S03.E06: The Lord of No Mercy

[Christina]

3 hours ago, welcomerain said:

It's not an accurate spoiler anyway. Keyser Soze brains her with a sled called "Rosebud", but it turns out that she IS Keyser Soze and they founded Fight Club together.

Too bad I'm not watching that show, because not one person in this one has drawn me in. Kill them all, let them all live, meh.

[MisterBluxom]

11 hours ago, Stratego said:

Juxtaposing Mrs. Goldfarb's comments to Sy ("you don't want to make an enemy of a Goldfarb") and Varga finding Emmitt's parking lot company  from "afar", I believe that Varga is working for Mrs. Goldfarb so she can buy the company--and "for cheap".

I want to congratulate you for offering up this possibility (assuming you were the first person to suggest this). That is really clever - verging on being brilliant.  If it turns out to be true, I will try to organize getting you a trophy of some kind. (maybe "Best Original Thought on Fargo Season 3).  Well, maybe not a real trophy. But at least some serious recognition. You will deserve that.

Very well done!  I'm amazed no one else seems to have come to this same conclusion. (I apologize if I missed anyone who did).

IMHO, you should post more of your thoughts here.

Edited May 27, 2017 by MissBluxom

[AzureOwl]

8 hours ago, welcomerain said:

I disagree with your analysis of Gloria's position. She has been ordered to take leave. She has been ordered to abandon this investigation. She has no authority to assist Lopez with anything, she has no authority to pursue an obviously related investigation, she has no authority period. She's in St. Cloud? I believe that would be called "out of her jurisdiction".

The thing is, Dammik keeps giving her orders, and she keeps ignoring them. I think we will know for sure next episode, but everything about her behavior tells me that she's holding unto the technicality that she is still chief to defy him.

As for the jurisdictional issue, it's telling that in every interview she's conducted in St. Cloud besides her original meeting with Ray, she has been with Lopez.

[qtpye]

On 5/25/2017 at 2:06 PM, luna1122 said:

Nikki is an amoral murderer but I still held my breath when Meemo was waiting in the hotel room for her. Did she really go off and leave the door open? wtf?

It was Stalin, wasn't it?

He absolutely did.

I was surprised that Ray died last night, and certainly at the way he died. He'd been annoying me the entire episode, with his impotent bluster ("Those guys had better sure be glad I didn't get my hands on them!". Yeah, sure, Ray.) and then his not just taking the stupid stamp and letting it all go, but I still felt kind of sad for him, and for Emmit.

I had to look away during Vargas' bloody teeth scene. So gross.

Loved Gloria's steely gaze with Vargas.

I love the actress who plays Nikki and think she is quite talented.  This episode made me feel like she truly loves Ray.  However, she is a cold blooded survivor and I feel she might be okay in all of this.  If Nikki survives she definitely will move on with her life.    I would not be surprised if Nikki ends up with the stamp (and that is probably what stupid Ray would want).   

I also love Ewan M, but I think it was a mistake to cast him in a double role.  I do not think he has succeeded in making Ray and Emit into two separate characters.  One is Ewan M in a bad wig and the other is Ewan M in a bald cap and sad sack make up.  It gives the whole show a bit of a juvenile parent trap vibe.

[Gobi]

25 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I love the actress who plays Nikki and think she is quite talented.  This episode made me feel like she truly loves Ray.  However, she is a cold blooded survivor and I feel she might be okay in all of this.  If Nikki survives she definitely will move on with her life.    I would not be surprised if Nikki ends up with the stamp (and that is probably what stupid Ray would want).   

I also love Ewan M, but I think it was a mistake to cast him in a double role.  I do not think he has succeeded in making Ray and Emit into two separate characters.  One is Ewan M in a bad wig and the other is Ewan M in a bald cap and sad sack make up.  It gives the whole show a bit of a juvenile parent trap vibe.

A friend of mine, who's no dummy, didn't realize Ewan M was playing both brothers. YMMV, I suppose.

[Doyounot]

Great episode! Damn ray just couldnt get out of his own way. He forgets the cash, and wouldnt just take the damn stamp! Nikki seemed alot more chill about the forgetting the cash stupidness than i thought she would but then again the whole time she has been so good at telling him stuff without making him feel stupid. Like rephrasing involuntary, telling him to use cash for the pills, and then asking if she should go get it. Also i thought it was so funny how proud she was of him that he knew of a motel that took cash! I feel bad for her being set up the way she is because it fits so well.

Also the way she stopped him from trying to shoot varga and his men (getting himself killed) was good she wants payback too "maybe" even more than him! I donno how to look at that on one hand he hated seeing her hurting and loved her so much that he wanted to kill someone on the other hand it was about him and how they did that to him by hurting "his girl". Either way though she was right that its only a "maybe"!

I thought sy was funny after listening to vargas stories "what!?" And also gloria after his story exactly 24?

Varga and his whole organization are so good at dealing with law enforcement first irs then cops but gloria is gonna be a problem for them. Picking his teeth was gross but his face while getting rid of the blood was perfect (first time he seemed rushed/panicked in any way).

[MisterBluxom]

On 2017-05-25 at 2:06 PM, luna1122 said:

Nikki is an amoral murderer but I still held my breath when Meemo was waiting in the hotel room for her. Did she really go off and leave the door open? wtf?

It would seem to be impossible to argue the point that Nikki is an amoral murderer. However ....

If you consider the fact that one day you (or perhaps any one of us) may find ourselves in a situation like this one - where something happens and you have to react within a few seconds - and if you choose to do nothing,  you will very likely be found guilty of Premeditated murder or of being some kind of accessory to Premeditated murder. Given that you would likely be found guilty and would face a minimum of 20 years in prison, what do you think you would do?

Before you answer, please try to keep the following in mind:

1) You only have a few seconds to react and - sad to say - if you do not push that A/C out your window killing Maurice, you will almost certainly spend your next 20 years in prison.

2) If you have never spent more than a few hours in prison, please try to imagine how awful your life will be when you serve a long prison term. Please try to accept the fact that life is unbelievably terrible when spent behind bars. I really wish that I could express this in some way that is better than the way I did.

3) You are a beautiful, sexy lady who is extremely sexy and most everything good you have ever gotten out of life is due to that.  If you spend 20 years in prison, your life will be much harder afterwards.  Please note my meaning is "all good things you get from "your" life"  ...... not "all good things that all beautiful women get from their lives" ....

By this I mean to say that it's just not true to say that beautiful women use their looks to get all the good things they get out of life and never have to work as hard as men do to get the same things from life. That's just not true.

4) It makes no difference in the eyes of the law, but Maurice is just a terrible human being and if he dies, he will not be missed nearly as much as most other people who are decent human beings. Sorry, but I just can't find a way to make this point any better than I made the second point above. Yuck! It is terribly difficult to try and make this point in this way and I'm very sorry I can't do any better than I have.

On the surface, people who react by shoving that A/C out the window, killing Maurice, deserve to spend 20 years in a prison (actually in a penitentiary which is worse than a prison).  But, people who have a good idea of just how the decision will affect the quality of their lives, will have a very difficult time resisting the urge to shove the A/C out the window with the idea of preventing Maurice from creating huge problems in their lives.  Now, that may sound fancy but it's really just plain old "murder". Just a fancy way to dress up "murder".

OK. So, what am I trying to say? It's not easy to convince you or even to ask you to consider changing your mind. However, I would have to say it just might be worth giving this decision a second thought.  IMO, people really just don't know what they would actually do if and when this kind of thing happens to them. But I have a feeling, it would be just about impossible to resist giving the A/C a good shove.

Of course, the odds of actually hitting Maurice and killing him, are much, much lower than I think they were presented to the audience. I would guess the odds are about one in one thousand that air conditioner would actually hit him and kill him.

I must admit I would be sorely tempted to do most anything to avoid going to the pen for any length of time. I'm sad to admit it, but even if the sentence was only two years, I think I would have pushed that A/C.  I'm embarrassed to admit it.  But, that is the truth.

I'd like to try and find out how many of you would prefer to do the 20 year stretch than to arrange for Maurice to die.

Edited May 27, 2017 by MissBluxom

[SoothingDave]

21 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

The IRS agent -- was it curious that he didn't follow the rules?  Should we be suspicious of him -- that maybe he wasn't IRS? 

No, it's not curious.  This is the way the IRS operates.  They can always ask for information and you can give it to them.  You may think you are following an order, but you are just "volunteering" the information.  Unless you know your rights, and fight fire with fire, you risk giving away your secrets.

This is the same reason many people say not to ever voluntarily speak to the police without a lawyer present.  

[annzeepark914]

Well, if Ray had accepted the stamp and gone back to the motel, he would have been a goner, along with Nikki so in a way, his stupidity about not accepting the stamp saved her life (altho' he lost his from the broken glass).  I have a question about the motel door.  Didn't Nikki leave it ajar just a bit when she went to get ice?  And if so, and she's being wary (she was looking over her shoulder constantly), why not lock the door behind her?  Who leaves a motel/hotel room unlocked when they go get ice?  She was being so savvy handling Ray, why wouldn't she have told him to leave the key with her?  Oh well.  The plot had to progress so I guess that's why but it doesn't go w/ her cautionary style.

[Gobi]

An argument could be made that Nikki isn't a cold blooded murderer. Maurice was supposed to burglarize a house. He was not supposed to murder anyone (a true cold blooded murder). If Minnesota has a death penalty, Maurice was going to qualify for it. Nikki may feel she just did what the State would have done. Not that seeing justice done was her first priority.

[welcomerain]

MissBluxom, I'll tell you honestly what I would have done: Nothing. Who's going to believe Maurice? What's his proof? And his story begins with an admission of murder. That won't do much for his credibility.

I'd call a lawyer posthaste and get myself clear of this. If I'm Nikki, I get myself clear. If I'm Ray, I get the both of us clear. The cops may suspect we're dirty, they might even be sure of it, but they can't prove it.

That, or I'd do nothing because I was crapping my pants in fear. Hey, you asked for honesty. But I hope I'd think of the lawyer angle during the rinse cycle.

[welcomerain]

  16 hours ago, welcomerain said:

I disagree with your analysis of Gloria's position. She has been ordered to take leave. She has been ordered to abandon this investigation. She has no authority to assist Lopez with anything, she has no authority to pursue an obviously related investigation, she has no authority period. She's in St. Cloud? I believe that would be called "out of her jurisdiction".

The thing is, Dammik keeps giving her orders, and she keeps ignoring them. I think we will know for sure next episode, but everything about her behavior tells me that she's holding unto the technicality that she is still chief to defy him.

As for the jurisdictional issue, it's telling that in every interview she's conducted in St. Cloud besides her original meeting with Ray, she has been with Lopez.

I don't think it's telling at all. It doesn't save her. She has no authority to wear that uniform, implying that she represents the Eden Valley police in this matter. Police who moonlight as security at events have to get permission to wear the uniform on that job. Unauthorized personal investigations are no less restricted.

Lopez can ask whatever questions. Burgle can't. She can ignore all the orders she likes, until the birds come home to roost. Not smart at all.

[Starchild]

17 hours ago, welcomerain said:

For that matter, has anyone seen Varga and gang do anything both illegal and profitable? That truck doesn't seem to be moving; it may contain nothing at all, its sole purpose to distract Emmit and Sy, and make them afraid to talk to the cops. If it is not moving, it is very likely not making money. If it contains contraband, it's a liability to leave it sitting unprotected.

Aren't the three of them just living in it?

 

BTW all this talk of Maurice reminds me...did we ever find out why he glued the old man's mouth and nose shut in the first place? 

[AzureOwl]

27 minutes ago, welcomerain said:

I don't think it's telling at all. It doesn't save her. She has no authority to wear that uniform, implying that she represents the Eden Valley police in this matter. Police who moonlight as security at events have to get permission to wear the uniform on that job. Unauthorized personal investigations are no less restricted.

Lopez can ask whatever questions. Burgle can't. She can ignore all the orders she likes, until the birds come home to roost. Not smart at all.

But that's my point. She does wear the uniform. She does have the authority. For a little while longer anyway. Once the transition is complete and official, she will have to wear the county sheriff's deputy uniform, as will her clueless deputy. 

Compare and contrast to her behavior on LA, which was on her own dime. There she was a lot more reluctant to use her status as a police officer to pressure people. She didn't even pack the uniform. 

14 minutes ago, Starchild said:

BTW all this talk of Maurice reminds me...did we ever find out why he glued the old man's mouth and nose shut in the first place? 

Not explicitly, but given how stupid he was, he probably tried to use is a an improvised gag.

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

Aren't the three of them just living in it?

BTW all this talk of Maurice reminds me...did we ever find out why he glued the old man's mouth and nose shut in the first place? 

Just like you, I figured they were living in that trailer.  If you recall what Varga said about being "invisible", living in that trailer is a very good way to live and remain highly invisible. Don't you think? You just need a place to park it. Maybe that was one of the reasons Varga looked to buy into a parking lot business?  Varga and the boys would have three basic needs that most of us have in modern apartments:

1) Bathroom functions - running water to handle washing and other bathroom functions (like the toilet). That is probably the most difficult of the three. It also may help explain why Varga has such terrible teeth.

2) Kitchen functions for cooking - requires a hotplate and/or some kind of oven - seems like that wouldn't be much of a problem.

3) Kitchen functions for refrigeration - you can buy a small refrigerator combined with a freezer fairly easily. This would be a very easy problem to handle.

Access to electricity and running water would be the two biggest problems to solve. Their solution would likely be similar to the way in which people with RVs hook up in RV parking areas.

Edited May 28, 2017 by MissBluxom

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

I love the actress who plays Nikki and think she is quite talented.  This episode made me feel like she truly loves Ray.  However, she is a cold blooded survivor and I feel she might be okay in all of this.  If Nikki survives she definitely will move on with her life.    I would not be surprised if Nikki ends up with the stamp (and that is probably what stupid Ray would want). . . .

If she doesn't get killed, Nikki getting the stamp would satisfy me, especially since Varga's henchman just took it away, so she'd have to either be very clever and/or lucky to get it.
OTOH, if Nikki does get killed, I hope our last view of her is as a beautiful corpse rather than a hideous one.

 

5 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Well, if Ray had accepted the stamp and gone back to the motel, he would have been a goner, along with Nikki so in a way, his stupidity about not accepting the stamp saved her life (altho' he lost his from the broken glass). . . .

Excellent point! I totally missed that.
Of course I suppose Nikki and Ray might have gotten out of Dodge with the stamp and the money before the henchman showed up.
Or maybe Ray might have managed to kill him.
Poor Ray. I bet when he was dying, his biggest regret was that he felt he had let Nikki down.

[annzeepark914]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

BTW all this talk of Maurice reminds me...did we ever find out why he glued the old man's mouth and nose shut in the first place? 

Is it just me or does anyone else think Maurice just took credit for the old man's death?  IMO, gluing the man's mouth and eyes shut sounds more like Varga & his henchmen.

[Accidental Martyr]

On 5/25/2017 at 2:00 PM, atlantaloves said:

Did that accidental death scene remind anybody of the ending of that fantastic movie "The Grifters"? God, I love this year's series...it is so Fargo-eeeeee. Almost as good as the first season, but then that season had Billy Bob Thornton. So evil! He killed it that first season, but this new season is very very very good. Oh yeah, and Nikki, she was totally using Ray, she is one cool con! Love her. 

I immediately had a flashback to The Grifters during Ray's death scene.

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

Is it just me or does anyone else think Maurice just took credit for the old man's death?  IMO, gluing the man's mouth and eyes shut sounds more like Varga & his henchmen.

Did he admit to it when he went to Ray's apartment? I can't remember.

[AuntiePam]

15 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Did he admit to it when he went to Ray's apartment? I can't remember.

He tells Ray that it didn't go well, and then he says something like "when you're threatened by an ex-con, the smart thing to do is cooperate".  So yeah, Maurice killed Ennis.

[welcomerain]

  6 hours ago, welcomerain said:

I don't think it's telling at all. It doesn't save her. She has no authority to wear that uniform, implying that she represents the Eden Valley police in this matter. Police who moonlight as security at events have to get permission to wear the uniform on that job. Unauthorized personal investigations are no less restricted.

Lopez can ask whatever questions. Burgle can't. She can ignore all the orders she likes, until the birds come home to roost. Not smart at all.

But that's my point. She does wear the uniform. She does have the authority. For a little while longer anyway. Once the transition is complete and official, she will have to wear the county sheriff's deputy uniform, as will her clueless deputy. 

Compare and contrast to her behavior on LA, which was on her own dime. There she was a lot more reluctant to use her status as a police officer to pressure people. She didn't even pack the uniform. 

  6 hours ago, Starchild said:

BTW all this talk of Maurice reminds me...did we ever find out why he glued the old man's mouth and nose shut in the first place? 

Not explicitly, but given how stupid he was, he probably tried to use is a an improvised gag.

Wearing a uniform you have no authority to wear in a context where you have been ordered not to act in that office is not a power move. I am done explaining this to you.

[welcomerain]

An argument could be made that Nikki isn't a cold blooded murderer. Maurice was supposed to burglarize a house. He was not supposed to murder anyone (a true cold blooded murder). If Minnesota has a death penalty, Maurice was going to qualify for it. Nikki may feel she just did what the State would have done. Not that seeing justice done was her first priority.

Did you see evidence of hot blood in Nikki's conduct? She was in a bit of a hurry to get the AC unit loose, but that was logistical not emotional in my opinion. Her reasoning was poor, but she didn't seem very het up over the matter.

[welcomerain]

  On 5/25/2017 at 3:00 PM, atlantaloves said:

Did that accidental death scene remind anybody of the ending of that fantastic movie "The Grifters"? God, I love this year's series...it is so Fargo-eeeeee. Almost as good as the first season, but then that season had Billy Bob Thornton. So evil! He killed it that first season, but this new season is very very very good. Oh yeah, and Nikki, she was totally using Ray, she is one cool con! Love her. 

I immediately had a flashback to The Grifters during Ray's death scene.

Hm, John Cusack as Ray and Emmit would have been a very different season. Joan Cusack as Nikki would have made it even more different. Or maybe as Gloria?

[Gobi]

6 hours ago, welcomerain said:

Did you see evidence of hot blood in Nikki's conduct? She was in a bit of a hurry to get the AC unit loose, but that was logistical not emotional in my opinion. Her reasoning was poor, but she didn't seem very het up over the matter.

I was just reacting to other posts calling her a cold blooded murderer. I didn't put much thought into the phrase itself. I was wondering why I didn't dislike her as I do, say, Yuri, even though she killed someone and has a rather flexible moral compass. I suppose it's because she is a character type seen a lot in Fargo. Someone who has, or who thinks she has, been treated unjustly in life, and is looking to even the score. Her victim, unlike Yuri's victims, deserved what he got and that translates to my more favorable view of her.

[MisterBluxom]

I just rewatched this episode and I'm fairly certain the "representative" of Stussy Lots who demanded the IRS agent vacate the Stussy office building was in fact Meemo (the Asian man who works with Yuri and does the dirty deeds for Varga).  Can anyone tell me if they think I'm right or wrong about this? I could very easily be wrong.

I find it strange there have been quite a few posts about the scene where the so-called rep orders the IRS agent to leave the building immediately but I don't recall anyone offering the opinion that the rep was in fact Meemo.

Edited May 28, 2017 by MissBluxom

[AngelKitty]

I'm sure it was Meemo.

[MisterBluxom]

24 minutes ago, AngelKitty said:

I'm sure it was Meemo.

Thank you.  :)

Edited May 28, 2017 by MissBluxom

[AzureOwl]

10 hours ago, welcomerain said:

Wearing a uniform you have no authority to wear in a context where you have been ordered not to act in that office is not a power move. I am done explaining this to you.

But that's my point. I believe she does have the authority to wear that uniform.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 5/27/2017 at 0:45 PM, Doyounot said:

Great episode! Damn ray just couldnt get out of his own way. He forgets the cash, and wouldnt just take the damn stamp! Nikki seemed alot more chill about the forgetting the cash stupidness than i thought she would but then again the whole time she has been so good at telling him stuff without making him feel stupid. Like rephrasing involuntary, telling him to use cash for the pills, and then asking if she should go get it. Also i thought it was so funny how proud she was of him that he knew of a motel that took cash! I feel bad for her being set up the way she is because it fits so well.

Also the way she stopped him from trying to shoot varga and his men (getting himself killed) was good she wants payback too "maybe" even more than him! I donno how to look at that on one hand he hated seeing her hurting and loved her so much that he wanted to kill someone on the other hand it was about him and how they did that to him by hurting "his girl". Either way though she was right that its only a "maybe"!

I thought sy was funny after listening to vargas stories "what!?" And also gloria after his story exactly 24?

Varga and his whole organization are so good at dealing with law enforcement first irs then cops but gloria is gonna be a problem for them. Picking his teeth was gross but his face while getting rid of the blood was perfect (first time he seemed rushed/panicked in any way).

Will Nikki use a self defense as her defense or just insist that she wasn't involved in Ray's death? If she does, she might also blame the other murders on Ray too, say that she was being forced to keep quiet.  I mean, it's not true, but, what choice will Nikki have?  If she flat out denies it, she might get charged anyway,  and get convicted.  Her self defense, with all those injuries, kind of supports her story.  There's no other way to explain those injuries, without making some pretty incriminating admissions regarding Emmett.  So, will she go along and try to avoid prosecution by saying she killed Ray in self defense, which gets Emmett off the hook.    Then later, her long game will be to get PAY BACK on Ray's behalf by taking down Emmett AND his grungy cohorts.

It's rather bizarre.  After the last episode, I posted that I had an odd feeling that Nikki was going to kill Ray!  Well..........she didn't, but, maybe, she'll say she did. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Terrafamilia]

Trying to successfully pin Ray's murder on Nikki would require a bit of arranging. At least if this were the usual show featuring competent and clever police and/or private detectives and/or talented amateur detectives. If they are not going to move Ray's body they are going to have to account for the timing and travel. Ray got the motel room so the motel employee would recognize him and have some record about the time. So why would Ray, with or without Nikki at the time, go to the motel in the first place only to go right back home and then Nikki to go right back to the motel? Ray had the vehicle. That would need to be taken back to the motel for the frame to even begin to make any sense. Then they would need to have some leverage over Nikki to prevent her from telling about how she was really beaten. Even if the police were disinclined to believe her there is just too great a chance of the police being serious about wanting to know just who is this creep with the teeth who has so recently showed up in Emmett's life.

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Will Nikki use a self defense as her defense or just insist that she wasn't involved in Ray's death? If she does, she might also blame the other murders on Ray too, say that she was being forced to keep quiet.  I mean, it's not true, but, what choice will Nikki have?  If she flat out denies it, she might get charged anyway,  and get convicted.  Her self defense, with all those injuries, kind of supports her story.  There's no other way to explain those injuries, without making some pretty incriminating admissions regarding Emmett.  So, will she go along and try to avoid prosecution by saying she killed Ray in self defense, which gets Emmett off the hook.    Then later, her long game will be to get PAY BACK on Ray's behalf by taking down Emmett AND his grungy cohorts.

It's rather bizarre.  After the last episode, I posted that I had an odd feeling that Nikki was going to kill Ray!  Well..........she didn't, but, maybe, she'll say she did. 

Varga certainly must think very quickly on his feet.  He took one look at Ray's death scene and decided he would frame Nikki for Ray's death. He may have known that Nikki was alone in the motel room at that time. But he didn't know if Nikki was seen as she made her way back to her room. Meema was in the motel room when Nikki reentered.  But anyone at the motel could have seen her when she walked back to the room - or more importantly - when she re-entered the room. If she was seen, that would provide her with an alibi for the homicide. So, that indicates to me that Varga thought this all through to the point he was willing to "arrange" for the death or tampering of any witnesses and he did that in just a split second.  Otherwise,  his frame around Nikki would fail. It would fail unless he killed all possible witnesses. So, if there were any witnesses (admittedly a fairly weak possibillity), it seems to me like the plan to frame Nikki would be a pretty weak one. Don't you think?

Edited May 28, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Stratego]

Varga doesn't have to explain Ray's death, so there is no need for him to implicate Nikki. The police will do the investigating. Their list won't include Varga (or his henchmen) because there is no known (by the police) connection between them and Ray--unless Nikki talks. In homicides the #1 suspect is generally the closest to the deceased (ex)-spouse, lover, (Nikki) then Emmit. Nikki's bruises are a problem for her to explain.

 

True, this Fargo and we know Gloria will solve everything--and likely the "solution" will fall like a "writer's anvil" in front of her.  But there are three episodes to go and the next two will likely see her stumbling through a fog similar to Season 1 until the climax.

[Gobi]

52 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Varga certainly must think very quickly on his feet.  He took one look at Ray's death scene and decided he would frame Nikki for Ray's death. He may have known that Nikki was alone in the motel room at that time. But he didn't know if Nikki was seen as she made her way back to her room. Meema was in the motel room when Nikki reentered.  But anyone at the motel could have seen her when she walked back to the room - or more importantly - when she re-entered the room. If she was seen, that would provide her with an alibi for the homicide. So, that indicates to me that Varga thought this all through to the point he was willing to "arrange" for the death or tampering of any witnesses and he did that in just a split second.  Otherwise,  his frame around Nikki would fail. It would fail unless he killed all possible witnesses. So, if there were any witnesses (admittedly a fairly weak possibillity), it seems to me like the plan to frame Nikki would be a pretty weak one. Don't you think?

I think a lot will depend on how long it takes to arrest Nikki, and where they find her. Ray had her car, and there has to be a plausible way for her to kill Ray and get back to the  motel or wherever. It's possible no one at the motel saw her (she stayed in the car while Ray paid for the room). The police may think she went with Ray back to the house, but how did she leave the scene of the crime? It will be obvious that she couldn't have walked on her own, which means a ride of some sort, but with whom? Taxi? Uber ( was it around then)? Either of those would have records. Any friends of Nikki's are going  be questioned, too. Perhaps Varga will drive her car back to the motel? I don't recall if he mentioned that.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Gobi
Content

[MisterBluxom]

You make several good points:

I know this isn't a real life situation and so there is a lot of "wiggle room" in discussing how tight this frame might fit. But if it was a real life situation, I think Varga would have a great many problems in making it work.  I can't imagine why he would ever want to get involved.  It seems to me that if he inserts himself into this mess, there is a real good chance the police might decide the murderer was Varga himself - or one of his henchmen.

If I was Varga, I would just walk away from this mess and let the police do their own job. I'm guessing they will  have a very tough time proving either one or both of the following:

1) This was a murder and not death by foolish misadventure by Foolish Ray.  Ray's life seems to be full of foolish misadventures and the police could easily come to the conclusion that this was just one more stupid thing Ray did and this one resulted in his own death. Ray was just a walking disaster area.

2) The murder was committed by Emmit. There seems to be many other people who would like to see Ray dead. A police investigation would have no shortage of suspects and if they just roll the dice, they could come up with any number of potential murderers. Seems like a foolish idea for anyone to insert themselves into this homicide. It would be very easy for the police to decide that person was the guilty one.

All in all, this seems like a real good situation to avoid at all costs.

Edited May 28, 2017 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Stratego said:

Varga doesn't have to explain Ray's death, so there is no need for him to implicate Nikki. The police will do the investigating. Their list won't include Varga (or his henchmen) because there is no known (by the police) connection between them and Ray--unless Nikki talks. In homicides the #1 suspect is generally the closest to the deceased (ex)-spouse, lover, (Nikki) then Emmit. Nikki's bruises are a problem for her to explain.

 

True, this Fargo and we know Gloria will solve everything--and likely the "solution" will fall like a "writer's anvil" in front of her.  But there are three episodes to go and the next two will likely see her stumbling through a fog similar to Season 1 until the climax.

Exactly! Why should Varga ever get involved in the first place? It would be so easy for this frame to turn around and land on Varga's head instead of Nikki's.

I should have read your post more carefully before I replied to Gobi's. I must apologize to you because you made most of the points I wanted to make and it looks like I'm just rehashing what you've already said. 

I'm sorry.

1 hour ago, Stratego said:

Varga doesn't have to explain Ray's death, so there is no need for him to implicate Nikki. The police will do the investigating. Their list won't include Varga (or his henchmen) because there is no known (by the police) connection between them and Ray--unless Nikki talks. In homicides the #1 suspect is generally the closest to the deceased (ex)-spouse, lover, (Nikki) then Emmit. Nikki's bruises are a problem for her to explain.

 

True, this Fargo and we know Gloria will solve everything--and likely the "solution" will fall like a "writer's anvil" in front of her.  But there are three episodes to go and the next two will likely see her stumbling through a fog similar to Season 1 until the climax.

I can't figure out just what Winnie will do in the next three episodes. Is it possible the writers are just bringing her along so that she can be murdered by the bad guys and then there will be more glory for Gloria when she busts the three of them? (Varga, Yuri and Meema).

P.S.  I just tweaked on the names Gloria and Winnie. I wonder if those names were chosen because Gloria gets the glory associated with solving the big case after Winnie wins a gun fight with the bad guys and maybe kills one of them who is trying to kill Gloria?  Oh dear.  That is just too bizarre. I think I must be sleep-deprived or something.

Edited May 28, 2017 by MissBluxom

[EtheltoTillie]

On 5/27/2017 at 10:29 PM, Accidental Martyr said:

I immediately had a flashback to The Grifters during Ray's death scene.

Calling all Coen brothers fans. This actually comes from The Man Who Wasn't There.  

Spoiler

All the talk about being convicted of the wrong murder sent me back to TMWWT this morning. It's showing on Starz on demand, for those who are interested. Darned if Billy Bob Thornton doesn't give Tony Soprano the exact same neck wound!

Edited May 29, 2017 by GussieK

[SunnyBeBe]

On 5/25/2017 at 9:41 PM, benteen said:

This show is becoming unwatchable.  It's boring and no longer funny.  I don't get the obsession with disgust and gross shit this season either.

The scene with Emmitt, Varga, Gloria and Winnie was the one bright spot.

I normally respect the talent that brings us this show, but, I admit that with this season, the repeated gross demonstrations are reminiscent of juvenile boy humor.  It's like they gathered a group of 12 year-old boys and asked them what would be funny and gross. They made a list and the producers used it.  In fact, they crammed them all into this season.  Maybe, next week, Varga can make underarm farts with his hand and make Emmit poop his pants. lol 

(Peeing in a cup, vomiting, used tampon, etc. omg....so hysterical and entertaining!....not.)

Edited May 29, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[annzeepark914]

@SunnyBeBe:  Thanks!  My thoughts all along as well.  Middle school obsessions took over this season's writers it seems.

[Ellaria]

It took these last two episodes to finally get me excited about this season. Its been a bit of a slog for me but that's in part due to high expectations. I adored everything about S2 and, while S3 will never come close (IMO), I now find myself anticipating the next episode.

Sorry to see dumb Ray leave us but he had been pushing his luck for awhile. Sy's reactions are a delight. I love watching Gloria's small town cop sensibilities kick in. Varga should not underestimate her.

I'm hoping that Emmit decides to do the right thing and tell Gloria about all of the nefarious goings-on. Right now, his life isn't his life any more. Yes, the consequences will be huge but I don't expect him to survive the season any way. 

Looking forward to seeing what Widow Goldfarb brings to the proceedings. She isn't a one-scene character and probably shouldn't be trusted. 

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I normally respect the talent that brings us this show, but, I admit that with this season, the repeated gross demonstrations are reminiscent of juvenile boy humor.  It's like they gathered a group of 12 year-old boys and asked them what would be funny and gross. They made a list and the producers used it.  In fact, they crammed them all into this season.  Maybe, next week, Varga can make underarm farts with his hand and make Emmit poop his pants. lol 

(Peeing in a cup, vomiting, used tampon, etc. omg....so hysterical and entertaining!....not.)

I have to agree with this comment. I don't understand the reliance on bodily fluids to inject humor or shock value into the story. Varga would still be reprehensible without the vomiting. I, too, respect the talent involved in this show but much of this is in poor taste and completely unnecessary.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Ellaria Sand

[AuntiePam]

I think Varga's bulimia means something.   It's more than just an eating disorder with him -- I doubt he worries about his body image.  Maybe the vomiting shows his disgust with the excesses of the Western world, with the failure of capitalism, with modern society.  Some have more than they will ever need and the rest of the world is starving.  Varga is showing us what he thinks of our abundance.   I'll eat this, but I don't need it, and I'm sure not gonna keep it. 

Nikki using a bloody tampon to send a message -- that works too -- it's about as feminist in-your-face as a gal can get.

There's definitely some shock value to these scenes but I don't think that's their only purpose. 

[MisterBluxom]

There has been considerable discussion in this thread about the consequences of "co-operating with police" without a lawyer present.  I don't want to spend much time here for fear this might be too far "off topic".  But I would like to post some links to what is perhaps the ultimate case where someone decided to "help" the police in the matter of a homicide and he sat with them and spent many, many hours giving them evidence and answering questions. The result was that he was convicted of murder, sentenced to 40 years to life and he spent 16 years in prison before it was recognized that he was innocent and released. Here are 4 links that you can examine if you are interested:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-conviction-doubt-20160622-snap-story.html

http://justiceforray.webs.com/released

http://theavtimes.com/2017/02/01/judge-finds-former-security-guard-factually-innocent-of-womans-2000-killing-in-palmdale/

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/DA-Moves-to-Set-Aside-Ex-Guards-Conviction-for-Womans-Murder-in-Palmdale-Park-and-Ride-Lot-409712715.html

This case is so bizarre that I hope you will think twice before ever cheerfully agreeing to "co-operate" with the police without a lawyer present. This man spent 9 hours in just one video-taped session and that helped convict him and send him to prison. He had to endure three trials before finally being sentenced to 40 years to life in prison. How does that grab you?  40 years as a result of trying to be a good citizen.  As Popeye would say, "Shiver me timbers, Matey and Blow me down!"

Edited May 30, 2017 by MissBluxom

[cardigirl]

I have been enjoying this (my first) season of Fargo.  Really enjoying it.  I'm usually on the edge of my seat because I know that death tends to arrive swiftly and without warning in this show.  This past weekend, my son introduced me to Season 2, which I also enjoyed very much.  I'm looking forward to seeing if there are tie-ins in the last 4 shows to the previous seasons, as there were tie-ins from season 2 to season 1.

I don't ponder the legality of what Gloria is doing, I just marvel at her ability to read people.  There is a stillness in her portrayal that indicates to me a very deep well of thoughtfulness and the desire to do good and stop evil.  I think, when she met Varga, she recognized Evil. When she met Winnie, or soon after, she recognized a fellow soul who is also good at her job. 

I don't know what's going to happen, I hope my favorite characters avoid death, and I hope the story leaves few hanging threads.  Looking forward to watching to see what does happen, I hope the writer(s) continue to hold my interest.

[ChipBach]

On 5/26/2017 at 4:16 PM, AzureOwl said:

That would've been worse. As far as the IRS is concerned, those $10k would be income that Ray would have to declare. To say nothing of what Ray would've said if the IRS tracked him down to check. 

Yabut - you would put the tax burden on Ray.

[AzureOwl]

6 minutes ago, ChipBach said:

Yabut - you would put the tax burden on Ray.

Ray may have demanded more money under the table to go along with Emmit's story that the money was for Ray.

[EtheltoTillie]

Call me crazy, but I ended up taking an even deeper dive into the Coen brothers canon yesterday afternoon.  I rewatched Fargo the movie and then I watched another favorite of mine, A Serious Man.  There's more Coen brothers homage in the TV show.

Spoiler

In the scene where the real estate lawyer keels over and dies, just before that he arrayed his notebooks and pencils the way the IRS agent and Meemo did.  These little details are fun!

 Sy Abelman??!!  (That actor played the bad movie agent in episode 3 of this season.)

[AuntiePam]

On 5/27/2017 at 2:31 PM, annzeepark914 said:

I have a question about the motel door.  Didn't Nikki leave it ajar just a bit when she went to get ice?  And if so, and she's being wary (she was looking over her shoulder constantly), why not lock the door behind her?  Who leaves a motel/hotel room unlocked when they go get ice?  She was being so savvy handling Ray, why wouldn't she have told him to leave the key with her?  Oh well.  The plot had to progress so I guess that's why but it doesn't go w/ her cautionary style.

My guess is that she let Ray take the key so that he wouldn't have to disturb her when he returned, in case she was sleeping. 

I don't think she was concerned about her safety -- they fled Ray's house because the cops were looking for them, not because they were worried about Varga.

[MisterBluxom]

On 2017-05-27 at 5:26 PM, welcomerain said:

MissBluxom, I'll tell you honestly what I would have done: Nothing. Who's going to believe Maurice? What's his proof? And his story begins with an admission of murder. That won't do much for his credibility.

I'd call a lawyer posthaste and get myself clear of this. If I'm Nikki, I get myself clear. If I'm Ray, I get the both of us clear. The cops may suspect we're dirty, they might even be sure of it, but they can't prove it.

That, or I'd do nothing because I was crapping my pants in fear. Hey, you asked for honesty. But I hope I'd think of the lawyer angle during the rinse cycle.

I'm sorry but I appear to have missed reading this post until today.

In response, I'd like to say that your opinion is completely understandable and after reading your opinion, I must admit that I would have second thoughts about the llikelihood that I would feel compelled to push that A/C out the window. I may very well have not dont that, if I had read your opinions and had some time to think about it before I actually decided to push the A/C out the window.

I think your opinion is very well reasoned and I want you to know that I clearly respect your POV.  Thank you.

Edited May 30, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Magic]

On 5/27/2017 at 8:22 PM, AuntiePam said:

He tells Ray that it didn't go well, and then he says something like "when you're threatened by an ex-con, the smart thing to do is cooperate".  So yeah, Maurice killed Ennis.

I still wonder if Maurice killed Ennis.  I got the impression that anything Maurice did that turned our right was an accident and just don't see how he could have glued the Ennis' mouth and nose shut.  Where would he have found the glue for instance.  Seems like someone would have had to bring it with them.  He seems more like the quick/violent type like he was to the clerk when he stopped to ask to use the phone book. Gluing someone's nose and mouth shut seems more premeditated.

[AuntiePam]

I agree that the glue seems weird.  Ennis's wrists were taped to the arms of the chair, so if Maurice was worried about Ennis making noise, he could have used the same tape to cover Ennis's mouth.

We might never know why Ennis died that way, but so far, we have no reason to think that anyone besides Maurice was involved.

Off topic:  Is anyone watching Downward Dog?  Alison Tolman -- Molly Solverson from S1 stars.  In tonight's episode, she's dealing with a co-worker (I think it's her boss) who is wearing a tee-shirt with "Stussy" on the front.  Just "Stussy". 

[Accidental Martyr]

1 hour ago, AuntiePam said:

 

Off topic:  Is anyone watching Downward Dog?  Alison Tolman -- Molly Solverson from S1 stars.  In tonight's episode, she's dealing with a co-worker (I think it's her boss) who is wearing a tee-shirt with "Stussy" on the front.  Just "Stussy". 

Stussy is a clothing brand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stüssy

https://www.pinterest.com/Lizzie23xx/stussy-stuff/