Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Happy Harpy]

26 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

The wall has fallen and the army of the dead is approaching and there is a wight dragon and the Northern

ers don't care about any of it but about their petty power plays. For weeks and months Jon has tried to get allies in the South, at his own risks, and they did nothing but plotting  against him and whinging. Most of them didn't even provide WF for food, as they were ordered to. Everything Jon says during the northern assembly in 8x01 about the threat and need for allies falls on deaf ears. They go on nitpicking and doubting and squabbling instead of seeing the big picture. It's been their attitude since S7 to at least 8x01.

Jon goes on a dragon for a couple of hours, and he's the one forgetting his duties or ignoring the threat? LOL. As for the reasons, I'll see how it plays out. From what Friki said, it seemed to me that the dragon ride was the reason, but re-reading it isn't that clear. I'd say that Dany, for one, certainly has had in mind to make Jon ride Rhaegal, because his contact with Drogon was last season and she had the time to think about it.

4 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

 At the very least it's irresponsible that they are taking the Dragons with them on their trip, because the Dragons are actually the biggest defense weapon Winterfell has. They are endangering everybody in Winterfell.

It's a moot point. They're back in time to discuss with Sam and the parentage reveal at the end of 8x01, so before the AOTD is anywhere near WF.

[Colorful Mess]

1 minute ago, Happy Harpy said:

ers don't care about any of it but about their petty power plays. For weeks and months Jon has tried to get allies in the South, at his own risks, and they did nothing but plotting  against him and whinging. Most of them didn't even provide WF for food, as they were ordered to. Everything Jon says during the northern assembly in 8x01 about the threat and need for allies falls on deaf ears. They go on nitpicking and doubting and squabbling instead of seeing the big picture. It's been their attitude since S7 to at least 8x01.

So prove them wrong and double down and get to work. Don't prove them RIGHT by flying off with the lady whom everyone mistrusts.

Where's the evidence that they didnt provide WF with food? If I recall, Dany was the one who burned food in her Loot Train attack and will now be dependent on the North to provide her armies with it. Another reason for them to be pissed at her. 

And lets not forget that Dany could fix all of their concerns by simply saying she won't rule over them. Instead she just sits there and says nothing? That's disastrous. 

[BadAssRobinArryn]

1 minute ago, Happy Harpy said:

It's a moot point. They're back in time to discuss with Sam and the parentage reveal at the end of 8x01, so before the AOTD is anywhere near WF.

Yes, but this is because they are lucky and not because of any responsible behaviour.

IMO, the Northerners get criticized for less, at least if I understand the spoilers correctly. Because while they may be unhappy about Dany, they still seem to do everything to protect the castle. Yet it are Jon and Dany themselves, who are going on a trip taking the biggest weapons with them.

With that being said, I'll wait until I have seen the episode before I'll make a complete judgement. They might still be close to WInterfell and at a place from where they could act at once.

[SimoneS]

I was re-watching bits of last season. I had forgotten how close Tormund came to dying on the wight hunt before being saved by the Hound. Don't die, Tormund! You are the main source of comedy on the show.

[Colorful Mess]

14 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

To be fair to Jon and Dany, the Northerners themselves don’t seem to give a flying fuck that the AOTD is approaching. The only thing they seem to do once JD arrive is berate them and whine about knee bending. So if the Northerners can spend hours bitching and whining, which has no benefit to the war, then JD can spend a few hours showing the dragons how to mate.

It's really not equal in any sense of the word.

Northern Lords' power: can yell, not bend the knee, go home, exile themselves

Dany's power: can obliterate them in 5 seconds or save them. It all depends on her...whims? Like wow, that's a comforting thought.

The Northern Lords aren't running for president of Westeros. Jon and Dany, if they are supposed to be the great hope of Westeros, should be the leaders who handle the politics maturely, and with grace. They're not. They'd rather just hit the ignore button when the crisis is at its peak. I can't wait for Sam to shake Jon out of this stupor. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Colorful Mess

[tangerine95]

20 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Dude, the monster that Jon and Dany helped create is now on the loose and Dany knows about it. It could strike Winterfell at ANY TIME and they are on a joy ride far away from wherever Winterfell is. That's why I said if the writers cared to make them look smart, they would have them go on a mission together.

The GA is going to tear them to shreds. 

This isn't the actions of a responsible future king or even a successful hero. 

Don't they have scouts for this kind of stuff?I mean the show plays it kinda loose with that but still I'm pretty sure they do.They also have Bran who is tracking the NK.If Jon and Dany left I'm pretty sure they got info that it's safe.If the show wanted us to see them as irresponsible for this then they probably would have faced some consequences and not just come back with nothing happening.Kinda like when Robb left on a totally pointless trip with Talisa and came back to Jaime escaping.That were were meant to see as a problem.I seriously doubt anyone north will be commenting on them leaving for such a short time.If anything they'll be talking about Jon riding a dragon which is a huge deal.

Tbh imo this is kinda nitpicking.And I doubt the GA will tear them to shreds over one scene that has zero negative consequences.Imo the people that will look dumb will be the ones bothering to play political games and reject the person that brought the dragons and the armies.

Edited April 7, 2019 by tangerine95

[Smad]

18 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

To be fair to Jon and Dany, the Northerners themselves don’t seem to give a flying fuck that the AOTD is approaching. The only thing they seem to do once JD arrive is berate them and whine about knee bending. So if the Northerners can spend hours bitching and whining, which has no benefit to the war, then JD can spend a few hours showing the dragons how to mate.

To be fair to the Northerners, none of them have seen the dead from what we know. They are supposed to take it on faith. Not their fault Jon didn't care to swing by WF and show them a wight. So of course they can find the time for all non-related AotD stuff, deep down they probably still think it a fairy tale.

And of course one has to wonder, if the whole AotD was so urgent and important, why are J/D going off taking joyrides? This does't exactly help J/D's position if they want to make the threat palatable to the North.

[Happy Harpy]

4 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Where's the evidence that they didnt provide WF with food?

Sansa talked about not being provided with the right amount of grain for the stores in 7x04.

3 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

Yes, but this is because they are lucky and not because of any responsible behaviour.

IMO, the Northerners get criticized for less, at least if I understand the spoilers correctly. Because while they may be unhappy about Dany, they still seem to do everything to protect the castle. Yet it are Jon and Dany themselves, who are going on a trip taking the biggest weapons with them.

With that being said, I'll wait until I have seen the episode before I'll make a complete judgement. They might still be close to WInterfell and at a place from where they could act at once.

As I said above, I criticize the Northerners for being naysayers and refusing to see the big picture for more than a season. Not for taking a couple of hours off (if that's the case).

I don't remember part of the leaks showing that the Northern lords "do everything" to protect the castle; participating in protecting their kingdom and WF, which seems a key in its defense when the threat comes from up North, is the least they can do. I remember a state of the troops review at the assembly, the Karstark troops yet to arrive and a strategy reunion, although I was under the impression that the latter was between Jorah, Tyrion and Davos.

The Stargaryen also have Bran who monitors the AOTD in real time. Indeed, waiting to see how it plays out is wiser.

[Happy Harpy]

21 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I was re-watching bits of last season. I had forgotten how close Tormund came to dying on the wight hunt before being saved by the Hound. Don't die, Tormund! You are the main source of comedy on the show.

The reviews seem to say that there are more humorous moments at least in 8x01. Methinks we're going to need it before shit goes down.

Tormund is the last named Wildling, it can play in his favor. If some Wildlings survive, he should. Yet big Houses were wiped out, so will they wipe out the Wildings, too?

[BadAssRobinArryn]

4 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Tormund is the last named Wildling, it can play in his favor.  

Gilly is also still around. But I fear neither will make it.

[Colorful Mess]

9 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Sansa talked about not being provided with the right amount of grain for the stores in 7x04.

Can you cite dialogue that blames the Northern Lords for hoarding their food? I only recall the scene in 7x03 when she says they dont have enough food. Could just mean they don't have enough. Then she comes up with the plan to have them send them food. 

[anamika]

Northerners spend precious time complaining about Jon bending the knee instead of planning for the AOTD - after Bran tells them that the wall has fallen and that the AOTD are marching on them.

Sam manipulatively pushes Jon to be king and tries to drive a wedge between Jon and Dany because he cares about Gilly and baby Sam above all and is angry about Dickon.

Sansa does nothing to support Jon and accuses him of being disloyal to the North because Starks comes first for her and she sees Dany as a bigger threat than the AOTD.

All these people are allowed to put their own selfish personal interests above the AOTD coming their way.

But if the lady who halted her personal campaign and marched North and the guy who has only thus far put the interests of the realm first , take some time out to go dragon riding? Worst sin ever!

It's actually nice that Jon and Dany are taking some time off from the idiots in the North before the shit hits the fan. Time better spend than listening to Sansa's non-stop whinging.

Edited April 7, 2019 by anamika

[Smad]

8 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Can you cite dialogue that blames the Northern Lords for hoarding their food? I only recall the scene in 7x03 when she says they dont have enough food. Could just mean they don't have enough. Then she comes up with the plan to have them send them food. 

No one blamed the Northern Lords. That's a bunch of bullcrap that's not supported by the show. Sansa asked the Maester what the longest winter in recorded history was. Then it turned to the grain discussion, Sansa mentioned them not having enough at WF. She then said to contact the other Houses in the North to bring grain down to WF now because everyone will flee there anyway and they won't have time to bring it with them when they flee in a hurry.

Sansa never said anything about blaming the Lords but that has never stopped a certain faction of fans from making stuff up.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Smad

[nikma]

1 hour ago, Colorful Mess said:

I can't imagine actually wanting characters to act that dumb

We want characters to act like humans. 

[nikma]

It is important to see Jon and Dany alone as couple, to be just two people in love, and not constantly discussing politics. I don't think there will be that much time for that in E2 or E3. I like those little moments they had in E6 and E7 last season, since I really love chemistry between them. 

In E4 I think there will be breathing room for that. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by nikma

[Colorful Mess]

1 minute ago, nikma said:

It is really important to see Jon and Dany alone as couple, to be just two people in love, and not constantly discussing politics. I don't think there will be that much time for that in E2 or E3.

In E4 I think there will be breathing room for that. 

Do it BEFORE they hear about all the problems they caused. B E F O R E 

[Smad]

I love the childishness. Northern Lords do A, so D/J are allowed to do B.

I don't freaking care for their romance. From all accounts they know the AoTD is in the North when they get to WF. We learn in this episode that Last Hearth is gone. Karhold too probably. The army is literally on WF's doorstep. This isn't the time for joyrides and sex.

And lets not forget these are the morons who are the reason the wall is down, they handed the NK a WMD that allowed his army to invade Westeros. They don't get a timeout. All they get to have time for is to fix their stupidity. If they rather fvck than take responsibility for their screw up, they better both die horribly. How the hell can you even still get it up when your are responsible for those deaths?

[nikma]

There is no "before" any more lol.

Just now, Smad said:

I don't freaking care for their romance.

And some of us do. 

[nikma]

50 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Tbh imo this is kinda nitpicking.And I doubt the GA will tear them to shreds over one scene that has zero negative consequences

I agree with this. I feel like this is a very strange thing to complain about.

And not only that I don't think the GA will tear them to shreds over this, I think this will probably be the most popular scene from this episode. 

[nikma]

5 minutes ago, Smad said:

They essentially brought the wall down which will kill thousands.

Good. Thanks to them we will have exciting S8. lol

[nikma]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I was re-watching bits of last season.

Speaking of re-watching, I just re-watched S5E5. And it's really shocking how much time we spent at WF (it was like 25 or so minutes), where nothing major happens. Just character interactions and character development. 

I hope Cogman writes something similar for S8E2. I think he could write really great scene between Dany and Sansa where they start to bond.

Edited April 7, 2019 by nikma

[SimoneS]

2 minutes ago, nikma said:

Speaking of re-watching, I just re-watched S5E5. And it's really shocking how much time we spent at WF (it was like 25 or so minutes), where nothing major happens. Just character interactions and character development. 

I hope Cogman writes something similar for S8E2. 

Whenever people complain about non stop action, I just shake my head. Most of the screen time devoted to character interaction and interpersonal conflict with action scenes interspersed. The episode with the wight hunt is the perfect example: tons of conversation between various characters in various locations which culminates with the battle with the NK and Dany coming to the rescue at the end of the episode.

[Neko]

If every second of the final season was about preparing for the AotD, I would be bored.  I'm not going to blast the show for having one scene where Jon and Dany take a short break and reveal the more human side of themselves.  They're falling in love, and they want to get away from the huge amount of pressure they have both been under since day one.  That's totally relatable, and it could make the audience even more emotionally invested in their respective fates, if it's done well.

But, I actually still enjoy the show a lot, and I think the writing is still pretty good, so this is just my opinion.

[cambridgeguy]

Obviously the best solution is to let the NK win - if everyone dies, then everyone's least favorite character is dead!  That's what they deserve for their stupidity!

26 minutes ago, nikma said:

I hope Cogman writes something similar for S8E2. I think he could write really great scene between Dany and Sansa where they start to bond.

Maybe they'll realize how similar they are.  They've both been traded around as pawns and have managed to come out as leaders.  They're also a bit more ruthless than their chief partners (Jon/Tyrion). They could also have an interesting discussion about who has been through worse although I think Sansa gets the nod for that one.  After all, she had to deal with Ramsey.

[Eyes High]

37 minutes ago, nikma said:

Speaking of re-watching, I just re-watched S5E5. And it's really shocking how much time we spent at WF (it was like 25 or so minutes), where nothing major happens. Just character interactions and character development. 

I hope Cogman writes something similar for S8E2. I think he could write really great scene between Dany and Sansa where they start to bond.

We were promised a very intimate Nutter episode in particular that stands in contrast to the rest of the season. 8x01 doesn’t sound like that episode, with the epic dragon ride sequence and so on, but 8x02 could be. At the very least, I think it will contain a great Jaime/Tyrion scene, since Bryan Cogman is writing it. 

As for Dany/Sansa bonding, there is that still from what I think is 8x02 of Sansa holding a bowl outdoors and looking at someone. She’s not exactly smiling at them but in my opinion, she is looking at them with warmth and openness. Could it be Dany...? 

I’m surprised that we’re a week out from the premiere and we still have no episode title. I bet the episode title we do get is something incredibly generic, too.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Eyes High

[Minneapple]

I do think the timing of Jon's dragon joyriding is a little silly. First he doesn't know he's a Targaryen, then as mentioned above the Army of the Dead is coming. It seems like they wanted to get in one "fun" dragonride before the shit hits the fan. Which is pretty much par for the course these days anyways, with the showrunners putting more effort into CGI than they do into things like character development.

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

As for Dany/Sansa bonding, there is that still from what I think is 8x02 of Sansa holding a bowl outdoors and looking at someone. She’s not exactly smiling at them but in my opinion, she is looking at them with warmth and openness. Could it be Dany...? 

My bet is Arya. As far as we know, Sansa and Dany don't interact much directly in 8x01. I doubt Sansa will have warm fuzzy feelings toward Dany by 8x02.

[catrice2]

I like the "minor" characters better. I do not have Reddit and I am too lazy to read through all of these pages. When does Jorah, Brianne, Grey Worm die? Early or later in the season?   

[glowbug]

I don’t think Jon riding Rhaegal is a distraction if the purpose is for him to use Rhaegal in battle. I think the dragons are supposed to be more effective when they have a rider. Hopefully the idea doesn’t come out of no where. If they have a short scene with some dialogue telling us that the dragons have been unusually comfortable with him (beyond the one scene in season 7) it might make sense for them to try having him ride Rhaegal. I’ve wanted Jon to ride a dragon for a while so I’m happy it’s happening at all though. 

[onyxrose81]

28 minutes ago, glowbug said:

I don’t think Jon riding Rhaegal is a distraction if the purpose is for him to use Rhaegal in battle. I think the dragons are supposed to be more effective when they have a rider. Hopefully the idea doesn’t come out of no where. If they have a short scene with some dialogue telling us that the dragons have been unusually comfortable with him (beyond the one scene in season 7) it might make sense for them to try having him ride Rhaegal. I’ve wanted Jon to ride a dragon for a while so I’m happy it’s happening at all though. 

Of course the purpose is to use Rhaegal in battle.  Viserion’s fate is what happens when they don’t have a rider. Bitching about this scene is nitpicking at its finest.    And the idea that the GA would care about that is completely idiotic.  Dragons and two of the pretty main characters...that’s all they will see.  If I was Dany and Jon I would take a couple of hours out of the day to get away from WF too.  

[SimoneS]

Just now, onyxrose81 said:

Of course the purpose is to use Rhaegal in battle.  Viserion’s fate is what happens when they don’t have a rider. Bitching about this scene is nitpicking at its finest.    And the idea that the GA would care about that is completely idiotic.  Dragons and two of the pretty main characters...that’s all they will see.  If I was Dany and Jon I would take a couple of hours out of the day to get away from WF too.  

I can just imagine the reaction if Jon had to ride Rhaegal in the middle of the battle, fell off, and died. Ha. I agree though most of the audience are will be thrilled to see the dragons up close as most people love them. They are so much bigger now and the CGI has improved so much. I know Leslie Jones will be losing her mind. Bwah.

As for Jon and Dany, I hope that we get a real love scene other than both of them making out and having off screen sex in front of their very interested dragons. 

[Minneapple]

15 minutes ago, glowbug said:

I don’t think Jon riding Rhaegal is a distraction if the purpose is for him to use Rhaegal in battle. I think the dragons are supposed to be more effective when they have a rider. Hopefully the idea doesn’t come out of no where. If they have a short scene with some dialogue telling us that the dragons have been unusually comfortable with him (beyond the one scene in season 7) it might make sense for them to try having him ride Rhaegal. I’ve wanted Jon to ride a dragon for a while so I’m happy it’s happening at all though. 

Dany did note that the dragons seemed okay with him last season. I agree that if they have a conversation about it before it would make more sense. It just seems so random and out of the blue. Hey, try to hop on the dragon and see what happens.

[Stella]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

As for Jon and Dany, I hope that we get a real love scene other than both of them making out and having off screen sex in front of their very interested dragons. 

 D & D really need to give us non-shippers something more to become invested in the Jon/Dany relationship and that spoiler if true, isn't very promising.

The "eyes open" kiss sounds hilarious. 

TV Tropes:

Quote

The kiss equivalent of the Traitor Shot-- when two people kiss, one of them has their eyes open. This is a sign Something Is Wrong.

Maybe the wide-eyed lover is going to betray the other person, or maybe they're bored, or maybe they're forced into it, or maybe they suddenly realized kissing the other person isn't as good as it used to be. The only consistent thing is that if one part of the couple opens their eyes when they smooch, all is not right in love land.

[Happy Harpy]

8 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

Can you cite dialogue that blames the Northern Lords for hoarding their food? I only recall the scene in 7x03 when she says they dont have enough food. Could just mean they don't have enough. Then she comes up with the plan to have them send them food. 

I can cite dialogue (I never talked about anything as dramatic as "blaming" or "hoarding their food", though, but made a simple observation). In 7x03, indeed, Sansa asks for each nothern keep to contribute for food. In 7x04, she's talking to LF: "...they haven't contributed the right amount of grain for the stores" ("then I'm afraid they'll have to make do with what they *mumbles* we can't" -cuts when she sees Arya and Brienne).

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I can just imagine the reaction if Jon had to ride Rhaegal in the middle of the battle, fell off, and died. Ha.

Realism! And yeah, I also think that the audience will be thrilled at the very least to see Jon on a dragon.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

5 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I like the "minor" characters better. I do not have Reddit and I am too lazy to read through all of these pages. When does Jorah, Brianne, Grey Worm die? Early or later in the season?   

We do not know who will die as of now. It's just speculation. If set reports are true, than both Brienne and Grey Worm are still around at the very end of the Season. Jorah however, seems missing.

[whoknowswho]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I can just imagine the reaction if Jon had to ride Rhaegal in the middle of the battle, fell off, and died. Ha. I agree though most of the audience are will be thrilled to see the dragons up close as most people love them. They are so much bigger now and the CGI has improved so much. I know Leslie Jones will be losing her mind. Bwah.

As for Jon and Dany, I hope that we get a real love scene other than both of them making out and having off screen sex in front of their very interested dragons. 

Leslie Jones and Seth Myers are the reason I am smitten with this show. I never was one bit interested until I saw Them together.  They were hilarious.  I started watching immediately, was completely unspoiled for every episode up to season 6, and after watching their skit I went to the first season and began a love affair with this show. And the books. 

[cambridgeguy]

3 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Realism! And yeah, I also think that the audience will be thrilled at the very least to see Jon on a dragon.

True, although they should then cut to a shot of Ghost looking really sad.  After being totally forgotten he's now been replaced by a dragon.  To be fair, Ghost versus wights = dead Ghost, so maybe Jon should tell him to run off and avoid the battle that's coming. 

[Happy Harpy]

6 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

True, although they should then cut to a shot of Ghost looking really sad.  After being totally forgotten he's now been replaced by a dragon.  To be fair, Ghost versus wights = dead Ghost, so maybe Jon should tell him to run off and avoid the battle that's coming. 

Yeah, poor Summer is a bad precedent of Wolf vs Wight.

However, if those were indeed wolves in the first/big trailer, I have good hope for Ghost. He can be reunited with his sister and go stomping-chomping some wights; and maybe even make it -the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives, after all.

[onyxrose81]

If Ghost dies, we riot.

[Eyes High]

Odd bit of information: the Weeknd, Travis Scott, and SZA are working on a track to be featured in S8. Closing credits song like the rock version of The Bear and the Maiden Fair, maybe?

If you're wondering what that might sound like, it turns out the Weeknd and Travis Scott previously collaborated on "Wonderful," and SZA and Travis Scott previously collaborated on "Love Galore." 

[Lady Iris]

17 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I was re-watching bits of last season. I had forgotten how close Tormund came to dying on the wight hunt before being saved by the Hound. Don't die, Tormund! You are the main source of comedy on the show.

Its true, I'd miss his mooning cow eyes at Brienne.

I'm just stunned that its one week before the premiere. Time is a weird thing because we've been waiting and waiting and waiting, almost two frickin' years and we're allllllmost there.

[Eyes High]

A bunch of new videos have dropped on the GOT Youtube channel of the various cast members reflecting on their roles, their experience filming GOT, and the show itself. Judging from the actors' clothes and the background, it looks like they were interviews filmed at the same time as those "history" videos that came out in December where the actors recap their characters' stories, and it's the same set of actors: Kit, Emilia, John, Lena, Nikolaj, Peter, Maisie, Isaac, Sophie, Rory, Iain, and Liam. Good stuff. There's lots of BTS footage, too.

There's nothing about S8 specifically, apart from generic comments about the scope and sweep of the final episodes, but there are some fun tidbits, like Emilia talking about falling off a horse her first day filming, or Nikolaj apparently filming a version of the 1x01 Bran/Cersei/Jaime scene where he was completely naked. 

ETA: Isaac did say when talking about cast members he enjoyed working with that he really enjoyed working with "Ellie, who played Meera."

Edited April 8, 2019 by Eyes High

[screamin]

I don't have a problem, per se, with Jon and Dany going for a dragon ride - it's important to use dragons in strategic ways in coordinated attacks, and it would be an especial public sign of favor and trust that she allows Jon to take that role - one that might reassure the North that even though Jon demoted himself to Warden, she's not going to treat him (and the North) as just another flunky. To use the dragons as weapons effectively,  he has to learn to ride one.

What DOES  bother me is that it's freakin' WINTER in the North already. It's one thing to find a stunning snow-covered landscape to admire, maybe exchange a few kisses in front of before going home to hot cider and a warm bed. But finding a gorgeous landscape that's ALSO warm and inviting enough for a more extended romantic interlude and sentimental yearning to settle in and stay forever? Either they flew all the way to the Summer Isles, or they just HAPPENED to find another cozy cave conveniently heated with hot springs like Jon did with his first love. Both would be unbelievably silly, IMO.

[GraceK]

I think we should see the scene before we rush to judgement. And honestly, I’m not gonna begrudge Jon a moment of Joy before his world topples. The people that seem the most upset are the ones who were convinced in The political Jon theory and deluded themselves into thinking season 7 was part of a long con on Jons end to manipulate Dany with sex to steal her dragons, betray and then kill her.  So a lot of this outrage just sounds a little salty because it turns out Jon is actually in love with her like the majority of the fans already knew. 

Anyway, I for one will be happy to see a nice little interlude of intimidate character scenes before all the angst, bloodshed and battles. 😊

[glowbug]

I’m generally okay with the leaks for the first episode. Some things annoy me (like the northern lords focusing on politics when the AotD has crossed their threshold), others I like (Jon riding a dragon, ending the episode with Jaime and Bran’s meeting because of the symmetry with the pilot), but the one thing I absolutely hate is the lack of Ghost. The reunion between Jon and Ghost was one I would have loved to see, almost as much as Jon and Arya, and Ghost’s reaction to Dany would be interesting. I still maintain that the lack of direwolves and the butchering of Jaime’s characterization and character arc are the worst adaptation mistakes the show has made. 

[domina89]

14 hours ago, glowbug said:

I’ve wanted Jon to ride a dragon for a while so I’m happy it’s happening at all though. 

Isn't one of the main reasons we watch this show is so we can FEEL something for these characters?  To experience emotions along with them on their journeys?  I know that I will probably be teary eyed watching Jon ride a dragon and I want to enjoy it along with him.  I don't want to experience his terror at having to try to ride a dragon for the first time with the AoTD pressing down on him.  I'd much rather experience his awe and wonder at riding for the first time with Dany guiding him and with Ramin Djawadi's incredible score swelling in the background.  That's entertainment for me, personally, and I think Jon has earned that moment.  YMMV.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, domina89 said:

Isn't one of the main reasons we watch this show is so we can FEEL something for these characters?  To experience emotions along with them on their journeys?  I know that I will probably be teary eyed watching Jon ride a dragon and I want to enjoy it along with him.  I don't want to experience his terror at having to try to ride a dragon for the first time with the AoTD pressing down on him.  I'd much rather experience his awe and wonder at riding for the first time with Dany guiding him and with Ramin Djawadi's incredible score swelling in the background.  That's entertainment for me, personally, and I think Jon has earned that moment.  YMMV.

I think that this is why most people watch. It is why I love watching Leslie Jones watching GoT. She totally gets into the show with no agenda or expectations beyond being entertained. She loves the dragons and mimicks the dragons breathing fire. Leslie doesn't get into deep debates like online fans. She is all about Dany burning her enemies and Sansa smiling as the dogs devour Ramsey.

Edited April 8, 2019 by SimoneS

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, glowbug said:

I’m generally okay with the leaks for the first episode. 

Me too (though I'm annoyed by different stuff). It sounds like it will provide a good setup for the season.

1 hour ago, domina89 said:

Isn't one of the main reasons we watch this show is so we can FEEL something for these characters?  To experience emotions along with them on their journeys?  I know that I will probably be teary eyed watching Jon ride a dragon and I want to enjoy it along with him.  I don't want to experience his terror at having to try to ride a dragon for the first time with the AoTD pressing down on him.  I'd much rather experience his awe and wonder at riding for the first time with Dany guiding him and with Ramin Djawadi's incredible score swelling in the background.  That's entertainment for me, personally, and I think Jon has earned that moment.  YMMV.

Feeling stuff also includes feeling scared, surprised, angry, sad. Any good entertainment should bring all of those emotions out in us. 

I'm not saying that the dragonride won't be amazing. I'm excited to see it; I'm excited to see Dany ride Drogon into battle against Viserion and the Night King (I mean, I'm assuming this happens). You don't see effects like that on television other than this show. But narratively speaking Jon's dragonride in 8x01 makes little sense. A story shouldn't just be about awe and wonder. It should be about good, logical character development. The rest is mostly just details and window dressing and money for CGI. 

[nikma]

21 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

But narratively speaking Jon's dragonride in 8x01 makes little sense.

Why?

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, glowbug said:

I’m generally okay with the leaks for the first episode. 

Me, too, but it bothers me that an episode where so many crucial, long-awaited things happen--Jon reunites with Arya, Jon reunites with Bran, Arya reunites with the Hound, Arya reunites with Gendry, the Stark siblings meet Dany, Jon learns of his true parentage, Jon rides a dragon for the first time, etc.--was entrusted to the least competent of a not terribly competent group of writers (in my opinion) to write. From what I understand of D&D's process, the writers all workshop and plot out the episodes together before farming out the individual episodes to writers to script, but the issues in 8x01--the disappointing Jon/Arya reunion, Dany just assuming Jon can ride a dragon, etc.--seem to be faults of execution rather than broader plotting. I get that they had to give Dave Hill something to do, but couldn't they have given him one of the battle/action episodes? 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Eyes High

[Minneapple]

Just now, nikma said:

Why?

As has been mentioned, it comes before Jon knows he's a Targ, and it apparently doesn't cause Dany or Jon to be like "why the fuck can Jon ride the dragon but they're all ROAR ROAR ROAR FIRE ANGRY with everyone else?" And as noted, a dragon joyride is kind of weird when the Army of the Dead is coming. I guess they could have some dialogue in there about Jon practicing dragonriding, but it has not been mentioned in any of the leaks.

Like I said, it seems like they wanted to get in one happy angst-free dragonride for Jon before everything goes to hell, and there is not going to be another time to do it. He's going to find out he's a Targaryen and that won't be a "oh happy day, let me take this dragon out for a ride!" sort of moment. There will be much angst and then they have to prepare for the battle and that's it. No time for dragon joyriding.