S12.E15: Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell

[Diane]

THE HOUNDS OF HELL - An attack by an invisible hellhound at a campsite leads Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) to investigate the mysterious circumstances. Meanwhile, two of Crowley's (Mark A. Sheppard) own personal demons uncover what he has been hiding. Castiel (Misha Collins) gets a lead on Kelly Kline. Writer: Davy Perez, Director: Nina Lopez-Corrado.

[Geordiegirl1967]

Davy Perez wrote American Nightmare (the one with the woman in the basement). It is his only other ep and I think I remember Dean not having much to do and the timeline being wonky. But other bits of that ep were well done. So not sure whether that bodes well or not. On the other hand Nina directed Red Meat which was a brilliant ep and one Jared and Jensen talk about all the time as one of their recent favourites. They loved working with her. Not much she can do with a poor script though so fingers crossed the writing is good.

[Wayward Son]

15 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Davy Perez wrote American Nightmare (the one with the woman in the basement). It is his only other ep and I think I remember Dean not having much to do and the timeline being wonky. But other bits of that ep were well done. So not sure whether that bodes well or not. On the other hand Nina directed Red Meat which was a brilliant ep and one Jared and Jensen talk about all the time as one of their recent favourites. They loved working with her. Not much she can do with a poor script though so fingers crossed the writing is good.

Hi @Geordiegirl1967

He also wrote Stuck in the Middle (With You) :) 

[Geordiegirl1967]

2 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

He also wrote Stuck in the Middle (With You) :) 

Of course he did. Sorry. 

Not sure this makes me feel better though. Another disappointing episode for me. Too much soppy Cas stuff and (though whole season suffers from same fault IMO) nowhere near enough focus on the brothers. And again not much for Dean to do. 

[Wayward Son]

11 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Of course he did. Sorry. 

Not sure this makes me feel better though. Another disappointing episode for me. Too much soppy Cas stuff and (though whole season suffers from same fault IMO) nowhere near enough focus on the brothers. And again not much for Dean to do. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on the too much Cas issue. 

Gonna respond about this episode in the spoiler thread. I don't think we're meant to speculate about the episode in here until after it's aired :)

[Mick Lady]

Where did catrox go? 3,2,1....

[catrox14]

)

[Mick Lady]

Now all is right with the world!

[Morrigan2575]

This was a great episode, I got a good chuckle out of several scenes.

First the Lucille reference, I quit TWD last year after all their BS but, I knew the reference and enjoyed the line.

Second Dean ratting Sam out to Gwen...it was his idea. The line delivery and facial expression was perfect, very funny.

Third Lucifer telling the "true believer demon"...you just made this weird and then the little hand gestures/facial expression. 

Fourth Crowley's amusement over his little double entendre. Gross but funny.

In other news, is it wrong that my first thought at seeing the Hell Hound, was crap Dean is going to be pissed over Baby?

Hated the Gwen/Sam talk it was a little heavy handed. However, I like that Sam finally came clean. I am surprised at Dean's easy acceptance. Now of course Castiel is lying to Sam/Dean. I did like the Joshua mention, I remember when he was first introduced, all the speculation on if he was Jesus or not. Still not sure.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Res]

Well, that sucked. 

[Jediknight]

Did they really have to put the whimpers of Ramsey in?  I know she hurt Baby, was a hell hound, and was going to kill them all, but those whimpers man, they just made me want Sam to find a way to save her.

I liked Gwen, she and the girl related to Hitler were both good people in peril.  So it would be nice if both showed up again, and got to live.

Now we just count down the days till Sam and Dean find out about Magda, and those soldiers/agents/guards the BMoL have slaughtered.  I do wonder what's going to be the powder keg that blows up and causes everything to come to light.

I'm guessing Catiel's storyline will tie into the cosmic consequences Billie mentioned.

[MysteryGuest]

I can't say I enjoyed it as much as you did, Morrigan.  I guess we got our answer that Sam is fully onboard with the BMOL.  And Dean caved way too fast.  Not at all happy with this turn of events.  

The rogue hell hound idea was interesting, but obviously just a filler to move the Lucifer storyline along.  It was at least nice to see Crowley shut him down so quickly.  I'm sure it won't last, but it was satisfying.  

I don't normally comment on who gets what kills, but it does seem like Dean is doing an awful lot of wandering around away from the action lately.  Aside from the opening scene with him covered in monster goop, he seems to be just a bystander these last few episodes.  I hope that changes.

Edited March 10, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Did they really have to put the whimpers of Ramsey in?  I know she hurt Baby, was a hell hound, and was going to kill them all, but those whimpers man, they just made me want Sam to find a way to save her.

 

Thankfully I missed it in the final scene. It was bad enough hearing her whimper after the ax and bullets. 

In other news, no promo but, The Cw was kind enough to inform me that SPN is all new next week. Not sure if they did that before. 

[Macbeth]

Castiel using the name of Solange.  No.  Castiel is the Beyonce of Supernatural IMO. 

Granted Castiel has lost a step - but he is just going through his "Lemonade" period.

[Katy M]

I'm trying to figure out what Sam did on those off-screen hunts.  Dean was filthy and Sam was perfectly clean.  Not sure if that was to show some kind of juxtaposition (I admit I'm unsure of the definition of that word) between the two, or what.  Glad that the BMOL secret was not kept for long, and that Sam came clean without being caught or any great tragedy happening due to his sneakiness.  Loved that Crowley ended up getting the better of Lucifer...for now.  Couldn't believe how stupid that demon was.  Of course, Lucifer's not going to honor his word.  He's the devil.  duh.  I also liked Gwen.  Was totally bored with Cas and the other angel. I almost fell asleep during that one scene where they were talking. 

[catrox14]

Holy crap. That sucked. 

I don't know who the fuck those guys were in the beginning of the episode. I mean since when do they not immediately question whether someone made a deal or not. That's just stupid.

Dean is not going to revel in wearing the same underwear for 4 days nor wallow in gross body parts if he can get cleaned up.  Dean is a neat freak. He constantly washes his face and his hands. Who the fuck was that guy?

Dean doesn't give a shit if Sam drives the Impala anymore. Old joke has no place in the show now. Baby being injured broke my heart.

Hellhounds can just be fought off with an ax now. If only Dean knew this before he was ripped apart. WTF?

Did Sam restart the trials by killing the hellhound?

And OF COURSE Sam was lying to Dean and Dean was hurt and felt betrayed but he learned lesson 24873676962.   I just want to put my eye out with a rusty spork right now.

Not even the Dean Crowley snark was enjoyable.

I did appreciate that Dean thanked Crowley for saving Cas. But I have a bad feeling about Cas going back up to Heaven. He's a wanted angel isn't he still?

Maybe a re-watch I'll be  more "warmly disposed" to the episode but right now. NO THANK YOU. 

[Jediknight]

8 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

In other news, no promo but, The Cw was kind enough to inform me that SPN is all new next week. Not sure if they did that before. 

It's not new next week, it's the NCAA Tournament, so it will be a few weeks.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Jediknight

[DeeDee79]

This was an ok episode. Little complaints: why are Lucifer's wings so full and intact when he's a fallen Angel while Castiel's are so threadbare? Happy to hear of Joshua who was one of the kind Angels but why didn't we get to see him? The victim's girlfriend was hands on in saving herself in the woods and when the hellhound attacked her and Sam. Big complaints: Sam lying to Dean in the 1st five minutes; Dean traipsing through the woods bantering with Crowley during all of the action. P.S: loved the JDM shout out in the beginning with the bat :)

3 hours ago, Macbeth said:

Castiel using the name of Solange.  No.  Castiel is the Beyonce of Supernatural IMO. 

Granted Castiel has lost a step - but he is just going through his "Lemonade" period.

Would Crowley be Solange?

[Katy M]

Just now, DeeDee79 said:

Happy to hear of Joshua who was one of the kind Angels but why didn't we get to see him?

Joshua is the angel Sam and Dean spoke with in Heaven in Dark Side of the Moon.  Not sure if we're going to see him again or not.  Also not sure if he is actually having anything to do with this or if other angel only used his name to lure Cas up.  Honestly, have no idea what is happening there.

 

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Did Sam restart the trials by killing the hellhound?

No, the trials are only started if you recite the whatever they were saying in Enochian from the demon tablet.

[MysteryGuest]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Dean is not going to revel in wearing the same underwear for 4 days nor wallow in gross body parts if he can get cleaned up.  Dean is a neat freak. He constantly washes his face and his hands. Who the fuck was that guy?

Not to mention he was sitting there flinging monster parts all over the bunker.  He's been shown to be a bit of a neat freak, so that really annoyed me.  Certainly, he's not above getting dirty, but he's just going to go back out on a hunt after 4 days with no shower, and with blood and guts in his hair.  Bullshit.

The writing for Dean has definitely sucked this season, IMO.  Just how many times must he be shown the error of his ways.  He'd better damn well get to say a giant "I told you so" to both Sam and Mary when this is all over. 

[ILoveReading]

Perez is 0 for 3.   I called it last week and in the spoiler thread.  Dean wonders in the woods while Sam get to do everything.   Not only that but of course he does it without glasses. 

Once again another ep Dean wasn't needed for. That opening scene was terrible.  Dean can hack computers and he's kind of a neat freak.  But apparenty he;s perfectly okay being covered in blood.  I didn't find it funny. 

He caved way to fast.  But who didn't see Dean rolling over and playing good little solider.  He didn't even seem all that upset that Sam lied to him.

It does really look like Sam has drunk the koolaide.

The scene with Crowley was about the only good thing and Crowley beating up Lucifer.  But its the only

Boring. 

Remember when demons used to be scary,  Now they are just dumb. 

The girl was way to calm and accepting to be believable.  At least Ellie freaked out.

[Macbeth]

2 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Would Crowley be Solange?

I don't know.  I don't think so.  I think the core four are all stars.  However - Crowley may end up being Solange if Lucifer gets his groove back.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Dean is not going to revel in wearing the same underwear for 4 days nor wallow in gross body parts if he can get cleaned up.  Dean is a neat freak. He constantly washes his face and his hands. Who the fuck was that guy?

True! This is the guy that was disgusted walking through sewers looking for dragons in Like A Virgin and just using a phone booth in Plucky Pennywhistles. Dean doesn't revel in disgusting situations.

[catrox14]

ETA: I totally saw them completely lift from Nightshifter with Cas and NOT Ronald Resnick. Like it just too obvious.  I did find it amusing that the Hellhound was named Ramsey (that's a GoT nod IMO)

But holy crap, I disliked that episode a great deal

Edited March 10, 2017 by catrox14

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

Joshua is the angel Sam and Dean spoke with in Heaven in Dark Side of the Moon.  Not sure if we're going to see him again or not.  Also not sure if he is actually having anything to do with this or if other angel only used his name to lure Cas up.  Honestly, have no idea what is happening there.

Yes I remember who he was; they met him in the garden after Castiel told them to look for him. He was actually the 1st nice Angel we had seen outside of Castiel at the point so it was refreshing. I hope his name wasn't thrown into the mix to lure Cas into another " you betrayed Heaven" trap. I'm soooo over that.

3 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Not to mention he was sitting there flinging monster parts all over the bunker.

Again, this is the guy who gave Sam a bitchface for leaving a gum wrapper on his bedroom floor. Really?!!??

Edited March 10, 2017 by DeeDee79

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

No, the trials are only started if you recite the whatever they were saying in Enochian from the demon tablet.

The first step was killing a hellhound and being drenched in it's blood. Did he avoid getting hellhound blood on him this time? I really don't remember

[G-Man]

8 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Why are Lucifer's wings so full and intact when he's a fallen Angel while Castiel's are so threadbare? 

It was implied that since Lucifer is an archangel he wasn't effect by the fall like other angels. It's kinda like the archangel/angels blades an angel blade can harm Lucifer but it can't kill him 

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The first step was killing a hellhound and being drenched in it's blood. Did he avoid getting hellhound blood on him this time? I really don't remember

I think the instructions were literally to bathe in a hell hound's blood.  He didn't look like he got any blood on him.  But, again, without saying the (what is that called), thing it doesn't matter.

Edit:  A spell.  It's called a spell, and I am completely senile.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Katy M

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Again, this is the guy who gave Sam a bitchface for leaving a gum wrapper on his bedroom floor. Really?!!??

Honestly, I don't know who this Dean Winchester character was in this episode. He's no one I recognize. I'm assuming he's a doppelganger and Dean is off on vacation by himself.  JFC

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Macbeth said:

I don't know.  I don't think so.  I think the core four are all stars.  However - Crowley may end up being Solange if Lucifer gets his groove back.

True; also I forgot that Crowley declared himself to be Jay Z in The Foundry.

[MysteryGuest]

I swear, Lucifer's been in more scenes this season than he has in all the other seasons combined.  I really did not see that coming.  Half the episodes this season have featured him, which means that's half the episodes I've ignored large chunks of.  Unless there is a major turnaround in the remaining episodes, this season will definitely not be on my re-watch list.

Edited March 10, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

Just now, Katy M said:

I think the instructions were literally to bathe in a hell hound's blood.  He didn't look like he got any blood on him.  But, again, without saying the (what is that called), thing it doesn't matter.

I thought he had to recite that after he killed the hellhound. So I was thinking...welp since he already said it once...maybe this will inadvertently start the trial unbeknownst to Sam. I'm just throwing shit out there to keep myself remotely interested in the show right now.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, G-Man said:

It was implied that since Lucifer is an archangel he wasn't effect by the fall like other angels. It's kinda like the archangel/angels blades an angel blade can harm Lucifer but it can't kill him 

That's interesting but considering that he was booted from Heaven by God whereas the other Angels were ejected by a shady Angel you would think that his would be a little thready also :( I guess he's protected by his Archangel status.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I thought he had to recite that after he killed the hellhound. So I was thinking...welp since he already said it once...maybe this will inadvertently start the trial unbeknownst to Sam. I'm just throwing shit out there to keep myself remotely interested in the show right now.

Interesting theory.  But, I think as far as what went before with him, he kind of got reset when Gadreel healed him.  Otherwise, he could probably just heal a demon, say the spell and be done.  Either way, it won't be too hard to avoid saving a soul from hell and curing a demon, LOL.

[MysteryGuest]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Honestly, I don't know who this Dean Winchester character was in this episode. He's no one I recognize. I'm assuming he's a doppelganger and Dean is off on vacation by himself.  JFC

It's bad enough that Jensen and Jared have cut way back on their scenes this year, but the scenes they do get, for the most part, are just boring.  At least if they gave them something interesting to do or say, you wouldn't notice their absence so much.  But the combination of bad writing and lack of star time is just not cutting it for me.

[Mulva]

Great episode!  I've been enjoying this season bigly.  Loved the Nagan reference and the demon who just wanted to make hell great again.

[rue721]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Otherwise, he could probably just heal a demon, say the spell and be done.  Either way, it won't be too hard to avoid saving a soul from hell and curing a demon, LOL.

Oddly enough, Sam has already cured a demon -- Dean.

Edited March 10, 2017 by rue721

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Honestly, I don't know who this Dean Winchester character was in this episode. He's no one I recognize. I'm assuming he's a doppelganger and Dean is off on vacation by himself.  JFC

Hopefully it's on a beach sipping Cerveza's like he wanted.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Interesting theory.  But, I think as far as what went before with him, he kind of got reset when Gadreel healed him.  Otherwise, he could probably just heal a demon, say the spell and be done.  Either way, it won't be too hard to avoid saving a soul from hell and curing a demon, LOL.

I was so hoping when they came up with demon!Dean, that they would stretch it out like 10 episodes or even a season and end the show with  Sam closing the gates of Hell by curing Dean. Oh well.

Edited March 10, 2017 by catrox14

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Sam already cured a demon -- Dean.

He didn't recite the words afterward.  

[MysteryGuest]

Sam did appear to be covered in blood at the end, but I don't think it would re-start the trials.  I would guess, if they wanted to do that, they'd have to start at the beginning again, and recite all that mumbo jumbo after each trial.  I think shutting down hell is off their radar now.  Maybe after they systematically eliminate all of the monsters on earth with their pals the BMOL, they can start in on the demons and angels.  Everything must go!

In all sincerity, I can't see how playing these roles this season could possibly be interesting or challenging for Jensen or Jared.  This is the first year I've ever thought they were sort of mailing it in for certain scenes.  I can't really blame them with this awful writing, but it's depressing to watch.  This season had such potential, and they have completely blown it as far as I'm concerned.  

Edited March 10, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I was so hoping that they came up with demon!Dean, that they would stretch that out like 10 episodes and then it would end up with Sam closing the gates of Hell by curing Dean. Oh well.

This would have been a satisfying payoff to the Demon Dean story line; but wouldn't it leave Crowley without a kingdom?

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

He didn't recite the words afterward.  

Yeah, I often wondered why Sam didn't use his own blood and then do the recitation and close the gates of Hell in the process of curing Dean. I remember speculating that maybe Sam would drop dead if he did that since the trials were killing him.

2 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

This would have been a satisfying payoff to the Demon Dean story line; but wouldn't it leave Crowley without a kingdom?

I figured it would just trap Crowley in Hell with his demon hordes. 

[bethy]

Well, huh.

I'm with those who didn't recognize the Dean at the beginning, but there are always writers on this staff who want to go for the "laughs" about Dean being the gross slob (hilarious) and Sam the one who wants him to shower. Sigh. Sometimes I feel like they're relying on bad fan fiction for their characterization instead of the actual show they're writing for.

But I liked that last scene. I hated that Sam lied AGAIN (and that's not just directed at Sam) to begin with, but I appreciated that he owned up to it and actually said the "I'm sorry" words. And. It didn't bug me that Dean went with Sam's plan. I think it showed that Dean is trusting Sam on this, even if he really doesn't like it. I hope, that when the BMoL inevitably show themselves to be untrustworthy, that they'll stay on the same page. I liked the lack of brotherly angst the conversation signaled. 

That bat was the only thing that saved the first scene for me. Hee! I don't watch WD, but have seen the exchanges between JA and JDM. Love it.

Edited March 10, 2017 by bethy

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I figured it would just trap Crowley in Hell with his demon hordes. 

Perhaps but that would leave us without a way to maneuver Mark Sheppard into the overall story line. Again by season 10 I was over Crowley so no big. *shrugs*

[rue721]

I missed most of this episode because this 8 o'clock thing is just not working for me. How do you work and then commute home and then get some food and STILL make it in front of the TV by 8? Frustrating. I thought that once I was working 9-to-5, I could actually watch in real time but apparently...?

BUT anyway:

-- I didn't like the jokes about Sam driving the Impala. Just seemed really stale. Hasn't Sam not only habitually driven but straight up inherited the Impala twice now? (I'm thinking after S3 and then again after S7).

-- Pretty sure that Kelly's baby is not going to be evil, now that Crowley is talking about how he's going to tear it into pieces. Can't have the king of hell saving the world from devil spawn, I don't think. Better to have him kill or at least try to kill an innocent baby.

-- Sam saying that the BMOL killed the Alpha Vampire made me go, "aaaaaaguhghghhhhh." Sam killed the Alpha, and the BMOL acted as bait *if I'm being generous.* What is going on in Sam's head?

-- That said, OK, I'm on board for seeing where the show is going to go with the BMOL, because I am utterly confused. Were we (the audience) meant to be impressed by them last week? Because in no way were they impressive. No idea what's going on!

-- I liked Crowley beating on Lucifer. Childish as it is. I just really hate Lucifer. And not in a "love to hate" kind of way, which I think the show is going for. Just in a hate-hate way.

-- Dean and Crowley's dialogue in the woods was really clunky and poorly done IMO. The scene was stilted and awkward altogether, for some reason.

-- Dunno what's going on with Cas yet. I like that at of ALL the characters, Cas is the one who is most suspicious of being told what he wants to hear by someone who is asking him for a favor LOL. Maybe he should have tagged along to the BMOL's original pitch meeting with Mary. ;)

[ILoveReading]

43 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

And OF COURSE Sam was lying to Dean and Dean was hurt and felt betrayed but he learned lesson 24873676962.   I just want to put my eye out with a rusty spork right now.

Not even the Dean Crowley snark was enjoyable.

I did appreciate that Dean thanked Crowley for saving Cas. But I have a bad feeling about Cas going back up to Heaven. He's a wanted angel isn't he still?

Maybe a re-watch I'll be  more "warmly disposed" to the episode but right now. NO THANK YOU. 

In the space of one end scene and one episode they completely destroyed the one aspect of this season that I was enjoying, which was Dean's character growth about standing up for himself.   Good thing Mary set him straight last week.  Can I borrow that rusty spork?  I'm not even sure we'll get an I told you so for Dean.  Dabb seems to have drunk as much Koolaide as Mary and Sam have.

I couldn't enjoy Dean/Crowley because I knew they were just a place holder for Dean so Sam could do everything again.   I admire you if you can rewatch this.  I already deleted it off my DVR. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by ILoveReading

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I couldn't enjoy Dean/Crowley because I knew they were just a place holder for Dean so Sam could do everything again.   I admire you if you can rewatch this.  I already deleted it off my DVR. 

It's off of mine too. I thought that since it was a hellhound and Crowley was on board that there would be more Dean action.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Sam saying that the BMOL killed the Alpha Vampire made me go, "aaaaaaguhghghhhhh." Sam killed the Alpha, and the BMOL acted as bait *if I'm being generous.* What is going on in Sam's head?

I was thinking that, too, but then he wouldn't have been able to kill the alpha without the Colt, which they had.  He did have to show them how to make a bullet.  It was kind of a joint effort. 

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

ouldn't enjoy Dean/Crowley because I knew they were just a place holder for Dean so Sam could do everything again.   I admire you if you can rewatch this.  I already deleted it off my DVR. 

I have a sickness. I have to watch each episode at least twice, especially when I have such a profoundly negative reaction to an episode because I generally like this show. So I try to give it another chance to see if anything changes upon rewatch, like something in a performance I enjoy.

But truthfully, I did not like DEAN at all in this episode. It reminded me of how much I hated "Dean" in Fallen Idols or Halt and Catch Fire.  And it's always in the writing and Jensen has to make the best of it. But I have to say IMO that Lucille joke with the bat, I suspect was a Jensen joke request given their closeness with JDM.  I don't appreciate it, Jensen. LOL

Also, given I watch TWD and Negan is a fucking piece of shit, I'm not enamored of Dean being associated with Negan that way. It's a visual thing I'm not down with.

@ILoveReading

Here you go

Edited March 10, 2017 by catrox14