S05.E09: Visiting Hours

[truthaboutluv]

For the record, speaking for myself, I don't believe Romero and Norma getting together was out of left field. I thought it was more than obvious that the show was building to it throughout the seasons. What I question is this amazing, out of this world love story that's made him lose his ever loving mind. That's what I'm struggling to buy. And it's what's making his whole revenge plot against Norman seem less about his love for Norma and his loss, in my opinion and more just his hate for Norman.

[Evie]

2 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

For the record, speaking for myself, I don't believe Romero and Norma getting together was out of left field. I thought it was more than obvious that the show was building to it throughout the seasons. What I question is this amazing, out of this world love story that's made him lose his ever loving mind. That's what I'm struggling to buy. And it's what's making his whole revenge plot against Norman seem less about his love for Norma and his loss, in my opinion and more just his hate for Norman.

Same.  I always knew they were going to get together. I don't think it was out of left field at all, but I thought it went from Romero being kind of exasperated by Norma but having an underlying admiration/attraction to Romero being in love to Romero being a suicidal revenge machine really quickly.

[Bec]

Norma/Romero doesn't have to be an objectively great love story for this to work. I can buy that, for Romero, she was the woman he loved the most in his life. He was never Mr. Nice Guy in the first place, he was always Mr. Excessive Force, so I also buy that her death was enough to send him on a roaring rampage of revenge.

It could be said that vengeance is never an act of love for the one that's being avenged. It's always about making the person taking revenge feel better.

Maybe this doesn't feel like it adds up because Romero hasn't seemed to let his emotions rule him much. He's the kind of guy who likes having his brain in control and not his heart. But we've seen that control slip throughout the show. He has done irrational things because of his feelings before. This time he might have lost control for good. Last episode's coming up, so this could spell the end for him.

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Well they didn't mention it as one of Norman's charges but maybe because they had just found the body. However, I have to imagine that the medical examiners can tell Chick was only recently killed and Norman's been in jail. 

They also made a point of showing Chick give that cop his name at the hotel, after Norman was arrested. So even if the medical examiners couldn't estimate time of death they know it can't be Norman. I don't know if they'll have time to bring that up in only one more hour though.

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Forgot to mention, anyone else notice that Romero told the officers to get into his office? I thought that was a pretty clever slip of the tongue on the writers' part since he did used to be the Sheriff. 

I noticed that too, and I also thought it was clever. Most people would probably make a slip like that in their old workplace.

[raven]

53 minutes ago, Bec said:

It could be said that vengeance is never an act of love for the one that's being avenged. It's always about making the person taking revenge feel better.

I agree with this.  Romero knows that the last thing Norma would want is Norman dead.  I've liked Romero to varying degrees but he's never been a "good" man.  Norma seemed to bring out the best in him and Nestor and Vera had great overall chemistry, not just romantic; so for me, the relationship worked.   Who can forget Romero catching Norma in the tree, wearing a dress and heels?  Or when Norma's hiding on the dock and Romero shoots the guy that she thought SHE was going to kill and he dryly says "You can come out now, Norma".  LOL!

The only way out for Romero is death.  He's never been faced with Mother, and for him to have to deal with Norman (as Mother) calling him Alex, using Norma mannerisms...I don't think he'll be able to handle it.   I don't think he'll manage to kill Norman though; Dylan is still a wild card or the new sheriff could show up.

[Glade]

I loved Emma's line 'she belonged to the church of herself' about her narcissistic creep of a mother, who was so horrible that she wound up looking up to Norma (despite the fact that Norma cared more about her secrets and was like 'oh well, sorry to see you go bye then' when Emma had that breakdown a few seasons ago saying she thought of her like family but was always shut out.)  I think everyone remembers Norma more then a bit better then she actually was in life.   

Madeline...sounds like she is still in denial about her husband, and perhaps has given in to wishful thinking that 'maybe he never had an affair at all, it was just something that the devious mastermind Norman came up with!'  And it sounds like she never told the sheriff that in fact she came on to Norman, not the other way around.  And actually, it was Sam who brought Norman into their life by showing up at the hotel with his mistress.  So...whatever, I'm team Dylan, someone who rightfully still cares about his brother who was so much more messed up then he was by their abusive childhood.  I'm glad that he and Emma can still find some compassion for real Norman. 

I definitely side with real Norman (who is apparently the only one that will be able to find Norma's body, since mother stepped aside for that) against Asshole Romero, and always have.  It is true that their romance lasted 2 weeks and in that two weeks was one hell of a bumpy ride.  I wasn't expecting this showdown to come before the endless wrenches appear in Norman's court case.  Next week should be riveting.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Glade

[Peanut6711]

8 hours ago, smorbie said:

Someone said earlier that he was acting like he was in a daze.  Don't you think you would be?

No. I would never put anyone above my spouse and children.  And after the way Norma and Norman often treated Dylan, it shouldn't even be a hard decision who should receive his utter support and devotion.  I think Dylan needs to get his shit together so he doesn't lose the only real family he has.  While it's understandable that he play a bit of a "what if" game, he wouldn't have to run down that line of thinking too long to realize that his power and influence over the Norman situation was limited.  Even if Dylan would have bypassed Norma like the new highway did their motel, and tried to work with Romero, even via long distance, Romero's days as sheriff were numbered.  But even if Romero would have remained sheriff and tried to work w/in the law to bring Norman to justice and/or get him help, there was no proof (ie no body) for Emma's mother. Given her history, she would have just gone down as a possible missing person. Ironically, it took Romero going to jail and sending his guy (Blackwell?) after Norman for Blackwell's disappearance, given that he was a parolee and in the system, to show up on the new sheriff's radar and ultimately for the lake to be searched.  

[ganesh]

23 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

At this point Romero and Norman are two sides of the same coin. Their love for Norma turned into a dark twisted obsession.

That works for me. It's not like Romero was ever on the up and up anyway.

Wouldn't the lawyer be able to make somewhat of a case that scrawny Norman, as we've said here, wouldn't have been able to overpower someone bigger and more fit like Sam and kill him? Then drag that body through the woods and lift it into a well. 

I mean, the insanity defense is an option, but forcing a mistrial is another too. 

Granted we have the matter of the confession, but Madeline lied to the police about coming on to Norman, and a good enough lawyer should be able to argue that a distraught Norman meant "kill" figuratively because Norman spilled the beans about the affair and "killed" their marriage. 

[ganesh]

17 hours ago, BooBear said:

First Dylan did try to get Norman help and away from Norma several times but I also don't think he knew that his brother was killing people -- until Emma's mom. Also he had no evidence.  When he left he also thought Norman was in treatment. 

Also, Norma froze Dylan out a lot when he did try to bring it up. He was barely a member of the family, and I can't see how it's totally on him to fix everything. I mean, if he did actually see Norman kill someone ok, but Norman essentially told him to get lost. 

[Fable]

6 hours ago, Bec said:

Norma/Romero doesn't have to be an objectively great love story for this to work. I can buy that, for Romero, she was the woman he loved the most in his life. He was never Mr. Nice Guy in the first place, he was always Mr. Excessive Force, so I also buy that her death was enough to send him on a roaring rampage of revenge.

It could be said that vengeance is never an act of love for the one that's being avenged. It's always about making the person taking revenge feel better.

Maybe this doesn't feel like it adds up because Romero hasn't seemed to let his emotions rule him much. He's the kind of guy who likes having his brain in control and not his heart. But we've seen that control slip throughout the show. He has done irrational things because of his feelings before. This time he might have lost control for good. Last episode's coming up, so this could spell the end for him.

Romero is probably a person who is hard to get close to.  It’s obvious that Norma was the first person, at least in a long while, who felt near and dear to his heart.  He romanticized her to the point of obsession, and he believes Norman stole that from him.  I believe he thought Norma was his chance at love and that he could save Norma from herself, and by extension Norman.  What he didn’t realize was that Norman would never play second fiddle.  My take is that his anger toward Norman is really because he knew, deep down, he could not possibly be Norma’s true love while Norman was in her life

[unoiamacutie]

Anyone realize that Norman called Romero Alex? Usually he would call him sheriff or Romero, but because he's Mother, he called him Alex. I noticed it before, but I forgot to mention it.

[Peanut6711]

On 4/18/2017 at 0:37 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Like the scenes of all the cops and forensic teams going over the hotel and house, and the one lady finding the suitcase, only for the guy to be all "Hey, hate to rain on anybody's parade, but I just found a creepy shrine with a dead Chick in it!"  I bet those folks never knew they were going to deal with this kind of craziness when they went to work in the sleepy little town of White Pines Bay!

lol That was a good scene. I'd love to get one of the new sheriff trying to make sense of why Norman had his own personal biographer in the basement writing his memoirs.

[smorbie]

19 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I like Romero.  However, at this point, I think the best thing for him is to die because he knows there's no way out for him at this point.  So I'm fine with him dying.

 

I believe that is his intention.  Whatever people think of the Norma/Alex romance, he did love her, and he had for a long time. I think he's done with life.  He wants to die and be with her. But, he is bound and determined to take Norman with him.

I'm not a shipper; I'm really not.  I did think they were sweet together, but I don't think there's any way the two were ever going to live happily ever after.  Norma was too damaged and even if Norman hadn't been bat-crap crazy, he would have always been between them.  Always.

3 hours ago, unoiamacutie said:

Anyone realize that Norman called Romero Alex? Usually he would call him sheriff or Romero, but because he's Mother, he called him Alex. I noticed it before, but I forgot to mention it.

I did not catch great.  Brilliant touch! And good catch.

[unoiamacutie]

2 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

lol That was a good scene. I'd love to get one of the new sheriff trying to make sense of why Norman had his own personal biographer in the basement writing his memoirs.

When you put it that way it sounds not only ridiculous but hilarious if she actually thought that. ??

[OSM Mom]

I feel really stupid, because I didn't realize until I read it here, that Romero is driving Chicks car. Duh. 

This series has been so good! I'm seriously sad to see it end. And somehow, I hope that Dylan and Emma can make up and go back to Seattle and raise Katie and be happy. 

[ganesh]

I missed the car too, but that's why I participate in this site, to pick up on something I might have missed. I knew the car wasn't Romero's because he couldn't find the gas tank, but I didn't put it together until Norman asked where he got the car, and then I was like, oh wait. 

[DonitsYum]

Wow, there will be so much to wrap up next week.  How will they do it all?  Obviously, there isn't going to be a long, drawn out trial (Romero kidnapping Norman ensured that). Until that happened, I was just saying "the hospital would have the (missing) psychiatrist's session notes somewhere, which would prove multiple personalities.  That should get him acquitted."   If this ends at the Motel/House, how will they get in there?  The place is crawling with cops.

I think the scene with Emma and Norma(n) was one of the top 3 in this entire series.  I watched it twice, the second time, I closed my eyes and listened to the switch between Freddie and Vera - it's really hard to tell who is speaking because he has adapted her speech mannerisms so well.  When she asked to speak with "Norman", it almost looked like "Norma" was going to let it happen.  I had hoped Emma would then run back to Dylan at the motel and  be like "ok, I get it now.  Let's help him."

I still couldn't pick up the relationship between Romero and his lady friend who healed him...who was she?  Had we seen her before this season?  She really wanted him to run off with her.

What an ending this will be!

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I still couldn't pick up the relationship between Romero and his lady friend who healed him...who was she?  Had we seen her before this season?  She really wanted him to run off with her.

I think she was either the sister of the guy used to own the motel and raped Norma or the sister of the deputy that Dylan killed ( and Romero said he killed) that was put in Norma's bed.

[Black Knight]

On 4/18/2017 at 5:58 AM, Ohwell said:

I cracked up when the police officers shoved Norman out of the door so that Romero could have him.

Me too. It was the smug look on Norman's face as he told Romero that he was staying put that made it so very funny when he was then shoved out.

The show has been emphasizing "he's mentally ill, not evil," so he's stayed sympathetic to me, but man oh man, Freddie Highmore has this terrifically smug expression that, whenever he rolls it out, just makes me want to smack Norman. So in the moment, I wasn't bothered by the cops shoving him out, or Romero choking him. I don't think we'll be seeing smug Norman at any point in the finale, though - well, unless he somehow manages to avoid both death and either type of imprisonment he's currently faced with.

I really wish Mother had let Norman speak to Emma for a minute. I get why she didn't; the safe assumption is that all conversations are being recorded, and she couldn't afford to have Norman say anything that would incriminate him.

And yes, this did feel like it for Emma, except possibly a brief appearance in an epilogue-type scene. The way her final scene with Dylan ended - with her hesitating for a few seconds at the door - left me even more concerned that he's going to die and then she will have to live with the regret that she didn't turn around at the door as she'd been thinking of doing. But I'm glad Olivia Cooke got this showcase episode (and I can't wait to see her in Ready Player One) as her for-all-intents-and-purposes farewell, as she's not really had much to do since S3.

[smorbie]

10 hours ago, unoiamacutie said:

Anyone realize that Norman called Romero Alex? Usually he would call him sheriff or Romero, but because he's Mother, he called him Alex. I noticed it before, but I forgot to mention it.

I did not catch great.  Brilliant touch! And good catch.

[Bec]

2 hours ago, DonitsYum said:

I still couldn't pick up the relationship between Romero and his lady friend who healed him...who was she?  Had we seen her before this season?  She really wanted him to run off with her.

That's Keith Summers' sister Maggie Summers. She and her brother were childhood friends with Romero. She was only in two short scenes in season 1.

14 hours ago, Fable said:

My take is that his anger toward Norman is really because he knew, deep down, he could not possibly be Norma’s true love while Norman was in her life

Yeah, this is pretty much a classic tale of two dudes fighting over a woman. With the extra twist that one of the dudes is her son and sometimes takes on her persona.

I can't wait to see how Romero will react when he realises Norman is "Norma". There has to be a scene like that, right? I bet that's the thing that will kill Romero. He'll get super distracted by that and drop his guard.

[smorbie]

21 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

For the record, speaking for myself, I don't believe Romero and Norma getting together was out of left field. I thought it was more than obvious that the show was building to it throughout the seasons. What I question is this amazing, out of this world love story that's made him lose his ever loving mind. That's what I'm struggling to buy. And it's what's making his whole revenge plot against Norman seem less about his love for Norma and his loss, in my opinion and more just his hate for Norman.

Romero was a very closed-off man.  I doubt he ever loved anyone except his mother before Norma came along.  And I think he did everything in his power not to fall in love with her.

But the thing about Norma is that was WAS so lovable.  She was sweet and kind and thoughtful.  But, she inherited a lot of troublesome genes and was carrying more than anyone's share of baggage.  Not to mention that she did have an unhealthy relationship with Norman.  

I can see how it started.  She was in a nightmarish marriage, one she felt she had to make work because of the way it came to be.  She had one son who blamed her for divorcing his father, hated his stepfather, and pushed her away with all his might.

And then there was Norman.  He was so much like her and was this well of unconditional love and adoration.  Like her he was sweet and kind and good.  And they were ALL THEY HAD.  There was probably no other way for their characters to develop than the way it did.

Nevertheless, all of those things as well as Romero's hard-scrabble life would have made it impossible for the two of them to ever have a long, happy life together.  I just don't think it was possible.

What I do this is possible, though, is that Romero seized upon this little nugget of happiness he had and couldn't let it go.  And when she died, she took his happiness and his hopes for their reconciliation with her.  Knowing that his chance for happiness is gone and that Norman took it all away, spoiled, pampered, always excused Norman would be killing him on his own.  

The fact that his world ended and he wound up in prison for what really does seem like a DEA vendetta at the same time he was dealing with the aftermath of Norman's death, has probably made him a very sick, unstable person.

So, at this point, no it's not about Norman anymore, and I'm glad he realizes that.  It's about Norman.  And Norman has to die.

[Stringey]

6 hours ago, smorbie said:

Romero was a very closed-off man.  I doubt he ever loved anyone except his mother before Norma came along.  And I think he did everything in his power not to fall in love with her.

But the thing about Norma is that was WAS so lovable.  She was sweet and kind and thoughtful.  But, she inherited a lot of troublesome genes and was carrying more than anyone's share of baggage.  Not to mention that she did have an unhealthy relationship with Norman.  

I can see how it started.  She was in a nightmarish marriage, one she felt she had to make work because of the way it came to be.  She had one son who blamed her for divorcing his father, hated his stepfather, and pushed her away with all his might.

And then there was Norman.  He was so much like her and was this well of unconditional love and adoration.  Like her he was sweet and kind and good.  And they were ALL THEY HAD.  There was probably no other way for their characters to develop than the way it did.

Nevertheless, all of those things as well as Romero's hard-scrabble life would have made it impossible for the two of them to ever have a long, happy life together.  I just don't think it was possible.

What I do this is possible, though, is that Romero seized upon this little nugget of happiness he had and couldn't let it go.  And when she died, she took his happiness and his hopes for their reconciliation with her.  Knowing that his chance for happiness is gone and that Norman took it all away, spoiled, pampered, always excused Norman would be killing him on his own.  

The fact that his world ended and he wound up in prison for what really does seem like a DEA vendetta at the same time he was dealing with the aftermath of Norman's death, has probably made him a very sick, unstable person.

So, at this point, no it's not about Norman anymore, and I'm glad he realizes that.  It's about Norman.  And Norman has to die.

I can see how people can get pushed to the breaking point. I heard a saying once before that makes sense. When someone loses everything they lose it. With your main source of happiness gone and nothing left to look forward to it makes it easy for people to lose their mind. I don't mean lose their mind the way Norman did I mean lose it by losing their sense of morality. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by Stringey

[kieyra]

On 4/18/2017 at 8:45 AM, Lostinthehouse said:

The placement of the song "Crimson and Clover" was perfect:  The crimson red and blazing orange as Emma's mother's body is consumed by the flames of cremation, then the clover green of the woods where Emma scattered her ashes.  It truly was a thing of poetic beauty.

I loved that whole sequence. It was beautiful.

That said ...

Would they really let her down there in the crematorium? I just had a relative cremated and all I interacted with were some very kind people in a very nice office. I guess maybe if someone requested it?

I liked the Wednesday Addams vibe of the female funeral director, though.

[smorbie]

8 hours ago, Stringey said:

I can see how people can get pushed to the breaking point. I heard a saying once before that makes sense. When someone loses everything they lose it. With your main source of happiness gone and nothing left to look forward to it makes it easy for people to lose their mind. I don't mean lose their mind the way Norman did I mean lose it by losing their sense of morality. 

I gotcha.  And you can see it in Romero.  He's a walking ghost already.  He just wants it over.  But he wants to be sure Norman goes first.

7 hours ago, kieyra said:

I loved that whole sequence. It was beautiful.

That said ...

Would they really let her down there in the crematorium? I just had a relative cremated and all I interacted with were some very kind people in a very nice office. I guess maybe if someone requested it?

I liked the Wednesday Addams vibe of the female funeral director, though.

She was introduced last year when Norma died.  I think they will let people view the cremation.  I've heard of it, but never seen it, myself.

[smorbie]

20 hours ago, ganesh said:

I missed the car too, but that's why I participate in this site, to pick up on something I might have missed. I knew the car wasn't Romero's because he couldn't find the gas tank, but I didn't put it together until Norman asked where he got the car, and then I was like, oh wait. 

How did he know the PIN number? And whose card was that?

Maggie is Keith Summers' sister.  He was the former owner of the motel.  We met him when he raped Norma and that incident introduced her to Alex Romero and Deputy Shelby.

[smorbie]

On 4/18/2017 at 10:48 PM, ganesh said:

 

Granted we have the matter of the confession, but Madeline lied to the police about coming on to Norman, and a good enough lawyer should be able to argue that a distraught Norman meant "kill" figuratively because Norman spilled the beans about the affair and "killed" their marriage. 

Maybe she did and maybe she didn't.  We have no way of knowing how much of that actually occurred and how much Norman hallucinated.  He is the most unreliable of narrator as everything we see could be things he's dreamt up.

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

The show has been emphasizing "he's mentally ill, not evil," so he's stayed sympathetic to me, but man oh man, Freddie Highmore has this terrifically smug expression that, whenever he rolls it out, just makes me want to smack Norman.

The thing is though, the smug expression only appears when he's Mother, which is one of the biggest tells when Mother has taken over. Considering they hadn't been in any contact for two years, it was endearing that Emma immediately picked up on that. There are so many obvious little things that make it obvious when Norman is not Norman. Real Norman, especially after he confessed to killing Sam was teary, apologetic and small in stature.

The same way he looked when he accidentally killed Cody's dad. I too can't stand Mother's smug personality but then I always remember the scared, lonely and confused kid that still exists somewhere in him. Although that person is disappearing the more Mother takes control. I will be fine with Norman dying because again really, what life can Norman even have anymore? I'm just not one who's going to get any great satisfaction watching Romero choke him and shoot him to death. 

YMMV, I just don't feel like the story I watched unfold for five seasons built to that being the satisfying end. That is, the story of the tragic Bates family that started with the mental illness of Norma and Caleb's parents that ultimately led to an incestuous relationship between Norma and Caleb and later his raping her, Norma's tragedies leading to her own mental issues that manifested in not so great parenting towards both Dylan and Norman and then of course ultimately Norman's own madness. I just don't feel a satisfying end to that story is watching Norman be killed by someone Norma had a half a second relationship with that she was willing to walk away from for said Norman. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[ganesh]

I don't think that's going to happen though. 

[truthaboutluv]

36 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I don't think that's going to happen though. 

Neither do I. I was simply saying why I am not rooting for it to happen that way. 

[Mick Lady]

riverheightsnancy, off topic, but I have all the books! You're the rivertheightsnancy, right?    

I'm old, 58, so these books are a very dear memory for me!                                      

[Virtual]

On April 18, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Bec said:

Dylan has sure tried and tried to get Norman help throughout this series. All while he had plenty of his own problems to deal with. He barely saved himself, it's asking a bit much for him to save everyone else. He sure wishes he could save everyone - he blames himself for far more than he should. I wouldn't expect people like Madeleine to know this, though. 

I agree regarding Dylan and how he has tried to get Norman help throughout the series. Yeah, it wasn't the best move just up and leaving Norma and Norman last season, but considering Dylan had warned Norma repeatedly about Norman being dangerous and at the end Norma was just dismissing everything Dylan said, I can't blame Dylan too much for moving on with his life. He probably figured Norman at least had a chance to not crumble as long as he was still seeing Dr. Edwards and had Norma around to look out for him. Notice he rushed right back once he found out Norma was dead. The lawyer was spot on with her comments about Dylan being the heart and soul of Norman's connection to humanity. Emma fits that too, and after her experience when she encountered Norman in this episode, I think she'll be alongside Dylan trying to help Norman next week.

Madeleine doesn't know Dylan's relationship with Norman and just assumes that Dylan knew him well his whole life. They didn't have a good relationship with each other until Norma and Norman moved to White Pine Bay and Dylan followed. And even then at first, Dylan had angst toward Norma for having an affair on the guy he thought was his dad with Norman's father. Dylan and Norman have a great relationship now, but it wasn't that way until episode 1x03 when Dylan first tried making him realize that the way Norma was raising him was unhealthy. Norman was 17 at that time and Dylan was 21.

[Gizmo321]

I also think the Crimson and Clover montage with Emma was stellar. 

One of the things I love about this show is that a group of people from AfterBuzz TV (viewable on youtube) get together every week to discuss the episode blow by blow. This week they mentioned the perfect ash scattering scene. There was no *blow back* from a shift in the wind.

It made me wonder....were the ashes CGI? Or were there multiple takes until there was a perfect scatter with no blow back?

With only one episode left I wonder if ti will come to light that Norman also did in Bradley Martin and his former therapist who's been missing and presumed dead for a year or so.

I worry that the despondent Dylan we see this week may be so lost next week that he does himself in. The AfterBuzz crew raise a rather interesting prediction where Dylan ...after losing Emma and their daughter, along with Norma and Norman...has nowhere else to go but the house and motel. And he starts to see Norma around the house...and in essence becomes the new Norman. Creepy thought but would not surprise me if they went this route.

[luna1122]

6 hours ago, Gizmo321 said:

 

I worry that the despondent Dylan we see this week may be so lost next week that he does himself in. The AfterBuzz crew raise a rather interesting prediction where Dylan ...after losing Emma and their daughter, along with Norma and Norman...has nowhere else to go but the house and motel. And he starts to see Norma around the house...and in essence becomes the new Norman. Creepy thought but would not surprise me if they went this route.

I would hate that so very much. Also, even if Dylan loses Emma, no reason he'd lose his daughter. Emma wouldn't do that to either of them, I don't think. Ugh, hate this theory.

[truthaboutluv]

10 hours ago, Gizmo321 said:

With only one episode left I wonder if ti will come to light that Norman also did in Bradley Martin and his former therapist who's been missing and presumed dead for a year or so.

Bradley will be difficult because everyone already thought she was dead. The only person who knew she was alive was Dylan and he wasn't sure that Norman wasn't confused when he told Norma he was leaving with Bradley because as he hilariously said to Norma during that conversation, "Norman's always seeing shit that's not there". And then they later found him after some guy knocked him out in a field while he was confused and erratic.

So unless they find Bradley's body, I don't think anyone will really know that Norman killed her since everyone thought she was long dead. I can definitely see them suspecting him of the former therapist's disappearance, once the medical records confirm that he was Norman's doctor. Of course they'd need to find his body though you can still charge a person with murder without a body. It's just harder to prove. 

10 hours ago, Gizmo321 said:

I worry that the despondent Dylan we see this week may be so lost next week that he does himself in. The AfterBuzz crew raise a rather interesting prediction where Dylan ...after losing Emma and their daughter, along with Norma and Norman...has nowhere else to go but the house and motel. And he starts to see Norma around the house...and in essence becomes the new Norman. Creepy thought but would not surprise me if they went this route.

As brilliantly dramatic as that would be, I can't buy it. For one, Dylan's not crazy and has never been crazy. Who Norman became is due to the fact that he has and has had for very long time, serious mental issues, starting with his blackouts. Dylan's never been mentally ill. Also, I agree with the above that I don't see Emma taking the baby away from Dylan. She didn't seem to be in that frame of mind in my opinion.

In other words I didn't get the feeling she hated Dylan or was even truly angry at him per se. I mean she still cuddled up with him after she got back from taking care of her mother's body. I just think she's emotionally struggling with being with a man whose brother murdered her mother and understandably so. That has to weigh heavily on someone. Of course she knows it's not Dylan's fault but it's hard to separate the situation. So I think Emma's struggle is being with Dylan but I don't think that has anything to do with him being a father to their daughter. 

Edited April 21, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[peacheslatour]

No way would Emma try to take the baby from Dylan. She knows how screwed up his family is/was. They are his family now and I doubt she would break that up. She just needed to get out of Dodge because of the awfulness of what happened there and she wanted to get back to her kid. She will be waiting for Dylan  if he makes it out of there.

[LocimusPrime]

On 4/18/2017 at 10:44 AM, Stringey said:

But it is not Norman that has killed people on purpose with the exception of Sam Loomis. Except for that murder of sam Norman has killed people unknowingly because of his illness.

I don't care what his illness is. Child rapists say they illnesses too, it doesn't make their crimes less heinous or evil to me.

[Complexity]

6 minutes ago, LocimusPrime said:

I don't care what his illness is. Child rapists say they illnesses too, it doesn't make their crimes less heinous or evil to me.

Either my memory is failing me or I didn't pay close enough attention (both are very likely), but I can't think of any child rape in the show.

Who was the rapist and who was the child?

Edited April 21, 2017 by Complexity
typo

[sigmaforce86]

I was thinking how they could pin all the murders on Romero - most of them happened before he went to prison, Sam was after he escaped and the police are going to realize that Chick was killed after Norman was arrested.  With him kidnapping Norman it seals his fate, then the lawyer just has to argue that Norman's pre-existing illness combined with the loss of his mother and the stress of realizing his step-father was a killer caused him to confess to something he didn't do.  I tried to put it all together neatly so the scenario would work then I realized - doing this is actually rooting for Norman to go free and get back to his hotel and home as an innocent man.  I don't know if it's Freddie's acting and how good the the rest of the cast is or the writers or a combination but I have to give great credit to a show that can make us want to see the bad guy get away with it even when we know that's wrong.

What I can't see is a way out for Dylan - even if Norman does go free, even if Romero takes the blame; how does Dylan stay alive?  He can't interfere in Norman's life again but I can't see him going back to Emma, leaving Norman alone and acting like none of it ever happened either.   

[truthaboutluv]

The only thing that puts a dent in that scenario is Jim Blackwell's murder. Romero was still in jail when Jim was murdered.

[BooBear]

5 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

I was thinking how they could pin all the murders on Romero -

I would balk if that happened. Wasn't Chick working on documenting the craziness of Norman? Not sure who has that evidence but... that clearly implicates Norman and also makes it clear he is insane.  Also Jim Blackwell's murder. 

I just feel like the natural ending is that Norman fights Norma off and gets help and does plead guilty by reason of insanity. Dylan moves on with his life and visits Norman from time to time and in 10 years when everyone involved in this show has done all the other stuff they want... A&E green lights a show about Norman getting out of the crazy house and trying to stay sane. Like Psycho II. 

[Timetoread]

Just wanted to get in these thoughts before the last episode. *sniff*

I bristled at everybody being mad at Dylan.  It was Dylan from the start who picked up on and spoke up about Norman's growing sickness.  But he was fighting a losing battle - against Norma who simply would not accept the horrible truth about Norman.  He had no power.  When Norman was still a minor, Norma was his legal guardian.  And when he became an adult, Dylan was basically nobody as far as the law is concerned.  Unless he showed up as a witness to a crime, a confession, or workable evidence, there was not much he could do to have Norman jailed, and he did what he could to have him institutionalized.  Norman signed himself out of the institution. So it's not fair for Madeline to blame Dylan.  He knew.  He tried.  It still didn't work.

Emma's railing got on my nerves.  Not that I didn't understand her grief and anger.  The self righteousness of it rubbed me the wrong way.  What did she expect from Dylan?  When she raged, "Your brother killed my mother!"  I wanted Dylan to quietly say, "I know how you feel, he killed mine too."  But Dylan is not wrong to feel protective toward Norman.  In even the most dysfunctional families the pull of loyalty to blood is very powerful.  His description to the lawyer summed it up - Norman is not evil, he is crazy.  Norman is, to Dylan, another victim.  Also he did not choose Norman over Emma, I was disappointed that Emma didn't choose her husband who is sorting through this mess by himself, talking to the police, advocating for Norman, paying for Norman's defense and yes, mourning his own mother.  Emma's pain did not trump his, in my book.  I think that they will be okay because one of Emma's few flaws is that she takes a little information and runs a mile with it.  It is not until she has more of the story that she backs up.  She felt only her own grief and pain.  But when she looked at Norman in the cell.  She saw a monster but she didn't see the Norman she knew and loved.  This was somebody else.  I think she will understand Dylan's POV.  He is protecting/mourning for the Norman they both knew and loved.  Also I think protecting Norman is Dylan's way to honor Norma.  What she would have wanted.  They had a complex and often contentious relationship.  But we were showed many times and in many ways that Dylan and Norma loved each other very much and one can only wistfully dream of the mending that could have taken place within the context of Norman put safely away, Norma in a healthy romantic relationship, and Dylan presenting her a daughter in law (who she already loved) and a grandbaby.  Dylan is not to blame.  Norman is.

Give it to Freddie, he nailed it.  One thing that struck me about Mother is how malevolent she is.  Real Norma would have never EVER killed Dylan, even to save Norman.  Kick him out of the house, yes.  Yell and scream at him, yes.  Never kill him.  Part of Norman's rage IS that he had to share her heart with Dylan.  Notice that Norman loves Dylan but Mother does not.  Interesting.  And knowing that Mother is a construct - or rather a costume that Norman's psyche wears, you realize that it is Norman himself who is so full of hate and maliciousness.  We want to make a separation but really there isn't. 

One last thing.  I loved seeing the return of Sherriff Romero.  He was never a good guy.  He was always a killer.  I do believe that he loved Norma though.  Like Norman, he became dependent on how she made him feel - like he wasn't a bad guy.  Interestingly enough, the reason in the end I feel that this was Dylan's "narration" is that of all the men in Norma's life, Dylan was the only one who didn't have her on an idealized pedestal.  For the other men she was a sin eater.  For Dylan, she was a damaged, kooky, infuriating woman who was also his mother.  It is fitting for this show that he be her legacy, not Norman - as had been the case from the movies.

[Timetoread]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 9:39 AM, smorbie said:

I believe that is his intention.  Whatever people think of the Norma/Alex romance, he did love her, and he had for a long time. I think he's done with life.  He wants to die and be with her. But, he is bound and determined to take Norman with him.

I'm not a shipper; I'm really not.  I did think they were sweet together, but I don't think there's any way the two were ever going to live happily ever after.  Norma was too damaged and even if Norman hadn't been bat-crap crazy, he would have always been between them.  Always.

For me the implication was that if the outside world did not exist that they could have lived happily ever after.  Romero accepted the worst of Norma's damage - the incest/rape by her brother.  His little murderous streak was mostly fine by her because half of his kills in this show were in protection of her and her boys.  They had the love and they were compatible.  He was strong and she was nurturing.  But there WAS the real world.  His crimes were catching up with him and his jailing had nothing to do with Norman.  She had Norman and was consumed by him.  Definitely star crossed.

BTW your post about how sweet Norma was warmed my heart because I actually miss REAL Norma.  She was very sweet and didn't deserve the life she got.  It really pains me, seeing a rampaging Romero, that she finally got a man who loved her in the way she wanted and needed to be loved and that it didn't last.  That SHE didn't last. :(

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

I was thinking how they could pin all the murders on Romero - most of them happened before he went to prison, Sam was after he escaped and the police are going to realize that Chick was killed after Norman was arrested.  With him kidnapping Norman it seals his fate, then the lawyer just has to argue that Norman's pre-existing illness combined with the loss of his mother and the stress of realizing his step-father was a killer caused him to confess to something he didn't do.

I was thinking the same thing except for the guy that Romero hired to kill Norman, but Norman could argue it was self defense, since, you know, the guy was hired to literally kill him. Why cover it up? He was alone and scared.

1 hour ago, BooBear said:

Wasn't Chick working on documenting the craziness of Norman?

It was fiction? I don't know if the manuscript would hold much weight under a good lawyer with the person who wrote it being dead.  Although, they found Loomis where Norman said, didn't they? 

I'm still assuming Norman "gets away with it" and doesn't end up in the institution so I work back from there. 

[Complexity]

13 minutes ago, ganesh said:

It was fiction? I don't know if the manuscript would hold much weight under a good lawyer with the person who wrote it being dead.

Remember that Chick had those tape recordings.

[ganesh]

Yeah I forgot. 

[Stringey]

Well we got the final episode of the series coming up and I hope it leaves an impression.  I want to be wowed. Also who else follows Bates motel on Facebook. Something appeared on my timeline that said Freddie highmore reportedly said the finale is the saddest and funniest episode of the series that he did. This makes me think maybe at the end we might see Norman die and be in his version of the happy afterlife with real Norma.  Anyway it should be interesting if any of us comes close to have guessed the finale. There were a lot of different possible endings that were talked about on this site I am guessing someone comes close to the ending we see.

[Complexity]

I really hope they don't kill Norma in the end.

There is already a very strong stigma against people with mental health problems. Statistically, they are less likely to be violent and are more likely to be the victim of violence, but people are still scared of the unknown so they fear them.

Having Norman killed in the end only serves to add to that erroneous stigma. The mentally ill have enough problems already without further glorifying the idea that they don't deserve to live because of their mental illness.

Norman should be treated, not killed.

[Timetoread]

I've been wondering if this whole thing is just a fantasy in Norman's mind.  There is no coming back from where we are now - bodies have been found, the police are involved.  There is no undoing it to the point that he could just return to running The Bates Motel.  I've been wondering if really Mother killed Marion Crane and not Sam Loomis, just as in the movie, and Mother is letting Norman seeing the futility of trying to do the "right" thing by calling the police and involving other people.  And I worry, in my wondering, if his last pre-cannon act was to kill his brother Dylan and make him disappear.

[smorbie]

5 hours ago, Timetoread said:

For me the implication was that if the outside world did not exist that they could have lived happily ever after.  Romero accepted the worst of Norma's damage - the incest/rape by her brother.  His little murderous streak was mostly fine by her because half of his kills in this show were in protection of her and her boys.  They had the love and they were compatible.  He was strong and she was nurturing.  But there WAS the real world.  His crimes were catching up with him and his jailing had nothing to do with Norman.  She had Norman and was consumed by him.  Definitely star crossed.

BTW your post about how sweet Norma was warmed my heart because I actually miss REAL Norma.  She was very sweet and didn't deserve the life she got.  It really pains me, seeing a rampaging Romero, that she finally got a man who loved her in the way she wanted and needed to be loved and that it didn't last.  That SHE didn't last. :(

I miss her, too.  She'd had such a hard life and there was a hard shell there, but she was sweet to the core.