Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don't know if it's me perceiving them differently but at the time sure they were pushing Ray, but now they are pushing the idea of no Olicity and not because Felicity has an alternative, just because the characters talked during the hiatus, they moved forward and the fans should stop thinking about what happened last year. They aren't even pushing the boyfriend..WM talked about him once..but it feels like they are telling people to stop asking questions about Oliver and Felicity and focus on other stuff: action, the newbies..that's what it feels like to me.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[SonofaBiscuit]

I know it's only week 2 of Arrow, but I just find it bizarre that they saw their shitty ratings from the first two episodes, and the social media numbers are likely down, but they haven't started to walk back some of the statements they've made regarding romance on the show.  I mean, I'm not an Executive Producer, but I think my strategy might be to try to keep fans by offering them some reassuring words.  The fact that they aren't doing that makes me wonder if it's because lots of bad stuff is coming for Olicity, and they don't want to piss fans of the couple off even more by giving false hope.  I don't know. 

[RussianRoulette]

12 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I don't know if it's me perceiving them differently but at the time sure they were pushing Ray, but now they are pushing the idea of no Olicity and not because Felicity has an alternative, just because the characters talked during the hiatus, they moved forward and the fans should stop thinking about what happened last year. They aren't even pushing the boyfriend..WM talked about him once..but it feels like they are telling people to stop asking questions about Oliver and Felicity and focus on other stuff: action, the newbies..that's what it feels like to me.

Exactly. They continuously do not understand the point of "show don't tell" (summer of lust, summer post break-up, etc), which I definitely think creates lots of frustration. 

[quarks]

1 hour ago, looptab said:

I don't know whether this is my faulty memory starting to pull jokes on me, but I think these interviews aren't that different from the ones they gave in S3. With the whole Ray stuff. When they wanted us to believe that Felicity had the perfect guy and she and Oliver were never ever ever happening.

Yep. With the distinct difference that I'm not getting the sense that Mayo Cop is destined for a spinoff.

[calliope1975]

1 hour ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think he tries..but if you don't have chemistry you don't..*cough* Poppy *cough*

Sometimes, I don't think he tries. Half the time, he looked annoyed that Poppy was there, and he always looked like he was irritated with Laurel. I don't believe he's deliberately trying to tank scenes, but I don't think he's a good enough actor to even fake scene partner enthusiasm, even without natural chemistry.

I truly believe Olicity are endgame. Full stop. But I'm not a believer that the end game is more important than the journey. I'm already skipping Mayo's scenes and will do the same if Oliver ends up dating the reporter or whatever new lady they throw his way. I've said it before, TIIC went too far with the almost marriage, and I can't walk backwards from that. I'm only punishing myself by watching, but I'm kinda curious if they'll botch this up even more before it's inevitably fixed.

[statsgirl]

I think they are writing away from "Oliver and Felicity being in a romance", not "the Olicity romance".  This episode we got Oliver opening up to Felicity more than he has to anyone else, including Diggle.   That's pure romance. Add to that her correcting him and Oliver taking it (unlike his scenes with Laurel) and Oliver not Det Mayo being the one to notice that she's having a problem, there's a whole lot of solid Olicity relationship-building going on here.

10 hours ago, DCLeague said:

If hypothetically if this is all for stall, then its to me its a foolish choice and would be doing the Olicity situation no favours.

As a trope, it never does the couple any favours but the writers keep using it anyway.

And almost inevitably, when they end up happy together, it gets forgiven by the audience.

[Chaser]

5x02 was the most Olicity episode since 4x11, maybe 4x09.

Spoiler

And to think, 5x05 is the one billed as Olicity.

[Sunshine]

MG said when he uses that term he is referring to their romantic relationship- past, present, or potential future. In their eyes nothing about 5.02 was considered romantic.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Sunshine

[Chaser]

Probably in the same way S2a Olicity wasn't considered romantic. 

[CabotCove]

Quote

As a trope, it never does the couple any favours but the writers keep using it anyway.

And almost inevitably, when they end up happy together, it gets forgiven by the audience.              

Except the part where not everyone is in it for Olicity?. Some viewers hate romance by default (not me) , so too much romantic drama just pushes them on the edge. And they would possibly just quit the show. The show is not in a position to lose anymore viewers Imo, so I hope they know what they are doing. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by DCLeague

[dtissagirl]

5 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

Except the part where not everyone is in it for Olicity?. Some viewers hate romance by default (not me) , so unnecessary romantic drama just pushes them on the edge. And would possibly just quit the show. The show is not in a position right now to lose anymore viewers Imo, so I hope they know what they are doing. 

Arrow's rating trendings shows the opposite of what you're saying -- the audience leaves when O/F are kept apart, be it a break up, or hooking up with someone else. Not counting the temporary viewers that only tune in for the crossover and then leave the next episode, Arrow's biggest exodus of fans was after O/F broke up in 415. It's not the "unnecessary" romantic drama that seems to be a problem, it's the "no romance" between the favored couple that hits the ratings the hardest.

[Midnight Lullaby]

IMO the scenes they had weren't "romantic" in the sense that the dialogue didn't hint at anything..they could have been between other characters and sound totally platonic. But the actors play them in a way that feels deeper than it is on paper. That's why I say good luck trying to replace Felicity as Oliver's big love without getting rid of Felicity from the show..I remember in season 2 when Oliver was with Sara and had a scene with Felicity when she told him to go get Thea and he listened immediately..it felt intense because the actors played it like that even if the lines could have been given to Diggle for example..until Felicity is there there will always be the comparison.

[wonderwall]

Sorry to barge in... I just caught up with the thread.

WHO'S READY TO EAT SOME HATS?! 

I'm hurt that no one really brought this up btw

[Chaser]

And deny you the pleasure, O' Keeper of Hats?

[Angel12d]

I don't think Olicity is over for good but I do think they're on hold, likely this season. That's been my worst case scenario feeling since we heard about the boyfriend. I WILL GLADLY EAT SOME HATS IF I'M WRONG, OKAY?!

Spoiler

And if Tina does arrive (Hi, I'm Dinah...Dinah Drake), then I feel like they will maybe test out Oliver with Canary No.3, though it remains to be seen whether they can find someone with better chemistry with SA than EBR.

The trouble is, they've kind of shot themselves in the foot with this. First, because whether they're together or not, all O/F scenes are Olicity scenes. They just are. They have a lot of chemistry, they're natural and easy together. He opens up to her. 501/502 might have been reminiscent of s2 Olicity but it's still them. It's still showing their relationship. Unless they keep them completely separate, that will never go away. 

Plus, I feel like they pretty successfully changed the love interest from Laurel to Felicity, probably because SA and KC had no chemistry and their 'love' story was badly written from the start. Even their backstory was against them. But I'm not sure they'll be able to do it again. You can get away with changing it at the start of s2 but not in s5. Then it just becomes disingenuous. 

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

And deny you the pleasure, O' Keeper of Hats?

I'm currently making a list of who's gonna eat their hats:

[lemotomato]

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Plus, I feel like they pretty successfully changed the love interest from Laurel to Felicity, probably because SA and KC had no chemistry and their 'love' story was badly written from the start. Even their backstory was against them. But I'm not sure they'll be able to do it again. You can get away with changing it at the start of s2 but not in s5. Then it just becomes disingenuous. 

I agree. Just off the top of my head I can't think of a show (besides Shondra Rhimes' shows) that has switched endgame/main love interests more than once. 

[Thundercatmary]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I'm currently making a list of who's gonna eat their hats:

Are you checking it twice? :p

[wonderwall]

27 minutes ago, Thundercatmary said:

Are you checking it twice? :p

Are you saying that I'd make a mistake??? -_- 

:p

Edited October 14, 2016 by wonderwall

[Thundercatmary]

7 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Are you saying that I'd make a mistake??? -_- 

:p

Just want to make sure you accurately record who's naughty and nice lol

[looptab]

14 hours ago, Sunshine said:

MG said when he uses that term he is referring to their romantic relationship- past, present, or potential future. In their eyes nothing about 5.02 was considered romantic.

So, that's where some 'journos'' idea of it comes from. Makes sense.

[emarasmoak]

You can add my name to the list of potencial hat-eaters. I am convinced that Olicity is still endgame, that they are stalling it for at least the whole season, and that they are 

Spoiler

going to hook-up Oliver with the reporter and cast Tina/ Dinah Drake as a new BC (unnecessary as the real bad-ass Canary is Sara) and a potential LI (this will generate backlash).

Nothing of all this will work because no one will have the same chemistry with SA as the one existing between SA/EBR. If they interact = we get Olicity moments, they just can't help it. And I also agree that the show is writing them as exes that will be back as they are improving their relationship just now (specially OQ willing to change and prove himself as trustworthy). It is clear to me that they are working towards a slow burn Olicity. Each of them is THE ONE for the other. It just is, and watching them is my main reason for watching the show (not live any more).

This endgame would change only if EBR decides to leave the show. This would be a signal for me to stop watching as my other favourite 2 relationships are OTA first and Digg/ Oliver second (I just don't want Arrow without Felicity, Olicity and OTA).

My main reasons for watching this show are character and relationships driven. Action can be fun and stunts are better this season, but it is not enough (e.g. Batman vs. Superman) and there are many other movies and TV shows that I can watch for the action. I love the Avengers movies because they have developed and great characters, I care about them, action is awesome and they are fun and funny. Right now, depending of the day and the last spoilers, I am mostly meh but can be sometimes annoyed or mildly interesed in Arrow. I don't watch live any more.

What makes Arrow especial and what made me be obsessed about It was Olicity, Felicity, Oliver, OTA and Digg, in this order. I love Lyla/ Dyla, I very much like Quentin, but only mildy like Thea and Curtis.

Spoiler

(I don't like the idea of Mr Terrific).

About the 2456385 new characters this season, the only ones that are mildly interesting to me are the DA, Prometheus and Ragman. Everyone else is boring or annoying and I don't want them in Arrow. I don't care about other shows and the crossover. I just hated the last crossover as the Hawk people was boring and the BMD was infuriating.

I am extremely annoyed that they dared to swap a girl (love you, baby Sara) for a boy. It is just wrong and infuriates me as a woman. TPTB are convincing me that they think that women are 2nd rate people.

I would enjoy getting a storyline with Moira, Noah or Deadhot, or 1-2 episodes with Esrin Fortuna, Malcom, Sara, Barry, Supergirl, Slade, Constantine, Vixen, Donna, Tatsu or Nyssa  I don't want to watch even a cameo from LL or Black Siren and I don't want to anyone to wonder again WWLD as this character was annoying and unnecessary when she was alive. I don't want to hear again anything from the LOA, Samantha or William.

I have hated all the promotion for this season and stopped watching live so I won't watch again something that I will hate (e.g. after watching unprepared the BMD I was very angry and only continued watching because I was convinced that LL was in the grave and hoped that Olicity would be together at the end of the season).

Incidentally, all the real life people that I know have stopped watching Arrow, and this happened because they were stalling Olicity either with Ray or the BMD. 

And most of the Olicity fandom people that I know from social media are not watching live, and are quite annoyed and unwilling to promote the show, because no one cares about this new show with a million new boring people.

Edited October 23, 2016 by emarasmoak
Speling

[bijoux]

I actually don't mind the new people. I'm not crazy about all of them, but it's not like they're eating up the show. The new team really does come back to Oliver and, to somewhat lesser extent, Felicity. And were it promoted as such, i.e. Oliver is learning how to function in not one, but two new roles this year, as the mayor and building a new untrained team from the bottom up, I feel it would have gotten more response. It also promotes characters and character relationships. We're in the early stages yet, but I feel like they're actually doing a solid job of it on the show. I am acutally really looking forward to having Dig back on the team, not just because it's his rightful place, but having him react to the newbies and them possibly realizing that they'd actually had it easy with Oliver. It's not even necessary for Dig to break them, I'd love to have him and Oliver having an all out sparring session, with the newbs staring on and commenting that they're lucky Oliver hadn't pulled those moves on them. Well, I didn't want to actually break you.

As for Oliver and Felicity, nothing on screen makes me believe they're in any way near over.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I don't hate any of the boobs, but I don't love any of them either. So far they're just... there, and they only have the bare minimum superficial characteristics -- angry dude, teen girl, zen guy, nerdy dude -- but there's room for improvement, fingers crossed that happens at some point.

But I do like what the boobs say about the characters I care about. I find it a bit frustrating that they set up Oliver's episode arc the same every time -- he does something wrong/it gets worse/someone gives him a pep talk/he does something right -- but I'm resigned this will never change, so whatever. It's funny to watch smoke come out of his ears for the first third of every episode. I worry he's not eating enough yogurt to help with the constipation.

But I'm a lot more interested in what the boobs tell me about Felicity, and about where Oliver/Felicity stands right now. Because 1. Felicity is as much responsible for the boobs as Oliver. 2. She is totally training them as much as Oliver. 3. More importantly to me: Felicity is hilariously training OLIVER to be a true leader with her pep talks. I'm really enjoying that.

Edited October 22, 2016 by dtissagirl

[looptab]

7 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

 I find it a bit frustrating that they set up Oliver's episode arc the same every time -- he does something wrong/it gets worse/someone gives him a pep talk/he does something right -- but I'm resigned this will never change, so whatever.

At least they change up the pep talks and it's not "Shoot, Oliver,[dramatic pause] shoot"every.damn.episode. :)

Edited October 22, 2016 by looptab

[quarks]

16 minutes ago, looptab said:

At least they change up the pep talks and it's not "Shoot, Oliver,[dramatic pause] shoot"every.damn.episode. :)

I am still waiting for the episode where the advice is "Sit, Barry [dramatic pause], sit."

Not very hopefully.

[Morrigan2575]

47 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Yeah, I don't hate any of the boobs, but I don't love any of them either. So far they're just... there, and they only have the bare minimum superficial characteristics -- angry dude, teen girl, zen guy, nerdy dude -- but there's room for improvement, fingers crossed that happens at some point.

But I do like what the boobs say about the characters I care about. I find it a bit frustrating that they set up Oliver's episode arc the same every time -- he does something wrong/it gets worse/someone gives him a pep talk/he does something right -- but I'm resigned this will never change, so whatever. It's funny to watch smoke come out of his ears for the first third of every episode. I worry he's not eating enough yogurt to help with the constipation.

But I'm a lot more interested in what the boobs tell me about Felicity, and about where Oliver/Felicity stands right now. Because 1. Felicity is as much responsible for the boobs as Oliver. 2. She is totally training them as much as Oliver. 3. More importantly to me: Felicity is hilariously training OLIVER to be a true leader with her pep talks. I'm really enjoying that.

That is actually hysterical because she really is molding/teaching him how to be a good leader. I'd kill for them to go the "old" X-Men way and have Oliver = Wolverine and put Felicity in the Cyclops/Storm role. Basically have Oliver in the lone wolf/solo/lethal weapon role and admit that's all he is and wants to be. Whereas Felicity has the leadership skills and strategic thinking.

Angel did something similar in S2/S3 when they had Angel admit he wasn't a good leader and put Wesley in charge.

I doubt they'd ever go there for Flash or Arrow because they're the Big Damn Heroes but, they should, IMO.

[SmallScreenDiva]

LOL, a few weeks ago I said I thought Felicity was the true leader of the team and got jumped on. "Oh no, Felicity can't be the leader. Oliver HAS to be." Why? Because he has a penis? *rme* 

[Morrigan2575]

I don't recall that happening here. But if it did, I know it wasn't me because I'm a Felicity fan first, Oliver is maybe #5 on my list of things I like about Arrow.

[looptab]

33 minutes ago, quarks said:

I am still waiting for the episode where the advice is "Sit, Barry [dramatic pause], sit."

Not very hopefully.

Don't tell anyone, but as much as it annoys me that the solution to every episode is "Run, Barry, run" - and that he needs to be told so - I quite enjoy Cavanagh in any way shape or form saying that line.

[TrueMyth]

6 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

LOL, a few weeks ago I said I thought Felicity was the true leader of the team and got jumped on. "Oh no, Felicity can't be the leader. Oliver HAS to be." Why? Because he has a penis? *rme* 

But if we follow Oliver's penis, I think we will end up back at Felicity.

[Tazmania]

10 hours ago, TrueMyth said:

But if we follow Oliver's penis, I think we will end up back at Felicity.

I wouldn't be too sure. That penis has spent too much time with multiple members of Lance family and yes, I include Quentin in that list too. 

[Trini]

17 hours ago, quarks said:

I am still waiting for the episode where the advice is "Sit, Barry [dramatic pause], sit."

Not very hopefully.

Episode 2.21, 'The Runaway Dinosaur'.  :)

[Thundercatmary]

I really miss 4A Oliver and Felicity, someone was posting vids of them on twitter and now I'm going to have to go read some fic or something. lol 

[rtalive]

Well I got the feeling that Olicity is not going to be an end game. But I also think, there won't be an end game for Oliver Queen. He is a fighter, loner and leader of others. Unfortunately there is no place for domestic life and happiness for this type of person. Felicity was the escape from reality type of girl, the little paradise he wanted to steal for himself, but forgot that she is also not perfect and may be wants different type man beside her.

When I think about it, the reason why he never managed to redeem himself in front of Laurel and work it out with her was the same - he chose a life that does not include normal life. 

That is why I always found it more interesting and compelling when he is with a woman more close to his state of mind, someone also a little damaged and dark,  someone who chose the same life and path on her own but her path crossed his. 

[Sunshine]

The problem is they set THIS Oliver up to want a life outside the mask.  This Oliver might want some of those things more than Felicity does. I don't know if they are endgame or not. Felicity has been set up to be slightly dark and damaged via Havenrock. 

[Angel12d]

I don't know about endgame or not but I disagree with the idea that Felicity was Oliver's escape from reality girl. From the moment they met, Felicity saw right through him - saw the man he really was - and she accepted him. She stood by him, even at his lowest moments, and helped him become a hero. She's chosen the same life as him, too. She might not put on a mask and a leather suit but she's there by his side, night after night, on the same path, fighting the same fight.

Not to mention the fact that Oliver has evolved beyond the man we saw in s1. He doesn't want to die alone. He wants to be with Felicity. He wants a life outside the mask. And Felicity wants all those things too. It's just about the writers allowing them to have it now. 

[dtissagirl]

Felicity didn't even want to escape from the reality, that was Oliver.

And there's no character that's a female version of Oliver on the show for him to have/want a relationship with, so I don't even know how that is a thing.

Edited October 26, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Thundercatmary]

2 hours ago, rtalive said:

That is why I always found it more interesting and compelling when he is with a woman more close to his state of mind, someone also a little damaged and dark,  someone who chose the same life and path on her own but her path crossed his

I think Felicity has a darkness to her for sure, going as far back as when she thought Cooper died. Felicity masks her darkness etc with humor, remember Oliver's comment that Felicity doesn't have to be funny for him? It's because Oliver knows her humor is a defense mechanism, like many people, and that she could let that go with him if she neeeded/wanted to. 

[rtalive]

6 minutes ago, Thundercatmary said:

I think Felicity has a darkness to her for sure, going as far back as when she thought Cooper died. Felicity masks her darkness etc with humor, remember Oliver's comment that Felicity doesn't have to be funny for him? It's because Oliver knows her humor is a defense mechanism, like many people, and that she could let that go with him if she neeeded/wanted to. 

Ok, may be you've got a point. If they develop her more we can see her darkness. But her arch with the wheelchair was pretty light. I expected something completely different.

And I got the message from season 4 that she is supposed to be this light that will make Oliver better man and change him.

And they are still trying to portray her as a voice of reason or something, continuing with the moral speeches and prop ups. Which to be honest is kind of unnecessary, first because he came a long way to need pep talks all the time, and second it is one sided. May be they will give her a moment where she will open up to him and share more of her dark thoughts and show she is human too, which for now she does with Curtis. So I guess the character feels more comfortable sharing with Curtis.

And they reverted him back to being more darker, so the whole light hero failed. Which in a way for me means, he tried it and it didn't work out for him - both, being light hero and being with Felicity.

The thing is though it is not interesting when he is always brooding and she is always making jokes. I hope both characters move on, because they are great characters when developed separately and as just partners. Give her some nice guy as a boyfriend, at least I hope the police guy will be a nice guy and him some bad ass girl. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I object to the fact that a woman is a badass only if she doesn't joke and a is a fighter. It's a reductive view of a very complex reality. 

[apinknightmare]

Quote

Give her some nice guy as a boyfriend, at least I hope the police guy will be a nice guy and him some bad ass girl. 

ETA: @Midnight Lullaby wrote it better 

Edited October 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[rtalive]

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

I don't know about endgame or not but I disagree with the idea that Felicity was Oliver's escape from reality girl. From the moment they met, Felicity saw right through him - saw the man he really was - and she accepted him. She stood by him, even at his lowest moments, and helped him become a hero. She's chosen the same life as him, too. She might not put on a mask and a leather suit but she's there by his side, night after night, on the same path, fighting the same fight.

Not to mention the fact that Oliver has evolved beyond the man we saw in s1. He doesn't want to die alone. He wants to be with Felicity. He wants a life outside the mask. And Felicity wants all those things too. It's just about the writers allowing them to have it now. 

I agree with you, she was very loyal good partner, never meant something different. But so was Diggle, he was there by his side too.

And about the escape girl I was talking about how Oliver imagines his life with her, when they left Star city, it was an escape, wasn't it. He liked the fact that she is a normal girl with no mask, I agree, and he wanted this normal life. I remember he was the one who was unwilling to go back to the team. 

In the end, as I remember, she left him, because he failed being that man she wanted him to be.

[rtalive]

5 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I object to the fact that a woman is a badass only if she doesn't joke and a is a fighter. It's a reductive view of a very complex reality. 

Never said that. Felicity is a bad ass.  And I never said he should be with someone with a mask. To be honest I am tired of all the masks popping up in the show.

I prefer him alone, he hardly works with any woman, he is too intense and too complicated.

I just want it to be simple, not so complicated. Diggle told Oliver in season 1, that he should find someone he doesn't have to apologize to or chance. That's how I imagine it. A woman that likes him for who he is, no more drama, no more proving to be worthy.

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, rtalive said:

And I got the message from season 4 that she is supposed to be this light that will make Oliver better man and change him.

Idk, the message I got from s4 was that they both have to work together to really make their relationship work or make their own lives better. All of Felicity's "light" means nothing if Oliver isn't willing to put in the full effort to be the better person/equal partner, and all of Oliver's willingness to talk or apologize means nothing if Felicity isn't willing to share with him again. Both require each of them to push themselves into uncomfortable, yet more developed and better, versions of themselves. Of course, Oliver has more of a ways to go because he's the main character and the heavier development has to be with him, but I think it's slightly more than just a light/dark thing with him and his romantic relationships.     

[RussianRoulette]

6 minutes ago, rtalive said:

In the end, as I remember, she left him, because he failed being that man she wanted him to be.

He failed to be the (life) partner that she wanted him to be.

[looptab]

10 minutes ago, rtalive said:

In the end, as I remember, she left him, because he failed being that man she wanted him to be.

I don't know any woman who wants her man to be a fucking liar and not share his life with her, so I guess, in a way, you're right. But let's not spin this as if Felicity wanted Oliver to become a human Little Pony, because that was never in the show.

Edited October 26, 2016 by looptab

[ComicFan777]

I think Oliver would have failed in any serious relationship because he cannot be fully honest and include his partner - it is not just Felicity, it would be with anyone who wants a serious relationship that's more than sex.

For me, I find it more interesting when tv couples are sort of opposites because they offer two different perspectives/approaches to everything.  It's cool to see how a couple eventually finds the balance to make it work and grow into better people because they complement each other.  When two people are so much the same, they are less likely to evolve throughout the story.  

It's like whenever I fight with my husband because we can be so different, he always says that our lives would be pretty boring if we agreed on everything all the time.

[Angel12d]

The whole point of Felicity opening up to Curtis right now is because he's the only one who has noticed there's something wrong with her and she doesn't feel like she can open up to Oliver after he lied to her in s4. It makes sense for where they are in their relationship at this point in time. 

And for me, Oliver being darker is partly dumb retcon and partly because he's depressed, which makes sense because not only did his friend die in s4 but he lost the woman he loves with his dumb lie about his kid. 

10 minutes ago, rtalive said:

I agree with you, she was very loyal good partner, never meant something different. But so was Diggle, he was there by his side too.

And about the escape girl I was talking about how Oliver imagines his life with her, when they left Star city, it was an escape, wasn't it. He liked the fact that she is a normal girl with no mask, I agree, and he wanted this normal life. I remember he was the one who was unwilling to go back to the team. 

In the end, as I remember, she left him, because he failed being that man she wanted him to be.

The difference is Oliver fell in love with Felicity. He didn't fall in love with Diggle. 

Also, Oliver was the one who wanted to escape. He wanted a break from the hell he'd been through and he wanted to be with the woman he loved at the same time. I don't think it had anything to do with her being 'normal' or not wearing a mask. I think Felicity being on the team proves that she's not normal either? I get the impression you think Felicity is somehow separate from what Oliver does which I find strange. They do the same thing because they're both on the same team.

And Felicity left him because they were about to be married and he lied to her about having a child. I think wanting trust in a relationship is a very acceptable reason to walk away. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Angel12d

[SmallScreenDiva]

16 minutes ago, rtalive said:

I agree with you, she was very loyal good partner, never meant something different. But so was Diggle, he was there by his side too.

And about the escape girl I was talking about how Oliver imagines his life with her, when they left Star city, it was an escape, wasn't it. He liked the fact that she is a normal girl with no mask, I agree, and he wanted this normal life. I remember he was the one who was unwilling to go back to the team. 

In the end, as I remember, she left him, because he failed being that man she wanted him to be.

At no point in the show was it shown or said that Oliver liked the fact Felicity was a "normal" girl with no mask. I would hazard a guess that Felicity being nowhere near normal is the appeal for Oliver. And even without the mask, Felicity is fully immersed in Oliver's world.

10 minutes ago, rtalive said:

Never said that. Felicity is a bad ass.  And I never said he should be with someone with a mask. To be honest I am tired of all the masks popping up in the show.

I prefer him alone, he hardly works with any woman, he is too intense and too complicated.

I just want it to be simple, not so complicated. Diggle told Oliver in season 1, that he should find someone he doesn't have to apologize to or chance. That's how I imagine it. A woman that likes him for who he is, no more drama, no more proving to be worthy.

As for him hardly working with any woman, he's been working closely with Felicity for 5 years now, even admitting he couldn't do what's he's doing without her. Or did you mean side by side with another mask?

He found the woman he didn't have to apologize to in Felicity. She knows who he is and he didn't have to wear a mask with her. So I don't think I'm getting what you meant. Unless you're saying he should apologize at all, even when he's being an absolute jackass like with the baby mama lie.

Edited October 26, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva