S03.E05: Chicanery

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, knaankos said:

I didn't think the cell phone battery trick was all that good. Last episode they hinted at Kim having something planned with the tape but instead it was just a Huell playground trick? 

I thought it was rather obvious last week that they planned to use the tape as foundation to bring up Chuck's insanity.  I think it would have been clownish, unrealistic and beneath this show for them to pull the "old switcheroo" with the tape.

Huell planting the battery on Chuck was just the right touch of chicanery, IMO.

[ShadowFacts]

5 hours ago, acid burn said:

I think he's covered by the PPD if he keeps his nose clean for a year. The disbarment hearing was about the larger crime of Jimmy switching the numbers on Chuck's Mesa Verde paperwork.

The hearing was actually about what Jimmy admitted to in the PPD confession, which did not include the Mesa Verde document alteration.  The bar will hand down some reprimand because of his felony breaking and entering, because that is conduct unbecoming a lawyer.  Exposing Chuck's motives probably ensures Jimmy won't be disbarred or suspended for long, but he's not off the hook, I don't think.  I don't think the hearing examiners are going to be overjoyed by the Huell reverse pickpocket trick, either.  They just witnessed a shitshow with two lawyer brothers, one of whom signed a confession, so this won't be swept under the rug. 

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess we'll never know if Rebecca remembers it.

I wish in the previouslies that they could have reminded the viewers of Chuck believing Jimmy robbed so much from their father's store that he went out of business, when in reality their father was mainly bankrupt by his own generosity towards con artist customers. It was the foundation of Chuck's attitude towards Jimmy that brought them to that day in court, right?

I'm not sure how much of their father's bankruptcy was due to Jimmy stealing, him getting conned by every grifter with a sob story or just business not being great.  I am guessing it was a combination of all 3, and Chuck greatly exaggerates Jimmy's role in it.

[nodorothyparker]

The genius of what Jimmy and Kim did was that it wasn't any one big thing like Chuck was expecting when he was so arrogantly blowing about how Jimmy wouldn't be getting his big Perry Mason confession.  He was expecting them to attempt a distraction, for them the challenge the tape, for Jimmy to pull something out of his pocket to try to trick him, something obvious that he could smack down in a big "see, this is what I have to put up with" moment and emerge triumphant from.  Instead, he got Rebecca showing up, which is relatively innocuous by itself if you don't know that he went to great pains to hide from her just how crazy he was getting and would be humiliated to appear so in front of even now.  He got a cell battery in his pocket after going on and on about how such things cause him great physical pain but don't diminish him mentally.   He got Jimmy talking and talking and talking about the realities of his "illness" instead of the usual coddling and head patting that no, of course we don't think you're crazy and even echoing the same words he used on the tape to show that this is how Jimmy has to deal with his crazy brother. 

It was death by a thousand cuts.  He was right in thinking Jimmy would try to distract him, he just wasn't expecting distraction from so many directions that his control would finally slip to reveal the monster underneath.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

Thank you!  I was thinking the same thing.  I can understand Howard and HHM accommodating him because he's a partner and probably a rainmaker for the firm, but everyone else?  The Bar Association?  They treated him like a star VIP.  Seems unrealistic.

I believe Chuck is one of the most prominent and well respected attorneys in New Mexico, so I thought the deference was realistic.

Plus, our country has become hyper-accomodating to people with disabilities, whether genuine, fake or imagined.  If Jimmy claimed the goldfish was an emotional support service animal, they probably would have let him carry it around during the hearing.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[DrSpaceman73]

I will fall in the middle here. 

It was good, but I did expect more out of the scene between Chuck and Jimmy. 

It was no A Few Good Men with the code red, but still good.

And glad to see Chuck exposed to everyone. 

And for Chuck this is even worse because the exposure is in front of his peers, the state law board. 

[Bryce Lynch]

I loved how Chuck compared his condition to AIDS during the hearing and Jimmy to the Unabomber during his rehearsal. Hyperbole much, Chuck? :)

[ShadowFacts]

11 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I believe Chuck is one of the most prominent and well respected attorneys in New Mexico, so I thought the deference was realistic.

Plus, our country has become hyper-accomodating to people with disabilities, whether genuine, fake or imagined.  If Jimmy claimed the goldfish was an emotional support service animal, they probably would have let him carry it around during the hearing.

Having just spent a week with a friend who is confined to a wheelchair, I don't agree that our country is hyper-accommodating to people with disabilities.  At all (but still better than most places in the world).  Ten or more years ago, whenever this is taking place, even less so.  The deference seemed a little excessive to me. 

[Maire]

Does Chuck have a written diagnosis from a doctor or did he self diagnose (or make it all up)?

[nodorothyparker]

Chuck does not.  The emergency room doctor we've seen throughout has said repeatedly that he's mentally ill and wanted to commit him.  I know he and Jimmy have had at least a scene or two talking about how Chuck has seen a number of doctors throughout the southwest without any success.  Right now, he's the equivalent of one of those people who diagnose themselves on WebMD because he hasn't liked any of the answers he's gotten.  

As someone who lives with someone with a disability, I'm going to say no too that as a society we're hyper accommodating.  We like to say we are right up to the point that it inconveniences someone else and a decade or so ago when this story was taking place it would have been even less so.  I've taken all the seemingly excessive deference as a professional courtesy to Chuck, who we've been told has been a longtime respected member of the legal community.  That's one reason why Kim was so adamant that Jimmy not try to defend himself alone.

[Princenyc]

4 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

And it's true that a disconnected battery will not emit an E-M field. Too bad Chuck didn't know that. Or maybe it was one of those technerd issues that TV writers don't worry about.  

Chuck's issue with batteries was documented when he could not even put them in the tape recorder. Had to get the kid to do it.

I love this show.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Princenyc

[Conan Troutman]

7 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I was hoping for a bit of ultimate theater whereby Jimmy would be seen from behind the witness stand holding up his cell phone with his finger on the SEND key, implicitly threatening Chuck to hit it, with Chuck not fully understanding that he had an active cell phone in his pocket.  Jimmy would recite somie epic words and then hit the button.  Chuck would look horrified for the second or two it took for the signal to hit his phone, which then loudly goes off with some obnoxious sounds and vibrating like crazy.  Chuck would lose his mind and go psychotically comatose.  Man, would that have been awesome.  

Ha, I was expecting the exact same thing to happen. I was actually a bit disappointed when it was only the battery. But that's fine, he's still (or better yet, was still) Jimmy McGill. Hopefully Saul Goodman will go in guns blazing next week. 

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

Also, the portrayal of Howard as a son who obtained his position via nepotism, and not acumen, was really well done. It'll be interesting to see how he tries to extricate HHM from this mess. Maybe he'll have a moment of competence, and will try to get Chuck to abandon the anti-Jimmy jihad if Jimmy will agree to abandon his name.

Yeah, HHM is pretty screwed. Howard knew it was a bad idea to let Chuck testify, but he also knew there was nothing he could do to stop Chuck.

4 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

The judge was John Getz from 'The Fly', 'Blood Simple', and my favorite 'Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead'.

I thought for a second it would be Ed Begley Jr. so we could get a "oh shit, I'm screwed" reaction from Jimmy. 

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

The hearing was actually about what Jimmy admitted to in the PPD confession, which did not include the Mesa Verde document alteration.  The bar will hand down some reprimand because of his felony breaking and entering, because that is conduct unbecoming a lawyer.  Exposing Chuck's motives probably ensures Jimmy won't be disbarred or suspended for long, but he's not off the hook, I don't think.  I don't think the hearing examiners are going to be overjoyed by the Huell reverse pickpocket trick, either.  They just witnessed a shitshow with two lawyer brothers, one of whom signed a confession, so this won't be swept under the rug. 

I think Jimmy will get some sort of punishment, but it won't be too harsh - we're still mid season, so doing a time jump is more for between seasons and following a temporarily disbarred Jimmy around for a while probably isn't all that exciting. So I guess they'll just impose some conditions and put him on probation or something like that - which could make for some interesting obstacles for the rest of the season. 

41 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I loved how Chuck compared his condition to AIDS during the hearing and Jimmy to the Unabomber during his rehearsal. Hyperbole much, Chuck? :)

Yeah, I groaned too and Chuck made it somehow feel like he was under cross examination already. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Conan Troutman

[ghoulina]

This episode was equally satisfying and also really sad. I have made no bones about how I feel about Chuck. Can't stand him. I know Jimmy is no saint and has done some really uncool things, but I always feel his heart is in the right place. I always feel that, beneath it all, he truly does love Chuck and care about his well-being. I watched his face, and Kim's, during Chuck's meltdown; and neither were happy about it. They looked really upset, quite frankly. They knew what they had to do to protect Jimmy, but there was no glee in it. No superior satisfaction. But if Chuck had won? It'd be all about superior satisfaction. I don't know that he's ever really cared about Jimmy. I think he's done what he's done for him A. out of familial obligation and B. to be close enough to Jimmy to lord his successes over him. I just really cannot stand the man. 

Yet, I somehow felt very sad for him in that final moment. When he spiraled out of control, but then tried to reign it back in. Too late. Chuck is clearly very ill. Mentally ill. I do think HE thinks he has this allergy. But it's entirely psychosomatic. If he's not thinking about it, if he's distracted, if he doesn't realize there's electronics nearby (battery & doctor's penlight), it doesn't effect him. It's so tragic, really, and I'd like to know more about his divorce and what precipitated this illness to begin with. 

Chuck's arrogance really did know no bounds. He was so used to getting his ways. Look at all the accommodations people had been making for him. How could it possibly go so wrong? Because as much as he thinks he knows Jimmy, he really doesn't. He was expecting something big and showy, some huge display of innocence perhaps. He was totally wrong. 

And I do think it says a lot about their relationship that Chuck had to rehearse saying he loves his brother. 

Things I really enjoyed:

~Kim questioning Howard on the stand. I thought she'd be a bit ruffled, but she was a pro. 

~Huell Bump-and-Dump Babineaux!!!! 'Nough said. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by ghoulina

[Dianaofthehunt]

"He defecated through a sun roof!"

Chuck lost his last shred of credibility with that line, no matter that it's technically true.

I'm disappointed that Jimmy, when displaying the photo of Chuck's house, didn't make more of the kerosene lamp sitting on top of newspapers. "THIS is where my brother stores confidential legal documents," etc.  I wonder why they didn't make that more of a plot point.

[Bryce Lynch]

20 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Chuck does not.  The emergency room doctor we've seen throughout has said repeatedly that he's mentally ill and wanted to commit him.  I know he and Jimmy have had at least a scene or two talking about how Chuck has seen a number of doctors throughout the southwest without any success.  Right now, he's the equivalent of one of those people who diagnose themselves on WebMD because he hasn't liked any of the answers he's gotten.  

As someone who lives with someone with a disability, I'm going to say no too that as a society we're hyper accommodating.  We like to say we are right up to the point that it inconveniences someone else and a decade or so ago when this story was taking place it would have been even less so.  I've taken all the seemingly excessive deference as a professional courtesy to Chuck, who we've been told has been a longtime respected member of the legal community.  That's one reason why Kim was so adamant that Jimmy not try to defend himself alone.

While, I do think we go to great lengths to accommodate those with real disabilities, what I should have stated was that it has become much easier for people with dubious or outright fake disabilities to get government benefits and accommodations.  The percentage of people receiving disability benefits has skyrocketed over the past 30 years, and the increase has been mainly from people claiming hard to prove/disprove ailments like back pain and mental illness.

Also, increasingly people have demanded accommodations for things like "emotional support animals".  Most are just scamming the system to get "no pets allowed" policies waived for their pets.  There has been some push back against this, very recently.

Also, we should remember that the ethics hearing was run by a room full of lawyers and lawyers are the most sensitive about avoiding discrimination complaints and the liability they can bring.  Because of this and Chuck's high standing in the NM legal community, I found their coddling of him to be realistic. 

Of course, now that Chuck has been exposed as a man with a psychosomatic condition with deep resentment and distrust towards his brother, that makes him appear paranoid, (though he actually is right about Jimmy) that coddling may not continue.  

[ghoulina]

9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I thought it was interesting that in the flashback, Chuck lied to Rebecca by claiming the electric company transposed the numbers in his deadbeat neighbor's address.

This show continues to amaze me with their attention to detail. The little things like that really make it all work. 

 

9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I loved how Mike's vet was so concerned about the health of the goldfish Jimmy probably flushed down the toilet 5 minutes after leaving the office.

And I loved the hilarity of Jimmy thinking a fish in a bag is a good reason to visit the vet.

 

9 hours ago, Knuckles said:

 

Huell...so good to see you. And that move on the stairs was so smooth...and the ever loyal Francesca in the back row. Jimmy's team is now lined up.

 

But I still need me some Kuby! He was my favorite. 

 

9 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I was a little surprised because I thought Huell had put a phone in Chuck's pocket that would ring during the hearing, causing Chuck to go off. Anyway, I did enjoy the journey along the way.

That's what I was expecting as well. For Jimmy to admit he had it planted seemed like kind of a bold choice given the circumstances of the hearing. 

[Bryce Lynch]

21 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

"He defecated through a sun roof!"

Chuck lost his last shred of credibility with that line, no matter that it's technically true.

I'm disappointed that Jimmy, when displaying the photo of Chuck's house, didn't make more of the kerosene lamp sitting on top of newspapers. "THIS is where my brother stores confidential legal documents," etc.  I wonder why they didn't make that more of a plot point.

I was hoping Chuck would have yelled over and over, "He did a Chicago Sunroof, for crying out loud, a Chicago Sunroof, a Chicago Sunroof!!!" That would have been hilarious and would have killed his credibility even more, as they would all be thinking, "What the hell is a Chicago Sunroof?"

18 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

This show continues to amaze me with their attention to detail. The little things like that really make it all work. 

 

And I loved the hilarity of Jimmy thinking a fish in a bag is a good reason to visit the vet.

 

But I still need me some Kuby! He was my favorite. 

 

That's what I was expecting as well. For Jimmy to admit he had it planted seemed like kind of a bold choice given the circumstances of the hearing. 

I also loved the look the woman sitting to Jimmy's right at the vet's office gave him.  

Edited May 9, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I'm not sure how much of their father's bankruptcy was due to Jimmy stealing, him getting conned by every grifter with a sob story or just business not being great.  I am guessing it was a combination of all 3, and Chuck greatly exaggerates Jimmy's role in it.

I feel the same way. I can see little Jimmy knicking a few dollars here and there, but I cannot see him taking enough from his own father to cause a bankruptcy. Jimmy is shady, to be certain, but this show has shown us just how loyal Jimmy is to family. No matter how shitty Chuck was to Jimmy, he still came running when Chuck needed him. I just cannot reconcile that Jimmy with a guy who would financially ruin his own father. 

[Bryce Lynch]

12 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I feel the same way. I can see little Jimmy knicking a few dollars here and there, but I cannot see him taking enough from his own father to cause a bankruptcy. Jimmy is shady, to be certain, but this show has shown us just how loyal Jimmy is to family. No matter how shitty Chuck was to Jimmy, he still came running when Chuck needed him. I just cannot reconcile that Jimmy with a guy who would financially ruin his own father. 

I tend to agree.  In "Rebecca" Chuck tells Kim that when he went home to help his father straighten out his books he found a total of $14,000 missing.  He also said, "I'm no accountant.", so it is possible his calculations were off.  He also stated that their father refused to believe it was Jimmy, which could suggest, most of it wasn't Jimmy. 

We know that their father was getting scammed by local grifters, in addition to whatever Jimmy stole.  So, if we assume it was half and half, Jimmy might have taken about $7,000, over the course of many years.  That would not seem to be enough to sink their father's business.  

In fairness to Chuck, he also came running when Jimmy needed help, ( "He defecated through a sunroof!!!" lol).  I do get the sense that Chuck helped Jimmy mainly out of a sense of duty, (which is fine), while Jimmy helped Chuck out of love and gratitude (which is even better).  

Edited May 9, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[benteen]

3 hours ago, GussieK said:

He's also in the new season of Bosch on Amazon, which I just binged  

Thank you!  I kept wondering where I had just seen him in recently and it was indeed Bosch (which I very much enjoyed).

Kim scored greatly when she noted that Howard's father was the other Hamlin in their law firm.

I understand that Chuck is supposed to be an all-star in the NM legal scene and according to Jimmy, those involved in the disbarment hearing owe their careers for them.  Still, I find the lengths they go to appease him to be ridiculous.

Speaking of Chuck, can the Emmy Awards please nominate Michael McKean?  He's is doing amazing work on this show.

Edited May 9, 2017 by benteen

[nodorothyparker]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

I feel the same way. I can see little Jimmy knicking a few dollars here and there, but I cannot see him taking enough from his own father to cause a bankruptcy. Jimmy is shady, to be certain, but this show has shown us just how loyal Jimmy is to family. No matter how shitty Chuck was to Jimmy, he still came running when Chuck needed him. I just cannot reconcile that Jimmy with a guy who would financially ruin his own father. 

I have no trouble believing teenage Jimmy helped himself to the till now and then.  But the show left those scenes ambiguous enough that I don't think it's possible to definitely know any more than that.  We did see that Mr. McGill was something of an easy mark and we can certainly infer from that maybe he wasn't the greatest businessman who was a little too generous for his own good.  My hunch is that it was combination of factors but it ultimately doesn't matter.  Chuck believes Jimmy stole from their father because he wants to believe it.  So in his mind it's fact.

And I am with you in thinking the sheer lengths of Jimmy's loyalty are a point in his favor.

[acid burn]

55 minutes ago, Princenyc said:

Chuck's issue with batteries was documented when he could not even put them in the tape recorder. Had to get the kid to do it.

Exactly. Maybe I didn't phrase this correctly but my point was not that it emitted an electromagnetic field but rather they freaked Chuck out and Jimmy knew it, which would produce the desired effect. 

For whomever asked, I think the reason Jimmy called Rebecca was for high theater. Chuck's ex-wife crying in the audience over his mental illness sold the narrative.

I do wonder why Kim says "Who's Saul Goodman?" (or something to that effect) on the previews for next week. I feel like it may be a red herring and it's an alias Jimmy has used before, although I could be wrong. God, I love this show.

[Lion18]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Having just spent a week with a friend who is confined to a wheelchair, I don't agree that our country is hyper-accommodating to people with disabilities.  At all (but still better than most places in the world).  Ten or more years ago, whenever this is taking place, even less so.  The deference seemed a little excessive to me. 

I had to go to a child support hearing( ex doesn't pay) so my disability is lack of hearing

the disrespectful magistrate started with" I don't feel like screaming this morning"

nice. Very nice

[DrSpaceman73]

For some reason it just struck me in this episode of Howard and Kim parallel each other and how much she is like Howard, personally and legally. 

I do wonder how much of this hearing will get out into the public.  I understand in the close knit legal community rumors and things are bound to spread, but to the general public I am not sure how much it will be heard.  Probably very little. 

If its like the medical board disciplinary actions, a newsletter is put out with the actions taken, but its not in the general news.  And even then its a summary overview of what is decided and the case. 

Not many people are in the room for the hearing and I would suspect those on the legal board are bound not to gossip about things.  The point being I am not sure how much this will affect HHM.  I think it will affect Chuck.  I suspect Howard and the board will have some serious decisions to make about his future with the firm.  Losing him would affect the firm.  It could have gone much worse though if questions others have mentioned were brought up about legal files in Chuck's home  and how safe they were. 

[Ottis]

7 hours ago, Bannon said:

I normally dislike courtroom dramas, but I really enjoyed this, because it was the pinnacle of what the writers have been driving at for two-plus seasons, with regard to Chuck's disease, which is that it is Chuck being terrified of the loss of control over others is what compels him to think he has this physical response to electricity. He uses the phony physical disease as a passive aggressive tool to control the people around him, and he doesn't even realize it, due to his real mental illness.

The cold open was also a brilliant  manifestation of this idea. When Rebecca pulls the phone out, Chuck can't simply pretend to go use the bathroom, until she ends the call. Nope,  he hangs around, convincing himself of his increasing pain, until he finally grabs the phone from the person who is directing attention at someone other than Chuck (remember his response to Rebecca giving Jimmy attention at the dinner where they met?), and flings the phone away. Then, in a double reverse, he pretends to lie to Rebecca, supposedly to conceal a physical illness, by stating that he did it because he is a controlling A-hole. The supreme irony is that this is exactly why he did it.

This is great, great, writing, and the actors are delivering the goods, each and every week.

Thank you so much for this. It makes a lot of sense, and is a far more subtle reading than I made so far. And it explains why I don't like Chuck, even as I sympathize that  the guy has an illness and also isn't wrong about some of his comments about Jimmy. The assholery is due to his need for control, and that's what I am responding to without even realizing it. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Ottis

[Lurky McLurkerson]

10 hours ago, Ottis said:

Turned out to be another "you can't handle the truth" moment, subsidized by a simple set up with the battery. I was hoping for something more clever and surprising, that would have shown Jimmy was actually Chuck's equal... or better... at law. Oh well. 

Actually, I think this continues to illustrate the long-running theme that is fueling Chuck's rage against Jimmy.  Jimmy's NOT Chuck's equal or better at law... yet people continue to side with/like Jimmy better than Chuck.  Chuck sees himself as smarter, more morally upright, more cultured, and overall just a BETTER person than Jimmy, yet Jimmy keeps, in Chuck's eyes, "winning".  People like Jimmy.  People forgive Jimmy for nearly anything.  People want to help Jimmy succeed, despite all his flaws and questionable character.  And Chuck intercedes in these to keep Jimmy from "getting away with" his Slippin' Jimmy routines.  And he's angry because he's doing everything right and no one will acknowledge his superiority over Jimmy, dammit!

For Jimmy to out-lawyer Chuck would be out of character.  For Jimmy to be less than a lawyer than Chuck but still come out smelling like a rose is what pushes Chuck over the edge into.  Pandering to the underdog-character-bests-the-villain-at-his-own-game trope would be way more pedestrian to me than staying true to who these characters have been for 2.5 seasons.

[Bryce Lynch]

I love the moral complexity of this show.

We see Chuck exposed on the witness stand, as a seriously mentally ill man, who is motivated largely by issues with his brother that go back to childhood, and both of these things are true.  

On the other hand, Chuck is made to look paranoid and as one who has lost his attention to detail. Now everyone will think he screwed up and came up with this wild tale about how Jimmy stole his files, doctored them at the copy shop, placed the doctored copies in his files to sabotage Chuck, sneaked back in to put back the original copies, and bribed the copy shop guy to lie to Chuck and destroy the surveillance tape.

But the fact is Chuck was 100% right about what happened.  He made no mistake, and he figured out Jimmy's plot down to the finest detail.  

He also looked nuts for thinking Jimmy orchestrated the billboard rescue, when again, he was 100% correct.  

He is made to look like a man with an irrational distrust of his brother, but that distrust is actually quite rational as Jimmy has always been and still is a con artist, who will commit shady and illegal acts when it suits his purposes.  He might have "good intentions" in most of his scams, but he is still Slippin' Jimmy when he thinks he needs to be.   

Yet, somehow, on some level, Chuck "deserves" what happened to him and I greatly enjoyed seeing him unraveled on the stand.  

[Bryce Lynch]

This was posted on another site.  Notice the time when the clock is removed from the courtroom?  12:16...or was it 12:61? :)

Someone also pointed out that Jimmy asked Chuck:

"Uh, so, okay, if you'd had, um I don't know lung cancer, would you have told Rebecca then?"  

Come on, who would ever hide lung cancer from his wife? ;)

The attention to detail on this show is off the charts. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

I'm disappointed that Jimmy, when displaying the photo of Chuck's house, didn't make more of the kerosene lamp sitting on top of newspapers. "THIS is where my brother stores confidential legal documents," etc.  I wonder why they didn't make that more of a plot point.

Howard did allude to it in his testimony, saying something like the documents should have been safely stored at HHM.  So there was that.

1 hour ago, Princenyc said:

Chuck's issue with batteries was documented when he could not even put them in the tape recorder. Had to get the kid to do it.

My impression was that Chuck did that so that Ernie would "accidentally" hear the incriminating tape.  Chuck had to have handled that tape recorder all by himself when he initially did the secret recording. 

26 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

For some reason it just struck me in this episode of Howard and Kim parallel each other and how much she is like Howard, personally and legally. 

Yes, I thought of that when she stood up and took a second to button her jacket.  Like Howard.  But she strikes me as smarter, maybe because I like her more. 

[Blakeston]

I don't buy for a second that the ethics committee would go easy on Jimmy after he admitted that he blatantly violated their instructions about not bringing electronics/batteries into the room, and hired someone to plant something on a well-respected attorney before he testified. That's obviously conduct unbecoming a lawyer.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I don't buy for a second that the ethics committee would go easy on Jimmy after he admitted that he blatantly violated their instructions about not bringing electronics/batteries into the room, and hired someone to plant something on a well-respected attorney before he testified. That's obviously conduct unbecoming a lawyer.

Well, that stuff is unbecoming to a real lawyer, but the sort of thing you expect from a TV lawyer. :)

His trickery might bother the ethics panel, but I think the key issue for Jimmy is making them believe Chuck's claim that he doctored the files was nuts.  The breaking down the door and destroying the tape would probably get him a suspension, but they would probably be seen as an emotional reaction, during a family squabble,  The doctoring of the files would demonstrate Jimmy's dishonesty and lack of character and would almost certainly lead to disbarment.

Getting Chuck to look crazy, bitter and paranoid on the stand was huge for Jimmy's defense.   I think his main obstacle now is getting past all the "I did it for Kim!  Kim deserved Mesa Verde!" stuff on the tape (I had forgotten how incriminating that was).  I am guessing Jimmy will claim he was play acting and added those details to make his "confession" more convincing, so his "poor, mentally disturbed" brother would believe it and calm down.  Chuck admitted to "playing up his condition" to get Jimmy to confess, so I think Jimmy will say he was "playing up his desire to help Kim" to get Chuck to believe him and take down the space blankets. 

[Eulipian 5k]

I liked how Kim set up the entire framework of the case,

• Yes Jimmy did all these things he said in the PPD (nothing confessed to about Mesa Verde)
• But, the Bar should see this as a family argument between brothers that is being used to disbar a lawyer
• The motive to disbar is to spite, not out of respect for the law
• Chuck hates Jimmy  - that was her conclusion, and it was proven by the outburst
• And she got the leeway that was essential to Jimmy's whole line of questioning

Chuck had conceded that the Bar might slap a temporary disbarment but wanted permanent disbarment. The Bar has to realize that this chicanery by Chuck is really a matter that should have remained out of court and certainly not an issue for the bar. They simply can't sanction this level of vindictiveness as a pre-text for weeding out Jimmy and keeping an A-hole like Chuck as a paramount of the Law profession.

Like other posters though I don't think they tied up the "Bingo" from last week.

[Blakeston]

17 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Well, that stuff is unbecoming to a real lawyer, but the sort of thing you expect from a TV lawyer. :)

His trickery might bother the ethics panel, but I think the key issue for Jimmy is making them believe Chuck's claim that he doctored the files was nuts.

I can't even imagine the wrath a state bar association's ethics panel would have for someone who gave them such a blatant "fuck you." When you've already admitted to committing a felony, breaking their rules so openly is idiotic.

Plus, planting something on someone is also illegal, and planting electronics on someone who believes he's severely allergic to them is horrific, even if it turns out the allergy is psychosomatic.

I get that it made for good TV for there to be a "it turns out there was a battery on you this whole time!" moment. But there would realistically be enormous consequences for it.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Blakeston

[scenario]

Just now, Blakeston said:

I can't even imagine the wrath a state bar association's ethics panel would have for someone who gave them such a blatant "fuck you." When you've already admitted to committing a felony, breaking their rules in such a blatant way is idiotic.

Plus, planting something on someone is also illegal, and planting electronics on someone who believes he's severely allergic to them is horrific, even if it turns out the allergy is psychosomatic.

I get that it made for good TV for there to be a "it turns out there was a battery on you this whole time!" moment. But there would realistically be enormous consequences for it.

But this is a hearing not a trial. They said that there is a lot more flexibility than at a trial. This maybe something that is left to the discretion of the judges. They respected Chuck and don't want to cause a mentally ill person any more pain. 

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I liked how Kim set up the entire framework of the case,

• Yes Jimmy did all these things he said in the PPD (nothing confessed to about Mesa Verde)
• But, the Bar should see this as a family argument between brothers that is being used to disbar a lawyer
• The motive to disbar is to spite, not out of respect for the law
• Chuck hates Jimmy  - that was her conclusion, and it was proven by the outburst
• And she got the leeway that was essential to Jimmy's whole line of questioning

Chuck had conceded that the Bar might slap a temporary disbarment but wanted permanent disbarment. The Bar has to realize that this chicanery by Chuck is really a matter that should have remained out of court and certainly not an issue for the bar. They simply can't sanction this level of vindictiveness as a pre-text for weeding out Jimmy and keeping an A-hole like Chuck as a paramount of the Law profession.

Like other posters though I don't think they tied up the "Bingo" from last week.

I think the "Bingo" simply meant.  "Yes! They have the original tape and plan to introduce it!  This will allow us to cross examine Chuck about his sanity!"

I think Chuck has dual motives.  He is jealous and bitter against Jimmy for always getting away with everything and being "loved more" but he also sincerely (and correctly) believes that Jimmy as a lawyer is a menace.  His bitterness towards Jimmy is undermining his ability to communicate to the ethics board what a threat Slippin' Jimmy really is.

Regardless of Chuck's motives, if the ethics panel believes James McGill stole another attorney's files and doctored them, causing him professional embarrassment and damages to his client they should absolutely disbar him permanently.  However, after learning about the nature of Chuck's "illness" and about his obsession with his little brother, I think they will believe that Jimmy falsely "confessed" to calm down his mentally disturbed brother.  

[revbfc]

As much as my baser nature was cheering for Chuck's comeuppance, the rational side of me tempered that right down.

There is nothing to cheer about fate.  We know Jimmy sold his soul when we first met him in BB.  This is whole story of brothers is masterful in tricking the audience into a picking sides in a family tearing itself to ribbons.

Chuck is an ass, Jimmy is a crook.  Neither deserves to win, and Jimmy will only come out on top because Chuck made the mistake of stepping into Jimmy's world to destroy him.  At least Jimmy got a law degree before he stepped toe-to-toe with his brother.

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, revbfc said:

As much as my baser nature was cheering for Chuck's comeuppance, the rational side of me tempered that right down.

There is nothing to cheer about fate.  We know Jimmy sold his soul when we first met him in BB.  This is whole story of brothers is masterful in tricking the audience into a picking sides in a family tearing itself to ribbons.

Chuck is an ass, Jimmy is a crook.  Neither deserves to win, and Jimmy will only come out on top because Chuck made the mistake of stepping into Jimmy's world to destroy him.  At least Jimmy got a law degree before he stepped toe-to-toe with his brother.

Seeing Chuck humiliated and made to look paranoid and incompetent on the stand, reminded me of when Hank and Marie watched Walt's "confession" video. It was a pack of lies, but so well told and with enough facts thrown in so that everybody would believe it.  

[Blakeston]

18 minutes ago, scenario said:

But this is a hearing not a trial. They said that there is a lot more flexibility than at a trial. This maybe something that is left to the discretion of the judges. They respected Chuck and don't want to cause a mentally ill person any more pain. 

Right, which is why I think they'd be utterly horrified that an attorney, who's already in deep trouble with them, decided to disobey their order to ban electronics from the room, and hired a goon to plant something on a mentally ill person.

Even if it convinced them that he was lying to make Chuck feel better, he'd still have the book thrown at him. They simply don't let lawyers get away with that.

[PeterPirate]

2 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Right, which is why I think they'd be utterly horrified that an attorney, who's already in deep trouble with them, decided to disobey their order to ban electronics from the room, and hired a goon to plant something on a mentally ill person.

Even if it convinced them that he was lying to make Chuck feel better, he'd still have the book thrown at him. They simply don't let lawyers get away with that.

It also gives more weight to Chuck's claim that Jimmy is the type of person who would forge documents. 

And, conversely, undermines any claim Jimmy might make that he said the things on the tape to make Chuck feel better. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by PeterPirate

[Gigilove]

11 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

Is it my imagination, or is Huell a more svelte man in BCS than he was in BB?  He was heavier in BB, wasn't he?  He looked different to me tonight, for some reason.

You could see that Jimmy hated having to stage that whole scenario to expose Chuck.  He didn't want to have to do that to his brother, no matter how much of an ass he is.  It was kind of clear that Jimmy was heading in that direction in the courtroom, but it was no less effective when Chuck pulled the battery out of his pocket in horror.

Who is that tangling with Nacho in the preview for next week?  Is that the guy who was with Hector at Eladio's house last week?

Yesss I thought the same thing!  He looks like he lost weight (or he wasn't as big as he was in breaking bad)

 

as for who who was with Nacho,  I believe it was Mike,  I kept rewinding it and then did a slow motion and it was mike flipping the table, I just want to know who Nacho is pulling on at that last clip looked like the assistant manager at Gus place.   I hope Nacho doesn't get killed off,  he is a good character imo

[scenario]

4 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Right, which is why I think they'd be utterly horrified that an attorney, who's already in deep trouble with them, decided to disobey their order to ban electronics from the room, and hired a goon to plant something on a mentally ill person.

Even if it convinced them that he was lying to make Chuck feel better, he'd still have the book thrown at him. They simply don't let lawyers get away with that.

Jimmy shouldn't get off with no punishment. They will certainly mention Jimmy's stunt when they hand down their ruling. Technically, was their request to have all electronics removed an order or a request? 

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, Lurky McLurkerson said:

For Jimmy to out-lawyer Chuck would be out of character.  For Jimmy to be less than a lawyer than Chuck but still come out smelling like a rose is what pushes Chuck over the edge into.  Pandering to the underdog-character-bests-the-villain-at-his-own-game trope would be way more pedestrian to me than staying true to who these characters have been for 2.5 seasons.

This depends on what your definition of a good lawyer is. All we know is that somehow Chuck became a lawyer and partner, and Jimmy later managed to become a lawyer on his own. Somewhere in there Chuck began to actively work against Jimmy's success as a lawyer, which this episode addressed in part. It could be that Jimmy *is* a better lawyer than Chuck, due in part to his willingness to connect with people. We don't know the answer to who ultimately is a better lawyer. We only know how Chuck views it. 

That's why I originally posted that I had hoped for something more and maybe surprising. Jimmy provoking Chuck to lose it was the most cliched way to go. In fact, I'm not sure I buy Chuck would do that. He had been preparing for his own remarks, and knew this was the coup de grace for his victory over Jimmy. Rebecca being present was a wild card, so there is that. But even so, if Chuck is as good a lawyer as he thinks he is, I don't believe he would have lost it that way over what we saw. That's another reason why I thought, if the situations were reversed, Jimmy would have handled it better. Of course, Chuck's mental illness around being in control of those around him may have been the trigger. Still pondering that.

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, Gigilove said:

Yesss I thought the same thing!  He looks like he lost weight (or he wasn't as big as he was in breaking bad)

 

as for who who was with Nacho,  I believe it was Mike,  I kept rewinding it and then did a slow motion and it was mike flipping the table, I just want to know who Nacho is pulling on at that last clip looked like the assistant manager at Gus place.   I hope Nacho doesn't get killed off,  he is a good character imo

I am almost certain the man who throws over the table with Nacho is

Spoiler

Hector.

The person who Nacho has by the throat is

Spoiler

Domingo aka Krazy 8!!! 

[benteen]

Oh yeah, I imagine Jimmy would probably get disbarred because of his antics in real life.  I suspect he might still get a temporary disbarment on the show.

[peeayebee]

This just occurred to me: Chuckanery

 

7 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

Thank you!  I was thinking the same thing.  I can understand Howard and HHM accommodating him because he's a partner and probably a rainmaker for the firm, but everyone else?  The Bar Association?  They treated him like a star VIP.  Seems unrealistic.

There have been many times during the show's run that I kinda rolled my eyes at how everyone accommodates Chuck without, well, rolling THEIR eyes. Yet there is the Americans With Disabilities Act, and esp in legal environments, it makes sense that people would accommodate him.

 

6 hours ago, Pannekoeker said:

So why did Jimmy bring Rebecca into this at all ?

Why was she needed to expose Chuck, couldn't it have been without here ? I don't really see the point , can anyone explain ?

I would like this clarified as well.  I don't think Jimmy just wanted to humiliate Chuck in front of her. Was it something to do with distracting Chuck? I'm sure Chuck figured Jimmy had some tricks up his sleeve, so seeing Rebecca might have caused Chuck to let his guard down. Yet, Chuck's belief in his superiority would probably prevent him from putting up a guard. Also, with the battery in his pocket for nearly 2 hours, there wasn't any need to distract him. So... I don't get it.

[Auntie Anxiety]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

And I loved the hilarity of Jimmy thinking a fish in a bag is a good reason to visit the vet.

That was a pure Jimmy/Saul move. Other people would have at least considered borrowing a friend's dog or cat but Jimmy takes it to the outer margins and doesn't show a hint of caring how ridiculous he appears to others.

1 hour ago, acid burn said:

I do wonder why Kim says "Who's Saul Goodman?" (or something to that effect) on the previews for next week. I feel like it may be a red herring and it's an alias Jimmy has used before, although I could be wrong.

It could be anything, even as trivial as the law office receiving a magazine addressed to Saul Goodman

1 hour ago, Lurky McLurkerson said:

Actually, I think this continues to illustrate the long-running theme that is fueling Chuck's rage against Jimmy.  Jimmy's NOT Chuck's equal or better at law... yet people continue to side with/like Jimmy better than Chuck.  Chuck sees himself as smarter, more morally upright, more cultured, and overall just a BETTER person than Jimmy, yet Jimmy keeps, in Chuck's eyes, "winning".  People like Jimmy.  People forgive Jimmy for nearly anything.  People want to help Jimmy succeed, despite all his flaws and questionable character.  And Chuck intercedes in these to keep Jimmy from "getting away with" his Slippin' Jimmy routines.  And he's angry because he's doing everything right and no one will acknowledge his superiority over Jimmy, dammit!

I can understand how Chuck feels. I've known people in my life who manage to duck the bullet time and again, receiving treatment that a law-abiding person would never get. Playing by the rules doesn't always mean you'll win. 

This sibling rivalry thing caught my eye very early on in Season One. Initially Chuck does a decent job making it look like he's a loving brother but Michael McKean played it well, always with an undertone of jealousy and frustration. Jimmy just has a certain charisma that Chuck will never have (maybe losing that self-righteous, moral superiority, condescending attitude would have helped).

I also binge-watched Bosch and liked it. I had to shake some of the cobwebs out of my head when I saw John(?) Getz playing the head overseer in this episode, because in Bosch he was seated in a very similar, three person committee in one of the last episodes. I had to chuckle.

[scenario]

3 minutes ago, benteen said:

Oh yeah, I imagine Jimmy would probably get disbarred because of his antics in real life.  I suspect he might still get a temporary disbarment on the show.

I'm not so sure. If they went strictly by the rules, probably. But agencies don't always go strictly by the rules. People aren't always as logical and rational as they think they are. I don't know about the legalities of putting something in someone's pocket. If he planted evidence, like putting drugs in someones pocket, that's clearly illegal but a battery, I'm not so sure. 

[revbfc]

Chuck's big mistake was not being up front with Jimmy the moment he asked for a job as an associate.  The truth would have hurt, but it would have been temporary.  

[benteen]

6 minutes ago, revbfc said:

Chuck's big mistake was not being up front with Jimmy the moment he asked for a job as an associate.  The truth would have hurt, but it would have been temporary.  

I have no problem with Chuck not giving Jimmy a job right away.  Jimmy had earned a law license (unknown to anyone) but that didn't entitle him to a job at a prestigious law firm.  He could have sold it to Jimmy that way instead of how his lackey Howard lie to Jimmy about it.

[Auntie Anxiety]

4 minutes ago, revbfc said:

 

Chuck's big mistake was not being up front with Jimmy the moment he asked for a job as an associate.  The truth would have hurt, but it would have been temporary.  

 

Not so sure of this. Just the idea of Jimmy becoming a lawyer disturbed Chuck. He couldn't countenance the idea that Jimmy would be in a position to uphold the law and be on "equal footing" with him (Chuck). Chuck wants to believe that attorneys should be above the common riffraff. We all know that that is not always true.