S02.E22: Nevertheless, She Persisted

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

Because I am really bad about searching for this stuff, does anyone know if a gif exists of Winn mouthing "I love you" to Superman?  Because that was the comedic highlight of the show.

Loved, loved, loved the fight between Supergirl and Superman.   Mr. D and I were both saddened by Rhea's death.  We were hoping they'd keep her around (locked up) for the snark factor alone.

I would love for the baby to be Lena Luther, but I have a feeling it's not.  There was so much hype about who was in the betta fish lifeboat last year, and it turned out to be way less interesting than we'd hoped, so I'm not getting my hopes up for something awesome.  I am also trying to stay spoiler-free...

All in all, good episode.  If only the whole season had been as interesting as the last few episodes...

Never mind.  Found it. :)

I wondered whether I'd imagined that.  Winn's mancrush on Superman is beyond adorable.  This is why I was certain that Winn, not Alex, would turn out to be gay.

[CletusMusashi]

On 5/22/2017 at 9:00 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I guess it's inevitable that this is also now Mon-El's show. He's now the leading man. 

He's not the lead man. He's the fleeing-because-he-can't-breathe-lead-man.

[legaleagle53]

3 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

He's not the lead man. He's the fleeing-because-he-can't-breathe-lead-man.

I see what you did there -- I think.

[CletusMusashi]

On 5/22/2017 at 10:48 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

Didn't they have a spaceship they could have used to transport Mon-El instead of making him fly off in the spaceship equivalent of a Mini-Cooper? 

I want to see that crappy little spaceship every week. It looks like an albino Siamese fighting fish had sex with a shoe! I love it!  Not quite sure why flying away in that thing was supposed to keep the air from killing Monorail, though. "The atmosphere is now toxic! I know! I'll fill this giant fishy-shoe with toxic air and fly into space with it! Where I will... continue breathing the same exact toxic air..." I'm gonna guess Supergirl didn't choose that guy for his intellect.

[CletusMusashi]

Here's my thoughts on the Superfight. I tried, I really did, to fanwank something along the lines of "A Kryptonian on Earth has the strength of a human their size and build, plus, say, one million horsepower or whatever." So the fact that Clark was built stronger than Kara would mean so little as to be meaningless. I can even stretch it to assuming that it's normal for men to grow larger than women, and they tend, all things being equal, to grow more upper-body muscle, so the difference could be written off as simply signs of normal health.. except that this is a ridiculously muscular Superman.

Kara looks like a healthy young woman who exercises a few times a week. Clark looks like a bodybuilder who spends four hours at a time lifting huge, huge weights. Frequently. And other krytponian males that we've seen did not look like that. So he's obviously doing some kind of extreme strength-building. What does he lift? Aircraft carriers?

The best I can offer as an explanation is that 'stronger" simply meant "able to win." Kara has spent an indeterminate amount of time, with her powers turned off, sparring with Alex and Jonn. Clark's been doing a lot of strength training, but hasn't really had much in the way of fighting practice, because he has traditionally distrusted the DEO but in the outside world he really has nobody to train with. He generally wins by having a Kryptonian ability that his opponent is entirely lacking in. Kara, meanwhile, is taught to not always expect to be the superest fighter in the room.

Although none of that explains how later on Queen Lois was able to put up such a fight. Except that she had kryptonite. Except that kryptonite doesn't really matter that much anyway! WTF?

And speaking of kryptonite complaints, let me see if I understand this one. Silver kryptonite causes Kryptonians to see their cousin as their most feared enemy. Not anybody else in the room. They don't see  whole city full of General Zods or anything. Nope. It just makes them see their cousin that way. Holy oddly specific radiation effects, Batm.. um, Supergirl! Is there also a mauve kryptonite that causes left-handed Kryptonians with hats on to be allergic to small brown dogs on the third Wednesday of the month? Or a fuschia kryptonite that makes them fart twice whenever a baseball team scores?

Edited May 25, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[ottoDbusdriver]

8 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

And speaking of kryptonite complaints, let me see if I understand this one. Silver kryptonite causes Kryptonians to see their cousin as their most feared enemy. Not anybody else in the room. They don't see  whole city full of General Zods or anything. Nope. It just makes them see their cousin that way. Holy oddly specific radiation effects, Batm.. um, Supergirl! Is there also a mauve kryptonite that causes left-handed Kryptonians with hats on to be allergic to small brown dogs on the third Wednesday of the month? Or a fuschia krtptonite that makes them fart twice whenever a baseball team scores?

Does taupe kryptonite have a soothing effect ?  Does tartan kryptonite make you act Scottish ?  

Personally I'm hoping for salted caramel kryptonite -- it's tasty, and gives you a sense of entitlement.  :)

[Perfect Xero]

The Daxamites should have been the perfect villain for the show. They are strong and tough enough to be a physical threat to Kara, her cousin, and J'onn. Yet their weakness to lead should allow for normal humans like Alex, Maggie, and James to contribute in fights against them without ridiculous plot tricks.

Last season Kara, Alex, and a DEO squad would face off against a dozen Kryptonians, yet this season Alex and the DEO are mostly sidelined and only the people with superpowers get to do much of anything.

[bros402]

4 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

I want to see that crappy little spaceship every week. It looks like an albino Siamese fighting fish had sex with a shoe! I love it!  Not quite sure why flying away in that thing was supposed to keep the air from killing Monorail, though. "The atmosphere is now toxic! I know! I'll fill this giant fishy-shoe with toxic air and fly into space with it! Where I will... continue breathing the same exact toxic air..." I'm gonna guess Supergirl didn't choose that guy for his intellect.

I'm guessing the pod has life support in it and starts pumping in its own Kryptonian friendly air once it is closed.

[tofutan]

I just find it so amusing that on most other shows I watch all the fans complain about is how every supporting character's life only revolves around the lead character and they never get their own storylines and POV and on Supergirl it's just the opposite. I still think Winn benefitted the most of the change. Yes, they broke up the Kara/Winn/James at Catco unit, but in exchange Winn got to interact with a lot of other characters (like Superman, J'onn, Lena), got to be a hero plenty of times, got a romance, etc. It has expanded him a lot as a character. 

[legaleagle53]

9 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

And speaking of kryptonite complaints, let me see if I understand this one. Silver kryptonite causes Kryptonians to see their cousin as their most feared enemy. Not anybody else in the room. They don't see  whole city full of General Zods or anything. Nope. It just makes them see their cousin that way. Holy oddly specific radiation effects, Batm.. um, Supergirl! Is there also a mauve kryptonite that causes left-handed Kryptonians with hats on to be allergic to small brown dogs on the third Wednesday of the month? Or a fuschia kryptonite that makes them fart twice whenever a baseball team scores?

In the comics, at least, the classic varieties of Kryptonite are green (deadly to Kryptonians), red (has weird, unpredictable effects on Kryptonians that usually last about 24 hours and are specific to a given piece of red Kryptonite), gold (fairly rare, but it's one of the worst because it permanently destroys a Kryptonian's superpowers), white (also rare; harmless to Kryptonians, but fatal to any and all plant life), blue (harmless to Kryptonians, but fatal to super-powered Bizarros just as green Kryptonite is fatal to Kryptonians), and jewel Kryptonite (also rare, but gives its user telepathic powers, if I remember correctly).  Silver Kryptonite doesn't exist. The one time "silver Kryptonite" made its appearance in the comics, it was part of a practical joke played on Superman by his friends to commemorate the 25th anniversary of his arrival on Earth (silver anniversary -- get it?).

Oh, a couple of other fun facts about red Kryptonite:  In the comics (particularly the Silver Age, which is when most of these varieties of Kryptonite were introduced), the same piece of red Kryptonite would affect any Kryptonian exposed to it in exactly the same way.  For example, if a piece of red Kryptonite turned Superman into a baby, it would also turn Supergirl into a baby.  One of my favorite Silver Age stories, in fact, involved an accidental exposure to red Kryptonite dust that put Superman, Supergirl, and Krypto into a deep sleep and gave them all the same super-nightmare that Superman had accidentally destroyed Earth when he dismantled an alien machine to see how it worked.

Also, once exposed to a particular piece or form of red Kryptonite, a Kryptonian becomes immune to it after the weird effect of exposure to it has worn off.  In other words, no particular piece or form of red Kryptonite can ever have the same effect twice.

Edited May 25, 2017 by legaleagle53

[legaleagle53]

6 hours ago, tofutan said:

I just find it so amusing that on most other shows I watch all the fans complain about is how every supporting character's life only revolves around the lead character and they never get their own storylines and POV and on Supergirl it's just the opposite. I still think Winn benefitted the most of the change. Yes, they broke up the Kara/Winn/James at Catco unit, but in exchange Winn got to interact with a lot of other characters (like Superman, J'onn, Lena), got to be a hero plenty of times, got a romance, etc. It has expanded him a lot as a character. 

I have to agree there. Winn really was overqualified for his job at Catco and is a much better fit for the DEO.  He's one of my favorite characters on the show (and did I mention that I find his mancrush on Superman to be one of the most endearing things about him?).

[Oreo2234]

Quote

The Daxamites should have been the perfect villain for the show. They are strong and tough enough to be a physical threat to Kara, her cousin, and J'onn. Yet their weakness to lead should allow for normal humans like Alex, Maggie, and James to contribute in fights against them without ridiculous plot tricks.

Last season Kara, Alex, and a DEO squad would face off against a dozen Kryptonians, yet this season Alex and the DEO are mostly sidelined and only the people with superpowers get to do much of anything.

What makes it even worse is that Alex now has a powerful gun capable of taking down many aliens.

[JapMo]

13 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Despite his far greater powers, what successes has Mon-El had as a hero? Are they any more than Jimmy, Winn, or Maggie have done? I suppose there's an argument to be made that even attempting to help out in cases like Parasite and Live Wire is heroic, regardless of the results. But still...

The show understates his powers because that would take away from Supergirl...and she is the main superpower focus.  Yes, despite the ongoing complaints that Mon-El's presence takes away all the attention from her, he's just a prop to support her.  Because he has superpowers, his heroic actions aren't as much an accomplishment as say when Winn or Jimmy or Maggie do something, because they are mere mortals.  He doesn't go out alone like Jimmy did.  He's always stuck to her side like glue, and so any real heroics are hers, as it should be.

Even when he should have been the main focus with his parents, because...let's face it he knew a lot more than Kara as to what kind of people they were....the show still had her interacting the most with Rhea, and botching things up, I might add.  If she would have let Mon-El handle it in the first place, like he requested, he probably would have found a way to get rid of them.  Or at least done a much better job than the full on attack she provoked.   

[Delphi]

I had really hoped that Winn would have been the one to come out,  I actually feel robbed.   I can't even call it a mancrush, it honestly comes off to me as full blown infatuation crush.   And I'm here for that. 

[Bruinsfan]

I can't complain about the way that turned out, Chyler Leigh knocked it out of the park for Alex's coming out story, and I strongly suspect if it had been Winn who came out he'd have been relegated to the chaste comedic sidekick role rather than actually being allowed to have a love life, let alone having said love life feature as the B plot in some episodes.

That said, I wouldn't object to a scene down the line where Winn confesses that being around Superman gave him confusing feelings and Alex says "yeah, he has that effect on everyone."

[NatalieEGH]

1.  I feel vindicated for my comments about making Earth uninhabitable to the Daxamites by poisoning the atmosphere.  I am not positive but I believe it was with lead.

2.  On the subject of being able to see through lead.  Trying to describe a real reason for not seeing most things through lead.  I am quite sure both Superman and Supergirl can see through lead, even thick lead.  The problem is what would they see.  Assuming the xray vision is similar to real xrays, most of the rays are blocked by lead at levels such as used for medical diagnosis.  Most not all.  The problem becomes the only way to really see something on the other side of lead with xrays is the material must be denser than lead.  Otherwise the sensitivity of the viewer must be very very extreme to pick up the fine nuances of whatever is so heavily shadowed by the lead material.  It is sort of like if you were to have a fish tank filled with water and drop in some diamonds.  They become almost invisible because the refractive index is almost identical to water.  So except for very thin lead foil or maybe lead plating, the amount of energy of the xrays required to penetrate would completely pass through the what is on the other side unhindered.

3.  Super hearing, in no way should lead affect the hearing.  I do not know the thickness required for the sound to be completely damped to levels that it cannot be heard but the hearing of Superman and Supergirl should be able to hear a pin drop inside a recording studio if close enough to the studio and assuming active noise reduction is not being used and very very well matched to actual sound.

4.  In no way should lead be unable to be affected by "heat vision".  From what I understand that is just a focusing of a beam of "heat"/"light" like a laser.  The lead should melt as fast as any other substance with a similar melting point.  On the subject of heat vision, the battles where party A shoots beams of heat at party B who shoots back and they meet in the middle canceling each out.  I believe that would only be possible if the amplitute and frequency of the emitted light/radiation are perfectly opposites of each other, like with active noise reduction.  Otherwise I would except the beams to pass through each other with some points amplifying becoming warmer and some suppressing becoming cooler until they strike both parties eyes.  The decree of change in temperature would depend upon both the degree the beams are synchronized at each point and the amplitude of the beams at each point.

5.  Wynn saying I love you to Superman, I suspect is completely asexual in the same way one might say I love pizza or music or Steven King books.  Winn has at no time shown any homosexual tendencies and has in fact been geeky heterosexual even to his girlfriend.  He reminds me of Lewis Skolnick in Revenge of the Nerds.

6.  I just realized, Monel is being called Monel.  He was in the comics given that name by Superman/Superboy (2 different stories) because he (they?) thought he was their big brother.  The name was Mon-El as in Kara Zor-El and Kal-El.  The El part was the family name of Superman's family.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, NatalieEGH said:

1.  I feel vindicated for my comments about making Earth uninhabitable to the Daxamites by poisoning the atmosphere.  I am not positive but I believe it was with lead.

2.  On the subject of being able to see through lead.  Trying to describe a real reason for not seeing most things through lead.  I am quite sure both Superman and Supergirl can see through lead, even thick lead.  The problem is what would they see.  Assuming the xray vision is similar to real xrays, most of the rays are blocked by lead at levels such as used for medical diagnosis.  Most not all.  The problem becomes the only way to really see something on the other side of lead with xrays is the material must be denser than lead.  Otherwise the sensitivity of the viewer must be very very extreme to pick up the fine nuances of whatever is so heavily shadowed by the lead material.  It is sort of like if you were to have a fish tank filled with water and drop in some diamonds.  They become almost invisible because the refractive index is almost identical to water.  So except for very thin lead foil or maybe lead plating, the amount of energy of the xrays required to penetrate would completely pass through the what is on the other side unhindered.

3.  Super hearing, in no way should lead affect the hearing.  I do not know the thickness required for the sound to be completely damped to levels that it cannot be heard but the hearing of Superman and Supergirl should be able to hear a pin drop inside a recording studio if close enough to the studio and assuming active noise reduction is not being used and very very well matched to actual sound.

4.  In no way should lead be unable to be affected by "heat vision".  From what I understand that is just a focusing of a beam of "heat"/"light" like a laser.  The lead should melt as fast as any other substance with a similar melting point.  On the subject of heat vision, the battles where party A shoots beams of heat at party B who shoots back and they meet in the middle canceling each out.  I believe that would only be possible if the amplitute and frequency of the emitted light/radiation are perfectly opposites of each other, like with active noise reduction.  Otherwise I would except the beams to pass through each other with some points amplifying becoming warmer and some suppressing becoming cooler until they strike both parties eyes.  The decree of change in temperature would depend upon both the degree the beams are synchronized at each point and the amplitude of the beams at each point.

5.  Wynn saying I love you to Superman, I suspect is completely asexual in the same way one might say I love pizza or music or Steven King books.  Winn has at no time shown any homosexual tendencies and has in fact been geeky heterosexual even to his girlfriend.  He reminds me of Lewis Skolnick in Revenge of the Nerds.

My response:

1.  Yes, it was with lead particles, in too low a dose to harm humans, but enough to be fatal to Daxamites, to whom even a little lead is as fatal to them as green Kryptonite is to Kryptonians.  That's been comic-book canon for at least 50 years now.

2-4.  The limitations regarding lead have also been comic-book canon for at least 50 years.  It has been stated and shown over and over again in that time frame that lead is the one substance that is completely impervious to Kryptonian heat vision and x-ray vision and super-hearing, so the show writers didn't just pull that one out of their asses.  That's simply the way it's always been.  The only way to use heat vision to melt lead, for example, is to heat something up nearby to a temperature hot enough to melt it indirectly.

5.  Alex never showed any lesbian tendencies either during Season 1, until it was suddenly decided that she should be the token gay character starting in Season 2.  So there is no reason to conclude that Winn doesn't also have latent homosexual tendencies simply because he's only dated females up until now.  After all, Alex had only dated men until she met Maggie.

6.  Mon-El's name is Mon-El, not Monel.  Again, the show is following comic-book canon as far as the spelling is concerned, even though the origin of the name (and of Mon-El himself) is completely different from what it was in the comics.  You are correct, however, that in the comics, Mon-El got his name from Superboy because they met on a Monday and Superboy at that time thought he was a long-lost older brother.  Mon-El himself had amnesia and didn't remember his real name and origin (Lar Gand of Daxam) until accidental exposure to lead restored his memory while at the same time poisoning him.

Edited May 26, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

2-4.  The limitations regarding lead have also been comic-book canon for at least 50 years.  It has been stated and shown over and over again in that time frame that lead is the one substance that is completely impervious to Kryptonian heat vision and x-ray vision and super-hearing, so the show writers didn't just pull that one out of their asses.  That's simply the way it's always been.  The only way to use heat vision to melt lead, for example, is to heat something up nearby to a temperature hot enough to melt it indirectly.

Can you think of some specific examples from the last 50 years where a Kryptonian could not melt lead or hear through lead? 

[legaleagle53]

21 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Can you think of some specific examples from the last 50 years where a Kryptonian could not melt lead or hear through lead? 

I do know of at least one instance when heat vision couldn't melt lead.  Google "The Duel Between Superwoman and Superboy."  As for whether or not it's actually been canon, perhaps this will help:  https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110310235154AA2WxNo

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/24/2017 at 10:43 PM, CletusMusashi said:

Here's my thoughts on the Superfight. I tried, I really did, to fanwank something along the lines of "A Kryptonian on Earth has the strength of a human their size and build, plus, say, one million horsepower or whatever." So the fact that Clark was built stronger than Kara would mean so little as to be meaningless. I can even stretch it to assuming that it's normal for men to grow larger than women, and they tend, all things being equal, to grow more upper-body muscle, so the difference could be written off as simply signs of normal health.. except that this is a ridiculously muscular Superman.

Kara looks like a healthy young woman who exercises a few times a week. Clark looks like a bodybuilder who spends four hours at a time lifting huge, huge weights. Frequently. And other krytponian males that we've seen did not look like that. So he's obviously doing some kind of extreme strength-building. What does he lift? Aircraft carriers?

The best I can offer as an explanation is that 'stronger" simply meant "able to win." Kara has spent an indeterminate amount of time, with her powers turned off, sparring with Alex and Jonn. Clark's been doing a lot of strength training, but hasn't really had much in the way of fighting practice, because he has traditionally distrusted the DEO but in the outside world he really has nobody to train with. He generally wins by having a Kryptonian ability that his opponent is entirely lacking in. Kara, meanwhile, is taught to not always expect to be the superest fighter in the room.

It's safe to say that Superman has at least 10 years more experience than Supergirl at fighting all sorts of foes in real life. That experience should be way more powerful than the sparring sessions that Supergirl has had. 

I don't find the actor who plays Superman in the show to be any more muscle-y than either the other male members of the cast except Winn, or than the typical live-action Supermen. The only one I'd say he has more muscles than is Dean Cain.

7 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I do know of at least one instance when heat vision couldn't melt lead.  Google "The Duel Between Superwoman and Superboy."  As for whether or not it's actually been canon, perhaps this will help:  https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110310235154AA2WxNo

I came across that link when I was looking at the subject as well, but don't find it particularly convincing. Superman's power levels have changed over the years and so "canon" is a hard term to apply. I would say an imaginary story doesn't count. I would say only things established in multiple versions of the character would count as canon. So the notion that Superman can't see through lead has been a staple of the character, and one can cite to multiple sources where it is explicitly stated that he can't see through lead. 

So sure, there's possibly been an issue where some writer in the 50s or 60s had Superboy/Superman/Supergirl unable to melt something that's lead or hear through lead. 

I Googled "The Duel Between Superwoman and Superboy" and didn't find anything after clicking through several of the links about Kryptonians being unable to melt or hear through lead. What I did find was that it was some sort of imaginary story. If there's a specific link that discusses the lead issue, though, I'd be curious.

[Bruinsfan]

Yeah, the unable to melt lead thing is a new one on me as well, and I've been reading Superman comics since the mid 70s. It also makes no sense why a metal with a low melting point would be unaffected by heat that can vaporize steel. At least with the blocking X-rays and muffling sound I can kind of squint and see why a very dense, soft metal might work better than other materials.

I also think the show is really weird about how it presented the Daxamites' lead vulnerability. Lead's not a radioactive material like kryptonite, it shouldn't be able to compromise their invulnerability until it physically gets into their systems and has time to mess things up. So their skin should still be impenetrable at the time bullets hit them (and ricochet off), though if traces of the material remain behind or get breathed in it would be building to the point where the poisoning effect kicks in.

[CletusMusashi]

All the problems we have with lead could have been avoided if the writers had simply replaced the word "lead" with word "daxomite." And called the people themselves Daxomians or something. OK, sure, daxomite wouldn't be common enough to make bullets out of, but since they're not meant to be quite as powerful as Kryptonians anyway you could still make it so that things that would be very, very fatal to a human be a painful inconvenience to them. Say, a bullet to the midsection could knock the wind out of them. Or a shotgun blast to the face would leave them dazed and unable to open their eyes for a minute. Heavy artillery might even kill them.  

It could have worked, because anybody who watches a show like this one understands that there's going to have to be a lot of suspension of disbelief. But... spreading lead through the earth's atmosphere instantaneously means blasting out lead particles very, very quickly. I don't care how tiny those particles are, there should be deaths, injuries, and broken windows all over the city from that. 

[The Crazed Spruce]

We're getting way off-track here. You should probably move this discussion about Kara's heat vision to the "Keeping Up With The Kryptonians" thread.

[BooBear]

On 5/23/2017 at 9:25 AM, benteen said:

Wow, what subtlety with the title of this episode.  I wonder if the show will "treat" viewers to another year long hissy fit about the election next season.  It's proven to be the creative team's only priority for this show.

Yes. Disgusting. Should other shows follow suit and title their episodes popular twitter sayings of the time?  Season 3 opener "Elizabeth Warren".

I stopped watching but I had to come back for Tyler Hoechlin. I hope he doesn't make a habit of this role or do a Superman series. I think he needs to fire his manager as he should be much bigger by now.

I don't want to rehash the thread but - I was surprised that Superman didn't hug Kara before he departed. I was annoyed that Superman had to take such a back role to Kara here. Clearly an invasion is something to worry about but he was all * let Kara do it *. He was basically acting as a cheerleader. What was he even there for? It doesn't empower Kara to make Superman have to hold back to highlight her. Mon-el even seemed worse standing next to Superman. 

Mon-el is such a waste of space. When he went off to be his hero did he just basically take out one or two of the Daximites? Couldn't DEO probably could have done that.  It is sad and hard to believe that Kara would be in love with him. A lot of what she said though seemed to suggest it was more about having someone just for her (presumably who wasn't human).  Since real life Melissa and Chris are an item I think we aren't getting rid of him until they break up *crossing fingers* it happens over the summer. 

Calista and Cat are always great. But, I feel like we missed the opportunity for her to give Kara a speech about how she is letting her relationship interfere with her work and also, if Cat knows that she is Supergirl she knows how lame all of her stories were this year and how little effort it took to get them. Kind of irks me that Cat was tolerating that and encouraging such laziness. 

I wasn't a big fan of James but I would prefer him to Mon-el. They need to work on a story for him or write him off. Jon is also getting the shaft. Get rid of his Martian buddies.  They were hardly used and useless. I like Lena but I do not understand what he role is or is going to be.  If she is BFF to Kara... they need to do more together.  

[Ottis]

Wow, they made a big deal of Kara beating Superman at full strength. They know their viewing audience. Once the fight started I fast forwarded through it, because irrelevant. 

Wouldn't Daxanites have the technology to terraform?

i just realized that I don't know what Jon Jones does that makes a difference. He never beats anyone handily. They need him to be like Hulk, where the angrier he gets, the more powerful he is, to counter his strategic focus. Like Kara is powered by optimism and goodness.

That was a ridiculous place for Supergirl and Rhea to battle. How about an open field? Because Rhea cheated and attacked the city, their battle was pointless as well. 

Mon El defeating Daxam, one soldier at a time. Maybe we should go after the ships?

Loved the White Martians. The air borne leads affect was silly. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by Ottis

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

That was a ridiculous place for Supergirl and Rhea to battle. How about an open field? Because Rhea cheated and attacked the city, their battle was pointless as well. 

Not really.  Supergirl had anticipated that Rhea would cheat (she'd already learned that lesson from dealing with Lillian), which is why Plan B (the lead particles) had been in place even before the battle between her and Rhea took place.  And Supergirl even knew that Lillian would try to cheat by jumping the gun, which is why she had Winn give the remote control of the device to her (Supergirl) so that the decision to launch the lead particles would be Supergirl's and Supergirl's alone.  Supergirl challenged Rhea to that battle partly as a way of buying more time to put Plan B into place and also partly because even though she didn't expect Rhea to live up to her end of the deal, she at least hoped that having Mon-El in her corner might convince Rhea to live up to it anyway.

Edited May 28, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Ottis]

10 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Not really.  Supergirl had anticipated that Rhea would cheat (she'd already learned that lesson from dealing with Lillian), which is why Plan B (the lead particles) had been in place even before the battle between her and Rhea took place.  And Supergirl even knew that Lillian would try to cheat by jumping the gun, which is why she had Winn give the remote control of the device to her (Supergirl) so that the decision to launch the lead particles would be Supergirl's and Supergirl's alone.  Supergirl challenged Rhea to that battle partly as a way of buying more time to put Plan B into place and also partly because even though she didn't expect Rhea to live up to her end of the deal, she at least hoped that having Mon-El in her corner might convince Rhea to live up to it anyway.

Which made the battle between Rhea and Supergirl pointless, especially to the viewers. If both sides had alternate plans, that pretty much is the definition of pointless for the battle. It didn't mean anything to the combatants, or to the viewers. The real action was happening elsewhere. We could have skipped the battle and let everything else play out as it did. 

[Bruinsfan]

Sidebar, I want to know how exactly Rhea ended up with enough kryptonite in her blood to turn it green and weaken Kara as soon as her skin was punctured. Was she eating the stuff?

[MarkHB]

3 hours ago, Ottis said:

Which made the battle between Rhea and Supergirl pointless, especially to the viewers. If both sides had alternate plans, that pretty much is the definition of pointless for the battle. It didn't mean anything to the combatants, or to the viewers. The real action was happening elsewhere. We could have skipped the battle and let everything else play out as it did. 

Some of us watch the show for 85% punching :) .  And I thought these were both pretty well done, particularly the brawl between Kal and Kara.

[John Potts]

Decent enough Finale - not great, but at least it really did centre on Supergirl and not anyone else. And they didn't stint on that expensive super-action as not only did she get two big fights, but all her Superfriends got engaged too. Loved the confirmation that Cat knows Kara=Supergirl, because otherwise that scene would have been bizarre - no way does Cat Grant take five minutes out of her day to soothe her underlings feelings when they should be getting the story, but she would allow Supergirl time to cry over her breakup when she'd just saved the world. And since IIRC, Kara has said that Clark is her cousin (as well as Supergirl/Superman being cousins), presumably Cat realised that Clark=Superman, too and that she was just trolling Kara about how she'd like to get some of that Clark action.

One thing that struck me in the fight with Queen Lois - if your opponent is bleeding Kryptonite, maybe you should consider Eye-jaculating on her from distance rather than grappling with her? As far as we know, Daxamites are just as vulnerable as others to that. Even making a few of those "power dive" punches would be better than getting in close and brawling (you want to minimise contact, so concentrate on making fewer blows but ones that hurt as much as possible).

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 2:18 AM, stealinghome said:

Also, wtf on the Sanvers proposal? I mean, I love Sanvers, but…wtf?

I thought I was fair enough - they're both in jobs where they risk death daily and they'd just survived a near death experience. Proposals, weddings & hook ups happen a lot in similar situations.

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 2:11 AM, Primal Slayer said:

[fill] the Earths atmosphere permanently with lead.....even a small amount that somehow won't effect humans just doesn't gel with me.

I would have preferred if Lena (or Lillian) had set off the device when it was clear Queen Lois was cheating and keep Kara's hands "clean" - also, it would have made more sense to say, "A 10% higher risk of cancer is a small price to pay for freedom!" (or whatever the effect would be). I can accept a handwave of how a tiny box can alter the entire atmosphere, I'd like some indication it's not entirely benign. They could even have Lena reprogram it again to remove the lead once the Daxamies had retreated to keep the damage down to a minimum (though it would probably still cause a handful of deaths).

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 3:10 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Man, Lex is going to be so pissed if he finds out that Zod is who Superman considers to be his greatest enemy.

Like the Joker in Lego Batman!