last time I was poking around the thread everyone was certain about the leak of Tyrion betraying Dany and Jon? Do we still believe that?  What else do we know?

I go back and forth about Tyrion's betrayal. I think that I believe that it will happen, but it still seems farfetched to me.

[Edith]

[whateverdgaf]

Interview with Lena, Gwen, Maisie and Sophie.

https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/female-stars-game-of-thrones-season-8-interview

Reddit post with key quotes.

[Happy Harpy]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I go back and forth about Tyrion's betrayal. I think that I believe that it will happen, but it still seems farfetched to me.

I want to believe it happens, since I don't think they will kill/destroy more than one of the Big Four fan favorite and I prefer Arya/Jon/Dany to him, but I'm getting stuck on the reasons. I have yet to see an acceptable rationale for one of the most intelligent men in Westeros thinking it's a good idea to undermine the only people on Planetos able to stop a zombie apocalypse.

[spaceghostess]

22 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

I want to believe it happens, since I don't think they will kill/destroy more than one of the Big Four fan favorite and I prefer Arya/Jon/Dany to him, but I'm getting stuck on the reasons. I have yet to see an acceptable rationale for one of the most intelligent men in Westeros thinking it's a good idea to undermine the only people on Planetos able to stop a zombie apocalypse.

Apologies in advance if I'm completely screwing up or not understanding timelines around Winterfell and King's Landing battles or if I've missed some glaringly obvious information.  But can we assume that a potential betrayal would necessarily happen in relation to defeating the Army of the Dead? I think Tyrion gets the big picture as far at that's concerned and agree that it makes zero sense for him to undermine the fight against it. But what if that threat is neutralized (and D & J survive it)  and the betrayal is to do with helping Cersei when it's time to take her down? Because Tyrion thinks she's still pregnant? Or (stupidly) succumbs to some last shred of family "honor"? He is pretty self-hating/-destructive; I could see misplaced loyalty being his downfall.

My theory is that Dany and Jon both survive the Winterfell battle and die later--one in King's Landing (and this could tie into a Tyrion betrayal)  and the other at Winterfell--but that's for another post.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

I want to believe it happens, since I don't think they will kill/destroy more than one of the Big Four fan favorite and I prefer Arya/Jon/Dany to him, but I'm getting stuck on the reasons. I have yet to see an acceptable rationale for one of the most intelligent men in Westeros thinking it's a good idea to undermine the only people on Planetos able to stop a zombie apocalypse.

Exactly. I find Tyrion's motivation to betray the Starks inexplicable. The only plausible reason I have been able to come up with is that he does something terrible to save Dany who he is in love with, e.g., maybe he sets off the wildfire at King's Landing killing thousands of people to save Dany's army. I am just reaching here.

[Happy Harpy]

58 minutes ago, spaceghostess said:

Apologies in advance if I'm completely screwing up or not understanding timelines around Winterfell and King's Landing battles or if I've missed some glaringly obvious information.  But can we assume that a potential betrayal would necessarily happen in relation to defeating the Army of the Dead? I think Tyrion gets the big picture as far at that's concerned and agree that it makes zero sense for him to undermine the fight against it. But what if that threat is neutralized (and D & J survive it)  and the betrayal is to do with helping Cersei when it's time to take her down? Because Tyrion thinks she's still pregnant? Or (stupidly) succumbs to some last shred of family "honor"? He is pretty self-hating/-destructive; I could see misplaced loyalty being his downfall.

My theory is that Dany and Jon both survive the Winterfell battle and die later--one in King's Landing (and this could tie into a Tyrion betrayal)  and the other at Winterfell--but that's for another post.

From the reliable-ish filming info we got, it seems that the battle of WF ends on a loss for the Stargaryen alliance, or a tie at best; WF is burned down, Melisandre turns part of the AOTD against the NK but she doesn't kill him or destroy his whole army (there are set photos of Melisandre fighting extras who wear WW gear, with other non-dead characters wielding flaming swords).

It is certain that the WF battle (8x03) is before KL, because of which director was filming where. So the NK is not done with when KL happens.

The waters were troubled lately, mostly because Brian Cogman, one of the writers, called the WF battle, "the final battle". But they did have to show some battle footage for the trailer and since everybody has been expecting a battle in WF since the Wall has come down, it could very well only be PR smokescreen (I wouldn't be surprised if some footage from the KL battle actually found its way in the trailer, but we'll see).

Friki, the one who came up with the leak about Tyrion's treason, stated explicitly that Tyrion betrayed "The Starks", not "the alliance" or "Daenerys". He also stated that Tyrion's betrayal would be uncovered after the fact in a scene where Dany, Jon, Arya, Sansa and Bran would be present. Since Jon and Dany are there for that reveal, they can't be dead as a result of his betrayal.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[spaceghostess]

38 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

From the reliable-ish filming info we got, it seems that the battle of WF ends on a loss for the Stargaryen alliance, or a tie at best; WF is burned down, Melisandre turns part of the AOTD against the NK but she doesn't kill him or destroy his whole army (there are set photos of Melisandre fighting extras who wear WW gear, with other non-dead characters wielding flaming swords).

It is certain that the WF battle (8x03) is before KL, because of which director was filming where. So the NK is not done with when KL happens.

The waters were troubled lately, mostly because Brian Cogman, one of the writers, called the WF battle, "the final battle". But they did have to show some battle footage for the trailer and since everybody has been expecting a battle in WF since the Wall has come down, it could very well only be PR smokescreen (I wouldn't be surprised if some footage from the KL battle actually found its way in the trailer, but we'll see).

Friki, the one who came up with the leak about Tyrion's treason, stated explicitly that Tyrion betrayed "The Starks", not "the alliance" or "Daenerys". He also stated that Tyrion's betrayal would be uncovered after the fact in a scene where Dany, Jon, Arya, Sansa and Bran would be present. Since Jon and Dany are there for that reveal, they can't be dead as a result of his betrayal.

Ahh, thank you so much for this! I didn't know about the Melisandre scenes and I did read the Friki stuff but managed to totally ignore that he's supposedly betraying the Starks specifically. Yeah, I really can't make sense of how that would happen. Curiouser and curiouser . . .

[nikma]

Good thing is that we will see this, very soon. 

[LadyChaos]

I too, have a difficult time finding a legitimate reason for Tyrion to turn on Dany or the Starks.  I just finished a rewatch of the entire series in the past month and the only way I could see him turning on Dany or Jon is if he begged them to spare Jamie's life, and they don't -OR- Bran is the target that the Night King is after so he hands Bran over to the Night King.  Although, to be honest, I totally expect that all the Lannister's will be dead by 806. 

Also, is there  anything we have that might suggest that Winterfell is intentionally set on fire during the battle of Winterfell to kill White Walkers or burn all the dead?

Edited March 9, 2019 by LadyChaos

[Eyes High]

13 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

I too, have a difficult time finding a legitimate reason for Tyrion to turn on Dany or the Starks.  I just finished a rewatch of the entire series in the past month and the only way I could see him turning on Dany or Jon is if he begged them to spare Jamie's life, and they don't -OR- Bran is the target that the Night King is after so he hands Bran over to the Night King.  Although, to be honest, I totally expect that all the Lannister's will be dead by 806. 

Well, Peter Dinklage seems to have filmed a scene in Seville from 8x06, so Tyrion at least makes it to 8x06, although he won't survive the episode if Friki is to be believed.

The thing to remember in all of this is that ultimately, D&D have to get Tyrion to his book endgame, and Book Tyrion is a very different animal from TV Tyrion: by ADWD, he's a very dark, almost villainous character, and he could spiral even further by the end of the book series. If Book Tyrion ends up in a bad place, and if D&D have to give Tyrion a total character makeover in Season 8 to get him to where Book Tyrion ends up, then that's what's going to happen, regardless of whether or not it makes sense given everything that came before. I think it may not look at all logical or organic if D&D do take Tyrion to villain territory to get him to his book endgame, but I guess that's on D&D for whitewashing Tyrion as much as they have for the past seven seasons. 

Peter Dinklage has promised a "beautiful" ending for his character, even if it's tragic ("It ends beautifully for my character whether it be tragic or not"), so hopefully even if Tyrion does turn to betrayal or even outright villainy, he gets a few fine speeches in and an ending worthy of the character, and Peter Dinklage collects yet another Emmy.

Just beyond Tyrion, though, it's hard for me to picture any of Jon/Dany/Tyrion/Arya/Bran settling down to any kind of normal existence. They've gone through the fire (literally in Dany's case), lost siblings, lost parents, raised armies, fought deathless warriors, practiced magic, had magic practiced on them, gone beyond the Wall, gone to Essos, traveled through time, trained with wizards and wildlings and Dothraki and assassin cults, ridden dragons, have killed people they loved, died in Jon's case, experienced a sort of metaphysical death in Bran's...

And after all that, they're just going to go home, marry a nice girl or guy, run a castle/govern Westeros, and that's it?

Edited March 9, 2019 by Eyes High

[nikma]

www.hbo.com/schedule?focusId=811555 
801 is 54 minutes.

www.hbo.com/schedule?focusId=811556
802 is 58 minutes.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

but I guess that's on D&D for whitewashing Tyrion as much as they have for the past seven seasons. 

Cannot agree more.

I think, they dropped hints along the way, but nothing going close to book Tyrion.

[LadyChaos]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Well, Peter Dinklage seems to have filmed a scene in Seville from 8x06, so Tyrion at least makes it to 8x06, although he won't survive the episode if Friki is to be believed.

The thing to remember in all of this is that ultimately, D&D have to get Tyrion to his book endgame, and Book Tyrion is a very different animal from TV Tyrion

Why does he have to have the book ending?  I thought TPTB we very clear that they intend to have a different ending than the book, so that they don't spoil the end of the book series.

[ElizaD]

2 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Why does he have to have the book ending?  I thought TPTB we very clear that they intend to have a different ending than the book, so that they don't spoil the end of the book series.

The most commonly mentioned quote has been that they're basically taking different roads to the same place, which heavily implies that the ending will indeed be the same for the big players - so, for example, Book Sansa won't be marrying Ramsay (which ought to be a life-changing experience from a character POV), but since he's dead plotwise she's now perfectly free to move to the same book ending, whether as corpse or single lady or Tyrion's wifey. If the showrunners had ever said that the ending will be different, I expect the book fandom wouldn't need to talk about how they personally believe the show and books are two different animals now. But I've never seen an actual quote used in those arguments that would say the ending will be different so the show won't spoil the books. Only readers insisting that it must be the case because of stuff like Dorne. For most, I think the ending will be seen as being the same, with more or less acceptable adaptation changes, as long as the Starks/Dany/Tyrion (and Cersei/Jaime) get their GRRM-plotted endings.

[Eyes High]

38 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Why does he have to have the book ending?  I thought TPTB we very clear that they intend to have a different ending than the book, so that they don't spoil the end of the book series.

There are multiple interviews where the opposite have been implied. D&D also said recently that they won’t be revealing what in the show is from the unpublished books and what they made up, which wouldn’t be necessary if they were going the different ending route. The endings will be different for the minor characters (and GRRM has said as much), but the major characters will have the same endings in both mediums.

[spaceghostess]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

www.hbo.com/schedule?focusId=811555 
801 is 54 minutes.

www.hbo.com/schedule?focusId=811556
802 is 58 minutes.

Yeesh. Skimpy runtimes considering we've only got 6 eps. I guess the Battle of Winterfell will be one of the "feature-length" eps and maybe 806 will be long, too, but I'm disappointed that any of them are running under an hour. Harrumph.

[Eyes High]

Updated HBO.com runtimes:

8x03: 60 minutes

8x04: 78 minutes

8x05: 80 minutes

8x06: 80 minutes

...Apart from 8x03, that roughly aligns with what we heard a while ago. Sophie told Hibberd during filming that 8x03 was supposedly going to run 90 minutes, so if 60 minutes is the episode time, I’d be curious to know where the other 30 minutes ended up. 

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

And after all that, they're just going to go home, marry a nice girl or guy, run a castle/govern Westeros, and that's it?

Adventures are exciting to watch but less to actually live. Peace, freedom and comfort are things human beings get so easily used to, they quickly take them for granted. Which usually leads them to lose it all again.

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I think it may not look at all logical or organic if D&D do take Tyrion to villain territory to get him to his book endgame, but I guess that's on D&D for whitewashing Tyrion as much as they have for the past seven seasons. 

They certainly knew how Tyrion would end by S6-S7, so I believe they adopted this characterization on purpose. For example, they had an opportunity for Tyrion to slip a scathing remark about the KL people when discussing the city with Jon in 7x07. It wouldn't have been out of place, since Tyrion would be reminiscing the last time he was there "officially". They didn't. Now, it depends if they did it for maximum "gotcha" or because of the nature, motivation and other particulars of his betrayal. If it's the latter, it could be logical and organic. I do think there will be a bit of "gotcha" at the very least.

29 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Sophie told Hibberd during filming that 8x03 was supposedly going to run 90 minutes, so if 60 minutes is the episode time, I’d be curious to know where the other 30 minutes ended up. 

LOTR-like special DVD editions? Which I'll buy sooner than I'll watch the prequel.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[Wouter]

23 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

From the reliable-ish filming info we got, it seems that the battle of WF ends on a loss for the Stargaryen alliance, or a tie at best; WF is burned down, Melisandre turns part of the AOTD against the NK but she doesn't kill him or destroy his whole army (there are set photos of Melisandre fighting extras who wear WW gear, with other non-dead characters wielding flaming swords).

It is not certain Winterfell gets burned down. There was a serious fire on the set, but it hasn't been confirmed Winterfell was completely destroyed. It's a large structure with two defensive walls. It's possible the fire is started by the defenders.

It's unlikely that the alliance will lose the battle, yet most of the characters (and a sizable part of the army and both dragons, presumably) escape to fight again at or near KL. If the NK wins, it should be game over. So even if Winterfell does get burned down with heavy losses to northern, Vale and Targaryen armies, the NK should suffer equivalent losses or lose control of (most of) his wights or else he would be unstoppable.

[Wouter]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

W

The thing to remember in all of this is that ultimately, D&D have to get Tyrion to his book endgame, and Book Tyrion is a very different animal from TV Tyrion: by ADWD, he's a very dark, almost villainous character, and he could spiral even further by the end of the book series. If Book Tyrion ends up in a bad place, and if D&D have to give Tyrion a total character makeover in Season 8 to get him to where Book Tyrion ends up, then that's what's going to happen, regardless of whether or not it makes sense given everything that came before. I think it may not look at all logical or organic if D&D do take Tyrion to villain territory to get him to his book endgame, but I guess that's on D&D for whitewashing Tyrion as much as they have for the past seven seasons.

If anything, book Tyrion is more likely to turn against his family, as he seems to hate Cersei far more than in the show. It's possible (but not very likely) he would take the side of (f)Aegon though. Betraying Dany at the end (if he hasn't done so earlier by going to (f)Aegon), sounds unlikely to me unless Jaime's fate is involved.

[ursula]

Why should a Tyrion betrayal be far-fetched? Didn't he basically sabotage Dany's campaign all throughout season 7? She arrived on Westeros with 3 allies and 2 personal armies. Thanks to his counsel, in 3 episodes, she had lost all her allies, and half of her armies were stranded on the other side of the continent. She only managed to break even in the middle of a war that she should have won because she stopped listening to his advice. He supported the ridiculous Wight Hunt / CeaseFire with Cersei (I can't remember but didn't he actually suggest them in the first place?), giving her time to recover her losses and acquire another army. And we have no idea what secrets he and Cersei shared/agreed on during their private meeting. 

At this point, I'm actually relieved at the idea that Tyrion has been deliberately betraying Dany all along and not just making stupid mistakes that just happen to favour his House and family.

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, Wouter said:

It is not certain Winterfell gets burned down. There was a serious fire on the set, but it hasn't been confirmed Winterfell was completely destroyed. It's a large structure with two defensive walls. It's possible the fire is started by the defenders.

It's unlikely that the alliance will lose the battle, yet most of the characters (and a sizable part of the army and both dragons, presumably) escape to fight again at or near KL. If the NK wins, it should be game over. So even if Winterfell does get burned down with heavy losses to northern, Vale and Targaryen armies, the NK should suffer equivalent losses or lose control of (most of) his wights or else he would be unstoppable.

I believe I said "a loss or a tie at best", mentioned Melisandre (possibly, the only sure thing is what's on pictures* without context) turning part of the AOTD against the NK, and I don't believe I mentioned who burned WF, just that it's "burned down" (not "to the ground" and indeed, there is no proof it is or who does it). There were a few photos of scenes filmed near WF walls, that were placed "after the battle", and some claimed there were main characters there. Does it mean that the NK can't/won't take WF, or that he won't bother, believing it completely destroyed and everyone dead? It's impossible to know.

Now, speculation. Your reasoning goes both ways: If the Stargaryen alliance wins (as in "doesn't lose") the battle, why would they escape to KL and let the NK invade the whole continent until the capital? A win of the alliance would be game over for the NK, too. Jon and Dany's goal is to save people's lives, not let the NK turn half of the Westerosi population into wights. The best strategy, then, would be to stand their ground in the North. If they don't, it has to be because they can't. So I think that while not losing the war, the alliance might either lose the battle, or suffer a big loss in a tie, and it will force them to retreat south; being unable, for reasons unknown yet, to keep WF as a base.

*Same, just in case: Everything I mentioned in that post about Tyrion's betrayal was in the context of Friki's leaks. If they aren't valid, everything is fair game again.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, ursula said:

Why should a Tyrion betrayal be far-fetched? Didn't he basically sabotage Dany's campaign all throughout season 7? She arrived on Westeros with 3 allies and 2 personal armies. Thanks to his counsel, in 3 episodes, she had lost all her allies, and half of her armies were stranded on the other side of the continent. She only managed to break even in the middle of a war that she should have won because she stopped listening to his advice. He supported the ridiculous Wight Hunt / CeaseFire with Cersei (I can't remember but didn't he actually suggest them in the first place?), giving her time to recover her losses and acquire another army. And we have no idea what secrets he and Cersei shared/agreed on during their private meeting. 

At this point, I'm actually relieved at the idea that Tyrion has been deliberately betraying Dany all along and not just making stupid mistakes that just happen to favour his House and family.

The information from Friki is that Tyrion betrays the Starks, not Dany.

[LadyChaos]

16 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The information from Friki is that Tyrion betrays the Starks, not Dany.

Which makes me think, that if the Bran is the one that the NK is after; that Tyrion hands him over, thinking that it would end the war.  The Starks feeling betrayed at him getting Bran killed, try him for treason.

[Wouter]

32 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

I believe I said "a loss or a tie at best", mentioned Melisandre (possibly, the only sure thing is what's on pictures* without context) turning part of the AOTD against the NK, and I don't believe I mentioned who burned WF, just that it's "burned down" (not "to the ground" and indeed, there is no proof it is or who does it). There were a few photos of scenes filmed near WF walls, that were placed "after the battle", and some claimed there were main characters there. Does it mean that the NK can't/won't take WF, or that he won't bother, believing it completely destroyed and everyone dead? It's impossible to know.

Now, speculation. Your reasoning goes both ways: If the Stargaryen alliance wins (as in "doesn't lose") the battle, why would they escape to KL and let the NK invade the whole continent until the capital? A win of the alliance would be game over for the NK, too. Jon and Dany's goal is to save people's lives, not let the NK turn half of the Westerosi population into wights. The best strategy, then, would be to stand their ground in the North. If they don't, it has to be because they can't. So I think that while not losing the war, the alliance might either lose the battle, or suffer a big loss in a tie, and it will force them to retreat south; being unable, for reasons unknown yet, to keep WF as a base.

*Same, just in case: Everything I mentioned in that post about Tyrion's betrayal was in the context of Friki's leaks. If they aren't valid, everything is fair game again.

Kaysen on Freefolk still is unsure about Friki's leaks, and I guess so are we. With all those extraordinary measures taken by HBO, it's hard to tell which are feints and which are real.

The NK can lose at Winterfell (defined as not getting in the castle far enough to kill everyone or nearly everyone, and taking major losses in the process) and still continue to KL. In case he loses badly, this could even be a move of desperation: he alone on Viserion (or with a small group of WW's and possibly remaining wights) to KL in order to build a new (wight) army from the inhabitants. Or, if he loses but keeps a part of his army (or even if the battle ends at a draw and he makes the decision that going for KL will yield quicker and better results than maintaining an attack or siege on Winterfell) he could decide to go for a target that is less tough.

When people say WF gets burned down, they usually seem to mean the castle gets entirely destroyed and survivors (apparently a remarkably high number, considering the amound of main characters still around for 8x06) escape through the crypts (and, I suppose, a secret exit from there to behind enemy lines). This may be possible, but the alternative is that the inner section of Winterfell holds and the fire is waging mainly or entirely between both walls, hopefully with lots of wights in it.

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, Wouter said:

Kaysen on Freefolk still is unsure about Friki's leaks, and I guess so are we. With all those extraordinary measures taken by HBO, it's hard to tell which are feints and which are real.

The NK can lose at Winterfell (defined as not getting in the castle far enough to kill everyone or nearly everyone, and taking major losses in the process) and still continue to KL. In case he loses badly, this could even be a move of desperation: he alone on Viserion (or with a small group of WW's and possibly remaining wights) to KL in order to build a new (wight) army from the inhabitants. Or, if he loses but keeps a part of his army (or even if the battle ends at a draw and he makes the decision that going for KL will yield quicker and better results than maintaining an attack or siege on Winterfell) he could decide to go for a target that is less tough.

When people say WF gets burned down, they usually seem to mean the castle gets entirely destroyed and survivors (apparently a remarkably high number, considering the amound of main characters still around for 8x06) escape through the crypts (and, I suppose, a secret exit from there to behind enemy lines). This may be possible, but the alternative is that the inner section of Winterfell holds and the fire is waging mainly or entirely between both walls, hopefully with lots of wights in it.

I am leaning towards the belief that enough of Winterfell is destroyed that the many of the main characters have to flee to King's Landing because of the hints we got from the filming in Seville suggests that the remaining non-combatant characters there were part of the battle scenes not just the filming of the epilogue. It seems to me the most plausible explanation for why they all are at King's Landing when the Night King attacks and not arriving after the final battle is over. Now if the hints were misinterpreted and the  non-combatants only filmed the epilogue in Seville, then it is likely they stay at Winterfell while Dany, the remainder of her army, Jon, etc. chase the Night King and the remaining White Walkers to King's Landing for the final battle.

Edited March 10, 2019 by SimoneS

[Noneofyourbusiness]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

The information from Friki is that Tyrion betrays the Starks, not Dany.

How's that supposed to work? With the Starks having bent the knee to her and Winterfell being her current base of operations, any betrayal of the Starks is a betrayal of Dany and vice versa. Maybe Friki was just using shorthand for "the good guys".

Edited March 10, 2019 by Noneofyourbusiness

[anamika]

803 - 60

804 - 78

805 - 80

806 - 80

So according to Cogman and Hibberd and the rest, the biggest battle they have ever filmed is in 803 and that's the final battle with the army of the dead. So this threat they have been building up from the first episode of the show is dealt with in 60 minutes.

And what is happening in the latter half of the show. Or in 805 with 80 minutes? All of that is them tackling Cersei?

It's clear that 805 is where the big stuff is happening. If I recall right, BoatsexBaby had mentioned that they were filming KL stuff as well for the long night shoots earlier on and looking at runtimes,  this could be true.

I think like 'Hardhome' they want to keep 805 under wraps and secretive and talk up the 803 battle.

The latter three episodes seems to be where all the important stuff is happening and we only got small bits from the first three episodes in the trailer.