“Bitch” Vs. “Jerk”: Where We Discuss Who The Writers Screwed This Week/Season/Ever

[Aeryn13]

Just now, Casseiopeia said:

I suppose but Jensen (and Jared) have both said they are very protective of their characters.  Maybe the scripts look better on paper?

I think they are but Jensen isn't as competitive about it as Jared that his character has to be the bestest evar. And I think he just doesn't have that level of investment fans have. Which I don't mean as a negative, I think it's probably natural and healthy. If an actor was as super-invested in a character they play as a fan, it would probably not good for them and their personal life.

[Casseiopeia]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think they are but Jensen isn't as competitive about it as Jared that his character has to be the bestest evar. And I think he just doesn't have that level of investment fans have. Which I don't mean as a negative, I think it's probably natural and healthy. If an actor was as super-invested in a character they play as a fan, it would probably not good for them and their personal life.

 Recently Jensen said that he would specifically look for roles where he could embody all the traits of Dean Winchester...a character he spent 15 years honing.  He really seems to care a great deal about his craft.  But I could be reading too much into his comments.

[Myrelle]

35 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

 

The bigger question is why did Jensen hang in there? He certainly didn't have to....specially after S13.  

 

14 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I suppose but Jensen (and Jared) have both said they are very protective of their characters.  Maybe the scripts look better on paper?

I think Jensen wanted more of a challenge as an actor than he'd been given in predominantly s12 and most of 13 and even possibly for the larger part of s11.

He wanted to play a "different" role and the allure of MichaelDean likely enticed him to sign on for two more.

And who knows,  maybe if they would have given that character the writing attention that he'd hoped for(or even as much or as little as the DemonDean or MOCDean characters had received) perhaps we'd be getting a 16 and 17 out of this show.

But we all know what he did and didn't get out of the showrunner for that character and it was that, that became the tipping point and the last straw for him, IMO.

[Aeryn13]

12 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

 Recently Jensen said that he would specifically look for roles where he could embody all the traits of Dean Winchester...a character he spent 15 years honing.  He really seems to care a great deal about his craft.  But I could be reading too much into his comments.

I think he does care a great deal. But for a fan, the character is all they know, their life, their feelings, they know them better than perhaps even a best friend. That can create an intense level of investment over time. The actor we know maybe 5 % of their public persona. Whereas the actor themselves is of course 100 % of his own person, on top of the character they play. And they will have to draw a line between where they begin and the character ends. By necessity I think that creates a different level of investment. 

So while I believe he loves Dean as a character, I think it is a different way than Dean-fans love the character. I mean the comedy improvs that often made the character look stupid were his ideas. Different perspective in having fun on set and watching the final product and finding the scene funny.

[Terese]

4 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Moved from the Unity thread:

The bolded part (emphasis mine)  is the best description we've had of Dabb's writing.  He is, and always has been, a comic-book writer.  He's more enthralled by comic books and cartoons than "adult stories," and all his writing and showrunning shows it.  

There's never been any hint that he has anything in mind other than WYSIWYG--no hidden depths to any of his characters, and he's managed to make the 3D characters created by others into as one-dimensional and cheesy as his own creations.  He may, indeed, pull some kind of "twist" at the end, but it's not one that grows organically or is anything other than a "gotcha!" moment.  

If you check Dabb's Twitter account, he's obsessed with a particular artist that does nothing but bug-eyed cartoon women.  He spends most of his time praising and raving about those pictures, and only mentions Supernatural when either he retweets something from WB or (I'm guessing) is pressed to give some supposedly intriguing hint about the upcoming ep (NOTE TO DABB:  your hints are more confusing than intriguing, and usually have nothing whatsoever to do with the actual content of the ep.)  This is not someone who is invested in his own show, much less wanting others to watch and enjoy.  His version of life *is* a cartoon, very static, where he can read whatever he wants into a single picture and doesn't give a shit about anyone else seeing what he does (much less liking it.)  

Am I bitter?  Hell yes!  It's bad enough to create your own 2-D characters and think they're good; it's beyond horrible to take well-developed 3-D ones and reduce them to line drawings.  And that's all on Dabb, not Chuck. 

Thank you Ahrtee, and thank you for expanding. I have never looked at Dabb's pages and posts. Damn. 

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

As an actor on the show he would have a different perspective on it to a degree. Very good money for increasingly less time. Steady job. Genuinely enjoys the environment on set and the crew he works with. All perks no mere viewer has. 

Not to mention, I think he (and Jared) did not want to put 100+ people out of work. I wouldn't be surprised if he negotiated one more season to give them the time to find other work.

[FlickChick]

1 hour ago, Terese said:

Thank you Ahrtee, and thank you for expanding. I have never looked at Dabb's pages and posts. Damn. 

Yikes! There is something seriously wrong with this guy - such an obsession and so little regard for the show that's supporting him. Fuck you, Badd!

[ahrtee]

Dabbernatural:

[FlickChick]

That just makes me want to cry. 😞

[tessathereaper]

On 10/31/2020 at 4:54 PM, catrox14 said:

Not to mention, I think he (and Jared) did not want to put 100+ people out of work. I wouldn't be surprised if he negotiated one more season to give them the time to find other work.

I think that's actually a huge part of it.  If they were ending it in 14, it would have given the crew just a few months to finish the show and find a new job.  Going for 15 gave the crew a little over a year to look for new work(and it turned out to be even longer).  I actually think that was a big consideration.

I think Jensen stayed because he's loyal to real people first and foremost and much as we love Dean, many of these people are his friends, that's more important than a fictional character and also because frankly they snowed him with Michael, he believed it and then they pulled the rug out from under him.  That was I think the final straw.

Also WTF is wrong with Dabb, I never really paid attention to his SM, that's just weird.

Edited November 1, 2020 by tessathereaper

[SueB]

While I'm not a fan, Dabb's constant big-eyed T-shirts aren't a specific comic character. It's Pop Surrealism (aka, no kidding, "Lowbrow") - which DOES have a comic (in this case comix book) element - which is what is often picked up on.  He seems to be a fan of a particular artist.  And yes, the sexual element is there plus the big eyes and theoretically social commentary (which I totally don't know what I'm suppose to get out of it).  

Personally, I find it pretentious.  Like the show runner is 'too cool' for his own show and thus doesn't wear Supernatural T-shirts.  I prefer geeks like Kripke who nerd out over his own stuff. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by SueB

[shoetingstar]

On 10/30/2020 at 11:16 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

I think it's telling that in all the interviews and zooms, etc., surrounding the final season and especially this final run, I can't recall one word of praise from Jensen about any of the writing or writers.  He openly said he would have liked to get to the ending some other way (paraphrased). The last writer I can remembering him even mentioning is Robbie Thompson ('jokingly' asking him to come back). Jensen is effusive in his praise of his fellow actors and of the production crew, so IMO his silence speaks volumes.  And here at the end, with only a few hours of show left,  there is radio silence on social media. I will never believe he enjoyed these last two eps, and I dread the next one, since no doubt 

  Reveal spoiler

Responsibility for Castiel's fate will probably be laid at  Dean's feet, too.  

 

His integrity was like our mama's advise: If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." lol

On 10/30/2020 at 11:47 PM, DeeDee79 said:

I agree with you and this makes me glad that it was Jensen that pulled the plug ( it seems obvious now ) but I'm also upset that he didn't do so sooner. It seems glaringly obvious to me that the disdain that the writers have for Dean increased tenfold in the last season and it can only be because they are taking it out on Jensen for ending things. I'm also seriously side eyeing Jared for being so gung ho about the final season which can only be because he's being portrayed as the good guy while his supposed buddy that's been there and has had his back from the beginning is having his character destroyed with every episode. I also agree with you @gonzosgirrl regarding being a little upset with Jensen that he stuck around this long. In my mind the series ended with season 11 ( omitting the BMOL scenes in the finale ) and I'm sticking to that.

I'm very disappointed in Jared. I mean, he could at least act neutral but he's buttering his bread nice and thick, maybe because protected his position with the network?

My question to you experts: Is there not anyone who could have been more supportive/protective of Jensen? WHY does Dabb have such License to ruin this character and, make the actor's experience hell? Gamble was forced to bring Castiel back after firing Misha. Why is Dabb so untouchable?

Edited November 3, 2020 by shoetingstar

[DeeDee79]

4 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

My question to you experts: Is there not anyone who could have been more supportive/protective of Jensen? WHY does Dabb have such License to ruin this character and, make the actor's experience hell? Gamble was forced to bring Castiel back after firing Misha. Why is Dabb so untouchable?

My speculation is that there was more of a fuss when Misha was fired because Jensen and Jared were both unhappy with the overall season and the network paid attention. Now it's pretty close to the end and Dabb got out of control after they had already pulled the plug. I'm guessing that at this point in the game the network didn't care enough to step in for a show that was already on its way out.

[shoetingstar]

Quote

My speculation is that there was more of a fuss when Misha was fired because Jensen and Jared were both unhappy with the overall season and the network paid attention. Now it's pretty close to the end and Dabb got out of control after they had already pulled the plug. I'm guessing that at this point in the game the network didn't care enough to step in for a show that was already on its way out.

That makes sense, I can totally see that being the case.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, this post makes me so HAPPY. Sam being the academically driven brother has now been reduced to Sam is the Smart one and Dean isn't. I can't recall the exact quotes but there has been a few times where a baddie stated as much. Just a reminder that Dean is also smart and not the dumb brother. I love this account - they always have good stuff:

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by shoetingstar

[Castiels Cat]

9 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

That makes sense, I can totally see that being the case.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, this post makes me so HAPPY. Sam being the academically driven brother has now been reduced to Sam is the Smart one and Dean isn't. I can't recall the exact quotes but there has been a few times where a baddie stated as much. Just a reminder that Dean is also smart and not the dumb brother. I love this account - they always have good stuff:

 

Yep. 

Also Moose and Squirrel courtesy of Crowley. Squirrel is the smart one and the leader and the planner.

[Castiels Cat]

10 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

His integrity was like hour mamas: If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." lol

I'm very disappointed in Jared. I mean, he could at least act neutral but he's buttering his bread nice and thick, maybe because protected his position with the network?

My question to you experts: Is there not anyone who could have been more supportive/protective of Jensen? WHY does Dabb have such License to ruin this character and, make the actor's experience hell? Gamble was forced to bring Castiel back after firing Misha. Why is Dabb so untouchable?

Jensen has carried the show for 15 years and they all know it. Jensen is moving on to THE HIT SHOW and it will give him the freedom to do film work.

I can barely remember to watch this thing anymore.

I don't know what Dabb thinks he is doing but the numbers speak for themselves. 

I am sure Netflix thinks the Supernatural fan base will follow him.to Resident Evil.

I think the majority are pissed and will not. That man will reap what he has shown with his petty games.

It's bad enough that he messed with Jensen but to mess with fans in the final season of a show...

I can't even bother to remember these episodes. I just want it to be over.

 

[tessathereaper]

10 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

My speculation is that there was more of a fuss when Misha was fired because Jensen and Jared were both unhappy with the overall season and the network paid attention. Now it's pretty close to the end and Dabb got out of control after they had already pulled the plug. I'm guessing that at this point in the game the network didn't care enough to step in for a show that was already on its way out.

Which is kind of dumb on their part because a bad ending can lead to bad syndication ratings and thus less money going forward.  Sure there are 11 great/good/half the time decent seasons, but a bad ending leaves a bad taste in people's mouths.

[AwesomO4000]

On 11/2/2020 at 9:53 PM, shoetingstar said:

I'm very disappointed in Jared. I mean, he could at least act neutral but he's buttering his bread nice and thick, maybe because protected his position with the network?

My question to you experts: Is there not anyone who could have been more supportive/protective of Jensen? WHY does Dabb have such License to ruin this character and, make the actor's experience hell? Gamble was forced to bring Castiel back after firing Misha. Why is Dabb so untouchable?

Why is it only Jared's responsibility to support/protect Jensen and Dean? As far as I know, Jensen sure didn't do anything when Carver was destroying Sam's character in season 8. In fact, Jensen mentions season 8 as one of his favorites and Benny as a favorite arc of his even though Sam was thrown under the bus and run over repeatedly during that arc. So I don't see why Jared always gets the criticism on this point.

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Why is it only Jared's responsibility to support/protect Jensen and Dean? As far as I know, Jensen sure didn't do anything when Carver was destroying Sam's character in season 8. In fact, Jensen mentions season 8 as one of his favorites and Benny as a favorite arc of his even though Sam was thrown under the bus and run over repeatedly during that arc. So I don't see why Jared always gets the criticism on this point.

Maybe because Jared talked a lot about how much he loved that arc.  Or maybe he didn't see it as them destroying his character since Carver called Dean boring, and all Singer and Carver could talk about was how mean Dean was being.

[AwesomO4000]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

Maybe because Jared talked a lot about how much he loved that arc. 

Maybe the writers sold Jared a bill of goods when pitching it? Or it could also have been that Jared was just being supportive of the show and towing the company line, because if I remember correctly, Jared didn't like that arc at all later on and thought that Sam would have looked for Dean.

 

[ILoveReading]

Just now, AwesomO4000 said:

Maybe the writers sold Jared a bill of goods when pitching it? Or it could also have been that Jared was just being supportive of the show and towing the company line, because if I remember correctly, Jared didn't like that arc at all later on and thought that Sam would have looked for Dean.

 

If Jared didn't object how was Jensen supposed to know.? Jensen made his displeasure about the proposed ending.  Its not the same situation.

[AwesomO4000]

17 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

If Jared didn't object how was Jensen supposed to know.? Jensen made his displeasure about the proposed ending.  Its not the same situation.

My point is that even now and/or recently, Jensen calls it / Purgatory one his favorite arcs (maybe his favorite overall), meaning that he likes it even though it wasn't a great arc at all for Sam's character. It's not the same situation, but it is an example of Jensen liking an arc, because he thought it was good / exciting for his character, not necessarily Jared's character. It's not only Jared who likes an arc because it is good for his character.

And personally I think that's human nature and that there isn't anything wrong with that for either of them.

Edited to add: And it sounds like even from close to the beginning Jared kind of had to talk himself into it. Here's an interview I found on the subject: https://cartermatt.com/37926/supernatural-season-8-spoilers-jared-padalecki-defends-sams-actions/.

Whenever someone starts out an answer with "The way I kind of had to work it out..." for me that's sort of saying that he wasn't really on board with it and had to find excuses / reasons to make it work. I get it that other's opinions on this will vary, but for me that didn't sound all that gung ho on the idea... And the really ironic thing was Jared supposedly talking about liking to see Sam a bit more independent. If only he had known then how Carver was going to end the season with Sam more codependent than ever.

Edited November 6, 2020 by AwesomO4000

[tessathereaper]

2 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

My point is that even now and/or recently, Jensen calls it / Purgatory one his favorite arcs (maybe his favorite overall), meaning that he likes it even though it wasn't a great arc at all for Sam's character. It's not the same situation, but it is an example of Jensen liking an arc, because he thought it was good / exciting for his character, not necessarily Jared's character. It's not only Jared who likes an arc because it is good for his character.

And personally I think that's human nature and that there isn't anything wrong with that for either of them.

Jensen was literally talking about Dean IN Purgatory, which was mostly a bunch of flashbacks and actually had nothing to do with Sam.  And in any case, everyone including Jared liked that Sam arc.  They all thought Dean was the bad guy in that arc(as per usual).  Mean Dean and oh so mature Sam was how they talked about it in interviews even after those episodes were filmed.  

[ahrtee]

18 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Why is it only Jared's responsibility to support/protect Jensen and Dean? As far as I know, Jensen sure didn't do anything when Carver was destroying Sam's character in season 8. In fact, Jensen mentions season 8 as one of his favorites and Benny as a favorite arc of his even though Sam was thrown under the bus and run over repeatedly during that arc. So I don't see why Jared always gets the criticism on this point.

*sigh* Back to season 8.  

16 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Maybe because Jared talked a lot about how much he loved that arc.  Or maybe he didn't see it as them destroying his character since Carver called Dean boring, and all Singer and Carver could talk about was how mean Dean was being.

Most actors enjoy roles that allow them to stretch and do something different, especially when they've been playing the same character for so long.  How the character is perceived doesn't necessarily create problems for the actor, *especially* if he's reset back to his "normal" hero role within a few episodes.  Meanwhile, they can have fun with playing against type.  

No matter how many times you talk about Sam being "thrown under the bus and run over repeatedly" in season 8, that OOC part lasted for less than half a season, Dean wound up apologizing, and Sam was back to being a hero (and the main focus of the story line) by episode 14 out of 23.  So he seemed to have recovered completely from his bus encounter.  

2 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

My point is that even now and/or recently, Jensen calls it / Purgatory one his favorite arcs (maybe his favorite overall), meaning that he likes it even though it wasn't a great arc at all for Sam's character. It's not the same situation, but it is an example of Jensen liking an arc, because he thought it was good / exciting for his character, not necessarily Jared's character. It's not only Jared who likes an arc because it is good for his character.

And personally I think that's human nature and that there isn't anything wrong with that for either of them.

I don't think anyone has said that only Jared likes arcs that are good for his character (and both have enjoyed arcs or individual eps where they play either genuine assholes or fools).  I think the point here is that, while most arcs are just that--they have a beginning, usually a reason for it, and then an end; but the Dean-bashing by the writers/showrunner wasn't part of any particular arc, just seemed to show dislike for the character itself.  And a large part wasn't blatantly OOC, just him being pushed aside, treated as wrong, bad, selfish, useless and/or stupid.  And that damaged the show as a whole, not just the Dean part of it, because it changed the dynamics, both between the characters and the viewers.  And I would think that, if Jared saw how badly the new characterizations/writing was affecting the show, he might speak up about it, even if he wasn't trying to help/protect Jensen.    Just a thought.

 

[DeeDee79]

28 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

*sigh* Back to season 8.

😂

[AwesomO4000]

42 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

think the point here is that, while most arcs are just that--they have a beginning, usually a reason for it, and then an end; but the Dean-bashing by the writers/showrunner wasn't part of any particular arc, just seemed to show dislike for the character itself. 

Except that I don't see the "Dean bashing" everyone else seems to see. I see at as set up to the "big reveal." ....which ironically happened tonight. Where all of the supposed Dean bashing is turned on it's head and we learn that Dean is seen as the awesome person that he is by "everyone who knows him."

Yes, it's annoying getting there. And yes, it's stupid, but the show has done this again and again since Carver took over. We have speeches where all of these supposedly awful things are said about Dean by the bad guys, by angry family, by Dean himself, but in the end that's not what turns out to be the truth. And in the end, it's made perfectly clear by the narrative in some important way that the real truth is that Dean is the one who is important and is the "righteous man," the "firewall," the reason all is saved, the one who transforms the other characters and makes them want to be better than they are (even my Sam example below is an example of this).

I don't know. Maybe it's supposed to be more emotional or more of a revelation or something when it's done that way. I think it's annoying, because I'm not buying the misdirection when it's happening, because it doesn't ring true or make any sort of sense, but in the end there it is, and this is what the writers do, in my opinion. They appear to put Dean down and then surprise! (not really), Dean was right and is the awesome one after all.

I'm pretty sure I predicted this was going to happen this season, too, somewhere here, because it happens all the time.

Quote

No matter how many times you talk about Sam being "thrown under the bus and run over repeatedly" in season 8, that OOC part lasted for less than half a season, Dean wound up apologizing, and Sam was back to being a hero (and the main focus of the story line) by episode 14 out of 23.  So he seemed to have recovered completely from his bus encounter. 

A half a season is a long time, and the damage was substantial.  Also Sam didn't end up being a "hero." He didn't even complete the trials, and he was portrayed as abandoning them for selfish reasons... because according to Carver, Sam's motivation to stop the trials wasn't because gee maybe it was kind of a risky thing to do and maybe they should think things through a bit more... it was because Sam was doing it to begin with, because he didn't want to disappoint Dean / wanted Dean's approval, and having that, he didn't have to go through with it after all.

Others may see that as heroic... but I sure don't.

Quote

*sigh* Back to season 8.

You're right.

I should remember to forget that season ever happened. I'll try not to mention it again in the foreseeable future.

Edited November 6, 2020 by AwesomO4000

[ahrtee]

Just now, AwesomO4000 said:

Except that I don't seethe "Dean bashing" everyone else seems to see. I see at as set up to the "big reveal." ....which ironically happened tonight. Where all of the supposed Dean bashing is turned on it's head and we learn that Dean is seen as the awesome person that he is by "everyone who knows him."

Yes, it's annoying getting there. And yes, it's stupid, but the show has done this again and again since Carver took over. We have speeches where all of these supposedly awful things are said about Dean by the bad guys, by angry family, by Dean himself, but in the end that's not what turns out to be the truth. And in the end, it's made perfectly clear by the narrative in some important way that the real truth is that Dean is the one who is important and is the "righteous man," the "firewall," the reason all is saved, the one who transforms the other characters and makes them want to be better than they are (even my Sam example below is an example of this).

I don't know. Maybe it's supposed to be more emotional or more of a revelation or something when it's done that way. I think it's annoying, because I'm not buying it when it's happening, because it doesn't ring true or make any sort of sense, but in the end there it is, and this is what the writers do, in my opinion. They appear to put Dean down and then surprise! (not really), Dean was right and is the awesome one after all.

I'm pretty sure I predicted this was going to happen this season, too, somewhere here, because it happens all the time.

A half a season is a long time, and the damage was substantial.  Also Sam didn't end up being a "hero." He didn't even complete the trails, and he was portrayed as abandoning them for selfish reasons... because according to Carver, Sam's motivation to stop the trials wasn't because gee maybe it was kind of a risky thing to do and maybe they should think things through a bit more... it was because Sam was doing it to begin with, because he didn't want to disappoint Dean / wanted Dean's approval, and having that, he didn't have to go through with it after all.

Others may see that as heroic... but I sure don't.

You're right.

I should remember to forget that season ever happened. I'll try not to mention it again in the foreseeable future.

YMMV.  Agree to disagree.  Many times.  

[Pondlass1]

This recent episode is a shining example of writers pandering to a fandom. No wonder Jensen wasn’t keen.

[shoetingstar]

Phuck!

Some folks on twitter and tumblr are mad at Dean and labeling him homophobic. Apparently he didn't react big enough to Cas' Confessional. This is the nonsense I'm talking about. 

 

It feels like another wave of ongoing anger against Jensen for not pushing Destiel to their satisfaction, i.e. the level Misha has.

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by shoetingstar

[7kstar]

2 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

My point is that even now and/or recently, Jensen calls it / Purgatory one his favorite arcs (maybe his favorite overall), meaning that he likes it even though it wasn't a great arc at all for Sam's character. It's not the same situation, but it is an example of Jensen liking an arc, because he thought it was good / exciting for his character, not necessarily Jared's character. It's not only Jared who likes an arc because it is good for his character.

And personally I think that's human nature and that there isn't anything wrong with that for either of them.

Quote

One of the other changes for this season is that you are seeing a little bit less of a workload on the two characters, and this is in many ways a deliberate move so that they can have a little more time off. (After also, Jared is now a dad!) The upside of this is that we do get some creative episodes, including the “found footage” hour we are going to see Wednesday night.

I enjoyed the Purgatory flashbacks.  I liked Benny.  I can see why Jensen enjoyed the challenged.  Enjoying something because it challenges you as an actor, well that is a normal acting choice.

Why Jared didn't have a problem with season 8... the end quote sums it up, it gave him some time OFF.  Time to be a young father.   Did I love what they did with Sam in season 8 not really.  But I would take what Carver did over what Dabb has done.

I came back to watching the show during 8.  Now I was still skipping eps and watching it when I had time, but I didn't watch all of 6 or 7.  I had one foot out the door.  Dean's storyline did pull me back in.

I also don't expect Jared to defend Jensen.  He will love a season that Jensen may hate.  I can even believe that he thinks this season has been so awesome.  Him loving the ending doesn't sell me the goods.  I find that Jensen has a better pulse on what makes a show interesting than Jared for the most part.  JMO.

Awesome, we don't always agree and I do respect your love for Sam.  But this season has been worst for both characters in my book.  I doubt Dabb can do anything that is strong unless it happens by accident.  But everything I've seen so far; has just proved Jensen correct that this will not be a strong ending for Supernatural.  But since I expect lame...well I do have more tolerance than if I was sooooo excited for the ending.

[Myrelle]

27 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

Phuck!

Some folks on twitter and tumblr are mad at Dean and labeling him homophobic. Apparently he didn't react big enough to Cas' Confessional. This is the nonsense I'm talking about. 

 

It feels like another wave of ongoing anger against Jensen for not pushing Destiel to their satisfaction, i.e. the level Misha has.

 

The inmates are running the asylum these days at tumblr and I block every one of these nut jobs on my twitter account.

They are truly scary in their inability to distinguish real life from fiction and should seek therapy for that, IMO.

 

[ahrtee]

39 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

Phuck!

Some folks on twitter and tumblr are mad at Dean and labeling him homophobic. Apparently he didn't react big enough to Cas' Confessional. This is the nonsense I'm talking about. 

 

It feels like another wave of ongoing anger against Jensen for not pushing Destiel to their satisfaction, i.e. the level Misha has.

 

One of the things that pisses me off the most from that group is  the idea that sexual love is the only kind there is,  and if you love someone you automatically want to jump their bones.   If not,  there's something wrong with you -- Either you're in denial or a hater.  

What's worse to me is not accepting someone's choices.   If people want acceptance for however or whoever they choose to love,  why won't they allow others the same choice?  Straight (or even platonic) is as much an option as any other.  It doesn't mean homophobia.  Imagine the fuss if someone insisted that charlie, for example,  really wanted to sleep with Dean but was refusing to admit it.  She's actually a closet heterosexual and just needs to be brave  enough to admit it or meet the right person to make her change her ways.   Ugh. 

Eta: everyone is welcome to fantasize whatever pairing (and behavior)  they want.  But they're not allowed imo to get angry  or blame anyone--especially the actors --if canon doesn't follow through or agree with them.   That's what fanfic is for. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by ahrtee

[gonzosgirrl]

A) Jensen didn't write the script, and B) Dean had all of about ten seconds to absorb and react at all before The Empty and Billie came.and Cas was gone.

C) These people are exhausting in their relentless idiocy. 

[Katy M]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

A) Jensen didn't write the script, and B) Dean had all of about ten seconds to absorb and react at all before The Empty and Billie came.and Cas was gone.

C) These people are exhausting in their relentless idiocy. 

And, D) Destiel has never been on-screen canon and if the writers and/or Jensen and/or anyone else decided not to make it so, then so be it.

[Myrelle]

15 minutes ago, Katy M said:

And, D) Destiel has never been on-screen canon and if the writers and/or Jensen and/or anyone else decided not to make it so, then so be it.

At most, it seemed more like unrequited love on Castiel's part to me, which I would kind of expect on the afternoon soap that Badd has turned this show into. And considering how much of a turd Castiel has been to Dean since the Nougatbaby came on the scene, it didn't even feel IC for Castiel to me, at this point. 

But if one of them was forced to declare their love, in that manner, for the other, I'm just glad it was Cas and not Dean. 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Myrelle
Additions

[Castiels Cat]

16 hours ago, 7kstar said:

I enjoyed the Purgatory flashbacks.  I liked Benny.  I can see why Jensen enjoyed the challenged.  Enjoying something because it challenges you as an actor, well that is a normal acting choice.

Why Jared didn't have a problem with season 8... the end quote sums it up, it gave him some time OFF.  Time to be a young father.   Did I love what they did with Sam in season 8 not really.  But I would take what Carver did over what Dabb has done.

I came back to watching the show during 8.  Now I was still skipping eps and watching it when I had time, but I didn't watch all of 6 or 7.  I had one foot out the door.  Dean's storyline did pull me back in.

I also don't expect Jared to defend Jensen.  He will love a season that Jensen may hate.  I can even believe that he thinks this season has been so awesome.  Him loving the ending doesn't sell me the goods.  I find that Jensen has a better pulse on what makes a show interesting than Jared for the most part.  JMO.

Awesome, we don't always agree and I do respect your love for Sam.  But this season has been worst for both characters in my book.  I doubt Dabb can do anything that is strong unless it happens by accident.  But everything I've seen so far; has just proved Jensen correct that this will not be a strong ending for Supernatural.  But since I expect lame...well I do have more tolerance than if I was sooooo excited for the ending.

Reichenbach is a great episode. I remain convinced Carver ghost wrote most of it. Dabb doesn't have greatness in him.

[ILoveReading]

So if I'm understanding this correctly..

Dabb took Jared out to dinner to talk about his leadership arc. 

Dabb talked to Alex about his role as Jack and the direction his character would take.

Berens talked to Misha about the direction of his character

But Jensen seems like he was once again left out.  The level of disrespect at this point has to be personal.  There is no other satisfactory explanation.

[FlickChick]

8 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

So if I'm understanding this correctly..

Dabb took Jared out to dinner to talk about his leadership arc. 

Dabb talked to Alex about his role as Jack and the direction his character would take.

Berens talked to Misha about the direction of his character

But Jensen seems like he was once again left out.  The level of disrespect at this point has to be personal.  There is no other satisfactory explanation.

I agree and see my comment I just posted at the end of "Despair" thread.

[Castiels Cat]

16 hours ago, FlickChick said:

I agree and see my comment I just posted at the end of "Despair" thread.

Sam's leadership arc can be summed up as EVERYBODY DIES.

[gonzosgirrl]

Saw this brought up on another site. Maybe Dabb heard/saw this, maybe he didn't. My money is on the former, and yet one more way that he screwed over Jensen.

 

 

What the S.W. and D.W. initials meant to Jensen (starts around 7:09), and iconic things being messed with. And of course Dabb goes out of his way to make sure this happens.

[Casseiopeia]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

What the S.W. and D.W. initials meant to Jensen (starts around 7:09), and iconic things being messed with. And of course Dabb goes out of his way to make sure this happens.

I remember watching that convention. It not only meant something to Jensen it meant a something to a lot of fans ever since we first saw those initials in the Impala. Fan's got tattoos and made art and wrote fan fiction about those initials. 

Dabb destroyed the show in every possible way.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Casseiopeia

[Castiels Cat]

On 11/14/2020 at 1:12 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Saw this brought up on another site. Maybe Dabb heard/saw this, maybe he didn't. My money is on the former, and yet one more way that he screwed over Jensen.

 

 

What the S.W. and D.W. initials meant to Jensen (starts around 7:09), and iconic things being messed with. And of course Dabb goes out of his way to make sure this happens.

Jensen talks about being upset about iconic things being messed with?

[gonzosgirrl]

35 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Jensen talks about being upset about iconic things being messed with?

Not really. He said that it happened and will probably happen some more. He didn't seem upset about it, just said that the symbolism of the initials meant something to him. It's best to listen for yourself.

[Katy M]

When Jared said Cas wasn't a Winchester, I thought he was going to be murdered.  Geesh guys.  No, he's not a Winchester.  That's just a fact.

[Myrelle]

22 minutes ago, Katy M said:

When Jared said Cas wasn't a Winchester, I thought he was going to be murdered.  Geesh guys.  No, he's not a Winchester.  That's just a fact.

And well, at least they didn't go with the initials CW-because yeah, that's the network...🙄

And his name is not Castiel Winchester, FFS; just like the Nougatbaby's wasn't either.

Personally, I hate that they added any initials, even the Ice Queen's.

Fuck Dabb sideways x 10 for all of it.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

And well, at least they didn't go with the initials CW-because yeah, that's the network...🙄

And his name is not Castiel Winchester, FFS; just like the Nougatbaby's wasn't either.

Personally, I hate that they added any initials, even the Ice Queen's.

Fuck Dabb sideways x 10 for all of it.

 

I don't imagine that it was coincidence that both Castiel and especially Jack's names are bolder either of Dean or Sam's. And it's not about age, the letters are wider and deeper. Seriously, sideways and repeatedly.

[ahrtee]

They also got full names,  not initials.   Didn't even give Jack his last name, which he had been using all along, so he could have had initials,  unlike cas.

[Myrelle]

47 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't imagine that it was coincidence that both Castiel and especially Jack's names are bolder either of Dean or Sam's. And it's not about age, the letters are wider and deeper. Seriously, sideways and repeatedly.

 

41 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

They also got full names,  not initials.   Didn't even give Jack his last name, which he had been using all along, so he could have had initials,  unlike cas.

🤬 🤬

 

[Katy M]

44 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

They also got full names,  not initials.   Didn't even give Jack his last name, which he had been using all along, so he could have had initials,  unlike cas.

And, JK might have been appropriate for the end of that episode.  Cas could have used CA.  Castiel the Angel.

[Casseiopeia]

 If any other initial should have been added it was John's. It was because of John that the brothers set out on their journey. If they hadn't butchered Mary I wouldn't have minded her name as long as they were adding them.