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S02.E12: Seppuku


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What was the point of the footage up front about Broussard's army/merc time?  I didn't see any relevance.

Well, we know just how venal the collaborators are, now.  They're worse than the Ewings.

It will be interesting to see the reactions as news of the total rendition creeps out. What happens to the LA bloc when it's done?

Did they drop the footage of Noa getting killed for some reason?  It's rather curious to have such an important character killed off screen.  I also wonder what was so essential in those knapsacks that they carried them throughout the fight but never accessed them.  Well, anyway, so long, Red Hand.

I couldn't help smirking a bit every time Snyder or someone mentioned IGA.  Around here that's a group called Independent Grocers Association.

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Oh, Snyder, you magnificent bastard!  I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him but I really enjoy watching him work.  Once again, he's the Bowman family's guardian angel (guardian slimeball?)  I think he honestly cares about the people in the bloc in his own corrupt way.  He wouldn't have been concerned about the population depletion rate if he wasn't.

A rap defector!  I didn't see that one coming.  Suddenly things got a lot more interesting.

2 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

What was the point of the footage up front about Broussard's army/merc time?

Noa's guy on the outside is the guy who worked with Broussard on that operation in Basra that went bad. Check for a tat of Bugs Bunny holding dynamite.

Just as I suspected, the Greatest Day is nothing but bullshit to keep people complacent.

Not sorry to see that fanatic bitch Karen and her annoying Red Hand get destroyed.  She was right, she was an amateur, and it showed.

Send Hudson off to camp, convenient way to fridge the diabetic kid.

Nolan, hell hath no fury...

Next week I think the Bowmans leave the bloc, everyone in LA gets deported or glassed, and I hope that isn't the series finale.

Edited by GreyBunny
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I was speculating that the Bowmans and their allies would leave the colony and join the resistance as a reset for the next season and after last night's episode, I think that I might be right. I am confident that Snyder will save Maddie and Hudson before they get sent to the factory. He will reunite with Will and help them escape to join Broussard's buddy and his crew.  It is a good twist that they are allied with an alien who defected. It makes sense that not all the aliens would agree with oppressing and killing humans. I look forward to seeing what they look like.

Snyder has got to be one of the most interesting characters that has come along in a sci fi show in a long time. He isn't a good man. He has done terrible things, but has all these conflicting motivations. He is clearly determined to survive, but he is also trying to save as many humans as he can in hopes that one day they can fight back. He knew the Greatest Day was bullshit. I wonder if this means that he also knows what the aliens real plans are and why Broussard and Will are on that list?

Farewell, Nolan. Terrible man who betrayed the women in his life. I laughed when Snyder snarked about him being sent to the factory.

I really hope this show gets renewed. It is finally coming into its own.

ETA: Maddie really no survival instincts. First, she doesn't take Hudson and leave with Bram, and then she sends Hudson away when they were in so much danger and things were so uncertain. I wonder they are doing to him and those other kids.

Edited by SimoneS
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Props to whoever posted that Will is obviously on some special list since he wasn't shredded by the drone going over the wall with Charlie, and that Brussard was probably on the list too.  I think last night confirmed that.

And Dowel Jones, I thought the same thing.  We used to have IGA supermarkets in my area.  My first thought was, "MAN - IGA has gone bad ass!"

 

IGA.jpeg

Edited by Trace
Put 2 L's in Dowel
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Of course the global conspiracy is run out of Davos!

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I really hope this show gets renewed. It is finally coming into its own.

I agree. I wasn't convinced after the first season, but this season I think the writers have done a much better job conveying the politics of the occupation. 

That long shot of the group storming the theater was technically impressive and very suspenseful. 

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6 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

A rap defector!  I didn't see that one coming.  Suddenly things got a lot more interesting.

Noa's guy on the outside is the guy who worked with Broussard on that operation in Basra that went bad. Check for a tat of Bugs Bunny holding dynamite.

Just as I suspected, the Greatest Day is nothing but bullshit to keep people complacent.

Not sorry to see that fanatic bitch Karen and her annoying Red Hand get destroyed.  She was right, she was an amateur, and it showed.

 

Yes, a RAP defector changes the dynamic considerably, as will their probable flight from the bloc.

My thought, until I read your post, was that for some reason the Basra operation is how Broussard got on the list and that the "suit" was one of those early collaborators.

Karen died too easily for my blood thirsty tastes, and I wanted a Ripley/Alien moment for Katie. But dead is still good.

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Snyder has got to be one of the most interesting characters that has come along in a sci fi show in a long time. He isn't a good man. He has done terrible things, but has all these conflicting motivations. He is clearly determined to survive, but he is also trying to save as many humans as he can in hopes that one day they can fight back. He knew the Greatest Day was bullshit. I wonder if this means that he also knows what the aliens real plans are and why Broussard and Will are on that list?

Farewell, Nolan. Terrible man who betrayed the women in his life. I laughed when Snyder snarked about him being sent to the factory.

Yes, everything you said about Snyder. I love that he doesn't have any pretensions about being anything other than self-serving (though he does do some good along the way). In a way, he's the most honest one of all.

1 hour ago, Trace said:

Props to whoever posted that Will is obviously on some special list since he wasn't shredded by the drone going over the wall with Charlie, and that Brussard was probably on the list too.  I think last night confirmed that.

I think that might have been me. :) I slapped my head when, of course, Broussard was on the list too because I totally believed he'd been killed and had forgotten all about the list.

5 minutes ago, xaxat said:

That long shot of the group storming the theater was technically impressive and very suspenseful. 

Yes. And one example of why professionals might just be a bit better at this sort of thing than amateurs.

Edited by Clanstarling
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1 hour ago, xaxat said:

Of course the global conspiracy is run out of Davos!

I agree. I wasn't convinced after the first season, but this season I think the writers have done a much better job conveying the politics of the occupation. 

  

That was my first reaction when I saw the original meeting with the Global Authority -- "Hey they are in Davos!"  My one issue with the politics is that it seems the resistance is all American while the leadership of the collaboration is mostly European and Asian.  But maybe that is part of the conceit of it all -- make us think about it. 

The guy Broussard was playing pool with in Basra, wasn't he the guy at the VFW Hall that chats with Broussard?

 

And if Broussard is on an "alien love list" like Will, did they wait to destroy the VFW Hall until they were sure he was out?  And if the aliens did tap into the chain of command why not just tell Broussard to go somewhere else?  (As an aside, that was something I did not get -- the US military plan in case of alien invasion supposedly is grab everything and head for the hills.  Why was Broussard the only one not to think it was a set up to be ordered to concentrate?)

And why not try to recruit or grab Broussard and Will before the invasion?  Did they figure that their patriotism and ethics would not allow it?

The resistance outside the LA colony -- presumably the core at least  were military who either smelled a rat and headed for the hills (and eventually met up) or they were off on leave or training and hence not in the cities to be concentrated and killed. 

Too many questions -- it needs to be renewed 

Edited by amcalabrese
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8 minutes ago, amcalabrese said:

And why not try to recruit or grab Broussard and Will before the invasion?  Did they figure that their patriotism and ethics would not allow it?

My theory, as thin as it is, is that they're on the list precisely because they couldn't be recruited or turned. There is some greater purpose for them that requires that kind of honor and dedication - unlike the current set of collaborators.

I do like the idea that they waited until Broussard was out - but I'm not sure they would have known he was in there. I kind of prefer to thinking that Broussard was just that much better than the others.

Edited by Clanstarling
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I don't think Snyder knew what the Aliens want, he just wants to live another day and in that , he makes as many "friends" as he can. He can identify the best survivalists.  he is not a cruel person by nature, he knows the bad he does, I think his executing a few people to save the majority was one way to make him look cruel while saving more.  I expect he will know the way out but can't get out by himself, hence the help of the Browards. 

Yep, next year it will be set in the woods and caves.

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While I know this show is science fiction, I lived in southern California for years and have many family members in that area.  It tends to hit home with me and creep me out somewhat.  We live in such a crazy world these days - I've gotten to where I never discount anything happening. I just can't quit this show!

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It's definitely more interesting having Will on the side of the good guys rather than being a naive idiot trying to walk a fine line. Leave that fine line walking to Snyder.  He does it so well and like the cockroach he is will be the last one standing  

Sarah Callies looks ridiculous toting a rifle, pretending to be all badass. 

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11 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Snyder has got to be one of the most interesting characters that has come along in a sci fi show in a long time. He isn't a good man. He has done terrible things, but has all these conflicting motivations. He is clearly determined to survive, but he is also trying to save as many humans as he can in hopes that one day they can fight back.

I agree.  Snyder and Newt Scamander are two of the most refreshing fantasy/sci-fi characters I've come across in a long time.  Honorable mention to Oswald Danes from Torchwood, the villain who sacrificed himself to save the world, not because he's a better person than people thought, but far, far worse. I thought that was a nice twist.    

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17 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I couldn't help smirking a bit every time Snyder or someone mentioned IGA.  Around here that's a group called Independent Grocers Association.

I got a little laugh out of that, we have those around here too.

Wow Nolan, making sure he gets one last sexytime with Maddie before her arrest.   I really enjoyed watching him being dragged off, so thank you Snyder!

Maddie, you should have just kept driving last week with Hudson and Bram.  Now you don't even know where your kid is.  I did feel badly for her but you NEVER send your kid somewhere based on what the man who sent his wife to the factory so he could keep you around during the alien assimilation says.

Immediately after the raid, when Katie asks where Broussard is,  all the women and men look worn out and dirty except for Katie, who looks as dewy and fresh faced as if she just got out of the makeup chair. 

12 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Snyder has got to be one of the most interesting characters that has come along in a sci fi show in a long time. He isn't a good man. He has done terrible things, but has all these conflicting motivations.

He's a favorite of mine, plus he brings some humor.  I hope he figures out a way to help Maddie find Hudson, even if only to help himself some way.  It was entertaining to watch him maneuver around everyone to ultimately get rid of Nolan and then be the trusthworthy (ha!) one next to the Governor.  Not completely trustworthy, since she didn't tell him L.A. bloc is going to be no more.

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Broussard was going to commit an honorable suicide (Seppuku) to take out the Red Hand on that roof in
order to atone for whatever happened in Iraq that he helped to cover up.

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8 hours ago, raven said:

I hope he figures out a way to help Maddie find Hudson, even if only to help himself some way.

When Snyder said he wanted to help Maddie, she said he was really just helping himself.  True, but the two don't have to be mutually exclusive.  You don't need trust; mutual self-interest will work in a pinch.    

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(edited)
19 hours ago, molshoop said:

Broussard was going to commit an honorable suicide (Seppuku) to take out the Red Hand on that roof in
order to atone for whatever happened in Iraq that he helped to cover up.

I would have said more Horatius on at  the Bridge than any Samurai seeking to avoid shame or restore face.  But TPTB probably don't work too hard to come up with an episode title.

Edited by Netfoot
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(edited)

Well, I'm familiar with Seppuku, but not with Horatius at the Bridge. My guess is more people are familiar with the concept of Seppuku than the Babbington poem (which I looked up, but have never seen before, I guess this wasn't covered in my lit classes). I think that familiarity (or lack thereof) might be the reason behind the choice of title.

Edited to add: After seeing that the title of the next episode, I think perhaps there's more to their title choice than my idea that seppuku is more familiar to the audience. I don't know if next episode titles are considered spoilers, especially since the topic was just put up, but just in case, I've put it under a spoilers tag:

Spoiler

The title is Ronin, which seems to tie in fairly well to this episode's title.

Edited by Clanstarling
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On 4/1/2017 at 9:00 AM, Netfoot said:

I would have said more Horatius on at  the Bridge than any Samurai seeking to avoid shame or restore face.  But TPTB probably don't work too hard to come up with an episode title.

"And how can a man die better, than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

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On 2017-03-31 at 7:15 PM, raven said:

Immediately after the raid, when Katie asks where Broussard is,  all the women and men look worn out and dirty except for Katie, who looks as dewy and fresh faced as if she just got out of the makeup chair.

Considering she had the same problem in the Zombie Apocalypse I think its less a make up issue and more that Sarah Wayne Callies has some seriously fantastic skin. In all seriousness I decided to give her a chance because I blamed Fucking Lori on misogynistic writers and I was actually pleased with how Katie is turning out. True SWC is limited but the writers seem to be working with her limits and Katie is actually allowed to learn and has grown into someone I actually really like. True she is still a little insufferable but Katie's moralizing has point. Katie is the ideological center of the resistance without her neither Will nor Broussard would be all that interested in risking their lives for a cause. A good resistance movement needs their zealot Katie actually works well as this groups.

I also like than any love triangle remains as subtext with just a few territorial glares from Will. Hell I bet if you asked Broussard point blank if he was in love with Katie he would deny it. I just hope the writers keep it that way. Unless its a Will and Broussard decide to get drunk and bury the hatchet kind of thing.

Speaking of Will and Broussard my current theory on the no kill list is that its part of the division in the Aliens themselves. Maybe some of them want to save some humans so the compromise is that  some of the humans deemed useful are on the no kill list.

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(edited)
9 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Speaking of Will and Broussard my current theory on the no kill list is that its part of the division in the Aliens themselves. Maybe some of them want to save some humans so the compromise is that  some of the humans deemed useful are on the no kill list.

My theory is that the aliens need to restock themselves as it were.  For some reason they have stopped reproducing.  Maybe a disease or some evolutionary reason is causing them to lose their reproductive drive or capability.  Or maybe they are under attack from another alien civilization, have had huge losses, and now need to rebuild their population.  So they are looking for people (scientists, doctors, soldiers) who fit a certain profile that can be useful to them and maybe adapt to a living in an alien environment.    

 

One question I have on the total rendition decision -- is it just the LA bloc or then entire LA colony?

Edited by amcalabrese
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9 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Speaking of Will and Broussard my current theory on the no kill list is that its part of the division in the Aliens themselves.

It's simple animal husbandry.  When you raise livestock, you eliminate the weak and retain the superior strains so as to improve line.  The actual definition of superior would be dependent on alien goals, naturally, and we don't know if they're to be bred as food, draft-animals or for some other inscrutable purpose.

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1 hour ago, amcalabrese said:

One question I have on the total rendition decision -- is it just the LA bloc or then entire LA colony?

I think bloc/colony has been used interchangeably. I think whatever area is within that section of the walls is what will be subject to rendition.

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  • 2 weeks later...

On 4/1/2017 at 10:56 AM, Clanstarling said:

Well, I'm familiar with Seppuku, but not with Horatius at the Bridge. My guess is more people are familiar with the concept of Seppuku than the Babbington poem (which I looked up, but have never seen before, I guess this wasn't covered in my lit classes). I think that familiarity (or lack thereof) might be the reason behind the choice of title.

  Reveal hidden contents

The title is Ronin, which seems to tie in fairly well to this episode's title.

I only knew Horatius at the Bridge from watching the movie Oblivion. It's a favorite of Tom Cruise's character, and he shares a quote with the alien intelligence "Sally" right before he sacrifices himself blowing her up.

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  • 9 months later...
On 4/4/2017 at 1:10 AM, Emily Thrace said:

Considering she had the same problem in the Zombie Apocalypse I think its less a make up issue and more that Sarah Wayne Callies has some seriously fantastic skin. In all seriousness I decided to give her a chance because I blamed Fucking Lori on misogynistic writers and I was actually pleased with how Katie is turning out.

There were a couple instances in this episode when I momentarily forgot the action and found myself in awe of her face.  Katie is much easier to take than Lori.   

I hope Maddie gets redemption in Season 3.

This show has found a solid footing this season.

Edited by millennium
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