S07.E12: Feeding A Need

[Yours Truly]

8 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

I'm not sure I understand, but what I'm saying is that Kim had extremely mature expectations placed upon her at a very young age from a woman who was living vicariously through her daughter, and who, by Kyle's own admission, placed adult expectations on both of them, and that and all that it implies contributes to her issues and their relationship dynamics today.

Great points and I agree, but there's this real taboo associated with making even the slightest hinting of claims that Kim took care of the family with her child star paycheck in any way shape or form and that her child star years had absolutely nothing to do with her addictions now.

I personally think what you stated above makes perfect sense and is a rather logical progression of what went down in that family dynamic up to present days but for some reason many other theories get extremely tripped up on the pretty convincing opinion you've just provided.

However, the need to debunk this conclusion is strong and I never understand why...

Edited February 24, 2017 by Yours Truly

[TattleTeeny]

I wonder if Lisa Rinna is lumping any kind of help in with real-deal "enabling" -- like, does she think paying for, say, Kim's kids' groceries or school supplies is the same as running out to pick up Kim's drink of choice so that she doesn't drive, like a poster above mentioned having to make a tough decision to do (and I am not judging at all, man--I totally understand that conundrum) or inviting Kim to dinner and serving wine at the table? 

Edited February 24, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[Juliegirlj]

The only "right" way to get sober is to not drink alcohol. If AA helps someone, then great. However it is not the only way. 

[WireWrap]

11 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

I'm not sure I understand, but what I'm saying is that Kim had extremely mature expectations placed upon her at a very young age from a woman who was living vicariously through her daughter, and who, by Kyle's own admission, placed adult expectations on both of them, and that and all that it implies contributes to her issues and their relationship dynamics today.

Yes, Kim's/Kyle's mother was a piece of work and took her kids to places kids should not be at, bars/adult parties. I also agree that Big Kathy lived vicariously through her daughters, not just Kim but Kyle as well and even Kathy to a lesser extent. She loved having 2 working child actors and all the perks that came with it. What she didn't do though is live off of their paychecks. Yes, she got a % of their earnings, as all manger parents do, but she didn't take the bulk of it to support all of them. Kim and Kyle's dad worked a high paying job that supported the family and even after they separated/divorced, he kept paying the bills for them. For some reason, people forget that Kyle was also a successful child actress as well and made good money herself.

Kim started acting when she was 6 years old, Kyle at 5 years old and both have comparable child acting careers behind them, Kyle slightly less than Kim but just slightly. Both Kathy and Kim modeled as babies/toddlers when the family still lived in NY. Kyle wasn't born until they moved to BH/Cali.

[Stinamaia]

Even though the mother may not have taken any more than was due a manager, Kim and Kyle were a source of income for her, and I'm sure Kim and Kyle were aware of that fact.  The point is, I think, that the mother did not model boundaries with her children and that makes it harder for them to set boundaries in their lives.  Of course, this can happen even if the child isn't a wage earner. Sometimes, a child is made an emotional crutch for a  parent. Sometimes lack of boundaries in a family leads to sexual abuse that goes unbelieved or unaddressed.  Many times addiction is a family problem even if only one person is an addict.  It's all so messy and secrets as well as pretense are a part of it.   I wish the best for the family.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Stinamaia

[nexxie]

Rinna said during her meltdown that she was tired of dealing with sick people - who has she been dealing with? (Sorry if I missed this discussion.)

[zoeysmom]

3 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

Even though the mother may not have taken any more than was due a manager, Kim and Kyle were a source of income for her, and I'm sure Kim and Kyle were aware of that fact.  The point is, I think, that the mother did not model boundaries with her children and that makes it harder for them to set boundaries in their lives.  Of course, this can happen even if the child isn't a wage earner. Sometimes, a child is made an emotional crutch for a  parent. Sometimes lack of boundaries in a family leads to sexual abuse that goes unbeliever or addressed.  Many times addiction is a family problem even if only one person is an addict.  It's all so messy and secrets as well as pretense are a part of it.   I wish the best for the family.

What I have taken away from Kyle's comments on the show regarding Mom, is Kim was her mother's favorite, as they were similar, on her deathbed Mom tasked Kyle with looking after Kim who at the time had issues with alcohol and money, Mom didn't want her home sold for 10 years because she didn't want to be forgotten.  Kyle after paying off her sisters sold the home after 10 years.  Kim and her children were always welcome to use the home.  Kim and her children moved to the desert to take care of Kathy and for Kathy (who bought Kim a house, not the goddamn house) to "help" Kim and her kids.  Growing up in California, the Richards' sisters had their maternal grandmother living with them.

The crucial eye of Kim and Kyle's mother and their upbringing had little to do with Kim or Kyle it came about because of Paris Hilton. 

[athousandclowns]

22 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

I used to be quite heavy and had a very small friend who wore a zero/2.   I said something about her being skinny or made a comment when she complained about her pants being too tight and she opened my eyes to this.  She said it doesn't matter what size your pants are when they get too tight and how she would never fat shame anyone so why people feel free to comment when someone is perceived as too skinny is mind boggling.  I stopped and thought about it and agreed.  Then I lost a ton of weight and had my own experience with people telling me I was too skinny.  It IS just as bad.  The only comment I will make to someone is they look fabulous.  Or if we are super close, tell them if asked if something is flattering.  But never unsolicited comments.  I am sorry people can be insensitive!

Exactly what I wasn't thinking! I had a lifetime of people telling me I was too thin/skinny. I hated it and didn't wear shorts till I was 30 or never sleeveless but would never say to someone's face you would be so pretty if you lost weight.  I wanted to gain weight it's hard to eat when you are not hungry.  This women are all about you look beautiful/ fabulous/ gorgeous  every single time they see each other. Exhausting. 

[TattleTeeny]

20 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

Now that we've retracted our claws (I hope you think that's funny....I truly meant it as a joke), you just said EXACTLY what the difference is, in my mind (my TRUTH-ha ha), between helping out (an act of kindness) and helping someone not hit bottom today (enabling).

Buying someone groceries could be an act of kindness. Buying a drunk who spent their grocery money on booze and are now starving could be enabling. Taking your sister's kids and babysitting so she can have a break could be an act of kindness. Taking your actively addicted sister's kids because she wants to go out and get drunk, or because she can't afford to help them because she spent her money on drugs/alcohol may or may not be enabling. Taking your sister's kids because she'd leave them alone anyway for the night and they're too young could still be enabling. Taking your sister's kids because she'd leave them alone anyway for the night and they're too young and calling the police/CPS could be an act of kindness. Is it a pattern? Has it happened before? Has she expressed the desire to not do these things but continues to do them? Does that make sense? That's what I mean by enabling, if you can make heads or tails of it. It's some tricky shit! :-)

That said, Lisa Rinna is putting on a freaking lunatic act and Eden appears to have an extremely heavy heart. Sad clowns at the whackball circus.

It's definitely tricky. But, yeah--sort of along the lines of, say, not giving the homeless guy 10 bucks in cash but instead grabbing a second order when you pick up lunch (I am not assuming all homeless are addicts, it was just the quickest example I could think of), or even sneakily checking to see if he needs a blanket. It's a sliding scale kind of thing; maybe it's all enabling but caring for your sister's kids becomes a higher priority than not being labeled an enabler. Plus, I would think that some types of helping are part of being an addict's support system (ideally during the time that the addict is actively seeking help or taking steps).

No worries; we're good.

[zoeysmom]

12 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Rinna said during her meltdown that she was tired of dealing with sick people - who has she been dealing with? (Sorry if I missed this discussion.)

I think sick people were probably tired of dealing with Lisa Rinna and her intrusiveness.  She didn't seem to have much time for her dying father, her mother had a stroke (and the first year was filmed calling Rinna on her birthday and the next year when Kathryn mentioned her mom had called Rinna took the opportunity to mention her mom wasn't capable anymore), she got way too involved in assessing Yolanda and her ailments, she has spent way too much energy and time wanting to talk about addiction.  I am guessing since she claims that her husband had members of his family that died of chronic drinking, she may have meant them.  I am guessing Harry's father probably was deceased before Rinna was ever in the picture.  (Harry's dad was born in 1905.)

Harry said something interesting to Rinna, that she need to let Kim work on her program.  It sounded to me like he somehow was asserting that Rinna was a part of Kim's recovery process.  What part of stop talking about it and me do Rinna and seemingly Harry not understand?  Kim has given Rinna absolute permission to not be a part of her life drunk or sober.  Maybe bringing Eden to Kyle is what Rinna feels is dealing with sick people.

At this point, collectively, I think the smart RHs are not claiming a great deal of competence or expertise in the field of addiction and alcoholism. Then of course there is Eden, who knows it all. I believe deferring to Eden is a huge mistake, it is like someone who really wants to serve on jury duty, comes off as a hidden agenda.  Seems she is making it more about her than anything else.   I agree there is some alleged lack of awareness, which I take may have more to do with not breaching another's confidence.  The word anonymous is part of AA.  If Kim claims it works for her not to share the details of her recovery, who has any right to dispute Kim's request.

[WireWrap]

7 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

Just out of curiosity...have any of you read 'House of Hilton'? It sheds some light on the family dynamics. I don't recall, as I said, the dollars and cents, and granted it's third and fourth party information, but it's quite interesting.....

Yes, I have read it, several times. Without a doubt, Big Kathy was a piece of work and the Richard household was chaotic at best but all 3 daughters love their mom. I am sure that how Kathy/Kim/Kyle were raised had a big influence on them well into adulthood. That said, at some point you have to take the bull by the horns and decide what you want in life for yourself, especially when you have kids. Something I don't think Kim ever did or even wanted to do and that is on Kim, no one else. 

[Yours Truly]

31 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

Interesting info!! But just to note, I never said she supported the family, or that I thought that supporting the family drove her to drink. That was a statement made by another poster in response to my post :-)

My point and opinion in my post was about her upbringing and how it affects her relationships, and that her mother was a shrew. Not who contributed more/supported the family. Honestly, I don't know anything about the dollars and cents of it, just the behaviors and relationships with her Mom and Sisters, which I do believe affect her today,  if that makes sense? In fact, you just shared more info about the money part than I ever knew!! LOL!

Told ya..

Well you did mention "Kim supporting the family before Kyle could even speak" in your original post and I was working with the assumption that that particular sentiment wouldn't have gone without a challenge and therefore prompted my post (which in turn, partially prompted WireWraps response) but it still stands that mentioning Kim's financial contribution to the family doesn't go unnoticed or unchallenged in some way shape or form. LOL..

28 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

Even though the mother may not have taken any more than was due a manager, Kim and Kyle were a source of income for her, and I'm sure Kim and Kyle were aware of that fact.  The point is, I think, that the mother did not model boundaries with her children and that makes it harder for them to set boundaries in their lives.  Of course, this can happen even if the child isn't a wage earner. Sometimes, a child is made an emotional crutch for a  parent. Sometimes lack of boundaries in a family leads to sexual abuse that goes unbelieved or unaddressed.  Many times addiction is a family problem even if only one person is an addict.  It's all so messy and secrets as well as pretense are a part of it.   I wish the best for the family.

Agreed.

To me, there is so much that goes into that family dynamic actively trying to compartmentalize and separate what went on in earlier years for fear that accountability will be shifted away from Kim seems like unnecessary mental gymnastics. Acknowledging a long history of dysfunction in the Richards family doesn't mean anyone is trying to absolve Kim. It just means that people have decided to factor in a slew of events into their opinion of the Richards sisters today and their on going battle with the demons of addiction.

[Yours Truly]

38 minutes ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

Truly. I certainly didn't make any money for my Mother LOL but the poor boundaries that you mentioned are SO spot on. Boundaries and discipline and choices are terribly important. They give you a sense of self, which I STILL struggle with. Hell, I probably always will. You said it better than I did, this was my whole point. The culture that Mom created, not the actual semantics of money.

Sorry I contributed to the point being lost (although all I pointed out was that the money part would surely swallow your very valid reasoning)

The culture they were subjected to absolutely contributed to how hey handle life as a whole. That's pretty much the basic life recipe of the parent/child relationship.  I think a lot of those underlying details is what consists of the meat of the issue but semantics do tend to get in the way. (Which is where my original post was meant to point out.) LOL

;-)

[Carolina Girl]

May have some insight into Ken and Lisa's emotional scene.  My DTV says that next week they visit their new Dog Rescue shelter, and from the interior it looks like that's where they might be.  Ken might have gone upstairs and saw the dreadful condition of one of the poor animals.  If that's so, I'm going to lay in a supply of tissues.  Because nothing but nothing pisses me off more than seeing what humans will do to a defenseless animal that only wants to be loved and to love back.  

[Wings]

8 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

May have some insight into Ken and Lisa's emotional scene.  My DTV says that next week they visit their new Dog Rescue shelter, and from the interior it looks like that's where they might be.  Ken might have gone upstairs and saw the dreadful condition of one of the poor animals.  If that's so, I'm going to lay in a supply of tissues.  Because nothing but nothing pisses me off more than seeing what humans will do to a defenseless animal that only wants to be loved and to love back.  

Bingo.  This is it!  Good detective work.   I worked in dog rescue for many years in FL and will continue here when I find the right fit for me.  I have cried many tears over the years.  Nothing gets to me more.  Nothing.  I   I also cry tears of joy when a dog finds their forever home.  It amazes me how the dog picks you without you even knowing it so many times, so many.  I have some very funny stories about this. 

[FairyDusted]

Then walk on down to small talk @wings707! Ya know how we like the personal stories!

[zoeysmom]

I am sensing that Eden has a very stubborn streak in her and is determined to haul Kim off and have a one on one with her.  From what Kim has been tweeting, Eden is going to be very disappointed in the level of connection Kim had with her sister.  Eden phrases things in such a way that it seems Kim was somehow close to Catya, instead of the reality they worked together on a film for thirty days.  Kim denies ever having met Eden until filming RHOBH.  It kind of reminds me of when Brandi, after slapping LVP, was so upset that LVP wasn't wanting updates on her father's health.  LVP was a bit curt and simply mentioned she had met him for just a few minutes. 

Eden's frustration with not being able to assert herself in Kim's recovery has been transferred to an extreme and unfounded dislike of Kyle.  Had Eden watched past seasons, she would realize Kim is very guarded in who she interacts.  Kim is the one who wants to pick people on her team for Game Night.  Attacking Kyle is probably not going to make Kim run to Eden.  

[zoeysmom]

A snapshot of Kyle's childhood-age 11.  Kathy was Kathy Hilton at the time of this photo:

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

Sorry I contributed to the point being lost (although all I pointed out was that the money part would surely swallow your very valid reasoning)

The culture they were subjected to absolutely contributed to how hey handle life as a whole. That's pretty much the basic life recipe of the parent/child relationship.  I think a lot of those underlying details is what consists of the meat of the issue but semantics do tend to get in the way. (Which is where my original post was meant to point out.) LOL

;-)

So many buy into the "Kim supported her whole family with her acting paychecks" notion even though that is false, which is why I try I post the correct info. No one here has disputed that the Richard's family was messed up. Big Kathy did leave a lasting impression on their lives but, to keep blaming her for a 50+ year old woman's addictions at this stage isn't the truth either.

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

Bingo.  This is it!  Good detective work.   I worked in dog rescue for many years in FL and will continue here when I find the right fit for me.  I have cried many tears over the years.  Nothing gets to me more.  Nothing.  I   I also cry tears of joy when a dog finds their forever home.  It amazes me how the dog picks you without you even knowing it so many times, so many.  I have some very funny stories about this. 

The best dog I ever had was a German Shepherd named Rocky that we got from the Solano County Animal Shelter.  I fell in love the moment I saw him and he was the finest most loving animal ever.  I will only get my pets from shelters.  Because they know you saved them they know you picked them and they return that love 100 fold.  And I have to stop now because my eyes are welling up.....

[Yours Truly]

44 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

So many buy into the "Kim supported her whole family with her acting paychecks" notion even though that is false, which is why I try I post the correct info. No one here has disputed that the Richard's family was messed up. Big Kathy did leave a lasting impression on their lives but, to keep blaming her for a 50+ year old woman's addictions at this stage isn't the truth either.

Yeah, but when someone includes in their opinion that they feel her contributions to the family financially at such a young age may have contributed to her issues as an adult there's no need to turn it into a completely different debate. Pointing out how a mother/ daughter dynamic plays a role in how someone has turned out as a person and the issues they struggle with also does not need debunking. I don't "buy into" anything. I use my own very intelligent reasoning skills based on life experience and information I come across from various outlets. To suggest that facts aren't truth just because those facts aren't used to form the same conclusions as others is inaccurate.

It's a fact that Kim was a child star

It's a fact that her money contributed to the luxurious lifestyle they led

It's a fact that Kathy's parenting wasn't the most responsible

It's a fact that they were introduced to a very unhealthy lifestyle at a very young age.

These are very relevant details that have a place in opinions made about Kim's issues. Just because some conclusions differ using the same facts don't mean there's something to correct or claim to be false.

Many details molded Kim into the person she is today, issues and all, and that is what the bottom line is. I mean there really is no denying it. Trying to dismiss this detail or that detail as inconsequential to who Kim Richards turned out to be doesn't make sense to me when we all know we are the products of our life experiences that start all the way back from childhood. Now that is the fact to trump all facts.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Yours Truly

[CatMomma]

8 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Oh my goodness, I feel so opposite about this; I was not in the "for the most part" category--and I actually do already have oddly long legs (yet I am a short person; ugh, it's so stupid), which were far scrawnier in the thigh region way back when this cut was a thing. I also had zero butt at that time. And still when I see pictures of myself then, I think that the bathing suit's cut made me look disproportionately big in those spots! Eh, maybe the style isn't for all the bodies, or is just better on Kyle's body type because she looks fine to me in the photo (despite the bathing suit). Maybe it canceled out my default "long, lean legs" (which, unfortunately, I did not appreciate back then and referred to as "chicken sticks"!). 

ETA: This is probably also why anything high-waisted makes me look like my head is growing out of my waist.

This is soooo off topic, but I have to agree with you!  I remember when this cut became big, It was supposed to make your legs look long and, for women with no hips, give the illusion of hips and a curved waste. 

Well, as a long legged skinny girl with no hips and no curved waste, it made me look like an even more skinny legged girl with....no hips. Plus, my torso looked even more ridiculously short. Don't get me started on the flat ass.  I was in high school when the trend started, so I was even more self conscious.

To this day, I don't tuck in my shirt, because I always think I look like Steve Urkel.

Now, the tangent.....

Which is why it always bothers me when women are criticized for their body.  Most women have body image issues, whether it be too big, too skinny, legs too long, legs too short, no ass, too much ass...I could go on. I am very skinny. I'm no fan of Lisa Rinna, but just because she talks about being careful about what she eats doesn't mean she doesn't eat. It means she is careful about what she eats, which someone over the age of 40 should worry about. Or, she may starve herself. Who knows? But just because she is very thin (and has ALWAYS been thin) doesn't automatically point to an eating disorder. Just like pointing to someone overweight doesn't mean they only eat fried foods and can't control themselves.

[StevieRocks]

On 2/21/2017 at 10:47 PM, nexxie said:

Tom & Erika really do seem to have a special arrangement - friends with private planes and other benefits.

Right?--I realize that Erika Jayne was trying desperately to sound like a wealthy socialite with that plane comment, but, for the life of me, I can't help but see her as the little white trash skank giving knobbers in the trailer park for an RC cola and a moon pie. 

[zoeysmom]

Just now, Yours Truly said:

Yeah, but when someone includes in their opinion that they feel her contributions to the family financially at such a young age may have contributed to her issues as an adult there's no need to turn it into a completely different debate. Pointing out how a mother/ daughter dynamic plays a role in how someone has turned out as a person and the issues they struggle with also does not need debunking. I don't "buy into" anything. I use my own very intelligent reasoning skills based on life experience and information I come across from various outlets. To suggest that facts aren't truth just because those facts aren't used to form the same conclusions as others is inaccurate.

It's a fact that Kim was a child star

It's a fact that her money contributed to the healthy lifestyle they led

It's a fact that Kathy's parenting wasn't the most responsible

It's a fact that they were introduced to a very unhealthy lifestyle at a very young age.

These are very relevant details that have a place in opinions made about Kim's issues. Just because some conclusions differ using the same facts don't mean there's something to correct or claim to be false.

Many details molded Kim into the person she is today and that is what the bottom line is. I mean there really is no denying it.

I am of the opinion that any parent who has a child with a talent or skill requires a great deal of discipline on the part of the parent to keep the child on track.  Be it an ice skater who has to go to the rink at 5 am, or a gymnast that trains hours a day, the parents are a crucial part in the child's pursuit.  Kim has always said she enjoyed being in the movies and TV.  She certainly excelled at it from an early age. 

I can't say that Kathy Richards parenting wasn't the most responsible, she provided her children with a home and the necessities in life and I for one find it common sense if I am the kid I want to enjoy some of the fruits of my labor in real time.  That means I get the cutest most fashionable clothes, I get to take trips back to NY to see family and friends, and even enjoy a riding to work in a Seville.

I would agree about the unhealthy lifestyle but only as far as it goes to smoking.  Kathy, Kathy Hilton and Kim are or were all smokers.  Never good and the two Dugan uncles both died of lung cancer.  I kind of like the idea that Grandma Dugan came out and lived with her daughter and helped with the three grandchildren.

Family dysfunction be it through divorce, financial hardships, emotional issues is more common than uncommon.  Maybe it is just me, but I feel Kim's voice isn't heard when she talks about when she started abusing alcohol.  She has said there were some very big triggers for her, the divorce from her second husband and the death of her fiancé were the genesis of her unhealthy relationship with alcohol.  Kim has never said she got into using, let alone abusing while working in Hollywood.  In fact it is one of the reasons her sisters and adult children wanted her to do the show, it would require accountability.  I do not recall reading where Kim or her mother were ever a problem on the set, Kim missed calls, or was fired. 

There is no doubt everyday of our lives contributes to the person we become.  I just find it overly simplistic to keep beating the dead horse that is Kathy Richards.  I will bring it around to Eden Sassoon, her assumption that someone in the family was an alcoholic and that is somehow where Kim's alcoholism comes from.   It is close minded way of thinking. 

[zoeysmom]

10 minutes ago, CatMomma said:

This is soooo off topic, but I have to agree with you!  I remember when this cut became big, It was supposed to make your legs look long and, for women with no hips, give the illusion of hips and a curved waste. 

Well, as a long legged skinny girl with no hips and no curved waste, it made me look like an even more skinny legged girl with....no hips. Plus, my torso looked even more ridiculously short. Don't get me started on the flat ass.  I was in high school when the trend started, so I was even more self conscious.

To this day, I don't tuck in my shirt, because I always think I look like Steve Urkel.

Now, the tangent.....

Which is why it always bothers me when women are criticized for their body.  Most women have body image issues, whether it be too big, too skinny, legs too long, legs too short, no ass, too much ass...I could go on. I am very skinny. I'm no fan of Lisa Rinna, but just because she talks about being careful about what she eats doesn't mean she doesn't eat. It means she is careful about what she eats, which someone over the age of 40 should worry about. Or, she may starve herself. Who knows? But just because she is very thin (and has ALWAYS been thin) doesn't automatically point to an eating disorder. Just like pointing to someone overweight doesn't mean they only eat fried foods and can't control themselves.

I wore the stupid bathing suit I believe the brand was Body Glove.  I have freakishly long legs and am short waisted and never gave any thought about my butt because back in the day big hips were really not an asset.  I also wore the Hanes high cut underwear.  I love your Steve Urkel comment, because I always thought I looked liked Fred Mertz.  Urkel is far more current.  I think the jean brand was Zena with the really high waist and pleated front, often worn with a crop top?

I have often expressed my displeasure with how these women bodies get picked apart.  Kyle Richards=back fat. However, when it comes to Rinna, who I have stated looks really good in most everything, she kind of invites comments by posting nude photos, "look at me in a bikini at 53" photos, the ridiculous lets have a few strands of zucchini and call it a meal routine, her kids talking about Medford, Oregon being full of chub-chubs.  I don't like the look of obvious implants.  Yolanda carried hers off for years always attractive.  BH is just chock full of gorgeous women, and handsome husbands more so than any other franchise.  Currently, I rate the always gorgeous Camille, Yolanda and Dorit as having stellar bodies and great legs.   Mostly I suffer from upper arm envy of these women.  They all seem to be able to wear sleeveless at any age. 

As to the men getting a pass, what about PK?  So many comments about his physical unattractiveness.  There is plenty to pick apart about PK other than his looks. 

[notnowimbusy]

Growing up my father drank and my mother would rage against it - blaming his drinking on all their problems.  He would quit, but when she was having a dinner party, or something, and wanted him to be "charming", she would encourage him to have a drink!  Mixed messages.   They never got along, but he found her more tolerable after a couple of drinks.  This cycle went on for years.   She was a true enabler.   She would buy and have liquor in the house, have a drink ready for him when he came home , then complain when he did!  The day they got a divorce my father quit drinking and never took another drink the rest of his life.  At times I think he did it just to piss her off.    Looking back I honestly think it was more her problem than his.    I don't see Kyle being that kind of enabler.   I think her sister Kathy was too busy, too rich to be bothered to really help Kim - except to throw money at the situation.   Kim has more problems than just alcohol - and those aren't going away just because she's not drinking.  

Eden and Rinna seem to blame alot of their behavior on how they were treated as children.  Eden said her mother "abandoned" her when she was a week old - to go to the Hamptons.  Ok, does she really remember this?  Was she left alone?  I don't think so.  Rinna has said that she blames her big mouth on always being told to "shush".   Hell, if she was as big a loud mouth as she is now, can you blame them?    They are both always seeking acceptance.   Kim on the other hand is so full of herself, she could care less if she's accepted or not.  In fact, she thinks it's up to her to accept someone.  

[Yours Truly]

4 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I am of the opinion that any parent who has a child with a talent or skill requires a great deal of discipline on the part of the parent to keep the child on track.  Be it an ice skater who has to go to the rink at 5 am, or a gymnast that trains hours a day, the parents are a crucial part in the child's pursuit.  Kim has always said she enjoyed being in the movies and TV.  She certainly excelled at it from an early age. 

I can't say that Kathy Richards parenting wasn't the most responsible, she provided her children with a home and the necessities in life and I for one find it common sense if I am the kid I want to enjoy some of the fruits of my labor in real time.  That means I get the cutest most fashionable clothes, I get to take trips back to NY to see family and friends, and even enjoy a riding to work in a Seville.

I would agree about the unhealthy lifestyle but only as far as it goes to smoking.  Kathy, Kathy Hilton and Kim are or were all smokers.  Never good and the two Dugan uncles both died of lung cancer.  I kind of like the idea that Grandma Dugan came out and lived with her daughter and helped with the three grandchildren.

Family dysfunction be it through divorce, financial hardships, emotional issues is more common than uncommon.  Maybe it is just me, but I feel Kim's voice isn't heard when she talks about when she started abusing alcohol.  She has said there were some very big triggers for her, the divorce from her second husband and the death of her fiancé were the genesis of her unhealthy relationship with alcohol.  Kim has never said she got into using, let alone abusing while working in Hollywood.  In fact it is one of the reasons her sisters and adult children wanted her to do the show, it would require accountability.  I do not recall reading where Kim or her mother were ever a problem on the set, Kim missed calls, or was fired. 

There is no doubt everyday of our lives contributes to the person we become.  I just find it overly simplistic to keep beating the dead horse that is Kathy Richards.  I will bring it around to Eden Sassoon, her assumption that someone in the family was an alcoholic and that is somehow where Kim's alcoholism comes from.   It is close minded way of thinking. 

I think other people beat the dead horse because they find the need to challenge that there are those of us who find a connection between Kim's struggles and her mother, child star days as well as information shared by both Kim and Kyle. Some find a few of these details as throw away tid bits much ado about nothing but some feel it sets the foundation. Nothing wrong or simplistic about that. Kyle outlined some VERY unhealthy parenting methods of Kathy's so smoking being the only unhealthy thing introduced falls a bit flat for me.  Again, this need to dismiss certain details as inconsequential when drawing an opinion baffles me.

Crucial components of a person's ability to navigate through life come from how healthy they develop. Coping, decision making, trial and error in social atmospheres. Guidance, acceptance.... the list goes on and on. One thing leads to another set of life skills crucial to surviving as an adult. How well was Kim Richards equipped to set off on this game of life? That's what I contemplate. I feel there were oversights understandably so. It was a different time back then and they were living in the fast lane. Not here to stomp on the woman's grave or anything but it is what it is.

What I debated is that a lot of wrenches found their way into the developmental process by way of Kathy Hilton and her ways. I am not big on blaming mom. No way no how but I also like to have a balanced perspective. It's all details and factors to me.  I do listen and there were some key details in the first season that really struck me.  Things Kim said, how she interacted with Kyle. How Kyle behaved etc. etc.  I've collected a lot of tid bits from the horses' mouths over the seasons and combined it really does paint a certain kind of picture to me.

I don't know why Kim not specifically admitting to participating in drugs and alcohol during her showbiz days is considered to mean that she wasn't boozing it up or partying back then.  I think its more of a stretch to assume she didn't have a drink until her heartbreaking divorce and death of a fiance as if things of that nature are the ONLY things that makes sense for someone to have a drink.

[WireWrap]

44 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Yeah, but when someone includes in their opinion that they feel her contributions to the family financially at such a young age may have contributed to her issues as an adult there's no need to turn it into a completely different debate. Pointing out how a mother/ daughter dynamic plays a role in how someone has turned out as a person and the issues they struggle with also does not need debunking. I don't "buy into" anything. I use my own very intelligent reasoning skills based on life experience and information I come across from various outlets. To suggest that facts aren't truth just because those facts aren't used to form the same conclusions as others is inaccurate.

It's a fact that Kim was a child star

It's a fact that her money contributed to the luxurious lifestyle they led

It's a fact that Kathy's parenting wasn't the most responsible

It's a fact that they were introduced to a very unhealthy lifestyle at a very young age.

These are very relevant details that have a place in opinions made about Kim's issues. Just because some conclusions differ using the same facts don't mean there's something to correct or claim to be false.

Many details molded Kim into the person she is today, issues and all, and that is what the bottom line is. I mean there really is no denying it. Trying to dismiss this detail or that detail as inconsequential to who Kim Richards turned out to be doesn't make sense to me when we all know we are the products of our life experiences that start all the way back from childhood. Now that is the fact to trump all facts.

My initial post was correcting the notion that the Richard's family lived large off of Kim's acting paychecks, which is not true at all. Ken Richards was an Executive, making very good money, both before and after the move to BH, so much so that he built their BH house well before Kim got into acting. I also stated that the Richards home life was "messed up". I just don't believe that Kim's issues started while she was at home or that they caused her to become an addict. Kyle had the same pressure on her as Kim did, so did Kathy for that matter but neither one have/had addiction problems that we have heard about. So, it is equally possible that something triggered Kim's alcohol abuse that had nothing to do with her childhood or acting. If we go by what Taylor said, Kim has had alcohol problems for 30 years, which means it started in her 20's, after she left home, after she married Monty. Maybe Monty's love of partying is what lead her into her lifelong battle with alcohol.

That said, we are once again beating a dead horse, Let's leave that up to idiots like Rinna to do. LOL

[WireWrap]

16 minutes ago, notnowimbusy said:

Growing up my father drank and my mother would rage against it - blaming his drinking on all their problems.  He would quit, but when she was having a dinner party, or something, and wanted him to be "charming", she would encourage him to have a drink!  Mixed messages.   They never got along, but he found her more tolerable after a couple of drinks.  This cycle went on for years.   She was a true enabler.   She would buy and have liquor in the house, have a drink ready for him when he came home , then complain when he did!  The day they got a divorce my father quit drinking and never took another drink the rest of his life.  At times I think he did it just to piss her off.    Looking back I honestly think it was more her problem than his.    I don't see Kyle being that kind of enabler.   I think her sister Kathy was too busy, too rich to be bothered to really help Kim - except to throw money at the situation.   Kim has more problems than just alcohol - and those aren't going away just because she's not drinking.  

Eden and Rinna seem to blame alot of their behavior on how they were treated as children.  Eden said her mother "abandoned" her when she was a week old - to go to the Hamptons.  Ok, does she really remember this?  Was she left alone?  I don't think so.  Rinna has said that she blames her big mouth on always being told to "shush".   Hell, if she was as big a loud mouth as she is now, can you blame them?    They are both always seeking acceptance.   Kim on the other hand is so full of herself, she could care less if she's accepted or not.  In fact, she thinks it's up to her to accept someone.  

Very, very true! LOL

[lololol]

9 hours ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

Yah, sorry but she looks amazing in that pic lol! If that's "really big", I better call the crane company over to air-lift my ass outta the house!

She doesn't look AMAZING - big thighs are NOT attractive.

[hoodooznoodooz]

9 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, Kim's/Kyle's mother was a piece of work and took her kids to places kids should not be at, bars/adult parties. I also agree that Big Kathy lived vicariously through her daughters, not just Kim but Kyle as well and even Kathy to a lesser extent. She loved having 2 working child actors and all the perks that came with it. What she didn't do though is live off of their paychecks. Yes, she got a % of their earnings, as all manger parents do, but she didn't take the bulk of it to support all of them. Kim and Kyle's dad worked a high paying job that supported the family and even after they separated/divorced, he kept paying the bills for them. For some reason, people forget that Kyle was also a successful child actress as well and made good money herself.

Kim started acting when she was 6 years old, Kyle at 5 years old and both have comparable child acting careers behind them, Kyle slightly less than Kim but just slightly. Both Kathy and Kim modeled as babies/toddlers when the family still lived in NY. Kyle wasn't born until they moved to BH/Cali.

I watched some of Tuff Turf last week. In my opinion, Kim's acting was pretty bad. Did most people consider her talented or was she cast often for her appearance?

Also, I rewatched the limo scene with Kim and Rinna. Kim was weird, but I don't understand why Rinna thought Kim was dangerous. Thoughts?

[WireWrap]

45 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I watched some of Tuff Turf last week. In my opinion, Kim's acting was pretty bad. Did most people consider her talented or was she cast often for her appearance?

Also, I rewatched the limo scene with Kim and Rinna. Kim was weird, but I don't understand why Rinna thought Kim was dangerous. Thoughts?

As a child, she was good, as a young adult, not so good. She did really well in Black Snake Mambo but she was playing an addict mom (so a part she really understood/was living).

Kim was kicking the back of the front seat (hard), it looked like she also tried to kick Rinna a couple of times, and she was threatening Rinna during that limo ride. One second she was nice, playing/goofing around then all of a sudden, she was aggressive both physically and verbally.

[Yours Truly]

5 hours ago, WireWrap said:

My initial post was correcting the notion that the Richard's family lived large off of Kim's acting paychecks, which is not true at all. Ken Richards was an Executive, making very good money, both before and after the move to BH, so much so that he built their BH house well before Kim got into acting. I also stated that the Richards home life was "messed up". I just don't believe that Kim's issues started while she was at home or that they caused her to become an addict. Kyle had the same pressure on her as Kim did, so did Kathy for that matter but neither one have/had addiction problems that we have heard about. So, it is equally possible that something triggered Kim's alcohol abuse that had nothing to do with her childhood or acting. If we go by what Taylor said, Kim has had alcohol problems for 30 years, which means it started in her 20's, after she left home, after she married Monty. Maybe Monty's love of partying is what lead her into her lifelong battle with alcohol.

That said, we are once again beating a dead horse, Let's leave that up to idiots like Rinna to do. LOL

Correcting the notion? Really? Very authoritive of you. Didn't realize that power was solely in your hands.. interesting.. 

However......... I believe how she started her life and what went on in her childhood had a huge impact in the life she leads today. I use facts of her childhood to surround MY opinion. Facts that may not carry much weight to others but facts none the less and that's all there is to that.. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by Yours Truly

[zoeysmom]

57 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I watched some of Tuff Turf last week. In my opinion, Kim's acting was pretty bad. Did most people consider her talented or was she cast often for her appearance?

Also, I rewatched the limo scene with Kim and Rinna. Kim was weird, but I don't understand why Rinna thought Kim was dangerous. Thoughts?

How was the acting of James Spader and Robert Downey, Jr?  Or more importantly Catya Sassoon?  I think it was one of those coming of age films aimed at a certain audience.  Had Spader and RDJ not gone far it would probably never be a film worth mentioning.   I saw Kim on an episode of Magnum PI and she nailed the part of spoiled young tennis star.  Almost as if she wasn't acting,  she was 18 at the time.

Supposedly Kim kicked Rinna, but since it has never been mentioned again, and Rinna tends to the dramatic, I am wondering other than the annoyance of being around someone high why she would feel in danger.  This is Rinna who uses terms such as, "this close to death", kicking could mean Kim made contact crossing and uncrossing her legs. 

ETA I would think if there was significant threats or bodily contact they would have showed the footage. It reminds of Brandi screaming at Kyle about hitting people.  Upon review Kyle had not hit anybody Brandi came up with some hand movements that bothered her.

Edited February 25, 2017 by zoeysmom

[Yours Truly]

2 hours ago, QuiteContraryMoni said:

Well, I'm not afraid of a challenge, when warranted. However, I didn't feel challenged by @WireWrap's response. Just felt like we were exchanging ideas. It seems like maybe you've been through this, or are somehow acutely aware of challenges with this set of ideas that you presented? Anyway, this is stepping over dollars to pick up nickels. I think we all agree that Kim's upbringing contributes to her current quality of life, which was my original point, that I have now reiterated several times. I think we can move on from the semantics. I have probably over-stated at this point what I meant. I don't understand the attachment to dollars and cents. At 3am on the way to the set every morning, I promise you, neither did Kim.

Don't get it confused.. the dollars and cents aren't my focus either.. I'm more about the dynamic. Just pointed out that for some reason citing Kim's financial contributions tend to spark conversation.. I personally see many other factors in the dysfunction beyond just that one detail. 

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I watched some of Tuff Turf last week. In my opinion, Kim's acting was pretty bad. Did most people consider her talented or was she cast often for her appearance?

Also, I rewatched the limo scene with Kim and Rinna. Kim was weird, but I don't understand why Rinna thought Kim was dangerous. Thoughts?

Yeah I've been wondering the same thing... being extremely uncomfortable is the most I could come up with in that situation.. but apparently LisaR was justified in fearing for her life for some ridiculous reason I still don't understand. <shrug>

Edited February 25, 2017 by Yours Truly

[AndySmith]

Quote

She doesn't look AMAZING - big thighs are NOT attractive

Neither is body shaming...

[zoeysmom]

6 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

 

I don't know why Kim not specifically admitting to participating in drugs and alcohol during her showbiz days is considered to mean that she wasn't boozing it up or partying back then.  I think its more of a stretch to assume she didn't have a drink until her heartbreaking divorce and death of a fiance as if things of that nature are the ONLY things that makes sense for someone to have a drink.

Why would Kim lie and more importantly why is there no commentary of said behavior by others if she was partaking in partying ways back then? Kim has said her relationship with alcohol was minimal in her twenties, not everyone who is an alcoholic starts out drinking out of control.  It would be fairly important from a treatment standpoint to get a fix on when her unhealthy drinking habits started. Many treatment professionals will say the person can get fixed into their emotional development maturity corresponds to the age they started abusing.  When a person pinpoints the age they started abusing alcohol often times it is tied to life events. 

What makes this relevant is Eden is trying to find this commonality in the Sassoons' lives and the Richards' sisters lives.  Comments like, our paths crossed, BH is a small town, on the set, at our home all the time, the addiction started with Kim Richards and RDJ are just examples of the dangers of assuming and in Eden's case trying to find commonality.

Catya dropped out of high school at 14 to go to NY and pursue a modeling career, where she enjoyed some success, she was married when she did "Tuff Turf" at the ripe age of 15.  She went to rehab when she 20 and by 22 she was hitting the road with her mother talking about their addictions and recovery. 

Other than being female, and actresses I see little commonality between Kim and Catya and even less commonality between Kyle and Eden.  They may have grown up in the same zip code but Eden needs to realize that Kim's fame was a result of her own making, not because she had famous parents.  Catya was addicted to drugs, Kim is an alcoholic.  So at least to me it is fairly important to give an accurate drinking history.

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Why would Kim lie and more importantly why is there no commentary of said behavior by others if she was partaking in partying ways back then? Kim has said her relationship with alcohol was minimal in her twenties, not everyone who is an alcoholic starts out drinking out of control.  It would be fairly important from a treatment standpoint to get a fix on when her unhealthy drinking habits started. Many treatment professionals will say the person can get fixed into their emotional development maturity corresponds to the age they started abusing.  When a person pinpoints the age they started abusing alcohol often times it is tied to life events. 

What makes this relevant is Eden is trying to find this commonality in the Sassoons' lives and the Richards' sisters lives.  Comments like, our paths crossed, BH is a small town, on the set, at our home all the time, the addiction started with Kim Richards and RDJ are just examples of the dangers of assuming and in Eden's case trying to find commonality.

Catya dropped out of high school at 14 to go to NY and pursue a modeling career, where she enjoyed some success, she was married when she did "Tuff Turf" at the ripe age of 15.  She went to rehab when she 20 and by 22 she was hitting the road with her mother talking about their addictions and recovery. 

Other than being female, and actresses I see little commonality between Kim and Catya and even less commonality between Kyle and Eden.  They may have grown up in the same zip code but Eden needs to realize that Kim's fame was a result of her own making, not because she had famous parents.  Catya was addicted to drugs, Kim is an alcoholic.  So at least to me it is fairly important to give an accurate drinking history.

Even the book, HH, doesn't make the claim that Kim was drinking/drugging as a teen or a young adult. The author only addresses that when he writes about when Ken Richards gets ill/is dying/dies but nothing about Kim being an alcoholic/drug addict before then.

[breezy424]

Well, from the other side of the room.  Why should a person have to put up with someone who is high as kite on who knows what?  I've said this before and I'll say it again, I would have had that limo stop at the nearest decent place and I would be out of the car.  Why?  I'm not some naive person who is some sort of scaredy cat.  I was raised in NYC and have seen enough to not put up with that kind of bullshit.  Nope.  I'm out.  Oh, and did Kim ever apologize for that?

Now...as to why Kim became an alcoholic.  Just like it was stated to me as to who is to judge if someone should be put on meds, who is to judge that someone becomes an alcoholic because of their upbringing?  People who have had incredibly happy childhoods can become alcoholics.  Children who have had incredibly horrible childhoods don't.  There are many factors that goes into why someone becomes addicted.  There is no one fit all answer.  Facts about one's childhood doesn't necessarily equate alcoholism.

House of Cards is not the be all on Kim Richards and her sisters.  It's one point of view.  I'll take Kyle's statements on their childhood over a book written by someone else.  And yes, Kyle has stated that her childhood was not traditional and some of the things she has said is more than shocking.  She has also said that her sisters and she loved their mom.  That has never wavered.  And none of them have said their childhood was unhappy.  IIRC, the only thing that has been said is that Kim missed going to regular school and Kyle wanted to go to college and be a lawyer.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  As both ZM and WW have stated, Kyle and Kim's father provided for the family, not Kim.  Kim wasted her money when she came into it at 18.

And wow.  Kyle's thighs are huge?  Huh?  Kyle looked great in that photo.  Well, the girl with the huge thighs did great in the marriage department.  Who's laughing now.  She's got a great house, a husband who seeming adores her, four daughters who are on the right track, great dogs (love you Bambi) and a delicious house out in the desert.  She's done ok with those fat thighs and back fat.  Girl got the brass ring despite it.

[WireWrap]

8 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Well, from the other side of the room.  Why should a person have to put up with someone who is high as kite on who knows what?  I've said this before and I'll say it again, I would have had that limo stop at the nearest decent place and I would be out of the car.  Why?  I'm not some naive person who is some sort of scaredy cat.  I was raised in NYC and have seen enough to not put up with that kind of bullshit.  Nope.  I'm out.  Oh, and did Kim ever apologize for that?

Now...as to why Kim became an alcoholic.  Just like it was stated to me as to who is to judge if someone should be put on meds, who is to judge that someone becomes an alcoholic because of their upbringing?  People who have had incredibly happy childhoods can become alcoholics.  Children who have had incredibly horrible childhoods don't.  There are many factors that goes into why someone becomes addicted.  There is no one fit all answer.  Facts about one's childhood doesn't necessarily equate alcoholism.

House of Cards is not the be all on Kim Richards and her sisters.  It's one point of view.  I'll take Kyle's statements on their childhood over a book written by someone else.  And yes, Kyle has stated that her childhood was not traditional and some of the things she has said is more than shocking.  She has also said that her sisters and she loved their mom.  That has never wavered.  And none of them have said their childhood was unhappy.  IIRC, the only thing that has been said is that Kim missed going to regular school and Kyle wanted to go to college and be a lawyer.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  As both ZM and WW have stated, Kyle and Kim's father provided for the family, not Kim.  Kim wasted her money when she came into it at 18.

And wow.  Kyle's thighs are huge?  Huh?  Kyle looked great in that photo.  Well, the girl with the huge thighs did great in the marriage department.  Who's laughing now.  She's got a great house, a husband who seeming adores her, four daughters who are on the right track, great dogs (love you Bambi) and a delicious house out in the desert.  She's done ok with those fat thighs and back fat.  Girl got the brass ring despite it.

There is no way that I would have stayed in that limo with Kim! No way! Like you, I would have gotten out and demanded another car. Kim was in the wrong that night, well, her and Brandi, not Rinna, Kyle, Eileen or Vince. Now, Rinna crossed the line later on in the season and I am not talking about the wine glass smash but after, closer to the reunion and then after the reunion with all the texts/tweets.

[zoeysmom]

5 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

There is no way that I would have stayed in that limo with Kim! No way! Like you, I would have gotten out and demanded another car. Kim was in the wrong that night, well, her and Brandi, not Rinna, Kyle, Eileen or Vince. Now, Rinna crossed the line later on in the season and I am not talking about the wine glass smash but after, closer to the reunion and then after the reunion with all the texts/tweets.

I might have asked to be moved to the front seat.  There was at least one other person if not two in the vehicle either camera person or producer in the car.  Rinna is showing a lot of unpleasant sides to her, having said that I believe she is a consummate professional about showing up and adhering to shooting schedules.  I believe that same professionalism is why she stayed on in Amsterdam. 

On the way home from Poker Night I found Rinna to be terribly annoying towards Kyle.  I think Kyle was pretty shell shocked and worried about her sister.  Meanwhile back at the Van Patten home Kim and Brandi stayed on.  Hollywood is one strange place.

[zoeysmom]

28 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Well, from the other side of the room.  Why should a person have to put up with someone who is high as kite on who knows what?  I've said this before and I'll say it again, I would have had that limo stop at the nearest decent place and I would be out of the car.  Why?  I'm not some naive person who is some sort of scaredy cat.  I was raised in NYC and have seen enough to not put up with that kind of bullshit.  Nope.  I'm out.  Oh, and did Kim ever apologize for that?

Now...as to why Kim became an alcoholic.  Just like it was stated to me as to who is to judge if someone should be put on meds, who is to judge that someone becomes an alcoholic because of their upbringing?  People who have had incredibly happy childhoods can become alcoholics.  Children who have had incredibly horrible childhoods don't.  There are many factors that goes into why someone becomes addicted.  There is no one fit all answer.  Facts about one's childhood doesn't necessarily equate alcoholism.

House of Cards is not the be all on Kim Richards and her sisters.  It's one point of view.  I'll take Kyle's statements on their childhood over a book written by someone else.  And yes, Kyle has stated that her childhood was not traditional and some of the things she has said is more than shocking.  She has also said that her sisters and she loved their mom.  That has never wavered.  And none of them have said their childhood was unhappy.  IIRC, the only thing that has been said is that Kim missed going to regular school and Kyle wanted to go to college and be a lawyer.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  As both ZM and WW have stated, Kyle and Kim's father provided for the family, not Kim.  Kim wasted her money when she came into it at 18.

And wow.  Kyle's thighs are huge?  Huh?  Kyle looked great in that photo.  Well, the girl with the huge thighs did great in the marriage department.  Who's laughing now.  She's got a great house, a husband who seeming adores her, four daughters who are on the right track, great dogs (love you Bambi) and a delicious house out in the desert.  She's done ok with those fat thighs and back fat.  Girl got the brass ring despite it.

Nope, she didn't just explained she was under the influence of one teeny tiny Vicodin. 

I thought Kyle looked cute in the photo.  She does have a lot going for her personally and professionally.  And in the dog department.

[breezy424]

On another note...AA is not the only answer for alcoholics in recovery.  But let's not forget it has been the answer for so many.  Quite frankly, I've never heard anyone say that you have to be in AA or follow 'AA rules' to be truly sober.  And from personal experience, Al anon is a wonderful place for people who are dealing with an alcoholic.  The sober debate is one that is not going to be resolved.  We all have different definitions of sober just like we all have different definitions of enabling. 

Add to that, sometimes you just have to let go and let an addict deal with their addiction.  You can only do so much.  When it comes to the point where it's affecting yourself or you family to an overwhelming degree, you have the right to let go.  If they don't want the help you're willing to give, you have to let them sort it out.  Addiction is different in that there is a choice.  They have to reach their bottom.  It's hard.   And it's even harder when children are involved and yeah, I totally get them being the priority.  Someone mentioned Kim being on Dr. Phil and him saying that Kim had underlying mental health issues but keep in mind Dr. Phil also has a philosophy of if they get arrested don't bail them out.  It's enabling.  Heck, don't get me wrong.  I get addiction is disease.  However, this disease can be controlled by the person who has the disease.  Not so much for a whole lot of other diseases.

[breezy424]

8 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I might have asked to be moved to the front seat.  There was at least one other person if not two in the vehicle either camera person or producer in the car.  Rinna is showing a lot of unpleasant sides to her, having said that I believe she is a consummate professional about showing up and adhering to shooting schedules.  I believe that same professionalism is why she stayed on in Amsterdam. 

On the way home from Poker Night I found Rinna to be terribly annoying towards Kyle.  I think Kyle was pretty shell shocked and worried about her sister.  Meanwhile back at the Van Patten home Kim and Brandi stayed on.  Hollywood is one strange place.

Yeah, LR was really annoying with the questions and comments and I felt really bad for Kyle.  I was like WTF.

I've seen enough of Kim to know that Kim just doesn't get it.  Kim is a special snowflake and will never be accountable for her actions.  That's why I can't stand her. 

I'm also not quite sure if there was another producer in the limo.  The camera seemed pretty stationary at the time.  I could be wrong.

Edited February 25, 2017 by breezy424

[WireWrap]

14 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I might have asked to be moved to the front seat.  There was at least one other person if not two in the vehicle either camera person or producer in the car.  Rinna is showing a lot of unpleasant sides to her, having said that I believe she is a consummate professional about showing up and adhering to shooting schedules.  I believe that same professionalism is why she stayed on in Amsterdam. 

On the way home from Poker Night I found Rinna to be terribly annoying towards Kyle.  I think Kyle was pretty shell shocked and worried about her sister.  Meanwhile back at the Van Patten home Kim and Brandi stayed on.  Hollywood is one strange place.

That would be the seat that Kim was trying to kick the stuffing out of, so not really an option either. I don't think there was a camera person in the limo but I have no idea if there was a producer there or not. I will say that I am surprised the limo driver didn't put a stop to Kim's kicking because she could have damaged the limo.

I agree, Rinna is a professional and shows up for filming when she is required to do so.

Yes, Rinna was insensitive to Kyle on the ride home and I really hate to defend her but I think she was almost as shell shocked as Kyle was that night.

[glowbug]

On 2/23/2017 at 8:55 AM, zoeysmom said:

 

First thing I thought when I saw that picture of Kyle was "My Barbie had the same bathing suit." Turns out it was Beach Blast Barbie from 1989, the same year that photo was taken. Too funny.

Edited February 25, 2017 by glowbug

[zoeysmom]

32 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

On another note...AA is not the only answer for alcoholics in recovery.  But let's not forget it has been the answer for so many.  Quite frankly, I've never heard anyone say that you have to be in AA or follow 'AA rules' to be truly sober.  And from personal experience, Al anon is a wonderful place for people who are dealing with an alcoholic.  The sober debate is one that is not going to be resolved.  We all have different definitions of sober just like we all have different definitions of enabling. 

Add to that, sometimes you just have to let go and let an addict deal with their addiction.  You can only do so much.  When it comes to the point where it's affecting yourself or you family to an overwhelming degree, you have the right to let go.  If they don't want the help you're willing to give, you have to let them sort it out.  Addiction is different in that there is a choice.  They have to reach their bottom.  It's hard.   And it's even harder when children are involved and yeah, I totally get them being the priority.  Someone mentioned Kim being on Dr. Phil and him saying that Kim had underlying mental health issues but keep in mind Dr. Phil also has a philosophy of if they get arrested don't bail them out.  It's enabling.  Heck, don't get me wrong.  I get addiction is disease.  However, this disease can be controlled by the person who has the disease.  Not so much for a whole lot of other diseases.

I found this article about AA-I found it informative.  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/11355322/10-things-no-one-tells-you-before-you-go-to-an-AA-meeting.html Kind of an interesting observation about never buy a car from someone you attend AA meetings with, or date.  The author makes the point that unlike fraternal organizations there really isn't any contact outside the meetings - or secret handshakes.  Pay attention Eden. I have never heard anyone say you aren't truly sober unless you follow AA Rules.  It is a little like saying someone isn't a Christian unless they are Catholic or Baptist.

The bolded part is something Eden can't abide by.  I don't think it registered with her that Kim has not asked for help or may not find her relatable.  Eden gets really angry when she is rejected, which is why she shouldn't set herself up for rejection.  Rinna isn't much better when her sage advice is rejected or when someone doesn't want to participate in her conversation about them.   

[Yours Truly]

7 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Why would Kim lie and more importantly why is there no commentary of said behavior by others if she was partaking in partying ways back then? Kim has said her relationship with alcohol was minimal in her twenties, not everyone who is an alcoholic starts out drinking out of control.  It would be fairly important from a treatment standpoint to get a fix on when her unhealthy drinking habits started. Many treatment professionals will say the person can get fixed into their emotional development maturity corresponds to the age they started abusing.  When a person pinpoints the age they started abusing alcohol often times it is tied to life events. 

What makes this relevant is Eden is trying to find this commonality in the Sassoons' lives and the Richards' sisters lives.  Comments like, our paths crossed, BH is a small town, on the set, at our home all the time, the addiction started with Kim Richards and RDJ are just examples of the dangers of assuming and in Eden's case trying to find commonality.

Catya dropped out of high school at 14 to go to NY and pursue a modeling career, where she enjoyed some success, she was married when she did "Tuff Turf" at the ripe age of 15.  She went to rehab when she 20 and by 22 she was hitting the road with her mother talking about their addictions and recovery. 

Other than being female, and actresses I see little commonality between Kim and Catya and even less commonality between Kyle and Eden.  They may have grown up in the same zip code but Eden needs to realize that Kim's fame was a result of her own making, not because she had famous parents.  Catya was addicted to drugs, Kim is an alcoholic.  So at least to me it is fairly important to give an accurate drinking history.

I don't think Kim lied. I just think it was just a part of the scene back then and it makes sense that she as well as Kyle had their share of wild nights (wild as in partying drinking and whatever else the basics in the 80's) not saying it's something scandalous just something likely. I doubt Kim reflects on it as anything relevant to share cause it was most likely just good old fashioned fun plus she probably wouldn't associate that carefree partying with when she started to self medicate to escape due to bigger triggers in her life. I'm guessing she looks back and see the difference between drinking to socialize and party and when her real dependence began so she describes those days as her not being a drinker in comparison to what her drinking turned into.. either way I just think she has a longer history with it that's all. 

[TattleTeeny]

11 hours ago, lololol said:

She doesn't look AMAZING - big thighs are NOT attractive.

Oh my god, who gives a shit? No one here is any authority on the "right" kind of thighs and, as I'm sure you know, "amazing" is a matter of opinion. Jesus fucking Christ. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by TattleTeeny