S05.E13: The Soviet Division

[Erin9]

I know a lot of people didn't think this season went anywhere, but.....we got to a place where Elizabeth tells Philip to be a travel agent except for the tapes. And she'll do the rest. That was pretty huge to me. Not for one second do I believe this will last, but what an ending.

What I really loved was seeing in so many ways how much they love each other. They have come a long way, even this season. 

I think it was fascinating watching both of them balance love for each other/family and duty to country. Philip couldn't destroy the tape. Elizabeth knew they couldn't leave. And really he knew it too. He's not that easily replaced. (Unlike Stan. Despite what Renee said, I think he is.) I think that'll become painfully obvious when E tries working alone. I think even S1 E would have struggled, but now....it won't ultimately work. 

Meanwhile, Paige is finally moving forward a bit. 

The interesting this is: no one's burnout, except sort of and temporarily imo Philip's, is resolved. This can't be good. No one can continue to be effective feeling the way they all feel now- P, E, Stan, Oleg.....there must be a climax to all of this. 

[Maire]

Aside from Martha's chance at happiness (yeah!) this episode was a flop. If next season wasn't the last I'm not sure I would continue. And I used to love this show!

[jjj]

I am so happy everyone seems to be getting on board Team Reneeski!  I thought the spydar pinged when she met Philip at the gym early in the season.  And her frozen cheerful face when Stan told her he wanted to leave his current job -- we have seen that "Oh, FUCK" look on Elizabeth's face many times when she is trying to look delighted at seriously problematic news. 

[Valmarmar]

Sooooooo disppointed !!!  When the "thing" I was waiting for happened, it was so low-key that I missed its significance.  (Kimmee dad promotion)  I really couldn't hear it, either, so I rewound.  Okay. They now will stay.  First thought:   If the finale is setting up the next season,  I was hoping for a jolt of "unexpected" to cling to in anticipation, at the least.  But,  I am left with feeling we will just get more of the same.

[Ellaria]

A disappointing end to a disappointing season. Nothing particularly memorable other than moody, depressed people, long walks on dark streets and lots of staring into the distance.

The only two characters that I am interested in are Oleg and Henry. I'm indifferent to the rest. I no longer care if Stan figures out anything; in fact, at this rate, I'm betting that he doesn't. 

28 minutes ago, Valmarmar said:

Sooooooo disppointed !!!  When the "thing" I was waiting for happened, it was so low-key that I missed its significance.  (Kimmee dad promotion)  I really couldn't hear it, either, so I rewound.  Okay. They now will stay.  First thought:   If the finale is setting up the next season,  I was hoping for a jolt of "unexpected" to cling to in anticipation, at the least.  But,  I am left with feeling we will just get more of the same.

Same here - I had to go back and replay it, too. (Perhaps a bit too low-key.) I agree that next season will be more of the same. And unfortunately that means more garage sparring sessions between Elizabeth and Paige.

[kikaha]

The suicide scene shows how absurd The Americans can be.  After Pasha attempted suicide, I  think the US government would be all over P, E and T -- as friends, witnesses and (coincidental?) helpers in the attempt to save the young boy.  Their cover would quickly get blown, and their whole lives as spies in America could come to a screeching halt.  Instead, they skate away with hardly a glance. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by kikaha

[minamurray78]

Oleg who? Kill me.

I hope that's the last we see of Tuan. Unless it is to hear he got killed. By a drunk driver. A rich american driver in his sports car, who, after spending lots of money on his lawyers, gets scot-free without setting foot on a courthouse at all. Seems only fitting.

I too think Paige parked her car there on purpose. It looked like she had to walk a bit to get there.

Martha's little orphan was soo cute, I hope she does get to adopt her and finally have a family. Martha's pretty smart, if she gets out of her funk, she'll thrive.

[NitneLiun]

I thought is was funny that P&E took offense when Tuan accused them of having petty, bourgeois concerns, then Elizabeth looks longingly at her shoe collection and dishwasher.   Maybe Tuan understands them better than they understand themselves.

[solea]

Am I the only one that thinks the KGB wants Martha to teach the little girl good, authentic English and culture so that she can be a spy?

In fact, I've been wondering whether they intend to use Martha as a instructor of American cultural mores, etc? I highly doubt her life in the USSR is going to be one with no strings attached. 

[MisterBluxom]

I just watched this episode and I must admit I don't understand much of it. I thought the lyrics to Goodbye Yellow Brick Road were important so I will post a link to them here:

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/eltonjohn/goodbyeyellowbrickroad.html

I didn't know if it would be a problem to reproduce them in full. Many boards have some policy about "fair sampling" and they don't like it if people reproduce the entire lyrics to a song. So, you can read them if you like. They sure didn't help me. I've read them twice but I don't understand them.

ETA: I just found an explanation here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye_Yellow_Brick_Road_(song)

"The lyrics describe wanting to go back to a simpler existence after living what the narrator thought was the good life, but realizing they had simply been treated like a pet."

So, is the significance of this song that P&E (and maybe some other characters too) believe that in order to become happy, they must do something differently than what they are currently doing? But, they realize they would be most happy if they just continued doing what they are currently doing.  Doesn't that fit what P&E were saying about P leaving the spy game? (except to keep delivering the reports on the head of the "Soviet Division")?

Edited May 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, kikaha said:

The suicide scene shows how absurd The Americans can be.  After Pasha attempted suicide, I  think the US government would be all over P, E and T -- as friends, witnesses and (coincidental?) helpers in the attempt to save the young boy.  Their cover would quickly get blown, and their whole lives as spies in America could come to a screeching halt.  Instead, they skate away with hardly a glance. 

When I watched this episode, I thought about the people on this board and I expected to find many comments expressing disappointment and there were certainly many of those kinds of comments.

I had the same thought as KIKAHA about what would likely happen as a result of the suicide. But of course that can't happen or it would mean the end of the show.

I must admit feeling bad about this episode.  I think there are a few key items that I don't understand and it might help me if only I understood them. Right now, the most important one is the significance of Henry and Phillip's conversation. Why was that important? How did it fit in with the rest of the episode? Is it a kind of preview of next season where Henry freaks out and either tries some "stupid Pasha stunt" or does something else that gets his parents exposed and arrested?

Edited May 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[LotusFlower]

When Stan tells his gf that he wants to leave his dept. and she tries to talk him out of it - how are y'all interpreting the look on his face?  Surprise?  Sadness that she's not supporting him?  Suspicious?

[MisterBluxom]

9 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

When Stan tells his gf that he wants to leave his dept. and she tries to talk him out of it - how are y'all interpreting the look on his face?  Surprise?  Sadness that she's not supporting him?  Suspicious?

Given the limited amount of info Stan is allowed to tell her, she seemed to understand what he was talking about much better than I expected she would.  I'm not sure about Stan, but I was left feeling suspicious that she may be getting info about Stan from some other source. Maybe from the "Center" or from the CIA or FBI or something. Maybe she does work for some other agency who wants to know what Stan is up to?

Edited May 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Doyounot]

That scene of them finding pasha was brutal so im fine with no more blood in the episode but man was it slow for a season finale after that. Im mad at myself for eventually thinking they were actually going because of how they were making decisions based on them going like henry and kimmy and how slow it was because if they actually went no matter what henry and paige finding out would be awesome stuff.

So many times i was nervous and nothing happened like philip and their protection (another good actor for a small role i saw the suspicion but then i felt he let it go and just seemed shaken by the whole ordeal so i figured he was safe), paige walking, philip pondering tossing the tape, and for some reason i thought pastor tim was gonna accidentally ruin paiges surprise (he thought they told her since they said soon or something).

If it were real it would be good that i was worried for nothing though but in a show i donno. When he was listening to the tape while washing hands i was nervous that he would hear something that would fuck up their move so i was right to be there but not happy about it.

The look of shock on Elizabeths face that she might actually miss the stuff was great work by keri russell. Also the way she looked at philip at the end was beautiful.

I thought getting a 2 season renewal/wrap up would be amazing so they could plan it out but i feel like their plan was for this to be the first half of the season and the next one the second half. That could be great for the final season but not so good for this one.

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Doyounot said:

That scene of them finding pasha was brutal so im fine with no more blood in the episode but man was it slow for a season finale after that. Im mad at myself for eventually thinking they were actually going because of how they were making decisions based on them going like henry and kimmy and how slow it was because if they actually went no matter what henry and paige finding out would be awesome stuff.

So many times i was nervous and nothing happened like philip and their protection (another good actor for a small role i saw the suspicion but then i felt he let it go and just seemed shaken by the whole ordeal so i figured he was safe), paige walking, philip pondering tossing the tape, and for some reason i thought pastor tim was gonna accidentally ruin paiges surprise (he thought they told her since they said soon or something).

If it were real it would be good that i was worried for nothing though but in a show i donno. When he was listening to the tape while washing hands i was nervous that he would hear something that would fuck up their move so i was right to be there but not happy about it.

The look of shock on Elizabeths face that she might actually miss the stuff was great work by keri russell. Also the way she looked at philip at the end was beautiful.

I thought getting a 2 season renewal/wrap up would be amazing so they could plan it out but i feel like their plan was for this to be the first half of the season and the next one the second half. That could be great for the final season but not so good for this one.

Excellent observations (IMO).

I have to admit the scene with Paige driving in the car completely mystified me. What the *BLEEP* was that about? I'd really like to know. It seemed so out of place and so slow.

Edited May 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Bannon]

Next to this season's midge-a-palooza, I've thought the kimmie arc to be among the show's weakest, so I am disappointed to see it is going to be central to the final season. Here we have a KGB illegal in the house of  CIA officer, who will soon head the Soviet Division. The KGB illegal is surrounded by teenagers, who know him as the old dude who hangs out with Kimmie, supplies pot, and gives the girls backrubs. Because American teenagers are so well known for keeping secrets like that in a group, the KGB illegal can be confident that none of the adults in the teenager's lives will find out about the old dude, and call the police. Yes, sireee, you betcha'. This is before we remember that the CIA knows Kimmie's dad was compromised, when the CIA had a tail on a car carrying unknown occupants away from the dad's house, and the tail was broken up by an obviously deliberate hit and run. So the CIA should have been going nuts trying to find the source of the compromise, including sweeps for electronics at the house, including the brief case, and people watching the house.

I've occasionally been bugged by the writers writing FBI/CIA stupid, to advance the plot, but I've overlooked it, because I've loved the work of Russell,Rhys, and Wright. What took a turn for the worse this season is that the writers started removing P&E's intellect to move the plot along. That'll squander the efforts of fine actors, and I really hate it.

Having said that, kudos for the writing in the scene where Tuan calls P&E out for being petty bourgeoisie. That was funny.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Bannon
Spelling

[Blister]

The show ended and I thought my DVR recording was off, had missed a chunk of the program.  Checked the guide and saw "no, that was the end" ... such an odd no-end-end ... maybe that's the point.

Really, they should have played The Clash "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" (From 1982, so right era)

I didn't miss Oleg's story. I've found it too slow to care about. But I was glad Martha was going to get to raise a child: she's a trooper!
Am I the only one who thought the CIA pulled back on the defector family because they were looking at P+E more closely?  When Eliz. did the slow scan of her closet, then the kitchen, the living room, etc., I thought "she sees something is off, like the place was gone over when they were away and she's noted things that have been moved." 

Count me in the camp that definitely thinks Renee is an agent. I'm not sure which side, but there's a plan going on.  I wish P+E had her story of a flood checked out.

[LotusFlower]

23 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Given the limited amount of info Stan is allowed to tell her, she seemed to understand what he was talking about much better than I expected she would.  I'm not sure about Stan, but I was left feeling suspicious that she may be getting info about Stan from some other source. Maybe from the "Center" or from the CIA or FBI or something. Maybe she does work for some other agency who wants to know what Stan is up to?

Yes, I know.  We've all suspected that she's a KGB agent because Philip keeps raising the possibility.  My question is about Stan - does her reaction to his desire to leave his job make him suspect something?  Or is that giving Stan too much credit?

[Bannon]

46 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

When I watched this episode, I thought about the people on this board and expected to find a whole lot of comments expressing extreme disappointment. There certainly have been some of them.

I had the same thought as KIKAHA about what would likely happen as a result of the suicide. But of course that can't happen or it would be the end of the show.

I must admit to feeling very bad about this. I think there are a few key items that I don't understand and it might help if I understood them. Right now, the most important is the significance of Henry and Phillip's conversation. Why was that important? How did it fit in with the rest of the episode? Is this a tiny preview of next season where Henry freaks out and either tries the "stupid Pasha stunt" or does something else that gets his parents exposed and arrested?

I think there's a good chance Henry ends up in boarding school after all, and we hardly see him next season.

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, chick binewski said:

Also because I am a glass half empty kind of gal I read Martha's reaction as having very mixed feelings about taking a child the KGB was offering. Like she thought the KGB would eventually expect something from that child. Or that she (Martha) was too far gone to bring anyone into her life.

Can you imagine when the child is about to enter her teenage years and it's time for Martha to give her some "life lessons"? What good advice would Martha give her about how she can live a happy and fulfilling life? I would pay good money to see that scene.

Edited May 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[scrb]

Hey it's not the better life that their kids could have.

It's whether she can leave behind her wardrobe and shoes and whether he can stop being the creepy old guy hanging out with teens.

Its whether they can have inside surveillance on a key CIA officer.

I guess for them the kids are still props to maintain their cover, because their work trumps everything, even if it's been shown this season that they been lied to, more than once, to send them off on missions.

3 hours ago, Valmarmar said:

Sooooooo disppointed !!!  When the "thing" I was waiting for happened, it was so low-key that I missed its significance.  (Kimmee dad promotion)  I really couldn't hear it, either, so I rewound.  Okay. They now will stay.  First thought:   If the finale is setting up the next season,  I was hoping for a jolt of "unexpected" to cling to in anticipation, at the least.  But,  I am left with feeling we will just get more of the same.

Why wouldn't Kimmee's dad not object to her spending so much time with whatever Philip's cover is suppose to be?  He's at least 20 years older than his teen daughter.

It's one thing if they were hanging out together on the down low but Philip is over at their home for hours.  Surely he would have put a stop to that?

[MisterBluxom]

6 minutes ago, scrb said:

It's one thing if they were hanging out together on the down low but Philip is over at their home for hours.  Surely he would have put a stop to that?

Of course he would. If he only knew. But I'm guessing she is real careful to prevent him from finding out because she knows that would be the end of her "friend".

[Bannon]

I also think we received some foreshadowing from Liz, and Tuan will be wearing the red shirt next season. He's such an irritating little twit that it would be kind of satisfying to see him gunned down, although hopefully not by P or E.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Bannon

[EtheltoTillie]

I for one thought Stan might have looked suspicious. 

[Doyounot]

53 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

When Stan tells his gf that he wants to leave his dept. and she tries to talk him out of it - how are y'all interpreting the look on his face?  Surprise?  Sadness that she's not supporting him?  Suspicious?

I thought the look was that she changed his mind and he liked her more for it (if she is a spy master work) but it was quick so i could be wrong and maybe im not giving him enough credit because i saw no suspicion (maybe hes a master spy)

40 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I have to admit the scene with Paige driving in the car completely mystified me. What the *BLEEP* was that about? I'd really like to know. It seemed so out of place. It seemed so slow.

Yea they didnt need to drag it on like that but i guess just part of the whole mugging thing. I just kept thinking good for you moving on but lets go!!!!

[Bannon]

12 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Of course he would. If he only knew. But I'm guessing she is real careful to prevent him from finding out because she knows that would be the end of her "friend".

And all it would take is one of the teenage boys having a crush on Kimmie, or the girl getting a backrub from Old Dude Pot Supplier who Hangs with Kimmie, or one of the girls being envious of Kimmie for having Old Dude Pot Supplier who gives Backrubs (and maybe more!), for a dime to be dropped on Old Dude Pot Supplier. The whole thing is preposterous.

[LotusFlower]

39 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I for one thought Stan might have looked suspicious. 

 

38 minutes ago, Doyounot said:

I thought the look was that she changed his mind and he liked her more for it (if she is a spy master work) but it was quick so i could be wrong and maybe im not giving him enough credit because i saw no suspicion (maybe hes a master spy)

 My first thought was that he looked suspicious, but then I thought no way - he's clueless, and pretty besotted with the gf, so he probably likes her more for seeing the good in him.  Plus, like the rest of the episode, it was a set-up for next season.  Stan has to be working there next year for what has to be the BIG reveal of finding out P&E are Russian spies.  

But... he does have a strange look on his face.  Remember when he told Henry that he can't trust anybody in his job, not even "the greatest kid in the world."  So maybe...

Edited May 31, 2017 by LotusFlower

[Christina]

I totally spaced on the fact that I told a friend I would post something here to see if you all remember, because I really don't want to rewatch this season, yet. Maybe I'll do it before next season starts.

Earlier in the season, Elizabeth stole something from a psychologist's office. My friend was saying we had no payoff for that and it was another thing just hanging out there. I said I thought that was why the man in the office with Oleg and his partner was saying he had to send someone to the mental hospital, because even though the things he was saying were true, he was dumb to say it. She didn't think that they related the two things, and I can't say for sure. Does anyone remember?

[MisterBluxom]

Solea posted the following above:

"Am I the only one that thinks the KGB wants Martha to teach the little girl good, authentic English and culture so that she can be a spy?

In fact, I've been wondering whether they intend to use Martha as a instructor of American cultural mores, etc? I highly doubt her life in the USSR is going to be one with no strings attached."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry. I messed up using the Quote feature.

But, I'd like to say that I had the same thought after watching this episode.  The KGB may have decided that Martha represented a good opportunity for them. If adopting the child goes well and Martha is agreeable to the idea of training her to become a spy, maybe she may be willing to adopt other children and train them too. Especially if the KGB can arrange for a young handsome man to front for Martha as a husband (although they will really just be partners in KGB stuff). Martha would really go for a handsome young man like Oleg. We might even get a spinoff.

Edited May 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Chaos Theory]

I really enjoyed this episode/season while fully admitting it is the weakest of the series.  

[TheBride]

Seriously. This series has become insanely lame. I'm fine if this is the end. Good riddance.

Edited May 31, 2017 by TheBride

[TheBride]

8 hours ago, Shriekingeel said:

The Americans go Seinfeld: The season about nothing. 

And only Seinfeld could get away with it. In the case of The Americans, it's clear the writers lost their way. It almost seems as though they are bored with these characters and the way-too-many story lines they created. The tangents are overwhelming and they strangled any core grasp on what in tar nation these people are doing.

[JFParnell]

Remember Marvin the Martian from Looney Tunes, always trying to blow up the Earth? After one failed attempt with a giant laser-blaster, he cries: "Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering KABOOM!"

That's how I felt about the finale. Although, truth be told, this was more what I expected than any dramatic kaboom.

So the Big Season Ender is P&E having another somber conversation and deciding ... NOT to do something.

(Like a few others, I could not hear the big reveal from the tape P was listening to, but I knew he would tell E a scene or two later, so no worries. Eventually Philip always recaps the action.)

Did they forget to put Oleg in the finale? They needed more screen time for Ninja Bourne Paige? Oleg's face currently resides on a milk carton.

Henry is now also NOT doing something, for his big reveal.

Meanwhile Stan is considering NOT being the world's worst counterintelligence officer any longer.

Philip will NOT just run the agency while Elizabeth keeps spying.

And Martha? Well, her Russian is coming along anyway...

I hate to be such a Donnie Downer, guys but ... this show just keeps Wagon Training to nowhere. Inch by inch by inch .... 

[TheBride]

Martha gave us the one, single scene that actually was meaningful and compelling. When she looked at that small child, it was an astonishing connection for her--a path to some kind of salvation in her horribly destroyed life. She saw a path to love again. Or she saw her small self that could be saved. Whichever, that scene alone warrants a personal Emmy--it stood out as a flower in a meadow of bramble. 

[renatae]

8 hours ago, Erin9 said:

Tuon is a backstabbing little jerk. Hope we're done with him. I did like E's harsh speech to him. He needs someone, as she has always needed Philip to share things with. 

And, ugh, wouldn't if be awful if Tuan's "someone else" wound up being her if her scenario of semi-retiring Philip comes to pass!

I felt the "reason" for Philip to continue on in the States was a little weak. Seems to me all he has to do is show up with some young hunk agent at Kimmy's a few times and she would probably be only too happy to take on a new boyfriend.

Edited May 31, 2017 by renatae

[EtheltoTillie]

I can't agree with all the hate this season. I've been willing to follow this show wherever it leads to the end. I have to find out how it resolves. They have been setting up a lot of parallels between the Russian characters and the Americans, real and fake, and they are interesting if slow moving.

On the contrary, I have dropped other series after really liking them because they became ridiculous to me if not the rest of the world. Examples: Game of Thrones, Shameless, and Ray Donovan. YMMV. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by GussieK

[TheBride]

4 minutes ago, renatae said:

And, ugh, wouldn't if be awful if Tuan's "someone else" wound up being her if her scenario of semi-retiring Philip comes to pass!

Or our lovely weird-eyebrowed, bore-of-the-year Paige.

2 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I can't agree with all the hate this season. I've been willing to follow this show wherever it leads to the end. I have to find out how it resolves. They have been setting up a lot of parallels between the Russian characters and the Americans, real and fake  

On the contrary, I have dropped other series after really liking them because they became ridiculous. Examples: Game of Thrones, Shameless, and Ray Donovan. YMMV. 

Proof that producers in the USA never know when to quit--they get greedy. The Brits and Aussies have it right. They do mini-series with or without adding seasons.

[Ellaria]

3 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

My first thought was that he looked suspicious, but then I thought no way - he's clueless, and pretty besotted with the gf, so he probably likes her more for seeing the good in him.  Plus, like the rest of the episode, it was a set-up for next season.  Stan has to be working there next year for what has to be the BIG reveal of finding out P&E are Russian spies.  

But... he does have a strange look on his face.  Remember when he told Henry that he can't trust anybody in his job, not even "the greatest kid in the world."  So maybe...

That's an spot-on description of Stan.

I no longer know what to think about his storyline. Are we interpreting that look as suspicious because we want it to be? At this point I would almost prefer Renee to be a devoted girlfriend and nothing more. This question of "is she or isn't she a spy" has risen up around her character and it may be creating unnecessary questions. Frankly, this was a tease that I didn't need. 

[Chaos Theory]

41 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I can't agree with all the hate this season. I've been willing to follow this show wherever it leads to the end. I have to find out how it resolves. They have been setting up a lot of parallels between the Russian characters and the Americans, real and fake, and they are interesting if slow moving.

On the contrary, I have dropped other series after really liking them because they became ridiculous to me if not the rest of the world. Examples: Game of Thrones, Shameless, and Ray Donovan. YMMV. 

I agree with you. I don't understand the hate for this season at all.  Maybe because this season felt like a filler season and I know how people feel about filler episodes so an entire season would probably drive some people nuts.  I however found the episode and season itself incredibly interesting.  Elizabeth and Philip are both just done.  Paige is trying to figure out who she is in a changing dynamic.  Stan personal and professional live are closing in on him.  All these things are intriguing stories but they are playing out like filler episodes so I can see how a large portion of people wouldn't like them.  

Still it isn't nothing.  This show has never been about nothing.  It's about a lot.  A very lot.  Allot all the time.  Too much. That's why everyone is so damn tired of it all.  That's why P&E want to go home but can't.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Inquisitionist]

8 hours ago, skippylou said:

I'll grade the seasons: 1 A+, 2 A, 3 C, 4 C-, 5 D+. I guess all of these TV dramas slowly go downhill. I loved "Orphan Black" for the first 2 years but probably wont even watch this year. I'll watch the 1st episode of The Americans this fall but if they are back in the USSR I am out of there.

I thought tS2 of The Americans was its strongest, followed by S4 and S1.  I found S3 started weakly but picked up at the end.  S5 has been a disaster from start to finish.  When the finale ended last night, I thought for sure there would be one more scene.  The episode just seemed to peter out. I know the season has been about E and P's interior struggles, but those are difficult to show, and showing has always been the series' strong suit. 

[mellyf]

40 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I really enjoyed this episode/season while fully admitting it is the weakest of the series.  

This is me as well. Last season, my husband used to laugh at me because we'd get to a commercial break and I'd exhale. Never noticed I was holding my breath through most of the episodes. And the episodes themselves would fly by; it never seemed as if an hour (or 70ish minutes) had passed. This year that is not the case for the most part. However, I'm still really enjoying the show and am looking forward to finding out how things get resolved in season 6. I expect that after passing up the chance to (probably) get out safely now, they'll end up getting caught or killed. 

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

That's an spot-on description of Stan.

I no longer know what to think about his storyline. Are we interpreting that look as suspicious because we want it to be? At this point I would almost prefer Renee to be a devoted girlfriend and nothing more. This question of "is she or isn't she a spy" has risen up around her character and it may be creating unnecessary questions. Frankly, this was a tease that I didn't need. 

The character of Stan has been so poorly written from early on in the show, and/or so poorly acted, that I can barely stand to watch any extended scene with Stan in it. On top of that, we get some scenes in which the direction is problematic. Who knows, maybe the FBI really does do polygraphs in the way it was portrayed last night, with the Special Agents standing behind the subject, changing expressions as the polygraph expert elicits responses, occasionally getting up to whisper stuff to the Special Agents, but I sure hope not.

[Erin9]

The ending was just so ominous to me. I can just see disaster written all over the decision to stay where they are.  It's really rather depressing imo. I doubted they'd really get to go home, but I kinda wish they had. 

No way will Philip just stick to the Kimmy assignment. And that could go sideways itself. The centre and/or Elizabeth will need him- and sooner rather that later I'm sure.  And she will burn out faster without Philip. Or she'll make a mistake she might not have otherwise. Stan clearly needs to be done too. His burnout is quieter, but very real. Blackmailing the government kinda said it all. He's done. 

This is way more ominous than last year's Paige is dating Matthew. I never bought he would bring it all down just by something she said. But trudging on when they're over it? Not good imo. 

[benteen]

5 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Excellent observations (IMO).

I have to admit the scene with Paige driving in the car completely mystified me. What the *BLEEP* was that about? I'd really like to know. It seemed so out of place and so slow.

The LONG Paige scene was to show that she wasn't scared anymore after the mugging attempt from the previous season.

Edited May 31, 2017 by benteen

[Bannon]

49 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I agree with you. I don't understand the hate for this season at all.  Maybe because this season felt like a filler season and I know how people feel about filler episodes so an entire season would probably drive some people nuts.  I however found the episode and season itself incredibly interesting.  Elizabeth and Philip are both just done.  Paige is trying to figure out who she is in a changing dynamic.  Stan personal and professional live are closing in on him.  All these things are intriguing stories but they are playing out like filler episodes so I can see how a large portion of people wouldn't like them.  

Still it isn't nothing.  This show has never been about nothing.  It's about a lot.  A very lot.  Ally all the time.  Too much. That's why everyone is so damn tired of it all.  That's why P&E want to go home but can't.

The reason this season was so less interesting to me is that the writers started including P & E in the habit of having characters turning their brains off, so the plot would go in the direction desired. Suddenly, P & E aren't bright enough to see that there isn't a damned thing about the midges and wheat that remotely resembles an American top secret plan to attack the world's other nuclear superpower, but we get the killin' couple to rub out another poor slob with irregular work habits, so Phil's internal conflict grows. Ugh. Phil and Liz suddenly are so clueless that they do a home invasion on Miss Nazi Collaborator with Venereal Disease of 1942, and then interrogate her in the home, not bothering to grab a picture from early on in her arrival as a refugee, so as to make sure the innocent husband can be yet another homicide victim by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Internal conflict mounts! Ugh. This episode, they have Phil so confident in his predictive abilities with regard to American teenagers that he is willing to be the creepy middle aged guy who hangs out, supplies pot, and gives back rubs to a crowd of them in the home of his CIA target. Why not have a billboard put up on the beltway put up which sez "Hey, teens of parents with highly classified jobs, free pot and backrubs next Tuesday! Call KGB-USSR! But don't tell the grown ups!" Let's not forget the same stunt, stupidly overestimating the ability to predict future behavior of targets, with regard to the good pastor, in telling him of the plan to relocate to the USSR, with Paige and Henry in tow. Ugh.

That's why I hated this season.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Bannon
Spelling

[Erin9]

1 hour ago, renatae said:

And, ugh, wouldn't if be awful if Tuan's "someone else" wound up being her if her scenario of semi-retiring Philip comes to pass!

I felt the "reason" for Philip to continue on in the States was a little weak. Seems to me all he has to do is show up with some young hunk agent at Kimmy's a few times and she would probably be only too happy to take on a new boyfriend.

Can't see that happening, but ugh, what a thought! 

I think the reason Philip has been able to maintain Kimmy as an asset is that he isn't dating her. Instead, he's her confidant and friend. Much more sustainable over the years. Especially in a teenage girl Imo. Philip having to stay over the promotion is very believable imo. He has an established relationship with her already. It works. Why risk it? She might not take to someone else as well. Or at all. Philip's problem is, and likely will continue to be, is that he is very good at what he does. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Erin9

[MisterBluxom]

20 minutes ago, benteen said:

The LONG Paige scene was to show that she wasn't scared anymore after the mugging attempt from the previous season.

I think that's right.  Thank you.

[MisterBluxom]

37 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

No way will Philip just stick to the Kimmy assignment. And that could go sideways itself.

Remember in one of the very first episodes when Philip learned some Russian Colonel had raped E many, many years ago? E struggled mighty hard to convince him to just leave it alone. But Phillip could barely control his anger and ultimately he killed the man with his bare hands.

I have to agree with you about, "No way will Philip just stick to the Kimmy .. ".  The first time that E gets into some kind of trouble -- especially if some man puts his hands on her -- you just got to know he will be unable to let that slide. Just remember in that early episode, P & E were not nearly as close as they are now. So, I think Philip feels even more protective towards her now than he did then.

Edited May 31, 2017 by MissBluxom

[teddysmom]

At least I finally know the words to "Yellow Brick Road". Note to self: you really were high a lot in the 70s weren't you?

Maybe E can team up with Tuan and their cover can be counselors at a Suicide Prevention Hot Line.

Too soon?

[MisterBluxom]

44 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The reason this season was so less interesting to me is that the writers started including P & E in the habit of having characters turning their brains off, so the plot would go in the direction desired. .....

You have posted several times that P&E (as well as other characters in this show) cannot possibly behave in the way they do if they are supposed to be as skilled as they are and as adept at their jobs as they are.

You make your arguments very well and I can't recall any time that I've ever substantially disagreed with what you've said.

I'm interested in trying to understand why this has happened. Is it possible that as the writers create situations that are increasingly more complicated and as P & E have to juggle more and more of these situations concurrently, that it's just too difficult to write them anywhere near to the level of realism they would be if they were actual real life agents?

I also wonder if there are any other factors beyond the two in the above paragraph that make it increasingly difficult on the writers to maintain the same level of excitement as they did in the first two seasons?

After all, as I recall, both of the showrunners have worked in this field and so they probably understand the effect of managing more and more cases simultaneously and having to deal with what happens when one or more of them blows up in some unexpected direction.

I'd be interested in asking your opinion why P&E appear as if they've turned off much of their brain power? Do you think the writers have just gotten to the "burn out" stage themselves or are they just getting lazy or have they just run out of good story lines?

This seems to me to be a real puzzle - for sure!

Edited May 31, 2017 by MissBluxom