Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[catrox14]

I'm telling y'all. I called Laurel stealing Sara's life to get back with Oliver long ago. IMO if she had stayed on the show, she would have gone after Felicity next. 

[dtissagirl]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm telling y'all. I called Laurel stealing Sara's life to get back with Oliver long ago. IMO if she had stayed on the show, she would have gone after Felicity next. 

If we assume Laurel had no idea what was going on with O/F between Slade kidnapping her and Sara dying -- which, considering no one ever told Laurel anything back then, and Laurel didn't really know Felicity AT ALL, and probably had no idea how completely in love with her Oliver was, it's not that much of a stretch -- it kinda makes sense. The last person Laurel knew for sure Oliver was into was Sara. When Sara died, opportunity stroke!

It also kinda makes it ~*symbolic*~ that just like Slade took the wrong woman, Laurel single white femaled the wrong woman.

[Mellowyellow]

I always wonder how much of the Oliver/Felicity shenanigans did Laurel know about in season 3 or did she have no idea until Felicity cried to her after the tragic goodbye in Nanda Parbat.  

One thing the writers did do well in my opinion was make the O/F relationship completely free of Laurel. There was no love triangle, Felicity never worried/thought about her (like she tends to in fanfic). They just had their own dramatic season 3 love story that was Laurel free! Considering these writers I was pleasantly surprised they wrote it that way!

[lemotomato]

31 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

One thing the writers did do well in my opinion was make the O/F relationship completely free of Laurel.. There was no love triangle

Except for the one in KC's headcanon mid-season 3! This interview will never not be lol-worthy, considering the only interaction O/L were having at the time was Oliver trying to kick LL out of the Lair/off his team.

Quote

I think people go through different things in life, different phases, and timing is everything and right now romantically Laurel is not thinking romantically, I don’t think. She is focused on something else and Oliver and Felicity have a connection but, at the end of the day, I do think that they [Laurel and Oliver] are soulmates. I always will think that even if Oliver is involved with Felicity or not. Needless to say, just because it’s your soulmate, that doesn’t mean you end up with them. Sometimes soulmates just remain best friends. It’s funny because obviously I am on the show and read the scripts, but I’ll also watch the episodes and yesterday (I don’t know if you saw it) but I hashtagged on my Twitter “#Olicity” because everybody loves the Oliver/Felicity/Laurel triangle that is going on.

Edited June 10, 2016 by lemotomato

[Thundercatmary]

lol that interview 

[Starfish35]

Yeah she was always living in her own reality. *shakes head*

[Mellowyellow]

Huh???? Serious???????

I wonder if the actors watch the entire season as a whole.  Did she miss the wonderful tragic tragic Olicity shenanigans that had NOTHING to do with Laurel????

[wonderwall]

... I don't know her and I usually refrain from saying things like this, but with everything we've seen and heard from KC from faking a bicep tear to saying there's a love triangle to saying that loliver are soul mates in front of ebr to the really distasteful joke she made at Dallas con... I really do think KC isn't bright at all. And that's me putting it lightly. She doesn't have any sense of awareness nor does she think before she speaks... And to me that gets frustrating. 

[TimetravellingBW]

59 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I always wonder how much of the Oliver/Felicity shenanigans did Laurel know about in season 3 or did she have no idea until Felicity cried to her after the tragic goodbye in Nanda Parbat.  

 

1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

If we assume Laurel had no idea what was going on with O/F between Slade kidnapping her and Sara dying -- which, considering no one ever told Laurel anything back then, and Laurel didn't really know Felicity AT ALL, and probably had no idea how completely in love with her Oliver was, it's not that much of a stretch -- it kinda makes sense. The last person Laurel knew for sure Oliver was into was Sara. When Sara died, opportunity stroke!

It also kinda makes it ~*symbolic*~ that just like Slade took the wrong woman, Laurel single white femaled the wrong woman.

Yes, Laurel probably didn't have any idea of Oliver and Felicity developing feelings. In Season 2, she was spiraling in her own issues and barely knew Felicity existed. All we have to go are her comments at Verdant which imply she thought Felicity was only Oliver's eye candy and maybe she wondered if Felicity was crushing on him. (Reflecting what Isabel suggested a lot of the QC staff thought). But she was mostly focused on Sara stealing Oliver. Who knows what she thought about the Slade reveal:  That should have tipped her off that about Oliver's true feelings, but being Laurel she probably assumed he threw Felicity into danger to save her. (Especially after she straight out said that Oliver didn't care about keeping Diggle and Felicity safe).

Between Season 2 and 3 during Olicity's flirty flirty stage, she didn't bond with the team. (Only inviting Oliver to Quentin's announcement he was calling off the vigilante force and Felicity's comment that they weren't friends). Her S2 introduction to the lair make it seem like she only saw Diggle and Felicity as Oliver's staff anyway.

In Season 3 Oliver did everything he could to shut her out of Team Arrow and his life, and wasn't exactly going to be confiding his innermost feelings to her. If she picked up anything, it was that Oliver "rejected" Felicity, and Felicity was upset about it. (Which is even more hilarious as everyone and their mother - from Diggle and Roy, to Moira and Sara, and Ra's al ghul  picked up on Oliver and Felicity's true feelings).

So chances are she had no idea how far gone Oliver was for Felicity, until just after she was all suited up, rocking the mask and new-and-improved name, ready for Oliver to fall into her arms...Just in time for Oliver and Felicity to sex it up in Nana Parbat and then head into the sunset together. Laurel must have been steaming that she spent all that time buckling up leather and taking boxing lessons, when she should have been investing in heels and computer practice. 

Edit: Also with all the KC interviews, it definitely feels like that impacted how Laurel thought of the other characters. KC was so oblivious to the Oliver/Felicity direction (as all her comments show) and sure that she was the most important person in Oliver's life, that that seeps into Laurel's pov.

I also read a great fic set after S2 exploring this exact topic: Laurel thinking she still has a chance with Oliver and thinking Felicity is just his secretary. But I'll post it on the Clock Tower thread.

Edited June 10, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[Password]

I nearly died of laughter after witnessing this triangle. 

[TimetravellingBW]

That love triangle interview will always be most hilarious of KC's views on the show. At least her "Laurel views Oliver as the love of her life" spiel only impacted Laurel and her perspective. But love triangle? When exactly did Oliver view Laurel as a romantic option in S3? When he told her to stay out of Team Arrow? As he remembering kissing Felicity in his final moments on earth? During his yelling at Laurel for being an addict? Or when he responded to Felicity getting together with Ray by....staying celibate for an entire season and planning to die alone? I mean Laurel clearly did a terrible job trying to win Oliver back, especially as her sister dying seemed to be the only reason Oliver let Laurel in the lair. (Also wasn't S3 when KC was pushing "yay girl power" and "Laurel don't need no man!" ?)

44 minutes ago, Password said:

I nearly died of laughter after witnessing this triangle. 

If that's a triangle I clearly need to brush up on my elementary school geometry. 

[tv echo]

Here's another scene where I'm now viewing Laurel's comments and reactions in a different light because of her deathbed love confession to Oliver:

Edited June 10, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

Considering 5 minutes earlier Thea thought O/F had gotten engaged... lol.

I think I love this version of Laurel. Death did her good.

[looptab]

LOL I love the still the video shows before pressing play. Everyone in the elevator is super chill and mildly curious, and she's there with her trademark crossed arms and an impressive scowl. It's hilarious.

Edited June 10, 2016 by looptab

[AyChihuahua]

"Why so angry, Laurel?"

"BITCH STOLE MY MAN!"

[kismet]

In the end it's almost like you could see the gears start to shift in her brain.... a slow but gradual how am I going to SWF her and lock her in chains in my basement too. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

My favorite part of that video is Oliver tugging Felicity's arm as he leads the way to the new lair. They were very boyfriend/girlfriend in that scene, especially with Felicity's "humor him, please" facial expressions while Oliver was telling them about his plans. 

[Starfish35]

I guess that whole thing about KC's conversation with MG explains why they never bothered to try to bring in another love interest for her.  Why bother if the actress isn't going to try to make it work?

[kismet]

@Starfish35 Ironically I just thought the same exact thing when I was explaining why a CD/KC copanel is going to be awkward. She literally shot herself in the foot by refusing to go with the flow. Accept that the show has made changes and find a way to be part of it, otherwise the show is going to leave you behind which is exactly what happened. She became even more of an afterthought.

[ohjoy]

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

My favorite part of that video is Oliver tugging Felicity's arm as he leads the way to the new lair. They were very boyfriend/girlfriend in that scene, especially with Felicity's "humor him, please" facial expressions while Oliver was telling them about his plans. 

I love that moment too, but for a different reason: Oliver looked so confused and disappointed that his friends didn't immediately jump on board with his plan, and his expression as he turned to follow Felicity's suggestion to show them the other surprise was just adorable -- like, "Okay, I'll do it, but I hope they react better than they did about me running for mayor."

[theacostov]

I just noticed that Felicity slightly hits him with her purse and he makes like a grimace face, like that could actually hurt him. Bless them. I have to be honest, I really miss them. :(

[Password]

They're absolutely awesome as a couple. I got such feels when I rewatched some season 4 premiere scenes. 

Baby mama. Agh she ruined everything. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

The other day I saw the gif of Felicity "hitting" him in the lair and he acted like she hurt him..SIGH. They are so cute together. Who told the damn writers people love drama?

[SmallScreenDiva]

31 minutes ago, RandomMe said:

I love that moment too, but for a different reason: Oliver looked so confused and disappointed that his friends didn't immediately jump on board with his plan, and his expression as he turned to follow Felicity's suggestion to show them the other surprise was just adorable -- like, "Okay, I'll do it, but I hope they react better than they did about me running for mayor."

Yeah, I laughed over his "Oooookay." He's such a big baby.

20 minutes ago, theacostov said:

I just noticed that Felicity slightly hits him with her purse and he makes like a grimace face, like that could actually hurt him. Bless them. I have to be honest, I really miss them. :(

I always get a kick out of that, him acting like he actually gets physically hurt when Felicity hits him (more bruises from her than Deathstroke, right?). Although in this case, if Felicity's bag is loaded — and let's be honest, there are probably several gadgets in there — he honestly could have gotten a decent thunk in the chest ;) He does the "hurt" reaction too in 411 when Felicity is making her speech and he doesn't say anything right away.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Also when she hit him with the pillow in 4x08..and it was adorable even if I couldn't appreciate it at the time because I wanted her to use the pillow to suffocate him hahaha

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Also when she hit him with the pillow in 4x08..and it was adorable even if I couldn't appreciate it at the time because I wanted her to use the pillow to suffocate him hahaha

This is how I picture you typing this comment :p

[SmallScreenDiva]

10 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Also when she hit him with the pillow in 4x08..and it was adorable even if I couldn't appreciate it at the time because I wanted her to use the pillow to suffocate him hahaha

This totally cracked me up that I woke up my seatmate on the train :) I kept thinking there was another instance so thanks, apparently I blocked that entire scene in my mind.

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

This is how I picture you typing this comment :p

LOL! So accurate. One day I'll be over that mess but TODAY IS NOT THAT DAY!

[AyChihuahua]

I'll never be over it. I'm still not over Veronica getting back together with the Donut or that whole batcrap crazy baby/fundamentalist parents storyline. Hell, I'm still pissed that they wrote Spike trying to rape Buffy, and that was like 2002. I HOLD GRUDGES. 

[Mellowyellow]

I'm still pretty new to Arrow so bear with me if this has been asked before.

Do you guys know what the producers think of Olicity? Are they shippers?

[dtissagirl]

I don't think anyone involved in making the show is a 'shipper. Not in the way fandom ships anyway. They're in the business of creating AND breaking relationships, not rooting for them. They all like relationships that work [romantic or otherwise] for the narrative they set out to write, because they help the show. O/F works for them pretty well.

[Mellowyellow]

33 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I don't think anyone involved in making the show is a 'shipper. Not in the way fandom ships anyway. They're in the business of creating AND breaking relationships, not rooting for them. They all like relationships that work [romantic or otherwise] for the narrative they set out to write, because they help the show. O/F works for them pretty well.

Thanks! Reason I ask is I was curious whether you guys know if in the past they have expressed a preference.

In Harry Potter, JK Rowling was always going to write the Ron/Hermione ending, just like I reckon the How I Met Your Mother creaters/producers/whatever people were always going to for their pre destined ending (never mind the fact that most people seem to think the HIMYM ending was rubbish).

Hehe trying to gauge if my ship will stay afloat based on the odds! 

[dtissagirl]

13 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

In Harry Potter, JK Rowling was always going to write the Ron/Hermione ending, just like I reckon the How I Met Your Mother creaters/producers/whatever people were always going to for their pre destined ending (never mind the fact that most people seem to think the HIMYM ending was rubbish).

Hehe trying to gauge if my ship will stay afloat based on the odds! 

Yeah, Arrow threw its original plan out, because it was Laurel/Oliver. But they realized it wasn't working out for them pretty early in the run, and took measures to course-correct. Oliver/Felicity was the successful course-correction. [We talked about this process A LOT in this very thread, if you have the free time to browse it. :)]

I'm fairly sure that as it stands right now, O/F is the showrunners plan for endgame. But also, this is TV, and shit happens.

[Sakura12]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Thanks! Reason I ask is I was curious whether you guys know if in the past they have expressed a preference.

In Harry Potter, JK Rowling was always going to write the Ron/Hermione ending, just like I reckon the How I Met Your Mother creaters/producers/whatever people were always going to for their pre destined ending (never mind the fact that most people seem to think the HIMYM ending was rubbish).

Hehe trying to gauge if my ship will stay afloat based on the odds! 

Didn't JK Rowling just come out and say that she should've put Harry and Hermione together and thinks that Ron/Hermione would need a lot of counseling. 

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Didn't JK Rowling just come out and say that she should've put Harry and Hermione together and thinks that Ron/Hermione would need a lot of counseling. 

Yes but she said she wrote Hermione and Ron as part of a wish fulfilment! She did it anyway! Taking it back years later does not help!

 

Anyways I'm just twitchy. I started watching Arrow based on the promise that the mopey looking lead dude was engaged to the awesome chick who caught my attention. Had no idea they were going to break up until I went on the forums and then it was too late! Hehe don't mind me! I'm new to this ship so I'm fretful whereas you guys are probably chilled after sitting through 4 seasons slowly!

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Didn't JK Rowling just come out and say that she should've put Harry and Hermione together and thinks that Ron/Hermione would need a lot of counseling. 

I think she said that writing Ron/Hermione together was a personal/fan wish fulfillment at the time, because she thinks that realistically they wouldn't have worked together, kind of like how realistically Oliver and Felicity probably shouldn't be together but they're the main couple who got together/probably will get together anyway.

[quarks]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Thanks! Reason I ask is I was curious whether you guys know if in the past they have expressed a preference.

 

I think that by hooking Oliver and Felicity up and having umpteen proposals and fake weddings and drives off to the sunset, not to mention having Oliver's first romantic "I love you," be said to Felicity, the producers have already expressed a preference.

But with that said, it's television, and anything can happen until the last episode. If Arrow ends next season (possible) then I think an Oliver/Felicity endgame is likely. If Arrow lasts for ten seasons (unlikely, in my opinion, but then again, look at Supernatural), then who knows? 

[statsgirl]

From the spoiler thread, about Donna:

4 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

No that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when she called him out in the hall after he and Felicity had finished their hacking, and basically told him to get lost, that Felicity didn't need him around.  And then she came back in and when Felicity asked about it she acted like Noah left of his own accord.

It's true she did tell Noah to leave.  Maybe she though Felicity would get hurt if he stayed, maybe she's too pushy, maybe she's just drawn that way for plot purposes (and because Tom A couldn't stay). 

The thing though is that Noah is a grown-ass man and if he wanted to stay or even stay in touch with Felicity, he could have.  Just as he knew for years where Felicity was and didn't get in touch with her, he knows where she is now and if he wanted to stay, there is nothing Donna could have done to keep him out of Felicity's life.

Noah leaving is not all on Donna.  But she was wrong to act like it was all his doing.

[Starfish35]

No, it's not all on Donna.  But lying to Felicity about why he left, after just making a huge stink in the previous episode with Quentin about total and complete honesty, really rubbed me the wrong way.  

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

No, it's not all on Donna.  But lying to Felicity about why he left, after just making a huge stink in the previous episode with Quentin about total and complete honesty, really rubbed me the wrong way.  

I have to agree on that, Noah didn't have to leave although he really lind of did (escape convict and all...he did break out of prison in 418 right?). However, I really thought Donna was being Hypocritical. Not that it matters all that much, pretty sure that whole thing with Donna was to teach Felicity a lesson about how right Oliver was with the BMD

[dtissagirl]

For me the problem is less about how I feel about Donna's actions, but more that this was horrible narrative technique. Donna telling Noah to take a hike at the end, and then lying to Felicity about it is a narrative beat that belongs at the start of an arc, not the end of it.

Edited July 22, 2016 by dtissagirl

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

For me the problem is less about how I feel about Donna's actions, but more that this was horrible narrative technique. Donna telling Noah to take a hike at the end, and then lying to Felicity about it is a narrative beat that belongs at the start of an arc, not the end of it.

Additionaly, it bothers me how the show couches these things. Donna convinces Lance to do something stupid? Donna is a hypocrite? For me, those are not reasons to be burnt at the stake. They're flaws and human. I would just like the writers to not present them as 100% right and go into WHY Donna is a hypocrite for three seconds.

[kismet]

I actually think all the relationships on the show could benefit from less black/white, right/wrong, binary treatments. All of the characters' are human, which means the majority of their interactions and responses on a spectrum. There are very few decisions or interactions in life or relationships that can be characterized in a binary way. There are shades of the ends in most interactions. So when the show picks and chooses to make some binary and others not it can be very jarring. It is also problematic when the behavior or interaction is simply for plot purposes. It sacrifices the character for the plot, and becomes more obvious because the character responds in such an extreme way. There are better ways to make your plot points, than puppeteering your characters.

[dtissagirl]

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

Additionaly, it bothers me how the show couches these things. Donna convinces Lance to do something stupid? Donna is a hypocrite? For me, those are not reasons to be burnt at the stake. They're flaws and human. I would just like the writers to not present them as 100% right and go into WHY Donna is a hypocrite for three seconds.

I don't think the writing cares about it, which is a larger problem, but they've been consistent with their lack of character consistency from the start. Prime example: Laurel. But they do it to everyone. Emotional beats are almost always used to advance the plot rather than to provide character development. It's okay to have Donna be inconsistent because it gets Lance's story to move, then it gets Noah to scram and finish his arc. Plot was plotted. It's Thea hating lies for 3.5 seasons until she needed to tell Oliver lying about the demon spawn was totally a great thing because plot needed Oliver to keep his mouth shut for another episode, so there went Thea's characterization into the garbage fire. The writing doesn't care if character is sacrificed for plot.

[bijoux]

I know. It's symptomatic. I probably wouldn't be that bothered by it if it only were Donna. It's pretty much everybody at this point. Maybe Moira's escaped the curse, but I can't claim to be sure on that front.

[dtissagirl]

For me it works the other way around -- because I know this is a feature, not a bug, it's way way easier for me to handwave the characters inconsistencies. It frustrates the hell outta me while I'm watching, but when I step back and remember they throw characters under the bus for plot all the freaking time, I'm able to move past it. It's not like they're gonna stop doing it anyway.

[Scribbles]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 4:24 AM, kismet said:

I actually think all the relationships on the show could benefit from less black/white, right/wrong, binary treatments. All of the characters' are human, which means the majority of their interactions and responses on a spectrum. There are very few decisions or interactions in life or relationships that can be characterized in a binary way.

Thank you for the binary description, it helped to organize my thoughts.  People are not purely anything, we are all hypocrits at times.  I suspect they set up the Donna bit as they did to leave a question to be answered later. 

[Thundercatmary]

Deleted 

Edited July 27, 2016 by Thundercatmary

[Soulfire]

Dude. Spoilers.

[Thundercatmary]

Oh damn sorry