Doubt - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

I barely watch CBS, but in all honesty, while I get why many are mad that this got the axe, CBS really didn't have much choice. The show debuted with a 0.8 demo and, by week 2, slipped to 0.6. If this was a weekend show, that's one thing since demos are low there.

But it wasn't. Even ABC pulled Wicked City a season ago for getting to 0.4 in 3 weeks.

[reggiejax]

On 2/15/2017 at 11:36 PM, GussieK said:

I don't understand the Heigl haters. I've always liked her.  I never watched GA but I liked this show. Great surprise with Judith Light. Elliot Gould is really good. The story is a mashup of real life cases from Michael Skakel to Durst to that doctor who dropped his wife from an airplane. 

I saw the main case as a mashup of the Skakel case and the William Smith rape case. Mostly because Pasquale's character is a member of a Kennedy-esque political family, and both those cases involved the Kennedy family, to varying degrees. Not to mention he is a doctor, as William Smith was, and the case was a decades old cold case, like the Martha Moxley murder.

And as a write this, I realize that in real life, Mark Fuhrman was a part of getting Skakel prosecuted, and Pasquale played Fuhrman in American Crime Story. 

As for Katherine Heigl, I definitely fall on the fan side of the ledger, but I do understand why she has her fair share of haters. I am most definitely not a Heigl hater. Quite the contrary, she could run me over with her car and I would still watch her in anything 

[Court]

I don't care for Heigl but watched this despite her and really enjoyed it.

[TheGreenWave]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 0:50 PM, Court said:

I don't care for Heigl but watched this despite her and really enjoyed it.

Me too....

[Christina]

I give everything three episodes before I decide if I'm going to continue watching, because the first episode always has to pack so much information in that it is often not very good, the second is more of the same, and the third is where they hit their stride. The Bastard Executioner is one that I would have quit immediately, but episode three hooked me. This show would have hit its stride quickly, if CBS gave it a chance. I enjoyed the first two episodes and looked forward to see where the story was going, but almost didn't even know it was airing until the day of the first episode, when I saw a commercial with Dule Hill.

It may just be that I rarely watch commercials, and don't watch the talk shows much either, but I really didn't see this advertised. Hopefully, since so many episodes have already been filmed, they will play the remaining episodes this summer or during the next slow television watching period.

None of the networks want to give shows much of a chance anymore, which leads to us viewers not wanting to give the shows a chance anymore, since they get pulled so quickly. Some of the channels have taken to releasing the first four episodes online or onDemand before the first airing, to get people involved, and it seems to be working well. We don't watch television like we used to, and some of these networks refuse to catch up to the times. 

[Christina]

On 2/25/2017 at 7:10 AM, CaptainCranky said:

Holy smokes CBS cancels after only two shows. I thought the show had some potential but WTF do I know.

Good television, good story telling, and good acting.

[wonderwoman]

Actually kind of sorry to see this one go. The supporting cast was terrific, and there were plenty of emotions to mine in the backstory they laid out (was really looking forward to seeing Elliot Gould and Judith Light). But, the weak link was always going to be Katherine Heigl; she simply doesn't have the acting chops, and frankly, I don't think she ever will. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by wonderwoman
correction

[Three]

Wow. That was quick and brutal. And kind of disappointing. I thought it was quite good (for what it was). I didn't find Heigl annoying. I LOVE Dule Hill. I would watch him in anything. It was nice to see Judith Light and Elliot Gould. I liked Laverne Cox's character. Basically I'm agreeing with most of above, except I didn't find KH to be a problem. What are they wanting instead? 

[Three]

One thing: I really, really didn't care about KH's romantic drama with the is-he-or-isn't-he-guilty doctor. Yawn. She was just part (and not the most interesting part) of a nice ensemble to me. 

[Jaded]

KH was a lot better in the 2nd episode. I agree that they should have let it air a couple more times especially considering the fact that March isn't a sweeps month. 

[Court]

Yes, also love Dule Hill. Think they'll air the rest of the episodes?

[Three]

20 hours ago, Court said:

Yes, also love Dule Hill. Think they'll air the rest of the episodes?

I'd only be interested in them showing the rest of the episodes if they had some sort of resolution. 

I don't care if shows don't run forever with multiple seasons - and I say that as someone who is still watching Supernatural... I would much prefer a satisfying story with a satisfying ending, even if it takes just 13 episodes. Or 4. Who knows? What I really can't stand is this "let's try this" then 2 weeks later, "nope!" and "next!".  Why should I give them my viewing time if they are just going to screw me around? 

[Petunia13]

That sucks. 

[funnygirl]

Bummed that the show got canceled. I liked it for what it was, and saw the potential for it to blossom into something more. 

[Petunia13]

On 2/24/2017 at 8:59 PM, maraleia said:

I'm pissed because Laverne's character was supposed to have this epic romance story which never happens for trans characters. 

This would have been nice to see. 

[Guest]

I'm bummed. I would have liked to see some resolution and I thought the first two episodes were well done.

[ParadoxLost]

I had heard about this show when it was in development.  I had intended to watch it.  I knew it was airing starting mid season but never heard when.  I guess, now that I think about, there is virtually nothing I watch on CBS so that's why.  First I heard it was airing was the news it had already been cancelled.

[Anela]

I came to this board, after wondering why it hadn't recorded for the last two weeks. That does suck. What's the point of watching anything, if they're only going to give two episodes a chance?

[roughing it]

On 2/24/2017 at 4:47 AM, Kathyk1024 said:

CBS didn't promote it well.

No shit.  I had vaguely heard about the show, but never knew when it was on.  Guess it was last month.  Maybe they should have given it a summer try.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Steven Pasquale did the Ham4All challenge!

[wonderwoman]

Bumping this up in case anyone wants to catch the unaired episodes. It looks as though CBS is burning them off on Saturdays starting tonight, 1 July.

[Christina]

I happened to see it while scrolling through, and came to say the same thing. I actually liked the first two episodes, for the most part. I always try to give at least three episodes before giving up, because they have to put so much background info in the pilot that it is always clunky. 

[fellini]

Sadie confronts Billy about new evidence in the case against him, and his explanation disappoints her. Meanwhile, a piece of evidence surfaces and it could expose a massive scandal, and Cameron and Tiffany defend a psychic accused of grand larceny.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So. Is this law firm the kind that only takes on clients they know ABSOLUTELY! POSITIVELY! are innocent? Well, no, that can't be because Sadie and Albert were defending Owen-the kid hacker who hacked evidence of corruption by mistake to save and help his sister. So just what was the bug up Sadie's Butt over Billy? Or is it that their client must be people who have never lied? Though I'm not sure if Billy is guilty, I did love what he said to Sadie at the end-it's her job to explain the two different jerseys, and he's paying her a lot of money to defend him.

Don't care for what seems to come off as "all about me" attitude.

Aaaand I'm throwing all my suspension of disbelief out the window because of Gus Dulé. I totally buy that Sadie is jealous of Albert's girlfriend? Fiancée? And not happy they've reconciled.

I'm hoping we'll see more of Judith Light in the remaining episodes.

[Guest]

Oh man, I didn't know they were airing these.  I'll have to see if it is on Demand!  Thanks!

[Xantar]

I honestly liked this episode. It's not enough to make me wish that the show had never been cancelled, but it was solidly written and acted. I have no particular beef with Katherine Heigl, and I like everybody else in the cast. They all deserve to get work.

And come on, can you honestly say that MacGuyver or half of Hawaii Five-O deserved to be renewed over this?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I know it sounded like I didn't like the episode-I did. Just didn't care for the self-righteousness of Sadie.

And since I refuse to watch the "rebooted" MacGyver, just based on the previews, I agree this show is much better. Because, Dulé.

[fellini]

Sadie interviews Billy's ex-classmates in hopes of finding a key piece of evidence and defends her childhood best friend in a probation violation case; Albert's unpredictable father visits; Isaiah faces off in court against his former law partner.

[fellini]

The DNA results in Billy's case come back; Albert is tormented by Rodney Hill, one of his clients; Cameron represents a woman who was issued a cease and desist order for publicly shaming her rapist.

[wonderwoman]

Wasn't sure where to post this. But, as others have mentioned, I was hoping to see more of Judith Light. So, these past three episodes have been disappointing. So, I did a little investigating. According to her IMDB page, she only appears in the next three episodes: Faith, airs 15 July;  Where Do We Go From Here and Top Dog/Underdog on 22 July.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

SO! The different jerseys are explained and Sadie is all happeee now!??

Man! Why'd Martian Man Hunter  Carl Lumbly have to be the kind of father he was?

So what caused the fire that killed the children? I understand that I shouldn't care about that because Albert's client was found not guilty, but I wanted to know!! And here we have Hollywood 'splanation for creating reasonable doubt, regarding what caused the fire, because 12 years ago, arson investigators DID SO know how to determine where fire origin points are, so that the excuse used, 'they don't know so it must be arson' is such insulting bullshit!

But I'm really enjoying the dance that Carmen and Peter are doing. This is the romance that Laverne Cox was talking about before the show premiered.

And CHAINSAW* as a judge!!! Though the case was beyond stupid.

Still, the episodes keep getting better. It deserved to stay on.

*Summer School reference!?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Cassidy Freeman!!!!!!

This was really good. Seems like each episode is better than the last. The killer Rodney telling Albert where he buried his victim under attorney client privilege reminded me of a Law & Order episode with the same situation, except that this show did it much better and Dulé knocked it out of the park.

The rape case was also very well done, I thought. So sad that shit like this still goes on. It sounded like the rapist didn't use a condom, and since the first victim said she went to health services right away and went to the Campus cops, etc., I don't understand how it was a "he said/she said" case.

And I'm glad that Albert and Gemma broke up for good this time. I didn't understand her issues or problem with Albert. Was it his job? Whatever.

[Xantar]

I still really like this show and wish it was still on the air. Maybe if they had someone without Katherine Heigl's baggage it could have survived. Actually, I personally don't mind Heigl and think she's doing a perfectly fine job in this role.

I don't know exactly what else they can do with the main story arc. The DNA evidence pretty much proves that McHotty didn't commit the murder. What can his sister possibly say that would change the case? And I'm also curious to know what the long term plan was since they can't really stretch out this one murder case for more than one season. 

I initially found the prosecutor chasing after Cameron really annoying. The "I'm not giving up just because you said no" trope is really problematic for me. It's nice to see that he has a serious side and really is trying to do good. But his dating game is still kind of sucky.

[Nessie]

I didn’t care for this episode.  I thought the verdicts for the two cases should have been reversed.  The hacker dude should have been found guilty because hello?  He did break the law.  I felt bad for him but you can’t just go hacking into government databases because you don’t like the way something is being handled.  The fact that a much larger conspiracy was uncovered was completely irrelevant, at least to me.  As for the psychic case…ok, I’m not about to debate if psychic ability is real or not.  But I can’t stand people who don’t get the result they want and so their remedy is to sue and get their money back.  Like the psychic pointed out, he HAD gotten his life together a lot after he started to see her, so she did help him.  He just hadn’t gotten the exact result he wanted, so like a spoiled child he turned around and sued her, then had the nerve to apologize to her afterward, like he didn’t want to do it but his boyfriend made him?  Whatever Not!Ricky.  Take a seat.

That said, I am glad that ABC is airing the rest of the episodes, as I enjoyed it, and was sorry to see it pulled after not even giving it a chance to find an audience.  Personally, I have nothing against Katherine Heigl, but I don’t really understand why she keeps getting so many chances if everyone hates her so much.  But then again, can you really call it being given a chance when a show gets pulled after only two episodes, then relegated to the relative Siberia of summer Saturday nights with no fanfare?

[Nessie]

On 7/8/2017 at 11:35 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

So what caused the fire that killed the children?

I think the father said he fell asleep while smoking, but I could have made that up, as I was only half paying attention.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Nessie
clarity

[PamelaMaeSnap]

First time I have watched this and clearly I am late late late to the party but ... I didn't think the fire was explained either ... I expected the dad to commit suicide after he was "set free." He seemed lost without anywhere to go or anything to live for. 

LOVE LOVE LOVE that they used the Spring Standards' epic "Unravel Unwind" in that final scene where they're painting the apartment. One of my favorite songs by one of my favorite bands. (They also used one of my husband's songs in the scene where Albert and his dad are at the restaurant having dinner which is why we watched to start with LOL.)

[Nessie]

You are both right, it wasn't explained.  After a less then exhaustive google search, I found a script of the episode, which says this:

And I, uh, remember putting Emily and Jason to bed, then I went in my room and, um I fell asleep. Next thing I remember, I'm choking. There's smoke everywhere. I can't see anything.  I can't breathe. I tried to go to my kids' room, but there was just too much fire but I tried.

Read more: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=doubt-2017&episode=s01e04

Then the DA tries to claim the father spent $85 on lighter fluid earlier that day.

[jhlipton]

On 7/6/2017 at 5:00 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Just didn't care for the self-righteousness of Sadie.

The self-righteousness of Sadie?  How about the self-righteousnous of ADA Scumbag?  No, dude, you had a wife and kids.  The rules are there for you too; yoiu don't ghet to break them just because.  Your ass is going to jail, your wife will leave your scummy ass and take the kids with her and your running-friend will be just fine.  She did you a f**king favor by letting you know what was coming, so don't be a high-hat about it.  Dumb-ass.

On 7/11/2017 at 2:04 PM, Nessie said:

I didn’t care for this episode.  I thought the verdicts for the two cases should have been reversed

Exactly!

[fellini]

Amidst prep for Billy's trial, Isaiah goes with Sadie to visit her mother in prison; Albert and Cameron defend a transwoman who was arrested for stabbing a famous baseball player; Cameron gives into her feelings for Peter.

[Tenarife60]

How did last night's episode end?  I ended up falling asleep.  I'm sure the case they featured was based on the CeCe McDonald case where she's a transwoman that stabbed to death a man who threatened her and her friends.   The strange thing about last night's episode is unless this guy knew Delilah (real transwoman Alexandra Grey) was trans he would never have guessed she was.  I really don't think crimes like that happen as much to passable transgenders who are simply walking down the street minding their own business because how would they even know she's trans.  CeCe did look like a male in drag and that's how she got scoped out.

[Palomar]

Definitely have been enjoying the new shows and even though it started out with low ratings, I can't imagine pulling this show after 2 episodes.  It's better than some shows out there. Hope a full season was filmed and we get to see the rest of the episodes.

[Guest]

She was found not guilty and Cameron is now going to represent Sadie's mom.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

Watching this now on demand because the episode was preempted with some baseball game.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm not sure if it was done deliberately or not, but the ADA prosecuting Delilah's case couldn't have looked like the most stereotypical EVUHL! CRONE if they tried! To her downturned mouth to her hook of a nose. Sorry to be so mean and shallow, but that's how she looked. And she had the nasty personality to go with it.

Cameron and Albert are the only characters I really care about. Stupid CBS brass for pulling and canceling this show! It had potential!!!

[Guest]

I think the doctor guy is going to end up being guilty despite the DNA stuff.  I'm not spoiled; I'm only basing this on Sadie being dumb enough to start a relationship with him already.  

[fellini]

Sadie testifies at Carolyn's parole hearing on her fitness as a mother; a man from Carolyn's past resurfaces; Nick's first case is against the district attorney who put him in prison.

[Christina]

I didn't like Grey's Anatomy so my last memory of Katherine Heigl was in Space Camp, which I haven't rewatched since it was a childhood favorite and I'm afraid it won't hold up to time. 

I didn't like Laverne Cox in Orange is the New Black because I didn't think she was that great of an actor and it really showed in scenes with the betters actors. I think Dasha Polanco was the only one I thought was worse. Because of that, I was afraid she would bring this show down, but did like what I heard about her storyline and hoped for the best. But Heigl is just awful here. There were so many postings before the show even aired about disliking her acting and not wanting to even give the show a chance but I (mistakenly as the case turns out) thought that if that were true, the remaining cast would bring the show up, and they do somewhat, if she isn't in the scene and the writing is there.

This particular episode, however, was very hamfisted when it came to the writing, and even the better actors couldn't salvage it. Judith Light's verbal diarrhea at the parole hearing was not only totally expected, there was something wonky about the filming of it. The way they cut to the others for us to see their shocked and/or disappointed faces then back to her was clunky and distracting. Sure, the facial expressions of the others when she had her little breakdown would have been great to see in the moment from a storytelling perspective, but something just didn't land and I'm not sure how to place what it was to describe it here. Some of the supporting characters were better actors than others, and this show doesn't seem to have the best casting director because a few people just don't fit their parts, Heigl included.

Dreama Walker's storyline of realizing she is a different person and no long fits the mold that was in love with the man she had just married, also didn't land well for me, but in that case, I think it is just because it was kind of forced into the episodes. It just needed a bit more time to get from A to Z and seemed like there was something cut, because she says something at one point that I think was a follow-up to a prior scene that was no longer in the episode. Maybe not, though; it could have just been more hamfisted writing.

I did like how the prosecutor didn't recognize the Nick character, which burned him up, but then gave him a photograph of his victim and pointed out that is who he remembered, and Dule Hill's character pointed out that it was what made him a good guy. That was a conclusion I didn't see coming and liked that they didn't have the prosecutor show any negative emotion about not remembering him.

You'll notice I'm using the actor's names instead of the character's names and that is because I don't remember them, other than Nick, and that is because I don't know that actor's name. I'm very disappointed that I'm finding this show so hard to get into, when I was initially disappointed they pulled it after two weeks because I'm such a fan of some of the cast and thought the writing was just so shaky because they needed to get a lot of info into the first few episodes, like most shows.

I think there are only five episodes left, but at the moment, I don't know if I'm bitching just for bitching sake or if I'm done. I'm behind on my viewing of quite a few shows, and don't think my Dule Hill love can carry me through, but at the same time, really enjoy him as an actor and want to support his work. I mean, I've only seen American Gods three times, and have at least another two before I can quote it better, and I'll never want to quote this show. Maybe, they will have written an episode that has Dule singing and it will make the season all worth it for me. I'm still patiently waiting for a Myles Velour CD (Psych reference). Side note: I realize Dule is missing the accent mark, but my computer is being as pissy as I am when I try to use the hotkeys. It's old and decrepit, like me. Also, morphine makes me bitchy as hell and wordy.

[Nessie]

I agree with just about your entire post, Christina, except that Tiffany hadn't just gotten married.  She just gotten engaged and her fiance had just moved to New York.  That whole thing was weird and rushed to me and I guess it's entire purpose was to show how much she had changed while she was there.  As an aside, I can't believe she won her case with her "gosh, sorry, it's my first time off the farm" act.

My favorite parts of the episode were that the DA didn't recognize Nick and not only felt no remorse at it (damn straight) but gave him the pic of his victim, and that Sadie's mom didn't get parole after her outburst.  This show can be way too PC for me sometimes (as can most TV these days), so those two scenes were refreshing to me.

[bioprof]

Getting the vibe that Molly was pregnant ....Sent Billy out for pierogies at 1 in the morning.....Billy the dad???????

Doesn't really matter at this point....look how few posts are here....no one is watching!

[jhlipton]

I am completely underwhelmed by this show.  So many fine actors (Heigl is OK if not dazzling) undone by ghastly stories and contrived plots.

If I was on any of these juries, there's no way they'd be getting a Not Guilty verdict.