S05.E04: What's the Matter with Kansas?

[gwhh]

8 hours ago, stagmania said:

I kept waiting for the lightbulb moment in that kitchen scene where Paige would realize that her mom is seducing the scientist. It stretches credibility for me a little that she hasn't figured this out yet; does she really think they just become friends with all these people?

There were about three different points in this episode where you could see Phillip stuffing the words he clearly wanted to say back down his throat. He doesn't want them to have to honey trap anymore; it bothers him more than it used to. His effort with the Topeka woman was not his best work.

Gabriel knows it, too. He basically dared them to come out and say that they don't want to fuck other people anymore. Such an uncomfortable stare down.

I'm kind of surprised to see the Centre overloading them again after already driving them to the brink once before. They're going to burn out their top agents, and all that travel has them gone from home way more than they should be. It makes little strategic sense. Surely there are some other attractive young agents that could handle this without having to fly back and forth multiple times a week.

I do wonder if this is where we're heading-a final snap as a result of a poorly conceived mission and the arrival of Phillip's son.

I really liked that final bedroom scene, with Phillip seeming a little jealous and Elizabeth looking at him like he was crazy and explaining how she actually felt about her target. She doesn't appreciate his nice personality or likability, she resents it! I always love those moments where you get a peek into her thought processes, because I think we (and Phillip) can sometimes be fooled into thinking she enjoys the work in a way she doesn't just because she's so much better at compartmentalizing than he is.

Paige is young and does not know what hold having sex with a men puts over him.  After she finds that out.  Its will make a big difference.  Mom is now a tramp and will she have to become a tramp?

After R. Regan got in 1981.  The KGB and all other soviet bloc intel people.  Went into over drive.  because they through regan was going to start world war 3 and the soviet union was coming off the rails and they though Regan was doing it!

Edited March 29, 2017 by gwhh

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, scartact said:

Makes you wonder if Philip and Elizabeth thought about opportunities for growth within the agency when they first joined! Is there a ladder they could move up, from from tailing people a la Hans (RIP) to honeytraps and planting listening devices in sensitive locations, and y'know, all the killing inbetween, to finally managing their own set of spies so they can hang back more? Now I'm just thinking about the KGB spy infrastructure.

Stan really is doing a whole suicide mission thing wrt to Oleg. I'm not sure if it's a calculated enough risk either for the CIA.

The entire character of Stan is completely unfathomable to me. I'm almost to the point where I'll start fast forwarding through his scenes.

[Ina123]

E is so on target when she tells Paige to stop spying. Paige does not yet have the "confidence" that E mentioned. She can't talk her way out of her nervousness. Look how she acts around Matthew. They spent a whole meal at a burger joint with Mathew asking "what's wrong with you" in every way possible. She can't hide it.

It reminds me of a story about Gary Gilmore (Google or Bing). He started his criminal life by walking into convenience stores and walking out with a case of beer. He did it for years over and over. When asked how he got by with it he said, "You just walk in, go to the beer, take it from the cooler and walk out. No eye contact. Clerks don't believe their eyes and when they realize what happened, you're gone." He was brazen. That's what Paige isn't. She can't look "not suspicious". E and P can.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Ina123

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, Bannon said:

What would be the purpose of this trap, with the accompanying risk of a jealous wife's knowledge of E & P's illegal status?

It's basically asking Mrs. Tim to go to the FBI.

[Bannon]

Just now, sistermagpie said:

It's basically asking Mrs. Tim to go to the FBI.

Yeah, I just don't think the writers would blow it so blatantly, and I've been pretty critical of them at times.

[attica]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 

15 minutes ago, Bannon said:

What would be the purpose of this trap, with the accompanying risk of a jealous wife's knowledge of E & P's illegal status?

It's basically asking Mrs. Tim to go to the FBI.

 

Ah, but I think you're missing a critical factor. Which is, bitchez be cray. If Mrs. Groovyhair goes to the feds, all P& E would have to do is say 'You can't believe her; she'd say anything to protect her hubby!' And they would, because even these many decades later, women are default-considered to be unreliable narrators.

[dubbel zout]

Not to mention Mrs. Groovyhair is postpartum. You know the wimmins and those crazy hormones!

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, attica said:

Ah, but I think you're missing a critical factor. Which is, bitchez be cray. If Mrs. Groovyhair goes to the feds, all P& E would have to do is say 'You can't believe her; she'd say anything to protect her hubby!' And they would, because even these many decades later, women are default-considered to be unreliable narrators.

One of the worst intelligence disasters in American history, the entirely self motivated betrayal of Chief Warrant Officer John Walker, was uncovered when his wife got angry, and started calling the FBI, and she was a severe alcoholic who made the calls while heavily intoxicated. No, P &E could not even come close to counting on deflecting the Pastor's wife by calling her crazy, especially since about a half day's work would reveal their false identities. 

[gwhh]

What in Pastor Groveyhair Journal:

Its his hair care journal. You know it's long and detailed.

Edited March 29, 2017 by gwhh

[Chaos Theory]

11 minutes ago, attica said:

Ah, but I think you're missing a critical factor. Which is, bitchez be cray. If Mrs. Groovyhair goes to the feds, all P& E would have to do is say 'You can't believe her; she'd say anything to protect her hubby!' And they would, because even these many decades later, women are default-considered to be unreliable narrators.

Plus they could literally do a murder/suicide if they had to.  No more accidental car crash or getting lost in the African? Desert.   

[Ellaria]

I would be happy if Pastor and Mrs Tim packed up and moved to Costa Rica. They need to get out while they can. As for me, I am bored to tears with their storyline (along with Paige's need to snoop around in their bedroom). Besides, weren't they part of the infamous "dinner for seven" with Stan? Are they aware that the Jennings' neighbor is an FBI agent?

[kokapetl]

Paige doesn't have to actually have sex with Tim, she could pull a Patty/Don maneuver on him, just drug him and wake up nude in bed together. 

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, Chaos Theory said:

Plus they could literally do a murder/suicide if they had to.  No more accidental car crash or getting lost in the African? Desert.   

I know the real Americans are portrayed as being pretty stupid in this show, but if they have the Pastor's wife go to the FBI, and P & E evade arrest by staging a murder suicide, I'm done. Now, if you are proposing that they get scared enough to bump them off before the Pastor's wife goes to the FBI, I'm not buying Paige would tolerate it, or believe it was a murder/suicide. I really don't want this show, so close to the end, to go down the awful path "Homeland" took for about 2-plus seasons.

1 minute ago, Kokapetl said:

Paige doesn't have to actually have sex with Tim, she could pull a Patty/Don maneuver on him, just drug him and wake up nude in bed together. 

What is the purpose of doing so? To get the pastor's sermons in advance?

[SunnyBeBe]

IMO, Pastor Tim and Alice are just very messy liabilities with few options at P & E's disposal to remedy.  They can't just have a murder suicide, car accident, home invasion by strangers, drowning by flood while on mission, etc. ,because Paige would go ape ship crazy.  So, I suppose they just get dangled. 

[Chaos Theory]

Personally I'm just having fun.  I actually kinda like Pastor Tim and his wife and do think that getting rid of them at this juncture would actually be worse for P&E then just working them.   Right now Pastor Tim actually likes the family and is encouraging Paige enough to give her material written by Karl Marx in the hopes that she can understand her mother better.   Maybe once it might have been a good idea but right now there are far too many drawbacks to killing them.

Plus they make easy early snooping lessons for Paige if Elizabeth does want to go that way.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Kathemy]

44 minutes ago, scartact said:

Makes you wonder if Philip and Elizabeth thought about opportunities for growth within the agency when they first joined! Is there a ladder they could move up, from from tailing people a la Hans (RIP) to honeytraps and planting listening devices in sensitive locations, and y'know, all the killing inbetween, to finally managing their own set of spies so they can hang back more?

It really is the only thing that would make sense. Yes, I get that we're supposed to think that the KGB are panicking, but the fact that Claudia and Gabriel are riding them this hard is simply reckless, which only makes their condescenting attitude all the more infuriating. If either Philip or Elizabeth is caught, they've managed to burn four active or potential operatives, each one immensely valuable. In a best case scenario, the kids will be "self-going" in just a few years, but right now, if someone drops a nuke in that family structure it's game over.

[kokapetl]

11 minutes ago, Bannon said:

What is the purpose of doing so? To get the pastor's sermons in advance?

To make Pastor Tim look like a sexual predator. 

Drugging Tim and having him wake up naked in the same bed as Henry, that would be far more effective. 

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, Chaos Theory said:

Personally I'm just having fun.  I actually kinda like Pastor Tim and his wife and do think that getting rid of them at this juncture would actually be worse for P&E then just working them.   Right now Pastor Tim actually likes the family and is encouraging Paige enough to give her material written by Karl Marx in the hopes that they can understand each other better.  Maybe once it might have been a good idea but right now there are far too many drawbacks to killing them.

Plus they make easy early snooping lessons for Paige of Elizabeth does want to go that way.

I can make myself accept the idea that P & E would tolerate Tim and Mrs. Tim's knowledge of their status, because there were lefitist clergypeople in the 80s who really thought there was little ethical difference between the government of Stalin's heirs, and the American government, but that's why it would really be dumb for E & P to risk alienating Mrs. Tim. It is much, much, much, better for E to remain consistent in telling Paige to do no snooping, or anything else which would cause the pastor and his wife to raise an eyebrow.

1 minute ago, Kokapetl said:

To make Pastor Tim look like a sexual predator. 

Drugging Tim and having him wake up naked in the same bed as Henry, that would be far more effective. 

Why would destroying Tim, with the risk that Paige (and Tim's wife) would be alienated, be a project that P & E would pursue?

[kokapetl]

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I can make myself accept the idea that P & E would tolerate Tim and Mrs. Tim's knowledge of their status, because there were lefitist clergypeople in the 80s who really thought there was little ethical difference between the government of Stalin's heirs, and the American government, but that's why it would really be dumb for E & P to risk alienating Mrs. Tim. It is much, much, much, better for E to remain consistent in telling Paige to do no snooping, or anything else which would cause the pastor and his wife to raise an eyebrow.

Why would destroying Tim, with the risk that Paige (and Tim's wife) would be alienated, be a project that P & E would pursue?

They don't need to destroy Tim, just have something incriminating to keep him and his wife under their thumb. 

[SWLinPHX]

6 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think Oleg's mom handled it well and handled it like anyone who knows way to much loss and doesn't want to lose the one good thing she has left would.  "Do what yo have to.  Don't worry about me."  

So what was she saying in essence?  "Don't end up like me in prison; cooperate with the U.S. government without worrying about loyalty to the Soviet Union which is so harsh" -- OR -- "I stuck it out for my country and so should you.  Loyalty at all costs!"

Edited March 29, 2017 by SWLinPHX

[Bannon]

Just now, Kokapetl said:

They don't need to destroy Tim, just have something incriminating to keep him and his wife under their thumb. 

I really don't buy that they could count on Tim's wife on staying blackmailed. Or Tim, for that matter. Blackmail isn't nearly as reliable as it has been portrayed on this show, and that has been with people who had a far more tenuous connection to E & P. Tim and his wife's connection to them is pretty extensive, and Tim and his wife have the ability to see E & P locked up in 23-plus hour a day solitary, for the rest of their lives. Possibly Paige as well. I just don't believe they could count on it working, and not backfiring. Your mileage may vary, of course.

[kokapetl]

Just now, Bannon said:

I really don't buy that they could count on Tim's wife on staying blackmailed. Or Tim, for that matter. Blackmail isn't nearly as reliable as it has been portrayed on this show, and that has been with people who had a far more tenuous connection to E & P. Tim and his wife's connection to them is pretty extensive, and Tim and his wife have the ability to see E & P locked up in 23-plus hour a day solitary, for the rest of their lives. Possibly Paige as well. I just don't believe they could count on it working, and not backfiring. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Live underage boys will get Tim locked up. 

[SWLinPHX]

4 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

16 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Man, I totally didn't see Stan manning up for Oleg. I didn't know they had that kind of relationship. 

I'm not surprised. There has always been a great deal of respect between Oleg and Stan. Each recognizes the mirror image of himself. They want to do good, but they are not ideological zealots like Elizabeth. Each one has personal limits, each one has a line he will not cross for the good of country. Related to that, is that when they feel thier country/agency is doing something wrong, they have no problem doing something illegal to set it right. 

...and yet they would have Oleg believe it was Stan who betrayed him and set him up for the impossible situation he is in now.  That will really piss me off if Oleg doesn't realize that Stan was sincere and is sacrificing a lot for him still, even now.

[Bannon]

Just now, Kokapetl said:

Live underage boys will get Tim locked up. 

Yes and a good defense attorney, who shows that that the accusation is credibly tied to two people, living the rest of their lives in solitary confinement as Soviet illegals, will get him out.

We aren't going to agree, and that's O.K..

[SWLinPHX]

4 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

5 hours ago, attica said:

Kudos to Tara for her recap. She correctly identified the horror that is carob, and even more correctly advocated for Matthew Goode to appear on the show as a dude Philip has to seduce. Now that this idea has been planted, I don't think I can rest until it's realized.

I love the idea of Philip having to seduce a man. It was part of his training, but we've never seen him use it. 

Wait, what are you guys referring to with regard to this season.  What man would he have to seduce?

[kokapetl]

2 minutes ago, SWLinPHX said:

Wait, what are you guys referring to with regard to this season.  What man would he have to seduce?

Burly hiker? 

[RedFiat]

I like the idea of Henry and computers. There was a throw away line, "what does Henry do on those computers" or something like that and the answer was I don't know.  Bet the Centre does.   

[SWLinPHX]

20 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Burly hiker? 

The straight hiker who Elizabeth is seducing??

[sistermagpie]

39 minutes ago, Kathemy said:

It really is the only thing that would make sense. Yes, I get that we're supposed to think that the KGB are panicking, but the fact that Claudia and Gabriel are riding them this hard is simply reckless, which only makes their condescenting attitude all the more infuriating. If either Philip or Elizabeth is caught, they've managed to burn four active or potential operatives, each one immensely valuable. In a best case scenario, the kids will be "self-going" in just a few years, but right now, if someone drops a nuke in that family structure it's game over.

Yeah, I sort of wanted Philip to say to Gabriel, when he told them they had to do the job, something like, "Okay, if the Pastor and his wife turn us into the police or our daughter tips off the FBI agent dad of the kid she's dating who's already suspicious we'll just remind you that it was really important for us two to have sex with a couple of randos you've decided are also important. Sure we're also working Alexei, but we can commute to Kansas as well as Maryland. Why not?

 

41 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

To make Pastor Tim look like a sexual predator. 

 

That wouldn't help Philip and Elizabeth. It would just make his wife, especially, go to the FBI. They wouldn't not check out those flimsy social security numbers just because her husband looked like he was having sex with a busty 16-year-old or even a tall 14-year-old.

28 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Yes and a good defense attorney, who shows that that the accusation is credibly tied to two people, living the rest of their lives in solitary confinement as Soviet illegals, will get him out.

 

Yeah, and it's not like Alice hasn't already made this clear. She's not going to stand for that. Why should she? 

[SWLinPHX]

A few things are irking me:

In the back of my head I'm still disturbed by the two evil, unexpected and off-the-cuff murders of Hans and the lab director. Partly because I liked their characters/personalities and partly because I can't sympathize with or think of Philip and Elizabeth in a good light.  It seems to go against how we are supposed to think of them, as basically decent people who are misguided and in a tough spot, and who believe they're doing all this for the greater good.

I also want Oleg to understand that Stan is on his side -- and I definitely don't want Claudia preventing Mischa from finding Philip!

Edited March 29, 2017 by SWLinPHX

[attica]

26 minutes ago, SWLinPHX said:

Wait, what are you guys referring to with regard to this season.  What man would he have to seduce?

No, it's just a hypothetical. A wish list for some hot guy-on-guy action. Which would require some new architecture from the writing/casting departments. Which they should do, stat.

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, SWLinPHX said:

A few things are irking me:

In the back of my head I'm still disturbed by the two evil, unexpected and off-the-cuff murders of Hans and the lab director. Partly because I liked their characters/personalities and partly because I can't sympathize with or think of Philip and Elizabeth in a good light.  It seems to go against how we are supposed to think of them, as basically decent people who are misguided and in a tough spot, and who believe they're doing all this for the greater good.

I also want Oleg to understand that Stan is on his side -- and I definitely don't want Claudia preventing Mischa from finding Philip!

How did you react, a few season's back, when Elizabeth hit the release on an auto jack, and  dropped a car on some poor slob's head, so the defense industry factory in which he was working would have a job opening , and the alcoholic she as running could get a position there?

[gwhh]

1 hour ago, Ina123 said:

E is so on target when she tells Paige to stop spying. Paige does not yet have the "confidence" that E mentioned. She can't talk her way out of her nervousness. Look how she acts around Matthew. They spent a whole meal at a burger joint with Mathew asking "what's wrong with you" in every way possible. She can't hide it.

It reminds me of a story about Gary Gilmore (Google or Bing). He started his criminal life by walking into convenience stores and walking out with a case of beer. He did it for years over and over. When asked how he got by with it he said, "You just walk in, go to the beer, take it from the cooler and walk out. No eye contact. Clerks don't believe their eyes and when they realize what happened, you're gone." He was brazen. That's what Paige isn't. She can't look "not suspicious". E and P can.

That odd. I don't see how a death room murder and paige have in common.  I seen nothing that shows me that Paige can turn into a cold blooded murder.   I do hope Paige does not turn out to a cold blooded murder.  I mean mom and dad kill left and right. But it has a purpose.  It not random and it's not for fun.  It's not who you kill. It's why you kill them.  

[Erin9]

4 minutes ago, SWLinPHX said:

A few things are irking me:

In the back of my head I'm still disturbed by the two evil, unexpected and off-the-cuff murders of Hans and the lab director. Partly because I liked their characters/personalities and partly because I can't sympathize with or think of Philip and Elizabeth in a good light.  It seems to go against how we are supposed to think of them, as basically decent people who are misguided and in a tough spot, and who believe they're doing all this for the greater good.

I also want Oleg to understand that Stan is on his side -- and I definitely don't want Claudia preventing Mischa from finding Philip!

Well, I think Hans death was actually a kindness from Elizabeth. He would have suffered a slow, terrible death. The lab director was unfortunate, but expected given the circumstances. I don't think either were evil. They were in a tough spot. They sure didn't need this guy potentially talking about their little visit. At all. Not given the subject matter. 

I really like Oleg. It's surprising given that he annoyed me a lot his first few episodes. He seems like such a decent, honorable guy. I want him and his family to survive. I know he's supposed to be a mirror of Stan, but Oleg is easily the better man overall to me so far. I do want Oleg to know that Stan didn't stab him in the back though. 

Mischa made it. Now the fun begins. This should be good. If Claudia or Gabriel screw Philip over regarding one of his kids, and he somehow found out, he'd make what Elizabeth did to claudia's face look mild. They'd be wise to exercise caution. 

Looking forward to seeing what's up with Henry . I think Philip and Elizabeth will be pleasantly surprised. 

I love that both Elizabeth and Philip are over the seduction game. Especially Philip, given his history, should be reticent. Martha and the time away from home took a toll. I wonder if part of Philip's lack of success is also showing that some people aren't that easy to seduce after all. 

I'm curious about how this girlfriend of Stan's matters. I don't think she's going to innocently pick up on bizarre behavior from P/E and alert Stan. Stan hasn't noted anything substantial because there hasn't really been anything to see. He's pretty sharp job wise. It's his personal life that he struggles with. So....what's going to be her story?

Things are slowly heating up. 

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, Erin9 said:

I wonder if part of Philip's lack of success is also showing that some people aren't that easy to seduce after all. 

Philip has enough experience to know if he'll succeed, and I kind of hope he tanks this mission knowing he'll never get any information. Though perhaps the Centre isn't a fan of knowing when to fold 'em.

[Sarah 103]

1 hour ago, SWLinPHX said:

Wait, what are you guys referring to with regard to this season.  What man would he have to seduce?

51 minutes ago, attica said:

No, it's just a hypothetical. A wish list for some hot guy-on-guy action. Which would require some new architecture from the writing/casting departments. Which they should do, stat.

Maybe not this season, but in one of the remaining episodes of the series it's something I would like to see. Why is the person a target. is the goal blackmail or information, what is Philip's approach (does he have a different playback if it's targeting a man instead of a woman), what role, if any, will AIDS play in the story? 

1 hour ago, RedFiat said:

I like the idea of Henry and computers. There was a throw away line, "what does Henry do on those computers" or something like that and the answer was I don't know.  Bet the Centre does.   

That is very true. I'm curious to see where this goes. Also, wasn't Philip shown reading a computer magazine a few seasons ago? 

26 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

I really like Oleg. It's surprising given that he annoyed me a lot his first few episodes. He seems like such a decent, honorable guy. I want him and his family to survive. I know he's supposed to be a mirror of Stan, but Oleg is easily the better man overall to me so far. I do want Oleg to know that Stan didn't stab him in the back though. 

I agree with almost all of this. Oleg intrigued me the first time I saw him, and as we got to know him I liked him more and more. If I had to pick between Oleg or Stan surviving, I'd pick Oleg. I hope Stan can find a way to let Oleg know that he tried to stop this and wants to help Oleg. 

[stagmania]

44 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

I love that both Elizabeth and Philip are over the seduction game. Especially Philip, given his history, should be reticent. Martha and the time away from home took a toll. I wonder if part of Philip's lack of success is also showing that some people aren't that easy to seduce after all. 

I think this would actually be pretty interesting. They assume sex is the easiest way to develop an asset, but that's not going to work on everyone.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

IMO, Pastor Tim and Alice are just very messy liabilities with few options at P & E's disposal to remedy.  They can't just have a murder suicide, car accident, home invasion by strangers, drowning by flood while on mission, etc. ,because Paige would go ape ship crazy.  So, I suppose they just get dangled. 

There is an option.  Find which lawyer has the tape, find out if there is another tape.  Then kill them.  This (in real life) would have already happened.  There is no fucking way the KGB is risking this extremely valuable operation and they don't need Philip OR Elizabeth's permission.

This whole story stretches the credibility of this show to the max, for me, more in the Pastor thread.

1 hour ago, RedFiat said:

I like the idea of Henry and computers. There was a throw away line, "what does Henry do on those computers" or something like that and the answer was I don't know.  Bet the Centre does.   

I've thought that computer being introduced early on was a smoking gun WAY back then.  I still do.  Maybe one of Henry's on-line friends is KGB, testing the waters there, or maybe he's just a math-computer genius.

1 hour ago, SWLinPHX said:

A few things are irking me:

In the back of my head I'm still disturbed by the two evil, unexpected and off-the-cuff murders of Hans and the lab director. Partly because I liked their characters/personalities and partly because I can't sympathize with or think of Philip and Elizabeth in a good light.  It seems to go against how we are supposed to think of them, as basically decent people who are misguided and in a tough spot, and who believe they're doing all this for the greater good.

I also want Oleg to understand that Stan is on his side -- and I definitely don't want Claudia preventing Mischa from finding Philip!

Hans was already dead, that killing was not only a mercy killing, he was infectious, so letting him leave that place would not only blow the mission, it would potential endanger others.

I have a feeling this whole "poison grain" will be nothing but an increasingly desperate and delusional USSR leadership paranoia, it will have all been for nothing, and the guilt and anger will be massive from Phil and Liz.

1 hour ago, Erin9 said:

<snip>

I really like Oleg. It's surprising given that he annoyed me a lot his first few episodes. He seems like such a decent, honorable guy. I want him and his family to survive. I know he's supposed to be a mirror of Stan, but Oleg is easily the better man overall to me so far. I do want Oleg to know that Stan didn't stab him in the back though. 

Mischa made it. Now the fun begins. This should be good. If Claudia or Gabriel screw Philip over regarding one of his kids, and he somehow found out, he'd make what Elizabeth did to claudia's face look mild. They'd be wise to exercise caution. 

Looking forward to seeing what's up with Henry . I think Philip and Elizabeth will be pleasantly surprised. 

I love that both Elizabeth and Philip are over the seduction game. Especially Philip, given his history, should be reticent. Martha and the time away from home took a toll. I wonder if part of Philip's lack of success is also showing that some people aren't that easy to seduce after all. 

I'm curious about how this girlfriend of Stan's matters. I don't think she's going to innocently pick up on bizarre behavior from P/E and alert Stan. Stan hasn't noted anything substantial because there hasn't really been anything to see. He's pretty sharp job wise. It's his personal life that he struggles with. So....what's going to be her story?

Things are slowly heating up. 

Love Oleg, but his story needs some structure, it's much too confusing.  The Stan / Oleg situation needs a bit of definition as well, since, for example, I read Stan's actions as Stan trying to get ahead of this thing, stop it, to save his own ass.  Oleg spilling to the CIA would end Stan's career.  Others apparently read it as friendship/altruism, and I think that's part of it, just not the main part.

Philip wasn't even trying.  I would have run from that guy too, he came on way too strong, and he didn't even look attractive. 

I'm pretty convinced now, mostly from the preview, but also from scenes last night that the blond is definitely a spy.  I'm still not sure which agency owns her though.

Slowly is right, get on with it show.

 

26 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I think this would actually be pretty interesting. They assume sex is the easiest way to develop an asset, but that's not going to work on everyone.

Center does seem focused on that, and I understand it's a good way, but it isn't the ONLY way.  I remember Gabe pushing him to have sex with Kimmie too, but his way was better.

---

They aren't going to honey trap or blackmail the pastors.  It would be ridiculously stupid to do that, and I agree, if that is a show plan, it's a jump the shark plan.  I don't think Mrs. Pastor would hesitate, and no chance the FBI would dismiss her claims that they were Russian spies without investigating.  NO CHANCE.  One warrant for a search and they are busted.  Get Paige in a room under questioning?  Blown. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

Quote

I've thought that computer being introduced early on was a smoking gun WAY back then.  I still do.  Maybe one of Henry's on-line friends is KGB, testing the waters there, or maybe he's just a math-computer genius.

Hee. Henry wouldn't have online friends.

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Hee. Henry wouldn't have online friends.

Why not?  There were programs in 83-84 that allowed that.

[scrb]

Do they still sell carob covered nuts?

Or people just go for gourmet chocolate, especially dark chocolate now?

You will see movies set in exotic locales called Chocolat (French).  You don't see movies called Carob.

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Why not?  There were programs in 83-84 that allowed that.

They've never given any hint there's a modem or anything.  He's usually playing video games. That doesn't sound like something they'd slip in like it was just assumed in 1984 when he's doing this out in the open and his parents don't know it's a tool for communication.  In this ep I thought the question was who he was talking to on the phone, not what was he doing on the computer. All his communication seems to be going on there. That just seems like a major cheat. And not something the KGB would be doing to him.

[dubbel zout]

I feel about carob the way Monica Gellar feels about low-fat mayonnaise:

 

[Sarah 103]

7 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

They've never given any hint there's a modem or anything.  He's usually playing video games. That doesn't sound like something they'd slip in like it was just assumed in 1984 when he's doing this out in the open and his parents don't know it's a tool for communication.  

I would agree. It was possible for someone to use a computer with internet access to talk to other people in 1984. WarGames comes to mind as proof the internet in its early stages existed. However, there has never been a mention of a modem, which would be required, or the fact that Henry would be tieing up the phone line for hours, which Paige, Philip or Elizabeth would have commented on by now. Instead they are talking about his use of the phone to talk to girls we assume are in his class at school.    

[AllyB]

I was stupidly surprised by how quickly Mischa arrived in the US but presumably the Slovenian people smugglers were quite honourable and left Mischa with most of his cash and his fake documents. He is not only in the US a day or two after he arrived in Austria but has passed emigration at JFK. So I'm guessing he had enough money to fly from Vienna and had a passport and visa that allowed him entry to the US. 

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

They've never given any hint there's a modem or anything.  He's usually playing video games. That doesn't sound like something they'd slip in like it was just assumed in 1984 when he's doing this out in the open and his parents don't know it's a tool for communication.

Perhaps he's playing games on Mutiny! Sure it started out as a games company but it was really the chat rooms that were the heart of the business.

(I have to get my 80s fix from somewhere during the off-season.)

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

They've never given any hint there's a modem or anything.  He's usually playing video games. That doesn't sound like something they'd slip in like it was just assumed in 1984 when he's doing this out in the open and his parents don't know it's a tool for communication.  In this ep I thought the question was who he was talking to on the phone, not what was he doing on the computer. All his communication seems to be going on there. That just seems like a major cheat. And not something the KGB would be doing to him.

It fits.

Yes, we saw him playing games on the computer, now the math teacher wants to talk to the parents, and we already know the math teacher is an idiot who also teaches computers, from Henry's talk with Stan.  It's not a huge leap to think that Henry has moved far past the teacher with computers by now, and Mathew was hooking him up with connecting it to the TV, and showing him more tricks.  We don't really know if there is a modem, and besides, even if there isn't one at the house, it doesn't mean there isn't one at school, or a friend's.  Henry could have installed one in the house as well, the parents show-story is that they are pretty clueless about computers.  EXCEPT they foolishly had Elizabeth on one computer looking quite adept in one scene, which I thought was very strange. 

Early computer nerds were already on line, I think Henry is as well, not "on line" as we know it today of course, but still, more connected than Ham radio operators, for example.  Gabe may have included a modem in the original gift for all we know.  Philip has barely touched that computer, played one or two games with Henry's help.  I don't think Elizabeth goes near it.

1 minute ago, AllyB said:

I was stupidly surprised by how quickly Mischa arrived in the US but presumably the Slovenian people smugglers were quite honourable and left Mischa with most of his cash and his fake documents. He is not only in the US a day or two after he arrived in Austria but has passed emigration at JFK. So I'm guessing he had enough money to fly from Vienna and had a passport and visa that allowed him entry to the US. 

Perhaps he's playing games on Mutiny! Sure it started out as a games company but it was really the chat rooms that were the heart of the business.

(I have to get my 80s fix from somewhere during the off-season.)

Once he got out of USSR territory it would be quick.  We saw the hard parts.  After he's in a free country, away from Soviet influence?  Hop a plane, you are there.

[Paloma]

53 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I'm pretty convinced now, mostly from the preview, but also from scenes last night that the blond is definitely a spy.  I'm still not sure which agency owns her though.

What convinced me that Stan's girlfriend is some kind of spy was how she went on about Pittsburgh after hearing that's where Phillip was from. It felt like she was trying to trip him up in a "do you know this person or place" way. But maybe I'm just paranoid because she is Laurie Holden.

[AllyB]

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Once he got out of USSR territory it would be quick.  We saw the hard parts.  After he's in a free country, away from Soviet influence?  Hop a plane, you are there.

It's only quick if you have the money for flights and are a person with a nationality that allows you into the country you want to enter, either through citizenship, reciprocal national travel agreements or with a visa. Just because you or I can travel about with relative ease doesn't mean someone who has illegally arrived in Europe will get anywhere fast. Without a forged passport, Mischa wouldn't have made it onto a plane in Austria, never mind into New York, not within a day or two.

[Shriekingeel]

18 hours ago, Cosmosgravitation said:

I'm guessing Henry's math teacher will tell them he is mathematically gifted.  It'd fit with Henry's interest in computers and astronomy, and since his parents speculated he was failing the class we can be sure it won't be that, especially since Henry said he thought he was doing well.

If no one else has extrapolated from this, the CIA is always interested in students with outstanding mathematical ability for high-end cryptography work. In that case Henry would quickly become the Holy Grail for Soviet intelligence: a spy in the CIA from day one, no dangerous money trail required as with Aldrich Ames. Don't know if they're going there. 

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, AllyB said:

It's only quick if you have the money for flights and are a person with a nationality that allows you into the country you want to enter, either through citizenship, reciprocal national travel agreements or with a visa. Just because you or I can travel about with relative ease doesn't mean someone who has illegally arrived in Europe will get anywhere fast. Without a forged passport, Mischa wouldn't have made it onto a plane in Austria, never mind into New York, not within a day or two.

He still had money, and we saw several passports his mom left him, presumably great ones, since she was KGB and a working spy with connections for a long time.  Maybe one of those passports was a USA passport?  Travel was quite a bit easier back then anyway.  Or he could have applied for a VISA with an Austrian passport.  

Frankly, I'm glad we didn't have to watch all of that part.  The hardest part?  We saw.

5 minutes ago, Shriekingeel said:

If no one else has extrapolated from this, the CIA is always interested in students with outstanding mathematical ability for high-end cryptography work. In that case Henry would quickly become the Holy Grail for Soviet intelligence: a spy in the CIA from day one, no dangerous money trail required as with Aldrich Ames. Don't know if they're going there. 

Yeah, and computer pros were, and still are, very valuable as well. 

3 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

So what was she saying in essence?  "Don't end up like me in prison; cooperate with the U.S. government without worrying about loyalty to the Soviet Union which is so harsh" -- OR -- "I stuck it out for my country and so should you.  Loyalty at all costs!"

The first.