S04.E10: Die All, Die Merrily

[MostlyC]

Quote

Octavia fights in the final battle for the survival of her people, but not everyone is willing to play fair.

[UNOSEZ]

Good episode.. Realistic way for Octavia to win it... Loved her mommy moment with Indra... Saw a lil side eye from Gaia.. Hope they don't go the jealousy route with those two would totes prefer if they just sistered up... And after two weeks of Abby doing "Ugh Abby" stuff this week her daughter takes the prize.... Smh

[dippydee]

Good things:

1) No Jasper is always a win in my book

2) Octavia and Indra got to have a moment. They're one of my favourite relationships on the show

Bad things:

1) Pretty much everything else. I'll admit some of the actual bunker games weren't that bad in themselves but I'm pissed at what they did to Luna, she deserved than that. Also, Clarke WTF?! It took her all of 10 minutes to get from I want to save humanity to ehh, screw it, let's just lock ourselves in here. I'm sort of impressed, Murphy might call himself a cockroach but Clarke and Jaha would truly survive anything the world throws at them one way or the other.

Also they need to stop with these Raven-less episodes. I want an entire episode of Raven scienceing into space with head!Becca/ALIE or whatever she is to make up for all the time they leave her out of the episodes.

Edited May 4, 2017 by dippydee

[madam magpie]

OK...I know I missed an episode or two early on, but what happened to Luna??

[AudienceofOne]

Fuck this show. That's all I have to say for now.

I just want to know which writer or showrunner (need I ask) said, "People say we fucked over Bellamy's character last season and now he doesn't deserve Clarke. I know! Let's fuck Clarke over too to get her on the same basis! After all, there are no good guys, right? Right?"

What I'm also not going to comment on? That the only pacifist character is also a nihilist. Fuck you, Rothenberg. 

[patchwork]

At this point I can't blame Skycrew for taking the bunker for themselves. 

All season they've been trying various ways to save as many as possible but then it falls apart thanks to the Grounders, and Abbey that one time.

And the Grounders reaction to finding the miracle bunker? Let's have a war!

Who wouldn't decide to hell with them and just save thenselves. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by patchwork

[Nay]

I'm not sure I agree that everyone is out of character in this ep,  yes Clarke was willing to try and share but the idiot Grounders do what they always do and try to solve everything with violence pretty much killing all of the Sky people if Octavia bites it.  Clarke has always done what she needed to do to save her people, if some grounders make it in as well awesome, but I really don't see her being happy with a 100% death rate for the sky dudes.

Luna's mental break has been coming for awhile now, her' no-one deserves to live' attitude is hardly out of left field. She has increasingly had enough of the Sky peoples shit for awhile now and her relationship with other grounders is hardly sparky.  I think people just love the idea of the water hippy and miss what is actually being shown sometimes.

Personally I loved the ep, I hate cast bloat so a brutal trimming now and then is always welcome for me.  When Bell got kidnapped I knew it was going to turn out to be Clarkes doing, she looked just way to shifty after convincing Bell to go to Octavia. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Nice to see that the guy from the Ricola ads and his Alphorn survived the apocalypse, and passed it down through the generations.

So instead of a battle royale, we get a version of the Running Man with everyone duking it out amount amongst ruins.  Bunker Games indeed.

Seriously, it took them 3 days to whip up this battle tournament (since last episode the death wave was 6 days out) -- in order to block off the streets and move everyone out -- yet few can watch.  This makes no sense.

Just what this show needed -- more candle snifting.

Oh nooooees, Bellamy thinks someone is cheating and he's on the case.  Really, no one expected cheating in a life or death battle.  FFS !

Octavia appears to be representing the KISS army, not Skaicru.

Ilian gets an arrow through the neck from Echo, who looks like she's wearing a Chewbacca mask.  But now Octavia has more motivation to win, so yay !

How come Bellamy will get killed if he's found in the arena, but the lamplighter guy gets free and clear passage ? This tournament is so stupid.

Seriously, security into the arena area -- you know, to prevent walk-ons and cheating -- is just terrible, apparently anybody can waltz right in.

Delay of game due to black rain -- turns out not so much, as it only really seems to affect Octavia.

So, Octavia wins, and everyone wins too !!!!   Yay !!

Except Clarke and Jaha pulled a fast one while everyone was watching the tournament.  That is such bullshit.
And everyone else in Skaicru knew about it but Bellamy -- seriously ?

And Clarke basically screwed Octavia over -- is there a secret back door to the bunker somewhere ?

So, is Raven still on Alie's island ?  And where is Murphy ?

Edited May 4, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[UNOSEZ]

To me nothing came out of left field... Luna has been more and more disgusted with it all especially skykru  for a while now... Yes Octavia has been a murderbot but that didn't strip away the fun loving girl from before... Plus the talk with mommy Indra and hearing Bellamy talk about her helped... As for Clarke shes been baby haha for a while now they wanted to share.. I personally think they could have.. Had they not hooked up with ice nation... But that alliance just threw everything up in the air... So she did what she could for the people she could with the time they had... 

[jay741982]

Fuck Clarke for Choosing Jaha over Octavia. Why is he so important?

[Artsda]

I detest Clarke and her dictating decision making. I hope Octavia attacks her next. Octavia never should have forgiven Clarke for the last time she screwed her over.

[mybabyaidan]

Everyone has also forgotten about poor Kaine. He's also stuck outside with Octavia.  Unless I missed something and he knew?  I missed the first 10 minutes.

 

Wonder if Abby knew about that part.

Edited May 4, 2017 by mybabyaidan

[Fireball]

It's probably a good indication that it's time to stop watching a show when you honestly don't care if everyone dies. I'm at this point; I just really don't care about anyone anymore. 

[shireenbamfatheon]

Clarke is irredeemable to me at this point. I thought for sure they were gonna do something new with the character this season, but this is the fourth season in a row where she commits atrocity after atrocity and hides behind the excuse of "my people" while feeling sorry for herself and pretending she's better than everyone else (her fake-ass "blood must not have blood" mantra in season 3 that only applied to the Grounders, anyone?). This season alone she enforced an authoritarian rule, imprisoned Jasper for wanting to tell the people the truth, allowed herself to be put on a list she'd excluded Monty, the guy who thought of the solution, from, because he was "only an apprentice", went along with human sacrifice, helped extract blood from an unwilling donor, tried to deceive her way to a position of power (because she knows best), and now this shit. To make it worse, she has once again left Kane and Octavia for dead while O risked her own life to save her people. Bellamy already forgave her for TonDC, but if he gets over her second betrayal this season, I'm done with this show. 

Other characters feel remorse and try to redeem themselves, regardless of whether you feel they've earned their redemption or not e.g. Bellamy, Kane, Murphy. 

Some characters do messed up stuff and don't pretend to rise above it e.g. Murphy up till recently, Season 4!Octavia, Echo, Ontari, Roan, Indra.

But not Clarke. No, she tries to justify it every single time. Her words don't mean anything anymore because she's said them so many times. And yet she still clings to that self-righteous justification. How often can you commit atrocities in the name of your people until you have no humanity left? Because that's the point Clarke reached for me a long time ago. She's the personification of tribalism. 
 

Edited May 4, 2017 by shireenbamfatheon

[AudienceofOne]

8 hours ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

She's the personification of tribalism.

Clarke? The personification of tribalism? Clarke is the least tribalist person on the show left alive (because Finn and Lincoln filled that niche). The fact we can go, "Oh Clarke's actions in this make complete sense because she's such a tribalist" shows how godawful the writing this season is - even when compared to last season. Clarke's always been a pragmatist, extremely so, and she's always tried to bring everybody together. It's everybody else that keeps falling back into factions. Even Roan conceded that Clarke was the only person he could think of who wasn't "us vs them".

I wasn't angry at the writers for having Clarke take the bunker. Considering the way the 12 clans have acted since Lexa died, I can see her believing this is the only pragmatic choice for saving some of humanity. What I was angry about was the way the show framed it. "Oh, the Grounders finally found a way to work together but Clarke has wrecked that". That's the antithesis of Clarke's character and it was designed solely for her to come into conflict with Bellamy. Basically, this entire plotline is so Bellamy can regain some of the high ground in their relationship to undo the damage done by last season. And seriously? Fuck that!

Even as someone who's an OTP Bellarke shipper, their relationship is not the point of the show.

I don't even want to start on the litany of contrivances that led to this point, up to and including the silly overwhelming existential threat of the "radiation wave". If the writers have to threaten the entire of humanity to get Clarke to compromise her ethics, then it's the premise of the season that's wrong.

[AudienceofOne]

3 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

The plot is so incredibly contrived at this point, the show is just spinning its own wheels at this point.

Bear in mind this episode was predicated on Roan suddenly deciding to dissolve his alliance with Skaikru for no reason, Azgeda attacking Trikru for no reason, Trikru attacking Skaikru because they were angry at Azgeda and then various clans declaring they wouldn't share the bunker with other clans - even though that's not how their society works. Roan appointed himself Commander despite having no Night Blood but suddenly he's all about the sanctity of the position when Clarke tries to take power?

All this to get to this episode. Oh look, it's Unity Day and the 13th station - sorry, clan - is refusing to comply with Unity. Super subtle, Rothenburg. As usual.

And, as with the Mount Weather analogy and the Jaha analogy, it's clumsy as hell since the last thing anybody told Clarke was "fuck humanity" not "unity".

But I prepare myself for Clarke vs Bellamy next episode, which is after all the entire point of this setup.

This show is trying my patience. Was a genius second season really worth sitting through the rest of this dreck?

[shireenbamfatheon]

11 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Clarke? The personification of tribalism? Clarke is the least tribalist person on the show left alive (because Finn and Lincoln filled that niche). The fact we can go, "Oh Clarke's actions in this make complete sense because she's such a tribalist" shows how godawful the writing this season is - even when compared to last season. Clarke's always been a pragmatist, extremely so, and she's always tried to bring everybody together. It's everybody else that keeps falling back into factions. Even Roan conceded that Clarke was the only person he could think of who wasn't "us vs them".

 

Really? The least tribalist? I guess we're pretending Marcus "we're all Grounders now" Kane, Octavia, season 4!Bellamy who risked his own people to save Grounder slaves (which Clarke disagreed with) and Murphy (who just doesn't give a damn about any specific group) don't exist on this show.

A pragmatist who values her own people over everyone else. Or are we ignoring she went against Raven's wishes to tell the Grounders about the nuclear apocalypse because she didn't trust them enough to keep a cool head? Her and Roan kept knowledge about Preimfaya from everyone and saw it fitting to decide the fates of tens of thousands of people. She disrespected Grounder law and tradition when she tried to assassinate Nia because she disagreed with their way of doing things. She looked down on the Grounders for their "blood must have blood" way of thinking, persuaded Lexa that "blood must not have blood" when her own people committed mass murder and then subscribed to the exact same thing herself following Lexa's death, which Luna called her out on. She went against the wishes of every Grounder to hold a conclave because she's above their cultures and traditions, nevermind that everyone, including Chancellor Kane, agreed to it. The bunker her people were fixing was initially meant for the Sky People only until Echo found out about it, nvm keeping people in the dark about Preimfiya making it impossible for the Grounders to try to save themselves.

What Roan said was completely OOC for the character who, in the previous episode, said: "You grieve for Lexa, yet you've learned nothing from her. She was Trikru, but she rose above loyalty to clan. You tell yourself you have, too, the great Wanheda, the Commander of Death who says she wants to save everyone, yet builds a ship for herself, for her people." And regardless of how he momentarily saw her as rising above tribalism, he's clearly back to thinking she hasn't in 4x10.

 

 

11 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

I wasn't angry at the writers for having Clarke take the bunker. Considering the way the 12 clans have acted since Lexa died, I can see her believing this is the only pragmatic choice for saving some of humanity. What I was angry about was the way the show framed it. "Oh, the Grounders finally found a way to work together but Clarke has wrecked that". That's the antithesis of Clarke's character and it was designed solely for her to come into conflict with Bellamy. Basically, this entire plotline is so Bellamy can regain some of the high ground in their relationship to undo the damage done by last season. And seriously? Fuck that!

Even as someone who's an OTP Bellarke shipper, their relationship is not the point of the show.

I don't even want to start on the litany of contrivances that led to this point, up to and including the silly overwhelming existential threat of the "radiation wave". If the writers have to threaten the entire of humanity to get Clarke to compromise her ethics, then it's the premise of the season that's wrong.

 

How have the 12 clans acted? Ice Nation are assholes as always, but what did the other clans do wrong? Luna donated her blood and bone marrow, Tree Kru was slaughtered by Ice Nation, there's the anti-technology group whose reactions are understandable, but we know nothing about the other clans. 

Why does that surprise you? Clarke has never trusted anyone else to know better and only aligns herself with people who agree with her choice of actions. Clarke's pragmatism means that she refuses to deal with "what ifs", like when she let her own allies at TonDC be bombed because "what if Bellamy's found out". Clarke didn't trust Octavia to win the conclave, so she went and got the bunker for Sky Crew. Her actions in the latter half of the season have been foreshadowed since she started listening to Jaha of all people in 4x02. But of course we're gonna blame this entire plotline on Bellamy too. 

Clarke compromised her ethics a long time ago. It's only last season that she tried to force the chip on Luna without her consent. Wanted to from go village to village knowing that Alie would slaughter everyone they came into contact with for the chance of finding a Nightblood. You really expect moral choices from the character who said "maybe there are no good guys" and made peace with it? 

[piequinn35]

Wow, Roan and Luna are dead, and Clarke locked them inside leaving Octavia and Kane out, Clarke should have a great reason or else mommy and Belly will go nuts.

[dippydee]

10 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Was a genius second season really worth sitting through the rest of this dreck?

Normally I'd say yes purely for Raven but the way they've been ignoring her this season is just too much. 

[AudienceofOne]

3 hours ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

Really? The least tribalist?

Ah, I get it. After reading your post, your problem is not tribalism: it's ethnocentrism. You just used the wrong term. Clarke is the one who constantly wants to rise above tribalism, who constantly tries to get everybody to work together for the common good. She's the one who can see the big picture, the long term. It's why people often don't listen to her because most people are motivated by the short term and can only see the trees. Clarke sees the forest and often forgets the individual trees are there. That's the main reason she's so reliant on Bellamy. 

Your problem, if I've understood your post correctly, is that Clarke wants everybody to come together only on the terms of her own culture. 

I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment but going by some of the points in your post you do have quite a good basis for this analysis. If this were true, then Clarke's attempts to save everybody will never work because she expects them to act like her in the process. Based on this analysis, she and Octavia were always going to come to blows because Octavia has completely adopted Grounder culture. And so that conflict is really a cultural conflict between Skaikru and the Grounders. 

[Nay]

On 5/4/2017 at 11:16 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

 

Delay of game due to black rain -- turns out not so much, as it only really seems to affect Octavia.

 

There were several shots of Roan reacting to the rain, then shots of him with burns all over his face from said rain. The only one not suffering from it is Luna. 

[MostlyC]

Luna and Jasper should go camping together....

[SourK]

I was actually okay with this episode. Octavia has now been an honorary grounder and an improbably skilled warrior for long enough that I accept her as a tribute in the bunker games. At first, I LOL'd at Clarke screwing everyone over, because I thought it was her plan all along, but, after considering it, I think what was supposed to happen is that she honestly did care about humanity up until Roan told her to shove off, at which point she was like, "Fine, if that's how you want to be..."

The bitter irony, of course, is that Roan changed his mind after he'd had more time to think about it and Octavia managed to win the conclave and unite everyone at the end. But, by then it was too late.

It's always been true that Clarke can't stand leaving her fate in anyone else's hands, or letting other people use their own methods to solve a problem if she thinks she knows better. She has to be the leader and, if she's not, she goes around the leaders anyway and gets her own way. And now Octavia, who united the clans, and Cain, who is their actual Chancellor, are locked out of the bunker. And Jaha, who has the same I-Need-Followers personality flaw is Clarke's new best friend.

17 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

However, I thought it was ridiculous that all the Grounders suddenly decide to bury the hatchet once Octavia wins and suggest to share the bunker. Yeah, because that has worked so well in the past when Clarke suggested they'd all share the bunker.

I'm okay with this for the story reason that Octavia won the conclave and, since Night Blood isn't a requirement to be the Commander anymore, essentially became their leader. I think point is that she can unite them the way Lexa did -- or maybe better than Lexa did if Ice Nation also follows her. It's a little bit annoying that an outsider became queen of the grounders, but I'm also okay with it for the meta reason that the writers set up an expectation that Clarke would take Lexa's place by gaming the system somehow and then Octavia, who actually respected their customs and followed them, was the one who rose to power.

6 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Your problem, if I've understood your post correctly, is that Clarke wants everybody to come together only on the terms of her own culture. 

I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment but going by some of the points in your post you do have quite a good basis for this analysis. If this were true, then Clarke's attempts to save everybody will never work because she expects them to act like her in the process. Based on this analysis, she and Octavia were always going to come to blows because Octavia has completely adopted Grounder culture. And so that conflict is really a cultural conflict between Skaikru and the Grounders. 

Definitely the most interesting thing to me about this episode is the conflict it sets up between Clarke and Octavia and their respective worldviews and ways of interacting with people. I really hope they get some mileage out of this and don't resolve it right away -- and I'm pleasantly surprised by it because I didn't see it coming, but it makes complete sense.

[Nay]

I think the problem I have with the 'Octavia brought unity and Clarke screwed it up' mind set is that, as Kane whispers to her at the end, they still aren't all going to fit. The bunker can take 1200 (I think thats the number given) and Octavia just promised that she would let everyone in and they only have 3 days left. 

[thuganomics85]

Well, that was a bit unexpected.

Actually, all the stuff with The Conclave was pretty straightforward.  Was basically a Hunger Games/Battle Royale type battle, that Octavia manages to win, thanks to her wits and keeping a low profile.  And it had all the classics: the opponent who was a friend (or more), and she had to put him down (Ilian.)  The reluctant ally. (Roan)  And the front runner (Luna.)  But Octavia prevails!  Nicely done!  A pretty good episode Marie Avgeropoulos.

But it all ends up not mattering, because while all this is going on, Jaha and Clarke have formed an unholy alliance, and have snuck the majority of Sky Crew into the bunker, and locked everyone else out.  Keyword is most, because basically, they have left Bellamy and Kane to die with the rest of them.  Ouch!  And it also makes Clarke's final words to Bellamy about how Octavia needs him really sound hollow now.  Granted, I really don't have that much sympathy for him after all he's done, but every time I think Clarke's gone stone cold, she does something even crazier.  It's interesting that she used to rally against the likes of Jaha, but now she seems to be becoming him each episode.

Granted, there are still three episodes left, so I'm guessing this isn't going to work out.  Obviously, I doubt Bellamy will be cool with this, but I wonder how much everyone else knows and would be OK with.  In particular, would Abby let Kane die?

Good episode and decent twist, but I am at the point where I'm not sure I really like anyone anymore.  I guess this is on purpose; this world has made everyone go down dark paths; but it's hard to fully get invested in the outcome.  Hell, at times, it feels like death would actually be a relief for some of the characters.

[UNOSEZ]

I see everyone railing against Clarke and haha.. But nobody forced these people into the bunker  I feel they knew they were sneaking in and possibly locking some if not all out... They just want to survive 

[booboopbedoo]

Way too many battles this Season and very little storyline. 

becoming another game of thrones with all the sword play

[FurryFury]

Awesome ep, one of the best of the show. Loved the way Octavia developed - wasn't Clarke who, in the end, united the clans as the Commander - it was Octavia who from the very beginning was bridging the gap between the Grounders and the Sky people. And holy shit, it was brutal and unpredictable. Too bad for Roan, liked him since s3. Luna's development should have been better shown (one criticism), but it did make sense.

[kingshearte]

I have mixed feelings about Clarke's actions here. On one hand, yes, as long as there was a risk that Luna would win and shut everyone out, there's maybe some logic to ensuring that someone survives, and realistically, that's pretty much going to have to be your own people, because if working together was a viable option, we wouldn't be having the Bunker Games.

On the other hand,

Spoiler

you still have communication with those on the outside, and as long as that was the case, one could make the above argument for making preparations, but when you learn that things have not gone the worst possible way (all the more so because they have in fact gone the best possible way), there's no excuse for not aborting the plan and going with the original plan.

(Only a little spoilery, but it suddenly occurred to me that, having watched this and the following episode back to back, my lines of exactly what happened when are a bit blurred, and I think my "on the other hand" may be predicated on something that's not actually revealed until the next episode.)

Also, I'm a little sad that Roan is dead. I kinda dug him.

[Lady Calypso]

It was mildly surprising that Octavia ended up bringing both Grounders and Skaikru together, only because Octavia's always chosen Grounders over Skaikru. If it wasn't for her brother, she would have abandoned Skaikru ages ago, I think. I did enjoy the scene where Octavia started to bitch at Bellamy for trying to protect her, only to realize that his plan was smart in her keeping a low profile instead of going out, guns blazing. I think when Octavia's plot isn't around a man, I like her. Though...why did she look like she was proud of her brother for the first time ever? It's not like he ever tried to kill her or whatever. I was really confused why she was looking like this was the redeeming moment for her with Bellamy. Oh no, he cares about her and believed in her? That was never, ever the issue with the two of them, anyway. He always cared for her, and believed in her. Her issue with him was him betraying their trust with the Grounders and her believing that he killed Lincoln. Nothing in this episode rectified that, unless I'm misreading.

I really liked Clarke last season, even with the mess that was season 3. This season, Clarke's back to being irritating and annoying. She's always been about saving her people, but like I've mentioned, it's worse this season. It's not like she hasn't sacrificed so many lives before, but she hasn't done it with such cruelty (and sacrificing Octavia/Kane in the process). It's definitely on a similar level of Bellamy killing 300 Grounders last season, which....what, is this supposed to be some parallel to prove that these two belong together? They both feel bad, they both do what's best for their people, even through despicable acts...uh, because no, still hate the idea of them together. She really needs to own her actions instead of hiding behind her excuses. 

Coincidentally, though, the two people with the closest ties to Grounders are the ones who are unlucky enough to get into the bunker. I mean, they drugged Bellamy and got him into the bunker. They couldn't have waited to do the same for Kane and Octavia? Or, I guess they had to lock the bunker down before the Games ended. Still, Bellamy better hate Clarke. He didn't even get to say goodbye to her. It's like if Bellamy had sacrificed Abby. 

Also, Jaha ruins everything, as usual. Will this guy ever die? 

Well, bye Roan. You were better last season, but pretty to look at regardless. But of course we can't have an ally of Clarke's lasting too long. Also, bye Ilian. God, I hated Octavia hesitating, even when he got shot through the neck with an arrow by Echo. Jesus Christ, Octavia. You've known the guy for, like, a few weeks and slept with him a few times. Also, bye Luna. You were great with Raven, but sucked with everyone else. 

I did find The Bunker Games entertaining to watch, at least.