S03.E13: It's War

[jvr]

@Tiger ...so your saying Anna killed Wes? Or she didn't know he was there? I don't understand why she would burn her house down with two people in it and then call the cops on herself. That doesn't add up, and doesn't sound like a Annalise plan...too many loose ends. I guess I could see her burning her house down but no one would have been in there (unless she was trying to kill them).

I do agree Atwood being any crazier gets seriously daytime soaps but I just can't bring the Mahoneys in on this and we are running out of suspects. If not Atwood then Oliver for firestarter?

eta: @Keepitmoving agree to disagree. You didn't hit on some of things Michaela has said, maybe in jest, to Asher. I actually thought in that convo he might bring up her being very dismissive of his feelings and thoughts.

Edited February 17, 2017 by jvr

[LaJefaza]

Yeah, Imma need badass Annalise Keating back, PRONTO.

I love Viola, and I know she is legendary and has more range than most and she's great at playing vulnerable...but I need AK back to kicking ass...right now. It's been long enough. She needs to dump the pills, burn that hideous wig, slap on some makeup, pull on one of her many gorgeous coats and a pair of red bottoms and start smashing down doors again. She's ANNALISE FREAKING KEATING, dammit. Love her or hate her (she's pretty devious), she is better than this. She's supposed to make mincemeat of the likes of Atwood. And Dean Hargrove is supposed to be too scared to close even ONE eye right now, knowing the caliber of enemy she's made for herself.

I need the real AK to stand the hell up.

And I need her to remind the K4.5 just who the hell she is.  I'm tired of seeing her mope and bow down to these brats (and I say this as someone who likes most of them, everyone except Connor, to be precise), and I'm tired of seeing them kick her while she's down. I need her to inform Laurel that she knows she is grieving, and it's totally understandable, but she has ONE MORE TIME to pop off at the mouth like that. AK cared deeply about Wes LONG before Laurel even cared to pay attention to him. Laurel needs a reminder.

If any of these brats have a problem with the situation they're all in now, and are tired of being under AK's oppressive wing, they can scamper off to the cops and confess and take their chances, since they're all so 'miserable' now. I'm sure they know a few good lawyers.

I laughed out loud early in the episode when Connor said to Oliver, something along the lines of "We need to find out if Annalise killed Wes, Wes deserves that."  Connor could barely even keep a straight face while saying it. What the hell does he know about what Wes 'deserves'? He despised him! That was so fake it was laughable. I definitely don't think he killed him, but I'm pretty sure all Connor's trying to do in getting Oliver to hack the phone, is cover his own ass. 

17 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Karla Souza is doing a phenomenal job, but I'm still not feeling right about Laurel's hysterics about Wes. As much as I want to believe in it, I just don't.

I agree with this totally. Wes was the love of her life for what, 30 minutes? With all her accusations and excoriation of those she deems unworthy of mourning him, she didn't care much for him either, not too long ago. She was also one of the people who didn't treat him all that well. I'm not saying their relationship wasn't genuine (for the 5 minutes it existed), but just the other day she was fraught with 'deep' feelings for Frank too, and now she's all My Heart Will Go On over Wes? I'm not saying she felt NOTHING for Wes, I'm just wondering if she was also partially chastising herself when she was giving that eulogy.  

On a shallow note...Aja Naomi King is seriously one of the most gorgeous women I have ever seen. Talk about flawless, my god. I need her skin regimen STAT.

[Aquarius97]

How Connor was able to check his voice mail if his phone was hidden in Michaela's couch?

[jvr]

@Aquarius97 Oliver explained that Connor used the guys phone he slept with to call his own phone and listen to his voicemail. Oliver called hookup guy (Tim? lol idk) to confirm this happened. 

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

And I need her to remind the K4.5 just who the hell she is.  I'm tired of seeing her mope and bow down to these brats (and I say this as someone who likes most of them, everyone except Connor, to be precise), and I'm tired of seeing them kick her while she's down. I need her to inform Laurel that she knows she is grieving, and it's totally understandable, but she has ONE MORE TIME to pop off at the mouth like that. AK cared deeply about Wes LONG before Laurel even cared to pay attention to him. Laurel needs a reminder.

I just don't get all the Anna is the worst in all this attitude and I specifically rolled my eyes when she went over to Laurel and I believe I heard Laurel say some shit about how she was waiting for a "Laurel I'm sorry..."from Anna. WTF? Girl you ain't the grieving widow, or even a the grieving long time girlfriend for that matter. The damn season is so short and there was enough of it when you were running around chasing after Frank. Wes came to your apt. and you even had to convince him that you weren't still in love with Frank before ya'll slept together.  Anna didn't kill your fake husband any more than any other suspect including you, step aside. Hell, Anna has to apologize again and give you a special apology. She fucking apologized that morning before you interrupted, rolled your eyes and walked out. Look, I do not put Anna on some pedestal except when it comes to her legal mind. The little Keatings don't need to bow down to her, they don't need to avoid being blunt and factual with her when they speak to her, but they need to own their shit and stop whining.  I'm going to need Norwalk to stop with the mommy Anna angle that he's got going on here. He put that in when he had Anna give that little speech about never thinking she wanted to be a mother but here she is doing the mothering of the Keating-5. I never bought into it, it's annoying. They don't know how to practicelaw as she does, but they are all adults and Michaela is even more of an adult than all of them IMO as she been on her own and taking care of herself all her damn life. Her resentment IMO comes from projecting her I'm looking for a black, powerful mommy figure all my life and I finally thought I would find her in my idol, and now I'm let down. And that is on Michaela, you're not going to find her, stop looking, you're tough and you made it this far without one. Don't put that on Annalise, that's not fair, and I believe that's where her resentment is coming from. Connor, instead of bitching every damn episode about Anna not letting you turn yourself in, you should have just turned yourself in, because as I recall, unlike Rebecca, Anna never had you tied up in her basement. You could have walked into the police station at any time, but you didn't want to go alone, so you couldn't man up.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, jvr said:

@Tiger ...so your saying Anna killed Wes? Or she didn't know he was there? I don't understand why she would burn her house down with two people in it and then call the cops on herself. That doesn't add up, and doesn't sound like a Annalise plan...too many loose ends. I guess I could see her burning her house down but no one would have been in there (unless she was trying to kill them).

I do agree Atwood being any crazier gets seriously daytime soaps but I just can't bring the Mahoneys in on this and we are running out of suspects. If not Atwood then Oliver for firestarter?

eta: @Keepitmoving agree to disagree. You didn't hit on some of things Michaela has said, maybe in jest, to Asher. I actually thought in that convo he might bring up her being very dismissive of his feelings and thoughts.

No, I'm saying that Annalise started the fire, totally unaware that Wes and whoever else was in the house.

And I know there are holes there . . . actually, the only thing I know for sure is that once again I am going to miss the fuck out of this batshitcrazy show after next week.

[truthaboutluv]

44 minutes ago, Aquarius97 said:

How Connor was able to check his voice mail if his phone was hidden in Michaela's couch?

He used Thomas' (the guy he hooked up with) phone. That's how Oliver found out. He said he called Thomas because he always found it strange how long it took Connor to get to the hospital and Thomas told him Connor checked his voicemail on Thomas' phone and left hours before the fire happened. 

[Aquarius97]

43 minutes ago, jvr said:

@Aquarius97 Oliver explained that Connor used the guys phone he slept with to call his own phone and listen to his voicemail. Oliver called hookup guy (Tim? lol idk) to confirm this happened. 

Thanks. I didn't know that it was possible to do that.

 

Anyway, as Thomas confirmed to Oliver, Connor left his house several hours before the fire, so why he suppousely went to AK's house right there (which would make Wes' death a lot before the fire), instead of picking up his phone in Michaela's home? 

Now thinking about the voice mail, I think the timeline doesn't check out. Connor checked his voice mail  when he was still with Thomas, who says he left his house several hours before the fire. But Connor's voice mail is after Laurel talks to AK, which was near the time of the fire, as she went straight to AK's house after the call.

Does anyone found suspicious that Michaela's mother goes away right after Wes' death? I think she is somehow involved, and definitely was in the house before the fire. Then she would buy her aliby promising to help her mother and making her leave Philly in the moment. It would be a smart move from Michaela, and a huge shock

[Milaxx]

20 hours ago, stonehaven said:

......

So Wes was cremated? Does this still give credence to the theory that Wes may be alive?

 

Wes is dead. We saw an autopsy, complete with the scapel going into his flesh and organs being removed and weighed.

20 hours ago, Chairperson Meow said:

I wonder if the man Laurel saw was actually Connor or was it Frank?  

 

20 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

You cannot leak an ARTICLE to the press. You can leak facts, evidence, or a story, but not a completed article to the press or media. A fully completed article that an office, agency, person, or corporation gives to the press is called a press release. Given the general level of incompetence displayed on this show, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the DA put together a press release about how they lost Wes' body.

What the fuck is the DA going to do in a custody case?  Except for putting in a statement about how helpful President Sponsor was in gathering evidence on Annalise, doesn't make President Sponsor a good parent, not a drunk, or someone who didn't violate the tenets of AA.

Connor has been paranoid and assigning blame when he was the one who was there. There is no reason to not share those details with the others after how many horrible things they've done together. The only reason to hide it is if Connor is the anonymous source.

Dear God in heaven is this show remedial.

Good point about the article leak. 

As far as the dean and the child custody case, part of the issue with her ex was that she plead out so that the University board wouldn't find out and remove her as dean. I'd assuming the DA was going to help with keep the custody case quiet.

19 hours ago, doram said:

 Connor performing CPR doesn't mean he didn't kill Wes. Perhaps they had a fight and he accidentally killed him. He panicked, tried to save him, realized he was gone and ran off. 

I've always maintained that the fire and murder are two unrelated crimes. I believe the Mahoneys are a red herring. 

I thought at the end of the first half of the season there was a time gap in Connor's wherabouts the night of the fire. I even speculated he accidentally killed Wes. I can still see that happening. In fact I bet it was Connor Laurel saw run out and not Frank.

 

19 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

No, I think the actress had that backstory changed, the insinuation that her father was some kind of dangerous criminal that is....I think that backstory has been replaced with her resenting him or having a strained relationship with him because she blames him for putting her mother away in an institution because she 's mentally ill. 

Additionally he appears to have been more willing t out business ahead of family. Not only abandning her mentally ll mother but refusing to pay the raansom when Laurel was kidnaapped as a child.

11 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Well we all knew we'd eventually get to the speculation of Connor possibly killing Wes. As I said last season, his and Wes' timelines were the ones that turned out to be off when we were first trying to figure out who was under the sheet. The mid-season finale clearly showed that Connor left Thomas' before he had any knowledge of the fire or any of that stuff. 

Of course the fact that they've telegraphed it so clearly makes it obvious to me it's not him (or that's what they want us to think *insert evil side-eye*). But in all seriousness, I've never believed Connor was guilty because again, since last season he seemed like such an obvious suspect. Connor cracked me up when Annalise was first talking to them all and said she would have understood if they'd all fled to Brazil by now and he responded, "wait, is that an option?" Like he was seriously wondering if he had missed that option when they were plotting their escape plan last episode. 

My money is still on Laurel. The overly emotional grieving girlfriend who wants vengeance makes her the least likely suspect and just for that, she's my main suspect. I said last week, when she said that she saw someone run out the door in the basement that that was probably true but she just lied about knowing for a fact it was Frank. You know it's like they always say the best lies are the ones with some truth in them. So my guess is she did see someone and it was probably Connor who freaked when he heard someone coming, clearly thinking Wes was dead and not wanting to be found over his body. Now granted that makes it sound like Laurel herself got there and found Wes already dead and then the house blew up. But I don't know, my gut still says something is off with her story. 

The other option of course is that Wes is still alive. I know the showrunners have emphatically denied this but let's face it, it wouldn't be the first time a show runner has lied to the viewers. The losing the body scenario was already suspect to me but now we have the sudden cremation as well? And of course we still don't know who Wes was calling that he identified himself as Christophe to and was apparently only for emergency purposes. If he did somehow fake his death, I think Connor may end up hating him even more than he already does and in likely Connor fashion, tell him he should have stayed dead. By the way, I continue to remain on my unpopular train of liking Connor.

Yeah he's bitter and resents Annalise and kind of hated Wes, so what in my opinion. And I say that as someone who likes Annalise and liked Wes just fine. But as I've said, ultimately none of the characters on this show are actually good people. They all just manifest their awful in different ways. 

I always felt Connor had time between sleeping with Thomas and turnng up at the hospital to have been at AK's. If he ran out when he heard someone coming (Laurel?) he would have been out the house before the fire. I still think Connor either found Wes dead and tried to do CPR or he and Wes had a fight, and he accidentally killed Wes.

9 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Didn't Laurel sign over some kind of Waiver for her dad back when she was trying to get his help with Frank? It seemed she forfeited her inheritance or something. Or did they go back and fix that?

Laurel signed ownsership of some property her father had but didn't want put in her brother's name.

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I've always gotten this "Single White Female" vibe with Atwood, meaning she wants to be Annalise but it's just not working.

Mary J. Blige described her like that when Atwood came to her beauty shop asking about AK. 

1 hour ago, jvr said:

@Aquarius97 Oliver explained that Connor used the guys phone he slept with to call his own phone and listen to his voicemail. Oliver called hookup guy (Tim? lol idk) to confirm this happened. 

Thomas.

******

Good episode. Micheala is still stepping up. I'm nervous that the remaining K4 are  suspecting each other. I was not surprised to see that Connor had been at the house. The blood test that Mama Mahoney had done makes them climb higher up on my suspect list. I think Wes's murder and the house fire were 2 separate events. Net week is gonna be a humdinger. I can't wait!

Edited February 18, 2017 by Milaxx

[Milaxx]

4 minutes ago, Aquarius97 said:

Anyway, as Thomas confirmed to Oliver, Connor left his house several hours before the fire, so why he suppousely went to AK's house right there (which would make Wes' death a lot before the fire), instead of picking up his phone in Michaela's home? 

Now thinking about the voice mail, I think the timeline doesn't check out. Connor checked his voice mail  when he was still with Thomas, who says he left his house several hours before the fire. But Connor's voice mail is after Laurel talks to AK, which was near the time of the fire, as she went straight to AK's house after the call.

I have to rewatch, but I think the order was the first round of calls was: AK to Oliver telling him to meet her at the computer lab. Then AK calls Laurel, ask her to meet at the house and call the others. Wes is with the police and let's his go to voicemail. AK talks to Laurel and AK asks her to get the others and meet at the hiuse. Asher tells Laurel he's too drunk and we see Connor with Thomas postcoital. I'm guessing it was at this point Connor used Thomas's phone to check his messages and left to go to AK. IIRC Wes left the police station around 4:32 and the fire stated 9 or 10(?). The next call we see is Laurel going into AK's house trying to call Wes since the had a fight. It was shortly after Laurel went in the house that the fire starts.

I'll rewatch and edit, but I don't think Laurel called Connor again closer to going to AK's house, just Wes because they were having a lover's quarrel.

[starri]

"He's a private investigator."

"Like Veronica Mars?"

Oh, god, don't make me love you more, Asher.

[Milaxx]

Asher is the pop culture nerd of the group. He also reference the Red Wedding from GoT.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

I'm nervous that the remaining K4 are  suspecting each other. I was not surprised to see that Connor had been at the house. The blood test that Mama Mahoney had done makes them climb higher up on my suspect list.

Mrs. Mahoney looked up at Wes and I'll never forget thinking, yeah, she knows exactly who he is. I don't even think she made eye contact with him, but he camera showed her eyeing him, it was smooth.

Good lord, I can only imagine where this is going if it was the Mahoney's, ugh. Laurel once again hogging up screen time as we have to deal with saving Wes's legacy from the Mahoney's because if they find out she's pregnant with his baby, blah, blah, blah...

[starri]

3 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Good lord, I can only imagine where this is going if it was the Mahoney's, ugh. Laurel once again hogging up screen time as we have to deal with saving Wes's legacy from the Mahoney's because if they find out she's pregnant with his baby, blah, blah, blah...

Unless, as I suspect may be more likely, we see her lose the baby, as a parallel to Annalise.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Does anyone found suspicious that Michaela's mother goes away right after Wes' death? I think she is somehow involved, and definitely was in the house before the fire. Then she would buy her aliby promising to help her mother and making her leave Philly in the moment. It would be a smart move from Michaela, and a huge shock

I don't.  I find it annoying though, that Norwalk didn't give that story more meat and time, but again everything is about Wes as usual so it doesn't surprise me. 

 But why on earth would her mother kill Wes? For what? Not for Michaela because Michaela barely talks to her mother about anything going on in her life, she doesn't. So how would the mother even make the connection or know who the heck Wes is? She only knew who Asher was because he answered Michaela's phone.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

1 minute ago, starri said:

Unless, as I suspect may be more likely, we see her lose the baby, as a parallel to Annalise.

I think they are definitely foreshadowing something like that happening.

[Keepitmoving]

8 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

I think they are definitely foreshadowing something like that happening.

I hope not, because then we get months of poor Laurel having some break down. Then we can't focus on anyone else's problems because again, Laurel is in the hospital and we all have to take care of her because she can't function. Just let her have the kid and struggle with the mothering aspect or the idea of giving it up for adoption. I'm actually tired of Shondaland shows and their miscarriages and abortion story lines, how about an adoption story line for a change. It's different and it happens. Like I said before, how about an open adoption? This way she could keep in contact with her kid.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

8 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

I hope not, because then we get months of poor Laurel having some break down. Then we can't focus on anyone else's problems because again, Laurel is in the hospital and we all have to take care of her because she can't function. Just let her have the kid and struggle with the mothering aspect or the idea of giving it up for adoption. I actually tired of Shondaland shows and their miscarriages and abortion story lines, how about an adoption story line for a change. It's different and it happens. Like I said before, how about an open adoption? This way she could keep in contact with her kid.

responding in speculation thread

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, starri said:

"He's a private investigator."

"Like Veronica Mars?"

Oh, god, don't make me love you more, Asher.

I don't really like Asher, but this nearly tipped me over the line!

Edited February 18, 2017 by secnarf

[possibilities]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

He used Thomas' (the guy he hooked up with) phone. That's how Oliver found out. He said he called Thomas because he always found it strange how long it took Connor to get to the hospital and Thomas told him Connor checked his voicemail on Thomas' phone and left hours before the fire happened. 

I laugh trying to imagine how this phone call between Thomas and Oliver went:

Oliver: So... I hear you hooked up with my ex right after dumping me, and that you were boning for 6 hours on the night his boss's house burned down and his co-worker was murdered. Is that true?

Thomas: It wasn't 6 hours. We only did it for 4, and then he borrowed my phone to check his voice mail and left.

[sarkygal]

Of the Keating gang, I can only see Frank starting the fire. Bonnie would kill Wes, as he had just found out about Rebecca being dead and was thinking to pin it on Annalise. My reasoning is that the fire was to cover up Wes' death, but whoever did it wasn't aware Laurel was there. So that eliminates Connor, as he likely ran away when he heard Laurel enter and would know there was still a live body in the house.

Scenario 1:

Wes comes to confront Annalise about Rebecca being dead. He sees Nate instead. They chat and Nate leaves. Bonnie comes in and lures Wes down to the basement and kills him. Connor shows up and tries to revive him. Instead of calling an ambulance, he runs away as Laurel is arriving so as to avoid being blamed.  Bonnie calls Frank for cleanup duty. Frank doesn't know Laurel is in the house, so he starts the fire to protect Bonnie. 

Random Scenario 2 (inspired by a half bottle of wine):

Wes comes to confront Analise about Rebecca being dead. He sees Nate instead. They chat and Nate leaves. Meggie shows up looking for Wes and she kills him cause she wasn't really all that cool about getting dumped. She hears Connor enter and she hides. Connor runs away when he hears Laurel enter. Loco Meggie sees it as perfect revenge to hurt Laurel as well. She starts the fire and shows up for her hospital shift. She's so off the radar of the K5 and all their shady shenanigans, no one would even think to suspect her.

Random Scenario 3 (inspired by a full bottle of wine):

Wes comes to confront Analise about Rebecca being dead. He sees Nate instead. They chat and Nate leaves.  Atwood has followed Nate in a fit of jealousy and thinks Analise was in the house. Wes confronts her for being in the house and she kills him. She leaves panicking. Connor shows up and tries to revive him. Instead of calling an ambulance, he runs away as Laurel is arriving. Atwood returns and sets the fire not knowing Laurel is in the house and to pin it all on Analise. After she finds out the coroner told Nate that Wes was already dead before the fire, she steals his body for cremation, frames Nate and has the record show that he died in the fire.

[possibilities]

How did the Mahoneys get Wes's DNA?

In the conversation between Wes and Nate, Wes clearly still seemed to be trust and feel friendly toward Annalise, and defended her to Nate. He clearly said he did not think Annalise killed Rebecca, or that she would turn against him to save herself, even when Nate was trying to convince him to watch his back and that Anna was only loyal to herself. I really want to see what he wrote in that statement he never signed, that the prosecution seems to think is so damning. It's not adding up right now.

I have no idea who set the fire or who killed Wes at this point. All theories seem convincing to me, but they can't all be true.

Do we know for sure that Laurel saw a man leaving, or could that be just another part of her lie to the detectives when she wanted to implicate Frank?

[Milaxx]

15 minutes ago, sarkygal said:

Wes comes to confront Analise about Rebecca being dead. He sees Nate instead. They chat and Nate leaves.  Atwood has followed Nate in a fit of jealousy and thinks Analise was in the house. Wes confronts her for being in the house and she kills him. She leaves panicking. Connor shows up and tries to revive him. Instead of calling an ambulance, he runs away as Laurel is arriving. Atwood returns and sets the fire not knowing Laurel is in the house and to pin it all on Analise. After she finds out the coroner told Nate that Wes was already dead before the fire, she steals his body for cremation, frames Nate and has the record show that he died in the fire.

Considering how crazy she's been acting, this scenarios wouldn't surprise me one bit.

20 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I laugh trying to imagine how this phone call between Thomas and Oliver went:

Oliver: So... I hear you hooked up with my ex right after dumping me, and that you were boning for 6 hours on the night his boss's house burned down and his co-worker was murdered. Is that true?

Thomas: It wasn't 6 hours. We only did it for 4, and then he borrowed my phone to check his voice mail and left.

LOL- I can see it now:

Thomas: "Yeah I wanted to go out for sushi, but he just left after he checked his voicemail."

[Milaxx]

3 minutes ago, possibilities said:

How did the Mahoneys get Wes's DNA?

In the conversation between Wes and Nate, Wes clearly still seemed to be trust and feel friendly toward Annalise, and defended her to Nate. He clearly said he did not think Annalise killed Rebecca, or that she would turn against him to save herself, even when Nate was trying to convince him to watch his back and that Anna was only loyal to herself. I really want to see what he wrote in that statement he never signed, that the prosecution seems to think is so damning. It's not adding up right now.

I have no idea who set the fire or who killed Wes at this point. All theories seem convincing to me, but they can't all be true.

Do we know for sure that Laurel saw a man leaving, or could that be just another part of her lie to the detectives when she wanted to implicate Frank?

Maybe they backtracked the lab from his mental health records. They would have done basic bloodwork to make sure he wasn't self medicating when Wes was being held for MH issues. Laurel seem pretty sure she saw someone run. I'm not sure if she saw frank or just assumed it was Frank because she's mad at him.

[Tiger]

What if Wes gave it to them AND what if Mrs. Mahoney was who Wes called and said "it's Christophe".  

[Milaxx]

The date on the DNA test Laurel found was before the fire. I don't think Wes would be on friendly terms with Mrs. Mahoney.

Questions? Why does the DA's office have a file on AK, the K5, Bonnie and Frank. Who is keeping tabs on them like that?

[jhlipton]

12 hours ago, helenamonster said:

I keep forgetting to mention this, and they weren't really shown this episode, but I have this weird affection for the detectives in charge of Wes's case. There's something very "heroes of a different" story about them that I enjoy.

Really. They don't give two fucks about any of the K5 stuff -- they just want to solve their murder.

 

7 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

That's how the scene came off to me and Michaela is like all that is not necessary because it's insulting to my intelligence and I agree.

 

I loved Michaela's one-on-one with Annalise, starting with "I'm calling you 'Annalise' and don't care if you don't like it!" (although it does kind of foreshadow Asher calling her "Mickey"...

14 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Questions? Why does the DA's office have a file on AK, the K5, Bonnie and Frank. Who is keeping tabs on them like that?

DA Smugface started keeping tabs on all of them -- that's how she knew about Asher's involvement in The Incident at Date Rape Lodge.

[secnarf]

38 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Maybe they backtracked the lab from his mental health records. They would have done basic bloodwork to make sure he wasn't self medicating when Wes was being held for MH issues. Laurel seem pretty sure she saw someone run. I'm not sure if she saw frank or just assumed it was Frank because she's mad at him.

I doubt the lab would keep them that long. Speaking from my own experience, calling the lab back the next day to see if they can 'add on' an additional test is worth a shot but nearly always is impossible - either because the sample has degraded, was collected in a different tube type or more than likely, the sample has been completely used and/or discarded. To expect a medical lab to keep a sample for weeks (never mind turning it over to somebody!!!) is a bit of a stretch. Then again, so are most things on this show.

Edited February 18, 2017 by secnarf

[RedheadZombie]

I'm on Annalise's side too, but come on.  Annalise's group has killed Lilah, Sam, Rebecca, Mahoney, and the previous ADA.  Annalise has orchestrated the cover up of all of these murders.  Annalise framed Catherine Hapstall for a crime she didn't commit, and Catherine will be in jail for a long time.  Annalise has been playing dirty and manipulating the DA's office for years.  

I dislike the DA's office and I'm rooting against them, but they have good reason to distrust, dislike, and disbelieve every word that comes out of Annalise's mouth, as well as her entourage.   In a way, Annalise is reaping what she's sown. 

[Milaxx]

9 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I doubt the lab would keep them that long. Speaking from my own experience, calling the lab back the next day to see if they can 'add on' an additional test is worth a shot but nearly always is impossible - either because the sample has degraded, was collected in a different tube type or more than likely, the sample has been completely discarded. To expect a medical lab to keep a sample for weeks (never mind turning it over to somebody!!!) is a bit of a stretch. Then again, so are most things on this show.

Good point, maybe they took a blood sample during the pre-hearing MH eval? It would have been easy for someone as connected as the Mahoney's to slip in a DNA request or get a hold of the blood sample fro that.

[sarkygal]

26 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I doubt the lab would keep them that long. Speaking from my own experience, calling the lab back the next day to see if they can 'add on' an additional test is worth a shot but nearly always is impossible - either because the sample has degraded, was collected in a different tube type or more than likely, the sample has been completely used and/or discarded. To expect a medical lab to keep a sample for weeks (never mind turning it over to somebody!!!) is a bit of a stretch. Then again, so are most things on this show.

 

15 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Good point, maybe they took a blood sample during the pre-hearing MH eval? It would have been easy for someone as connected as the Mahoney's to slip in a DNA request or get a hold of the blood sample fro that.

Great points. I would think it makes a stronger case for Meggie somehow being involved in all this mess. I may be recalling wrong, but wasn't she practicing her med school skills on Wes at some point? If she's a Mahoney plant, she could easily swipe his blood work for them. We've never really had random peripheral characters on this show who didn't get tangled up in the big mystery, so I can't think of any other reason the writers are keeping her around. 

[Aquarius97]

8 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

I don't.  I find it annoying though, that Norwalk didn't give that story more meat and time, but again everything is about Wes as usual so it doesn't surprise me. 

 But why on earth would her mother kill Wes? For what? Not for Michaela because Michaela barely talks to her mother about anything going on in her life, she doesn't. So how would the mother even make the connection or know who the heck Wes is? She only knew who Asher was because he answered Michaela's phone.

I meant that Michaela might be involved, not her mother

[Grace19]

Yes, I am All caught up.

So the writers felt it wasn't enough that I hate Oliver and Nate, now they had to go make me hate Conner too, okay. I liked him before, but mostly for his antagonistic relationship with Michaela, but now I just can't stand him and his passive aggressive behavior. Just like someone already said, I wish he would be revealed as the person who killed Wes so that he could get off the show and take Oliver with him, but since he was shown to be reviving Wes, I don't think he killed him. But am still hopeful that he is somehow involved so that he can stop claiming to be so innocent and stop blaming Wes and Annalise for everything.

I love Michaela, but I was disappointed she shut Asher down like she did, thankfully, she is now open to the idea that Conner could sell them out, Conner is just out for himself.

Asher, never change, my favorite character after Michaela and Annalise, I won't be opposed to you loosing your temper again and beating the asshole out of Conner again.

never liked Oliver and Nate, but I kinda liked them this episode.

I think It will be interesting if Laurel killed Wes. I like that the writers are starting to build on her relationship with Michaela.

Oh Bonnie, never change, she was just giving Conner this killer look when Asher was accusing Conner, I was thinking that Conner better watch his back or he may end up like Rebbecca, not that I would mind.

 

 

I love Frank, I really enjoy his character, its a shame that he is a better lawyer than Bonnie.

I miss badass Annalise too, thankfully, she might be making a comeback next episode. the season finale is going to be insane.

[blackwing]

I know we saw Wes' body... but if somehow this show makes him out to be alive and the body was a stunt double or something concocted by the DA... then I'm done with this show.  And if the actor comes back in the form of a never before mentioned English twin or something... I might be done.

If the killer is anyone except the major players in this storyline (Annaliese, Bonnie, Frank, K4, Atwood, Nate)... I will be pissed.  If a Mahoney suddenly pops up onscreen after months of not being seen... no.  If it turns out to be that K4 wannabe (Simon?)... no.  Thomas, Connor's fling.... no.  

I'm starting to think that somehow, it's going to end up being Lauren Velez.

I forget, what year in law school are the K4 now?  This is the show's third season, but I think they are 2Ls, right?   If so, did the show ever address whether there is a new group of 1L students?  Because in the first season they made it seem like she has a group of 1Ls working for her every year.  Instead of taking one group through three years.  Or do you only get the chance if you are in that one out of every three years?

[starri]

5 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I know we saw Wes' body... but if somehow this show makes him out to be alive and the body was a stunt double or something concocted by the DA... then I'm done with this show.

I don't like it any more that when Battlestar Galactica tried to pretend Katee Sackoff had left to pursue other opportunities and so Starbuck had died.

The Jon Snow thing is a bit more forgivable because no one actually thought he was dead.

[Aquarius97]

12 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I forget, what year in law school are the K4 now?  This is the show's third season, but I think they are 2Ls, right?   If so, did the show ever address whether there is a new group of 1L students?  Because in the first season they made it seem like she has a group of 1Ls working for her every year.  Instead of taking one group through three years.  Or do you only get the chance if you are in that one out of every three years?

AK is no longer professor in Criminal Law 100 (also refered as"How to get away with murder"), so there is not possible to have a new K4

[Chicago Redshirt]

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

How did the Mahoneys get Wes's DNA?

Considering that the Mahoneys are super-rich and in the past hired a PI shady enough to arrange for AK to be hit such that that she lost her baby, I think it's pretty easy to handwave that they hired a PI to collect it. 

11 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Questions? Why does the DA's office have a file on AK, the K5, Bonnie and Frank. Who is keeping tabs on them like that?

As others have said, the fact that AK and the K5 have one or two degrees of separation from a half-dozen deaths and other crimes -- Lila, Rebecca, Sam, DA Smugface, Catherine Hapstall's supposed shooting of AK -- plus the DA's ongoing saltiness at AK beating them like a dog would make their looking into AK and her associates logical. 

[darkestboy]

Another great episode. The reveal with Connor at the end was unexpected but I'm intrigued to see where they go with it.

I also liked that he got called out on his constant accusing of Annalise in this one as well.

The tension between Annalise and the gang this week, you could cut through with a knife.

Loved both Annalise and Frank working to discredit Atwood. Now that was a well overdue comeuppance.

Cannot wait to see how they end this season, 8/10

[tennisgurl]

I swear, if they actually plan on bringing Wes back, it better begin with Laurel kicking him in the balls several times. If he faked his own death anyway. Maybe he was abducted by aliens or something, I don't know at this point.

I wonder if Connors dick behavior is based around guilt for being unable to save Wes, or doing something that unintentionally led to his death? It would make his actions a lot more understandable if his constant bitching about Annalise is actually covering how bad he feels about what happened to Wes.

You know, I do feel like the kids are being too hard on Annalise, even if I do understand that they have a complicated relationship with her. As shady as Annalise can be, a lot of her shadiness really has been to protect them, and she does care about them, even if the ways she shows it can be by manipulating them and showing tough love. On the other hand, their lives have pretty much gone to hell since they joined Team Keating, even if it wasn't all Annalise's fault. Someone on Tumblr posted a sad/funny picture comparing the K5 in the pilot, looking all cute or sassy and young, compared to their current states of exhaustion, crying, and death. Really, they all should have tried to transfer ages ago.

[Milaxx]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I wonder if Connors dick behavior is based around guilt for being unable to save Wes, or doing something that unintentionally led to his death? It would make his actions a lot more understandable if his constant bitching about Annalise is actually covering how bad he feels about what happened to Wes.

That's my guess. That's seems to be the pattern with Connor. Anytime he feels guilty about something he makes himself the whipping boy.

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

I know we saw Wes' body... but if somehow this show makes him out to be alive and the body was a stunt double or something concocted by the DA... then I'm done with this show.  And if the actor comes back in the form of a never before mentioned English twin or something... I might be done.

If the killer is anyone except the major players in this storyline (Annaliese, Bonnie, Frank, K4, Atwood, Nate)... I will be pissed.  If a Mahoney suddenly pops up onscreen after months of not being seen... no.  If it turns out to be that K4 wannabe (Simon?)... no.  Thomas, Connor's fling.... no.  

I'm starting to think that somehow, it's going to end up being Lauren Velez.

I forget, what year in law school are the K4 now?  This is the show's third season, but I think they are 2Ls, right?   If so, did the show ever address whether there is a new group of 1L students?  Because in the first season they made it seem like she has a group of 1Ls working for her every year.  Instead of taking one group through three years.  Or do you only get the chance if you are in that one out of every three years?

My current top 3 for who killed Wes are (in no particular order); Mahoney's, Atwood and possibly Bonnie. Folks like the dean, Simon and even Meggy are pawns at best.   I also think the person who set the fire is likely not the person who killed Wes.

The K4 are 2L's but as mentioned sice AK is no longer teaching criminal law there is no new class of 1L's for her.

[possibilities]

RE the DNA, I don't think they need blood. Hair or skin or saliva works, doesn't it? So, after thinking about it more, I'm thinking this is a very easy way for Meggy to be involved. Maybe she collected a hair sample from his apartment, gave it to Atwood or the Mahoneys. It would be nice if she was truly a nice person all along, and the paranoia about her is unfounded. But on this show no one has been that innocent so far.

Part of me wants it to be LAUREL trying to FRAME the Mahoneys, by giving a sample to the lab, which falsifies records of the Mahoneys doing the test retroactively, like Atwood manufactured paperwork around moving Wes's body, but that's surely too much to get away with. But this show messes with my mind and allows there to be so many layers of convolution that I was able to think of it even though I don't think it's remotely plausible.

If Michaela's mom is involved, it would be because of money-- someone approached her, offered her money for intel, and sent her to town to collect it. I don't know why they had her appear if they were going to make her irrelevant that quickly. But they did the same with Simon, introducing him, giving him a very thin plot, and making him a culprit before disappearing him. So maybe that's the new way they do things around here, although I hope not. I don't particularly think it would be good storytelling to involve either of them at this point, because they've been so underdeveloped that it would be like suddenly making up a complete stranger to be involved. Lazy. On the other hand, it's also not great storytelling to have people introduced for no reason at all. They're already showing us how paranoia breaks up the relationships among the "family" so maybe they think it'd be clever to have them all be innocent and suspecting each other for nothing. I think I'll find this part of it bad storytelling either way.

Right now, Michaela as the murderer or arsonist would be the most shocking reveal. She's really the only one who hasn't had suspicion cast on her but who is part of the core group so wouldn't feel to me like a totally meaningless choice. I have no ideas about why or how she could have done it, though. 

If Connor is the anonymous tip, and he did see Annalise doing something suspicious, it would be kind of satisfying in the sense that it was openly suggested all along and yet was totally overlooked by everyone around him that he could even possibly be telling the truth. I don't particularly think it's where they're going, but it's a somewhat more satisfying twist than "random stranger" or "Simon who we haven't seen all year." It removes the "Annalise really does draw the line at murder" rule, though, and I kind of liked that rule. Unless she did the arson, not the murder, I guess.

[Milaxx]

21 minutes ago, possibilities said:

 

RE the DNA, I don't think they need blood. Hair or skin or saliva works, doesn't it? So, after thinking about it more, I'm thinking this is a very easy way for Meggy to be involved. Maybe she collected a hair sample from his apartment, gave it to Atwood or the Mahoneys. It would be nice if she was truly a nice person all along, and the paranoia about her is unfounded. But on this show no one has been that innocent so far.

 

Yep, Meggy could have provided or obtained hair samples.  I already suspect she's related to Atwood who I believe is involved in this.

Minor nitpick. Why was Oliver looking at Nov job postings? To the best of my recollection it should be late Dec 2015/early Jan 2016 show wise. (Sam's death was Dec 13 2014)

[harmfulhazards]

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

Minor nitpick. Why was Oliver looking at Nov job postings? To the best of my recollection it should be late Dec 2015/early Jan 2016 show wise. (Sam's death was Dec 13 2014)

According to Annalise's phone records the fire happened on Nov 3. Not sure how much time passed over the recent episodes, but it might still be November.

[secnarf]

11 minutes ago, harmfulhazards said:

According to Annalise's phone records the fire happened on Nov 3. Not sure how much time passed over the recent episodes, but it might still be November.

Why was she on the phone with Hannah Keating for 9 minutes that day?

Also I thought she texted the K5 but she appears to have had phone conversations with all of them - including nearly 11 minutes with Wes.

[Aquarius97]

1 minute ago, secnarf said:

Why was she on the phone with Hannah Keating for 9 minutes that day?

Also I thought she texted the K5 but she appears to have had phone conversations with all of them - including nearly 11 minutes with Wes.

AK called Hannah after she burned everything about Rebecca's case while being drunked

[possibilities]

Does anyone have a screenshot of the phone records Oliver was looking at?

[dgpolo]

3 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Does anyone have a screenshot of the phone records Oliver was looking at?

Is that not what's in the post four up from yours?

[possibilities]

Oops! I have the color of my monitor changed because of eye issues, and I didn't see that the link to the records was a link. Sorry about that, and thanks for the heads up!

[harmfulhazards]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

Why was she on the phone with Hannah Keating for 9 minutes that day?

Also I thought she texted the K5 but she appears to have had phone conversations with all of them - including nearly 11 minutes with Wes.

Wasn't there a flashback of Annalise calling Hannah a couple of episodes ago? That records are weird though. Why would anyone be on the phone with taxi for 9 minutes?

[Aquarius97]

51 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Does anyone have a screenshot of the phone records Oliver was looking at?

http://i64.tinypic.com/2ibdysy.jpg