Good Omens - General Discussion

[Tuggy]

45 minutes ago, Starchild said:

And Aziraphale's face in the elevator. Trying and failing and trying again to convince himself he's made the right decision. Or that, if it's the wrong decision, it can still be salvaged at some point in the future.

I really, really liked the two parallel shots during the credits. And Aziraphale's side is clearly the more devastating of the two. As you said, you can see him shifting between so many emotions and thoughts and you feel for him. As a spectator, I was also shifting between anger towards him for not making the right choice and pity for him.

On Crawley's side, what I found spectacular was how static his face was, whereas normally he is always making faces like pouting or things like that. David Tennant has such an expressive face that here you could see the mask he is wearing to deal with his feelings.

This was truly a striking cinematographic feat.

[Starchild]

52 minutes ago, Tuggy said:

As a spectator, I was also shifting between anger towards [Aziraphale] for not making the right choice and pity for him.

Right up to the last second before the kiss, he was so unsure of the nature of his relationship with Crowley, and didn't really believe 100% that Crowley could actually love him when no one else did. 

I've read comments that talk about how much unresolved trauma Aziraphale is dealing with due to an eternity of emotional neglect/abuse from Heaven. It lowers his self-esteem, fuels his insecurity, ramps up his need for their approval, and informs his lack of courage to make a clean break from them.

When you think of it from that perspective, how could he be expected to do anything else?

[Aulty]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

Man, the acting Sheen did with his face through that scene was masterful. Right after the kiss he's so off-center he's in shock, he's crying, his world is upside down.

I just want to highlight this, because that's exactly what I thought when I watched it. DT always wearing glasses as Crowley needs to do a lot with body language, and he does it so well, but Michael in that sequence was a masterclass.

[andromeda331]

Loved

Seeing Azriaphale and Crowley back on my screen

Crowley asking questions as an Angel and upset at the universe being wallpaper. Maybe he should help out with the space program. 

The whole thing with Job. Both their horrors at the deaths of the children (and goats) and understanding that Job and Mrs. Job weren't going to be happy with seven new replacement kids while the other angels had no clue. Azriaphale also understanding age factors in. The whole scam of them making the old kids the new kids. I love that Mrs. Job caught on quickly. I was laughing so hard at the rib thing and the shoemaker and obstetrician. 

The whole grave digging thing it was funny. I also liked Crowley pointing out through it to Azriaphale what he had said earlier about being poor. 

Muriel the human inspector constable.

Jane Austen being a criminal mastermind.

Azriaphale changing the car and Crowley knowing about it.

The love in the rain under the awning going well until it broke.

Nina and Maggie telling Crowley they aren't to play with and she just broke up with Lindsay and not ready for a new relationship yet.

The alarm going off in Heaven after the half miracle

Disliked

Gabriel and Beelzebub it felt like it just came out of nowhere. They didn't really have any chemistry

The ball

I kind of wanted to see an attack on the book shop angels vs demons

The ending

It was hard to see the ending. I do think Azriaphale is being played. He still sees the good in Heaven. Despite Job, the poor and everything he still has faith in Heaven. It reminded me of last season when he thinks if he could just find the right words or get Gabriel and the other Angels to understand Armaggedon wouldn't happen. Being in charge he probably thinks he can change things. Crowley doesn't want to be an angel or demon. He just wants to do whatever he wants and be with Azriaphale. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Starchild]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Disliked

Gabriel and Beelzebub it felt like it just came out of nowhere. They didn't really have any chemistry

I feel like it would have worked a little better if we still had the same actor from last season playing Beelzebub. This one was just OK, a little flat, didn't have the same edge that would have been a sharper contrast to Gabriel's relentless positivity.

[DoctorAtomic]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Jane Austen being a criminal mastermind.

It's a shame we didn't get any flashback. 

[JustHereForFood]

I am rewatching it now, up to episode 2. Some more thoughts:

- Not quite sure about the introduction with Aziraphale and Crowley meeting when Crowley was still an angel. I know it was a popular theory, but it seems like a retcon. When they met in the Garden of Eden in season 1, did Aziraphale not recognize Crowley when he asked for his name, or was he just politely asking how he's calling himself now? It was cute seeing Crowley being so excited about the stars though.

- Aziraphale and Crowley discussing how to make people fall in love. Putting aside the ethical aspect of it, it's interesting to see how they both see romance. Crowley's first suggestion is people falling for each other in the rain. When they met in season 1 in the Garden, it started to rain for the first time. Coincidence?

- Aziraphale borrowing the Bentley was great. "Our car." " We don't have a car."

- I loved the ending to the Job episode, when Aziraphale thinks he is going to hell and looks absolutely miserable and then Crowley laughs at the idea of Aziraphale as a demon. (Seriously, just think about the fact that someone would think they are going to hell for saving the lives of children. I despise Christianity and their hypocrisy, so I had a blast with scenes like these where we can see Heaven's hypocrisy in the show.) And then Crowley sort of comforts Aziraphale about how to accept this new role when he doesn't follow Heaven 100% but makes a space for some doubts and for his own sense of morals (free will, basically). 

If we get a third season, what I definitely want to see is a long conversation between the two about Aziraphale's offer at the end and why exactly it is so insulting to Crowley, because I think he doesn't really get it. And I really need for Crowley to point out to him that at no point in their long history has he attempted the opposite, as in to make Aziraphale fall and become a demon. He just pointed out here at the end of episode 2 that Aziraphale wouldn't like it at all and that seems to be enough for him.

[Starchild]

29 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

I am rewatching it now, up to episode 2. Some more thoughts:

- Not quite sure about the introduction with Aziraphale and Crowley meeting when Crowley was still an angel. I know it was a popular theory, but it seems like a retcon. When they met in the Garden of Eden in season 1, did Aziraphale not recognize Crowley when he asked for his name, or was he just politely asking how he's calling himself now? It was cute seeing Crowley being so excited about the stars though.

...

If we get a third season, what I definitely want to see is a long conversation between the two about Aziraphale's offer at the end and why exactly it is so insulting to Crowley, because I think he doesn't really get it. And I really need for Crowley to point out to him that at no point in their long history has he attempted the opposite, as in to make Aziraphale fall and become a demon. He just pointed out here at the end of episode 2 that Aziraphale wouldn't like it at all and that seems to be enough for him.

It's a popular theory that fallen angels are not allowed to continue using their old names. Perhaps Aziraphale was asking what his new name is? 

As for Crowley's reaction to the offer of becoming an angel again, I think he made it pretty clear that he thinks Heaven is supremely hypocritical, just as bad as Hell, and he never wants to be associated with either of them again. Further to that, I think he's explicitly stated that multiple times over the years, and he thought Aziraphale was finally understanding that, and he's disappointed that it seems Aziraphale doesn't really get it after all. Hence his statement that he thinks he understands better than Aziraphale does (including that the angel is being manipulated).

But I think Aziraphale understands to a point. There's a thing his face does after he forgives Crowley that suggests to me that he knew that was a step too far, but too late to take it back.

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

It's a shame we didn't get any flashback. 

The biggest shame. That would have been awesome.

[paramitch]

Spoilers on Season 2!

Welp, I raced through season 2, and really adored it overall. Our Ineffable husbands are back! And it is so wonderful to see Tennant and Sheen together again. 

Meanwhile: Was it as strong as season 1? No, but I also did enjoy that it was more focused on Crowley and Az, and the philosophy that separates them -- and Heaven and Hell, as well. (I found it a little bit distracting that so many cast members from season 1 were brought back in new, utterly unconnected roles, but after awhile I went with it, although right to the end I kept expecting their dual identities to be addressed.)

And I adored that so much of it was about the romance between Crowley and Aziraphale -- the love, the connection, but also about what separates them. It's interesting that it's philosophical and not moral -- Crowley knows the universe is chaos; he is already a much better person than most of the angels still in heaven (his saving all of Job's goats by turning them into crows was adorable), while Aziraphale is still clinging to structure, to the idea that the Ineffable Plan is a good one, and worthwhile.

I found Aziraphale's simplicity sweet on the brink of Armageddon last season; this season, I simply found it frustrating how gullible Aziraphale was, even though I found it believable and sad (and gorgeously acted by Sheen). And Crowley knows him so well that he's not angry at him, just hurt and sad at what could have been.

For me, the most satisfying aspect of this season was watching both Crowley and Az wrestle with defining their relationship, but it was Tennant's Crowley that had the most satisfying arc for me. He spends the entire story genuinely preoccupied with the definition of this relationship, and we can see him push it away -- but also  repeatedly, decide to face it, as well.

The irony is that because Crowley is already fallen, he has no doubts about what he does. He isn't trying to do the "good thing" (Aziraphale's Achilles' heel), Crowley is simply trying to do the right thing. Period. He's not trying to live up to some celestial idea of goodness, he's already a lost cause according to both sides. While Aziraphale clings to his image of himself as an angel, as an epitome of goodness, even as he must try to overlook or disregard the terrible things God and the other angels do all the time (see also poor Job). Even God's conversation with Job is nonsensical egotistical nonsense (that echoes the actual Bible entry) -- "How dare you question me? Come back when you've made a whale." Whatever, God. (eyeroll)

Meanwhile, Crowley has simply allowed himself to continue along this new and lonely path and become whoever he wants to be, answering to no one. And it turns out that Crowley is increasingly revealed as someone who is brave, unshakably loyal, and oddly pure -- and sure as hell a better person than any angel we meet in Heaven (aside from sweet little Muriel). Someone who can't kill 100 goats for a stupid random shallow reason. Who refuses to kill Job's children either (and who appears arguably more upset than Aziraphale in some ways about it). The show's depiction of "goodness" as repeatedly narrow, brutal, and tone-deaf I have to think is no accident these days.

Again, it's a great example of how without fear or indecision Crowley's demonic nature allows himself to be. While Aziraphale's angelic nature hobbles him because he is still answerable to this idea of "Goodness."

I'd argue that this season, the show's depiction of heaven was even more nihilistic and subversive than last -- it is arguably worse than Hell. Hell, and its demons, at least has no illusions about what it is and what it does. But Heaven and its upper management are doing nothing but playing dice with the universe, 24/7. Lives aren't important, mortals aren't important, outcomes aren't even important because they are all immortal and bored and ever so slightly sadistic.

The ending made me sad but it worked for me. Aziraphale has always been the innocent, scared one, the (no surprise) true believer, even after the stuff with Adam. As others commented so beautifully here, Crowley still moves too fast for him.

I found the kiss so sweet and sad, because Crowley is being so brave and open, and we see Aziraphale respond, but then pull away fearfully.

I found the way it was presented seemed to purposefully echo the moment Aziraphale takes that first bite of food back in the past -- he reacts wide-eyed with confusion and fear, but then allows himself to fall into it. He becomes a sensualist -- he loves the mortal world, loves taste and music and soft things. I loved the way Sheen played the moments after the kiss, because Aziraphale is alarmed in exactly the same way as with his first taste of food. He touches his lips and looks confused, scared, and alarmed. And maybe just a little bit moved, touched and affected?

The little thing that got me the most was that even after Crowley stormed out, Az steps out and -- there's Crowley. Still loyally waiting. Still hoping he will change his mind. And Aziraphale disappoints him (but I think it's interesting to note that Crowley is disappointed -- but not surprised).

The very final parallel shots of a grim, absolute Crowley driving toward his future, opposite a euphoric, smiling Aziraphale standing in that white light as he ascends floor by floor, delighted at his future, is very interesting. And broke my heart. Again. Some more. (I do think it's an interesting and rather sadistic note to end on, darn it. I much preferred the S1 ending, seeing the boys toasting one another at the Ritz while a nightingale serenaded the angels in love, just like the song.

We better goddamn well get a season 3. And I really want to see our sweet guys happy and together again, darn it. 

My favorite parts:

• Crowley's final speech and plea to Aziraphale, and the kiss
• Crowley turning the sacrificial baby goats into crows
• Aziraphale's first taste of food
• Everything with Job
• Jane Austen as a super thief and spy (PLEASE GIVE US THIS SHOW)
• Everything with sweet little Muriel
• Everything with Jim/Gabriel (FINALLY someone knows what to do with Jon Hamm! He was the greatest himbo in this)
• Crowley's car falling in love with Aziraphale
• Crowley living in his car -- and what did he bring with him? His TORTURED PLANTS!!
• Aziraphale's gleeful confession that Crowley loves rescuing him
• The final Beelzebub/Gabriel reveal (sue me, I thought it was adorable)

On 12/7/2021 at 4:47 PM, AnimeMania said:

Michael Sheen Declares Himself A “Not-For-Profit Actor”, Will Donate Future Earnings To Social Causes

Michael Sheen says that he has turned himself into “a social enterprise, a not-for-profit actor” who will donate the majority of proceeds from his acting work to promote social causes.

“I’m at the stage of my life and career where I have a window of opportunity that will probably never be this good again. I’m able to get people in a room, I can open doors. I don’t want to look back and think, I could have done something with that platform. I could have done something with that money.”

Michael has a terrific reputation in the industry, and this is a great example of why—a kind and generous person, a joy to work with, and a seriously prodigious talent. Every time I see him play fluttery, sweet, innocent Aziraphale I'm blown away that this is the same guy who played the stoic, chilly Dr. Masters on the superb "Masters of Sex."

On 12/9/2021 at 5:11 AM, JustHereForFood said:

Apparently there might be a third season after this one. If Amazon and BBC are up for it, Neil is.

Possible third season of Good Omens.

Given the season 2 ending? THERE BETTER BE.

On 1/18/2022 at 11:57 AM, JustHereForFood said:

I am not familiar with this Youtuber, but I came accross this video and quite enjoyed it. Basically, it sums up why it's a good adaptation.

 

Dom is fantastic, and I cannot recommend his channel enough. He's witty, kind, smart, and occasionally naughty in just the right amounts. By far one of my favorite YouTubers.

On 10/14/2022 at 1:05 AM, Llywela said:

I mean, Aziraphale and Crowley started season one unable to even admit that they were friends and ended the season having a romantic dinner together. That should be a pretty satisfying character arc by anyone's standard.

I agree. I loved everything about it. A lovely and even poetic ending.

On 5/8/2023 at 7:43 PM, Blue Plastic said:

The only two things I didn't like at all were that the antichrist was only a kid (would have preferred an adult character for that) and the whole witch hunter subplot.

The Antichrist was a child because Gaiman's direct inspiration for writing the story was the 1975 horror film The Omen, about a child Antichrist. That's why "Good Omens" (book and show both) deliberately includes all the major elements to that story in Adam's early life -- the evil nanny, the demon dog, etc., but this time played for laughs.

On 7/30/2023 at 3:24 PM, AngieBee1 said:

Crowley is still moving too fast for Aziraphale.

Oh, my heart. This got me. Sniffle.

On 7/31/2023 at 6:17 AM, storyskip said:

Aziraphale's always wanted to believe that Heaven = good. 

The Metatron only had to play on that angle, with a side of "well, with YOU at the helm how could it be anything but good?"  I don't know that the coffee would have had to be doctored in any way to push Aziraphale in that direction.

Like Crowley told Gabriel, Aziraphale wasn't there when Gabriel and the others were perfectly ready, if not eager, to destroy Aziraphale with fire at the end of Season One.  Aziraphale only experienced the Hell side of things and OF COURSE Hell would try to destroy Crowley but HEAVEN would never be so cruel ... /s

So Aziraphale is still pretty faithful to the general idea of Heaven = Good.  

I think, looking back over the flashbacks in particular, we see this set up through the whole of season 2.  Crowley has always questioned, ever since the beginning, and Aziraphale has always held on to Faith.  We saw it with the formation of nebula, with Job, etc.

Very well put -- I agree on this point.

On 7/31/2023 at 12:02 PM, Ceindreadh said:

From the Good Omens Dramatis Personae -

Crowley (An Angel who did not so much Fall, as Saunter Vaguely Downwards)

Satan (A Fallen Angel; the Adversary)

Crowley as an Angel Sauntering Vaguely Downwards will always be one of the most perfect descriptions of a character ever.

On 7/31/2023 at 6:16 PM, JustHereForFood said:

And I obviously read too much fanfiction, because I swear, every scene from this season was something I've read in at least one fanfiction (again, not a bad thing, but nobody will convince me that Neil never reads any 😄).

I've interviewed several writers for games and other major IPs and there is simply zero way they are even allowed to click a link. One click and it's a world of legal trouble if it's verifiable.

I think Neil has a lot of appreciation and support for the fanfic community but limits his exposure to specifics beyond the occasional quote or verbal mention a fan or friend may make to him. Which makes me happy to hear, since so many authors are assholes about it -- like, oh, Diana Gabaldon, which is extra-rich since Outlander began life as Doctor Who fanfiction). But I believe him when Gaiman says he never reads it. He simply can't.

On 8/1/2023 at 2:13 PM, Starchild said:

I think that's why Derek Jacobi plays it with such slyness. When we, the audience, observe the Metatron as he interacts with Aziraphale, we can see this is not a straight offer, there's subtext there. He's very satisfied at the  results of his negotiation, and I think that derives not strictly from Aziraphale's return to Heaven, but from separation of Aziraphale and Crowley.

I don't agree because Metatron was so willing to bring Crowley along, but I absolutely DO agree with you that he is delighted to have manipulated Aziraphale into doing what he wants here, and it is definitely slightly creepy. Also, Aziraphale looks sort of drunk and giddy in the elevator -- it is very thought-provoking to consider what actually happened here (I don't quite think his coffee was spelled or drugged, and YET...?).

On 8/2/2023 at 7:25 AM, Tuggy said:

I really, really liked the two parallel shots during the credits. And Aziraphale's side is clearly the more devastating of the two. As you said, you can see him shifting between so many emotions and thoughts and you feel for him. As a spectator, I was also shifting between anger towards him for not making the right choice and pity for him.

On Crawley's side, what I found spectacular was how static his face was, whereas normally he is always making faces like pouting or things like that. David Tennant has such an expressive face that here you could see the mask he is wearing to deal with his feelings.

This was truly a striking cinematographic feat.

It was really striking and beautifully done. 

On 8/2/2023 at 8:24 AM, Starchild said:

Right up to the last second before the kiss, he was so unsure of the nature of his relationship with Crowley, and didn't really believe 100% that Crowley could actually love him when no one else did. 

I've read comments that talk about how much unresolved trauma Aziraphale is dealing with due to an eternity of emotional neglect/abuse from Heaven. It lowers his self-esteem, fuels his insecurity, ramps up his need for their approval, and informs his lack of courage to make a clean break from them.

When you think of it from that perspective, how could he be expected to do anything else?

I had never considered this POV and it's really complex and interesting to consider. I agree that it makes total sense for what we've seen of Aziraphale and how he clings to tradition and his little talismans.

17 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

- Aziraphale and Crowley discussing how to make people fall in love. Putting aside the ethical aspect of it, it's interesting to see how they both see romance. Crowley's first suggestion is people falling for each other in the rain. When they met in season 1 in the Garden, it started to rain for the first time. Coincidence?

- Aziraphale borrowing the Bentley was great. "Our car." " We don't have a car."

- I loved the ending to the Job episode, when Aziraphale thinks he is going to hell and looks absolutely miserable and then Crowley laughs at the idea of Aziraphale as a demon. (Seriously, just think about the fact that someone would think they are going to hell for saving the lives of children. I despise Christianity and their hypocrisy, so I had a blast with scenes like these where we can see Heaven's hypocrisy in the show.) And then Crowley sort of comforts Aziraphale about how to accept this new role when he doesn't follow Heaven 100% but makes a space for some doubts and for his own sense of morals (free will, basically). 

If we get a third season, what I definitely want to see is a long conversation between the two about Aziraphale's offer at the end and why exactly it is so insulting to Crowley, because I think he doesn't really get it. And I really need for Crowley to point out to him that at no point in their long history has he attempted the opposite, as in to make Aziraphale fall and become a demon. He just pointed out here at the end of episode 2 that Aziraphale wouldn't like it at all and that seems to be enough for him.

Beautifully put -- I especially love the realization that when they spoke in the Garden, it was raining!

I really want to see Aziraphale's next conversation with Crowley so badly once those scales have fallen from his eyes and he sees how toxic heaven is.

I was so sad and angry at him when Crowley was so brave and arguably pure in that final conversation. But knowing Aziraphale he's going to need to think about things... and then he'll realize how wrong he was. I hope we get to see it sooner than 4 years from now, darn it.

Edited August 4, 2023 by paramitch
clarified

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, paramitch said:

I don't agree because Metatron was so willing to bring Crowley along, but I absolutely DO agree with you that he is delighted to have manipulated Aziraphale into doing what he wants here, and it is definitely slightly creepy. Also, Aziraphale looks sort of drunk and giddy in the elevator -- it is very thought-provoking to consider what actually happened here (I don't quite think his coffee was spelled or drugged, and YET...?).

I do believe that Metatron did want to separate them. We've glossed over the tremendous power in their combined miracle to hide Gabriel, that was so strong even though they both put as little into it as they could. But I don't think it escaped Metatron's notice once it was revealed. I think that's what really brought him into this. If they remained working together, what could they do with their  combined power if they really wanted to? They might be able to derail any and all of Heaven's future plans. He can't have that.

As for Aziraphale's face in the elevator, to me it didn't look like real happiness, it looked forced and desperate.

[Tuggy]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

As for Aziraphale's face in the elevator, to me it didn't look like real happiness, it looked forced and desperate.

I do agree with that. To me it looks more like him trying to convince himself that he did the right thing even if he feels devastated by loosing Crowley. And I think it was played amazingly well!

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

We've glossed over the tremendous power in their combined miracle to hide Gabriel, that was so strong even though they both put as little into it as they could.

Yeah, I thought this was a very interesting piece of story that was not at all touched upon afterwards. Let's hope it gets into play in season 3...

[JustHereForFood]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

I do believe that Metatron did want to separate them. We've glossed over the tremendous power in their combined miracle to hide Gabriel, that was so strong even though they both put as little into it as they could. But I don't think it escaped Metatron's notice once it was revealed. I think that's what really brought him into this. If they remained working together, what could they do with their  combined power if they really wanted to? They might be able to derail any and all of Heaven's future plans. He can't have that.

Good point. They've already screwed over both Heaven and Hell in their plans to kill them at the end of season 1, by working together and willing to risk their lives for each other (one of my favorite scenes).

[JustHereForFood]

OK, there is at least some reassurance that we will get a conclusion to the story, even if there is no third season. (I would obviously much prefer that season, but a book would be definitely better than nothing.)

some good news

Quote

Hello Brandy! As we were heading into Season 2, we planned everything so that we could go smoothly into making Season 3. Amazon wouldn’t commission two seasons, we would have to bring out the audience for Season 2, but everything was planned and set. One reason for shooting in Bathgate instead of London was the relative cheapness of being able to keep our set up between seasons.

But the strikes have upended that plan a little. At best, they may delay it, at worst it’s possible that we won’t get the viewing figures or something and it might not happen at all.

If that became a thing, I’d definitely write the book.

 

[Starchild]

That would be a consolation prize, certainly, but I would still feel a little robbed if I didn't see a joyful loving reunion acted out by Michael and David.

[non sequitur]

Renewals of streaming shows now are much too uncertain to leave this series with an ending like that.  It would be horrible and depressing if this is it.

[Fosca]

All I can think is that Season 3 first of all damn well better occur (will having the BBC involved help things along?) and that there's going to be one hell of a "I was wrong" dance in it.  Hopefully they'll dance it together.

I don't think Aziraphale was drugged either; he was trying desperately to convince himself he was doing the right thing or could change (or permanently delay) the Ineffable Plan.  Or maybe that he could convince Crowley to join him in Heaven to help him do that.  Aziraphale is such a complete optimist, always seeing the good in people, always hoping for the best.  Crowley isn't a complete pessimist, although he definitely portrays himself that way, and he's definitely more of a realist.  It's part of why they work so well together.  

[Ceindreadh]

10 hours ago, paramitch said:

• Crowley living in his car -- and what did he bring with him? His TORTURED PLANTS!!
•  

 

Crowley as an Angel Sauntering Vaguely Downwards will always be one of the most perfect descriptions of a character ever.

 

 

I love that he brought his plants with him!  And then moved them into the bookshop when Aziraphale took the car.

 

My favourite character description is of Terry Pratchett's 'Nanny Ogg'. 

Spoiler

"Three marriages and an adventurous girlhood had left Nanny Ogg with thigh muscles that could crack coconuts"

 

[storyskip]

5 hours ago, Starchild said:

That would be a consolation prize, certainly, but I would still feel a little robbed if I didn't see a joyful loving reunion acted out by Michael and David.

Both. Can we have both?

I'm torn, because I love David and Michael in their roles, but I would also devour a Neil Gaimen book covering the directions season 3 could go with all of this.

I'm just happy he's saying he will write it if for some reason there is no way to get a Season 3 on air.  I'd hate for Good Omens lore to end where it did for Season 2.

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, Starchild said:

I do believe that Metatron did want to separate them. We've glossed over the tremendous power in their combined miracle to hide Gabriel, that was so strong even though they both put as little into it as they could. But I don't think it escaped Metatron's notice once it was revealed. I think that's what really brought him into this. If they remained working together, what could they do with their  combined power if they really wanted to? They might be able to derail any and all of Heaven's future plans. He can't have that.

As for Aziraphale's face in the elevator, to me it didn't look like real happiness, it looked forced and desperate.

Oh, I forgot all about that but your right. Their small half miracle set off actual alarms in Heaven and they both stopped Armaggedon last season and their punishments from it. That's something he would definitely want stopped. They keep messing up their plans and have so much power and potential power. There's also one more thing that's part of it or part of what your saying. I forget which episode it was (maybe even this one) about how if one leaves the fold it's not a big deal but if more then one leaves it is a big deal and shows that there's cracks in the system when there's not suppose to be. Which may lead to others leaving. What do the other Angels going to start questioning with the top Archangel and the one who believed the most both left. And left with demons. Same with the demon side Beelzbub was pretty high up and all for what they did left, and they thought Crowley was up there doing all kinds of evil things when he wasn't and no one in Hell noticed. That can't be good for either side. One had to come back. Gabriel left. So he had to get Azriaphale back.  Actually, he let Gabriel leave because despite hooking up with a demon is no threat while Arizaphale and Crowley absolutely are to everything. Their plans and the system.

[MissLucas]

I hope it's okay to post this here. While perusing Amazon today I came across this little gem: there will be a Good Omens Tarot deck, released by the end of November! It's created by Minerva Siegel who's also done the Nightmare Before Christmas Tarot and the Labyrinth Tarot (and others based on fantasy IPs).

[Fosca]

11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Their small half miracle set off actual alarms in Heaven and they both stopped Armaggedon last season and their punishments from it. That's something he would definitely want stopped. They keep messing up their plans and have so much power and potential power. 

This.  Plus, quite frankly I think the Metatron would have won either way: by separating them so they couldn't work together to stop the Plan, or by making them both angels so they wouldn't have the power that they have now to bugger it all up (I'm not sure if it's Angel/Demon cooperation power or if it's because these two have been partners for so long and have such a strong connection--I'm kind of learning toward Angel/Demon), plus being able to keep a closer eye on both of them.  The Metatron knew that Aziraphale, who still believes in the system and in it being good, would leave behind everything (including Crowley if necessary) to become Archangel and try to change the system for better.  Smart, the Master--er, Metatron.  

Hmmm.  Then again, if it's Angel/Demon cooperation power, I wonder why they wouldn't be worried about Gabriel/Beelzebub interfering.  Maybe because neither of them have the love that Aziraphale and Crowley have for humanity and the world.  Or maybe it's just those two who have such power together.

[JustHereForFood]

Some more thoughts about episodes 3 & 4 after rewatch:

- Episode 3 might be my favorite, with the flashbacks to the 1820's Edinburgh and Aziraphale's "investigation" in the present day. I liked everything about the moral dilemma around gravedigging for science (for the record, I am 100% on the "a surgeron, not a doctor" 's side here. What a mess that they were still against autopsies less than 200 years ago). It continued the theme of morality and rules from the previous episode's flashback. I also liked Crowley pointing out to Aziraphale how you can't judge people by the same standards when they start with much different circumstances (the lines were actually taken straight from the book, which I loved). I also liked how Crowley tried to talk Elspeth out of commiting suicide and made Aziraphale give her the money to start a new life. Sadly, he apparently couldn't do too obvious good deeds without hell noticing, considering how he was sucked down at the end. Poor guy.

- I loved DT using Scottish accent in the episode and his acting drunk after drinking the laudanum. Also, did not expect to see the Loch Ness monster in the present day when Aziraphale entered Scotland, but it was hilarious.

- Aziraphale blessing Twitter and Grindr 😄. Well, I guess you can't predict everything two years in advance, considering Twitter's current state.

- I did not like ep. 4 flashbacks as much as the previous 2 episodes, but it was still good. I get that they wanted to show Aziraphale doing magic tricks, though it went on way too long IMO. What I liked was how Aziraphale managed to switch the photo at the end when it mattered and how Crowley managed to do the shot even with no experience with guns. And how when Aziraphale commented on it, he simply said "Well, you asked me to trust you."  Also, it is encouraging to see people during the Blitz carrying on about their lives and not lose hope, especially in current situation.

[Starchild]

3 hours ago, Fosca said:

Hmmm.  Then again, if it's Angel/Demon cooperation power, I wonder why they wouldn't be worried about Gabriel/Beelzebub interfering.  Maybe because neither of them have the love that Aziraphale and Crowley have for humanity and the world.  Or maybe it's just those two who have such power together.

Maybe because of their unique situation, having lived on Earth  continuously almost from its beginning, A & C can also draw  booster power from Earth when they combine their efforts. But don't realize it yet. Could this have been their first ever combined miracle?

 

15 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

- Aziraphale blessing Twitter and Grindr 😄. Well, I guess you can't predict everything two years in advance, considering Twitter's current state.

Even so, Aziraphale probably wouldn't know anyway, probably not following Elon's foolishness.

[HelloooKitty]

I LOVED all the Dr. who references! 
I did NOT like the ending. I don’t like the boys sad. 

[Fosca]

OK, is anyone else getting as their Windows sign-in screen picture a nebula described as a "snow angel"?  Very interesting timing, that.

[Morrigan2575]

Huh, so that super powerful miracle was actually Crowley and Aziraphale? I figured it was because Gabriel was in the mix.

I didn't like the ending,  I hope there's a S3 because that's a shitty way to end the story. I will buy the book if Gaiman writes it. 

Michael Sheen is an unbelievable actor, he and Tenant have wonderful chemistry.

[Blue Plastic]

On 8/3/2023 at 2:13 PM, JustHereForFood said:

- I loved the ending to the Job episode, when Aziraphale thinks he is going to hell and looks absolutely miserable and then Crowley laughs at the idea of Aziraphale as a demon. (Seriously, just think about the fact that someone would think they are going to hell for saving the lives of children. I despise Christianity and their hypocrisy, so I had a blast with scenes like these where we can see Heaven's hypocrisy in the show.)

I love this, too, showing up the hypocrisy of the supposedly "good" guys. I also liked the episode about the poor (grave robber) and how Aziraphale (the good guy who really is trying to do the right thing, in his case) was just focusing on grave robbing = bad without realizing how difficult it would be for a poor person (frankly, especially an unmarried, poor woman) in that place and time to get a "respectable" job that would provide any decent chance to get out of poverty. But Crowley totally got it right away.

I didn't really care for the Nina and Maggie subplot. Actually, Nina seemed to outright dislike Maggie and disparaged her record shop and everything. What did Maggie find so alluring? There wasn't enough time to show that, but I'm glad they didn't.

The ending was so sad and depressing, and now I come here and find out a third season isn't a guarantee?! WTF?

[festivus]

Well what does one say to that ending? It was sad but beautiful. I will hope we get another season and hope Aziraphale can come to understand some things but if not, I'm okay with the ending. We don't always see the light right away, and some never do. 

I have to admit that I just don't "get" John Hamm, I don't think he's that funny or good looking but I did love the end with him and Beelzebub. They really sold that sweet romance  in a small amount of time. I think I would have liked him so much more in the role if we had seen more of it throughout the show but I get why narratively it had to be held to the end though.

The acting was so lovely throughout from David Tennant and Michael Sheen. Others have stated it much better than me so I will just leave it there.

I do need to bitch about the one thing that did irritate me though and that was how dismissive Nina was about Maggie's record shop. I really struggled to like that character. And furthermore, ahem, vinyl is back in a big way so that whole thing about her store being so dead made no sense! You ought to see my husband trying to fight get the good stuff at the estate sales. So much competition now. If this were 15, 20, years ago then yeah. We could get records for a dime at yard sales and it was awesome, lol.

[HelloooKitty]

David deserves an Emmy solely for that odd little hop walk he did when he was “arrested” and in heaven. 

[DoctorAtomic]

12 hours ago, festivus said:

I think I would have liked him so much more in the role if we had seen more of it throughout the show but I get why narratively it had to be held to the end though.

I'm not sure it had to be held to the end. We could have seen it and not the characters. That's done on tv all the time. 

12 hours ago, festivus said:

I do need to bitch about the one thing that did irritate me though and that was how dismissive Nina was about Maggie's record shop.

I don't have a record player, so I could at least see why one might not be into vinyl, but with sites like bandcamp out there, clearly, there's a market. I don't think the show was going into much detail, but Maggie should have had a stronger online/mail order business selling to collectors overseas. The store itself should have been on bandcamp or discogs. She could have been breaking new bands too. 

But you have Az with the bookstore even though he won't sell books, so the show is kind of going for a retro vibe. 

[SHD]

22 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Michael Sheen is an unbelievable actor, he and Tenant have wonderful chemistry.

It's why I watch. This is not at all the kind of series I would normally watch, but the chemistry between the leads is great, which was showcased very nicely in Staged.

[JustHereForFood]

Episode 5:

- I did not particularly like the whole set-up about trying to make Nina/Maggie happen, maybe because I kept forgetting why are they even doing it. The whole meeting seemed too long, IMO, but on the other hand, seeing two women dance in a Jane Austen era setting brought a smile to my face.

- Crowley threatening Gabriel was expected, but I was surprised he told him about their season 1 switch. What if Gabriel remembered it once he regained his memory and put two and two together?

I also don't really "get" John Hamm, I'm not sure I even saw him in anything else, but I have to give him credit for playing "Jim" in a way that made him look like a completely different character and yet still I could see a bit of Gabriel in there.

- "Wait and see? Do you have any idea how irritating that is?" Neil is so chill and self-aware.

- Nina and Maggie seem to be obvious parallels to Crowley and Aziraphale, so Crowley telling Nina to trust someone for once in her life is interesting, considering his own trust issues (and of course heartbreaking, considering how the leap of trust goes for him in the next episode). 

 

Episode 6:

- If you had told me in advance about the Gabriel/Beelzebub romance, I wouldn't have thought it would work, but somehow it did. 

- Crowley tidying up the place and looking forward to have some "us" time with Aziraphale was so cute.

- I liked that Nina and Maggie told Crowley that it was not cool to try to pair them up for their own reasons, but I don't really buy that they needed to tell him to sort his own relationship with Aziraphale. My understanding was that they are both probably aware of how close their relationship is to romance and don't need someone from the outside to point it out.

- What can I say about the ending that hasn't been said yet? My first reaction was that it's super sad and depressing, and yet everytime I see it, I like it more and more. The writing and acting is just so damn good and I have to admit, it's a good idea and I would never have guessed it. If only there was a guarantee of the next season, it would be fine. Now it's too much of a risk that it won't get a happy ending and honestly, this was one of the few things I was counting on to have a happy ending. Maybe it's pathetic, but with so much crap in the real world, I had been way too fixed on expecting this season and sometimes just reminding myself that it's going to come has helped me a lot to deal with other stuff. I wish I could start looking forward to the next season now.

- Rewatching that scene, it's so sad to see Aziraphale beeing so happy about the idea of Crowley becoming an angel again. I am completely on Crowley's side here, but still feel sad for Aziraphale too. I am not quite sure how to understand him here. He seeemed so supportive of Gabriel with Beelzebub, so it's not like he believes that demons and angels can't be together. He just got so sold on the idea of Crowley becoming an angel so quickly that he didn't even stop for a minute to consider whether Crowley would want that and once he realized it's not going to work, it probably seemed too late and he just kept insisting and digging himself deeper and deeper. It was like all his development that we've seen in this season including the flashbacks just went away. The argument was an interesting parallel to the one they had in episode 1 about whether they should help Gabriel, but while in that one I was glad that Aziraphale stood his ground and basically said that he would love to work with Crowley, but if he doesn't want to, there's the door. Here, he basically said the same, but since he was completely wrong, it had a different impact.

Michael's acting after the kiss was so good. He looked like he went through several emotions within a second. And then said just about the worst thing he could have. I like how afterwards he still looked so torn, almost like he wanted to change his mind and run after Crowley and like he had to keep telling himself that he made the right choice every few seconds. It was really marvelously acted.

On 8/4/2023 at 2:08 PM, paramitch said:

The little thing that got me the most was that even after Crowley stormed out, Az steps out and -- there's Crowley. Still loyally waiting. Still hoping he will change his mind. And Aziraphale disappoints him (but I think it's interesting to note that Crowley is disappointed -- but not surprised).

Getting back to this, I also liked that little detail. So many times on TV when people break up or have a falling out, there's a moment when they start to look like they are deliberately sabotaging the relationship and don't know how to stop. And we as viewers think that they should just take a breath, there is still time to salvage it, but the characters seem to think that it's already over. I like that here, it looked like Crowley was still waiting to see if Aziraphale might change his mind and maybe show him that there is still a chance, but unfortunately Aziraphale didn't take that chance.

- Derek Jacobi was really good, becoming such a menacing villain in such little time. Question for anyone who understands the religious stuff, if Metatron is supposed to be the voice of God, does that mean that what he says is basically what God says? Do they have some telepathic link or something? Or is he a character who can possibly have his own agenda? I get that they are probably not going to show God as a character, so I wonder if this is meant as a sort of stand-in or as a completely separate character.

[Fosca]

18 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

If only there was a guarantee of the next season, it would be fine. Now it's too much of a risk that it won't get a happy ending and honestly, this was one of the few things I was counting on to have a happy ending. Maybe it's pathetic, but with so much crap in the real world, I had been way too fixed on expecting this season and sometimes just reminding myself that it's going to come has helped me a lot to deal with other stuff. I wish I could start looking forward to the next season now.

Your entire post was fantastic, but this in particular is 100% true for me.  The past few years I've found I can't watch/read/enjoy anything unless there's a happy ending (or I know there won't be and can prepare myself--I'm not sure I'm going to be able to watch the next series of Doctor Who, even with the return of Ten, since that show has a tendency to introduce lovely people in an episode and then kill them off--nope, can't do it).  I've always been sensitive, but it's now ratcheted up to 11.  Dammit, Crowley and Aziraphale deserve a happy ending (or at least not an unhappy one!).

I know Neil Gaiman has said he will write a book about Part 3, but I want to see David Tennant and Michael Sheen act it.  Watching those two in this show just makes me so happy.  

[Llywela]

I feel like some of the folks here might be interested in reading this very long essay analysing Good Omens 2 and theorising about what Neil might be up to, setting up the cards for season 3:

The Magic Trick You Didn’t See: Being An Analysis of Good Omens Season 2

It's an extremely long essay and I don't agree with all of it, but it does present some very interesting food for thought. Let's hope we get that season 3 and can find out!

Edited August 9, 2023 by Llywela

[festivus]

That is a very interesting theory. I'm not really a writer but I read enough fanfic to see where she's coming from especially regarding the Maggie theory. I also am intrigued by her comments about the music and the cinematography and now I want to go watch both seasons again. 

Oh, how I wish I had the attention to detail that this lady has, lol.

[StarBrand]

Just finished S2 up.

I can't get over how effective the side-by-side shots of Crowley and Aziraphale with the credits rolling. Crowley is doing his best stoic act, while you can see the thousands of thoughts going on in Az's head. It was a much more melanchoic ending than I would have expected.

[JustHereForFood]

11 hours ago, Llywela said:

I feel like some of the folks here might be interested in reading this very long essay analysing Good Omens 2 and theorising about what Neil might be up to, setting up the cards for season 3:

The Magic Trick You Didn’t See: Being An Analysis of Good Omens Season 2

It's an extremely long essay and I don't agree with all of it, but it does present some very interesting food for thought. Let's hope we get that season 3 and can find out!

Regarding the credits, I didn't notice much because they go pretty fast, but there are behind the scenes videos on Amazon Prime and one is just about the credits and what easter eggs are in them. There were apparently actual red herrings in one shot.

 

[andromeda331]

Rewatching it's interesting that Crowley runs in and stops Mrs. Job as she's about to say she doesn't care if their casted out by God and mentions she doesn't want to do that. He's been there. Despite all he says he doesn't want anyone else to be cast out. I also wonder if that and his other comments is what makes Arizaphale think he'll agree to wanting to come back as an Angel because now they can change things. 

I do wish with the gravedigger that she pointed out how little jobs there are for the poor especially if your a woman. It's really that, stealing or prostitution. Otherwise it's still really great scenes.

When they first mention Edinburgh I thought about when they flip a coin during the Shakespear play to go to Edinburgh. 

Nina and Maggie are still really boring but I do still really appreciate them telling Crowley that it was wrong to try and get them together. I kind of wish that would come up on other shows. How many shows and romance movies are there people trying to do that? 

I love that Arizaphale knows that Crowley likes to come to his rescue.

I like that Arizaphale has a driver's license and made the guy give him a test even though they didn't have them at the time. I kind of want to see that flashback.

Crowley threatening to sell a book. I realized I'd be the exact same book seller as Arizaphale. 

They still should have given us a Jane Austen criminial mastermind flashback. 

[MissLucas]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

They still should have given us a Jane Austen criminial mastermind flashback. 

Yep! I've read some of the Austen as detective books out there. But Austen as a diamond robber, brandy smuggler, and master spy in the hands of Gaiman would be on a whole different level!
 

[festivus]

I'll admit that I didn't remember much of season one at all, hell, I forgot John Hamm was in it. My husband did and he can't remember shit either so that is just terrifying, lol. Anyhoo, I was searching the thread to see if I posted my thoughts. I didn't because that's a thing I do. Or don't do. But I did find this:

 

On 6/15/2019 at 7:34 PM, Kostgard said:

If they do another season (please do!), I hope it is (as mentioned up thread) basically just Aziraphale and Crowley dicking around through history. In fact, just rename the show “Aziraphale and Crowley Dick Around through History: The Charming and Surprisingly Sweet Love Story Between an Angel and Demon Who Love Mankind and Each Other Too Much To Do Their Jobs, So They Mostly Half-Ass It and Spend All Their Time Hanging Out, Eating Lunch, and Drinking Copious Amounts of Wine”.

 

If you're still here Kostgard, good job. It kinda was that. 

For some reason, I've now become obsessed with this show and I've been all over Reddit reading theories. I did see where Neil said that if we didn't get another season he'd write the book. That's a good thing although I still stand by my opinion of liking the ending. I realize this is the 2nd act of a 3 act play but I tend to like sad or bittersweet endings if they are done well and this one was. 

Having said that, boy is it fun to read the theories of where things might go. 

I do plan to watch both seasons again soon and see what I think. 

[Starchild]

Right? One I came across and hadn't thought of, but which I find very intriguing, is that Crowley, adrift without his angel, will take Beelzebub's vacated position, setting up a potential conflict between the two of them.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Starchild

[festivus]

I think my favorite theories are the ones about who Crowley was. I've seen some good arguments for Raphael or Lucifer. That's the thing I needs to know the most. I do think it will be a huge part of season three. Or book if we don't get it. 😥

[GingerPudding]

On 8/13/2023 at 2:21 PM, MissLucas said:

Yep! I've read some of the Austen as detective books out there. But Austen as a diamond robber, brandy smuggler, and master spy in the hands of Gaiman would be on a whole different level!
 

I wonder if Jane Austen being crazy wild is a reference to Old Harry's Game. It was a radio play on BBC ages ago and I'm sure John Finnemore would have been familiar with it. It's fab, but a bit dated, if you can find it anywhere. 

From Wikipedia - 

"The series is set mainly in Hell, and the plot usually centres on the relationships and conflicts between Satan, his various minions, and the damned with (occasionally) interventions by God and other denizens of Heaven. Satan himself is identified with the fallen angel in Christianity and portrayed as jaded from millennia in charge of Hell and the expectation that he will continue to be so for eternity. Although he enjoys some aspects of the job, such as the opportunity to play pranks in the world of the living, and devising ironic torments for those damned souls whom he believes deserve it. His greatest wish is to someday be accepted back into Heaven, and he often wistfully recalls his past as an archangel.

The series regularly features famous historical figures and celebrities, most of whom are portrayed as being less likeable than (or at least different from) the version recorded by history. This includes a foul-mouthed and extremely violent Jane Austen, a sexually predatory Florence Nightingale, a less-than-heroic Samson, and a vacuous Helen of Troy (accompanied by her plain-looking friend, Daphne)."

 

[Aulty]

2 hours ago, GingerPudding said:

I wonder if Jane Austen being crazy wild is a reference to Old Harry's Game. It was a radio play on BBC ages ago and I'm sure John Finnemore would have been familiar with it. It's fab, but a bit dated, if you can find it anywhere.

Andy Hamilton (the creator of Old Harry's Game and voice of Satan in the series) was in season 1 - the demon Hastor uses to test the bath water with. I love OHG and it would be hilarious if there was a connection in the Austen story.

I was rooting for Andy Hamilton to be the voice of Satan in GO but, alas, they cast Cumberbatch just to distort his voice work beyond recognition.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Aulty

[Morrigan2575]

23 hours ago, festivus said:

I think my favorite theories are the ones about who Crowley was. I've seen some good arguments for Raphael or Lucifer. That's the thing I needs to know the most. I do think it will be a huge part of season three. Or book if we don't get it. 😥

Crowley isn't Lucifer, we met Lucifer/the Devil in S1, Raphael is a possibility but; that would have made him an archangel and, you'd think Michael, Gabriel, or Uriel would have mentioned that...not to say that Gaimen couldn't retcon Crowley to be Raphael but, I'd rather he didn't and,  just let Crowley be a generic fallen angel.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Morrigan2575

[festivus]

I'm just reading theories, I haven't committed to any yet. I don't know my bible lore cause I'm not really into that stuff. But I read that when the book of Job was written, that Satan and Lucifer were not the same person as people today think.

I've been reading many things and honestly I have my own crackpot theory that I haven't seen elsewhere. I want to watch the whole show again and ponder it before I post it. 

One other theory I read is that Muriel may be Raphael. I need to read more about bible stuff cause like I said I don't know much about it. I also plan to read that book The Crow Road that Muriel was reading.

[Morrigan2575]

18 minutes ago, festivus said:

But I read that when the book of Job was written, that Satan and Lucifer were not the same person as people today think.

Lucifer vs Satan depends on if you're talking Christianity or Judism.  In Judism there isn't really the Devil/Satan that exists in Christianity. In Judism Lucifer was God's arbiter, he would test humans faith, as in the Book of Job, where he was still an Angel (IIRC)

In Christianity Lucifer=the Devil/Satan. He's a fallen archangel who tried to overthrow God and, was kicked out by Michael. Good Omens was based on The Omen, which is steeped in the Christian religion with the Anticheist and all that. 

So, while anything is possible I think it's unlikely that Gaimen would change Satan/Devil/Lucifer into different people. He's way too loyal to Terry Pratchett to mess around with the story like that.

[iMonrey]

Just finished Season 2. It's been so long since I watched Season 1 I barely remember anything about it. But just from reading what I posted about it, I think this season was probably a little bit more cohesive and streamlined than the first. There were lots of things I liked about it, but much like Season 1, I was never particularly compelled to binge it in a hurry and it took me awhile to work my way through all six episodes.

I'm not sure how I feel about the ending. I don't recall ever thinking about Aziraphale and Crowley as a romantic couple. I got a bit of a laugh out of Nina assuming they were one but when the show actually went there I was nonplussed by it. I just didn't think they were going there and I'm not sure they should have.

Also not sure what to make of Aziraphale reacting by saying "I forgive you." Was that supposed to represent some sort of biblically ingrained homophobia, that he considered the kiss a sin? 

I might go back and rewatch Season 1 to see if I remember thinking there were signs back then. 

[JustHereForFood]

On 8/14/2023 at 11:35 PM, festivus said:

I think my favorite theories are the ones about who Crowley was. I've seen some good arguments for Raphael or Lucifer. That's the thing I needs to know the most. I do think it will be a huge part of season three. Or book if we don't get it. 😥

 

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Crowley isn't Lucifer, we met Lucifer/the Devil in S1, Raphael is a possibility but; that would have made him an archangel and, you'd think Michael, Gabriel, or Uriel would have mentioned that...not to say that Gaimen couldn't retcon Crowley to be Raphael but, I'd rather he didn't and,  just let Crowley be a generic fallen angel.

I would prefer if they don't go there and concentrate more on who he is now. He said in one of the episodes that he's not the angel that Aziraphale knew anyway.

And Neil refuted the Lucifer theory:

https://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/725675225535184896/hey-i-may-be-stupid-but-when-metatron-is