S05.E05: Lotus 1-2-3

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Philip and Elizabeth receive surprising news about Henry -- and shattering news about a past operation. Stan might be falling in love, but Philip wonders if something darker is going on.

Directed by Noah Emmerich

Promo:

[Ellaria]

Quote

Philip and Elizabeth receive surprising news about Henry -- and shattering news about a past operation.

Just a thought...

Lotus 1-2-3 (the name of this episode) was a spreadsheet application used in the 80s. Yes, I'm old and I used it. Perhaps the speculation that Henry is some sort of computer genius is correct. 

[Erin9]

I wonder if the past operation is Young Hee and Don. Elizabeth knew she'd made a mess of their lives, but I felt we were left hanging with that last sad, confused message from Young Hee. It didn't feel wrapped up to me. Especially since Don had just found out about the "suicide."

Philip is good at reading people. Figures he'd be the one to suspect Stan's girlfriend of something. 

If Henry is a genius, it'll be interesting to see why that matters. Surely, it'll factor into the spy plot somehow.  Also, I assume he'll find out the truth before the show is over. If so, I need him to not flip out or run and tell someone a la Paige. We need a different reaction. 

[Ellaria]

7 hours ago, Erin9 said:

I wonder if the past operation is Young Hee and Don. Elizabeth knew she'd made a mess of their lives, but I felt we were left hanging with that last sad, confused message from Young Hee. It didn't feel wrapped up to me. Especially since Don had just found out about the "suicide."

Philip is good at reading people. Figures he'd be the one to suspect Stan's girlfriend of something. 

Regarding the past operation: since the news received is termed "shattering," it has to be something that would deeply affect P or E. It could be Young Hee/Don...or Martha, of course.

It is interesting that Philip suspects Renee of something after two brief encounters with her (the gym meet-up and the dinner date). Hopefully Stan isn't sharing the pillow talk from the preview with Philip. Her "can't you just be vague" comment isn't even subtle. If she is a spy, she isn't a very good at her job. Have we been told what her (faux) job is?

[Sarah 103]

15 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Just a thought...

Lotus 1-2-3 (the name of this episode) was a spreadsheet application used in the 80s. Yes, I'm old and I used it. Perhaps the speculation that Henry is some sort of computer genius is correct. 

Thank you! I knew it sounded familiar but I couldn't place it and wanted to see if the answer came to me before googling. 

12 hours ago, Erin9 said:

If Henry is a genius, it'll be interesting to see why that matters. Surely, it'll factor into the spy plot somehow.  Also, I assume he'll find out the truth before the show is over. If so, I need him to not flip out or run and tell someone a la Paige. We need a different reaction. 

I think people are exagerating a bit. Being put in an advanced math class is not the same thing as skipping three grades in school. The fact that only his math teacher wanted to talk to his parents makes me think he's just really good at math, not some high IQ super genius. I can't wait to see Henry's reaction to finding out his parents are spies. He won't tell anyone, because that's not his style. We already know he's better at lying and keeping secrets than Paige. 

[Umbelina]

The math teacher is the one who also teaches computers, remember?  Henry wanted to ask Stan some computer questions because his math teacher, though teaching that, didn't know much about them.  Stan suggested Mathew, said Mathew knew more about them than he did.

So, I'd guess that Henry is amazing at computers, which may or may not include math skills.

[Cosmosgravitation]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

So, I'd guess that Henry is amazing at computers, which may or may not include math skills.

It'd almost have to if he has gone beyond the basics.  Coding, for example, is very strongly linked with math and requires many of the same skills for high aptitude - logic, problem solving, and critical thinking.  Coding to me has always felt like a combination of mathematics and learning a new language.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

The math teacher is the one who also teaches computers, remember?  Henry wanted to ask Stan some computer questions because his math teacher, though teaching that, didn't know much about them.  Stan suggested Mathew, said Mathew knew more about them than he did.

 

Yeah, it would make sense if the math teacher was even telling them that look, he didn't know enough about computers but Henry was really interested/adept at them so they should consider finding a course for that. Also as a math teacher he would probably know enough to see how the skills went together. Maybe tell them that if Henry also applied himself to higher mathematics as well, which as his teacher he knows Henry has an aptitude for, he'd have even more careers open to him. The key might be that the teacher sees that Henry's creative and figuring out stuff on his own, given that the best mentor he's been offered his Matthew, who does not actually appear to have much aptitude for it at all. 

I really like the idea of Henry sucking knowledge out of all these people. Like with Stan he asks about life/sex, and it seems like he actually did go to Matthew to try to get more knowledge about computers. He may have already exhausted it. 

It'd be cool if that could be used for scenes with him and Philip. Philip hasn't shown that much interest in them, but he did bug the Arpanet and learned about what it was (relating it to his own work with codes), and was then seen reading PC Magazine. Henry might be able to explain computers in a way that made them more interesting to him. Computers will become the major spy arena as well.

[Umbelina]

Yeah, I worded that badly, if he's already coding, of course he would have great math skills.  I just meant the teacher might be, as sistermagpie says above, completely out of his depth trying to teach Henry more about computers, since Henry surpassed him long ago. 

[Bubbetv]

I wonder if Henry has been caught in an early version of hacking-changing a friend's grade, or stealing the history exam...and the smarts of it have the teacher stopping it with a parent meeting- encourage instead of punish? It Was common in the 80's among most computer illiterate folks to over emphasize how smart it is to hack the basic systems.

[gwhh]

On 3/30/2017 at 6:54 PM, Bubbetv said:

I wonder if Henry has been caught in an early version of hacking-changing a friend's grade, or stealing the history exam...and the smarts of it have the teacher stopping it with a parent meeting- encourage instead of punish? It Was common in the 80's among most computer illiterate folks to over emphasize how smart it is to hack the basic systems.

Too early for any of that computer wise. I bet he was drawing cartoon that made the teacher look bad.   Or something like that. 

 

I feel granny going to get the Hans treatment from E very soon.  All over mischa junior. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by gwhh

[MisterBluxom]

I would guess that "shattering" means something that could result in them being caught and jailed before they had any chance to escape.

Something that would enable the FBI to connect them with some evidence that would be strong enough to bring down their entire lives.

It's just a wild guess. But I'm thinking about the place where that mail robot was repaired and the way that E killed that woman. There were some drugs involved and I wonder if they could be traced back to her.

Also, isn't the time frame in this show now around the time that DNA prosecutions were first becoming possible? Could it be that something they did left some DNA behind and the FBI issues a statement that they are now using this new technology to match DNA to some evidence and maybe that will be enough to cook some of their geese?

Somehow, I strongly doubt anything like that because it seems to me as if any real "close call" will only be believable during the final season. The show runners know we pay attention to when the show will end and so the events in the last few episodes will likely be very different than any other episodes.

I think I will have a good long cry when this show is over.  I have never loved a TV show as much as I love this show.

Edited April 3, 2017 by MissBluxom

[dubbel zout]

5 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

But I'm thinking about the place where that mail robot was repaired and the way that E killed that woman. There were some drugs involved and I wonder if they could be traced back to her.

The elderly woman OD'ed on her own heart pills. There shouldn't be a connection to Elizabeth.

I think "shattering" is from the promo department, so I take it with a grain of salt.

[crashdown]

I really, really want to get some Young Hee followup this season, so I'm hoping for the "shattering news" to be about her.  (Not that I want Don to kill himself, of course, but it's certainly possible that he would.) The Young Hee arc just about destroyed me with its pathos, and I'd like some more of the same misery! It's obvious to me that it had a big effect on Elizabeth; she's so listless about "getting to know" her new scientist mark, and she' disturbed that she likes him.  Finding out that something terrible happened to Young Hee's family could really send her over the edge.  (I also love Henry, and I'm hoping that the bombshell is that he's their new handler!)

[Sarah 103]

12 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Also, isn't the time frame in this show now around the time that DNA prosecutions were first becoming possible? Could it be that something they did left some DNA behind and the FBI issues a statement that they are now using this new technology to match DNA to some evidence and maybe that will be enough to cook some of their geese?

I think we're still a bit too early. There was a very primitive/eary form of genetic testing relating to medicine, but I don't think it was part of law/forensics/crimonology. I thought that's one of the many reasons the O.J Simpson case was such a big deal-it was one of the first times DNA evidence was a key point in a major court case. 

[gwhh]

On 3/30/2017 at 7:39 AM, Ellaria Sand said:

 

It is interesting that Philip suspects Renee of something after two brief encounters with her (the gym meet-up and the dinner date). Hopefully Stan isn't sharing the pillow talk from the preview with Philip. Her "can't you just be vague" comment isn't even subtle. If she is a spy, she isn't a very good at her job. Have we been told what her (faux) job is?

Stan may have problems. But he is a pro. He never told his ex-wife about his undercover operation. Which was very out of the ordinary according to his FBI bosses. 

Its a long term operation to get close to Stan. That stuff takes times.  

[Bannon]

Eh, I think the shattering is likely being oversold. It seems more likely to me that it will be revealed that midge-a-palooza was nothing more than a legit effort at agricultural pest control, meaning that our favorite killin' couple just whacked another poor innocent slob, for no purpose. P will get more angsty, the light bulb coming on; "Hey super-secret weapons projects typically don't take place in unguarded greenhouses secured with 5 buck padlocks! What manner of doofi are my wife and I! D'ohhhhh!" Liz will double down; "Those midges could have been modified to carry nuclear weapons! I'll kill 20,000 schlubs who have terrible timing in their late night work habits, if need be!!"

Henry, finding out about his parents true indentity, eventually changes his name, for purposes of irony, to "Sergey Brin", and has some sort of success in the software industry.

Oh, fer' the luv of LeCarre, I hope they don't have P discover Stan's gf is KGB or GRU, with P getting all angsty over Stan's well being. Maybe if Stan had given him better beer than the 6 packs of Miller he's always waving around like a talisman........

[Ellaria]

22 hours ago, Bannon said:

Oh, fer' the luv of LeCarre, I hope they don't have P discover Stan's gf is KGB or GRU, with P getting all angsty over Stan's well being. Maybe if Stan had given him better beer than the 6 packs of Miller he's always waving around like a talisman........

I'm not sure what to think of Stan's GF; I don't think that she is KGB. But I am usually wrong with this type of speculation.

However, I do expect that we will see Phil have a crisis of conscience about Stan, one way or another. Phil is on the edge as it is.

[crashdown]

Just want to go on record before tonight's episode, because I'm still hoping for a Young Hee tie-in.  It just occurred to me that the lotus is a powerful and important symbol in Korean culture, which would be a nice double meaning for the "Lotus 1-2-3" title (so nice that I wouldn't put it past the writers to have made Henry into a computer geek and Young Hee Korean just to be able to use it!)

Edited to add: Oh well--win some, lose some. I think I'm going to have to give up my Young Hee fantasy arc--this season clearly belongs to Philip and his angst, not to Elizabeth.

Edited April 5, 2017 by crashdown

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

However, I do expect that we will see Phil have a crisis of conscience about Stan, one way or another. Phil is on the edge as it is.

I think Philip's main priority a always is the safety of his family. Stan's not some innocent bystander, he's in the game, bringing down Philip's people without mercy for the most part--at least that's his job. I don't see why Philip would have a crisis of conscience about somebody going after the guy. Stan's already been targeted for good reason, after all.

I would expect Philip, rather, to just be bothered at the risk involved in sticking in another of their agents, and the kind of annoyance any officer would feel at having somebody else stuck into his project without telling him.

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I'm not sure what to think of Stan's GF; I don't think that she is KGB. But I am usually wrong with this type of speculation.

However, I do expect that we will see Phil have a crisis of conscience about Stan, one way or another. Phil is on the edge as it is.

To me, the major shortcoming of the show is how poorly the character of Stan has been executed. If you are going to give a character in heavily serialized drama as much screen time as Stan has received through four-plus seasons, he simply has to be thought-through better, written better. I've been tempted to rip the actor, but I don't think the acting has been the biggest issue, and for all I know the actor has tried to move the writing in the right direction. Any scene which invoves Stan or talking about Stan is something I'm tempted to fast forward through, because there is nothing about the character which makes any sense to me.

So I hope they don't write too much stuff about P contemplating Stan's fate.  

[Ellaria]

57 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't see why Philip would have a crisis of conscience about somebody going after the guy. 

We may have to agree to disagree. I think that Phil is conflicted about many things. I think that whatever Stan's fate is and whatever role Phil has in it - or doesn't - will weigh heavily on him.

8 minutes ago, Bannon said:

To me, the major shortcoming of the show is how poorly the character of Stan has been executed. If you are going to give a character in heavily serialized drama as much screen time as Stan has received through four-plus seasons, he simply has to be thought-through better, written better. I've been tempted to rip the actor, but I don't think the acting has been the biggest issue, and for all I know the actor has tried to move the writing in the right direction. Any scene which invoves Stan or talking about Stan is something I'm tempted to fast forward through, because there is nothing about the character which makes any sense to me.

So I hope they don't write too much stuff about P contemplating Stan's fate.  

I agree that Stan's character arc has been written poorly and is the rare weakness in the show. I, too, have troubled by the writing for Stan for years.

I don't think they will write "too much stuff" (that's relative, of course) about Phil's contemplations. This show doesn't waste time on excess and it certainly does not have the characters engage in overthinking. 

[Chaos Theory]

It must be awkward for Philip that Deirdre is more interested in Lotus 1-2-3 than him.  Dude she is just not that into you.  But hey at least Elizabeth's mark is into her.  Enough for her to realize that they almost made a terrible terrible mistake.

Poor Misha.  All that way to get turned away by Gabriel.

Henry gets a storyline.  He is good at math.

So how many people are spying on Stan?  Are we spying on Stan to see if someone else is spying on Stan or are you just jealous?

Its us Elizabeth it's Us.  Claudia wasn't exactly wrong about Philip.  He is unstable.  Not sure what Misha telling him about Afghanistan would do.  

Edited April 5, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[gwhh]

Mischa going back to the USSR?   They will send him to the Gulag, rehabilitation camps, and/or back to the mental hospital for sure.

Gaberial knows this.  I get the feeling gaberial is Stashing mischa at the local new KGB safe house we heard about earlier this season. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by gwhh

[Primetimer]

As The Centre interferes with a much-desired meeting, Ben gives Elizabeth some bad news -- but it's over s'mores, so it could be worse.

View the full article

[gwhh]

Phillip sounded almost emotional his only "real friend" MAYBE being used as asset he sounded genuinely concerned. E like your nuts, that nuts. He the emeny. What ever makes him weaker and us stronger. Is great for us. She also sounded jealous Phillip had a "real friend".

 

Phillip said a lot that would make Stan be precut for a KGB honey trip.  But what is the type that Stan would go for?  Tall, busty and athletic?    I don't understand how Stan type factors into the KGB plans.   What is stan type?  Pulse and breathing would be my guess. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by gwhh

[AimingforYoko]

I love how the show lampshaded how little attention Henry's been paid...by everyone, including his parents.

Misha looked sooo young in that conversation with Gabriel.

It's The Dating Game! (Moscow Edition) with your host Ivan Burov!

And so it begins with Phillip, will Elizabeth come along?

[Umbelina]

Well, we all guessed that they killed the scientist for nothing, and it would cause a massive, and deserved, guilt trip and even more doubts for Philip.

I'm pissed about Misha though, seriously, this show seems to be spinning in place WAY too much, and I honestly don't remember that in past seasons.  Enough with the set up, get on with it.

[crashdown]

In many ways this season is about Philip and his sons--Henry, Misha, and Tuan. I'm interested to see where they're going with it. 

[JennyMominFL]

3 minutes ago, crashdown said:

In many ways this season is about Philip and his sons--Henry, Misha, and Tuan. I'm interested to see where they're going with it. 

Along with Philip  AS a son

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

It must be awkward for Philip that Deirdre is more interested in Lotus 1-2-3 than him.  Dude she is just not that into you.  But hey at least Elizabeth's mark is into her.  Enough for her to realize that they almost made a terrible terrible mistake.

Why would that be awkward for him? It's fine with him. She's telling him what she knows and he doesn't need to be her dream man. Win win.

These past few eps I feel like there's so much going on and packed into each episode it barely gets started on each story. Here we had Oleg, Stan's girlfriend, meeting Aderholdt, Paige being emo, Paige and Matthew, checking in with Tuan, checking in with Evgenia, Mischa making contact, Mischa and Gabriel, Gus and Deirdre, Elizabeth learning what should have at least been a possibility all along in her mind from Ben, oh and Henry's good at math. Oh, and Philip's memories. That's a hell of a lot.

Oleg's dinner was hilarious. That was probably a high point. Always happy to see Tuan, especially when he immediately picked up on something going on with Philip and Elizabeth.

Poor Henry gets one scene and then doesn't even get a scene to eat the Chinese food that was in his honor, basically. And yet I was really interested in his parting shot, that his parents favor Paige. Sure Philip was trying to awkwardly show genuine enthusiasm, but it's hard for it to not come out as a backhanded compliment. Though Henry should know that being the smart one and being the one who does everything right are two different things. The audience has considered Henry the smart one (that is, the smarter one, at least) all along. But then immediately it's Paige getting the attention and all the screentime. Maybe she should tell Matthew she just realized his hair is completely unfashionable for 1984? Btw, I couldn't identify the guy in the poster on Paige's wall.

Glad the grain thing has been explained, though frankly it just makes the murder of the lab guy more annoying. Like of course they had to have the two of them needlessly murder some guy just so that 2 weeks later Philip could angst over it. These two kill too. many. people. You're not being a good spy if you just slit the throat of anybody who notices you spying. The other thing that annoyed me was EST. I was really hoping we'd seen the end of that. Honestly, I don't need a new guy with weird hair to pop up and explain the subtext of Philip every few weeks. I might not get what he's thinking deep down, but I always know as much as the EST guy is saying. And I'd rather watch Philip muddle through on his own at this point. Seems like EST has primed the pump. He can surely do some of his own work by now.

I do like how Philip really does seem more comfortable with Tuan than Henry these days, though for the opposite reason that Stan liked Henry. Or at least just in these two scenes.

I wonder what's going to happen to Mischa. As much as I knew they'd have to get him to speak English for at least some of his scenes in the US rather than have all the non-Russian speakers learn too many lines, I felt really sorry for him having to sound like a toddler at such an important moment in his life. When he was waiting for Philip he looked happy and excited. Then he's got some old guy speaking to him like he's mentally challenged and having to reply in two word sentences. And have that desperate look of trying to follow someone in a language you barely have any practice listening to. Of course he was terrified of Gabriel trying to take him somewhere they could be alone. But I wonder where this will go.

One thing that totally interested me, of course, was Philip's flashbacks, which now seem to be set up as a genuine mystery, Spellbound-style. When Elizabeth asked if he ever brought home anything else--that was a lot more on point than the EST stuff. If he's remembering this particular pattern, there's something to it. Two weeks ago the family scene had a second kid whose hammering was incessant despite the camera never focusing on him at all. This week there's no other kid and, very obviously, three bits of black bread. One for each of them. But I guess it must connect to the patterns the other guy was talking about too. I remember last season when he remembered his father as "tired" to Paige it was during a season where Philip himself looked like he was going to keel over during the first half of it.

Can't say for sure yet, but it does seem like maybe Philip's memories have been actually repressed. I kept wondering if another flashback was going to pop up since the timing of the first one was a bit unexpected. Like that's Philip version of "think about baseball" (although he didn't seem to need to distract himself.) He's never actually said how his father died, and these memories would be from about that time, since he's 6. And it was winter this time, with snow. (Though I'd think they'd be wearing more clothes or looking colder.) There's some trajectory here from this story to the only other ones we know.

2 minutes ago, crashdown said:

In many ways this season is about Philip and his sons--Henry, Misha, and Tuan. I'm interested to see where they're going with it. 

And Philip as a son--to his father in flashbacks and maybe to Gabriel. (Not sure about Gabriel yet, but he gets that Philip would want to talk to Mischa. What's sad is he could probably just tell Mischa not to talk about the war. That's probably not actually what he wants to talk to him about.

[chick binewski]

I'm watching this episode again because IMDb gave me bad intel; they mistakenly had Alison Wright in the credits. I must say I would have really enjoyed it if she was bachelorette #4 sitting at the dinner table.

I was cringing when Philip was flashing back to his one-pant family during sex with Lotus lady. Then I was horrified wondering what they were actually eating and where the other child was.

Mischa's story tonight was just too sad and one of those times when  I'm hopeful the show ends with all the bad guys meeting very permanent ends.

[Umbelina]

This season has just been all foreplay and no orgasm.

It's beginning to really annoy me, yes, I'm interested, but it's all set up set up set up, with very little payoff, and we're 5 episodes in already.  What the hell happened?  Did they fire all the writers or something?

[crashdown]

Quote

 I'm hopeful the show ends with all the bad guys meeting very permanent ends.

I hear that sentiment expressed often, and I just never get.  I'm hopelessly in love with all of these poor, tragic fools.  I can't see any way out of its ending miserably for all of them, but I'd love for them to be happy.

[whiporee]

I'd bet Stan's girl is FBI rather than Russian. 

Glad to see the US wasn't trying to poison the Soviet's grain. 

Ben apparently does not have an Phillip's mad skills, because E could not have looked more disinterested, and I think disinterested is  hard place to get to in that situation. 

If there was ever a time to make a move, Matthew, tonight was it. Nice little touch of Paige doing the finger thing while she was talking with Matthew. 

I think it's kind of sweet that Luan misses his parents.  

We have not seen the last of Misha. My guess is that Gabriel is going to lie to Phillip and say he died, and then Misha's going to look for travel agents and go over them one by one until he finds Phillip. Then Phillip is going to freak about about the lie and want to defect, which will set up the last season of either E chasing him, or both of them on the run, or strategizing. But he's clearly, clearly done, and she's clearly, clearly not, so that will cause conflict.

However, she didn't try honeytrap him tonight, which was new. I think she went there to do so, but saw he was too far gone. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem in character for her to go after him to provide comfort. They usually let these things play out individually or through sex. 

But one does have to wonder if MM stole some apple pie moonshine from Harlan to use in these situations.  They all may need it sooner than later.

Edited April 5, 2017 by whiporee

[Cosmosgravitation]

Biggest mystery of the season was answered in the first eight minutes.  Henry is good at math.

[benteen]

Like the rest of the episodes this season, I thought the episode was good.  I thought the show ended with a strong last couple of minutes as Philip realizes the mistake that he's made.  But again, this season hasn't been impressing me.  In the prior seasons, the show had at least 1 or 2 standout episodes by this point.  So far, there's been nothing remarkable and it feels like the show is costing on its reputation.  This show is far too good for that and I hope it kicks into gear and that there's two storylines (the grain and Mischa) hasn't just been for nothing.  This show is too good, to use a South Park expression, to start falling in love with the smell of its own farts.  From what I've heard, Sons of Anarchy started to get this way when it hit its fifth season.

On and Paige is unhappy...what a shock.  True, it's understandable given what she's going through but just because it is doesn't mean I want to see another 18 episodes of the same character beats.

[chick binewski]

10 minutes ago, crashdown said:

I hear that sentiment expressed often, and I just never get.  I'm hopelessly in love with all of these poor, tragic fools.  I can't see any way out of its ending miserably for all of them, but I'd love for them to be happy.

I always have the thought when there's something incredibly sad like the look on Mischa's face tonight. Or sometimes when Elizabeth regards the US with bemused condescension. But mostly during the really sad stuff.

6 minutes ago, whiporee said:

I'd bet Stan's girl is FBI rather than Russian. 

OK, this would be good too.

[vb68]

I'm not feeling all that sympathetic for Philip, he does have a lot to feel like shit about and yes, Philip, you killed a completely innocent guy because you guys were utterly WRONG.

At least he feels bad. I really don't think Elizabeth does. Collateral damage and all that. She was just trying to placate Philip. Still I rewatched the scene twice where she finds out they are idiots just for the look on her face.

I thought Philip was lucky not to break character with the woman in bed as he's having flashbacks. It's only a matter of time. I was surprised he got her into bed at all. Based on their first encounter, I have a hard time buying it.

No way Mischa is going right back to Russia.

Loved Henry throwing shade at his parents.  They might even feel bad for a few seconds, but then it's on to more pressing topics, Henry forgotten.   Do they really not know any of friends besides Stan? 

As an accounting student in the late 80s, I certainly remember Lotus 1-2-3 as well.

Just as I'm about to hope it's a Paige free ep, she shows up half-heartedly staring at chinese food.  Damn it.

Edited April 5, 2017 by vb68

[zibnchy]

First I thought I was going to hate plot-contrivance Mischa, but he's adorable and I want him to meet his daddy. Why couldn't they meet in a safehouse somewhere? What is the handler guy (blanking on name) going to do with him? That scares me. Mischa can't go back. Seems he'd be killed or, at least, locked up and worked to death.)  Seems odd they brought back Margo Martendale for the one scene.

This is apropos of nothing but the actor hired to portray Oleg's father does not resemble him in the least bit. Hmmm, maybe he's not Oleg's papa. Not that that would be a storyline. Anyway, I love Oleg and I want him to survive and be happy.

Matthew Rhys was really good tonight. He needs some recognition for this role. Has he been nominated? I think Keri got nominated last year.

[vb68]

4 minutes ago, zibnchy said:

Seems odd they brought back Margo Martendale for the one scene.

I'm confused now on Claudia's status. Is she Gabriel's handler just there to be his sounding board? It would seem she's still co-handler of Philip and Elizabeth, but she really doesn't interact with them at all.

[Sarah 103]

1 hour ago, AimingforYoko said:

It's The Dating Game! (Moscow Edition) with your host Ivan Burov!

That's exactly what I said. I also thought it was interesting that Oleg clearly wants an intellectual equal based on the fact that he called them silly. 

20 minutes ago, zibnchy said:

This is apropos of nothing but the actor hired to portray Oleg's father does not resemble him in the least bit. Hmmm, maybe he's not Oleg's papa. Not that that would be a storyline. Anyway, I love Oleg and I want him to survive and be happy.

Genetics are strange. My mother refers to it as genetic roulette. Parents don't always look like thier kids. I love Oleg too and not only do I want him to survive and be happy, I want him to team up with Stan again. They worked well together.

Claudia is an older version of Elizabeth (ideologically driven), and Gabriel is an older version of Philip (concerned about people).   

Philip's memories have to been leading to something. There has to be some sort of payoff to these odd fragments that keep popping up at odd moments. 

Question: I don't understand the threat Olg's supervisor made to the store manager. Was the idea that if the man co-operated, his son would return from Afghanistan/be reassigned to another post or was it that he had a realitivy easy position in Afghanistan (Saigon soldier working in an office in Vietnam) and they would have him transferred to the front/a more difficult position.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Sarah 103

[MisterBluxom]

I'm very happy they've finally given Henry some solid focus. Before this episode he just seemed kind of aimless and lost. Or maybe missing would be a better word?

[Auntie Anxiety]

I thought Philip was equally upset over killing that guy in the lab needlessly and the fact that he received bad information from Gabriel (and those higher up). If that info was bad, what else was a lie? And how many others had been jeopardized due to poor intel?

[Erin9]

I'm starting to wonder if Philip fully remembers his past. He seemed confused about why he's having these memories. Notably- no 2nd kid in this flashback. Interesting. But I loved that he told Elizabeth about them. And that she called to tell him she missed him. Nice couple moment. That said, I wish they'd get on with what his backstory is. They're leading up to something. Come on! They need to move something along. I really thought this episode would jumpstart some things. 

I got a kick out of how uninterested they were in their marks this week. But- from the preview-

Spoiler

Why is Elizabeth still seeing him if there's nothing to this? I'm confused. Is there any other relevant information she can get from him? And I assume deidre talking about lotus will lead to something too. So I guess we're not done with Kansas. 

 

I totally got why Oleg was unhappy with his dad. But- I felt sorry for his dad. He was genuinely trying to help him- badly- but he was trying. That was funny though- all those women over for dinner. 

Poor Mischa. That was a painful scene between him and Gabriel. I hurt for him. Both actors were wonderful in that scene in the park. He came all this way, and he can't see his dad. I can see Claudia's concerns about him spilling the beans to Philip about getting locked up. Philip would flip out. But- if Philip finds out Gabriel lied to him- and I'm sure he will- he'll be livid. This can't be the end of the Mischa story. So, I assume it's coming. 

Thst was one sad scene between Paige and Philip. It broke his heart to see how sad and messed up Paige is. That totally contributed to his devastation at the end about killing that guy for nothing. Philip saying it's us at the end seemed to indicate that they had to keep trudging along; he wouldn't let her do all the heavy lifting- i.e. Killing. But, he's not in a good place. That's clear. 

So, Henry's voicing some displeasure about being ignored in favor of Paige. It was bound to happen. Sad a moment when he gets positive attention from his parents turns into a reproach on how it's all about Paige. 

So.... is Renee a spy? Still don't know. I wish Philip's spying gave us answers. But at least he's looking into it. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

Maybe Henry is a math/computer genius who will be a much better asset for the KGB than Paige could ever be. I can't decide if the writers don't know what to do with her or if she isn't that good of an actress or what, but I personally find her story line boring, predictable and annoying.

[Sarah 103]

4 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

I'm starting to wonder if Philip fully remembers his past. He seemed confused about why he's having these memories. Notably- no 2nd kid in this flashback. Interesting.

Are they memories, or some sort of lowgrade PTSD type flashbacks. They seem to be intrusive, and not something he is trying to remember, but something that just suddenly remembers out of nowhere. 

2 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Maybe Henry is a math/computer genius who will be a much better asset for the KGB than Paige could ever be.

That would be a fantastic storyline. Philip and Elizabeth trying to figure out the right way to tell Henry, (how do we tell him, what do we tell him, when is the right time to tell him) because they know they messed up with Paige, and this is thier second chance to do it successfully. 

[vb68]

Quote

Are we spying on Stan to see if someone else is spying on Stan or are you just jealous?

I think it was concern born of real friendship. Philip seeing his bond with Stan as real has always been an undercurrent, like when he told Elizabeth if anything happened Stan would look after the kids, but this episode really brought it home.  Yeah, he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders, but that's his buddy. 

Quote

I thought Philip was equally upset over killing that guy in the lab needlessly and the fact that he received bad information from Gabriel (and those higher up). If that info was bad, what else was a lie? And how many others had been jeopardized due to poor intel?

And he clearly sees they were the bad guys in that whole mess. He usually tries to ignore it, but there was no escaping that this time.

[PinkRibbons]

26 minutes ago, zibnchy said:

This is apropos of nothing but the actor hired to portray Oleg's father does not resemble him in the least bit. Hmmm, maybe he's not Oleg's papa.

Last week while my mother listened to the scene with Oleg's mother talking about what she had to do to survive in the camps, and Mama said, "sleeping with the guards" without my asking. I wouldn't put it past the writers to have us wonder about that.

The translations continue to be so sadly lacking. "Son of a bitch" has a direct literal Russian translation that I use all the time. And yet they went with a more printable insult that as far as I know doesn't have an English equivalent. It's definitely not as strong. Even so I really liked the guy who Oleg and skeevy partner guy were trying to interrogate. He didn't tell them to leave him alone, he told them to get the hell out.

I laughed so hard at the scene with the Dating Game Ambush. My father is about Oleg's age and he was an old bachelor who developed a keen sense for when someone was trying matchmaking. I can only imagine Papa walking into that situation and then running straight back out the door. I don't blame Oleg for telling his father it was a "circus".

I miss the days of Philip being Henry's best friend. And I loved the little "I'm good at math" moment of pride. (My folks do that all the time, teasing each other that any good their children inherited came from their own sides of the family. And anything bad they blame on the other.) Is it really so hard for Philip to just sit down and apologize to Henry for making the wrong assumption and say that he's proud of him? Maybe. It's unlikely Philip's father was the type to worry what his child thought of him.

I only have experience with Russian parents so I don't know if this is mainly their problem or if it's more just a parent thing, but neither of my folks seemed to realize that acknowledging wrongs they had done to children or mistakes they had made was a thing. My father has never apologized to me in my life, in so many words. My mother only started doing so after my "bad years" (some teens are weepy. I was Harry Potter 5th year CAPSLOCK EVERYTHING PISSES ME OFF) in my teens when I finally ended a fight screaming that if I had just gotten an admission of wrongdoing on her part and an apology, we wouldn't be having the stupid fight.

I feel like those sex scenes must have been funny as hell to shoot because both Phil and Liz were portrayed as so. not. into it.

I had the fleeting thought that Renee might be working for a different foreign agency like Mossad or Mi5, but that seems unlikely. I do love that Philip picked up on what the whole audience seemed to have picked up on, that she's weirdly perfect for Stan. I'm surprised he managed to put together a surveillance on her without telling any higher-ups like Gabriel, who could have given a yes or no answer about Renee's allegiances. I always figured these random people who work for the Centre are brought together by call-center lady after getting the OK from Claudia or Gabriel. Apparently Philip has enough pull to use those resources for himself.

13 Reasons Why is messing with my head a tad; I'm getting worried about Page being clinically depressed. She's just so sad and helpless.

[Erin9]

35 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Are they memories, or some sort of lowgrade PTSD type flashbacks. They seem to be intrusive, and not something he is trying to remember, but something that just suddenly remembers out of nowhere. 

That would be a fantastic storyline. Philip and Elizabeth trying to figure out the right way to tell Henry, (how do we tell him, what do we tell him, when is the right time to tell him) because they know they messed up with Paige, and this is thier second chance to do it successfully. 

True. I think part of the reason we saw Philip thinking about his childhood was to show his disinterest in deidre, but they could have shown that in plenty of other ways. Instead, it was him flashing back to a past he's never wanted to talk about and isn't trying to remember during sex of all times.  I was shocked by that. And I think I was supposed to be. Philip was too. That's probably why he actually told Elizabeth something, even if he couldn't articulate what his memories mean. PTSD might be a good word for what is happening to him. Is the next flashback just going to be him and his mom? Then him alone? I need to rewatch the est scene. 

i'd really like things to go over better with Henry, but he's not exactly happy with his parents right now. They need to spend time with him.  I just clicked on this: Philip comments he's good at math, but has been too busy to realize his son shares his talent. Ouch. One more thing for him to dwell on. It's sad to see what Philip and Henry's relationship has become. I hope they get the chance to improve it. 

Mischa's broken English made Gabriel telling him he couldn't see his father so much more painful. I wanted to hug him. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Erin9