Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[ladylaw99]

That is my problem. I don't understand what the interest is.  Oliver wanting to move on? Ok, but why not set it out better, you know not with a shady reporter that the audience might not root for.  A new friend for Oliver? But didn't he make like 3 new friends in ep 1.  I just don't believe Oliver would go for someone that has been proven to be untrustworthy again, I would expect him to have learned his lesson., except it is for plot.

[insomniadreams88]

11 minutes ago, bijoux said:

With Susan, I've got nothing. I get that from a storytelling standpoint they want something in this arena for their lead and that they want conflict what with her being a journalist and a potential threat to both sides of him. But when I think about why Oliver wants it I come out blank. I think they tried to imply that he's looking for a friend (maybe?), but the rest of the narrative doesn't support that he'd need to go looking for one outside his circle. Maybe the thing would have made more sense if they isolated him from the others.

It might have worked if everyone had surrounded Felicity in 509 and only Diggle or Thea had moved to Oliver. Instead, he had an entire team of people telling him that they were there for him. 

It just looks like as soon as Oliver found out Felicity had a BF and he decided he should try to move on too, he figured that the first female to show him attention was his best bet. HT told him Susan was interested, so Oliver decided, "Yep, that works."

[ladylaw99]

If that is the case, IMO Oliver is pathetic.

[dtissagirl]

10 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

It just looks like as soon as Oliver found out Felicity had a BF and he decided he should try to move on too, he figured that the first female to show him attention was his best bet. HT told him Susan was interested, so Oliver decided, "Yep, that works."

Sometimes I think Oliver isn't a real character -- he's just trapped in a connect the dots adventure book that the writers are having a bit of a hard time figuring out.

[tangerine95]

Yeah I really have no idea what Oliver sees in Susan so he chose her of all people to be involved with.It's not like she's really shown any redeeming qualities since the time she backstabed his sister.  It basically looks like he just lazily went for the first person that threw herself at him and is willing to listen to him whine about his life constantly. I mean I was never going to like another relationship for Oliver but at least before I could see some reason for those relationships besides because they need it for plot reasons. 

It's the same with Felicity and Billy, I don't get what was in it for Felicity even as a distraction because Billy was beyond boring and had zero personality. 

[lemotomato]

The answer to all your questions is Because Plot. The show has ALWAYS prioritized plot over consistent characterization. It has happened to everyone on the show at one point or another, and to Oliver most of all because he's the main character.

[Angel12d]

I can only think Oliver was brainwashed by Thea and Felicity calling Susan his girlfriend and the poor thing got confused. Other than that, I agree, it does come across like he went out with Susan because she was there and eh, why not?

[catrox14]

That's why I keep thinking it's Human Target!Oliver not actual!Oliver.

Oliver's behavior with her makes zero sense. I mean I can usually find SOME idiotic reason for oliver's behavior but I can't even find the idiocy here.

[statsgirl]

To me it looks like Oliver is basically a lazy person when it comes to romantic encounters.  He's not going to go after the distant and try to obtain her, it's a case of "love the one you're with".    Laurel went after him after she found out Sara was interested, Sara was Laurel's sister and right there, Helena was presented to him on a platter by her father and Isabel decided to seduce him as part of Slade's plan and her own revenge. Shado was the only woman on the island. The most work we've ever seen him do is to date McKenna and part of that was to get info on what the police were finding out.  With Felicity, she was right there, and she was in love with him already.

When Oliver found out that Felicity had a boyfriend, he reached for the closest woman at hand, no matter how shady or duplicitous she'd been to Thea, and HT was right there handing him Susan's number.  And then Susan did all the work after that, getting Oliver's security detail to tell her when he was leaving the office.  See?  No work to get her at all.  Why look for another date for the Christmas party when Susan is already hanging on his arm?

Edited January 9, 2017 by statsgirl

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

To me it looks like Oliver is basically a lazy person when it comes to romantic encounters.  He's not going to go after the distant and try to obtain her, it's a case of "love the one you're with".    Laurel went after him after she found out Sara was interested, Sara was Laurel's sister and right there, Helena was presented to him on a platter by her father and Isabel decided to seduce him as part of Slade's plan and her own revenge. Shado was the only woman on the island. The most work we've ever seen him do is to date McKenna and part of that was to get info on what the police were finding out.  With Felicity, she was right there, and she was in love with him already.

When Oliver found out that Felicity had a boyfriend, he reached for the closest woman at hand, no matter how shady or duplicitous she'd been to Thea, and HT was right there handing him Susan's number.  And then Susan did all the work after that, getting Oliver's security detail to tell her when he was leaving the office.  See?  No work to get her at all.  Why look for another date for the Christmas party when Susan is already hanging on his are?

I agree with you. But it doesn't make his story with Felicity (or any other woman) particularly romantic LOL.

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

When Oliver found out that Felicity had a boyfriend, he reached for the closest woman at hand, no matter how shady or duplicitous she'd been to Thea, and HT was right there handing him Susan's number.  And then Susan did all the work after that, getting Oliver's security detail to tell her when he was leaving the office.  See?  No work to get her at all.  Why look for another date for the Christmas party when Susan is already hanging on his arm?

Maybe Oliver's laziness is supposed to be a sign of his deeper indifference really in the relationship?

Laurel really in his Ollie days was just kind of his place holder for the future.  He liked her well enough but clearly wasn't that invested.   

Felicity is the exception because by the time he fell in love with her, loving her was not handy or simple or easy because her being around and important was totally at odds with him taking the risk of a relationship.  But now he's back to needing/wanting a just some kind of place holder so Susan will do?    

Quote

It's the same with Felicity and Billy, I don't get what was in it for Felicity even as a distraction because Billy was beyond boring and had zero personality.

With Felicity, Billy's blandness might have been just the kind of normal that she would choose to distract herself with.  

[statsgirl]

True about Felicity not being an easy choice in season 3.  But he still didn't fight for her, he just accepted that they couldn't  be together and punished himself with offering her best wishes for her and Ray (after being mean about him).  In the end, the fighting was on her side as she readily forgave Oliver for the past 7 months and  went off with him to Bali.

Based on what EBR said in an interview, I got the feeling that with Billy, Felicity was looking to see if there was a life beyond Oliver.  She thought that he would never change, that being secretive and making decisions on his own would always be his default in times of stress,  That's not the kind of relationship she wanted for her life no matter how much she loved him so she tried to see if she could get beyond Oliver in a new relationship.

 Or maybe that's EBR's actorwank on the scripts they gave her.

[calliope1975]

14 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Based on what EBR said in an interview, I got the feeling that with Billy, Felicity was looking to see if there was a life beyond Oliver.  She thought that he would never change, that being secretive and making decisions on his own would always be his default in times of stress,  That's not the kind of relationship she wanted for her life no matter how much she loved him so she tried to see if she could get beyond Oliver in a new relationship.

 Or maybe that's EBR's actorwank on the scripts they gave her.

I'm guessing actorwank since she was lying and being secretive to Mayo as well. Yes, she eventually told him the truth but that doesn't explain why she thought starting and being in a relationship with a cop was such a swell idea. Because there isn't one and the answer on this show is PLOT. If he had been uber charming or Bruce Wayne or intriguing I might get it, but there's a reason we call him Mayo. 

[kismet]

6 hours ago, Lidach said:

I am sorry to say this, but Oliver Queen is one lousy human being, from the beginning of the show. At the first, I tolerate, hope for him, because contacts/talks/connections with others, precisely Moira, Thea, Digg, Tommy, Felicity - they all made him more human, more sympathetic. Now, he lost almost all these connections, and consequently those little human treats he showed.  I already said this, but he is like robot to me right now, always with hands in pocket and looking almost without confidence, at the floor, I just can't read his emotions, but also maybe it is actors acting choice. I just don't like it. And if you do, good for you.

Just after 5 years I expected something... more mature and SMART figure, someone more responsible and reasonable by now, not killing non-remorse machine. But that's just me. Maybe in the end of the season he will finally grown. But there is long road to 200th episode, and it's too early for writers to have smart lead. Hope for the best - is all what's left.

This makes me so sad. Because OQ has always been my favorite character. And I have always related to him and connected to his story of redemption. I was invested in his journey, especially considering it was a Hero's journey. But s4 has really turned me off from his journey - s5 has not done anything to get me back invested in his story. I really don't understand the writers' choices to always portray him as dumb and nevermind all the questionable decisions (BMD, Susan, Mayor, etc).

It really is ridiculous that after 5 seasons, the writers cannot find a better way to write a plotline than to throw their characters under a bus starting with their lead. I'm not really looking fwd to the end of s5, nevermind a s6. 200 episodes is a great goal but if the episodes between then & now is anything like the majority of episodes since the s4 crossover I think I'll pass.

All I know is OQ is horrible at relationships. He was getting better and learning to become a better person after his selfish youth and traumatizing 5 years. So I can understand a learning curve, which is what s1-s3 covered. But he should be better by now. They were on the right track in early s4, but then plot took precedence. Every journey has a some setbacks, but s5 has proven we are not on a road of setbacks & roadblocks. We've just decided to restart the journey again in s5. Back to basics, I guess meant pushing the reset button.

Out of all of their failures with rinse/repeat plotlines, I think the worst part is that they negatively impact the human relationships in a very major way. And at the end of the day most successful shows are successful because they are able to capitalize on the relationships. Arrow seems to go out of its way to sabotage the relationships for plot purposes. And I think in the end, prioritizing plot over relationships I think will be the thing that the show is remembered for and not in a good way.

[statsgirl]

MG should be smart enough to know how important relationships are for successful shows.  Maybe his wife can explain it to him

1 hour ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm guessing actorwank since she was lying and being secretive to Mayo as well. Yes, she eventually told him the truth but that doesn't explain why she thought starting and being in a relationship with a cop was such a swell idea. Because there isn't one and the answer on this show is PLOT. If he had been uber charming or Bruce Wayne or intriguing I might get it, but there's a reason we call him Mayo. 

Oh absolutely he was Mayo so he didn't interfere with the Olicity ship.

But if you forget that part and think of him as a real choice, she couldn't tell him about working for the Green Arrow, she couldn't tell him because it wasn't her secret to tell and she didn't know if Mayo could be trusted not to arrest her of even not to tell others.   As for him being a cop, maybe not the wisest decision but look at who she's been attracted to -- the Hood, trying to save the city, Barry Allen who is a CSI, Ray Palmer, also trying to save the city.  Even Cooper was trying to do good by being a hacktivist and wiping out student debt.   Guys who are trying to make the world better are her jam.

Edited January 10, 2017 by statsgirl

[lemotomato]

24 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

But if you forget that part and think of him as a real choice, she couldn't tell him about working for the Green Arrow, she couldn't tell him because it wasn't her secret to tell and she didn't know if Mayo could be trusted not to arrest her of even not to tell others.  

GA's identity and the identity of whomever else is working with GA wa not her secret to tell, but what she spends her days and nights working on is definitely something she needed to be truthful about if she was making a real choice of moving on with Mayo. The show never answered the question of what the heck Felicity and Mayo would even talk about when they're together since she didn't have a day job and presumably wouldn't be able to share much about her night job even after she told him that she worked with GA. How could it have been a real relationship when he knew nothing about such a big part of her life and she way lying to him (either outright, or by omission for most of the time they were dating?

Edited January 10, 2017 by lemotomato

[kismet]

I honestly think it would have been more compelling to not have Mayo be in Law Enforcement. I totally understand that FS is drawn to guys trying to make the world better. I just think there were other professions they could have given. Top of my head - Doctor, Nurse, Philanthropist, Teacher, etc. Imagine the shock if her BF who is not involved in law enforcement was killed by the Bad Guy. Cops are always in the line of fire, so his death as tragic as it was - was really not shocking. But a civilian getting killed would have brought the whole message home stronger that OQ is toxic and his choices lead to bad things.

They really only needed Mayo for the random loft scenes and her access to evidence. I just think they could have found another way to get her access to evidence. I know the budget is tight, but they could have had 2 recurring actors (sexy do-gooder & random cop guy/girl). heck if they allowed her to have friends, may be she could have become friends with a female law enforcement agent and that was who she leaned on for leads/info. Then when her do-gooder BF is tragically killed, FS would have had a shoulder to cry on. Win-Win.

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

How could it have been a real relationship when he knew nothing about such a big part of her life?

Because PLOT :)

[ladylaw99]

All I know for sure is that the writers have failed on both relationships. Nothing against the actors but I have shoes that are more interesting than these characters.

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, kismet said:

They really only needed Mayo for the random loft scenes and her access to evidence. I just think they could have found another way to get her access to evidence. I know the budget is tight, but they could have had 2 recurring actors (sexy do-gooder & random cop guy/girl). heck if they allowed her to have friends, may be she could have become friends with a female law enforcement agent and that was who she leaned on for leads/info. Then when her do-gooder BF is tragically killed, FS would have had a shoulder to cry on. Win-Win.

And think of it this way - how was she getting evidence/analyzing stuff before she started dating Mayo? Did they happen to have all the equipment they needed then in the lair, but suddenly, nope, don't have that because cop BF?

They needed him to be a cop more for GA business - meeting GA in 503, crossing paths with Prometheus and leading to his death in 509 - than for Felicity. (If they didn't make him a cop, they probably never would have mentioned his job at all.)

The fact that they gave them, what, a handful of scenes together, pretty much says exactly how little they cared about that relationship. 

These relationships for Oliver and Felicity just boil down to PLOT and the fact that they seem to think that they couldn't have them both be single when S5 began and not work on getting them back together in 5A. 

[statsgirl]

14 minutes ago, ladylaw99 said:

All I know for sure is that the writers have failed on both relationships. Nothing against the actors but I have shoes that are more interesting than these characters.

I think that's the point though, they wanted Felicity and Oliver to have other love interests but they didn't want to make them so good as to interfere with the Olicity ship.  I still can't root for WestAllen because I think Eddie was much better for Iris than Barry is.  (Not only was he an adult, he wanted to tell Iris The Secret and Barry and Joe wouldn't let him.)

They could have found other ways for Felicity to get to the evidence but this way 1. showed her interacting with Billy without having to take away Arrow/Oliver time, and 2. showed that she was awkwardly lying to Billy the way Oliver had to her in s1.

Being in a relationship and having to lie to the person about your job is SOP in shows like these that involve a secret job or a secret identity.  I'm thinking of Sam on Stargate SG1 lying to the guy she eventually got engaged to (Pete).  In fact, on that show everyone lied to people they were dating who weren't part of the secret govt project.

[ladylaw99]

I guess for me I just wish the writers made it a little bit more interesting and not so obvious that the love interests are for plot.

[ohjoy]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I think that's the point though, they wanted Felicity and Oliver to have other love interests but they didn't want to make them so good as to interfere with the Olicity ship.  I still can't root for WestAllen because I think Eddie was much better for Iris than Barry is.  (Not only was he an adult, he wanted to tell Iris The Secret and Barry and Joe wouldn't let him.)

WORD.

I know it doesn't fit in with PLOT (we have got to make that an acronym for the show somehow), but even as an Olicity fan I would have loved to see Felicity date a nurse or an ER doctor or someone like that. (Although if they given her someone like that with Eddie's looks and personality then Olicity would have been dead as a doornail -- for me at least.)

[looptab]

Just wanted to drop by and remind you all that Mayo was just a test, the real stuff will come when they finally get to Raglicity.

(No, I don't give up :p)

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, looptab said:

Just wanted to drop by and remind you all that Mayo was just a test, the real stuff will come when they finally get to Raglicity.

(No, I don't give up :p)

Hey, I am still holding on to 

Spoiler

possibly 511, platonic or otherwise.

[insomniadreams88]

I can't help but think the minimal time they spent on Felicity/Billy in 5A could have been spent giving us another conversation or two between Felicity and Rory. They set that up as a friendship they were going to develop in 504 and then ... nothing. 

[Thundercatmary]

2 hours ago, RandomMe said:

WORD.

I know it doesn't fit in with PLOT (we have got to make that an acronym for the show somehow)

Plan Lacking Original Thought 

;)

[bijoux]

Pointless Lot of Tomfoolery

[tv echo]

Because Comics.  Lois Lane was the iconic love of Superman but she famously didn't know that he was Clark Kent, which was a big secret that he kept from her. (I don't read the comics, so I don't know when/if this changed.)

Edited January 10, 2017 by tv echo

[ComicFan777]

Also in comics, Iris discovers Barry is the Flash on their wedding night, so I think it's a pretty common comics thing.  It just doesn't translate to real relationships.

Edited January 10, 2017 by ComicFan777

[statsgirl]

Nice of Barry to let her know then.  (What did she think he was doing all the times he suddenly wasn't available?)

That's got to be at least as bad as Felicity not telling Mayo what she doesn't all day.

Edited January 10, 2017 by statsgirl

[Hiveminder]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

Nice of Barry to let her know then.  (What did she think he was doing all the times he suddenly wasn't available?)

That's got to be at least as bad as Felicity not telling Mayo what she doesn't all day.

Comic book characters are just the worst. Writers, please don't base your character's relationship decisions on comics. They're all pretty much terrible people who make bad life choices. 

[bijoux]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Nice of Barry to let her know then.  (What did she think he was doing all the times he suddenly wasn't available?)

I think I read recently that it wasn't Barry telling her on purpose, but rather that she heard him talking in his sleep. In turn she kept it from him until he was ready to tell her down the line. I hope I'm not confusing them with another pair in which one person had a secret identity.

[Starfish35]

34 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I think I read recently that it wasn't Barry telling her on purpose, but rather that she heard him talking in his sleep. In turn she kept it from him until he was ready to tell her down the line. I hope I'm not confusing them with another pair in which one person had a secret identity.

No, from what I've read, that's accurate.

[insomniadreams88]

5 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

Also in comics, Iris discovers Barry is the Flash on their wedding night, so I think it's a pretty common comics thing.  It just doesn't translate to real relationships.

If you get to the point where you're marrying someone - or going to marry someone *cough*Arrow*cough* - there are certain things you should be able to tell someone, since if you're marrying someone, you trust them. Like, how you spend some of your time speeding around the city, that you have a kid, etc. 

[statsgirl]

44 minutes ago, bijoux said:

In turn she kept it from him until he was ready to tell her down the line.

Ugh.  I guess this is where those guys learn to expect women to be super passive (and silent) in their relationships with their comics men.  Because really, if you found out that the guy you just married has a secret superhero crime fighting identity, that's grounds for a massively big "Why didn't you tell me?  Don't you think I have a right to now?" fight.

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

Because Comics.  Lois Lane was the iconic love of Superman but she famously didn't know that he was Clark Kent, which was a big secret that he kept from her. (I don't read the comics, so I don't know when/if this changed.)

Yeah, it changed eventually, but not until at least the eighties, maybe nineties.  What was so extra messed up was that he basically dated her as both Clark and Superman and she over and over was sure she knew his secret only for him to create these elaborate schemes to prove her wrong and more than that, punish her for trying to figure him out.  They dynamic was seriously disturbing.  It amazes me they freaked out over young minds being corrupted by the violence and other unsavory stuff but were fine with how relationships were portrayed.

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Ugh.  I guess this is where those guys learn to expect women to be super passive (and silent) in their relationships with their comics men.  Because really, if you found out that the guy you just married has a secret superhero crime fighting identity, that's grounds for a massively big "Why didn't you tell me?  Don't you think I have a right to now?" fight.

Maybe they think it's better for the woman to be completely in the dark until the superhero dies in a fight against a villain, the news reports on it, she's waiting for her husband to come home still and then the news reports, "And X was actually..." and she learns that way that the man she married is never coming home. 

[statsgirl]

32 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 What was so extra messed up was that he basically dated her as both Clark and Superman and she over and over was sure she knew his secret only for him to create these elaborate schemes to prove her wrong and more than that, punish her for trying to figure him out.

Is that the template for the Barry/Patty reveal last season of Flash and the justification for why she was such a terrible person comes from?  She was Joe's partner on the metahuman task force, she knew all about metahumans and yet he still didn't tell her even though she would have accepted it. And when she finally tricked him into confirming it and he still denied it and she broke up with him, she was considered just the worst person ever.

So warped. So warping of young minds.

[rtalive]

On 1/9/2017 at 6:33 PM, GirlvsTV said:

She was willing to jump into a relationship with him at the end of season 3 and believed that he'd changed for the better after all the LOA stuff. Then he lied to her again and chose to continue making gigantic life decisions w/o her after they were engaged. She realized that was not something she could live with in a marriage, that it was just who he was and he would never change, so she broke it off.  Then Oliver grossly manipulated her into that fake wedding and spent the rest of season 4 whining about his crap decisions and having everyone pat him on the back.

Cut to 5a where they are now 'friends' and he chose again to keep stuff from her, not to mention how his sh*t choices led to him killing her BF and then leaving her to cry alone while he whined some more and smooched all up on Reporter Lady.

Clearly he was a great fiancé and friend.

Ok, he is really bad person, treats people really bad, hope she never forgives him, and he gets into being a playboy again ;) ;) ;)

Anyway I am not going to defend Oliver, but how exactly is he leaving her alone to cry, she is alone, because her boyfriend is the dead Billy, not Oliver. 

You do realize, that when you are an ex boyfriend, there is no place for you next to your ex girlfriend in a moment like that. He can go and smooch whoever he wants because he is not in a relationship for more than a year and the guy is also lonely and broken from what happened.

[emarasmoak]

21 hours ago, rtalive said:

You do realize, that when you are an ex boyfriend, there is no place for you next to your ex girlfriend in a moment like that. He can go and smooch whoever he wants because he is not in a relationship for more than a year and the guy is also lonely and broken from what happened.

I would comment a couple of things:

Felicity broke up with Oliver in the Episode "Code of Silence" (4 x 14), broadcasted 17 Feb 2016. The smooch scene happened in the episode "What we leave behind" (5 x 09), broadcasted 7 Dec 2016. This means that he has not been in a relationship for less than a year. I agree that once the relationship is broken he can bang whoever he wants but I as a viewer can also also think that sometimes banging someone else doesn't make a person look good, specially when this was the fiancée that he was supposed to love and was his always until he lied to her about something very important affecting her (e.g. being a stepmother) while he was planning having a married life with her (so it was his fault that the relationship ended and he hurt her during the process). Nice guy to be loved by.

I cannot see that the guy is lonely. Everyone in Team Arrow made sure to tell him that they were there for him after he told them that he had killed Billy. Only Thea hugged Felicity (and this was barely shown in the scene). Any of them would be there for him if needed. He could also want to go to his "girlfriend", sure. He would not be able to speak with her about the real problem but I'm sure that Susan could provide something different from his other friends (e.g. sex).

He is leaving her alone to cry, as in no one else in the same room with her, and no one else giving her comfort, as proved in the scene later where Felicity is crying alone.

Also you may want to comfort ex-girlfriends who are supposedly your friends and partners. He sure was there for Sara (and sometimes Laurel) in the past. I agree that the day to be there for his friend is maybe not the day that he killed his friend's boyfriend, but not having once asked about your friends' wellbeing during the entire season after several events that were traumatic for her doesn't speak good about his qualities as a friend. He could also have ensured that someone else (Thea? Digg?) would be with her in this painful moment. If he cared about his friend and partner at all. Or as a decent human being in general when you are saying that you are sorry that you caused pain to someone else.

If I hadn't seen previous seasons, I wouldn't like Oliver at all, because in season 5 he is a horrible friend, relative and person, a failure as a major and a crap hero. I don't like him very much as of now. And I am giving the sideye to everyone else in Team Arrow (including Digg) who hasn't shown to be caring about Felicity at all or didn't think that maybe she would need some comfort at that moment.

Edited January 12, 2017 by emarasmoak
grammar and trying to explain things better

[ladylaw99]

I don't think it would have been appropriate for Oliver to go and comfort Felicity but it would have been nice to see him ask someone to check on her.  When Moira was killed, both Diggle and Felicity went to check on him because they knew he would be devastated and would be blaming himself.  That is what you do when you care for someone. I have unfortunately lost a few important people in myself and thou I told people I wanted to be alone my friends (thank goodness) didn't listen to me and was by my side. It just bothers me that no one thought to check on her and it would have been a quick scene.

Oliver was broken but it wasn't about him, this was about Felicity and he should have been with Diggle or Thea if he needed guidance or support, you know, the people who actually care for you.  Now if you only wanted to get jiggie with it then the reporter makes sense.  Unfortunately that is what the scene for me applied until everyone from SA to a EP telling me that they did not sleep together.  I didn't feel bad for Oliver at all, it had the opposite affect on me - I thought Oliver is selfish, what else is new.

[Midnight Lullaby]

14 minutes ago, rtalive said:

Ok, he is really bad person, treats people really bad, hope she never forgives him, and he gets into being a playboy again ;) ;) ;)

Anyway I am not going to defend Oliver, but how exactly is he leaving her alone to cry, she is alone, because her boyfriend is the dead Billy, not Oliver. 

You do realize, that when you are an ex boyfriend, there is no place for you next to your ex girlfriend in a moment like that. He can go and smooch whoever he wants because he is not in a relationship for more than a year and the guy is also lonely and broken from what happened.

It's possible to care and worry about someone even if you aren't dating him/her. Usually when you hurt a friend or someone you care about you check on them. Oliver is free to smooch whoever he wants, who cares, but he caused pain to someone who stood by him for years and he supposedly cares about and he couldn't even check on her. That's selfish behavior. If he felt he wasn't the right person, even if she assured him right away she didn't blame him, he could have asked Thea to check on her but he simply cared only about his pain.

[ComicFan777]

Oliver can kiss whoever he wants, but I take issue with the timing - I don't understand how Oliver was able to make-out with Susan right after killing a good guy - not only that, but a guy that was important to someone he cares about. 

When Roy accidentally killed a cop because of mirakuru, he checked up on the cop family from afar.  If Roy can do this for a stranger, I would expect some show of this degree of concern/remorse from Oliver, since Felicity is actually his friend.

Edited January 11, 2017 by ComicFan777

[rtalive]

I think he cares for Felicity, just because he is not there with her does not mean, he does not care for her. Besides he feels guilty for the kill, he pulled the trigger. He has to be the last person she wants to see right now. I don't know if you guys can imagine the situation, but it would look so bad if he was there with her. And after all, the man has to live his own life and move on. He puts everybody before him all the time, maybe there are little moments, where he does thinks for himself and he seeks a different friend than the team. He sees Susan as a friend, so it is not so bad he goes to her. He is a human being after all, most people move on sooner than him, Felicity for example.

[dtissagirl]

Imo it's more than timing. It's the dumbness. Oliver has just MURDERED SOMEONE, and his instinct is to go ~open his heart~ [and mayhaps his pants] to a freaking journalist? What? Dude. You just assassinated someone. Do not go talk to a journo right after, you know?

[rtalive]

4 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

Oliver can kiss whoever he wants, but I take issue with the timing - I don't understand how Oliver was able to make-out with Susan right after killing a good guy - not only that, but a guy that was important to someone he cares about. 

When Roy accidentally killed a cop because of mirakuru, he checked up on the cop family from afar.  If Roy can do this for a stranger, I would expect some show of this degree of concern/remorse from Oliver, since Felicity is actually his friend.

I am sure we will see Oliver blaming himself and mourning for Billy in the future episodes, this is too soon to judge him.

[LeighAn]

I don't hate Oliver or Felicity or take sides. But I too think that the way they handled the Billy reveal seemed far too much focused on Olivers pain and ignored Felicitys which combined with Oliver going off to make out with Susan for cold comfort made Oliver look inconsiderate of Felicity feelings in a show where we have seen Felicity go above and beyond to always be there for Oliver. A week or so after their break up Felicity was comforting Oliver when Laurel died despite the fact that he broke her heart and by her own words put her through the worst moment in her life.

I'm wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt that it was just a pacing issue and that we will see Oliver show some genuine compassion and concern for Felicitys grief and her desire for revenge. But I'm not in denial about the fact the writers have a thing for making Oliver obtuse for plot purposes and that Flarrow writers see women characters 90% as cheer leaders for the male characters to tell them what good boys they are and make their woe is me feelings better. 

[ComicFan777]

Personally, I think it's borderline sociopathic behavior...it boils down to sexual arousal after accidental murder...it's so messed up...

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 minute ago, rtalive said:

I think he cares for Felicity, just because he is not there with her does not mean, he does not care for her. Besides he feels guilty for the kill, he pulled the trigger. He has to be the last person she wants to see right now. I don't know if you guys can imagine the situation, but it would look so bad if he was there with her. And after all, the man has to live his own life and move on. He puts everybody before him all the time, maybe there are little moments, where he does thinks for himself and he seeks a different friend than the team. He sees Susan as a friend, so it is not so bad he goes to her. He is a human being after all, most people move on sooner than him, Felicity for example.

I can imagine the situation. I can picture him asking Thea to please be there for Felicity because he doesn't know how to be there for her. And I'd be, as a viewer, like "that's very thoughtful of him, he is such a good person." Instead I look at what they showed and think "does he care about anyone but himself?"

No one questions his right to move on. He can marry Susan for all I care. But being involved with someone else doesn't mean he can't also care for his friends as well.

And @ComicFan777 is right..feeling like making out with someone after murdering a guy is just wrong. I could see that in an episode of Criminal Minds and it would be a hint it's the guy they are trying to catch.

[dtissagirl]

There's also cinematic and editing choices involved here, which were... unfortunate to say the least. When you show Felicity crying alone + Diggle getting arrested while Oliver is making out with an investigative reporter right after he killed a person, there's intent on it from the direction and editing. It doesn't even matter if they didn't ~mean to have intention. It's there because that's how cinematic language and classical editing works. What they showed was everyone's life is in the shit while the hero protagonist is getting his rocks off.