Bosch: Legacy - General Discussion

[paigow]

One of the dirty cops looks like Jim from The Newsroom and is whiny like him...

[SnapHappy]

Harry looks VERY nice in a suit, I must say.  But Titus is totally my flavor of eye candy, so.....*LOL*

Maddie's attitude is just so coarse and harsh, especially towards Harry.  When he mentioned he was bothered by hearing about Maddie's promotion to CRU from Mank, she basically said "Screw it, I didn't want to hear you express concern for my welfare".  

And Vasquez really seems to be intense about Maddie's actions.  I know she was her TO, but it almost feels like a romantic interest in her.  Just an off vibe for me.  

 

[Raja]

19 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

And Vasquez really seems to be intense about Maddie's actions.  I know she was her TO, but it almost feels like a romantic interest in her.  Just an off vibe for me.  

It played as typical code of silence actions to me. Since they were plain clothes without the body cameras she didn't have to tell the whole truth in the use of force report. But then she doesn't want to be put in that position again either.

[SnapHappy]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

It played as typical code of silence actions to me. Since they were plain clothes without the body cameras she didn't have to tell the whole truth in the use of force report. But then she doesn't want to be put in that position again either.

Sure, that was a big part of it.  And very understandable, as Maddie's TO, her actions reflect back on Vasquez. 

Her taking Maddie home to dinner was most likely to just monitor Maddie's emotional state after the rundown, since everybody knows about the kidnap & probable PTSD.  That's thoughtful & prudent. 

I was more referencing the teasing of Maddie when they were making coffee, about Maddie blushing, etc. Vasquez was fishing for information about Maddie's personal life.  To me it sounded almost flirtatious, possibly sexual.  Probably not, it just sounded a little suspect to me.

[Sweet-tea]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:28 AM, AZChristian said:

I'm currently re-reading "Desert Star."  I wish they had worked the script of this season of Bosch: Legacy in such a way that Renee Ballard was doing all the stuff that Honey Chandler is doing on the show.  Much more physically believable.

Just in case others haven't read the books . . .

  Reveal spoiler

Honey Chandler was murdered in the third Bosch book, "The Concrete Blonde."  This was written 25 years before "The Crossing" - the basis for this season of Bosch: Legacy - was written.  When the initial pilot was filmed, "Sunny" Chandler was played by Amy Price-Francis.  Given the age difference, if they were going to keep Honey alive, I think APF would have been a better choice to play "Honey" Chandler - then and now.

 

I want to get the book. I didn't realize there was a new one!

It was hard to watch the Maddie n the grave scenes. Yikes. II'm glad they didn't drag it past two episodes. I actually like Maddie though and think the actress does a good job. 

Harry looks a little heavier to me this season. Not overweight but stockier. 

[Mindthinkr]

40 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

Harry looks a little heavier to me this season. Not overweight but stockier. 

I noticed this too. A little slower in the feet as well. 

[AZChristian]

3 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I noticed this too. A little slower in the feet as well. 

He's now playing Bosch as 70.  Slower happens at this stage.

[SnapHappy]

I also think there are more tattoos on Harry this season.  His arms seem to have more of the graffiti-type work than they used to.  

[Raja]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

He's now playing Bosch as 70.  Slower happens at this stage.

Have they time skipped from the real world? I remember he was in the Gulf War 30 years ago so that would have made him 40 the first time in combat. Then they made him a Special Forces reservist in Afghanistan so a 50 something year old Green Beret brings us to John Wayne territory 

[Sweet-tea]

Wow, I'm way off. I thought Bosch was supposed to be in his 50s. 

I like the Honey Chandler character and appreciate that Mimi Rogers isn't Botoxed to the nth degree like so many other actresses. 

[SnapHappy]

12 hours ago, Raja said:

Have they time skipped from the real world? I remember he was in the Gulf War 30 years ago so that would have made him 40 the first time in combat. Then they made him a Special Forces reservist in Afghanistan so a 50 something year old Green Beret brings us to John Wayne territory 

Technically, Bosch in the books was in Vietnam, so time passing in these shows is shifted around a bit, and his military service postings have been matched to his show ages.

Welliver is only 61 in real life, but I believe they are putting Harry in the 65-70 age range.  I think men on TV & stage can get away with that range more easily than women can without looking like they have been deliberately "aged" or filtered with lenses & makeup.  

1 hour ago, Sweet-tea said:

I like the Honey Chandler character and appreciate that Mimi Rogers isn't Botoxed to the nth degree like so many other actresses. 

I LOVE that Mimi wears her life so authentically on her face.  It's a nice change from seeing actresses who "bought" their faces from a plastic surgeon rather than earned them. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by SnapHappy

[Raja]

6 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

Technically, Bosch in the books was in Vietnam, so time passing in these shows is shifted around a bit, and his military service postings have been matched to his show ages.

In the first season when they had Bosch survive a trench collapse in the Gulf War instead of being a Vietnam War tunnel rat I head cannoned that he was a soldier straight out of the foster care system. Putting him in his 50s to maybe 60.

It was the Special Forces in Afghanistan upgrade in a later season instead of just being a John McClain at the  Catalina Island showdown  he had to be a Rambo where I started giving the TV bio the side eye.

[SnapHappy]

6 minutes ago, Raja said:

It was the Special Forces in Afghanistan upgrade in a later season instead of just being a John McClain at the  Catalina Island showdown  he had to be a Rambo where I started giving the TV bio the side eye.

Yeah, we've got to do a bit of hand waving and time shifting to have everything mesh, so it's best just to not think about the logistics.  Since Connelly is actually involved in the production and he's my 3rd favorite author, I'll give him a pass.  *LOL*

[AZChristian]

I may have been slightly "off" on TV Bosch's age.  He is 70ish in the latest book, but the book this season is based on ("The Crossing") was published in 2015, so Bosch's age may be a bit murky.  Definitely in the 60s, though, IMO.

[SnapHappy]

Harry: "Clam up or lawyer up, but don't ever fess up".   Words to live by. 

Jeez, how can Mo be so seduced by the power of the Pu$$y that he can't see he's being played?  Maurice, you are a sap.  Illegal access to a system, trespassing and falsifying your identity for a woman you don't even know.  He's not just a sap, he's an idiot.  His ego led him right into felony territory.   And the guy playing Mo is a really bad actor.  I mean, really.  

And more prying from Vasquez.  I did like how Maddie pushed back with "you already did".  Her statement was pretty good, she seemed less bitchy towards Bosch afterwards.

The 2 bent cops are really annoying me.  And why the hell isn't Harry having his vehicle swept for bugs? Isn't that standard for any investigator? 

[transitfan]

On 10/29/2023 at 1:23 PM, SnapHappy said:

The 2 bent cops are really annoying me.  And why the hell isn't Harry having his vehicle swept for bugs? Isn't that standard for any investigator? 

This.  I seem to recall in a previous season Harry checking either his home or office for bugs (and a home is harder to bug undetected than a car that is sitting unattended (and probably out of sight) for long periods of time.  IIRC, the guy who did the car was done in under a minute.)

Edited October 30, 2023 by transitfan

[Raja]

At this point in time Bosch is only worried about FBI listening and he knows the rules which bind them and where he can talk.

[Prevailing Wind]

The two "bent" guys don't strike me as cops. They had fake blue lights to pull Chandler over, never displayed any badges; just took control as though they are cops. But all this time they're spending tracking Harry - if they were real cops, wouldn't they need to go to work sometime?

[SnapHappy]

4 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

The two "bent" guys don't strike me as cops. They had fake blue lights to pull Chandler over, never displayed any badges; just took control as though they are cops. But all this time they're spending tracking Harry - if they were real cops, wouldn't they need to go to work sometime?

They're real detectives, plainclothes.  They don't drive a patrol car.   They took Honey Chandler to jail for suspected DUI.  They're also blackmailers and murderers. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by SnapHappy

[AZChristian]

We decided to start watching the original Bosch series yesterday.

The quality of writing, acting, etc., was stellar compared to Legacy.  It made you believe that L.A. is a huge city with lots of people.  I think Legacy must have still been following Covid rules for not getting large crowds of people together.  Or they were just too cheap to hire background actors.

[torqy]

My prediction is that

Spoiler

the two dirty cops killed the drug dealer who was Chandler's client's alibi. I think they've been shaking down gay prostitutes.

Also Max Martini plays a convincing dirty cop!

Edited November 1, 2023 by torqy

[SnapHappy]

On 10/31/2023 at 8:13 AM, AZChristian said:

We decided to start watching the original Bosch series yesterday.

The quality of writing, acting, etc., was stellar compared to Legacy.  It made you believe that L.A. is a huge city with lots of people.  I think Legacy must have still been following Covid rules for not getting large crowds of people together.  Or they were just too cheap to hire background actors.

The original series is definitely the gold standard.  Connelly had written 19 Bosch novels by the time they started writing the first season, so the number of possible story lines was vast and there was ample available talent to flesh out the characters.  The first few books were combined until they saw how popular the series was.  

But after 7 seasons, they had to close down the original and start "Legacy".  They couldn't regress and Connelly had to help create new material that made sense.  

I'm happy enough with it, but like "24" & "Breaking Bad", I will watch the original seasons over & over.

[Pike Ludwell]

I'm a few minutes into ep. 8 and I'm disappointed as to how Bosch seems to be outsmarted too much this season. He and/or Mo should be hyper aware of people tailing them and especially when a car behind them suddenly douses its lights and then approaches fast from behind they should notice. I'd been hoping Bosch would have the upper hand by this point, but no, the writers insisted on giving the bad guys at least one more big win.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Pike Ludwell

[AZChristian]

4 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

I'm a few minutes into ep. 8 and I'm disappointed a little how Bosch seems to be outsmarted too much this season. He and/or Mo should be hyper aware of people tailing them and especially when a car behind them suddenly douses its lights and then approaches fast from behind they should notice. I'd been hoping Bosch would have the upper hand by this point, but no, the writers insisted on giving the bad guys at least one more big win.

I found today's new episodes to be almost unwatchable.  Now we have a young actress who is already miscast as a police officer, pretending to be tough when speaking (way too freely about her father's business) with a fellow undercover she hardly knows.

They must have hired new writers.  Not good ones.

[Raja]

What was up with those Sheriff's homicide detectives. They have a tape, a dying cop with a silencer equipped pistol and a dead civilian and they are giving Bosch and Chandler a hard time. "Do your job" indeed.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Raja

[Mindthinkr]

One thing cops don’t do, especially if they think someone may mean them harm, is sit with their back to an open doorway. This was in the hospital scene where Harry was checking on Mo. I’d be on the other side of the bed watching that door. 
 

I loved the original series and even have done rewatches. This one needs to up their game a bit. I’m also surprised that Harry never mentioned the loud car to Maddie. I’m sure she will put 2 + 2 together in time to save her Dad and the season will be concluded.
(If I’m right then this season has been lackluster and too predictable) 

[Prevailing Wind]

3 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

One thing cops don’t do, especially if they think someone may mean them harm, is sit with their back to an open doorway. This was in the hospital scene where Harry was checking on Mo. I’d be on the other side of the bed watching that door.

Maybe they're attempting to show that Harry's losing his mojo. It certainly seems so through this whole season so far.

[SnapHappy]

I STILL have problems with thinking of Anthony Michael Hall as a grown up.  *LOL*

And Mo continues to be an fucking idiot, revealing confidential info to the podcast bimbo.  He needs to be upgraded to a less ignorant investigator.  Why are they writing him as being so stupid?  They never have before.  

Maddie's FBI mother was gunned down in cold blood.  Years later, Maddie had a hitman target her, then got kidnapped & buried alive, all while her cop father is constantly attacked. Inexplicably, she just can't understand why her father is concerned about her welfare.  WTAF?

Edited November 4, 2023 by SnapHappy

[SnapHappy]

17 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Maybe they're attempting to show that Harry's losing his mojo. It certainly seems so through this whole season so far.

Including showcasing his man-boobs when he waked into the car repair shop.  No good.  Put him back in the shirts with pockets, at least.  

[Prevailing Wind]

Just the other day I saw a "Voyager" episode with an extremely young (with dark hair!) Welliver. Seems it's always been his thing to kind of tilt his head back as though he's trying to read via bifocals.

[Ottis]

On 10/19/2023 at 1:35 PM, auntiemel said:

I saw the first two episodes of season two in the theater last night. No spoilers, but suffice it to say they were INTENSE! And I am REALLY excited for the rest of the season!!

I’ve watched the first episode and can barely contain my annoyance and disinterest. Maddie being kidnapped had hijacked the show. They won’t kill her off. Why are we wasting our time with this plot? And why does no one’s antenna ho ip with the repeated mention of the city inspector?

UPDATE: Watched ep 2. What a lowest common denominator, pandering story arc. A live feed on TV while Maddie is captive? Harry experiencing anger and grief? How many tropes can they fit in? I FF’d through most of the second ep. Nothing interesting or of note.I hope we can now return to Bosch.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Ottis

[Irlandesa]

I think the most satisfying plot twist was Mo being one step ahead of the FBI the whole time.  I think it was doubly satisfactory because I loathe the character the actress plays on All Rise who the writers seem to think can never do wrong.  That's not the actress's fault but I can't help but have residual resentment over it.

[Raja]

Things seem to wrap up far to easily. From the FBI's bag of shredded paper to Mo being ahead of the FBI. And for some reason, you would almost think to space between commercial breaks we have the where is the gun non drama after Maddie pulled off what looked like an out of range shot from a pier to a boat. 

[AZChristian]

Episode 9:  Was hopeful, since it was written by Connelly and Welliver.  Sadly, the plot sucked, and the only thing worse was Maddie's acting (or inability to do so).

Episode 10:  Lots of surprises, and a VERY interesting ending.

[preeya]

Spoiler

Was the scene with Lance Reddick real or CGI? 

Either way, R.I.P. Lance.

 

[Raja]

12 minutes ago, preeya said:

  Hide contents

Was the scene with Lance Reddick real or CGI? 

Either way, R.I.P. Lance.

 

The second season finished filming in 2022. So unless it was a last minute tribute and not planned like J. Edgar being in the preseason arc I would guess it was real as I don't have the eye to discover deep fakes.

[Ottis]

In middle of the 6th ep. OK, if we are forced to watch Maddie's story, what sense does it make that she insists the prosecutors remember the other victims while she herself won't write a victim impact statement to help put the guy away as long as possible? You can't have it both ways. Do your part, Maddie.

Also, it begs belief that people can be portrayed as smart as Maddie and also have Maddie not realize a bunch of cop coworkers wouldn't suspect her "secret" work relationship. It hasn't happened, yet, except for her partner, but please.

Overall, thankful that we are back to 80% Bosch. The Maddie stuff, just like last season, is trying. And it isn't the actress. She does a good job. It's the fact we are forced to watch the entire subplot. Yes, she was attacked, yes, she was rescued, yes, she is a cop, yes, it is all complex emotionally. Still not sure why we are watching it.

 

[Raja]

3 minutes ago, Ottis said:

In middle of the 6th ep. OK, if we are forced to watch Maddie's story, what sense does it make that she insists the prosecutors remember the other victims while she herself won't write a victim impact statement to help put the guy away as long as possible? You can't have it both ways. Do your part, Maddie.

The entire plot was based upon the guy going to prison with a sex offender's record and because he didn't take time to rape her before he burred her then it didn't matter for non judicial punishment dished out by drug dealing murders.

[catrice2]

Lance filmed his cameo before he passed away.

 

I love Mo. And I hope that the recent strikes doesn't cancel the spin offs that are planned

[jabRI]

On 11/4/2023 at 3:11 PM, Prevailing Wind said:

Just the other day I saw a "Voyager" episode with an extremely young (with dark hair!) Welliver.

I remember him from a few key LOST episodes.  Always liked him as an actor.  He can keep doing Bosch as long as he wants, he can be the next installment of Crate and Barrel and just give advice (amid all the bad jokes)

 

[Raja]

My memory of Titus Welliver was as a street cop in the one season and done Brooklyn South in the late 90s. I don't think any episodes have ever shown up elsewhere but being a Steven Bochco going back to the cop genre and a shockingly graphic pilot episode starting like Hill Street Blues had ended made a name for it as it premiered.

[Suzn]

21 hours ago, Raja said:

My memory of Titus Welliver was as a street cop in the one season and done Brooklyn South in the late 90s. I don't think any episodes have ever shown up elsewhere but being a Steven Bochco going back to the cop genre and a shockingly graphic pilot episode starting like Hill Street Blues had ended made a name for it as it premiered.

He also had an interesting role on Life. Sadly, I may have been the only to watch that show.

[SnapHappy]

2 hours ago, Suzn said:

He also had an interesting role on Life. Sadly, I may have been the only to watch that show.

I watched.  Anything with Damian Lewis, I'm there (Even Bilions) and Sarah Shahi was great with him, and a much younger Christina Hendricks was a really effective character.  Titus had a GREAT role.  I was sad it only went 2 seasons.  

[Ottis]

Finally finished. Well, there’s a reason why other characters say, “Fuckin Bosch.” He breaks rules. If it results in the next season having less Maddie, all the better. So when do we think Mo figured it out? 

[Prevailing Wind]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

If it results in the next season having less Maddie, all the better.

Toward the end, when Bosch took Coltrane for a walk and left Maddie in the house, I kept hoping the shaky foundation would give way and she'd slide down the mountain to her death.  Jeez, I'm evil.

[Ottis]

15 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Toward the end, when Bosch took Coltrane for a walk and left Maddie in the house, I kept hoping the shaky foundation would give way and she'd slide down the mountain to her death.  Jeez, I'm evil.

But then we would have to deal with a whole season of her dad feeling guilty because he did the house repairs himself. It would still be about Maddie!

[SnapHappy]

Not bad.  But the end was all sorts of wrong.  Harry didn't know about Maddie until she was a toddler.  Harry saw her at Eleanor's house in Vegas, after she had quit the FBI & became a professional poker player.  She & Harry had been divorced for years & she had never told him about Maddie.  

Bittersweet to see Lance Reddick.  Obviously Irving was backing Money for DA.  I think if we're forced to deal with Maddie, she should be back in law & politics with Chandler. She's way too unstable to be in law enforcement. Her self-righteousness and ego are way out of proportion to her training and experience. 

I'm glad Mo proved less stupid than he was acting.  Honey needs him for opposition research next season. I'd like them to dial-down the Jazz music with him. That's still Harry's sthick.

Connelly and his writers have been in new material territory for this entire series, so I hope they make better choices going forward.  

 

[Calvada]

SnapHappy, that's the back story for Harry, Maddie, and Eleanor from the books, that Harry knew nothing of Maddie's existence for a few years.  But the Bosch TV series had as the back story that Harry and Eleanor were married, had Maddie, and then divorced at some point.

Glad Mo was not quite the idiot they were trying to lead us to believe he was.  Although I never believed "Jade's" story - way too coincidental when the feds are all over Chandler, Bosch and anyone associated with him that suddenly Mo would encounter someone who needed his hacker skills.  

Totally ridiculous that Maddie would be permitted to be part of any protection detail where the person to be protected was related to her.  Even if this is an off the books operation, she would not have been allowed to take part. 

It was sad to see Lance Reddick and realize once again what we've lost.  My only regret is that the scene wasn't between Reddick and Welliver, but I did smile when he got to say one last time, "Fucking Bosch." 

One person I would have loved to see return was Amy Aquino as Grace Billets.    

I'm confused about why Preston Borders would do Harry any favors.  When we saw him last, when the scheme he and the crooked lawyer had dreamed up fell apart, wasn't he accusing Harry of planting evidence as they were taking him out of the courtroom to return him to San Quentin?  If Harry had asked him to set up the murder of a fellow inmate, wouldn't Borders immediately report it to get Bosch?  

[SnapHappy]

1 minute ago, Calvada said:

SnapHappy, that's the back story for Harry, Maddie, and Eleanor from the books, that Harry knew nothing of Maddie's existence for a few years.  But the Bosch TV series had as the back story that Harry and Eleanor were married, had Maddie, and then divorced at some point.

So right, I forgot they went alternate universe & gave them a different family backstory.  And yep, it would have been great to see Grace.  

I figured Harry made some deals with guards at the prison to get some favors for Preston in exchange for having the hot shot administered to Dockweiler.  That's probably more valuable to him than some small-scale retribution against Harry. 

[Calvada]

Dockweiler was killed, so if proven that Harry solicited the murder, he could be charged with first degree murder, with a potential penalty of life in prison.  Why would Harry risk it?  Especially by involving a loose cannon like Preston Borders? As Maddie wanted, why not have Dockweiler experience all that prison offers?  He was such an arrogant jerk, it seemed likely he would be attacked at some point.  Possibly by an Asian gang when one considers those he targeted as rape victims.