Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[apinknightmare]

I don't have a single problem with Diggle, apart from him trying to guilt Felicity into doing/not doing something because Oliver was distracted in the field.

 

It is a problem that we don't get to see much of Felicity's life outside of the foundry, because we don't know if she has a friend to confide in or not. I can't imagine that someone like Felicity doesn't have any outside friends, so I'm not going to fault Diggle for her not having anyone to talk to, when for all we know, she did.

 

Even if the invite was spur-of-the-moment, I get why he didn't also invite Felicity. He knows she's trying to move on and is successfully attempting that with Ray. After seeing her walk out of the foundry upset because Oliver drew yet another line in the sand, why would he invite her too when that would only make things uncomfortable for her? He was more supportive of Oliver in this ep, and I don't blame him. He knows how easy it is to get yourself hurt in the field when your head's not in it, and he also knows what it's like to not be able to be with the woman you love (even if the reason is a stupid, self-made one). He also knows Felicity really well and knows that she's emotionally equipped to handle this. Oliver? He's not. I'm not saying Felicity doesn't need support and that Diggle can't or shouldn't support her, but naturally Oliver is his first concern because if Oliver slips up because he's heartbroken, he could die. Others could die. The stakes for Felicity aren't nearly as high. They're as important, but they aren't as high. Felicity has a fulfilling life outside of the foundry. Oliver? That's all he's got.

 

I reserve the right to change my mind on Diggle based on future relationship counselor behavior, but let's hope there isn't much more of it. He's terrible at it, and I'd much rather him deal with his functional relationship and watch him out in the field kicking ass, even if he continues to fight crime in all his unmasked glory. If he's not worried about showing identifying features, might as well go shirtless. For reasons.
 

Edited November 23, 2014 by apinknightmare

[pivot]

And that doesn't surprise me as Greg Berlanti's writing sweet spot is more family and romantic dramas, so he'd pay more attention to those kinds of beats, I think it's really obvious that him not being there in the room when they are writing the weekly scripts is why we have what we have: plot driven, character negligible writing. As much as I I didn't care for the front half of S1, and I hated Tommy-Laurel-Oliver the emotional connective tissue was always there, both in terms of family and romance. Guggenheim is absolutely not capable for looking out for that aspect of the show at all. The heart has been cut out of the show (and transplanted into the Flash which is FULL of heart), because he can't be bothered to take care of that end of the story.

Is Berlanti permanently going to Flash or will he return to Arrow once it has been fully launched? Because the relationships on this show are definitely suffering due to behind the scenes changes.

[statsgirl]

Berlanti just keeps getting more and more shows.  Season 1, all he had on was Arrow. This year he's also got The Flash and Mysteries of Laura, and he's developing a Supergirl series.

 

I think the best we can hope for it that they hire or promote someone to join Guggenheim in show-running duties so balance him because Guggenheim by  himself, even with input from Berlanti and Kreisburg, is not balancing things well.

[Danny Franks]

I think the key mistake being made in trying to understand why Diggle is siding so clearly with Oliver is... trying to find a character reason why Diggle would act like that. When it boils down to it, he's doing it because the plot dictates that he should, and none of the writers have stopped to wonder whether the character they've created should or would act like that.

 

All you need to do is look back at that season timeline illustration, and you can pinpoint so many of the beginnings of a show's slide in things that are happening on Arrow. Characters being fitted to plot, rather than vice versa? Check. Resorting more and more to tired tropes and clichés? Check. Series creators leaving to start up their own vanity projects? Checkity check.

[Morrigan2575]

On yeah, they skipped S3/4 and went straight to S6...AKA the crap seasons.

[wonderwall]

I like this meta about Oliver/Felicity :p 

 

I genuinely think that this is the first time Oliver has really been in love. No, but hear me out. It’s just that, all evidence points to this being the case. He’s seen Laurel with Tommy. He’s seen Sara with Nyssa. He knew how Slade felt about Shado. Of the three, Laurel was the only one he ever fancied himself “in love” with, yet we’ve never seen him as completely unhinged and unravelling and, most importantly, we’ve never seen him as unable to compartmentalise his feelings, over a woman as he is now.

I’m not saying at all that Oliver did not love the other women. I just feel watching him now that, it was a very different kind of love. The kind of love that allowed room for him to accept them not being with him or being tied up with other people. With Felicity, it’s this all-encompassing thing that affects every part of his life. He knows in his head that he wants her to be happy - or at least he believes that he should want her to be happy - but, it’s as though every bone in his body rebels against the idea of her with anyone that is not him.
 

And this isn’t even a new development. I mean, this is the same man who practically had a conniption over Barry Allen. That’s considering Felicity and Barry barely made it past holding hands. Even the thought of her with a comatose Barry was enough of an annoyance to him as to cause him to throw a tantrum. Think about it. He lost it because Felicity was visiting Barry. Who was unconscious. After being struck by lightning. Ridiculous, right?

Not quite so ridiculous if viewed in the context of this being the first time Oliver has really been in love. He doesn’t know how to deal with what he’s feeling because he has nothing to compare it to. There’s no precedent in his life for it.
 

Oliver Queen is so far gone on Felicity Smoak, it’s almost hilarious. Or, well, it would be if it weren’t also totally tragic. Haha. Such fun. What a fun time.

Source

Edited November 25, 2014 by wonderwall

[NumberCruncher]

I don't think that meta too far off, @wonderwall. And it fits with what Guggenheim has said in the past about the Oliver/Felicity dynamic--i.e. that it seems more like love than lust (which is something what the vast majority of Oliver's past relationships have been based upon). I have no doubt that Oliver loved other women (see: Laurel) but has he ever been "in love" to the point that he's not able to fully function in other aspects of his life?

[Guest]

I agree with that meta too. I don't usually like to discredit previous love interests because I don't think that's fair and I believe that Oliver did love Laurel in his own way. But I see it as a different kind of love - almost shallow in a sense that he had feelings but obviously not enough to stop him from sleeping with other women or to take their relationship to the next level and move in together.

 

And I think a lot of Oliver's actions in s1 where Laurel was concerned were a consequence of him idealising their love and relationship while on the island as a means of hope. He focused so much on it that I think he lost sight of the reality of that relationship and how it wasn't enough. I think we've all done that. You either remember all the bad about something or you remember only the good and I think Oliver chose to focus on the good as a way of coping with hell.

 

I think it's also important to note that Laurel never really knew Oliver the way that Felicity does. She's seen him at his very worst, there are no lies between them. She believes in him, challenges him. Everything is very real and raw and I think that's why this love is a whole other level that Oliver has never explored.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Guest

[statsgirl]

Just as Oliver idealized his relationship with Laurel, I think Laurel refused to look at the real Oliver, the facile, cheating guy, because she wanted to be the future Mrs. Oliver Queen.  She was there when he was at his worst but she didn't see it because she didn't want to see it.  They're more honest with each other now but for most of the time they've known each other, there were too many lies between them.

[GirlWednesday]

Been thinking about Oliver and Sarah's relationship evolution And the lunge last season. I know the writers likely didn't decide to OFF Sara until the hiatus so ignoring that or even including that I guess , I can now understand why the lunge happened. Here are two people who hooked up, liked each other and something terrible happened before their love story ended mutually. On the island, oliver and Sara kept losing each other and it became desperate (maybe) and tragic. Sarah returns with resolve and even more damaged. But she's back. They are even more kindred than ever and they have another chance. Looking back now, it makes sense to deal with that unresolved tragic story before jumping into a more innocent love story with Felicity.

From that perspective, sealing the fact that oliver loves Felicity with an outright declaration with no uncertainty. Maybe the writers want to focus on each characters identity crisis this season more than anything else. Roy is struggling with his whatever. Diggle with daddy hero balancing. Felcity balancing her light with darkness of the lair and Debbie downer oliver. Oliver not balancing at all bcuz he's a dumbass. Laurel with her trying to be a hero. Ray embarking on a hero journey. If these are the threads writers want to focus on, rather than a love story. I guess it's ok becuz a set love story with felicity as the girl but not a relationship I can handle. What I won't watch is a triangle with a false hero who doesn't know anything of anything.

If I think like this, it makes it almost okay that I didn't see anyone get their flirting on.

Edited November 25, 2014 by GirlWednesday

[foreverevolving]

@GirlWednesday you pretty much said my own notion of the Sara/Oliver relationship and why I too think it needed to happen and happen the way it did. And also why i am fine so far with the progression of the show this season (minus Murdering Black Canary and Fakanary trying to be Canary).

[SmallScreenDiva]

... I wouldn't be surprised if she does ultimately end up being Oliver's endgame romance, either. These people do not have the creative ability to write and sustain a healthy relationship between charactes, from what I've seen. So if Oliver and Felicity get together at the end of this season, they'll be done by the end of season 4. No way these clowns will refrain from resorting to cheap drama to sour things between them, and it'll probably turn nearly everyone off the pairing.

 

I'm not totally thrilled with how the show has been handling Oliver and Felicity's romance this season. But strangely enough, I'm feeling more and more that Olicity is endgame. After two seasons of the show basically blowing up the Lauriver romance, it will be really difficult to reset that relationship. So, at this point, I can't see them going back to that. Not even because of comics. I mean, Arrow had characters left and right repeatedly pointing out how bad, toxic and stupid Laurel and Oliver are for each other. On the other hand, Oliver and Felicity have Diggle, the voice of the audience and conscience of the show, spend an entire episode trying to get them together.

 

Romance was always going to be part of Oliver's journey to being a hero. They tried it with Laurel but realized very quickly that not a lot of people cared. So they shifted gears. Now, it's Felicity. Her love for him and his for her will help make Oliver into a full-fledged hero. David Ramsey says it himself in an interview with TV Fanatic at the fan screening: "This is part of the reason why he wants Oliver to be with Felicity … For Diggle, there’s no confusion for him. He can be a father, a husband and a crime fighter … Oliver is still wrestling with his demons … To some degree, Diggle is where Oliver will be emotionally in two or three years. Or hopefully soon, for Felicity’s sake.” He also says, “When he says be with Felicity, he’s talking about embracing your humanity, which he’s always telling [Oliver] to do. Being with Felicity is another piece of that puzzle in Diggle’s mind.”

 

Does that make sense? It made sense in my head, HAHAHA!

[statsgirl]

I think at this point, I'm fairly confident that Oliver/Laurel is not longer endgame, even if I'm still not ready to say that Oliver/Felicity is.  Usually when an endgame couple is apart or with other partners, there are still longing looks and the occasional anvil from another person that they should be together.  What we've had is repeated statements by both characters that they shouldn't be together starting from Tommy's grave site, and third party statements, from Diggle, Barry and even Moira that Oliver and Felicity have a connection.  Plus Oliver/Felicity is way more popular to the general audience than Oliver/Laurel ever was.

 

On the other hand, I don't really trust these EPs to do what is better dramatically rather than is what in their comic book hearts.

 

As for the question of whether Felicity fought hard enough for her relationship with Oliver, it reminds me of this old joke:

How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?

  -  

  -

  -

  -

  -

One, but it has to really want to change.

[foreverevolving]

So we've been talking about red pill vs blue pill being used as a strong symbolism on the show and in terms of Olicity vs. Raylicity
I've been doing some quick rewatching of previous seasons looking for scenes for a fan-vid i'm thinking of creating and this pop up as i was watching 1x16...

you know who in red, while cop lady (who's name i just can never remember to write correctly) is in blue.

 

FYI this isn't about pointing Laurliver is in any form a potential endgame (dear TPTB: NO!), but merely that it seems a recurring theme. like the light one.

Edited November 30, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Kordi]

I am doing some reflections on my issues with the Laurel character, and I take this to the relationship thread, because I think the problem I have with accepting Laurel has to do precisely with relationships. Let me try to explain and bear with me. (I'll have to build up my argument in a few steps.)

 

This show - as we all know - is about Oliver's journey and development from killer/ vigilante to superhero/ Green Arrow. It's a story about personal growth, healing of inner wounds, overcoming the shadows of the past and building up a new life, a life where Oliver both finds happiness and actively promotes the good for the people around him.

 

Integral to this journey are the personal relationships that Oliver has, because it's these relationships that help him to grow and to become more emotionally mature and responsible. Now, the show is set up in such a way that almost every supporting character has a unique and irreplacable relationship with Oliver, a relationship that is indispensable in the sense that nobody of the other supporting characters could have that particular kind of relationship with Oliver and, therefore, contribute to his growth in that particular way.

 

The more a particular relationship is deepened and cultivated, the more certain aspects of Oliver's character can improve:

(i) Oliver-Felicity: a relationship of "being in love" with somebody, a relationship of intimacy that goes far beyond mere romance or lust, a relationsship that is based on intuitive mutual knowledge, understanding, encouragement and trust [unfortunately, a relationship largely put on hold right now]. In this relationship Oliver can learn (in the long run) how to become a spouse with whom a new family can be built, and what's even more, how to become a better person in general.

(ii) Oliver-Diggle: a friendship between men ("bromance"). Its potential for Oliver's growth consists in him becoming a true friend "in life and death".

(iii) Oliver-Thea: relationship between siblings. Since Thea is the only blood relative left on the show, the relationship with her is especially important for Oliver insofar it represents and symbolizes all the family ties he has. Fostering this relationships means Oliver becoming more and more a caring brother.

(iv) Oliver-Roy: a relationship between mentor and apprentice. Here, Oliver can learn to be a true teacher and guide for somebody who is much younger and has less experience than he himself has. To a certain degree (and given that the EPs - hopefully IMHO - refrain from bringing children onto the show) this relationship could even include some aspects of a healthy father-son relationship.

(v) Oliver-Quentin: Now, this is a relationship that hasn't been fleshed out enough yet. But I for one see a certain potential here: In the permanent absence of Robert and Moira, Quentin could become for Oliver a kind of parental figure. IMO, for his personal growth, Oliver needs a relationship with somebody from the older generation, too, somebody he can act and relate towards as a kind of son. (However, I'm not sure if we will ever see this on our screens.)

 

Having set out all this, here is my problem with Laurel: However hard I try to think about it, I can't see any unique, irreplacable and indispensable relationship that Laurel has - or could possibly have - with Oliver, a relationship that would be in some sense integral to and necessary for Oliver's journey from killer to superhero. At the beginning of the show, her character was designed as Oliver's love interest, i.e. she was supposed - more or less - to take the place that Felicity has now. Ever since it became obvious that this original idea didn't work, the show runners haven't come up with any alternative kind of meaningful relationship between Oliver and Laurel, a relationship that could contribute to Oliver's personal growth.

 

In conclusion: The MAIN problem of Laurel's character was/ is neither (i) her not knowing the Arrow's identity, nor (ii) her not having a mask and a superhero identity, nor (iii) her being kind of bitchy or self-absorbed or morally questionable many times... The MAIN problem with Laurel - as far as I can see it - is that her character doesn't do what a supporting character is supposed to do, namely, supporting the lead character's development during the course of the show. Laurel is like a loose thread that is not tied into the web of the show that consists in Oliver's personal growth. And as long as the show doesn't fix this problem (and honestly, I have no idea at all how this could possibly be done), Laurel will always seem to be a character that is superfluous and unnecessary at best and distracting and irritating at worst.

 

ETA: Let me add here that if Sara had not been killed off, she and Oliver could have a relationship that would be very interesting regarding Oliver's personal development (i.e. unlike the relationship between Laurel and Oliver). This is so, because Sara was the only person on the show who could say to Oliver: "I know and understand perfectly what you went through, what this felt like and how it changed you." Sara shared experiences with Oliver that nobody else on the show could have. It would have been great to watch how two people who both went through five years of hell relate to each other. I would have loved to compare their respective character developments throughout the course of the show. If they had been given the opportunity of some more honest and sincere exchanges from time to time this could have been a benefit for both of their characters' growth. - That's why I am so bitter about Sara's death. Apart from CL being a more believable fighter than KC, there was a special connection between Sara and Oliver that Laurel and Oliver will never have.

 

O.K. I'm done at last. Sorry for a very wordy post!

Edited November 30, 2014 by Kordi

[foreverevolving]

"I know and understand perfectly what you went through, what this felt like and how it changed you." Sara shared experiences with Oliver that nobody else on the show could have. It would have been great to watch how two people who both went through five years of hell relate to each other.

 

That's why, while so many were agains it, i never had any issues with Sara and Oliver relationship!

There was enough common ground - which we have been shown- for it to be a potential endgame relationship, and I would have been fine with it. They had the chemistry, and there was enough there to evolve that relationship into a proper one, down the line. they were nowhere near ready for it in season 2 when they did their thing, but i think given time and more development it could have.

now obviously i prefer Olicity, but Canarrow would have been an absolute fine 2nd choice as far as i am concerned. 

[icandigit]

 

there was a special connection between Sara and Oliver that Laurel and Oliver will never have.

I came here to post something kinda related. One of the things I loved about S2 was the camaraderie between Oliver and Sara on and off the field. I was really looking forward to her dropping by periodically this season and helping team arrow out. Maybe getting to see a non-intrusive storyline involving her and the league.  And them both being bad asses who have differing opinions on things. I'm entertained as much when they disagree as when thy were on the same page.

 

Oliver and Laurel who had the term 'anti-chemistry' thrown at them are now given more opportunities to interact. They are not enjoyable to watch together, how will this be any better when she's in the field.

[wonderwall]

There's still 20 odd years that Diggle and Felicity don't know about. Once Thea knows the secret she'll be the only living person who truly knows Oliver. I think.

 

Yeah but it's clear that Oliver is a changed person therefore Felicity/Diggle don't really need to know pre-island Oliver to truly understand/know who he is now. Just like how the audience doesn't really need to know Felicity's backstory in order to understand who she is now. And I also think that it's important that pre-island, Thea was only 12 years old so it's safe to say she didn't really know him that much either. The age gap is important here. Like I said, Thea and Oliver are close and they love each other, but that doesn't mean they know each other very well. 

 

I think once Thea finally discovers that Oliver is the Arrow, she will be in the ranks of Felicity and Diggle in terms of understanding him, but I still think even then, Felicity and Diggle will still edge her out in that department because, like I said before, they're the only two he truly opens up to in regards to his feelings and his thoughts. 

[wingster55]

I disagree...Oliver changed but he still retained old Oliver. Which is why imo when Tommy learned the secret for those two or three months he was the person who knew Oliver best. The pre-Island stuff is important too.

 

I think once Thea finally discovers that Oliver is the Arrow, she will be in the ranks of Felicity and Diggle in terms of understanding him, but I still think even then, Felicity and Diggle will still edge her out in that department because, like I said before, they're the only two he truly opens up to in regards to his feelings and his thoughts.

 

When she does I think he'll be more open. I actually remember he and Thea talking about things and feelings in the first few eps before they for some reason dropped that relationship mostly.

I hope they go back to that.

[wonderwall]

I disagree...Oliver changed but he still retained old Oliver. Which is why imo when Tommy learned the secret for those two or three months he was the person who knew Oliver best. The pre-Island stuff is important too.

 

When she does I think he'll be more open. I actually remember he and Thea talking about things and feelings in the first few eps before they for some reason dropped that relationship mostly.

I hope they go back to that.

I guess we'll agree to disagree because I don't think the pre-island stuff is important because even then Oliver was still in the process of defining himself. I don't really think even then Oliver knew who he was or what he wanted to be which is why he was such a screw up. This is why I don't think pre-island Oliver was important to get to know because I thoroughly believe Oliver now is distancing himself from that person. Even now, Oliver is having trouble defining himself, but the difference is, is that Felicity and Digg are there to witness this change which is why I think they'll always know Oliver better than anyone else. 

 

And I thought it was sort of clear that Tommy didn't really know that Oliver changed, especially with the whole welcome home party and everything... But I guess it's just me? There was no clear indication that Tommy understood post-island Oliver... 

 

I hope he is more open with Thea when she finds out too. I really really do. But I won't hold my breath. 

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

Replying to dancingnancy here.

First let me make my biases clear: I'm not a fan of Oliver. I like him pretty much only in relationship to three people: Thea, Diggle, and Felicity. Okay three ALIVE people, I loved him with Sara, The Real Canary Realness.

So that bias out of the way, I simply have not seen that what Oliver believes about Olicity or relationships in general is that he doesn't deserve them.What he has always framed it as, and what I think he truly does believe it to be, is that he's not capable of them. I've used a line from Sex, Lies, and Videotape (You just can't walk up to her and show her you've changed....like it's some gift or somethin') for him so often because he's SO MUCH like Graham in that movie. Like Graham, Oliver used to Lie and use Women for sex, now he has to Lie to everyone to be a Hero. Like Graham, he *can not* have a relationship, but only because he *will not* have a relationship, like Graham he wants to control and compartmentalize. And like Graham he falsely believes this is making him a better more whole, or at least more emotionally ethical person. When really it just makes him a pathetic asshole, hiding from the world, and certainly from real intimacy.

I also can't buy this whole the life he wants to have with Felicity? What is it specifically with Felicity that he can not have?That he does not ALREADY have? If we accept Oliver IS happy with being The Arrow, being a hero, that he values it in and of itself, well Felicity is ALREADY a part of that, he is ALREADY in love with her, he is DISTRACTED by his feelings with her or without. He needs to man up, and realize we control our own scripts, he can *have* whatever life he CHOOSES to have, babies and fences and lairs and arrows all with partner and wife Felicity and friends and allies like Aresenal, Real Canary Realness, and the rest of the JL. I'm just about out of patience with him getting there.

I resent having to watch him relearn all the stuff he learned over two seasons squished into three months just so they can delay Olicity, but maybe by some miracle of God he'll manage to declare himself to Felicity wholly and unambiguously before the winter break, and without some further contrivance to keep them apart.

AMEN!

I get this is TV but I can't stand this shit in real life. It doesn't make for good TV any more than it strengthens relationship IRL. It is a painful and awkward dance. Figure it out, Oliver, before I would rather see Felicity with a new server than you.

Oliver the character needs Felicity. This season he is barely tolerable. Felicity and Digg make him tolerable and borderline enjoyable. As this is his show I wish Felicity for him. If this was her show, I wouldn't wish him on her.

[wingster55]

And I thought it was sort of clear that Tommy didn't really know that Oliver changed, especially with the whole welcome home party and everything... But I guess it's just me? There was no clear indication that Tommy understood post-island Oliver...

 

After knowing the secret I meant.

Also this is unrelated but I've always thought Tommy hated going back to that lifestyle with Oliver just as much as Oliver did. He changed as well but really just wanted to be around his best friend again.

[Carrie Ann]

Also this is unrelated but I've always thought Tommy hated going back to that lifestyle with Oliver just as much as Oliver did. He changed as well but really just wanted to be around his best friend again.

 

I agree on that--or at least, I feel like I have to agree if I'm to like Tommy at all. Tommy seemed very different to me with Laurel than with "Ollie," at least in the first part of S1. I don't think Tommy was really that guy anymore either, but he didn't really know how else to be with Oliver and he knew Oliver was keeping things from him, and was trying to hold onto him in whatever way possible. I never had much use for Tommy and I don't miss him from the show one bit, but I do think I could have come to like him more after he got to know Oliver again, and they formed a new friendship based on the people they grew up to be. 

[wonderwall]

Basically the Flash episode of the crossover debuted Mr. and Ms. Smoak (Oliver/Felicity). And it was glorious. The scenes at the Jitters and the end when Oliver/Felicity were saying bye to team Flash was pretty much how I expect their relationship to be when they do get together. And to be honest, I so can't wait for that lol

Edited December 3, 2014 by wonderwall

[KenyaJ]

Basically the Flash episode of the crossover debuted Mr. and Ms. Smoak (Oliver/Felicity). And it was glorious. That scenes at the Jitters and the end when Oliver/Felicity were saying bye to team Flash was pretty much how I expect their relationship to be when they do get together. And to be honest, I so can't wait for that lol

 

I had the exact same thought! That's exactly what I've always wanted of them -- them being a team, knowing each other inside out, and just being a quiet force in the background. It was so great. It gives me hope for when the writers finally tire of the current angst fest. 

[foreverevolving]

Basically the Flash episode of the crossover debuted Mr. and Ms. Smoak (Oliver/Felicity). And it was glorious. The scenes at the Jitters and the end when Oliver/Felicity were saying bye to team Flash was pretty much how I expect their relationship to be when they do get together. And to be honest, I so can't wait for that lol

 

I was just about to comment about those scenes. I loved the first scene, when Felicity is convincing Oliver to help Barry, and how they kept making googley (?) eyes at each other.. it was so adorable.

I thought there was supposed to be a "they act like married couple" or something similar from Iris about Oliver and Felicity?

Edited December 3, 2014 by foreverevolving

[apinknightmare]

I was just about to comment about those scenes. I loved the first scene, when Felicity is convincing Oliver to help Barry, and how they kept making googley (?) eyes at each other.. it was so adorable.

I thought there was supposed to be a "they act like married couple" or something similar from Iris about Oliver and Felicity?

 

I think that was it. That and when Felicity stepped in for Oliver when he was making that speech to the Flash team and smoothed things over. 

[WaitandHope]

Oliver, Oliver, Oliver. So wise and so stupid - both aspects of his personality were on full display. Wise on how to be a superhero, stupid on how to be human being.

I guess the final scene at jitters was him reacting to seeing Felicity with Ray last week. But his attempt to commiserate with Barry totally fell flat. I mean 'guys like us don't get the girl.' WTH? Oliver gets any girl he wants. He just chooses to not be with the one HE wants.

I mean - it was his usual doltish self when it comes to matters of the heart, but this time Barry-Iris wasn't even remotely comparable to him and Felicity. But maybe he thinks it is? In which case, boy is he really an idiot in matters of the heart. If this to show his total lack of understanding of relationships with women, then I guess it was insightful? Though terrible advice. Barry is not him. Eddie is not Ray. Iris is certainly not Felicity. The situations have nothing in common other than they add up to 3 people.

[wonderwall]

I guess the final scene at jitters was him reacting to seeing Felicity with Ray last week. But his attempt to commiserate with Barry totally fell flat. I mean 'guys like us don't get the girl.' WTH? Oliver gets any girl he wants. He just chooses to not be with the one HE wants.

Yes, it's true that Oliver can get any girl. But I don't think he believes he can get the girl. The girl who is right for him. The girl who makes his day better just by being there. The girl who complements him in almost every way.  Why? Because he's an idiot... Because maybe he's not really ready to be with the girl yet... But he'll get there. And when he does, I think it'll be all the more sweeter to see them together. That being said, I hope the writers don't use any more stupid tropes to keep them apart after Ray leaves. I think Oliver deserves to be happy, and Felicity is key to that happiness. Felicity along with Thea and Diggle. 

Edited December 3, 2014 by wonderwall

[Carrie Ann]

I'm just disappointed that he would make the same mistake with Barry that he already made once with Roy. Telling Roy to stay away from Thea only made her MORE vulnerable, and eventually less trusting in general. I thought Oliver had realized that he'd botched that one.

 

And yeah, if anything, he and Felicity just seemed MORE in sync in this episode. More than they have since the premiere. But OK, just keep telling yourself that you don't get the girl, Oliver.

[statsgirl]

I think Oliver and Felicity could be more in sync in this episodes because it wasn't about Oliver's relationship with her.  That's why I hate the stupid will they/won't they trope writing, it ruins both the characters we've come to love and their interactions with each other.

 

I could do a lot more of this kind of stuff from Oliver and Felicity, and the flirting from the beginning of The Calm before it all blew up.

[TanyaKay]

Yes, it's true that Oliver can get any girl. But I don't think he believes he can get the girl. The girl who is right for him. The girl who makes his day better just by being there. The girl who complements him in almost every way.  Why? Because he's an idiot... Because maybe he's not really ready to be with the girl yet... But he'll get there. And when he does, I think it'll be all the more sweeter to see them together. That being said, I hope the writers don't use any more stupid tropes to keep them apart after Ray leaves. I think Oliver deserves to be happy, and Felicity is key to that happiness. Felicity along with Thea and Diggle. 

 

Oliver and Felicity acting married is TV Gold, I seriously do not get why they try to keep them apart. Them being totally normal doing average things like eating and drinking is way more interesting than contrived angst of any other love interests.

I mean you do not stumble upon the gem that is Oliver/Felicity chemistry every day and then let it go to waste on things like Sara Lance, Ray Palmer and totally stupid angst!!! You get them together, let them become a solid silent force to be reckoned with and create drama through villains and other relationships. Oliver and Felicity are perfect as long as they are together, they make mundane things like drinking coffee so interesting.

[writersblock51]

Yes, it's true that Oliver can get any girl. But I don't think he believes he can get the girl. The girl who is right for him. The girl who makes his day better just by being there. The girl who complements him in almost every way.  Why? Because he's an idiot... Because maybe he's not really ready to be with the girl yet... But he'll get there. And when he does, I think it'll be all the more sweeter to see them together. That being said, I hope the writers don't use any more stupid tropes to keep them apart after Ray leaves. I think Oliver deserves to be happy, and Felicity is key to that happiness. Felicity along with Thea and Diggle. 

 

The part in bold is exactly the stuff that the show is vulnerable to doing - I don't think they can help themselves.  And the latest "stupid trope" showed up in the final minutes of this episode at the coffee shop.

 

I loved Felicity & Oliver in this episode.  No surprise that Ben Sokolowski wrote (or co-wrote) this episode. He seems to do a good job of writing their relationship along the organic lines that make them so appealing to so many,

 

I also loved the Original Team Arrow stuff, as always (they all brought the snark).  They worked so well on so many levels with Team Flash, too.

 

Wells.... I think Team Flash and now Felicity are aware that he's not a purely benevolent figure in Barry's life anymore.

[DrSpaceman10]

The part in bold is exactly the stuff that the show is vulnerable to doing - I don't think they can help themselves.  And the latest "stupid trope" showed up in the final minutes of this episode at the coffee shop.

 

Baby Mama Drama can destroy couples, so I really hope they keep it to a minimum and/or don't use it to come between Oliver and Felicity. Of course, I don't have that much faith that the writers will take the mature route. 

[Password]

I'm holding on to the hope that Felicity said she's a HAWKER. Hopefully that means it will be FINE when that drama arises, and not cause unnecessary drama.

[Lady Calypso]

I agree with everything said. I think Oliver is an absolute idiot for continuing to be this stubborn douche that we've know for two seasons, but given his history not just with women but in general, and it's understandable as to why he's so blind when it comes to this. He just won't allow himself to be happy, and that's the problem. He'd rather be miserable and think he's keeping people safe that way, than be happy and worry about him being others' downfall. I think he summed up his feelings with what he said to Team Flash Mob about his identity and why he wants it kept secret. He doesn't quite want to realize that Felicity, Diggle, Roy and everyone else who knows his secret is already in constant danger and it's not up to him to decide his own happiness has to be sacrificed for others. It's actually quite a miserable life Oliver lives. Actually, it's extremely depressing. He may be a douche for being this way, but it's definitely not without reason. 

 

That being said, lighten up, Oliver! You have a really nice smile and when you have fun, we have fun. It's such a rarity to see a genuine smile on his face. He does this half-faked smile when around people like Iris, because he's not truly happy around them. But then he gets to Felicity and Diggle (and hell, even Barry now) and his face just lights up. He should be happy with Felicity. He does need to let things go, learn that everything he's trying to prevent is going to happen anyway and that he deserves to be happy. Time's short, anyway. Enjoy it while you can, Oliver. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Call me shallow but damn, the height and size difference between Oliver and Felicity in this GIF is making me squee

 

 

And the smiling here ... God, I've missed this ...

 

 

GIFs from this blog

[Password]

How close their hands are is making me emotional.

[TanyaKay]

Everything about Oliver and Felicity makes me emotional.

[writersblock51]

I missed the height/size differences but yeah, that photo...

 

And I can't believe how they are NOT touching hands. Or that he didn't pat hers before he got up. Or something.

 

Dorks.

[FireFoxy]

I loved how Oliver/Felicity were written last night. They were so in sync with each other and were a united front. It made me see how awesome they could be as a legit couple and made me sad that the writers went there this season instead of holding out until at least next season because now we have to deal with the stupid obstacles and angst. But damn that chemistry.

[Chaser]

Anyone else notice that he was leaning forward with his hands so close to Felicity's, but when Iris went to the table he sat up quick and crossed his arms (then went back to the position when she left)? And when they stopped in again, Oliver put is hands behind his back and stepped closer and slightly behind Felicity when Iris came up. SA body language was so interesting in this episode.

 

Gotta love the gif sets.

[Password]

Yeah I gotta say I think I noticed EVERYTHING this episode concerning these two. Both of their body language just screamed married. Or at the very least VERY INTO ONE ANOTHER. I adored Felicity's smile behind Iris at Barry when she heard the "I made a fresh pot". Barry's face was like " oh I can't believe this". Just everything was perfect.

[Velocity23]

When i saw those gifs this cheesy song was stuck in my head. Dammit you cute adorbale idiots!

[Chaser]

"So Close" by Jon Mclaughlin has become Oliver/Felicity's theme song for me.

[Guest]

Call me shallow but damn, the height and size difference between Oliver and Felicity in this GIF is making me squee

 

 

And the smiling here ... God, I've missed this ...

 

 

GIFs from this blog

 

That bottom one, I can't stop staring. THE CHEMISTRY. I've missed these little moments so much.

 

You know when they get together the only thing that will change is Oliver will be holding her hand and will give her a kiss before he gets up and goes and does whatever she says. Lol.

[Password]

You know when they get together the only thing that will change is Oliver will be holding her hand and will give her a kiss before he gets up and goes and does whatever she says. Lol.

Exactly.

[FireFoxy]

I laugh when people say SA/EBR don't have any chemistry. Like, I can understand if you don't like Oliver/Felicity together but to say they don't have any chemistry?!? Come on now.

[JenMD]

"So Close" by Jon Mclaughlin has become Oliver/Felicity's theme song for me.

Oh, I love that song so much.

 

Many thanks for all the lovely gifs people are bringing over.

[wingster55]

I laugh when people say SA/EBR don't have any chemistry. Like, I can understand if you don't like Oliver/Felicity together but to say they don't have any chemistry?!? Come on now.

 

It's there but I don't see it as all that great really. 

 

I hear lots of compliments for Flash showing Team Arrow more than Arrow actually does this season...but..it didn't really. Not as far as Diggle is concerned.