Looking - General Discussion

[bunnywithanaxe]

I have to admit, it was hard to focus on Megan and Patrick's torrid moral relativism discussion with that handsome Marabou stork in the background.

(Sorry, but I know that stork personally. And that better have been actual  shrimp Mom was chucking at him. Quinoa chips? Really?)

Edited March 16, 2015 by bunnywithanaxe

[SFoster21]

Maybe Dom's money troubles will lead to the return of Scott Baio.

Don't give up the rent controlled apt, Pat!

Edited March 16, 2015 by SFoster21

[DrivingSideways]

Wow.  The scenes with Patrick, his mom and sister are the most ham-fisted and horribly acted in the sad history of this show.  Could his family be any more cartoonish and waspy?

 

On the other hand, Augustin and his boo are cute.

[bunnywithanaxe]

Wow.  The scenes with Patrick, his mom and sister are the most ham-fisted and horribly acted in the sad history of this show. 

Oh, thank you. This is why I found the stork so interesting. I have spent months looking forward to the zoo ep-- I am a zoo member, thank you-- and what do I get? Some freaking telanovela, with everyone's backs to the animals.

The non- zoo part of the show, though, were really good. I love Auggie and Boo, as well, and I really felt for Doris this ep. I could not believe what a prick Dom was being. I get that he was shaken and disappointed that the anticipated money was not in question, but to go off on her like that? Someone wrestling through probate, and having probably a thousand problems in her own life that the estate stall complicates? Fine, freak out, but how fucking dare you scold someone who has pretty much offered you their life's savings? (or potential of such?) Heartless  dick!

 

We were puzzled when Doris collapsed in front of Malik, but not Dom. I think I have a little more insight now as to why that was. Good move, Show-- now I want to see how they work all that out.

 

Edited March 16, 2015 by bunnywithanaxe

[ElectricBoogaloo]

In the season finale, Patrick reassesses his relationship; Dom wants to patch things up with Doris; Agustin celebrates at the mural unveiling event.

 

Promo:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

[Irlandesa]

Wow.  The scenes with Patrick, his mom and sister are the most ham-fisted and horribly acted in the sad history of this show.  Could his family be any more cartoonish and waspy?

Yeah, those scenes were not good.  I am so desperate to have someone hold a mirror up to Patrick and while Megan had her moments, she was the wrong one to do it.  The audience has no investment in her and Patrick finds it pretty easy to dismiss her.  And that's unfortunate because she did offer some truths.  Patrick is a naracissist.  And it was nice to have some sense about Jon because you'd never know about how ugly breakups are by watching Kevin and Patrick despite Patrick's lame protestations that he thinks about John. Whatever. 

 

Instead, it was mostly about petty sibling arguing and the mother discussing how she's leaving their father for another man.  That twist is a bit too pat, a bit too relevant, but I will give props to Dana for how she timed it.  Knowing what Patrick did with Kevin, it was nice emotional blackmail.  He had no ground to protest.

 

But goodness I am so sick of Kevin and Patrick.  There hasn't been one episode this season without them. 

 

The Dom and Doris fight could be a good one but it feels like the intensity of it came out of nowhere. 

 

The best part of the episode was Agustin and Eddie.  That's one conflict that has built nicely over the season.  Agustin has pursued and Eddie has tried to keep him at a distance.  Seeing Frank (beautiful Frank) again brought that to a head but it was handled well by both. 

 

I've tried to be patient but I miss Richie.  I know they feel they can barely spare a minute or two of Patrick's life for the other characters but it would be nice if we got to see a Patrick-less Richie.  A Richie without that tension. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Damn it, Dom! He was such a good friend to Doris when her dad died but now he is being a dick. It is HIS fault for spending the money that Doris offered to him before he actually had it in his bank account. She didn't tell him to go order neon signs and kitchen equipment immediately. He should have waited and he didn't. That is on him, not Doris.

 

I know Patrick is the main character but I am so tired of him and Kevin. I can't believe they are moving in together after three months total in their relationship (which includes all the sneaking around). Try having a normal relationship that everyone knows about for a few months before you give up your rent controlled apartment.

 

I was ready for Megan to give Patrick some truth but mostly she just gave him whiny judgmental crap and making it all about her (heh, I guess that narcissism runs in the family!), how SHE has to see Jon's sad face, how SHE doesn't want Patrick to bring Kevin home for Christmas.

 

But what really got me was when she said that Patrick gets a pass on everything for being gay and said that he GETS TO live in San Francisco. Bitch, please. No one is stopping you from living in San Francisco (not to mention that the population of SF is not entirely gay - they let straight people live there too!). And Patrick "gets to" not have kids because he is gay. Again, no one is forcing Megan to have kids. Lots of married heterosexual adults choose not to have children. If she doesn't want to have kids but feels like she has to because she is married, that is her own issue, and that's certainly not Patrick's fault. As for his job where he gets to work on video games, again, no one is stopping her from doing that if she wants to.

 

She sounds like she resents the fact that she doesn't get to live in San Francisco childless at a job she enjoys when the truth is that Patrick isn't the one stopping her from doing any of that. The fact that Patrick DOES do those things has nothing to do with the fact that he's gay. There are lots of childless heterosexual married people who live in San Francisco and work on video games and have jobs they enjoy.

 

That little rant of hers kind of ruined the credibility of any of her arguments for me. I get being upset that her husband's best friend just had his heart broken, but most of what she complained about was centered around her, not Jon or even much of Patrick. As for her issue about the way Kevin left, that's something she has to take up with Kevin, not Patrick. Patrick is not Kevin and he is not responsible for whatever Kevin did or didn't say to Jon when they broke up.

 

When their mom said she was thinking about leaving their dad, I thought Megan would tell Patrick this was his evil influence that convinced their mom it's okay to just abandon someone you love. Heh, I did love when their mom told her to STFU because she's only been married for three months. I'm not condoning cheating but at the same time, if you are unhappy in your relationship I don't think you should stay out of obligation and just resign yourself to being unhappy for the rest of your life.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Patrick's mom: So that's a leather daddy?

 

Patrick's mom: Megan has a very strict moral code. You know that.

Patrick: Oh, come on. She cheated on her SATs!

 

Eddie: Don't be so telenovela.

 

Patrick's mom: Did you want a xanax, honey? Cause I got some.

 

Eddie: For the record, emotional blackmail doesn't work on me.

 

Patrick: Mom, I don't think you should be feeding the animals.

Patrick's mom: Honey, these are quinoa chips from Whole Foods.

 

Patrick's mom: If someone makes me happy and wants to be with me and I want to be with him, I shouldn't do anything? I should stay?

[shrewd.buddha]

Patrick's Mom said that Megan had been married for three months. So in three month's time, Jon proposed to Kevin, Kevin began an affair with Patrick, Kevin and Jon broke up, and Kevin is now asking Patrick to move in with him. Wow. 

 

I think the writers write the character Jon with no reference to an actual person. They just throw out dialogue from Kevin stating such things as Jon and he didn't have what he and Patrick have. So why did Kevin have a long-term relationship with Jon? Why did Jon move to SF for Kevin? Why did Jon call on nights when he was away to check in with Kevin? Why did Kevin accept when Jon proposed to him at Megan's wedding? 

Does Kevin just not like nice people? Again - the writers are not doing a good job here.

 

The writing is also bad for Dom this episode. Suddenly he becomes a horrible person  who blames other people for his impulsive spending problems. He and Doris have been together for twenty years ... they should have seen each other from about every angle by now, so her suddenly having a revelation about the unhealthiness of their codependency is a bit of a stretch.

 

It also bugs when characters can't seem to realize their dissatisfaction with their lives and relationships until a third party comes along. This goes for Dom/Doris/Malik, Patrick/Kevin/Jon and Patrick's Mom. It is as if they are saying they don't want to take responsibility for creating their own happiness and expect it to come from someone else. 

 

The stuff with Augustin and Eddie was better - but again, it took a third party, and Eddie's jealousy of Frank, to move their relationship a step forward. Nice to see Frank again, tho. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved that when faced with Frank, Agustin was struggling to find a way to say, "I'm not a horrible person anymore!" I know Frank is supposed to be hot but I couldn't get past the overalls with that shirt (even as I still wanted to high five him for dumping S1 Agustin).

Edited March 16, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[sugarbaker design]

I was hoping Frank would say "What have you done with Season One Agustin?"

[Sheenieb]

 

I really felt for Doris this ep. I could not believe what a prick Dom was being. I get that he was shaken and disappointed that the anticipated money was not in question, but to go off on her like that? Someone wrestling through probate, and having probably a thousand problems in her own life that the estate stall complicates? Fine, freak out, but how fucking dare you scold someone who has pretty much offered you their life's savings? (or potential of such?) Heartless  dick!

I get that, but I don't think that Doris came across well, either.  She was a little insensitive.  I'll have to rewatch the episode, but I don't know if she even apologized.  It's not her fault, yes, but, I don't think an "I'm sorry that this is going to be tied for four months" wouldn't have killed her, either.  Dom should've waited until he had the money, but her seeing how much time and effort he was putting into his chicken window, as well as his disappointment, should've softened her delivery.  All she needed to do was Kanye-shrug to add extra emphasis on how nonchalant she was.

 

Megan made me want Patrick and Kevin to send her a selfie while banging against the window.  She was so damn awful.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Sheenieb

[Garnett7]

Patrick's sister was an annoying twit but I can't disagree with anything she said about Patrick/Kevin/Jon. Paddy never gave Jon or his feelings a second though. And Kevin's handling of his relationship with Jon was an epic fail.

 

And he doesn't have a leg to stand on when Mom is talking about leaving Dad. He clearly wants to object but that'd just make his hypocrisy all the more glaring.

 

Oh, Dom, why you gotta be an idiot? Doris' father that she adored just died. Stop making this about you!

 

How messed up is it that Augustine is the most likable one of the trio right now?

 

Kevin and Patrick are moving a warp speed in this relationship. It's ridiculous.

 

I agree with others who say how sick of Patrick they are. I get that he's the "main character" but can't he at least be written as semi-likable? I miss Richie terribly. I don't care if he's not in Patrick's orbit, I don't want him there honestly, but can't he have his own storyline, show? Please?

[sinkwriter]

 

Damn it, Dom! He was such a good friend to Doris when her dad died but now he is being a dick. It is HIS fault for spending the money that Doris offered to him before he actually had it in his bank account. She didn't tell him to go order neon signs and kitchen equipment immediately. He should have waited and he didn't. That is on him, not Doris.

 

AGREED. 

 

I can understand him freaking out in the moment and losing his temper without thinking first about what he's saying (and how ungrateful he sounds that she even offered him the money in the first place). But... as she said, she did not tell him to go ahead and order stuff. He did that on his own. He acted impulsively out of excitement and he should not have done that. He jumped the gun.

 

Anyone who's ever experienced anything involving funerals and wills (or even simply read anything or watched a TV program involving the topic, for crying out loud) knows that these things take time, often months before all the financial stuff has been ironed out. When my grandmother died, my dad and his siblings didn't fight each other on anything, they were all one unit of agreement and it still took months to gather all the documents they needed (proof of death, etc.), take charge of Grandma's accounts, pay her final bills, sign everything, get everything resolved and every company notified of her death, etc., before any money from her will came to them.

 

Dom was crazy to get started so quickly. He did this with Lynn too -- he wanted to dive in and just take his chances that he'd know how to manage everything and not lose money on the venture. He wasn't spending his own money, it would have been Lynn's capital, so I think he was too disconnected to the responsibility of managing and spending that money because it wasn't his hard-earned cash. Same with Doris's money --  Dom had no real connection to it as a responsible person other than wanting it desperately for his chicken window. To Doris it's so much more than that; it's steeped in family and her father's death and all that comes with it.

 

He shouldn't have spent ahead of time, he shouldn't have said the things he did, and I would hate to see him ruin a wonderful 20+ year friendship because of his foolishness. Oh, Dom...

 

I get that, but I don't think that Doris came across well, either.  She was a little insensitive.  I'll have to rewatch the episode, but I don't know if she even apologized.

 

She started out much more calm and careful with her words, listening to him rant, even telling Dom to take a breath, that everything would be fine. But he said terrible things, and then she got angry. I don't blame her. Dom was pretty insensitive and self-serving, and I think deep down he was angry because he knows it's his own fault for jumping the gun.

Edited March 16, 2015 by sinkwriter

[sinkwriter]

I think Patrick's mom is growing on me. She was pretty funny in this episode, and I thought she made some decent points. Patrick's sister on the other hand... just a giant YES to everything in Electric Boogaloo's post about it, above. She has the right to be pissed at her brother for some of the less-than-stellar moral choices he's making, but to equate it to him "getting away with stuff" because he's gay? That's bullshit. If she's unhappy with the state of her life, or the choices she feels that she "has to" make, that's her issue. It has nothing to do with one's sexuality. She can make different choices too, if she wants. And if she doesn't, that's on her, not on her brother or his sexuality. What an idiot.

Edited March 16, 2015 by sinkwriter

[sinkwriter]

Heaven help me, I like Agustin again. He and Eddie were pretty adorable in this episode (and throughout this season), and I like the changes we see in him in stark contrast to just how very frustrating he was last season. It's frightening, but I do like him.

Did the episode end right when Patrick said "I want to move in with you and spend Christmas with you, just the two of us?" Or was there more? Because that's when my recording cut out.

[Helena Dax]

I've never understood what's so wrong about two friends living together forever.  Unusual? Yes. But weird or dysfunctional? I don't see why. Of course, if Doris wants to move in  with  Malik she's free to  do it and she shouldn't feel guilty, but that doesn't mean spending  the rest of  your life with a very good friend is something you should be ashamed of. 

 

Patrick and Kevin shouldn't be rushing things...

 

Loved to hear Jimmy Somerville  in the background.  

[sinkwriter]

I think the issue comes when they use their friendship as a shield to protect themselves and avoid the possibility of committing to relationships with other people. Like Doris said, they're not growing up. They've never really learned to behave like adults, take responsibility for their actions, take chances in love and life, because they're afraid, and hiding in the safety of their friendship was easier to do.

[MizStaken]

Sink, yep that's where it ended. Got a bit of a smile from Kevin, then credits.

So, we know now that Kevin dumped Jon, rather unceremoniously. Guess he didn't see that coming after all.

Yes they are moving way too fast, but i think Patrick freaked after talking to his mother, knowing that it can all be gone and done in an instant. Least that's what I got out of that conversation. 

Damn Dom, that was rough. Doris had no idea her uncle would contest the will. Seems a rather petty thing to do too but, stuff happens. Dom shouldn't have gone full steam until Doris had cash in hand. But maybe this will be a nice way to bring back Scott Bakula, not Scott Baio as someone up thread mentioned.

Gotta wonder how this is all going to end up next week. 

Oh and Auggie and Eddie, so cute!

[sinkwriter]

Thanks, MizStaken!

 

 

Dom shouldn't have gone full steam until Doris had cash in hand. But maybe this will be a nice way to bring back Scott Bakula, not Scott Baio as someone up thread mentioned.

 

LOL!! I was so confused by the Scott Baio reference up thread! I just assumed I'd missed part of the conversation or something. You're right -- they probably did mean Scott Bakula. Heee. 

[vixenbynight]

I think the issue comes when they use their friendship as a shield to protect themselves and avoid the possibility of committing to relationships with other people. Like Doris said, they're not growing up. They've never really learned to behave like adults, take responsibility for their actions, take chances in love and life, because they're afraid, and hiding in the safety of their friendship was easier to do.

Agreed and that's why Doris responded with the horrible negative connotation/and sneer in her voice of "A fag and his hag".

They spent the majority of their lives together and Doris, probably assumed that Dom would be the one to finally find someone over her getting a man.

When she said, that she feels guilty about putting Dom's feelings before Malik's, that was a truth, that she probably tried to deny, in her mind, because it has always just been her and Dom.

They had flings, but at the end of the night, beginning of the work week, Dom and Doris were probably sitting on their couch, going over the tricks that Dom had during the weekend.

Even though Dom says that he's supporting the relationship between Doris and Malik, it probably does feel like cheating, betrayal and being torn between these two people for her.

Heck, at least she's more broken up about how this is affecting change in her relationship with Dom, over what Kevin has shown towards Jon.

[romantic idiot]

re: Dom and Doris, I get where both are coming from. Doris wasn't at fault but maybe she also convinced Dom that he shouldn't worry and he should go ahead because there was no problem. On the other hand, I think the people we are closest to get the ugliest parts of our anger and upset because our belief in that relationship is that rock solid...so...Dom maybe didn't realise that. 

 

I am worried that the writers didn't talk about the Kevin / Patrick beats this episode, and not really that much in the last episode. I don't miss Richie that much, but I am sure we are going to get a lot more of him. 

 

It's also interesting that this sorted out Kevin's version of things, Kevin did leave John, as he stated, contrary to a lot of speculation. 

 

And while 3 months is fast (all those people highlighting that has to mean something, right?) I think both Kevin and Patrick feel that they've been together longer because they've been circling each other for a long while now. 

[sinkwriter]

I think Dom is both supportive and jealous.

 

He sees that Malik is good with Doris, so he helped to nudge them together and remind Doris to leave her safety zone because it's obvious she really likes Malik. At the same time, Dom's supportiveness hasn't stopped him from also making passive aggressive statements, like when she walked in and he made a comment about "Oh, there you are, I wasn't expecting you to show up" just because she chose one weekend to be with Malik instead of Dom. I think he's both glad to see Doris so happy, while scared of what that will mean for his friendship with her, and what it will mean for him suddenly becoming the "odd man out" without a relationship of his own. It's got to hurt, especially since he tried to put himself out there to be in a real relationship with Lynn, but Lynn was unable to give more. 

 

I'm frustrated with Dom in this episode, but I also feel bad for him.

[sinkwriter]

I'm sensing impending doom for Patrick. He's giving up a lot of himself -- his self-respect (getting involved with someone who already had a boyfriend), his chance at a relationship that could have developed into something good if he'd kept working at it (his relationship with Richie), and now even his rent-controlled apartment (are you crazy, Patrick??). 

 

If last season Agustin was the one headed for a rock-bottom crash into the gutter, then I think it's Patrick who's going to see rock bottom and be completely stunned by it this season. If the show gets renewed, I can see Patrick needing the redemption arc next season because he's been a total mess. Maybe not in the same way Agustin was last season, but a total mess nonetheless. (Sorry for the unfortunate rhyme. LOL.)

[sinkwriter]

Best line of the episode for me?

 

Patrick's mom to Patrick after his sister disses him quite rudely: Did you want a Xanax, honey? (pause) 'Cause I got some.

 

LOL.

[vixenbynight]

I think Dom is both supportive and jealous.

He sees that Malik is good with Doris, so he helped to nudge them together and remind Doris to leave her safety zone because it's obvious she really likes Malik. At the same time, Dom's supportiveness hasn't stopped him from also making passive aggressive statements, like when she walked in and he made a comment about "Oh, there you are, I wasn't expecting you to show up" just because she chose one weekend to be with Malik instead of Dom. I think he's both glad to see Doris so happy, while scared of what that will mean for his friendship with her, and what it will mean for him suddenly becoming the "odd man out" without a relationship of his own. It's got to hurt, especially since he tried to put himself out there to be in a real relationship with Lynn, but Lynn was unable to give more.

I'm frustrated with Dom in this episode, but I also feel bad for him.

Agreed.

What's going on between Doris and Dom is no different, from what us straight folks experience in our late 20s/early 30s (male and female): All of our fellow friends, pairing off, finding terrific folks that make them happy, getting engaged, married, having kids and then moving away to the suburbs or another part of the country, because it's the right thing for them and their family.

[SFoster21]

Thanks, MizStaken!

LOL!! I was so confused by the Scott Baio reference up thread! I just assumed I'd missed part of the conversation or something. You're right -- they probably did mean Scott Bakula. Heee.

I did. Forgive the ignorance.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think that Dom's other subconscious issue with Doris/Malik is that he has been used to being the #1 person in her life for decades now and as much as he wants Doris to be happy, it hurts a little to know that he isn't her first priority anymore. That happens to lots of friendships when one person starts dating or gets marries or has a kid. The other person feels a little left out even if they understand it on a logical level. Her relationship with Malik has changed the dynamics of her friendship with Dom. With casual relationships in the past, she would have helped Dom with stuff at the restaurant instead of going to Vallejo for a kid's birthday party. Dom is still adjusting to these changes in their friendship.

But he was still wrong to yell at her about that money! Having the will contested is stressful for her and will cause more tension in her family. It's not just about Dom and his stupid decision to order stuff before he actually had the money.

[bobbyhill]

 

LOL!! I was so confused by the Scott Baio reference up thread! I just assumed I'd missed part of the conversation or something. You're right -- they probably did mean Scott Bakula. Heee.

Scott Baio on this show would be hilarious. But since he's a conservative Republican, I doubt we'll ever see that.

Edited March 17, 2015 by bobbyhill

[Irlandesa]

I think at the :16 mark, I think we see Dom's "Defying Gravity" hook up at the party Kevin & Patrick are at.  I hope he sings again.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I am picturing young Chachi in his leather jacket wandering into The Stud.

[txhorns79]

What's going on between Doris and Dom is no different, from what us straight folks experience in our late 20s/early 30s (male and female): All of our fellow friends, pairing off, finding terrific folks that make them happy, getting engaged, married, having kids and then moving away to the suburbs or another part of the country, because it's the right thing for them and their family.

 

I'd disagree.  Dom and Doris are much more co-dependent than the people would be in the scenario you describe.  I'd say the situation with Malik is much more akin to a long-term couple divorcing because one of them has found someone else.    

Edited March 17, 2015 by txhorns79

[DollEyes]

Irlandesa: From my perspective, re the potential business fallout re Patrick & Kevin, the public may not care about the more boring, business-related details of things, but one thing can change that: sex. A juicy sex scandal can get even the dullest business story more attention, for better and for worse. Case in point: while I'm no follower of the stock market, seeing The Wolf Of Wall Street, with all the sex, drugs and insider trading, was a fascinating portrait of the rise and fall of Jordan Belfort, aka the title role.  If Brady does do an expose' and digs up the dirt about Patrick and Kevin, including Jon's perspective, it could get all kinds of attention for the company, good and bad.

 

  As for Dom, Doris and Malik, I don't think that Malik alone is the danger to their friendship, but what Malik represents for Doris, as in her evolving to another stage in her life, in which she and Dom need each other less, could be, at least in Dom's mind.

[romantic idiot]

Eh, seriously I don't see anyone getting too excited about 2 game nerds who create and app, but I don't live in the States, so you guys know better. 

 

Patrick didn't defend Richie to Agustin at Dom's birthday party.

 

What i saw was Patrick not being given the chance to defend Richie because Richie jumped on Agustin when he heard himself being insulted while eavesdropping. We don't know that Patrick wouldn't have defended Agustin. What we did see the next episode, I think was Patrick telling Agustin that he'd promised Auggie wouldn't malign Richie anymore and i don't think that was Dom extracting that vow from Auggie.

and he even lied about Richie's future plans to Kevin and Jon

I don't think he lied. I think Patrick assumed that Richie would like to grow beyond being a barber, and he was wrong about that, But I don't think that was an instance of Patrick lying about Richie.

. I also remember Richie taking the blame for what happened on the wedding day and admitting that he was working on his issues. However, I do agree that Patrick and Richie are wrong for each other, but it's because of Patrick's  issues, not Richie's.  

Disagree. I think they both have incompatible issues. Richie walked away. Because of Richie's issues with insecurity and pride. Had Richie not walked away, I don't think Patrick / Kevin could have even started. Even without listing the ways, I find it very difficult in any relationship that doesn't work, to blame only one part of the equation. IMO that's usually not the case. 

 

re: Jon blaming Patrick - Patrick didn't owe Jon anything, Kevin did. 

[DollEyes]

  If someone had told me last year that by S2 one of my favorite main characters on this show would be Agustin, I would've thought that they were on drugs, but sure enough, that's what's happened. What a difference a season makes. Agustin still has his faults, but he's not as bad as he used to be, as he proved in this episode. Despite his understandable misgivings about doing the "Tolerance" mural for the shelter and being emotionally blackmailed by Eddie into it, Agustin did it anyway, mostly for selfless reasons. Some of it was to impress Eddie, but the rest was because it was the right thing to do for the kids' sakes. On the personal front, Agustin handled Frank's return much better than expected. Frank was hotter than ever ( shitty wardrobe aside), but Agustin kept his cool. When Agustin put Eddie on blast for his reaction to Agustin's introducing Eddie as his "friend" to Frank, I agreed with Agustin! Like Agustin said, Eddie was the one who set the tone for their relationship from the start, so he shouldn't have gotten mad at Agustin for doing what Eddie wanted. Agustin has not only liked Eddie from the moment they met, he's been proving it ever since. Eddie's reluctance to trust Agustin was understandable at first, but Agustin's not the asshole he used to be and Eddie's the reason. Eddie's a good influence on Agustin and it shows, which Eddie finally realized when he asked Agustin to be his boyfriend, which was one of the few highlights of the episode. It was sweet, romantic and sexy. If I didn't already ship Eddie and Agustin, this episode would've made me a shipper.

 

  Re Dom and Doris, while Doris shouldn't have promised Dom money that she doesn't officially have, Dom shouldn't have spent it before Doris had it to give. Doris' mistake can be chalked up to grief so I'll give her a pass; Dom, otoh, was a selfish dick. Doris has been Dom's best friend since they were kids and Dom should've remembered and respected that, not counted his chickens before they were hatched nor picked a fight with Doris because of it. However, Dom & Doris' argument did make them see that they have to make some big changes where their friendship is concerned. Dom & Doris' friendship shouldn't end-just evolve. Being best friends is one thing; being co-dependent is another.

 

 Patrick, Megan and Dana's trip to the zoo was a disaster. Dana's telling the kids that she had fallen for another man and planned to divorce their father was an unpleasant surprise. Marriage is a very complicated thing, whether it's for 3 months or 30 years and sometimes the longer a marriage lasts, the worse it gets. A person shouldn't stay married to someone they don't love, but there are two sides to every story and I'm curious to hear how Patrick & Megan's dad feels about it.  Megan was rude, annoying and unfair to Patrick where blaming him for some of her choices is concerned. That being said, Megan's smackdown on Patrick was awesome. It shouldn't have happened in a public place, but the way I see it, what Megan said is much more important than where she said it. Somebody had to call Patrick and Kevin on their bullshit where Kevin and Jon were concerned, especially Patrick's claim that he "cared about Jon." Bitch, please! If that were true, you wouldn't have slept with Kevin once, let alone had a full-fledged affair with him. However, regarding your claim that Kevin & Jon "had problems," you got that right because IMO the biggest problem in Kevin & Jon's relationship was Kevin. You and Kevin broke Jon's heart and Megan and her husband Gus, aka Jon's best friend, had to pick up the pieces while y'all go on your merry way acting like you've done nothing wrong? Bullshit! It's never occurred to you that Kevin's doing some of the same things with you that he's done to Jon and look how that turned out. You're giving up way too much way too fast for a guy who chances are isn't even remotely worth it and you're going to learn that the hard way way sooner than later. Karma will make a Happy Meal out of your ass in record time, I'm guessing and whatever "I told you sos" you'll get, you'll deserve, no matter where they come from, as far as I'm concerned.

[Irlandesa]

Irlandesa: From my perspective, re the potential business fallout re Patrick & Kevin, the public may not care about the more boring, business-related details of things, but one thing can change that: sex. A juicy sex scandal can get even the dullest business story more attention, for better and for worse. Case in point: while I'm no follower of the stock market, seeing The Wolf Of Wall Street, with all the sex, drugs and insider trading, was a fascinating portrait of the rise and fall of Jordan Belfort, aka the title role. 

 

The Wolf of Wall Street was intriguing because it was about sex, drugs, money and power. 

 

Under the perfect storm, yes, sex scandals blow up but it's rarely just about sex.  I'm not saying it's not a problem or can't hurt the company's productivity and morale, but this is not the kind of thing that will blow up until someone sues.

 

As for Patrick not getting a chance to defend Richie.  When he described him to his mother, he failed.  So I'm not sure he would have passed the test given a minute or two.  Even he didn't make that argument later on.

[Garnett7]

 

re: Jon blaming Patrick - Patrick didn't owe Jon anything, Kevin did.

 

How about basic human dignity and respect? Do you think Patrick owed Jon that? Just out of curiousity, if you are married now or were to get married or move in with a long time partner and begin a life with them, and they started cheating on you on the side with their employee, you don't think that person would "owe" you anything? Like maybe respecting your relationship? An explanation on why they trashed your life, maybe? You wouldn't blame them even a little for getting involved with someone they knew was in a serious relationship?

 

I think Jon's reaction to Patrick is human, real and perfectly understandable.

[DollEyes]

 

re; Jon blaming Patrick-Patrick didn't owe Jon anything, Kevin did.

 

    Disagree. Patrick owed Jon the dignity and respect to stay away from the man he loved. If Jon was a total asshole to Kevin, then Kevin's cheating on him would be understandable, but based on what I've seen so far, Jon is a kind and decent human being who doesn't deserve to be hurt. As far as I'm concerned, Jon has every right to hate both Patrick and Kevin.

 

 

What I saw was Patrick not being given the chance to defend Richie because Richie jumped on Agustin when he heard himself being insulted while eavesdropping. we didn't know that Patrick wouldn't have defended [Richie].

 

    I disagree. Patrick's problem in that scene wasn't the lack of time; it was a lack of spine. After Richie busted Agustin for accusing Patrick of "slumming" with him, instead of confronting Agustin and telling him to fuck off like he claimed he wanted to do, Patrick just stood there and didn't say a word on Richie's behalf and the time he did defend him before the fight was weak, at best. Richie's eavesdropping wasn't his best moment, but Patrick & Agustin's behavior was much worse.

 

 

I don't think [Patrick] lied, I think Patrick assumed that Richie would grow beyond being a barber, and he was wrong about that. But I don't think that was an instance of Patrick lying about Richie.

 

  Again disagreeing. I believe that Patrick lied about Richie not once, but twice-first, his sin of omission of not introducing Richie as his boyfriend to Kevin and Jon, then his telling them that Richie planned to open his own shop-which, if it wasn't a lie, was an assumption, meaning that Patrick took Richie for granted. As for Richie's ambitions, he's got that side business of flipping food trucks, which was revealed in "Looking For Truth." Like I've said before in another thread, just because Richie's ambitions are different from Patrick's, that doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

 

  Disagree. I think they both have incompatible issues. Richie walked away, Because of Richie's issues with insecurity and pride. Had Richie not walked away, I don't think Patrick and Kevin could have even started. Even without listing the ways, I find it difficult in any relationship that doesn't work to blame only one part of the equation. IMO that's usually not the case.

 

  Still disagreeing, for the most part. While I agree that it takes two to ruin a relationship, I also agree that usually one's more to blame than the other and in this case, it's Patrick.  As fucked-up as Patrick is, I believe he would've gone after Kevin whether Richie walked out on him or not. At least Richie's working on his issues and had sense enough not to rush things again, unlike Patrick and Kevin, who professed their so-called "love" for each other just days after Kevin and Jon broke up, proving to me that they don't have a clue what real love is. Contrary to Patrick's opinion, his getting involved with Kevin despite what little, if any, good judgment he has is Patrick's fault. When Patrick pulled his passive-aggressive bullshit implying that Richie's rejection of him made him get serious with Kevin, I rolled my eyes to the point of blindness. Patrick chose Kevin of his own free will, so whatever mistakes Patrick makes by getting involved with Kevin are on him, not Richie.

Edited March 19, 2015 by DollEyes

[romantic idiot]

I think Jon's reaction to Patrick is human, real and perfectly understandable.

 

We don't know Jon's reaction to Patrick, I was just responding to a poster who said Jon should hate Patrick. For all we know Jon agrees with me, though given his friends, probably not. 

 

To be honest, i don't go around expecting to be treated with basic human decency and kindness, not that naive, really. And no, if my long term partner, hypothetically, were to cheat on me with X, I'd blame my long term partner and not X. Honest. 

[Garnett7]

 

To be honest, i don't go around expecting to be treated with basic human decency and kindness, not that naive, really.

 

That actually makes me sad for you. Nothing "naive" in my book about treating people with human decency. Whether you'd blame X or not, they're still responsible for their actions. It's not Kevin's fault only that there was an affair. Patrick had to be ready, willing and available, which he was all too happy to be. He shares equal blame.

 

DollEyes, I'm not even sure Jon being a jerk woud make Kevin's cheating understandable. Kevin is a grown man, intelligent, in charge of his life. He's not married to Jon, no kids, not financially or physically dependent on him. If Jon was a douche to him then he should've man'ed up and left, not cheated. But nothing has shown Jon to be a jerk. Kevin just wasn't big boy enough to leave one man before deciding to screw another.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Garnett7

[romantic idiot]

That actually makes me sad for you. Nothing "naive" in my book about treating people with human decency. 

 

Oh, please don't feel sorry for me, :o)  but I didn't say I don't treat people with human decency, just that I know better than to expect it as default. if it makes you feel better, I get pleasantly surprised a lot more than most people. 

 

Anyway, I think I've managed to beat this to the ground, so will stop in this thread, at least. 

[DollEyes]

Garnett7:  ITA that Kevin's a grown man who's ultimately responsible for his own actions and that if he had problems with Jon, then he should've left him instead of cheating on him. My point was that from my perspective, if Jon had been an asshole to Kevin, I would've understood if Kevin cheated on him, but not agreed with it.

[Irlandesa]

I'm not condoning cheating but at the same time, if you are unhappy in your relationship I don't think you should stay out of obligation and just resign yourself to being unhappy for the rest of your life

Can we take a moment to talk about Patrick's mom?  Did anyone else think her situation was a bit of BS?  I agree that if you're in an unhappy relationship that doesn't look like it'll improve, you should leave.  But that isn't Dana's situation from what it sounds like.  Her reasons for thinking of leaving weren't that her marriage was something that was necessarily unhappy for her but that because she was able to help someone through a difficult time and it left her yearning for more. 

 

I get that feeling but helping someone with grief is an extraordinary situation.  Do you really throw away 40 years of commitment, which I'm sure has had its ups and downs, because of feelings developed during a period of heightened emotion?  How real or sustainable is that? 

 

I can see why Patrick felt like he had no recourse to support her but I'm not sure it made sense from Megan's POV. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clips:

 

[Primetimer]

Looking caps a wonderful season with a stellar finale.

Read the story

[Ffiferoo]

I flipped out when I saw Sean Maher guest starring and totally missed what happened in the first minute or two of the episode.  I love my Firefly alums!  

 

Not happy with Kevin here.  As soon as he started the conversation about wanting to be honest I was super upset for Patrick, who clearly did not get what Kevin was about to say until way after the audience did.  The shot at Patrick's mom was not cool, either.  It's fine to be in a non-monogamous relationship, but both people have to be aware of it *before* it stops being monogamous, Kevin!

 

The scene between Dom and Doris was really nice, and I loved Dom and Malik's conversation as well - I'm really looking forward to seeing more of Malik next season, he is super cool, and so sweet talking about Doris.

 

The only thing I didn't like was not enough Eddie.  Was that a Mariah Carey shirt he was wearing?  Daniel Franzese is the man.

 

I've been re-watching the first season of Queer as Folk, so I found myself comparing it with Looking as I watched tonight.  As much as I feel nostalgic love for QaF, Looking is so refreshing in comparison.  I'm sure part of it is that this is a current show and QaF doesn't hold up that great in a lot of ways, but when Patrick commented about the neighbor's party being full of only attractive white men, it really drove that feeling home.  

[romantic idiot]

I knew it. I knew it. Well, not 'knew it' in the sense of having the slightest idea, but I knew that Looking was going to disappoint me.

[CMH1981]

Wow, i'm conflicted here b/c i've been in Patrick's shoes...when you find out that the guy you are w/ has had indiscretions in the past as well as when you find out he has the hook-up apps on their phone, everything just starts crumbling down and you lose whatever trust you have.  I totally took Patrick's side in that he will always be wondering about Kevin...but then he leaves and decides to go crying to Richie basically, and tells him he is ready now basically.  Jeebus...  I really can't stand Kevin and Patrick, and by extension Richie.

 

So Kevin was eventually going to tell Patrick that he wanted the open relationship....eventually?!  Seriously?!  That's something he should have said while he was fucking around w/ Patrick and still w/ Jon.  Of course Patrick should have realized that Kevin might not be the monogamous type as well.  Patrick is stupid if he thinks he is so special that he was the only one who turned Kevin's head away from Jon.

[vixenbynight]

Patrick is stupid if he thinks he is so special that he was the only one who turned Kevin's head away from Jon.

Well, not stupid, but Patrick needed to believe that Kevin chose him, over being with Jon and possibly any man that may come into his presence in the future.

At this point, Patrick's not sure about Kevin at all. Not that he ever has, but he needed to think that way about him.

Why can't you stand Richie "by extension"?

I don't think that Patrick told him, that Kevin believes in non-monogamy. Or that Patrick wants to get back with him. I think that Patrick told Richie as little as possible, so that he could get through the haircut, without having to talk about Kevin.

Edited March 23, 2015 by vixenbynight