S12.E15: Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell

[SueB]

Ah... it's vinyl.  It cleans pretty easy.  I suspect they clean it up at least once per hunt. 

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, rue721 said:

You know how some people put T-shirts over their front car seats to keep the seats' upholstery clean? It always looks so terrible. No offense to anybody here who does that, I just hate the look personally. Now I'm imagining the Impala with that tacky mess going on. No way! Even blood and gore is a better look than THAT. ;)

Hot leather/vinyl seats in a car without air conditioning in the 95 degree heat? T-shirts are a godsend that prevented 2nd degree burns. I'm not even kidding.

[MysteryGuest]

Knowing Dean, I'm sure Baby gets a compete scrub down after every hunt...inside and out!

[Diane]

On March 16, 2017 at 4:58 PM, MysteryGuest said:

Knowing Dean, I'm sure Baby gets a compete scrub down after every hunt...inside and out!

In the short shorts

[SueB]

During the WoL podcast, Sweet On Dean offers a good rationale for why it was reasonable to have Dean being so dirty and okay with it in the MoL bunker:

Argument begins at 34:47

 

I think she makes a good point.  

Edited March 27, 2017 by SueB

[ILoveReading]

This doesn't work for me because while I can believe that Dean doesn't mind getting dirty on hunts, I don't believe he'd wouldn't shower in the hotel rooms, or even on the off chance he they couldn't get a hotel room and he had a blanket to cover Baby's seats, I don't believe he wouldn't have headed right for the shower when they got back to the bunker.  Since all indications are that Dean cleans it, I don't see him flinging monster guys around.

I could almost buy he knew Sam was lying him and doing it to irritate Sam, but the show didn't go in that direction.

I don't think it was anyhting other than Perez trying to be funny and that for me it wasn't.  I found that scene full of contempt toward Dean.  

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I don't think it was anyhting other than Perez trying to be funny and that for me it wasn't.  I found that scene full of contempt toward Dean.  

I think it was humiliation humor and that is usually done with Dean. To me, the entire scene was gross and not because Dean sporting the gross look while Sam looked pristine. Like, what kind of ridiculous hunts did they go on that Dean is covered in pieces of all the monsters and Sam doesn`t have a speck on him? If Dean truly did all the work, I would have liked to see the godamn action scenes. Not this.

And the scene didn`t miss a beat before going into the "dumb" joke. Like, the gross joke was still visibly onscreen and then the "idiot" joined it. Two annoying tropes joined in unholy matrimony.

The Lucille bit was just pathetic. It was fun on twitter weeks ago but that was just grabbing onto a fun bit other people came up with and Perez taking it in lieu of doing anything smart or funny in that entire scene.   

[ILoveReading]

17 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Like, what kind of ridiculous hunts did they go on that Dean is covered in pieces of all the monsters and Sam doesn`t have a speck on him? If Dean truly did all the work, I would have liked to see the godamn action scenes. Not this.

This is what I wanted too.  I've really been missing badass Dean since he lost the mark

[catrox14]

8 hours ago, SueB said:

During the WoL podcast, Sweet On Dean offers a good rationale for why it was reasonable to have Dean being so dirty and okay with it in the MoL bunker:

Argument begins at 34:47

 

I think she makes a good point.  

 

 

I think Amy and Jules are off the mark here with the remark that FANDOM IS WRONG.

I listen to several SPN podcasts, including WoL, and some youtube reviewers and there seems to be a divide between those who weren't bothered and those who found Dean's behavior totally out of character. Go figure! Fandom disagrees with each other!

There is a difference between MESSY and UNCLEAN/FILTHY,  and between being germophobic and a neat freak (which are all a spectrum). I don't think Dean is an OCD neat nik per se nor is he one to wallow in filth, which is what happened in this episode.

I agree that Dean has been messy when they stay(ed) at hotels, which is an argument I made myself way back in the thread.  Dean doesn't have to clean a hotel room because hotels have maids if they allow them access to their rooms. But once Dean has a place of his own he took great care of it. Dean is occasionally messy and disorganized in his room but the example she gave was when Dean was obsessed with finding a solution to the MoC, so he wasn't really thinking about his room.

Dean's care of the Impala, has been a consistent character point from Day 1. The Impala has been and still is Dean's home, which he cares for, and as of 4 years ago, he moved into another home, of which he takes great care as well.  The only time Dean let the car go, was when he was a demon, but his personal cleanliness was still up to par, ( just look at his demon!Dean HAIR!) . So I have no idea why they sought to disallow that as indicative of Dean's cleanliness habits other than it didn't support their argument.

As to Dean's eating habits, think of how many occasions Dean has been shown eating: in bars, in restaurants, in the car, in a motel room, at the bunker. Dean eats a lot but he's never been shown to typically be a gross eater. He's civilized, he uses a knife and fork, unless he's eating hamburgers or sandwiches, and he uses napkins that he keeps in his lap because it's been shown. It's only been a handful of occasions when he's being gross, and those are almost  always for the gross!Dean joke, which is generally followed by dumb!Dean. Regardless of what Rowena said in Regarding Dean, he does NOT have the eating habits of a toddler (how would she even know? They don't dine together). I can forgive the gross pie eating in 12.02 because it was Dean being silly with Mary. Whatever. I'm letting it slide for now. 

Amy mentioned Dean eating from a take out box, and he immediately spit out the food. IMO, many viewers  side-eyed that as well, but ultimately attributed it to Dean being so hungover he wasn't himself. They referred to Dean's food being "Darwinism"  in Tall Tales, but left out that the episode was about exaggerated, slightly askew viewpoints of each other because of the Trickster shenanigans.

Dean sniffing the clothes in his duffle bag, doesn't imply he's willing to wear those filthy clothes but the opposite; that he's sniffing them to find something semi-clean to wear. Otherwise, he'd just put on whatever and not care.  Dean takes his clothes to a laundromat. If he didn't care about clean clothing, he wouldn't bother. This my opinion that Dean would not relish wearing the same underwear for 4 days. He just wouldn't unless he had no other choice and the scene in this episode, does not imply that IMO

I was really surprised they attempted to suggest that Dean's lack of revulsion to natural human bodily fluids that arise from sex (which is pretty clear that is what they meant) implies that Dean wouldn't be repulsed by monster guts, witchy stuff and human filth. Those are totally  different things. It's been consistently shown that Dean is grossed out by shapeshifter goo going back to s1 with "Skin" which continued in s2 (Nightshifter), s4 (Monster Movie), and s10 (Ask Jeeves). He's always been skeeved by witches ways. He was disgusted with the Benders home.  He wipes his hands after touching something dirty and icky, like the sulfur in Phantom Traveler, the railing in Freddy Krueger's office "Appointment in Samaara", the phone booth in s7 and many other random moments when he shows that him being squicked at something like that. IMO, those examples are a small sample size that more accurately represents Dean's consistent behavior his behavior in this episode.

I'll thrown in Dean Smith, who wasn't an alternate universe Dean. Zachariah took away Dean's memories of his entire life who was living a real life as a well dressed, well groomed, well organized man. That's not that big of stretch IMO to think on some level, it's in Dean's personality to be a little more clean, organized etc if he didn't have such a weird life. But I realize that's a reach but I'm just tossing it out there.

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think it was humiliation humor and that is usually done with Dean.To me, the entire scene was gross and not because Dean sporting the gross look while Sam looked pristine.

I wonder how much of this comes down to actors, though? I remember a commentary back in S7--Slash Fiction, I think--where Jensen said he "switch hit" a monster with an axe just so Jared wouldn't get leviathan goo all over him. And Jared was very thankful.

I've just gotten the impression over the years Jared doesn't like to get all goop-y and actively tries to avoid it happening. And, while Jensen doesn't like to wear it around all day, I think he's willing to get goop-y more for a joke or to sell a moment. So, it could be the writers just know the actors preferences and write toward it anymore?

I don't know, personally, I thought it was odd, but it didn't offend me. I just sighed and continued on.

[Katy M]

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

This doesn't work for me because while I can believe that Dean doesn't mind getting dirty on hunts, I don't believe he'd wouldn't shower in the hotel rooms, or even on the off chance he they couldn't get a hotel room and he had a blanket to cover Baby's seats, I don't believe he wouldn't have headed right for the shower when they got back to the bunker.  Since all indications are that Dean cleans it, I don't see him flinging monster guys around.

I could almost buy he knew Sam was lying him and doing it to irritate Sam, but the show didn't go in that direction.

I don't think it was anyhting other than Perez trying to be funny and that for me it wasn't.  I found that scene full of contempt toward Dean.  

I pretty much agree.  I don't have a problem that he got dirty.  I don't even have a problem that they would drive all the way back to the bunker dirty, because I don't recall them saying how far away they were.  I would probably rather drive a couple of hours than have people stare at me while checking into a hotel.  I don't really even have that much of a problem with him sitting down.  Sometimes you just need a minute before the shower. 

What I do have a problem with is the apparent going through 4 hunts without a shower and that Dean was willing to head out on another hunt without a shower.  That's ridiculous.  I also have a problem with Dean being THAT dirty with Sam being perfectly clean.  It just kind of made it look like Dean was doing all the work while Sam was texting and yelling "good job, watch out, are you done yet?"

[SueB]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I pretty much agree.  I don't have a problem that he got dirty.  I don't even have a problem that they would drive all the way back to the bunker dirty, because I don't recall them saying how far away they were.  I would probably rather drive a couple of hours than have people stare at me while checking into a hotel.  I don't really even have that much of a problem with him sitting down.  Sometimes you just need a minute before the shower. 

What I do have a problem with is the apparent going through 4 hunts without a shower and that Dean was willing to head out on another hunt without a shower.  That's ridiculous.  I also have a problem with Dean being THAT dirty with Sam being perfectly clean.  It just kind of made it look like Dean was doing all the work while Sam was texting and yelling "good job, watch out, are you done yet?"

I think their point (the WoL podcast) was that Dean was just harassing Sam at that point. Kind of like "smell my feet" sibling humor.  

Re-watching the scene, I think Dean was reveling in the stink a bit.  Please, hear me out... have you ever been SO dirty that getting more dirty was actually fun?  I have*.  I think Dean was likely teasing Sam about the baby wipes in a "bring it on" kind of vibe. I would have been really surprised if he got back in the car.  BUT Sam was hassling him about hygiene so he may have been yanking his chain.  And he went on to tease that he was so dirty because he did all the heavy lifting.  In sum, I saw Dean sitting down and taking pride in a 'job well done'. I presume he was so filthy because he went 'melee'** on a bunch of different monsters at once (or back to back) with SPN!Lucille.  Sam didn't get so dirty because he wasn't in the middle of the melee.  Whether he was taking out his own dudes or in a different room when Dean went to town with SPN!Lucille, IDK.    But honestly, I'd think most hunters would keep a distance from Dean with a bat like that.  He'd be mighty deadly once he cut loose and I would expect monster body parts flying everywhere. 

 

*Centuries-ish ago in Iowa, I used to rogue and de-tassle corn from 5-am to late afternoon. I would come home COVERED head to toe in dirt and sweat.  Caked on mud, baked on 'geech', and sweat running down my back in rivulets; my Mom would insist I hose off outside and come in via the back door and strip in the laundry room.   But I was so dirty, getting more dirty at the end of the day didn't bother me and in fact was kinda funny.  It's a thing.  

**think of melee as in the video game mode and it'll make more sense. 

[rue721]

2 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't know, personally, I thought it was odd, but it didn't offend me. I just sighed and continued on.

It somewhat offended me, because IMO it was sloppy, lazy writing. The joke didn't work because it wasn't in character. It wasn't in character (or funny) because nobody associated with the show bothered to put care into that scene and look at the jokes critically and come up with some good ones. They just went for the cheap shots and called it a day. Same thing with the joke in that same scene about Dean being stupid. Same thing with the Winchesters walking in with Lucille.

I'm not offended on Dean's behalf, I'm offended on my own behalf. I don't like seeing things being half-assed. Guess that's uptight, but I don't like the show "ironically," I straight up like it, and I appreciate it when the people who make it show it respect/care/love, too.

And he's not the only one to blame, but Perez especially needs to stop half-assing it IMO.

6 minutes ago, SueB said:

Re-watching the scene, I think Dean was reveling in the stink a bit.  Please, hear me out... have you ever been SO dirty that getting more dirty was actually fun?  I have*.

Yeah, me, too. But I actually didn't get the sense that Dean was trying to mess with Sam. I think it would have made the scene work a lot better if he was.

IMO Jensen usually would have been able to at least somewhat rescue a scene like that by taking more of a wry tone or something with it, but in this particular episode he wasn't on his usual game (for understandable reasons) and the scene had to more or less stand on its own. And, unfortunately, it couldn't (IMO).

I'm not trying to belabor it, but at the same time, I get frustrated by fans of something telling other fans to lighten up -- which is the read I got on the LoL podcast ladies' take on the issue. I mean, I guess we could all lighten up completely and not care about ANYTHING associated with the show, but what would the point of that be? Why would one particular scene or joke or whatever be less worthy of thought or critique than any other? IMO it's fair game.

[SueB]

3 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I'm not trying to belabor it, but at the same time, I get frustrated by fans of something telling other fans to lighten up -- which is the read I got on the LoL podcast ladies' take on the issue. I mean, I guess we could all lighten up completely and not care about ANYTHING associated with the show, but what would the point of that be? Why would one particular scene or joke or whatever be less worthy of thought or critique than any other? IMO it's fair game.

Fair point.  Just because a particular scene doesn't grate on me doesn't mean another one won't.  It IS part of the viewing experience, after all.  So, for example, while I personally don't like the gross eating thing Jensen does for laughs, I'm sure others don't care or think it's funny.  

Edited March 28, 2017 by SueB

[catrox14]

Just now, SueB said:

Re-watching the scene, I think Dean was reveling in the stink a bit.  Please, hear me out... have you ever been SO dirty that getting more dirty was actually fun?  I have*

Yes, I have, after going camping, making concrete post holes for fences, riding my horse through a creek and getting messy, and working as a groundskeeper for the school district. It is also NOT MONSTER GUTS all over me. 

Dean wasn't trekking through the woods escaping the Feds or going on a 4 day hike over the river and through the woods. If it's the zombie apocalpyse and Dean had to use zombie guts to blend in then YES he would do that. It's survival. Or if this was some kind of kill or be killed for a few days like he endured in Purgatory,  then sure I might buy it. But since Sam was with him and he was clean as a whistle, it implies either Sam didn't get into the fray with Dean (which NO). Or if he did fight somehow he avoided the blood and guts OR cared enough to stop and wash up but yet Dean didn't? I remember in "Free to be You and Me" Dean was out killing vampires, he took the time to wipe the blood off the Impala and when he got back to the motel room, he took the time to wipe the blood off his jacket. That was not a one time thing that fandom glommed onto.. It's part of Dean's consistent characterization about his cleanliness.

Even going with Dean wanting to revel in the monster guts, for a hot minute, IMO he would sit on the marble steps at  the entrance where he argued with Chuck,  but he wouldn't put the  barbed wire bat with monster shit on it the table where they study and occasionally have meals.

IMO it did nothing for Sam's characterization either. Sam hasn't nagged Dean in years about anything like this nor been shown to particularly be precious about the bunker or the furniture in the bunker.  So to make this dumb scene work they had to make Sam into the nag who hasn't been seen since like s1. 

It was as if Davy Perez watched Tall Tales and decided to lift the characterizations of Dean and Sam that were out of whack and warped perspectives and applied it them here.  It was Naggy McBitchface!Sam and Boorish!Dean.  Oh joy (not)

One final annoyance have is why if this bat was always in the trunk,  they haven't used it before?

IMO, this is a meta joke gone too far and if J2 encouraged it, then I blame them, too.  YMMV :)

[SueB]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

IMO, this is a meta joke gone too far and if J2 encouraged it, then I blame them, too.  YMMV :)

Entirely possible that J2 were involved.  Very "them". 

[catrox14]

33 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I'm not trying to belabor it, but at the same time, I get frustrated by fans of something telling other fans to lighten up -- which is the read I got on the LoL podcast ladies' take on the issue. I mean, I guess we could all lighten up completely and not care about ANYTHING associated with the show, but what would the point of that be? Why would one particular scene or joke or whatever be less worthy of thought or critique than any other? IMO it's fair game.

This is exactly how I felt listening to it. 

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, SueB said:

Entirely possible that J2 were involved.  Very "them". 

I think it's them not being reined in.  I feel like this is a joke someone needed to tell them to all pull back on a little bit. Usually I don't have much bad to say about Jensen's acting but even he didn't save this scene. Maybe some editing would have helped to  cut down the length of it.  Leave the whole thing for the gag reel. 

I think it might have been funnier if they left out the dumb!Dean bit along with Dean flicking the monster guts on the floor. IMO, it would have been funny if Dean couldn't actually get the monster guts out of his, so that prompts him to make a joke that maybe Sam's fancy shampoo that he's been hiding would work to get it out. End the scene there, without the push in on the bat.

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I think it's them not being reined in.  I feel like this is a joke someone needed to tell them to all pull back on a little bit. Usually I don't have much bad to say about Jensen's acting but even he didn't save this scene. Maybe some editing would have helped to  cut down the length of it.  Leave the whole thing for the gag reel. 

I think it might have been funnier if they left out the dumb!Dean bit along with Dean flicking the monster guts on the floor. IMO, it would have been funny if Dean couldn't actually get the monster guts out of his, so that prompts him to make a joke that maybe Sam's fancy shampoo that he's been hiding would work to get it out. End the scene there, without the push in on the bat.

Agree.  The exchange between Jensen and JDM was funny on twitter but it didn't work in show.  As you pointed out where has the bat been all this time?  We've never scene it before.

Plus, the last episode the show made a big point about Dean intervening after Ketch started torturing the vampire of Dean stepping in and showing mercy by promising to make it quick.  Then this episode of Dean going all Negan on monsters makes it seem like Perez really thinks Dean is just a killer and no better than Ketch.  It completely made the scene in the previous episode irrelevant.  

If it was Dean in a bad place mentally and taking out his frustration on monsters and that is why he was more aggressive then usual and why his hygiene slipped than I could almost reconcile that opening scene, but IMO if that was what I was was supposed to be seeing the writing and acting failed to highlight it. 

[ILoveReading]

The whole Bat joke make me think of this scene from Galavant

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

The whole Bat joke make me think of this scene from Galavant

Holy shit. I remember that scene and it's so damn funny. This is the perfect reply. Well done!

[MysteryGuest]

I'm assuming we were supposed to just get the inside joke of the bat and appreciate it for what it was, and move on.  But they don't know who they're dealing with here!  My biggest issue with the bat, aside from the chunks of monster stuck to it, is the fact that it's not at all the type of weapon Sam and Dean use when hunting monsters.  They use specific things for specific monsters, but each weapon is meant to dispatch the monster fairly quickly and I'll say almost humanely, for lack of a better word.  But this bat is just meant to beat the shit out of something, and to revel in the damage that you're doing to whatever it is you're hitting.  Now I know there have been scenes in the past where they've "enjoyed" cutting off some vamps head, but they still did it quickly and cleanly.  They didn't saw it off with some rusty, dull blade just to drag it out and torture the monster a bit more.  

Edited March 28, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

It somewhat offended me, because IMO it was sloppy, lazy writing.

Yeah, I agree. With a few minor tweaks the scene could've been fantastic. But, such is the sate of the show these days. I guess I'm just looking at it that it could've been far worse... .

[Katy M]

11 hours ago, SueB said:

So, for example, while I personally don't like the gross eating thing Jensen does for laughs, I'm sure others don't care or think it's funny.  

Now, see, that is something I think that Dean does to bug Sam.

[ILoveReading]

sorry wrong thread

Edited March 28, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

Quote

And, while Jensen doesn't like to wear it around all day, I think he's willing to get goop-y more for a joke or to sell a moment. So, it could be the writers just know the actors preferences and write toward it anymore?

That still didn`t mean the scene had to be written like a carricature version of "gross and dumb". It was way over the top IMO. Maybe Perez does think the Tall Tales versions are the actual characters and he missed the point of the episode. 

[SueB]

On 3/28/2017 at 8:34 AM, Katy M said:

Now, see, that is something I think that Dean does to bug Sam.

New headcanon! Boom!

[Goldmoon]

It is probably wildly unpopular to blame JA but I do.  He is supposed to know Dean better than anyone. As an actor (not a young boy) he should have course-corrected.

[Myrelle]

12 hours ago, Goldmoon said:

It is probably wildly unpopular to blame JA but I do.  He is supposed to know Dean better than anyone. As an actor (not a young boy) he should have course-corrected.

It's possible he tried to course-correct, but sometimes the writers/showrunners say no. I remember JP revealing that they said no to him once over a line that he didn't like at all, but the writer(or showrunner?-sorry can't remember which) REALLY! wanted it left in and exactly the way it was written.

They don't always get what they want as regards the writing, I'm sure. And who knows, maybe that was why he went so OTT with it.

It's all just speculation in the end, but speaking for myself, I doubt that they meddle in/with the writing as much as some think they do. It's not their job and they know that and what bothers the social media fandom to a great degree, might not bother them half as much. That scene could have been small potatoes to Jensen and to many in the viewing audience, for that matter, because as I've said before and still still feel-social media doesn't represent the entire viewing audience. They're just a fraction and a loud faction, IMO, and little more than that.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Myrelle

[bettername2come]

I feel bad for that couple in the beginning and I didn't even find them that likable until the reveal that the guy was going to propose. I'm with Dean, it is weird that Sam knows how much underwear Dean packed. "I'm using that fancy shampoo you keep hidden from me." I love that he's doing it, I love that Sam has it and I'm convinced that fancy shampoo isn't nearly as fancy as Dean thinks. It's probably like Pantene or something. Dammit, Cas! Agent Knowles! How many times do I have to tell you? Oh, Crowley and his dogs. Kelvin is so not an angel name, but I like him. Amused by Dean freaking out about leaving the car alone with Sam, but the joke felt cheap and a little too extreme. Sam and Dean need to wear their hipster glasses more. I like the twist that Gwen blames herself because she didn't love Marcus. The cooler got to be a weapon! I'm so happy for Cooler! It's his shining moment! I like seeing Crowley get revenge on Lucifer. I like that they didn't drag out the "Sam working for the BMOL behind Dean's back" storyline. Like that Dean's willing to listen to Sam because they work with people they distrust all the time. 

[Hanahope]

Ah good Crowley, really covering his bases this time.

im glad Sam was upfront with Dean about the BMOL. 

Yeah the rest of the plot, meh

Edited October 25, 2017 by Hanahope

[The Companion]

On 3/9/2017 at 8:21 PM, MysteryGuest said:

Not to mention he was sitting there flinging monster parts all over the bunker.  He's been shown to be a bit of a neat freak, so that really annoyed me.  Certainly, he's not above getting dirty, but he's just going to go back out on a hunt after 4 days with no shower, and with blood and guts in his hair.  Bullshit.

The writing for Dean has definitely sucked this season, IMO.  Just how many times must he be shown the error of his ways.  He'd better damn well get to say a giant "I told you so" to both Sam and Mary when this is all over. 

I hated this scene. I know it has been exhaustively covered, so I will just say that sometimes it feels like the write lowest common dean-ominator, and I hate it. See, e.g., when they had him leering at college girls and shoveling food in his face. It's never as funny at they seem to think.

 

On 3/9/2017 at 9:07 PM, catrox14 said:

 

Also, given I watch TWD and Negan is a fucking piece of shit, I'm not enamored of Dean being associated with Negan that way. It's a visual thing I'm not down with.

@ILoveReading

Here you go

I hate Negan so much. He may be my least favorite character in all of fiction (well or MAYBE fucking Cossette in Les Mis who just sucks the air from the room). His appearance in TWD was the end of the show. I stuck it out way too long after that, but he was the absolute worst and it became a hate watch and then just sticking it out hoping someone would bash his head in. 

On 3/9/2017 at 9:09 PM, companionenvy said:

In fairness, Sam also had to learn a Very Special Lesson about lying from this week's Person in Peril. And it wasn't even all that good a parallel. 

 

Ugh, I am just gonna pretend this episode is replaced with a conversation where Sam says he wants to use them to identify cases and Dean agrees to try it out because they work with bad guys all the time. I hate the unnecessary and ridiculous drama and Sam knows better. The entire plot line made no damn sense. Sigh 

 

On 3/10/2017 at 3:34 AM, DittyDotDot said:

Wow, so the show is firmly entrenched in the idea that if it worked in the past, we should damn well do it again...and again...and once more for good measure. Sigh.

 

I would argue it didn't work then. Sigh.

On 3/10/2017 at 7:46 AM, SueB said:

I think "fully onboard" and "caved way to fast" are both inaccurate descriptions of event. 

From the iTunes Closed Captioning:

Sam is:
1) Not taking orders from BMoL. He's worked cases they offered.  
2) Made it clear he doesn't like them. He is still wary.
3) Committed to bailing if 'something feels off'. 

Dean is:
1) Not trusting them.
2) Acknowledging that they work with those they don't like all the time if it gets the job done.  
3) Putting conditions on the arrangement with a "bail" clause.

In fact, I'd say the entire POINT of the episode from a Sam and Dean perspective was to have them work someone they don't trust (Crowley) on a relatively routine issue. Yes, it was logic based to call Crowley: one of his Hell Hounds had slipped it's leash and Crowley controls them -- or so they thought. But they didn't hesitate. And it worked out successful.  They THANKED Crowley (he's earned it IMO in recent weeks) and the girl gave Crowley a HUG.  

Bottom Line: The dialog does not support "full on-board". And Dean's rationale was sound plus he set conditions.  I'd call it maturity, not caving due to low self-esteem.  

I do agree with this interpretation.

On 3/11/2017 at 1:42 PM, catrox14 said:

Wait, what if we find out Castiel has a soul now. Or that he has been a nephilim all along!

SWERVE: Castiel is the love child of Mary and Chuck.

Writers: if we make them half brothers, maybe the shipping will die down

Internet: hahahahaha

On 3/14/2017 at 7:47 PM, ahrtee said:

The part that raised my eyebrows the most was the idea that Dean would *sit in Baby* covered in monster goop.  Even if he wasn't grossed out himself (and I remember him being disgusted by being covered in mud after jumping into the river in the Pilot) I don't think he'd risk Baby's upholstery.  Especially since he then proceeded to warn Sam to keep her safe.  

This. It made no sense that he would drip guts all over Baby.

 

This episode was meh at the best of times for me. Plus even if it was a devil dog, i hated the whimpers. At least nobody tried to bang it, I guess.

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

Plus even if it was a devil dog, i hated the whimpers. At least nobody tried to bang it, I guess.

Hee! Good point.

Sad, though, that this is something to be thankful for rather than ... something that's a given.***

*** I can't recall any other show that seems to have shown this kind of dog "fetish." I swear, the Carver years introduced some new lows for this show, but that was one of the worst.

(Caveat: I'm perhaps chagrined to say that I did find "Dog Dean Afternoon" to be one of my favorite episodes of season 9, but in my defense it was season 9, so...)

[ahrtee]

58 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

*** I can't recall any other show that seems to have shown this kind of dog "fetish." I swear, the Carver years introduced some new lows for this show, but that was one of the worst.

Moving to All Episodes.

Edited March 3, 2020 by ahrtee

[The Companion]

11 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Hee! Good point.

Sad, though, that this is something to be thankful for rather than ... something that's a given.***

*** I can't recall any other show that seems to have shown this kind of dog "fetish." I swear, the Carver years introduced some new lows for this show, but that was one of the worst.

(Caveat: I'm perhaps chagrined to say that I did find "Dog Dean Afternoon" to be one of my favorite episodes of season 9, but in my defense it was season 9, so...)

Perhaps they are secret geniuses. If you set the bar low, it's easy to get a win. 😆

Dog Dean Afternoon was at least otherwise entertaining. Just don't tell me about any fanfic featuring the poodle. 😆