S03.E06: Off Brand

[Bannon]

22 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I am also skeptical as to whether Stacey really thought she heard gun shots or if she was making it up to play Mike, but I am unsure.  I think it was intentionally left a mystery by the writers.  

The main reasons I slightly lean towards thinking she imagined the shots are 1) She seems to be suffering from PTSD or something similar to it. This would make her susceptible to imagining such things.  2) I don't think she had any reason to assume Mike would be able to buy her and Kaylee a nice house on his parking lot attendant salary.  

I would also have no problem with a Gus/Mike/Nacho alliance and would very much welcome it.  

I can't remember; did not Mike retire from Philly's P.D. with a pension? That's a really good monthly income, especially in the context of Albuqeurque's much lower housing costs. It could easily cover the rent on a cheap apartment, and a payment on the kind of house Stacy and Kaylee moved to. Also, is not Stacy somewhat aware of the corruption Mike was involved in?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Bannon

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

So she flew in for a couple of days, went to Chuck's house and couldn't get in.  Big whoop.  I wouldn't characterize that as giving much of a shit about Chuck.  Sure, she didn't know about Chuck's mental illness before, but she knows about it now.  And when Jimmy wouldn't help her, she turned on him like a viper, telling him that Chuck was right about him.  That's when I said she could go fuck herself.    

She flew in (probably leaving a concert tour) to try to help her EX-husband.  That, in itself is rather extraordinary.  She might have been a bit hard on Jimmy, but I think she was shocked that this man who she had known to be decent and caring was being so calloused towards his mentally ill brother.  I don't think it is fair to expect her to fully understand what Jimmy has been through.

And for the record, Chuck was right about Jimmy.  He doctored the documents, he staged the billboard rescue, he stole from their parents, and he will become a menace to society as a lawyer.  

[teddysmom]

Quote

I think the telegraphing of Nacho and the pill may be in furtherance of a greater alliance between Nacho, Mike, and Gus. I'm ok with that.

Me too. 

Quote

, Badger, Gale, Bogdan and whoever else makes sense on the show! 

Do we think Gale was working for Gus prior to the super lab? Interesting. That actor is on Billions now, playing someone who is 180 degrees from Gale.  Every time he's on screen I think about him playing sweet mild mannered Gale. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by teddysmom

[TVFan17]

10 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Me too. 

Do we think Gale was working for Gus prior to the super lab? Interesting. That actor is on Billions now, playing someone who is 180 degrees from Gale.  Every time he's on screen I think about him playing sweet mild mannered Gale. 

I always think of Gale and his coffee!  Whenever I make a pot of terrible coffee (which is most of the time), I think about how I need a Gale to show me how to create the perfect brew.

I don't know exactly when Gale and Gus met, or when Gus first became aware of Gale.  It might not be time for a Gale appearance yet, but if this show lasts another couple of seasons -- maybe even with a time jump of a year or so -- I would not be shocked to see him.  I think that when BCS first started, a lot of viewers were skeptical about a lot of BB characters returning because it didn't seem like it would make sense.  But we can see that, given the way this show unfolds, with occasional flashbacks and flash forwards, and people making connections with other people, there are all kinds of ways for BB characters to make cameo appearances in a logical, cohesive, sensible manner.

Edited May 16, 2017 by TVFan17

[ShadowFacts]

31 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I am also skeptical as to whether Stacey really thought she heard gun shots or if she was making it up to play Mike, but I am unsure.  I think it was intentionally left a mystery by the writers.  

The main reasons I slightly lean towards thinking she imagined the shots are 1) She seems to be suffering from PTSD or something similar to it. This would make her susceptible to imagining such things.  2) I don't think she had any reason to assume Mike would be able to buy her and Kaylee a nice house on his parking lot attendant salary.  

I would also have no problem with a Gus/Mike/Nacho alliance and would very much welcome it.  

The acting and writing make Stacey a little ambiguous.  I tend to feel like she is manipulating Mike, but a case can be made that she is just needy.  I think the fact that she went to New Mexico not knowing that Mike would follow, let alone start offering lifestyle upgrades, makes it possible she isn't just using him as a bank.  But in her position, I personally would accept babysitting and household repair-type help, but not bunches of monetary help. 

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, TVFan17 said:

I always think of Gale and his coffee!  Whenever I make a pot of terrible coffee (which is most of the time), I think about how I need a Gale to show me how to create the perfect brew.

I don't know exactly when Gale and Gus met, or when Gus first became aware of Gale.  It might not be time for a Gale appearance yet, but if this show lasts another couple of seasons -- maybe even with a time jump of a year or so -- I would not be shocked to see him.  I think that when BCS first started, a lot of viewers were skeptical about a lot of BB characters returning because it didn't seem like it would make sense.  But we can see that, given the way this show unfolds, with occasional flashbacks and flash forwards, and people making connections with other people, there are all kinds of ways for BB characters to make cameo appearances in a logical, cohesive, sensible way.

Gale and Gus probably met in the late 1990s when Gale was attending UNM on the Max Arciniega Chemistry Scholarship. that Gus had endowed.  In "Hermanos" when the DEA is questioning Fring he said that the scholarship was how he met Gale and it was mentioned that Gale graduated in 1999.  Gus then lies and claims to have not seen Gale in years, prior to him showing up at LPH about 3 weeks before his death, inviting him to dinner and trying to pitch some sort of business opportunity to him.  

[benteen]

3 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

Tara's not a crackpot. She just thinks Better Call Saul could be spending its time more wisely.

View the full article

You see, I think this argument would have been much better to have made after the self-indulgent and drawn out first two episodes of the season.  We really needed to see 20 minutes of Mike taking apart his car looking for a tracker and then reverse-engineering it?  It was slow and predictable television.  Tonight's episode wasn't as good as the last three but still a step-up from the first two weeks this season.

Edited May 16, 2017 by benteen

[Bannon]

13 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

The acting and writing make Stacey a little ambiguous.  I tend to feel like she is manipulating Mike, but a case can be made that she is just needy.  I think the fact that she went to New Mexico not knowing that Mike would follow, let alone start offering lifestyle upgrades, makes it possible she isn't just using him as a bank.  But in her position, I personally would accept babysitting and household repair-type help, but not bunches of monetary help. 

I think she left Philly to get away from all things connected to her murdered husband, but when dad in law followed, with a desire to be involved in Kaylee's life, Stacy decided that the price of Mike's admission was going to be substantial financial contribution, even if she wasn't going to demand it overtly.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, benteen said:

You see, I think this argument would have been much better to have made after the self-indulgent and drawn out first two episodes of the season.

I would agree on episode 301 but not 302.  I thought they teased the audience just a bit too much in 301 and needed to reveal at least a little more. 

[Dev F]

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Gale and Gus probably met in the late 1990s when Gale was attending UNM on the Max Arciniega Chemistry Scholarship. that Gus had endowed.  In "Hermanos" when the DEA is questioning Fring he said that the scholarship was how he met Gale and it was mentioned that Gale graduated in 1999.  Gus then lies and claims to have not seen Gale in years, prior to him showing up at LPH about 3 weeks before his death, inviting him to dinner and trying to pitch some sort of business opportunity to him.  

It's possible that they knew each other, but it's also possible that Gus just kept tabs on the scholarship winners over the years until he figured it was time to offer one a job. I think it's likely that Gale doesn't actually have a job with Gus yet, since in the flashback scene where he unpacks the superlab early in the Breaking Bad timeline, he seems to be a new employee ("I'm not trying to talk myself out of a job," he says) who hasn't yet started manufacturing for Gus at all ("If that is our competition, we have our work cut out for us").

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, Dev F said:

It's possible that they knew each other, but it's also possible that Gus just kept tabs on the scholarship winners over the years until he figured it was time to offer one a job. I think it's likely that Gale doesn't actually have a job with Gus yet, since in the flashback scene where he unpacks the superlab early in the Breaking Bad timeline, he seems to be a new employee ("I'm not trying to talk myself out of a job," he says) who hasn't yet started manufacturing for Gus at all ("If that is our competition, we have our work cut out for us").

It is possible Gus was lying about when he met Gale, as well as about what contact he had had with him, but I tend to believe they knew each other when Gale was at UNM.  When they reconnected is very uncertain.  Gus is already in the early stages of building the super lab, which apparently took him roughly 4 years.  It is possible Gale gets involved very soon, or it could be only months before the super lab is completed circa 2007.  

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, benteen said:

You see, I think this argument would have been much better to have made after the self-indulgent and drawn out first two episodes of the season.

Yeah, I don't think anything's been self indulgent, or too drawn out. I appreciate that this show doesn't write anything dumb, in order to tell the story more quickly.  I agree more has happened since the 1st two episodes, but that's the the world works; things don't happen at a constant pace. To me, the important thing is to have characters stay in character, to better reveal that character. 

To significant degree, of course, these are matters of taste, but I really do think that Tara is missing something when she says, for instance, that actually showing how Gus hugely expands his conflict with the cartel, instead of it just happening out of the blue, is a writing error, because BB viewers alaready know that the conflict with the cartel hugely expands when Gus begins large scale production of his own meth.

[benteen]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

 

To significant degree, of course, these are matters of taste, but I really do think that Tara is missing something when she says, for instance, that actually showing how Gus hugely expands his conflict with the cartel, instead of it just happening out of the blue, is a writing error, because BB viewers alaready know that the conflict with the cartel hugely expands when Gus begins large scale production of his own meth.

That's fair.  Just showing it might be a case of them relying too much on the BB connection instead of showing the inner workings of the decision.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Yeah, I don't think anything's been self indulgent, or too drawn out. I appreciate that this show doesn't write anything dumb, in order to tell the story more quickly.  I agree more has happened since the 1st two episodes, but that's the the world works; things don't happen at a constant pace. To me, the important thing is to have characters stay in character, to better reveal that character. 

To significant degree, of course, these are matters of taste, but I really do think that Tara is missing something when she says, for instance, that actually showing how Gus hugely expands his conflict with the cartel, instead of it just happening out of the blue, is a writing error, because BB viewers alaready know that the conflict with the cartel hugely expands when Gus begins large scale production of his own meth.

I thought episode 1 was unacceptably drawn out, but I have been fine with the pacing of 302 - 306.

I don't think the cause of the conflict between Gus and the cartel was totally clear in BB.  I don't believe there is any indication of a conflict, at least on the cartel's side, until episode 404 when the LPH truck Mike is riding in is attacked by the cartel.  

To me it is not clear whether the conflict began because:

a) Gus started producing his own meth in the super lab

b) Gus protected Walter White from the Cousins. This seems unlikely because I would think Eladio would simply overrule Fring and give the Cousins permission to kill Walter.

c) The cartel figured out that Gus had setup the Cousins by giving them permission to kill Hank, but then warning Hank,, in order to bring blowback against the cartel from the DEA and Federales, which would temporarily prevent them from shipping to the US, allowing Gus to corner the market.  

d) They saw how much money Gus was making and wanted to take over and Gus refused. 

I lean toward C.  

[DrSpaceman73]

3 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

Tara's not a crackpot. She just thinks Better Call Saul could be spending its time more wisely.

View the full article

I completely disagree and have felt this way about the show from the beginning. 

I can't believe they have drug out the CHuck-Jimmy thing for 3 seasons now.  I would much rather the show focus on the other characters from Breaking Bad if they are doing a prequel in this fashion.  I find that much more interesting than two brothers bickering over like they have over the past 3 season like 10 year olds. 

I am dying to know how he ends up in a Wheelchair and I don't think its clear from what we have seen how that happens, not sure even about that reference. 

Or even better I would rather we just get to Saul Goodman, not being doing as much of a prequel and introduce new characters that have nothing to do with the prior show but that occur in the same time frame as Breaking Bad, or thereabouts.  That is what I was expecting, at least by the 3rd season, of this show. 

And those scenes with Chuck gripping a battery and struggling to a pay phone seemed like something out of comic book lore. 

[SlipperyPete]

I kind of wish that I never saw Breaking Bad. It's the only thing that keeps me from finding this show as compelling as I should. I feel like I'm just watching for the excellent performances and nothing story related at this point. Willing to bet that the rest of the series will span the 12 month period of Jimmy's suspension from practicing law.

I got to thinking, though. We know that Kim has a major weak spot for Jimmy. We also know that the crap Jimmy will put Kim through before the timeline gets to Breaking Bad is inevitable. But what if, despite all of it, Kim only severs ties with Jimmy on a business level and stays in a relationship with him throughout the entire time Jimmy was working for Walt on BB? Then at the end of Breaking Bad, Jimmy/Saul flees town with his new identity forcing him to leave Kim behind, leaving her completely shocked at what he had been up to behind her back. Legally, Kim will end up in the clear but she'll still end up emotionally devastated in the end. It would run parallel with the damage Walt did to his family while leaving them legally in the clear as well. We never see a single scene of Saul's private life on BB so I think it's possible.

Sooo... Am I a total crackpot? Has anyone else had similar theories? I don't post here enough to know. But I can totally see this being the kind of thing a room full of writers would come up with. Plus if they have no aces up their sleeves to surprise the people who know Breaking Bad like the backs of their hands, then what's the point in this show at all?

Edited May 16, 2017 by SlipperyPete

[Eulipian 5k]

3 hours ago, Bannon said:

I was thinking about this as well. It's one of the pleasures of having seen BB before this show. It really is amazing to see these characters and say, "He's dead... Him too... Dead... Dead...."

LOL. I'm glad others recognized Crazy 8 & the box cutter guy. Can't wait to see Spooge & Skank as pre-meth pillars of the ABQ community.

[smorbie]

6 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Even got her a bubbler and call her "girl".  I was sure "Wanda" was flushed already.

But that's not Jimmy.  For all his bad qualities, he is somewhat of a caretaker in his way.  Once it was pointed out to him that she was a girl, a living creature, I knew he wouldn't discard her.

[Jextella]

Stacey and Lydia look like they are related.  I LOVED Lydia's character in BB and am glad she's back!

I'm rewatching from the beginning to get timelines down....I'm still a bit lost on some of it.  Anyone know how Nacho is related to Hector?  

Where the drug portion of the show is concerned, as I understand it....we have Camp 1: Nacho and Hector and Tuco.  And now Camp 2: Gus and Lydia.

And, both sides are just getting started as local kingpins.  Hector is establishing his own operation as is Gus.  

Is this correct? 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Jextella

[Bannon]

45 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I thought episode 1 was unacceptably drawn out, but I have been fine with the pacing of 302 - 306.

I don't think the cause of the conflict between Gus and the cartel was totally clear in BB.  I don't believe there is any indication of a conflict, at least on the cartel's side, until episode 404 when the LPH truck Mike is riding in is attacked by the cartel.  

To me it is not clear whether the conflict began because:

a) Gus started producing his own meth in the super lab

b) Gus protected Walter White from the Cousins. This seems unlikely because I would think Eladio would simply overrule Fring and give the Cousins permission to kill Walter.

c) The cartel figured out that Gus had setup the Cousins by giving them permission to kill Hank, but then warning Hank,, in order to bring blowback against the cartel from the DEA and Federales, which would temporarily prevent them from shipping to the US, allowing Gus to corner the market.  

d) They saw how much money Gus was making and wanted to take over and Gus refused. 

I lean toward C.  

We know Gus had been delivering huge sums of money to Don Eladio, from selling Don Eladio's product. We know that Gus' partner was murdered, years ago, in response to the suggestion that Gus and his partner oversee large scale meth manufacturing. I'd say setting up large scale competiton is the most likely cause of conflict.

[smorbie]

6 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

While I agree that Jimmy would be taking a big risk by going to Chuck's house, I thought Rebecca's behavior was admirable.

If Jimmy had explained to her that he would like to help, but was afraid of another trap or misunderstanding that would get him disbarred and incarcerated, that would be one thing.  

But, it was clear that Jimmy no longer gave a crap about Chuck, and that was probably shocking to her, as she had seen him as a man with a good heart.

Without that good heart that makes Jimmy care about people, when maybe he shouldn't  (like Chuck and the Kettlemans) he may be nothing more than a shady, criminal lawyer.  I thought it was sad that Jimmy didn't even want to help, as it show he is not our Jimmy anymore.  

Jimmy seems to have lost himself in his resentment towards Chuck, just as Chuck lost himself through his resentment towards Jimmy.

I put it down to someone who had finally learned, after multiple burns and skin grafts, how to keep his hands out of the fire.  Chuck was never going to be what Jimmy always thought him to be, and Jimmy is never going to be the brother Chuck wants.  It's best if they wash their hands and walk away.  In fact, I'm kind of surprised the judge didn't order that.

Edited May 16, 2017 by smorbie

[Soobs]

6 hours ago, JFParnell said:

Anywho .. glad things are picking up. Will speak only for myself and say that MAN, this show really tested my patience at multiple points leading to now, primarily because I found Chuck to be such a drag :)

Me too! I cannot take more of Chuck. Enough! Let's move on (brisk clap)!

I really liked the final scene where he plays the tape of the first Saul Goodman ad.

Kim: He has a lot energy

Jimmy: It's just a name

Kim: Hmmm

The look on her face said it all.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

We know Gus had been delivering huge sums of money to Don Eladio, from selling Don Eladio's product. We know that Gus' partner was murdered, years ago, in response to the suggestion that Gus and his partner oversee large scale meth manufacturing. I'd say setting up large scale competiton is the most likely cause of conflict.

I took the motive for Max being murdered to be that Gus had disrespected Eladio and the cartel by giving his men free meth in order to provoke a meeting with Eladio, where they could pitch him the idea of mass producing, high quality meth.  Eladio liked the idea, and embraced it, but he had to put Gus in his place (or spank him, as he called it in "Salud").  

[smorbie]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't blame Rebecca for not being Chuck's care-giver, but she just finished spending the day hearing about Jimmy's devoted care over the past year, and how it was repaid by Chuck setting him up to be disbarred.  Whether he is angry or not, Jimmy would be a fool to walk back into what could be another trap.  Rebecca's holier than thou attitude to Jimmy  was obnoxious in that scene.  Cell-phone abusing snob.

I can finally see how she and Chuck ended up together.

[millennium]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Gale and Jesse were my two favorite characters,  their final scene together really upset me, and as much as I would love to see Gale making coffee and singing obscure show tunes  again, I doubt if the two time lines are close enough to bring him in.  Maybe!

At this point in time, Gale may be recording a karaoke version of Peter Schilling's "Major Tom."

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Is Better Call Saul's Fan Service Making Its Short Season Too Long?

Tara's not a crackpot. She just thinks Better Call Saul could be spending its time more wisely.

[smorbie]

6 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

He succeeded in getting Jimmy a one-year suspension.  Time to cut ties.  What could Jimmy have done anyway without getting himself in trouble?  He just gets the bar's decision on suspension and goes over to his brother's house who he has the feud with and starts banging on the door.  Not going to end well.  Chuck won't let Rebecca in, he's not going to let Jimmy in.  As for Jimmy being unwilling to even try to help, is he supposed to think OK, now we're even, let's start over?  You don't have to be hardhearted to know when to cut your losses. 

And how was Jimmy not to know that Rebecca was a pawn in yet another of Chuck's schemes to get him in trouble.  For all Jimmy knew Chuck could have been sitting there rubbing his little hands together waiting for Jimmy to come break down or even beat on the door out of concern for him, and then Howard would have jumped out and called the cops.

[axlmadonna]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Remember, she doesn't know half of what we know about Mike.  She probably assumes he does nothing but work at the parking lot, go home, watch old movies, listen to his old radio, drink Pabst Blue Ribbon, and eat pistachios and pimento cheese sandwiches and occasionally visit Kaylee.  She has no idea that he spends his spare time doing security for amateur drug dealers, and robbing, framing and attempting to kill major drug dealers, etc.  

Does she, though? Even with his pension, and his parking attendant job, it would be difficult (if not impossible) for him to afford the five-figure down payment for that nice house in the nice neighborhood, let alone make payments on that house plus his own every month. And, given that she knows he was a crooked cop, surely she must at least suspect that he's getting extra income from somewhere... possibly somewhere illegal.

 

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I am also skeptical as to whether Stacey really thought she heard gun shots or if she was making it up to play Mike, but I am unsure.  I think it was intentionally left a mystery by the writers.  

The main reasons I slightly lean towards thinking she imagined the shots are 1) She seems to be suffering from PTSD or something similar to it. This would make her susceptible to imagining such things.  2) I don't think she had any reason to assume Mike would be able to buy her and Kaylee a nice house on his parking lot attendant salary.  

I would also have no problem with a Gus/Mike/Nacho alliance and would very much welcome it.  

And yet, she did not question for one second where he got the money to do exactly that. Which makes me highly suspicious of her motives in telling him that she "heard gunshots" that clearly didn't happen, and was in fear for their safety.

 

1 hour ago, TVFan17 said:

I don't know exactly when Gale and Gus met, or when Gus first became aware of Gale.  It might not be time for a Gale appearance yet, but if this show lasts another couple of seasons -- maybe even with a time jump of a year or so -- I would not be shocked to see him.  I think that when BCS first started, a lot of viewers were skeptical about a lot of BB characters returning because it didn't seem like it would make sense.  But we can see that, given the way this show unfolds, with occasional flashbacks and flash forwards, and people making connections with other people, there are all kinds of ways for BB characters to make cameo appearances in a logical, cohesive, sensible manner.

I was going to mention the chemistry scholarship at UNM, but Bryce Lynch beat me to it. We know that Gale was at least on Gus' radar since 1999, when he graduated with a degree in chemistry. I'll bet that Gus even established that scholarship in order to locate talented chemists to recruit when the time was right to go into solo practice, as it were.

[smorbie]

6 hours ago, JFParnell said:

Crazy 8 wasn't the police snitch, right? Or was he? Or was it the other dude who died in the RV? I remember C8 him meeting his demise in Jesse's basement, but can't recall if he was the snitch Hank mentions later.

He was, indeed, the police informant.

[ShadowFacts]

23 minutes ago, Jextella said:

Stacey and Lydia look like they are related.  I LOVED Lydia's character in BB and am glad she's back!

I'm rewatching from the beginning to get timelines down....I'm still a bit lost on some of it.  Anyone know how Nacho is related to Hector?  

Where the drug portion of the show is concerned, as I understand it....we have Camp 1: Nacho and Hector and Tuco.  And now Camp 2: Gus and Lydia.

And, both sides are just getting started as local kingpins.  Hector is establishing his own operation as is Gus.  

Is this correct? 

I don't think Nacho is related to Hector, that we've been told.  He just works for him.  According to what Mike said, Nacho also does his own business on the side.  And we know that he wanted Tuco dead before Tuco decided to kill him for no reason.  He's living dangerously (aren't they all). 

[millennium]

3 minutes ago, Soobs said:

Me too! I cannot take more of Chuck. Enough! Let's move on (brisk clap)!

I really liked the final scene where he plays the tape of the first Saul Goodman ad.

Kim: He has a lot energy

Jimmy: It's just a name

Kim: Hmmm

The look on her face said it all.

The sad part is, since Kim does not exist in Breaking Bad, you have to suspect it does not end well for her and Jimmy.

 

24 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

 

I can't believe they have drug out the CHuck-Jimmy thing for 3 seasons now.  I would much rather the show focus on the other characters from Breaking Bad if they are doing a prequel in this fashion.  I find that much more interesting than two brothers bickering over like they have over the past 3 season like 10 year olds. 

 

I guess we all have our personal expectations.   I haven't derived much entertainment or satisfaction from the Chuck situation either.   Sometimes it feels like Vince Gilligan lost a bet to Michael McKean.

Although it finally feels the show is picking up steam, I am most dissatisfied by the staunch refusal to provide further detail about the fallout after Saul fled Alberquerque, either by Cinnabon Saul reading a newspaper or watching a TV news report, etc.   We who have watched Breaking the audience know the gravity of the situation, but those who have not are without a clue.   They don't know why this guy Saul is living in quiet desperation in Omaha -- or that he deserves whatever hell he has made for himself (and IMHO, he does -- he's an evil man).   I think that in this respect the show relies too much on our foreknowledge.

[Jextella]

I know some aren't interested in Chuck, but man.  I find his relationship with Jimmy fascinating.  I'm also enjoying the peripheral relationships of Kim, Howard, and now Chuck's wife.  

This show is not the same as BB and clearly making and selling meth comes with a lot more action than a soured relationship between brothers but I find the Jimmy/Chuck storyline very relatable and interesting.  In BB, the action carried the human side of the story along I think.  That same kind of action hasn't happened yet in BCS and I don't think it needed to thus far.  It does feel slower, but we are in a prequel and learning about how the characters become who they are in BB.  There is more character development than plain old action as a result.

I do, however, think we get the gist of the Jimmy vs. Chuck story at this point and I'd like to see things turned up a notch.  There could be so much more story to tell, e.g. Jimmy and Chuck's home life as kids, the demise of Chuck's marriage, and some depth (be it good or bad) to Howard, Jimmy and Kim's relationship.

It will take some time to build up the drug war drama and as they go about doing that, I'd very much like to see more of the human stuff.

I saw an interview in which the actor who plays Nacho talks about this season exposing the more human qualities of some of the characters - including Nacho.  I'm down with that.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Jextella

[Bannon]

16 minutes ago, axlmadonna said:

Does she, though? Even with his pension, and his parking attendant job, it would be difficult (if not impossible) for him to afford the five-figure down payment for that nice house in the nice neighborhood, let alone make payments on that house plus his own every month. And, given that she knows he was a crooked cop, surely she must at least suspect that he's getting extra income from somewhere... possibly somewhere illegal.

 

And yet, she did not question for one second where he got the money to do exactly that. Which makes me highly suspicious of her motives in telling him that she "heard gunshots" that clearly didn't happen, and was in fear for their safety.

 

I was going to mention the chemistry scholarship at UNM, but Bryce Lynch beat me to it. We know that Gale was at least on Gus' radar since 1999, when he graduated with a degree in chemistry. I'll bet that Gus even established that scholarship in order to locate talented chemists to recruit when the time was right to go into solo practice, as it were.

Philly police officers from Mike's era retired with a monthly pension equal to 100% of the police officer's final salary. The price of housing in Albququerque is pretty low, easily low enough to cover the rent on a cheap apartment and the payment on the house that Stacy moved to, on that salary in 2002-2003. The downpayment on that house, if it was purchased, and not rented, might be as low as 4 or 5 thousand dollars.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Bannon

[smorbie]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

'm skeptical that anybody interprets newspapers thumping for gunshots, even in their sleep, absent some willful self-deception, but maybe I'm too cynical.

I seem to recall her taking Mike outside to show him "bullet holes" in the walls, too.

[axlmadonna]

6 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Philly police officers from Mike's era retired with a monthly pension equal to 100% of the police officer's final salary. The price of housing in Albququerque is pretty low, easily low enough to cover the rent on a cheap apartment and the payment on the house that Stacy moved to, on that salary in 2002-2003. The downpayment on that house, if it was purchased, and not rented, might be as low as 4 or 5 thousand dollars.

Then why did Mike need to take jobs from the vet in order to get the money for the house? He was even willing to consider jobs that he really didn't want to do.

[smorbie]

I think he bought the house outright.

[Bryce Lynch]

14 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't think Nacho is related to Hector, that we've been told.  He just works for him.  According to what Mike said, Nacho also does his own business on the side.  And we know that he wanted Tuco dead before Tuco decided to kill him for no reason.  He's living dangerously (aren't they all). 

When did Tuco decide to kill Nacho?  I don't recall this on BCS or BB.

[teddysmom]

Quote

That's fair.  Just showing it might be a case of them relying too much on the BB connection instead of showing the inner workings of the decision.

We may get the inner workings of the decision later.  This season is setting up the Gus Fring network.

And remember, when Tuco was gone, Walt & Jesse thought they'd lost their distributor, til Saul connected them with Gus (if I remember correctly). 

Quote

When did Tuco decide to kill Nacho? 

I do not recall it being mentioned in BB that Tuco killed Nacho, either. 

[scenario]

6 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

He succeeded in getting Jimmy a one-year suspension.  Time to cut ties.  What could Jimmy have done anyway without getting himself in trouble?  He just gets the bar's decision on suspension and goes over to his brother's house who he has the feud with and starts banging on the door.  Not going to end well.  Chuck won't let Rebecca in, he's not going to let Jimmy in.  As for Jimmy being unwilling to even try to help, is he supposed to think OK, now we're even, let's start over?  You don't have to be hardhearted to know when to cut your losses. 

I'm going to give Rebecca some slack here. She's reacting more to how cold Jimmy was. He said that I have no brother. If he has said something like, It really wouldn't be a good idea to go over to Chucks, she probably would have understood it. Jimmy came across as very, very cold. If you haven't lived the stuff in between, it makes Jimmy look bad. I was shocked at how cold Jimmy was. I understood it but it seemed out of character. 

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I know some aren't interested in Chuck, but man.  I find his relationship with Jimmy fascinating.  I'm also enjoying the peripheral relationships of Kim, Howard, and now Chuck's wife.  

This show is not the same as BB and clearly making and selling meth comes with a lot more action than a soured relationship between brothers but I find the Jimmy/Chuck storyline very relatable and interesting.  In BB, the action carried the human side of the story along I think.  That same kind of action hasn't happened yet in BCS and I don't think it needed to be thus far.  It does feel slower, but we are in a prequel and learning about how the characters become who they are in BB.  There is more character development than plain old action as a result.

I think we get the gist of the Jimmy vs. Chuck story at this point and I'd like to see things turned up a notch.  There could be so much more story to tell, e.g. Jimmy and Chuck's home life as kids, the demise of Chuck's marriage, and some depth (be it good or bad) to Howard.

It will take some time to build up the drug war drama and as they go about doing that, I'd very much like to see more of the human stuff.

I saw an interview in which the actor who plays Nacho talks about this season exposing the more human qualities of some of the characters - including Nacho.  I'm down with that.

Yeah, it's funny how we all like different things. I think the relationships between people is what makes any story interesting, and the action stuff needs to serve that. I loved Breaking Bad, but some of the things I liked least were some action elements; the magnet at the police station was just kind of dumb to me, and, especially, the simulteaneous mass murder of potential witnesses at several prisons had me severely rolling my eyes. The truth of the relationships really demanded that Jesse be murdered pretty early on, especially when he was passing out in drug houses, as Walt was demanding that he be brought back, but I gave the writers some slack, because Jesse was so popular with the audience. Anyways, I've thought the Chuck and Jimmy interplay has been great, because that interplay is the critical element in Jimmy becoming the much more sinister Saul.     

7 minutes ago, axlmadonna said:

Then why did Mike need to take jobs from the vet in order to get the money for the house? He was even willing to consider jobs that he really didn't want to do.

I think he wants to set Kaylee up for life, likely starting with 100-200k for a college degree or two.

[ShadowFacts]

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

When did Tuco decide to kill Nacho?  I don't recall this on BCS or BB.

I guess I phrased it inelegantly.  Nacho was telling Mike that Tuco killed a guy who he actually liked, right in front of him, and he didn't want that to happen to him, hence he wanted to get Tuco before Tuco got him.  Mike convinced him getting Tuco put away in the slammer was a better idea.  That was from last year, I think, unless I am mixed up, which happens.

[Bannon]

9 minutes ago, smorbie said:

I think he bought the house outright.

He may have. I don't think it was made clear. If he wanted to, however, he could easily cover a mortgage payment.

[axlmadonna]

9 minutes ago, Bannon said:

 I think he wants to set Kaylee up for life, likely starting with 100-200k for a college degree or two.

We know he does want to do that, since he attempted to do exactly that several times during the run of BB. However...

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

He may have [bought the house outright]. I don't think it was made clear. If he wanted to, however, he could easily cover a mortgage payment.

This is what we're debating presently. Not his trying to save up money for Kaylee's future, but that he had to take on extra-shady jobs from the vet in order to cover that down payment; and, presumably, future payments (be they mortgage or rent). Plus, he surely pays for his own house as well, and his living expenses. Even if we assume that he was making decent 1990's era money when he retired, that income (in addition to his most likely minimum wage, part-time parking attendant job) would not be enough for all of the above. And it clearly wasn't, since Mike took the vet jobs in order to cover the cost of the house for Stacey and Kaylee. So, why would Stacey assume that Mike had that kind of money on such short notice? The fact that she never once even asked him about it is what gives me pause as to her motivations.

[Saulter Whiteman]

Did anybody catch how they opened up the episode on the shot of Hector pouring coffee right above the cup like that? This was a definite throwback to

Spoiler

That very same shot when Lydia put the poisonous Stevia in her coffee. I noticed this immediately and instantly realized what they did there when seeing Lydia. Awesome cinematography. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Saulter Whiteman

[Auntie Anxiety]

I don't think Stacy cares how Mike is making money as long as she gets to use it.

[Eulipian 5k]

19 minutes ago, scenario said:

I'm going to give Rebecca some slack here. She's reacting more to how cold Jimmy was. He said that I have no brother. If he has said something like, It really wouldn't be a good idea to go over to Chucks, she probably would have understood it. Jimmy came across as very, very cold. If you haven't lived the stuff in between, it makes Jimmy look bad. I was shocked at how cold Jimmy was. I understood it but it seemed out of character. 

I f you look at Kim's expression throughout this scene I believe she agrees with you, Scenario. But she knows where this is based. Rebecca was only thinking of getting into see Chuck, rather than putting herself in Jimmy's shoes. She is a lot like Chuck, (driven, successful, self absorbed) and I think their split was more a case of Irreconcilable Similarities.

[ghoulina]

51 minutes ago, axlmadonna said:

Does she, though? Even with his pension, and his parking attendant job, it would be difficult (if not impossible) for him to afford the five-figure down payment for that nice house in the nice neighborhood, let alone make payments on that house plus his own every month. And, given that she knows he was a crooked cop, surely she must at least suspect that he's getting extra income from somewhere... possibly somewhere illegal.

Yup. I think she knows and she is fine with whatever it gets her. I don't think Stacy set out to start using Mike, but when he showed up in ABQ and she got the truth about Matty, I think she made a decision (maybe not fully consciously) to bilk him for all she can. I don't trust her at all. 

 

44 minutes ago, millennium said:

The sad part is, since Kim does not exist in Breaking Bad, you have to suspect it does not end well for her and Jimmy.

Not necessarily. We don't see any of Saul's personal life in BB. But just based on how things are going NOW, I'd say their relationship ain't long for the world. 

 

42 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Philly police officers from Mike's era retired with a monthly pension equal to 100% of the police officer's final salary.

Are we sure Mike is retired, though? Was he already retired when Matty was killed? If not, I believe he left very quickly after the murder, and I'm not sure that he actually "retired", rather than quit. In order to retire, don't you have to serve a certain amount of time? It would be pretty coincidental if he happened to be up for retirement right at the time he needed to flee the state because he murdered two cops. I could be wrong, though. 

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, axlmadonna said:

We know he does want to do that, since he attempted to do exactly that several times during the run of BB. However...

This is what we're debating presently. Not his trying to save up money for Kaylee's future, but that he had to take on extra-shady jobs from the vet in order to cover that down payment; and, presumably, future payments (be they mortgage or rent). Plus, he surely pays for his own house as well, and his living expenses. Even if we assume that he was making decent 1990's era money when he retired, that income (in addition to his most likely minimum wage, part-time parking attendant job) would not be enough for all of the above. And it clearly wasn't, since Mike took the vet jobs in order to cover the cost of the house for Stacey and Kaylee. So, why would Stacey assume that Mike had that kind of money on such short notice? The fact that she never once even asked him about it is what gives me pause as to her motivations.

That apartment in Albuqueruque in 2002 rented for about 500 a month, tops. The house payment in 2002 would have been about a 1000 a month, with a  3% downpayment, assuming Mike has decent credit.   Mike easily could have retired with a 65k-75k a year salary, if we assume he rose through the ranks somewhat. 1500 a month to cover the apartment and house payment is really no big deal.

3 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Yup. I think she knows and she is fine with whatever it gets her. I don't think Stacy set out to start using Mike, but when he showed up in ABQ and she got the truth about Matty, I think she made a decision (maybe not fully consciously) to bilk him for all she can. I don't trust her at all. 

 

Not necessarily. We don't see any of Saul's personal life in BB. But just based on how things are going NOW, I'd say their relationship ain't long for the world. 

 

Are we sure Mike is retired, though? Was he already retired when Matty was killed? If not, I believe he left very quickly after the murder, and I'm not sure that he actually "retired", rather than quit. In order to retire, don't you have to serve a certain amount of time? It would be pretty coincidental if he happened to be up for retirement right at the time he needed to flee the state because he murdered two cops. I could be wrong, though. 

Philly police officers in his era were eligible for retirement after 20 years service.

[nodorothyparker]

I think it was in Saul's introductory episode on BB where we saw Saul ask a much grumpier Francesca to come home with him on their way out the door for the night.  Granted that things can always change since Kim wouldn't have even been conceived of yet when that scene was written, but those aren't the actions of someone who still has a Kim in his life.

Mike obviously had and still does have a ton of guilt about his son's death.  He's also been pretty explicit in wanting to help take care of Kaylee to help assuage that guilt.  I could see how Stacy as a lonely grieving widow may have started out deciding to let him and over time it became an expectation.  It may not have even been a deliberate thing.  She may not be thinking about where his money comes from at all.  Or she may also think that since he was willing to get dirty when he was a cop to the point of getting Matty killed that he would have no compunction about dabbling in less than above board activities now to help pay the bills.  So much of what we have been shown could be read either way and I don't feel like I've gotten enough concrete information to go on to really know for sure.

[LoneHaranguer]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

I agree more has happened since the 1st two episodes, but that's the the world works; things don't happen at a constant pace.

The writers are free to have each episode cover as much or as little time as they want, not only overall, but in what is going on in independent arcs. If something is going noticeably slow or quick it's because the writers want to get to a particular point at the right time (e.g. Chuck's breakdown at the end of last episode). BB had episodes that were mostly filler until you got to the last few minutes, which contained the next compelling development that'd have you tuning in next time.