S01.E07: They Came First

[formerlyfreedom]

The Wizard launches an assault on a village as his power is threatened and he enlists West to help. Dorothy and Lucas fight to keep Silvie safe as they journey north to seek Glinda's assistance. After suffering a great loss, Langwidere grapples with her new authority as her relationship with Jack continues to become complicated.

 

[Primetimer]

The show still hasn't given us a Cowardly Lion -- but Glinda's a cougar!

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[sjohnson]

If you can't make it good, make it HBO...thus, Langwidere gives Jack a hand job. I'm torn between laughter at the silliness or embarrassment at the lapse in judgment. 

As for the rest, there doesn't seem to be much worth saying.

PS After Jack's O face in the woods, the show pretending any grown woman would have sex and sleep in her bra really is absurdly bashful, as the review notes. But...maybe the random wolf pack is symbolic of unruly sexual feelings though, so it isn't random?

Edited February 11, 2017 by sjohnson

[SimoneS]

Lucky Lucas. He got to make out with Joely Richardson. I really thought we had moved passed using the derogatory term "cougar" to describe sexually active older women.

Luckier Jack. He goes from being killed to get a hand job and then, hot sex with Langwidere. 

[NorthstarATL]

11 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

If you can't make it good, make it HBO...thus, Langwidere gives Jack a hand job. I'm torn between laughter at the silliness or embarrassment at the lapse in judgment. 

As for the rest, there doesn't seem to be much worth saying.

PS After Jack's O face in the woods, the show pretending any grown woman would have sex and sleep in her bra really is absurdly bashful, as the review notes. But...maybe the random wolf pack is symbolic of unruly sexual feelings though, so it isn't random?

I am NEVER going to be able to see the movie scene where Dorothy lubes the Tin Man without giggling now! And, dammit, Jack! YOU may not need to see her without the mask, but I DO!

Lucas/Roan is hot. But I loved Dorothy's reaction of revulsion, rather than jealousy, when he kissed Glinda!

I wish we'd see male magic-users, as Wiz's war on magic seems as much misogyny as self-protection.

[djinn]

The Wizard's witch-hunt is on! He pretty quickly declared the Beast Forever are the ..... witches! The Lion still remains cowardly. And will Scarecrow/Roan/Lucas grow a heart in the next episode when ordered to kill Dorothy?

The Princess Ozma reveal finally happened! So Mombi was obviously keeping Ozma safe by turning her into a boy and keeping her locked up. Safe from the Wizard. 

[SimoneS]

Okay, I just saw the post above that Roan/Lucas is the Scarecrow. 

Edited February 11, 2017 by SimoneS

[KingOfHearts]

10 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Is Roan supposed to be a character from the book or made up for the tv show?

Spoiler

Roan is just the Scarecrow.

Well that was... an episode. It seemed like nothing really happened, other than the Wizard murdering the council and the reveals toward the end. Last week was far more engaging and focused because it dealt specifically with the Wizard. Speaking of which, as dictators ago, the Wizard is an idiot. He doesn't actually do anything to get people on his side. He only seems to be in power because he's uncontested. I don't think the fact he *supposedly* defeated the Beast Forever would be enough to keep the whole kingdom under his subjection. He sends a confusing message when he says magic is evil and then hires a council from a witch. He dealt with that in this episode, but his role just isn't that believable.

Ugh. Not that I was shipping Dorothy and Lucas really hard, but I have a feeling I'm going to hate Glucas.

Edited February 11, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

  Hide contents

Roan is just the Scarecrow.

Ugh. Not that I was shipping Dorothy and Lucas really hard, but I have a feeling I'm going to hate Glucas.

Thanks for the info on Roan. I say give "Glucas" a chance. Glinda and Roan have got to be 100 times hotter than Lucas and Dorothy. Joely Richardson has more sex appeal in her little finger than the actress who plays Dorothy. I will probably be spending most of the time asking, "really Roan, what exactly are you are torn over?"

Edited February 11, 2017 by SimoneS

[KingOfHearts]

Just now, SimoneS said:

Thanks for the info on Roan. I say give "Glucas" a chance. Glinda and Roan have got to be 100 times hotter than Lucas and Dorothy. Joely Richardson has more sex appeal in her little finger than the actress who plays Dorothy. I will probably spending most of the time asking, "really Roan, what exactly are you are torn over?"

I don't doubt they can work as a couple. I just think the writers are going to do whatever they can to make us wish Lucas was with Dorothy instead. 

[Senna]

Geez, that scene with Jack and Lady Ev in the woods was really cringey.  I'm really not sure what they're aiming for with those two; I certainly didn't find it either sexy or romantic.

But then again, even Dorothy and Lucas/Roan's tryst didn't really bring much feeling -- at least I wasn't disgusted there.  More like, it felt slightly rushed/out of place, but I guess they had to get it in there this episode so Lucas could feel betrayed when Dorothy talked about leaving and then Dorothy could feel extra betrayed when Roan started kissing Glinda.  (I guess I'm not really feeling the romantic plots this time around.)

Sylvie rolling the house around was very cool, though.  I also loved the visuals of the scene of the soldiers chasing the young witch through the brightly colored hanging fabrics.  Everything else with the witches seemed to happen awfully fast.  We go from Anna's shocking death to all of the council being offed in one fell swoop.  I don't quite understand what happened with the young witch -- Mistress West said the Wizard used up her power -- did she not have control when she was in the hole in the ground?  Was killing the council an automatic reaction or somehow forced by the Wizard?

Mistress West was the most sympathetic character for me this week. 

[SimoneS]

1 minute ago, KingOfHearts said:

I don't doubt they can work as a couple. I just think the writers are going to do whatever they can to make us wish Lucas was with Dorothy instead. 

Ha. So true.

Spoiler

Not sure why though given that they seem to be staying relatively close to the novel. Roan isn't leaving Oz with Dorothy and more realistically works as Glinda's long term love interest.

[djinn]

16 minutes ago, Senna said:

Mistress West was the most sympathetic character for me this week.

Yes, for me also. And about time too. I had almost given up on her after last week. West finally started to emerge out of her addicted haze this episode. So now the Wizard doesn't have any witch to help him with anything before the guns get made in Ev.

[rur]

36 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Okay, I just saw the post above that Roan/Lucas is the Scarecrow. 

This was pretty much established in the first episode. 

I got the impression in this episode, though, that Langwidere didn't finish what she began and that Pip was in no position to say any thing other than that everything was all right. 

[thuganomics85]

Well, that lube scene was.... something.  They really are going there with Jack and Lady (er, Queen) Ev, I see.

Dorothy and Lucas make it to Glinda, only for Glinda to give Lucas his memories back by making out with him, naturally.  Turns out he is Roan, and he and Glinda are totally an item!  Already turned around and snitched on Dorothy with ease!  Uh oh!

The Wizard ain't fucking around.  Dude that just rounded up all the girls in the town to try and find witches, and after they found one, he just sacrificed the entire High Council (including Elizabeth, I think?) to drain her energy, and it ended up having to be West that put her down.  Poor girl.  Poor West.  Never thought I would ever type that.  The Wizard though better watch it because he really has no allies left, except Dorothy somewhat, and she's in a bit of trouble now!

So, according to that knife Tip had, she's apparently the daughter of royalty?  I wonder what she and/or West are going to do with that knowledge.

Dorothy unleashes more of her powers, which is kind of cool, but since I played that video game, Skyrim, my first reaction to her power scream was "Hey, Dorothy's a Dragonborne, and she just used her force shout!"  

[adam807]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I really thought we had moved passed using the derogatory term "cougar" to describe sexually active older women.

No sexism intended, I just wanted to make the lion/cougar joke. Anyone who wants to and can get with either Oliver Jackson-Cohen or Joely Richardson can and should and has my full support!

[LittleIggy]

I just adore Singh's visuals. He has such an eye for locations and colors. 

Sylvie is so adorable. What huge, expressive eyes.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I like Dorothy and Lucas as a couple.

When will the lion show up?

[Shorty186]

53 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

When will the lion show up?

I'm guessing the next episode, if you go by titles.

I like Dorothy and Lucas too although I didn't realize he was so much taller than her until they were making out. 

[Ariah]

So much happening this episode!

It was obvious the moment Lucas said he's fighting only for Dorothy that he'll do a 180 degree turn. The drama!

The question is - how much does Roan remembers from being Lucas? Are his feelings toward Glinda weaker now that he had 'a moment' with Dorothy? What about Silvie? Are her loyalties with Glinda or Dorothy now? Will she be willing to harm Glinda if Dorothy's in danger? (I hope)

Wow, Frank got paranoid and cold - killing all the Councilwomen in such a way. I think I'm on Glinda's side of this war, but i'm sure she's not so innocent as well. There's a reason why East was so mad with her and I hope it's far more than just breeding witches against the Wizard because, frankly, I think East was not too happy with the Wizard herself.

So Glinda has spies all over Wizard's castle: Elizabeth and other girls of the Council, Roan among his Green Soldiers... Are there more soldier-spies? Did her romance / marriage with Roan began with true love or was that a spell to have a faithful spy? So many questions I'd probably never get answers to. 

...and why did the red-haired Glinda's girl react as if she didn't recognize Roan at all? Did Glinda keep him in a mask or something?

- - -
As a side note, I kind of felt sorry for West this time. I may actually start to like her. 

And I wasn't bothered by Langwidere and Jack. Does that make me a bad person? Probably.

Loved the house turning around scene, very Inception-like.

- - -

Also, drama-wise, I think the plot would have worked better without the cheesy wolves scene. We should have gotten Dorothy saving Silvie from the Wizard's Guard on their way out of the city, if they insist on having a scene like that.

[cooksdelight]

10 hours ago, djinn said:

And will Scarecrow/Roan/Lucas grow a heart in the next episode when ordered to kill Dorothy?

He's gotten his brain back, it seems. 

I couldn't help but laugh when Jack was in the woods, stiffening up due to rust. "Where's your oil can???" I yelled. Ev never ceases to be entertaining.

When the house started rolling, I was suddenly taken back in time to that Lionel Ritchie video. Weird, I know. What are the chances of finding such a cute house in the middle of nowhere? With a scarecrow, no less.

Way to burn up your entire counsel, Wiz. He's not the brightest bulb on the tree, that's for sure.

[sjohnson]

It is not immediately obvious* that putting the council down into the pit, under the force field, would do anything besides make them prisoner like the witch who killed those soldiers. The burning them up seems to be just what the witch does, inasmuch as I can't imagine any possible way for the totally incompetent fraud the Wizard to predict that, much less make her kill them for him. No doubt it's evil of me, but given the deaths of the soldiers the paddy wagon wasn't so blatantly cruel as the show seems to think. But then, I'm not quite sure fiery death for crime of attempting to take a girl into quarantine is justice.

Not sure whether the makers intend this, but "magic" appears to be symbolic of womanhood itself, and thus the Wizard is nothing but misogyny itself, thus the ultimate evil no matter how grossly incompetent he is. The only non-magical woman, Langwidere, is conspicuously deformed. (Other ostensibly female characters wearing dresses are just the equivalent of red shirts. In fantasy, only the special people count as real people at all.)

The house rolling, the hanging sheets, the mingled purity and sterility of Glinda's castle, the bizarre execution of the council...the visuals on this show really are amazing. 

*"immediately obvious" means that my impression is that's amazingly stupid, but maybe I've had a brain fart and I'm missing something, somehow. 

PS It dawns on me that the magic=womanhood thing may be determining visual cue. The colorful sheets are folds the soldiers are penetrating with their swords. Visually it could code as rape, therefore the witch killing them would be righteous. (And for that matter the Wizard's "quarantine" would be virginity testing, which is why the parents were so outraged and the girls so terrified.)

Edited February 11, 2017 by sjohnson

[cooksdelight]

52 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

The house rolling, the hanging sheets, the mingled purity and sterility of Glinda's castle, the bizarre execution of the council...the visuals on this show really are amazing. 

Absolutely!! When the guards were looking for the young witch behind all those bright hanging sheets, I got dizzy watching them weave in and out. All the bright colors contrasted with the drabness of the town is really spot on.

[adam807]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

When the house started rolling, I was suddenly taken back in time to that Lionel Ritchie video.

My notes: "The door is locked. Dancing on the ceiling!" :)

I think the idea is that the new girl just ignites whenever she feels threatened, and a pile of strange ladies falling on top of you would certainly feel threatening. But it's true that the wizard wouldn't know that. Also if the pit was meant to trap her or protect her or both, why was it uncovered then? I watched it again last night (I watch screeners for the write-ups but my boyfriend watches too so I often see at least parts of them again when they air) and it made even less sense on repeat viewing. 

[JenE4]

3 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Absolutely!! When the guards were looking for the young witch behind all those bright hanging sheets, I got dizzy watching them weave in and out. All the bright colors contrasted with the drabness of the town is really spot on.

That's a good point. What is that cloth for? The townspeople only wear gray/brown, and everyone else is always in their standard uniform color. The only one who is ever in jazzy outfits is Lady, or rather Queen, Ev. Maybe that's Oz's big export: cloth to the land of Ev*--since they made a point of expecting Ev to create the guns to import to Oz. Then of course they have quite the human trafficking ring between Oz and the North.

*I think Ev is also the kingdom's name?

[cooksdelight]

The big pots of liquid were the same colors. I wondered if it was dye for the cloth, or something more sinister.

[phoenics]

Count me in the minority who prefers Dorothy and Lucas.  I was actually revolted when Roan (I like that name better - would love to be with a guy named Roan, lol) kissed Glinda.  Sorry not sorry.  There's something about Joely Richardson's face I just don't like and haven't liked since day one.  Her face looks slimy to me - or maybe it's the overall character I don't like.  I prefer West to Glinda.

Also - does Roan really remember Glinda or was that a spell she cast?  Or was Roan really a horrible sort of lot before he met Dorothy and now his old (bad) self with Glinda and his new (good?) self with Dorothy will be at war?  Hence the promo?  I will say that I'm really intrigued to learn what's going to happen with Roan - and what was he like in his past?  I really, really wanna know.

Even though I really don't like Glinda (how on earth could she live in such a cold, sterile environment when she presumably has a hot guy like Roan at her beck and call?), I would like to know more about her - was she always a frigid bitch?  And was she still a frigid bitch with Roan?  And WHY have there been ZERO hints from her about the loss of Roan?  He couldn't have meant much to her then.  Even now he feels more like a tool to her than someone she really cares about.

I do think Dorothy and Lucas have chemistry worth fighting for so I want to see what happens with that.

Glad Tip's story is finally unfurling.

Lady Ev giving a helpless Jack a handjob in the woods was disgusting.  First - he's still her slave.  Secondly, he was unable to resist what she did because he was immobile, which puts her actions with him in the realm of sexual assault - especially given he asked her beforehand not to do anything untoward.  If this had been reversed and it was a man doing this to a woman, there'd be screams of bloody murder.  I hate it when women aren't held accountable for heinous acts of sexual assault because the men are seen as "lucky" to get the attention.

Overall I found this episode confusing and just poorly done.  I actually thought it was the worst episode all season and the Roan/GIinda thing felt just as horribly soapish as I thought it would. could barely hear Lucas/Roan at the end and had trouble hearing what happened with the witch of fire and all of that... I guess I'll need to watch it again.

13 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

That's a good point. What is that cloth for? The townspeople only wear gray/brown, and everyone else is always in their standard uniform color. The only one who is ever in jazzy outfits is Lady, or rather Queen, Ev. Maybe that's Oz's big export: cloth to the land of Ev*--since they made a point of expecting Ev to create the guns to import to Oz. Then of course they have quite the human trafficking ring between Oz and the North.

*I think Ev is also the kingdom's name?

East wore really bright garments too.

[Andrew Wiggin]

4 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Lady Ev giving a helpless Jack a handjob in the woods was disgusting.  First - he's still her slave.  Secondly, he was unable to resist what she did because he was immobile, which puts her actions with him in the realm of sexual assault - especially given he asked her beforehand not to do anything untoward.

I dont think she gave him a Handjob ,she used the Lube to get his Leg going again ,yeah she did tease him and was aware that she was doing but nothing else happend ^^

[phoenics]

1 minute ago, Andrew Wiggin said:

I dont think she gave him a Handjob ,she used the Lube to get his Leg going again ,yeah she did tease him and was aware that she was doing but nothing else happend ^^

I think everyone else here thinks it was a handjob.  And even if she just "teased" him - that's still wrong because she was clearly teasing him sexually.

[Andrew Wiggin]

It might be wrong ,but if you watchted it again yeah she got near his croin area but only to get his leg moving .

She might be teasing him but it was still necessary to get his Leg moving and he was not that upset about that she was doing.

[KingOfHearts]

She definitely didn't give him a handjob, imo. The scene was alluding to one, and Langwidere knew it, but the sex didn't come until later when she took her top off. 

[cooksdelight]

21 minutes ago, phoenics said:

There's something about Joely Richardson's face I just don't like

Her nose doesn't fit the rest of her face.

I didn't think it was a handjob either. I just kept laughing at poor Jack not having his oil can handy.

[phoenics]

13 minutes ago, Andrew Wiggin said:

It might be wrong ,but if you watchted it again yeah she got near his croin area but only to get his leg moving .

She might be teasing him but it was still necessary to get his Leg moving and he was not that upset about that she was doing.

He still said for her not to do that - or are we redefining the definition of sexual assault because it's a woman doing it to a man?  No doesn't really mean no if you enjoy it?  I've said "No" plenty of times even if my body reacted with "Yes".  My verbal command should be enough to stop unwanted advances.

Jack specifically said, "Give me your word... you won't go anywhere you shouldn't."  And then Ev promised as a Lady.  And then when he questioned her about it later, she replied she's a Queen.  Basically - she violated him when he expressly asked her not to.  Maybe the show is making a statement about unwanted advances - he advanced on Tip when she didn't want it and fell to his almost death.  And now it's Lady Ev doing the advancing.  Ultimately yes it looks like he wants to do it later on with her - but that doesn't mean she wasn't wrong advancing on him in the first place.  It just looks like she wore him down.  And it's STILL problematic that he's essentially still a slave to her.  Can a slave EVER actually give consent to his/her master?  Think Sally Hemmings and Thomas Jefferson.

Edited February 11, 2017 by phoenics

[JenE4]

35 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I think everyone else here thinks it was a handjob.  And even if she just "teased" him - that's still wrong because she was clearly teasing him sexually.

Put my vote down with Andrew. They definitely made his reaction SEEM like that was what was happening--with his O face and his "What, that's it?" reaction when she stopped "oiling him." But then they panned back and he was just loosening up his knee--with pants in place. And I thought it was supposed to be like a joke on the viewers, haha your "dirty minds." Plus then when she led him to the bedroom he was very timid to her seduction, and if all that had already happened in the woods, he probably would have caught on why she was showing him her new bedroom. So I think the woods scene was overtly sexual as foreshadowing, but nothing happened there yet. In the woods once I realized what I thought was happening at first wasn't really happening, I kind of chuckled to myself that he wouldn't even have any original parts down there, right? Isn't he all tin aside from right arm/shoulder and head? Then when Queen Ev disrobed, huh, yeah, I really didn't want to find myself analyzing whether the woman who fixed him (was that Joan the scientist??) set him up with a steampunk dildo** to match his heart. But, here we are. I really don't think there's any chance of original parts, though.

Anyway,  I'd rather focus on Lucas's original parts instead! Someone also mentioned how many times are they going to show him with his shirt off. For this one, put my vote down for as many scenes as possible! Give him a witch's curse that he has a higher than average body temperature and can't wear a shirt because he needs to constantly cool off to self-regulate his body temperature.

**Edited to add: If I ever start a band, I'm totally calling it Steampunk Dildo.

Edited February 11, 2017 by JenE4

[phoenics]

At the risk of going on too much about this - if he's completely metal below, how could he feel anything Lady Ev did?  She had to touch real, actual skin for him to feel something - right?

And I never thought he "finished" when she did whatever she did.

[cooksdelight]

I think he's got all his manly parts, his legs, one arm and heart/clock are new.

Edited February 11, 2017 by cooksdelight

[JenE4]

11 minutes ago, phoenics said:

At the risk of going on too much about this - if he's completely metal below, how could he feel anything Lady Ev did?  She had to touch real, actual skin for him to feel something - right?

And I never thought he "finished" when she did whatever she did.

I don't know. I always thought it a bit odd that he acts like an old man with arthritis with his stiff joints, like his arms and legs do hurt him. Maybe he was all shredded up from the fall, but his guts were just poured into the metal like an exoskeleton, but he still has nerves inside? I think we are over analyzing, lol.

[Fireball]

11 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Anyway,  I'd rather focus on Lucas's original parts instead! Someone also mentioned how many times are they going to show him with his shirt off. For this one, put my vote down for as many scenes as possible! Give him a witch's curse that he has a higher than average body temperature and can't wear a shirt because he needs to constantly cool off to self-regulate his body temperature.

I bet there's a clause in the actors contract that he must be shirtless once an episode. :D I have no idea if Roan has been shirtless every episode, but it seems like it.

5 hours ago, sjohnson said:

The house rolling, the hanging sheets, the mingled purity and sterility of Glinda's castle, the bizarre execution of the council...the visuals on this show really are amazing. 

The visuals really are fantastic! I thought the hanging sheets were the best. Also I liked the rolling house; it reminded me of original farmhouse from the movie. Glinda's castle really could use an interior decorator. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

The visuals really are fantastic! I thought the hanging sheets were the best. Also I liked the rolling house; it reminded me of original farmhouse from the movie. Glinda's castle really could use an interior decorator. 

I thought so too. The crew did an awesome job without resorting to CGI. (Take notes, Once Upon a Time.) They could have just showed the house shaking, and did an exterior CGI house rolling, with close-ups of the actors' faces. But nope - we see the entire interior slant. 

Glinda has a obsession fetish for white, that's for sure.

Quote

The question is - how much does Roan remembers from being Lucas? Are his feelings toward Glinda weaker now that he had 'a moment' with Dorothy? What about Silvie? Are her loyalties with Glinda or Dorothy now? Will she be willing to harm Glinda if Dorothy's in danger? (I hope)

I think it all depends on Glinda's intentions. If he sees her as legitimately more selfless than Dorothy, he'll probably side with her. If he thinks Glinda's motives are twisted, he might betray her. I'm leaning toward the former. (Though, I don't believe for a second that Glinda is "good". She just happens to be on a different side from the Wizard.)

Edited February 11, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[phoenics]

Yeah - I definitely don't think Glinda is "good".  I'm getting shades of Julianne Moore's character from The Hunger Games.  Just because there are two opposing sides doesn't mean either side is good.  Both can be bad forces out for power.

I do think freeing the witches is a good cause - because no one should be oppressed - but Glinda seems to be doing it for power and not good.

Shockingly, West seems to be the most "good" one there.

When will we get to see South?

[attica]

6 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

He's gotten his brain back, it seems. 

One of them, anyway.

[SimoneS]

Glinda is the good witch. She may not be "good" like a child's fairytale, but she is. She might not do things are particularly likable, but that doesn't mean that she is bad rather she is pragmatic.

I find the lead actress playing Dorothy to be bland, but even if she wasn't, I don't see her relationship with Roan going any where so I cannot take it seriously. Dorothy, herself, just announced that she was booking it back to Kansas first chance she got. She isn't staying in Oz and he isn't going to Kansas. I suppose there could be a fight for his loyalty before she leaves him or he dies. I just don't see the appeal in that scenario.   

[Fireball]

17 hours ago, Senna said:

Geez, that scene with Jack and Lady Ev in the woods was really cringey.  I'm really not sure what they're aiming for with those two; I certainly didn't find it either sexy or romantic.

I didn't find it sexy or romantic either; I really can't get on the Jack + Lady Ev bandwagon. The pairing creeps me out Lady/Queen Ev owns Jack; does Jack honestly have a choice if he wants to sleep with her or not?

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

Lady Ev giving a helpless Jack a handjob in the woods was disgusting.  First - he's still her slave.  Secondly, he was unable to resist what she did because he was immobile, which puts her actions with him in the realm of sexual assault - especially given he asked her beforehand not to do anything untoward.  If this had been reversed and it was a man doing this to a woman, there'd be screams of bloody murder.  I hate it when women aren't held accountable for heinous acts of sexual assault because the men are seen as "lucky" to get the attention.

I didn't like the scene either. I don't care that Jack ended up liking the Oil Job / Hand Job; he made Lady Ev promise not to go anywhere she didn't need to (I guess we can argue she only went where she needed to). But Ev response to Jack's "you promised" was I'm a Queen not a Lady. ( so my impression was that Lady Ev did in fact go where she didn't need to).  imo the scene just felt wrong.  Like you said, if we switched Jack's and Ev's gender more people would probably have found the scene disturbing.  

 

Speaking of the scene why in the world did Jack go wondering through the screaming forest when there was a nice road right there he could have walked on?

Edited February 11, 2017 by Fireball

[sjohnson]

Jack reproached Langwidere for breaking her word as a lady not to go where she shouldn't (i.e., penis, whether the original or a metal replacement.) She counters she's not a lady, she's a queen and proceeds. Jack has an orgasm pretty quickly, looking dazed, then briefly smiling. Then there's innuendo from Langwidere about whether he's "finished." Sorry, don't think there's any room whatsoever for any ambiguity on this at all. Jack kissing Tip, the soldiers demanding to look inside the wagon, the old king looking at Sylvie, the "medical exams" of the girls, the soldiers entering the room looking for the witch, the soldier talking dirty to a woman working in a whorehouse, are the only incidents that count as sexual assaults, though. I think that's all of them but given it's short run, that's an awful lot. I except the takeaway is supposed to be sisterhood rising up against rape culture.

[Fireball]

2 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

Jack reproached Langwidere for breaking her word as a lady not to go where she shouldn't (i.e., penis, whether the original or a metal replacement.) She counters she's not a lady, she's a queen and proceeds. Jack has an orgasm pretty quickly, looking dazed, then briefly smiling. Then there's innuendo from Langwidere about whether he's "finished."

I thought the sequence happened in this order Jack make Ev promise not to go where she shouldn't; En goes where she shouldn't; Jack has an orgasm; Jack reproaches Ev for breaking her promise; Lady Ev says I'm not a Lady I'm a Queen!

[sjohnson]

On reflection (but not reviewing,) I think Fireball is right.

[phoenics]

One thing seems clear though - that the show appears to be an allegory for womanhood rising up against misogyny?  Or that's definitely a takeaway.

There is sexual imagery all throughout this show:  the beast forever using magic to show the impotence of the wizard, lady ev and her sexual domination/assault/intimidation of Jack, Tip's story, all of the witches being women w the male wizard associating himself with "science" - which historically was kept as the domain of men by the patriarchy, the soldiers penetrating the colorful cloth (really striking if the previous' poster's suggestion that the clothing represents a woman's vagina is correct), West's whorehouse vs North's nunnery (with Tip's "so my only choices as a woman are whore, or nun?")...

The show is a women's studies project.

The only thing I cannot figure out or haven't figured out is how Dorothy fits.  Each of the other women characters have very strong storylines and PoV, whereas Dorothy is (understandably) only interested in going home.  She's a "healer".  She's from our world, where science rules.  Maybe she's a stand in for "us, the audience" but I think I could get into her story more if I understood her connection to THIS story.  I like Dorothy and I like her story with Lucas, but right now, only Lucas/Roan and Sylvie seem to tie her to Oz.  And honestly right now, she could kind of lift right out of the story and all of the drama still happening on the show could STILL happen.

Maybe Dorothy is meant to be a bridge between the two sides?  Although Tip could fill that role - she's not magical and doesn't have a fear of it either.  Dorothy feels more like a destabilising agent - she killed East, brought the gun into Oz (which the Wizard is copying), and is in general disrupting things.  

The way I see it - both The Wizard and Glinda are both bad.  The Wizard is like President Snow from THG and Glinda is like Coin from THG.  Both just seem to want power.

Maybe Glinda will do something in the next episode to change my mind, although

in the promo, she's clearly prompting Lucas/Roan to kill Dorothy, which doesn't paint her in a good light at all.

.

[JenE4]

1 hour ago, Fireball said:

I thought the sequence happened in this order Jack make Ev promise not to go where she shouldn't; En goes where she shouldn't; Jack has an orgasm; Jack reproaches Ev for breaking her promise; Lady Ev says I'm not a Lady I'm a Queen!

Oh, wow! I missed all that! I took it literally that Jack was upset that Ev left him in the screaming woods (or whatever it was called) and was making her promise not to go leaving him someplace where they weren't supposed to be like that again. And then she was trying to make light of the fact that his bringing up her being a queen now is what started the fight, so I might promise as a lady, but haha, I'm no longer Lady Ev, I'm Queen Ev now, so no promises on where we'll go next. But I'm the first to admit that I think the dialogue in this show is so exposition-heavy and dense that I feel like I'm only absorbing like half of what is happening.

[rubinia]

Yeah, she's definitely doing something "untoward" to Jack. She gives her word as a lady, then as she starts "lubing him up" he says "You gave your word!"--implying she's doing something that would go against that word. She says she's not a lady, she's queen. I don't think Jack orgasmed--I think she stopped before he finished. Then she makes a comment like "*Everything* working properly, then?" i.e., his penis still works as normal. I'd vote for handjob for sure.

[zxy556575]

6 hours ago, phoenics said:

Also - does Roan really remember Glinda or was that a spell she cast?

Interesting. I hadn't considered that.

Since Roan was one of the Wizard's guards, was he there as a spy for Glinda? How did he get jiggy with Glinda in the first place? We've only seen her surrounded by and interacting with females, so I'm curious how Roan became part of her circle.

[jhlipton]

Just now, sjohnson said:

{T}he show pretending any grown woman would ... sleep in her bra really is absurdly bashful, as the review notes.

{T}he random wolf pack is symbolic of unruly sexual feelings though, so it isn't random?

The first is Basic Modern Television: all women sleep in their bra or in t-shirts (for every woman I know, the bra comes off when she walks through the door!).

The wolves didn't look vicious -- more like they just wanted to play.

 

Just now, cooksdelight said:

I couldn't help but laugh when Jack was in the woods, stiffening up due to rust. "Where's your oil can???" I yelled. Ev never ceases to be entertaining.

It looked like he kept a can in his arm -- he searches in it -- but the can was not there.

Just now, JenE4 said:

I really didn't want to find myself analyzing whether the woman who fixed him (was that Joan the scientist??) set him up with a steampunk dildo** to match his heart. 

For those of you who like steampunk and erotica, Chester 5000 is really good!

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As far as the "war" goes, I'm on West's side -- she wants to keep as many people, especially the witches, safe as she can.  Now that she's got the chin-tilt mostly under control (she still brings it from time to time), I'm liking her too.  (Note that she brought Tip into her brothel but made it clear that she was not a whore.)