Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[ohjoy]

He's really only even an iota tolerable if you pretend he came on the show in 3.19

I think that's a very winning mindset -- I pretty much refused to acknowledge his presence before then, and flatly ignored Felicity's supposed relationship with him in that particular ep (easy to do when you know it's definitely going to be ended in a matter of days), and I actually quite enjoyed him in 3.19. If they had brought him in like that, at that point, instead of all the crap that they did with him leading up to that point, I would have really loved Ray. That's pretty much the only reason I can look forward to him on LoT: I'm essentially expecting a character reboot. (And the idea of goofball Ray of the late S3 being any sort of taken with Sara Lance is intriguing to me. *hangs head in shame* )

[wonderwall]

I really, really love this. And it 'galvanizes' my love for this stupid couple :')

 

 

The story of how Felicity Smoak changed Oliver Queen’s life. X

Edited October 28, 2015 by wonderwall

[Chaser]

So Stupid.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Oh, that is beautiful. And just goes on to show how much of an impact Felicity has made on Oliver (HUGE). I really am very excited about what comes next for them. I may be even more in love with them now. 

[wonderwall]

To be honest, that gifset just makes me want to rant about how it's just unfathomable to me how some people don't understand what I see in them. How it's unfathomable how people say that Felicity isn't an integral part of this show or this season or whatever because she is. And it's not the obvious way that she helps the team, but in the way she helps Oliver be a better person, helps him not give up, helps him move forward, and just be there for him. 

 

Felicity is a huge reason why Oliver is the Green Arrow today. Her love is a huge reason why Oliver isn't affected by PTSD as much anymore. She's important to his journey in a way that other's, not even Digg or Thea are (which, I know this opinion is going to ruffle some feathers). Because while Oliver fiercely loves Thea and would do anything for her and try to save her and while Diggle is there to mentor Oliver and be a brother to him and help him make the right decisions, it's Felicity who inspires him to be the man she knows he wants to be, and it's Felicity who helps give him that extra push to help him achieve his goals. 

 

In the end, Oliver needs Felicity. And I honestly don't know a world where he would ever be okay with her death or not be torn about it (unlike what we saw in that gravesite). Because the man Oliver is today is a huge result of his relationship with Felicity and I can't imagine this TV Oliver without her. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by wonderwall

[Angel12d]

I'm cry.

[EmeraldArcher]

To be honest, that gifset just makes me want to rant about how it's just unfathomable to me how some people don't understand what I see in them. How it's unfathomable how people say that Felicity isn't an integral part of this show or this season or whatever because she is. And it's not the obvious way that she helps the team, but in the way she helps Oliver be a better person, helps him not give up, helps him move forward, and just be there for him. 

 

Felicity is a huge reason why Oliver is the Green Arrow today. Her love is a huge reason why Oliver isn't affected by PTSD as much anymore. She's important to his journey in a way that other's, not even Digg or Thea are (which, I know this opinion is going to ruffle some feathers). Because while Oliver fiercely loves Thea and would do anything for her and try to save her and while Diggle is there to mentor Oliver and be a brother to him and help him make the right decisions, it's Felicity who inspires him to be the man she knows he wants to be, and it's Felicity who helps give him that extra push to help him achieve his goals. 

 

In the end, Oliver needs Felicity. And I honestly don't know a world where he would ever be okay with her death or not be torn about it (unlike what we saw in that gravesite). Because the man Oliver is today is a huge result of his relationship with Felicity and I can't imagine this TV Oliver without her.

I really, really love this post! I will unabashedly call myself an Olicity fan girl in the spirit of fun and fandom participation, but I've always been drawn to the emotional aspect of their relationship much more than the they're-so-adorable-together. They ARE adorable (especially this season), but they're more than the superficially cute couple who are fun to watch. They're a couple who represent that once-in-a-lifetime love that has a profound, transformative effect that makes them both better. I can easily cheer for them because they cheer for each other. I can love them because they have emotional depth and experienced an interesting and romantic journey to be together.

It does frustrate me sometimes that S1 Felicity is so misunderstood and reduced to quirky tech support. She didn't go from an IT girl sitting at a desk and babbling to the woman trying to protect her partners from the bomb around her own neck just because Oliver Queen recruited her. She was always brave and heroic--she didn't need to become more to be worthy of Oliver. However, she was the only one who told Oliver that he could be more than the spoiled kid or the playboy or the killer or the martyr--to be worthy of the man he wanted to be. As for Oliver--he gives Felicity the one thing she really hasn't had before: a true partner.

[Ann Mack]

I'm so ready for some Olicity goodness!

 

[BkWurm1]

In the end, Oliver needs Felicity. And I honestly don't know a world where he would ever be okay with her death or not be torn about it (unlike what we saw in that gravesite). Because the man Oliver is today is a huge result of his relationship with Felicity and I can't imagine this TV Oliver without her.

 

And I can speak for a certain segment that believes that Oliver needing Felicity is the very reason why supposedly she is bad for him.  That he can't be a real hero unless he is doing it all on his own.  That he shouldn't need someone suggesting a path or harnessing his light, that he should be better than that and be able to be his own light all by himself.

 

Basically, there is a school of thought that IMO seems to say that Oliver must prove that he stands as a hero all alone.  That's the reasoning I'm given for why Felicity must go. 

 

Sigh. 

[kismet]

As someone who adores the O&F coupling, I think there is a need for both of them to prove that they are not co-dependent in their herodom. It's an absolute fact that they make each other better & rely on one another - but I do understand that group a little that thinks OQ needs to prove he can be a hero on his own merit & will.

In s3 he essentially retired because his personal mission was done. In s4 he was dragged back into and seemed to stay for FS. Like FS said in s3, while OQ was dead everyone on TA had to figure out why they were fighting. They have all submitted their resume & application to the audience & OQ (that is why they are on the team in the first place). I don't feel like OQ has done that individually yet but I hope with the mayor arc he'll do it. I think we were supposed to believe that his televised speech was it, but honestly it felt a little contrived.

It would also help if other people outside of FS started calling him a hero. That would go along way to proving that he is accomplishing heroic acts that the general people appreciate.

Edited October 28, 2015 by kismet

[tv echo]

I don't understand that.  I thought that parts of the classic hero journey (according to Joseph Campbell) involved a mentor who helped the hero find his destiny and allies who helped the hero complete his journey.  The point it, the hero doesn't do it alone.

MENTORS

The hero’s guide or guiding principles.  Yoda, Merlin, a great coach or teacher.

*  *  *

ALLIES

Characters who help the hero through the change.  Sidekicks, buddies, girlfriends who advise the hero through the transitions of life.

http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero%27s_journey.htm

 

Maybe at the 'end' of his hero journey, Oliver is able to stand on his own but simply chooses not to.  From what I understand, a lot of classic superheros have girlfriends and friends/allies.

Edited October 28, 2015 by tv echo

[jay741982]

And I can speak for a certain segment that believes that Oliver needing Felicity is the very reason why supposedly she is bad for him.  That he can't be a real hero unless he is doing it all on his own.  That he shouldn't need someone suggesting a path or harnessing his light, that he should be better than that and be able to be his own light all by himself.

 

Basically, there is a school of thought that IMO seems to say that Oliver must prove that he stands as a hero all alone.  That's the reasoning I'm given for why Felicity must go. 

 

Sigh.

Yeah and I bet a bunch of those people just want him in that toxic relationship with laurel which makes no damn sense

[dtissagirl]

I don't understand that.  I thought that parts of the classic hero journey (according to Joseph Campbell) involved a mentor who helped the hero find his destiny and allies who helped the hero complete his journey.  The point it, the hero doesn't do it alone.

 

The thing with Campbell is, well, it's a male-centric approach to heroism. It's pretty sexist. And the woman the hero loves is mostly treated as his reward after the ordeals.

 

[Which is also tied to WHY both damseling, and the use of the women in refrigerator trope are so widespread in all fiction ever -- if the woman is the prize, it means she's also the hero's most cherished possession [because the woman is an object if she's a prize], hence putting her in danger [for later saving] or killing her as the ultimate ordeal the hero has to overcome.

 

A feminist approach to the hero's journey has GOT TO subvert that. The "hero must stand alone" trope is oftentimes used in conjunction with damseling or fridging -- the hero decides to be a #foreveralone hero because he doesn't want his girlfriend in danger, or the girlfriend is injured/killed as a motivator to #foreveralone.

 

Arrow has already subverted those things with Oliver/Felicity, because she's not only the inspiration to his journey -- she's also a mentor, and a partner in the journey itself. The show has also kinda already proved that Oliver is better when he has teammates, so a lone hero stand at this point would be going backwards. Oliver doesn't have to do any of this alone, and more importantly -- he doesn't want to.

 

[Which actually means that killing Felicity is also going backwards in his journey, and even worse -- it's going backwards to Campbell's original sexist take on the woman in the hero's life. She would be once again reduced to an object to be possessed, and lost.]

Edited October 28, 2015 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

That is a lovely gifset, but I will say I am forever infuriated that he had to be told to fight to live.  What a dumbass.

[HighwayFlower]

Why should anyone have to be alone to prove anything? That is such dumb logic. I guess I better divorce my husband to prove I can be a great data processor alone first!

[NumberCruncher]

The whole argument that Oliver is better doing things alone wouldn't even ring true in real life--everybody needs a support system whether they want to admit it or not. I'm single and love my alone time like nobody's business but I also realize that the only times in my life I was unhappy were when I withdrew from human interaction. Science even tells us that people are generally happier and live longer when they develop strong relationships.

Even the show itself has driven that point home again and again using various characters to tell Oliver that he's not alone and that he needs to rely upon others. Oliver operating by himself makes for a pretty one dimensional hero, IMO (not to mention a boring story at that).

[Angel12d]

Wait, so the argument is that Felicity needs to die (or Olicity needs to end) so Oliver can prove he's a real hero? Am I reading that right? 

 

WHAT A BUNCH OF BULL. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Every hero has that one person they depend on and love, who inspires them. It's a classic trope. And one of my favorite things about Olicity is that Felicity has supported him no matter what and can always find a way through to him. Even heroes need help and encouragement sometimes.

 

I actually think this season is when Oliver will become more of a team player and make the big decisions without needing an inspiring speech as much as he has done in the past but that doesn't mean he doesn't need Felicity standing by his side when he does. 

[EmeraldArcher]

And one of my favorite things about Olicity is that Felicity has supported him no matter what and can always find a way through to him.

I think one of my favorite things about Felicity is that she hasn't supported Oliver no matter what. I wouldn't have such respect for her if she was blind to Oliver's faults or didn't call him out when needed. Her counsel and support is much more valuable because she supports him in trying to be better, which is very different than supporting him no matter what.

[BkWurm1]

Wait, so the argument is that Felicity needs to die (or Olicity needs to end) so Oliver can prove he's a real hero? Am I reading that right?

 

That's the argument for why he shouldn't be with her.  Dead, leave, suddenly realize she's in love with someone else, as long as she stops being important the same desire is achieved. 

[lemotomato]

That's the argument for why he shouldn't be with her. Dead, leave, suddenly realize she's in love with someone else, as long as she stops being important the same desire is achieved.

So the argument is that Oliver should be alone forever when he becomes a hero? Or does he conveniently realize, once Felicity is gone, that who he should really be with is another heroine that can fight like he does?

[Angel12d]

I think one of my favorite things about Felicity is that she hasn't supported Oliver no matter what. I wouldn't have such respect for her if she was blind to Oliver's faults or didn't call him out when needed. Her counsel and support is much more valuable because she supports him in trying to be better, which is very different than supporting him no matter what.

 

Yeah, you're totally right. She hasn't supported him blindly. I guess I just meant that she's always believed in him, especially when other people haven't. 

[EmeraldArcher]

@Angel12d, I think I understood the spirit in which you made your comment. I, too, love their support of each other and just wanted to add that wee bit of clarification! :-)

[BkWurm1]

So the argument is that Oliver should be alone forever when he becomes a hero? Or does he conveniently realize, once Felicity is gone, that who he should really be with is another heroine that can fight like he does?

Oh of course once he's proved he doesn't need anyone then he looks around and realizes who's right for him.  Insert eye roll.

 

One of the scenarios suggested to me was to have Felicity kidnapped and while they are apart she meets some nice HIVE guy and of course Oliver is crying on Laurel's shoulder (yeah, the need to be independent doesn't always go very deep) and lots of time goes by (maybe Oliver thinks she's dead, I forget) and then when suddenly she shows up again, they try to be a couple again but they've both moved on and so she looks up HIVE boy and Oliver reveals his new feelings for Laurel. 

 

I honestly don't know why I put myself through this pain.  Oh and yeah, there is totes no difference between Oliver saving Thea and Laurel her sister.  I've seen the GIF sets showing the similarities.  You know, him upset about his sister, her upset about her sister, lowering them in the pit, you know, totally the same thing.  Oh and MG is absolutely wrong and Thea was super dead. 

[wonderwall]

So in connection to the last gifset I posted... X

 

 

Oliver has come so far, and Felicity is so emotional and proud because she knows just how far Oliver's come because she helped him get to this moment. She knows the heartache, the pain, the suffering Oliver's been through and now she's watching him stand up on his own two feet and be the man she knows he can be. The man who has finally found a path for himself, and is finally stable and happy enough to think about his future and how he can help other people as Oliver and not the Arrow. 

 

I love it. I love them. 

[Balaclava]

So in connection to the last gifset I posted... X

 

 

Oliver has come so far, and Felicity is so emotional and proud because she knows just how far Oliver's come because she helped him get to this moment. She knows the heartache, the pain, the suffering Oliver's been through and now she's watching him stand up on his own two feet and be the man she knows he can be. The man who has finally found a path for himself, and is finally stable and happy enough to think about his future and how he can help other people as Oliver and not the Arrow. 

 

I love it. I love them. 

 

All of the above ITA 100% 

[Angel12d]

So in connection to the last gifset I posted... X

 

 

Oliver has come so far, and Felicity is so emotional and proud because she knows just how far Oliver's come because she helped him get to this moment. She knows the heartache, the pain, the suffering Oliver's been through and now she's watching him stand up on his own two feet and be the man she knows he can be. The man who has finally found a path for himself, and is finally stable and happy enough to think about his future and how he can help other people as Oliver and not the Arrow. 

 

I love it. I love them. 

 

Also, these little moments between them where you feel their connection feels so EARNED. I believe in their love and support for each other just on every level. I LOVE THEM TOO.

[EmilyBettFan]

This is what I watch for. This and OTA.

[wingster55]

Man what a wonderful scene where Oliver where Oliver told Thea he was proposing and wanted to use Moira's ring. You know where he asked if she was ok with him using it and they reminisced over their mom. So great.

Oh wait...that wasn't on screen? It was just in my head?

[looptab]

Man what a wonderful scene where Oliver where Oliver told Thea he was proposing and wanted to use Moira's ring. You know where he asked if she was ok with him using it and they reminisced over their mom. So great.

Oh wait...that wasn't on screen? It was just in my head?

I'm pretty sure had a scene like that been showed, there would be some arguing on how that wasn't even about the siblings and their lost mom, but Olicity.

And no one's to say we won't get that at some point during the season.

[bijoux]

I'm actually now torn between Oliver telling Thea about his plans and Thea just jumping to that conclusion because of the happiness and the big announcement, and duh, what else could it be?

[apinknightmare]

Man what a wonderful scene where Oliver where Oliver told Thea he was proposing and wanted to use Moira's ring. You know where he asked if she was ok with him using it and they reminisced over their mom. So great.

Oh wait...that wasn't on screen? It was just in my head?

Why would we have seen that? It would've happened over the summer.

[dtissagirl]

I'm actually now torn between Oliver telling Thea about his plans and Thea just jumping to that conclusion because of the happiness and the big announcement, and duh, what else could it be?

 

I didn't even think of the possibility of Oliver having told Thea that he wants to propose. I just thought Thea was guessing, because she has, you know, eyes. And then adding the word "announcement", and Dig reporting that Oliver had been grinning, what ELSE could it be, really?

[apinknightmare]

I didn't even think of the possibility of Oliver having told Thea that he wants to propose. I just thought Thea was guessing, because she has, you know, eyes. And then adding the word "announcement", and Dig reporting that Oliver had been grinning, what ELSE could it be, really?

I thought Thea saying "why aren't you wearing it" indicated that Oliver had talked to her about proposing and the "it" she was referring to was Moira's ring.

[Genki]

Also the eye exchanged Oliver and Thea had afterwards implied to me that she knows his plans.

[tarotx]

I think it was both Thea knowing about the ring and jumping to believe Oliver finally asked Felicity.

Edited October 29, 2015 by tarotx

[tv echo]

One of the scenarios suggested to me was to have Felicity kidnapped and while they are apart she meets some nice HIVE guy and of course Oliver is crying on Laurel's shoulder (yeah, the need to be independent doesn't always go very deep) and lots of time goes by (maybe Oliver thinks she's dead, I forget) and then when suddenly she shows up again, they try to be a couple again but they've both moved on and so she looks up HIVE boy and Oliver reveals his new feelings for Laurel. I 

 

I believe I was the one who came up with that scenario when I was playing devil's advocate.  I was in a depressed, distrustful state where I was imagining how the EPs could force a ridiculous plot contrivance.  To clarify, I do not want that to happen at all.

[Password]

When are they going to be apart?

Was that a spoiler or just apart as in at the office - at the lair apart?

[Angel12d]

When are they going to be apart?

Was that a spoiler or just apart as in at the office - at the lair apart?

 

It's just speculation. There's been no spoilers about them being apart.

[Chaser]

I was more amused by Diggle's eyebrow wave. Big announcement, permenant grin, eyebrow maneuver. He was like "Whatcha think?" Thea was on it. Lol

Not feeling Laurel's line later to Felicity. I understand it was to highlight Felicity's cluelessness about the ring, but it was odd. All this brand new lair stuff was going on and Laurel was more interested in what Thea thought Felicity was wearing. At first I thought they may have been going for hint hint Felicity and KC just missed the mark but it was weird.

[dtissagirl]

I thought Thea saying "why aren't you wearing it" indicated that Oliver had talked to her about proposing and the "it" she was referring to was Moira's ring.

 

Yeah, now that it's discussed here I can see that too, but during the episode I just assumed Thea was being super perceptive.

[Carrie Ann]

I would like to see more of the small moments too, with the characters just talking like normal people who have history together, or still have things to reveal to each other. Plus, hugs. I could use more hugs. But I have no complaints about that this season, funny enough, because I feel like we've had those moments in every episode so far, and maybe this one more than any. OQ finally said some true things to QL (and not just the mean ones), and I thought those resonated emotionally even though I have no use for Quentin anymore.

 

But I actually thought Thea and Oliver had the best scenes together in 404. First the talk when he was disillusioned about Lance, and then the whole staffing up his office, writing his speech, telling him she's been paying attention for three years to the way he cares about the city. I thought Thea was perfect this week, and those scenes were really sweet. I hate how much we miss over the hiatuses too (that's where all the best parts of O/F's relationship have happened so far--that summer of flirting we missed and then the beginning of their relationship), but that's the show's choice, and how it's always going to be.

[HighHopes]

I was one of those who wondered about Oliver using Moira's ring without talking to Thea. It's not that I was completely against it, I just wish that we had gotten the scene of Oliver asking Thea. The last episode made it aware that Thea knows Oliver plans to propose, but I still really would have liked that scene between Thea and Oliver. Because up until 3xWhatever, Thea and Felicity had never really talked to each other, so I would have loved a scene of Thea realizing how dumb Oliver is for Felicity, and how is he already ready to propose. 

 

EBR gave an interview recently about how you can expect your audience to buy some things, but they can't just buy everything. And that's one of the issues with this show I think, they want us to buy some relationships and scenes, but they don't give us any of the details to help us buy them. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by HighHopes

[Stevie-Dee]

And I can speak for a certain segment that believes that Oliver needing Felicity is the very reason why supposedly she is bad for him.  That he can't be a real hero unless he is doing it all on his own.  That he shouldn't need someone suggesting a path or harnessing his light, that he should be better than that and be able to be his own light all by himself.

 

Basically, there is a school of thought that IMO seems to say that Oliver must prove that he stands as a hero all alone.  That's the reasoning I'm given for why Felicity must go. 

 

Sigh. 

Hi, I'm new here and I know this is an unpopular opinion but please don't hate me.

 

As much as I hate to say it, I think there is a point in there somewhere, although my reasons are not born out of misogynistic drivel. I actually think in the long run it will add another interesting layer to Felicity's character as well as Oliver, Olicity and the show in general.

I don't think Oliver MUST prove it to be considered a hero (he's already a hero) or that Felicity will stay gone but I think it would be good for the audience to really see, on a bigger picture scale, what exactly Felicity's influence on him has been throughout the entire series when she's not around anymore. Like to the point where there can be no more debate about it, even from their/her detractors. I know they've shown things in the show like the beautiful gifset posted above but 3x04 (or whatever ep F went to The Flash) was the first and only episode we saw Oliver use Felicity's influence wisely without her being there or prompting him to. I enjoyed seeing that tbh and I wouldn't mind seeing it again on a bigger scale if it's done right. It highlighted their unspoken connection in my eyes, even more so because they were going through a rough patch at the time. IIRC it was the only noteworthy part of that episode.

 

I think the only way a certain segment of the fandom will realise what we have known for ages is if they're forced to because it goes along with their own logic. People love to say Felicity has no purpose on the show or the team so to see Oliver live by her influence and advice even after her "death" (which I doubt will stay permanent if it's F, no matter how much the EP's are begging us to believe that so the story carries the right resonance they want) will force them to accept the importance Felicity has on the team, in Oliver's life and in his transition into Green Arrow.

 

Just FYI: I don't think they need to persuade anyone but I think they will try anyway and this isn't necessarily the way I would want it to happen, but I think it's likely to.

Also I really don't know if I'm supposed to put a spoiler warning on this so please, someone tell me if I should :)

Edited October 29, 2015 by Stevie-Dee

[Chicago Redshirt]

I have a question with regard to Dig. 

 

Every other member of our vigilante group has a code name for when they are out in the field. Now that Diggle has a helmet and is fighting alongside everyone else, has he gotten one and I just missed it, or are they still just openly calling him "Dig"/"John"?

 

Also am I wrong for kinda wanting Dig to be the first Mr. Terrific? His helmet even has an opening that looks like a "T."

[bijoux]

Nope, you haven't missed anything. Felicity mentioned the need for it in passing two episodes ago but nothing came of it. Hey, like even Lance got a code name. That made me laugh so hard.

[dtissagirl]

Just FYI: I don't think they need to persuade anyone but I think they will try anyway and this isn't necessarily the way I would want it to happen, but I think it's likely to.

 

Welcome. This is good food for thought.

 

The reason I disagree is that I don't really see anyone involved in creating Arrow is worried about what fandom's general feelings are about Felicity. I was talking about this yesterday in the Felicity thread. What I get from TPTB is that 1. they love Felicity and 2. they operate under the directive that the majority of the audience loves Felicity. It doesn't even matter if it's true -- it's how they perceive it.

 

So imo, there ISN'T a need to write Felicity -- or O/F -- in a way that's devised to convince anyone that Felicity makes Oliver a better person/hero/character. They already know that, and treat her as such, and mostly likely look at whatever criticism is out there as "well, can't please everyone".

[Stevie-Dee]

I was one of those who wondered about Oliver using Moira's ring without talking to Thea. It's not that I was completely against it, I just wish that we had gotten the scene of Oliver asking Thea. The last episode made it aware that Thea knows Oliver plans to propose, but I still really would have liked that scene between Thea and Oliver. Because up until 3xWhatever, Thea and Felicity had never really talked to each other, so I would have loved a scene of Thea realizing how dumb Oliver is for Felicity, and how is he already ready to propose. 

 

EBR gave an interview recently about how you can expect your audience to buy some things, but they can't just buy everything. And that's one of the issues with this show I think, they want us to buy some relationships and scenes, but they don't give us any of the details to help us buy them. 

This is so true. 

 

This show has a bad habit of inconsistencies in friendships and relationships. The most recent example for me was Oliver and Quentin in 4x04. I loved their scenes, they're among my highlights of the episode but I feel like I missed 2, 3 or 10 episodes where their relationship got to this point. It just felt a little too over emotional. Like doesn't Quentin still believe that Roy is dead because of Oliver? If we're supposed to believe he was told during the last 5 months and nothing has been said about it between them then it proves my point. These writers want the audience to assume things have happened off screen too often without giving any hints whatsoever. Something just pops up and we're like "oh, so I guess x,y and/or z happened off screen. Frankly, it makes the storytelling look choppy and amateurish.

[Password]

I feel like season 3 showed the audience the influence Felicity has over Oliver's life whether she's in it or not. Oliver isn't a soul meant for separation from others. I think the show gave us ample examples of Oliver doing things on his own and failing miserably. Not just because of Felicity but because he shut others out.

Oliver seems like a guy who desperately needs the support and firm foundation of his loved ones. Otherwise the darkness (we were so happily reminded of) within him takes over. Him having yet another spell of being alone for the sake of proving he can function without his support to me seems redundant because he can't.

[AyChihuahua]

I feel like season 3 showed the audience the influence Felicity has over Oliver's life whether she's in it or not. Oliver isn't a soul meant for separation from others. I think the show gave us ample examples of Oliver doing things on his own and failing miserably. Not just because of Felicity but because he shut others out.

Oliver seems like a guy who desperately needs the support and firm foundation of his loved ones. Otherwise the darkness (we were so happily reminded of) within him takes over. Him having yet another spell of being alone for the sake of proving he can function without his support to me seems redundant because he can't.

I don't even see that as bad.  Maybe it's not sufficiently Batman-ish, but Buffy didn't do well without her support team (personally I always thought the reason she was an unusually long-lived and successful Slayer was, in part, because of her team...Slayers seemed mostly to go it alone from what we saw of others).  Angel was told specifically that if he didn't connect with people he'd just go bad again.  Agents of SHIELD are all about having a team and not going it alone.  We saw Barry in his S2 premiere going it sort of alone and he wasn't doing all that well without his team.  People need people...that's not a bug of humanity, it's a feature. 

[Stevie-Dee]

Welcome.

Thank you :)

 

 

What I get from TPTB is that 1. they love Felicity and 2. they operate under the directive that the majority of the audience loves Felicity. It doesn't even matter if it's true -- it's how they perceive it.

This is a really good point. It's certainly proven in the way they don't try to make Laurel more likeable in the eyes of her detractors! Tbh I think they know the Felicity hate started happening around the time the show made it clear that Olicity was going to be much more than a fling so I'm sure it's as transparent to them as it is to us. But I don't think getting people to like Felicity would be the motivation behind it, that was just me theorizing what would happen in the fandom if it did. I think the main motivation would be character development for Oliver and later Felicity if they do it right... Well, the only way they know how to do character development anyway.

 

But I could really do without the whole fandom drama that would surround it if it did happen so here's hoping I'm just overthinking it!

Edited October 29, 2015 by Stevie-Dee