S07.E16: The First Day of the Rest of Your Life

[rmontro]

5 minutes ago, HighMaintenance said:

Ex-TWOPer here.  REPRESENT!

I used to enjoy Television Without Pity also, until they closed the forums there.  I then migrated over to IMDB, but they also recently closed their forums, so I'm a double orphan.

[TigerLynx]

9 minutes ago, MrsR said:

The real Shiva is some sort of large dog who was trained to jump on one of his trainers. That's why a Red Shirt got it and not Negan, it had to be a trained stunt person who works with said trained dog. 

Then they CGI the tiger over the dog. 

Does the size of the CGI Tiger have to match the size of the dog?

8 minutes ago, HighMaintenance said:

Jadis & Negan's verbal exchange regarding 10.... 12..... 10...  She was negotiating the # of minutes Negan had to stay silent during their encounters.

The junkyard idiots are dumber than I thought.  If you have a chance to shut Negan up, even for a little while, you should definitely bargain for longer than 10 or 12 minutes.

Quote

How did Shiva know to attack the bad guys and not an Alexandrian?  If you review the episode you will see Ezekiel just off camera with a laser pointer.

I don't need an explanation for how Shiva knows who or who not to attack.  To me, Shiva is the smartest person on the show.  It's the ZA, and Shiva the Tiger has a bunch of humans taking care of and feeding her.  Figuring out which ones Zeke wants Shiva to take out is no problem, and she'll enjoy chowing down on live humans while she has the chance.

[Raven1707]

I haven't had a chance to even start reading the thread (computer issues), but the Sunday Cable Ratings are in for "The First Day of the Rest of Your Life":

The season finale of “The Walking Dead” hit a six-episode high in the ratings — but it also had the lowest ratings for a season ender of the show since Season 2.

Sunday’s finale drew a 5.4 rating among adults 18-49 (along with 11.314 million total viewers), the best for the show this season since its Feb. 12 return scored a 5.7. It’s down 22 percent, however, from the 6.9 for the Season 6 finale last year. The last time a “Walking Dead” finale was lower was back in 201, when the Season 2 finale drew a 4.7.

For the season as a whole, “The Walking Dead” was down about 17 percent — 5.4 vs. 6.5 in Season 6.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-cable-ratings-april-2-2017/

And here are the Live + Same Day ratings for Season 7, in full:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million

02-12-17 “Rock in the Road” 11.996 million
02-19-17 “New Best Friends” 11.075 million
02-26-17 “Hostiles and Calamities” 10.423 million
03-05-17 “Say Yes” 10.163 million
03-12-17 “Bury Me Here” 10.676 million
03-19-17 “The Other Side” 10.318 million
03-26-17 “Something They Need” 10.543 million
04-02-17 “The First Day of the Rest of Your Life” 11.314 million

Of course, most shows would KILL for these numbers, but perhaps not gratuitously or with a baseball bat...

[smorbie]

33 minutes ago, MrsR said:

The real Shiva is some sort of large dog who was trained to jump on one of his trainers. That's why a Red Shirt got it and not Negan, it had to be a trained stunt person who works with said trained dog. 

Then they CGI the tiger over the dog. 

ooh.  I thought she was just 100% CGI like a cartoon.

[smorbie]

30 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I used to enjoy Television Without Pity also, until they closed the forums there.  I then migrated over to IMDB, but they also recently closed their forums, so I'm a double orphan.

I'm a double orphan, too.  I had been on TV.com forever.  We kept getting these satisfaction surveys. Increasingly they began asking questions about whether we ever went to TVGuide.com.  I happen to hate TVGuide.com because of the way they destroyed the JumpTheShark website.  But, of course, they were taking over TV.com, so I had to leave.  I still check back from time to time, mostly to read their TWD reviews, and there is almost no commenting anymore.

Then I went to IMDB. I wasn't happy there because I am neither profane nor a troll.  So, it was kind of a relief when they closed those forum. 

Then I found this site.  And I really like it here.  It is moderated enough that people are polite to each other.  And I like the episode-specific threads.  That way if I watch an old rerun, I can still chat about it.  It's lacking on the Dr. Who forums, though.

Before coming here I'd never heard of Television Without Pity. Why did they close their forums?

[Anela]

8 hours ago, Gobi said:

I think Jadis gave a really quick explanation to Rick as to how the alliance with Negan came about, but I didn't quite catch it. Something about scavenging. In any event, why was Negan so willing to be nice to the GPK? When that ASZhat, whose name  I've forgotten, hinted at replacing Rick, Negan gutted him like a fish. Yet, he treats the GPK as equals, no Lucilling or anything.

I think she said that Tamiel followed the people who stole the boat stuff from Rick, and they made a better deal with them. 

[watch2much]

5 hours ago, Eucrid said:

I though JDM was a lot better in this episode. I've felt all along that his character was a parallel to Ezekiel in that he puts on a big act for his followers. This episode is the first time I think JDMs performance has really shown that though. When Rick tells him he's going to kill him he looks genuinely confused and scared before he starts laughing, its like when you watch a UFC fight and if a fighter gets caught with a punch early he'll back off smiling, its a reaction that shows fear. To me thats what Negans laughing was.

I also agree.  I think the close up performances of Andrew Lincoln and JDM were exceptional.  They both nailed that scene.

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

About Sasha - couldn't what Eugene said to Negan be true, that Sasha could have died of suffocation? Aren't coffins pretty much air-tight? Wouldn't Eugene have known this beforehand?

Just read the Prev.Tv recap, which mentions how Rick is fine an hour after being shot in the gut (I thought he was shot in the leg at first - bad enough). How did he do that? Who dug the bullet out? Why wasn't he showing signs of excruciating pain? I see I'm going to have to rewatch for a change.

Kudos to whoever made Shiva look so real - I think she's the best CGI animal I've seen outside of Jurassic Park:

They didn't even forget the white spot on the ear.

 

We don't know that it was an "hour" after being shot.  There was nothing indicating how long it had been.  We also know Rosita had some medical knowledge and Tara probably has a little, too.  I'm sure Denise showed her some things.  Maggie and Carol were also there.  Carol had worked with Herschel and Maggie probably also picked some things up.  

It's not like having a doctor, but it's enough to get by.

14 minutes ago, Anela said:

I think she said that Tamiel followed the people who stole the boat stuff from Rick, and they made a better deal with them. 

Oh, that's right.  I hate her so much I'd already deleted that from my brain.  It's also possible I just didn't understand her cave-man language.

....I really hate them.

[AngelaHunter]

13 minutes ago, smorbie said:

Then I went to IMDB. I wasn't happy there because I am neither profane nor a troll.

Yeah, I took one glance at that place - the biggest troll playground anywhere - and quickly backed away. Reddit, where you have to sit and think up some terribly hipster-ish witty wisecrack before you post? Hmmm - no. Thank goodness for this place.

 

58 minutes ago, HighMaintenance said:

AMC took a show with great promise and a devoted fan base of horror/fantasy/sci-fi devotees and basically crapped all over it.  AMC ramped up the advertising to story ratio, cut the budget back significantly, let an egocentric comic book writer take the helm,

 I have never, and would never watch TTD or FTWD or whatever and couldn't help but think for a long time what a different show we'd have had it been on HBO or another premium channel, where we could lose ourselves in the show and never see characters who just got brutally murdered sitting, smiling and looking their best minutes later while they chat with some little annoying, squeaky-voiced Nu-male twerp about how wonderful and genius this ep was. On AMC, it's all about the merchandising and advertising and action figures and video games and maybe even Happy Meals and all that other crap. I would never look at or buy anything associated with this show but I still feel manipulated and fleeced. My own fault, I know, but who ever thought this would get so shitty?

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

The real Shiva is some sort of large dog who was trained to jump on one of his trainers. That's why a Red Shirt got it and not Negan, it had to be a trained stunt person who works with said trained dog.

Actually, Shiva is a really big guy in a blue suit. I enjoyed this:

http://www.tvguide.com/news/the-walking-dead-shiva-behind-the-scenes/

ETA:

MrsR, where did you get the info about the dog? Was that posted somewhere? I couldn't find anything about that.

Edited April 4, 2017 by AngelaHunter

[ghoulina]

21 hours ago, smorbie said:

I meant it's fashionable to complain about the show and pretend you don't care about it.  

Again, can't speak for everyone, but I think you can care about characters but still find plenty of complaints with a show. I can't see any of the posters here putting up a pretense. There's no reason to. 

1 hour ago, HighMaintenance said:

How did Shiva know to attack the bad guys and not an Alexandrian?  If you review the episode you will see Ezekiel just off camera with a laser pointer.

Khary Payton explained on Twitter that he trains Shiva with flashcards. 

 

34 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Actually, Shiva is a really big guy in a blue suit. I enjoyed this:

 

Yea, they showed the guy in the blue suit on TTD. It actually made me chuckle quite a bit. Shiva is a lost member of the Blue Man Group. 

[Gobi]

4 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I didn't get it either.  Rick's actions just made no sense.  Maybe the junkyard bitch's bangs hypnotized him.  Seriously though, I actually do think he was weirdly attracted to her. 

Rick is attracted to her junk.

[Ocean Chick]

48 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Rick is attracted to her junk.

Didn't realize Rick swung that way.  No wonder Jesus stopped by his bedroom way back in ASZ....

[AngelaHunter]

31 minutes ago, Ocean Chick said:

Didn't realize Rick swung that way. 

See, you'd know that if you read fanfiction. I do and now know that every single guy on this show is gay. Maggie, Michonne, Lori, Jessie, Rosita, Carl crushing on Enid, Sasha and Negan's harem - all just fronts.

[Ohwell]

4 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I think so too. There was way more of the eye-thing going on with her than we've seen with Michonne.

Yes.  I do think he cares deeply about Michonne because he knows she's his ride or die chick.  However, junkyard bitch makes him want to get his freak on.  

[AngelaHunter]

8 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

 However, junkyard bitch makes him want to get his freak on.  

Okay, this is the best laugh I've had today, because I agree. I think there's a little freaky-deaky going on under Ricky's conventional exterior.

[Double V]

On 4/2/2017 at 10:28 PM, AimingforYoko said:

[Sarcasm]Boy, was that episode worth the extra 25 minutes. [/Sarcasm]

By "extra 25 minutes," I think they meant an extra 20 minutes of commercials. :-)

[Tony]

13 minutes ago, Double V said:

By "extra 25 minutes," I think they meant an extra 20 minutes of commercials. :-)

And the other 5 minutes is Negan doing his back bends.

God, he's tiresome.

[Sighed I]

On 4/3/2017 at 1:00 PM, smorbie said:

This is the Rodney Dangerfield of shows. It gets no respect, and yet.. people are still here every week complaining about it. It's the fashionable thing to do.

I'm particularly enjoying all the comments about how "obvious" it was that the heapsters were going to double cross Rick. if it were that obvious, the people would have been talking about it before. But, no one mentioned it.

Speaking for myself, I did say in last week's thread that I would be shocked if the GPK didn't screw over CDB. :)

As to your other point, it's actually something I struggle with a bit. There's a lot I like about this show, and sometimes I wonder if focusing on its weaknesses has diminished my enjoyment of the things I do like. That's why I appreciate reading posts from those who really liked the episodes just as much as the more critical comments.

At its core, my biggest problem with the show right now is I hate this Negan story line and the gymnastics taking place to justify dragging it out far beyond its sell-by date. The showrunners, on the other hand, are completely enamored with this character. All signs point to Negan sticking around for *at least* another whole season. I wish I could find the post, but someone upthread listed all the things which had to take place in order for Negan *not* to be taken out by now, despite there being multiple opportunities. It's like they're neutering competent characters in order to stretch out a story line that doesn't translate to screen very well.

I *think* this season is supposed to have taken place over the course of two or three weeks. The problem is, the pacing has been so poor it *feels like* it's been much longer than that. That makes it difficult, for me anyway, to empathize with Rosita, for example, even though I know she, along with everybody else, is in shock. They've been switching around timelines without being clear about when certain things are taking place, so I find myself repeatedly wondering how one character was in *x* location and now all of a sudden (s)he's in *y* location. They've played with timelines before, but I never had so much trouble keeping track of the chronology of events.

I don't mind episodes where they focus on a few characters. The problem is most of the season has been comprised of these types of stories, or at least it feels that way to me. Whereas in previous seasons these "slower" (or single group/location) episodes added depth to characters and/or filled in narrative gaps, they're doing it so much now it just grinds the forward momentum to a halt.

I'm not getting the opportunity to connect with characters I care about or are interested in because we only see them once every four or five episodes. Some of the pacing problems could have been alleviated simply by editing the stories differently, e.g., by taking two or three episodes and cutting between stories and locations instead of wasting an entire episode on Tara, for example, when it could (and should) have been the B-story of another, thematically related parallel story line.

All that being said (and back to the episode at hand), I liked Sasha's swansong. I interpreted the flashbacks with Abraham as a combination of actual memories and her own subconscious coming to terms with her impending death. I believe she did have this conversation with Abraham, but her fear of his imminent demise seemed particularly acute, so much so I felt it had to be as much about her being afraid of dying, knowing it was coming, and soon, as it was wishing she could have prevented Abe's death.

22 hours ago, Nashville said:

 

I expect Negan had a whole set of histrionics planned around this little bit of funereal window-dressing - something along the lines of:

"Well, let's open up this coffin here - and see, what did I tell you?  Sasha, safe and sound and beautiful as ever. (Have a nice nap, girl?)  Just like I promised, not a hair harmed on her pretty little head.  Come on out of there, Sasha, and let them get a good look at you."

"...but wait a minute.  Something's wrong now, and what could it be?  Hmmm?  Let me think on it a second.... I got it! What's wrong now is MY -COFFIN - IS - NOW - EMMMMMP-TYYYYY!!!   Now, that's not right!  I came here with a full coffin, and you know it's JUST NOT RIGHT for me to be leaving with an empty coffin!  I mean, what use is an empty coffin to anybody?  A coffin without a body in it - why, that's just hauling around dead weight, isn't it?  ("Dead weight" - get it?)  So I guess we should remedy this situation IMMEDIATELY!!!"

"Soooooo, Ricky... who are we going to put in my coffin?  Tell you what - I'll let YOU pick...."

Reading comments like these doesn't help when you're trying to read incognito at work, particularly when you laugh and choke on coffee at the same time. Well played, sir. ;)

[Gobi]

This seems as good a place as any to discuss this. I've been wondering what's happened with Darryl, once one of the most interesting characters in the show. I think the problem is that he is a non-comics character, and TPTB are having increasing difficulty shoehorning him into the comics' storyline that they are following more closely.

In the past, I think they have had Darryl do things that some other characters in the comics did. Hardly conducive to a consistent character, either.

Take the whole "Darryl goes to the Sanctuary and escapes" subplot out of the  series, and what's changed? Nothing, really. And that's the  problem. Either Darryl has to do something that a major character did in the comics (problematic), or he is reduced to a glorified extra. 

Even CDB's interaction with Dwight (a comics character) is not dependent on Darryl.

There are times when it seems like Darryl is Bruce Willis' character from The Sixth Sense. He's there, but he's not really there. Think about it. Take Darryl out of the scene with Dwight in the cell, and you wouldn't have to change a word of the script. Dwight's dialogue could be the same without Darryl's knife in his face.

Maybe that's why the GPK (non-comics characters) were introduced. So Darryl can go all Rambo on their backstabbing asses, without affecting the comics' storyline.

[Sighed I]

6 hours ago, HighMaintenance said:

How did Shiva know to attack the bad guys and not an Alexandrian?  If you review the episode you will see Ezekiel just off camera with a laser pointer.

As someone owned by a feline, the imagery this brought up made me LOL!! I have really got to stop reading this forum at work.

[AngelaHunter]

32 minutes ago, Gobi said:

This seems as good a place as any to discuss this. I've been wondering what's happened with Darryl, once one of the most interesting characters in the show. I think the problem is that he is a non-comics character, and TPTB are having increasing difficulty shoehorning him into the comics' storyline that they are following more closely.

I too have wondered about Daryl's downward spiral into mere (if filthy) window dressing. I think you outlined it nicely. If anyone in CDB had a pet dog (and hadn't eaten it) it would be interchangeable with Daryl. He grunts, he paces, he lunges, he growls.  I've said for quite awhile that he turned into Rick's mute lapdog but couldn't figure out just exactly how that happened.

Quote

 

Nashville said:

"...but wait a minute.  Something's wrong now, and what could it be?  Hmmm?  Let me think on it a second.... I got it! What's wrong now is MY -COFFIN - IS - NOW - EMMMMMP-TYYYYY!!!   Now, that's not right!  I came here with a full coffin, and you know it's JUST NOT RIGHT for me to be leaving with an empty coffin!  I mean, what use is an empty coffin to anybody?  A coffin without a body in it - why, that's just hauling around dead weight, isn't it?  ("Dead weight" - get it?)  So I guess we should remedy this situation IMMEDIATELY!!!"

"Soooooo, Ricky... who are we going to put in my coffin?  Tell you what - I'll let YOU pick...."

 

Sprinkle a few dozen variations of F-bombs in there and I'd say you nailed him perfectly.

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, Sighed I said:

Speaking for myself, I did say in last week's thread that I would be shocked if the GPK didn't screw over CDB. :)

As to your other point, it's actually something I struggle with a bit. There's a lot I like about this show, and sometimes I wonder if focusing on its weaknesses has diminished my enjoyment of the things I do like. That's why I appreciate reading posts from those who really liked the episodes just as much as the more critical comments.

At its core, my biggest problem with the show right now is I hate this Negan story line and the gymnastics taking place to justify dragging it out far beyond its sell-by date. The showrunners, on the other hand, are completely enamored with this character. All signs point to Negan sticking around for *at least* another whole season. I wish I could find the post, but someone upthread listed all the things which had to take place in order for Negan *not* to be taken out by now, despite there being multiple opportunities. It's like they're neutering competent characters in order to stretch out a story line that doesn't translate to screen very well.

I *think* this season is supposed to have taken place over the course of two or three weeks. The problem is, the pacing has been so poor it *feels like* it's been much longer than that. That makes it difficult, for me anyway, to empathize with Rosita, for example, even though I know she, along with everybody else, is in shock. They've been switching around timelines without being clear about when certain things are taking place, so I find myself repeatedly wondering how one character was in *x* location and now all of a sudden (s)he's in *y* location. They've played with timelines before, but I never had so much trouble keeping track of the chronology of events.

I don't mind episodes where they focus on a few characters. The problem is most of the season has been comprised of these types of stories, or at least it feels that way to me. Whereas in previous seasons these "slower" (or single group/location) episodes added depth to characters and/or filled in narrative gaps, they're doing it so much now it just grinds the forward momentum to a halt.

I'm not getting the opportunity to connect with characters I care about or are interested in because we only see them once every four or five episodes. Some of the pacing problems could have been alleviated simply by editing the stories differently, e.g., by taking two or three episodes and cutting between stories and locations instead of wasting an entire episode on Tara, for example, when it could (and should) have been the B-story of another, thematically related parallel story line.

All that being said (and back to the episode at hand), I liked Sasha's swansong. I interpreted the flashbacks with Abraham as a combination of actual memories and her own subconscious coming to terms with her impending death. I believe she did have this conversation with Abraham, but her fear of his imminent demise seemed particularly acute, so much so I felt it had to be as much about her being afraid of dying, knowing it was coming, and soon, as it was wishing she could have prevented Abe's death.

Reading comments like these doesn't help when you're trying to read incognito at work, particularly when you laugh and choke on coffee at the same time. Well played, sir. ;)

I will say that when you focus on something, that soon begins to be all you can see.  It's like buying an antique vase and afterwards realizing there's a small crack in it.  You can turn the crack to the wall and enjoy your antique, or you can leave the crack in view and pretty soon that's all you'll see.

It's not a perfect show.  There is no such thing.  There's a lot of talk on here about the Sopranos.  But, I will tell you, I watched it and I hated it and won't watch it, again.

This is a show based on a comic book, plain and simple.  It's not perfect and it's not fine art.  It's meant to be entertainment.  And, I think it is.  If you don't, I honestly don't understand the rationale for turning on the tv week after week.

As for Negan's story line, I hate him, too.  I hated him before he came on, but I watch because I'm interested in the people and how they are going to survive this.

And I'm afraid we're in for a long haul, here.  Kirkman LOVES Negan.  From  my understanding (I don't read the comics), he's here to stay.  And I mean forever.  

Spoiler

He eventually becomes some kind of anti hero.  Yeah, I don't know what that means, either.  But, it means he ain't going anywhere.

I'll stand him as long as I can, and when I can't tolerate him anymore, I'll change the channel.

[uoflfan]

5 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Actually, Shiva is a really big guy in a blue suit.

TWD also has a mechanical Shiva.  Amongst all the bad CGI, Shiva is the one thing TWD has gotten right.

Edited April 4, 2017 by uoflfan

[Dodginblue]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Again, can't speak for everyone, but I think you can care about characters but still find plenty of complaints with a show. I can't see any of the posters here putting up a pretense. There's no reason to. 

This would be a pretty dull place if the only commenting was about how great the show is.  Not that there's anything wrong with that point of view.  There are certain episodes of this show that I think were really great TV.  I think the first episode was wonderful.  I didn't even see it when it first came on.  I tuned in maybe three or four episodes in and didn't catch the beginning until much later.   I also thought the Sanctuary episode was really well done.  I get the chills just thinking about them lined up at that trough with the blood running down the middle.  Very scary stuff.  

There have been a lot of things about this show that were really compelling and there's been some great acting.  And up until the beginning of last season, with the introduction of Negan, it's been a show that I've recommended to other people as must-see, people who I know aren't into horror but share my taste in what I think of as TV for grown-ups.  

Not so much anymore.  Now it's kind of like watching the old Batman episodes from the 60s TV show.  I keep expecting Kapow!  and Wham! to appear in bubbles above the characters' heads.  A lot of corny dialogue and silly costumes and ridiculous plots.  Except for the gratuitous blood and gore.  Which reminds me of the Sons of Anarchy, another really well done show until Kurt Sutter ran out of ideas apparently and resorted to lots of murder and mayhem.

They can't even do major fight scenes that well on TWD anymore.  I remember the second Governor attack on the prison, where they had a tank.  Now it's garbage trucks and bicycles.  Oh and horses.  And a tiger.  It could be a jamboree at some low rent Wild West theme park.  

[raven]

7 hours ago, LadyMustang65 said:

Jerry is the heavyset young man who attends King Ezekiel.  He's a sweetie.  :)

and he brings the cobbler!

I'm here for Rick's crazy eyes *fans self*  and least he rendered Negan speechless for a couple of seconds.

I admit I wasn't paying 100% attention, but Dwight is a liar.  He had many chances to shoot Negan - was standing right beside him - but shot at the Kingdom people when they showed up.  Maybe Dwight said he was going to go undercover, I don't remember.

OK, I laughed at Negan's "damn, the widow's alive, guns a-blazin!" and every time Shiva jumped into the frame and ate someone. hee hee.

Damn, I wish we had seen Michonne throw the blonde bimbo off the roof.

It took a ball or two for Eugene to calmly lie to Negan's angry face about how Sasha died.

Quote

This is a show based on a comic book, plain and simple.  It's not perfect and it's not fine art.  It's meant to be entertainment.

Yup, as long as I'm entertained, I'll keep watching.   I liked Maggie's VO at the end.

Oh, and I never worry about who's watching Judith :D

[AngelaHunter]

3 minutes ago, Dodginblue said:

They can't even do major fight scenes that well on TWD anymore.  I remember the second Governor attack on the prison, where they had a tank.  Now it's garbage trucks and bicycles.  Oh and horses.  And a tiger.  It could be a jamboree at some low rent Wild West theme park.  

Really, I'm not that demanding when it comes to my TeeVee entertainment but when I saw the bicycles and the garbage truck, I rose from my stupor long enough to think, "What da fuq??"

 

5 minutes ago, Dodginblue said:

 Now it's kind of like watching the old Batman episodes from the 60s TV show.  I keep expecting Kapow!  and Wham! to appear in bubbles above the characters' heads.

I know! Someone made a video with cartoon sounds like that, if only I could find it.

[smorbie]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

And the other 5 minutes is Negan doing his back bends.

God, he's tiresome.

To be fair he was leaning to the side when he displayed the coffin with Sasha in inside.  I kept wondering why he looked so weird, and then I figured it out.  He was leaning the wrong way.

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

This seems as good a place as any to discuss this. I've been wondering what's happened with Darryl, once one of the most interesting characters in the show. I think the problem is that he is a non-comics character, and TPTB are having increasing difficulty shoehorning him into the comics' storyline that they are following more closely.

In the past, I think they have had Darryl do things that some other characters in the comics did. Hardly conducive to a consistent character, either.

Take the whole "Darryl goes to the Sanctuary and escapes" subplot out of the  series, and what's changed? Nothing, really. And that's the  problem. Either Darryl has to do something that a major character did in the comics (problematic), or he is reduced to a glorified extra. 

Even CDB's interaction with Dwight (a comics character) is not dependent on Darryl.

There are times when it seems like Darryl is Bruce Willis' character from The Sixth Sense. He's there, but he's not really there. Think about it. Take Darryl out of the scene with Dwight in the cell, and you wouldn't have to change a word of the script. Dwight's dialogue could be the same without Darryl's knife in his face.

Maybe that's why the GPK (non-comics characters) were introduced. So Darryl can go all Rambo on their backstabbing asses, without affecting the comics' storyline.

I tend to agree that Daryl has been underutilized the last year or so.  And tbh, I was really sorry when I heard them say they were going to be sticking more closely to the comics.  I liked when they were blazing their own path, rather than following one already laid out.

[oakville]

On 4/3/2017 at 3:57 AM, JyDanzig said:

The final battle wasn't even that well filmed!  That's particularly frustrating.  It's progression was so unclear, you couldn't really follow some of the various power shifts.  "Now everyone is captured suddenly!"  How did that happen?

And, as others have said, why was there no actual plan here?  Most of the satisfaction of this kind of story should be in seeing the characters construct and implement an intricate plan.  I didn't need 8 episodes to get to "find guns, give half to dumpster weirdos who immediately betray you, barely survive thanks to random tiger."

The Garbage Pail Kids is the worst group of villains in the history of the Walking Dead. It is completely illogical that grown adults & teens would lose the ability to speak 3 years after a zombie apocalypse.

[smorbie]

29 minutes ago, Sighed I said:

As someone owned by a feline, the imagery this brought up made me LOL!! I have really got to stop reading this forum at work.

The feline who runs this household is so uninterested in laser pointers.  I'll get one and try to get him to play and he just walks up to my and grabs the pointer.  But he just puts it down; it's not his thing.  

Give him a ribbon on the other hand and them's good times.

[AngelaHunter]

4 minutes ago, oakville said:

The Garbage Pail Kids is the worst group of villains in the history of the Walking Dead.

If memory serves, they may be the worst group of villains in the history of television, period. I'd find a bunch of alien space hippies (a la Star Trek) chanting "Herbert! Herbert!" at Rick more believable and engaging.

[smorbie]

20 minutes ago, raven said:

and he brings the cobbler!

I'm here for Rick's crazy eyes *fans self*  and least he rendered Negan speechless for a couple of seconds.

I admit I wasn't paying 100% attention, but Dwight is a liar.  He had many chances to shoot Negan - was standing right beside him - but shot at the Kingdom people when they showed up.  Maybe Dwight said he was going to go undercover, I don't remember.

OK, I laughed at Negan's "damn, the widow's alive, guns a-blazin!" and every time Shiva jumped into the frame and ate someone. hee hee.

Damn, I wish we had seen Michonne throw the blonde bimbo off the roof.

It took a ball or two for Eugene to lie to Negan's angry face about how Sasha died.

Yup, as long as I'm entertained, I'll keep watching.   I liked Maggie's VO at the end.

Oh, and I never worry about who's watching Judith :D

It's one of those endless, tedious questions, isn't it?  Who watches the baby?  Who mows the grass? What did Jenner really whisper to Rick?  How come the gas is still good and the cars still drive?  That one has a corollary.  Where are all the cars?  Why don't they drive everywhere?  How can they have so much ammo?

There are simple answers to those questions.

1.  Judith is self sufficient.

2.  Hank Hill

3.  He told him Shane was the father of Lori's baby.

4.  Because.

5.  see above.

6.  They have leveled up and been given infinite ammo.

[raven]

5 minutes ago, smorbie said:

I tend to agree that Daryl has been underutilized the last year or so.  And tbh, I was really sorry when I heard them say they were going to be sticking more closely to the comics.  I liked when they were blazing their own path, rather than following one already laid out.

They haven't known what do with Daryl for a while now.  It's too bad because he was fun and snarky when he was introduced.  Even as he got a little maudlin after Merle's death he was still OK - he cared about others, he and Rick had the brotherly bond.  Now he just glowers and grunts. 

They need to zero in on the core characters - there are too many extras and only so many lines to go around in the script.  The garbage idiots were a mistake (though they didn't get many lines, heh). 

I like JDM but Negan has never appeared threatening; Kirkman et al just assumed that everyone reads the comics and would be intimidated by him but instead on screen we see no reason why people follow him, why someone hasn't killed him already, etc.  He doesn't inspire affection or loyalty among his closest crew; he's supposed to inspire fear but he doesn't. 

JDM can definitely be an intelligent, threatening villain; TWD is not using his strengths as an actor; some of the choices made (the bending) just don't work.  He needs to put on weight too.

[Dodginblue]

1 minute ago, oakville said:

The Garbage Pail Kids is the worst group of villains in the history of the Walking Dead. It is completely illogical that grown adults & teens would lose the ability to speak 3 ye

I posted my theory earlier in this thread that it's a put on.  They've adopted this way of talking deliberately, it's not that they couldn't speak regular American English, or something close to it, they choose not to.  Which it's my theory so I like it but I also think I could see a group coming together and looking for ways to bond, a sort of tribal identification.  We are This, everyone else is Other.  It's the only way I can stand to watch them and not become really annoyed, by seeing it as something that from an anthropological standpoint could actually happen.

[smorbie]

I don't read the comics, but the pictures I have seen show him to be an incredibly physically imposing man.  I could catch JDM in a good lean, put one finger on his chest, and knock him over.

[AngelaHunter]

9 minutes ago, smorbie said:

 I could catch JDM in a good lean, put one finger on his chest, and knock him over.

I thought he looked like he may have gained back a pound or two. His face doesn't look so wrecked. (Never ever starve yourself when you're a certain age. You'll end up looking 90 even if you're only 50) Whoever has been force-feeding him the lard needs to step up the injections. Besides, it's not awe-inspiring when the murderous leader of a bunch of thugs looks like he's not getting any of the food.

[smorbie]

Someone so scrawny just doesn't inspire fear.  It's like if they cast Don Knotts.

[AngelaHunter]

1 minute ago, smorbie said:

It's like if they cast Don Knotts.

Hahaha!!! Barney Fife.

I think Ray Stevenson would have been much better. Guy's huge and intimidating. Too bad he can't "get" American accents.

 

[raven]

JDM is a good looking guy, they could have gone with charming, persuasive and deadly.  There's just too....much....dialogue with him and not much of it good.  Plus the aforementioned too skinny/breakable looking.

[smorbie]

I don't really watch a lot of tv, so this is the only thing I've ever seen him in.  But someone told me he tends to be garrulous in all his roles.

[smorbie]

On 4/3/2017 at 6:53 PM, meep.meep said:

You know you have to claim him.  Then, watch your throat.

Was Maggie's oration at the end supposed to be inspirational?   It just seemed endless.

I just watched it again, and while it did go on a bit too long, it made more sense this time.  It was a tribute to the wonderful Glen, who was really the heart of the group as well as it's moral compass.  he was also the most level headed of them all.  I have to wonder how the season would have played out if Rick had had the benefit of Glen's counsel.  

Sniff.

[ganesh]

I'm five minutes in, and I'm already rolling my eyes with the pretentious out of time scenes. I assumed Negan was going to bite it this episode. I'm unspoiled, but I'm guessing no.

I have to concede that Negan one on one with Sasha wasn't insufferable. I got a little flash of intelligence from him. Though I was like, "what we built?" Dude, you're a two bit wannabe crime lord. Stahp. 

All this "It's about to happen. Decisions have to be made." How about just doing that instead?

I liked how Michonne basically said, "No I don't think so" with one facial expression when the Garbage Pail Queen or whatever we're calling her said, "I'll lay with him after."

Edited April 5, 2017 by ganesh

[AngelaHunter]

27 minutes ago, smorbie said:

 I have to wonder how the season would have played out if Rick had had the benefit of Glen's counsel.  

Glenn's counsel and common sense did no good when Rick wanted to go and murder the Neganites in their sleep with no clue what he was doing. No reason to think he could have changed anything this time and kept Rick from falling head over heels in love with the garbage pickers. RIck is all or nothing. He never seems to look past his own nose.

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, HighMaintenance said:

but because it is cathartic to me (and possibly to many viewers) to bitch about a show that we once truly enjoyed.

Additionally, a show that has near limitless potential, and ridiculous to me how they squandered it left and right to basically do the same deal for 5+ years. 

I have to agree with some of the other comments that Negan "puts on a show" like Ezekiel. I think it's a bad show, but the point has merit. I don't think he's that much of a strategic thinker, so his overall 'performance' lacks believability to me because why would anyone buy into this?

I didn't see the GPKs coming, but at least there's some shred of buy-in since everyone is on top of one another. I'm kind of rolling my eyes, but I won't call bs on it. 
 

On 4/3/2017 at 5:22 PM, 2Old2BAFangirl said:

 I also wished someone would just make the sacrifice and shoot Negan while he was blathering before the Sasha reveal.

I was NOT expecting the Sasha reveal, so that was interesting. Although, Eugene could have snuck her a knife and that would have been, you know, actually strategic. 

Honestly, fighting on horseback seems like such a huge advantage in this world, one would think more people would have realized this. "Hey, let's go on surgical missions and puncture all their gas tanks, and we'll take all the horses." They can do some reasonably cool stuff on the show, but it's borne out of just myopia. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by ganesh

[maystone]

1 hour ago, Dodginblue said:

I posted my theory earlier in this thread that it's a put on.  They've adopted this way of talking deliberately, it's not that they couldn't speak regular American English, or something close to it, they choose not to.  Which it's my theory so I like it but I also think I could see a group coming together and looking for ways to bond, a sort of tribal identification.  We are This, everyone else is Other.  It's the only way I can stand to watch them and not become really annoyed, by seeing it as something that from an anthropological standpoint could actually happen.

I posted something similar when they were first introduced. I truly believe this is a group that existed before the ZA hit (at least the core members), and they'd created this in-group communication style to set themselves apart like any good little cult would.

[Dodginblue]

Just now, maystone said:

I posted something similar when they were first introduced. I truly believe this is a group that existed before the ZA hit (at least the core members), and they'd created this in-group communication style to set themselves apart like any good little cult would.

I hadn't thought about them being in place before the ZA but yes, I can see that happening.   Maybe some RPG group, Dungeons and Dragons or something.  Do people still play that?

[Johnny Dollar]

I can accept JDM's relative scrawniness as Negan, but wearing Aeropostale low-rise skinny jeans doesn't exactly strike fear. 

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, uoflfan said:

TWD also has a mechanical Shiva.  Amongst all the bad CGI, Shiva is the one thing TWD has gotten right.

One thought which crossed my mind: blowing 95% of the CGI budget on Shiva is why the rest of the CGI has been so bad.

[smorbie]

6 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Glenn's counsel and common sense did no good when Rick wanted to go and murder the Neganites in their sleep with no clue what he was doing. No reason to think he could have changed anything this time and kept Rick from falling head over heels in love with the garbage pickers. RIck is all or nothing. He never seems to look past his own nose.

You have a point.

Rick's embrace of the heapsters had to do with his belief that he lived in a binary world.  He thought everyone was either a savior or a victim of them.  He had just come from meeting with two groups of the latter, so he thought, in his desperation, that any group not affiliated with Negan was a good group.  It was perhaps naive, and you can argue that he shouldn't be so naive at this point in the game. 

But, I saw it as a move of sheer desperation.  And, in truth, he was gonna have them as an enemy or as a friend.  Now that the cockroaches were aware of Alexandria, they weren't going to leave them alone.

[smorbie]

6 hours ago, ganesh said:

Additionally, a show that has near limitless potential, and ridiculous to me how they squandered it left and right to basically do the same deal for 5+ years. 

I have to agree with some of the other comments that Negan "puts on a show" like Ezekiel. I think it's a bad show, but the point has merit. I don't think he's that much of a strategic thinker, so his overall 'performance' lacks believability to me because why would anyone buy into this?

I didn't see the GPKs coming, but at least there's some shred of buy-in since everyone is on top of one another. I'm kind of rolling my eyes, but I won't call bs on it. 
 

I was NOT expecting the Sasha reveal, so that was interesting. Although, Eugene could have snuck her a knife and that would have been, you know, actually strategic. 

Honestly, fighting on horseback seems like such a huge advantage in this world, one would think more people would have realized this. "Hey, let's go on surgical missions and puncture all their gas tanks, and we'll take all the horses." They can do some reasonably cool stuff on the show, but it's borne out of just myopia. 

Eugene would not have given Sasha a knife to kill Negan because he has fallen in with the monster.  He brought her the pill because it was small and easy to conceal.  If she had used it to kill herself, Negan would have known the knife could only have come from Eugene and to the fire he would be-agoin'.  

Fighting on horseback may come into play during the next season when there is an all out war.  What we just saw was only a skirmish.  Horses wouldn't have been used before because the Kingdom was trying to pacify the saviors and keep the peace.

This technique never seems to work in television or in real life.

6 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I can accept JDM's relative scrawniness as Negan, but wearing Aeropostale low-rise skinny jeans doesn't exactly strike fear. 

nor does the pleather jacker