S04.E04: Harvest

[Arwenevenstar]

Season 04. Episode 4

' Morse would LOVE to have a life of Day of the Week sandwiches with Joan'....You are so so right but he's not going to get it is he?

It is so very tragic...Gorgeous bloke...Would love her for ever...Far too good ( imv) for her, and she finds him unexciting. She just always seemed too sensible and grounded to expect that; as being what you got in a relationship. All of a sudden she just seemed to turn into this shallow flootsie type and I'm not really sure of the timing of her personality change. Unless she was actually always like that underneath...but nothing in previous episodes ever suggested such a thing. The chemistry...the loaded looks between them tonight leave me thinking she did care...a lot, for Morse but didn't want to turn into Win.

And then there is, or was, the baby! Have to admit I saw that coming. Joan had become such a ' fallen woman'  that it had to be in there somewhere.

And I don't know what to make of the ending. My OH thinks the next series will be set in London, but I think he stays put...If only because Joan is or could be around, possibly, somewhere...In his life. It is all so unremittingly sad for Morse, on the personal front but we know from the later series that this is indeed how it had always been in his love life.

And those eyes of his! Beautiful. But I just want to see them light up with joy - just never going to happen.

Well, now we have to wait again and 4 is just never enough! If I must mention plot lines, I think this series has not been as satisfying as the earlier ones. Too plot driven and complex, and I am still hoping Truelove does a sidestep out of the series. For me it's all about the characters and the relationships and the links to the older Morse...I can't see that changing.

A really touching part tonight was the quiz in the pub. Morse clearly out if his depth socially..not wanting to be there, but thinking he should do the right thing. Unable to really join in...he played it perfectly and as we know from the older Morse ...He doesn't join things. But in this series he is still trying to fit in. Achingly sad.

[zxy556575]

"Snappy Jenkins" was the best line of the episode. I love Morse's relationship with Miss Frazil. I'm hesitant to call them friends, but at least Morse has one person he trusts and likes enough to spend time with outside of work.

I can't believe Morse is planning to send Thursday a freaking goodbye letter after he quits. That and "Marry me" made he want to give him a good shaking. I did get a laugh out of him being so impatient with all the new agey stuff, and letting Dowsable read his Tarot cards under the guise of questioning her.

Did they say who ransacked Morse's flat and why? I missed it.

Sorry to be indelicate, but I'm worried for Morse's and Thursday's gonads after that radiation exposure! I wasn't entirely sure what exploded and if all the steam was radioactive, but I'm pretty sure any dosimeters would have been pegging the meter.

[humbleopinion]

Dense episode.

The story line about the nuclear power plant...yadda, yadda, yadda...more interested in the Joan and Morse saga.

Joan...Joan...Joan... girlfriend, you are THE worse when it comes to picking men.

Two for two in awfulness.

Which is worse...the guy who only wanted you for inside info on the bank or the married guy who beats you?

Rhetorical question..both bad.

Morse loves you not matter how much you've messed up.

We are left dangling...AGAIN...

Why couldn't Morse go get his medal from the Queen?

Edited February 2, 2017 by humbleopinion

[Popples]

Tarot card lady is John Thaw's widow, Sheila Hancock! They really delivered with connections to celebrate the 30th anniversary.

First Thursday gets shot, then he only has 3 weeks to live (until he mercifully coughed up the bullet fragment), now he almost gets blown up.  Must it always end with them teasing his demise?

Shockingly, Thursday wasn't nearly as angry as I thought he would be when he discovered that Morse found Joan. There was minor tension, but they soon got over it. I wasn't expecting Win to be so (rightfully) angry with them, though.

Oh Joan, guys like that always say they'll leave their wife, but few rarely do.

Surprised to see Morse at Pub Quiz night with Dr. DeBryn, Strange, and Trewlove. Even without other things on his mind, it doesn't really seem like his scene.

I've watched it three times now and it's never said who ransacked Morse's flat. I'm going to blame the people stealing the evidence from Series 2, because I'm still really salty they never wrapped up that storyline.

Frederick Albert Thursday, hmm.

[JudyObscure]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 5:49 PM, Arwenevenstar said:

And then there is, or was, the baby! Have to admit I saw that coming. Joan had become such a ' fallen woman'  that it had to be in there somewhere.

What now? I'll admit I can only hear about half the dialogue and miss many visual clues, but I'm still surprised I missed a whole baby.  Or was she pregnant?

This morning I remain stunned that Endeavor didn't tell Thursday he had seen Joan.  I know she asked him not to, but it's his call to make.  Mrs.  Thursday is depressed, agoraphobic and nearly suicidal.  She must be told that Joan is okay.  Maybe learning that Joan is some lying married man's mistress would help her mother, too.  I'm sure that isn't half as bad as some of the things she's imagined. It will motivate her to rejoin life and go talk some sense into her daughter.

[graybrown bird]

I'm wondering if the references to a baby and a pub quiz are from the finale.  I think they originated in a single post from the UK airing last winter. I hope I'm wrong as I try to avoid spoilers.

[M. Darcy]

It kind of amused me that John Thaw's widow got to kill someone. 

[Magnumfangirl]

I've never wanted to smack a TV character this much before!  Morse doesn't contradict Joan when she says she doesn't want his pity and then he walks out on her when she clearly wanted him at the hospital.  I love the show, but come on Endeavour is not this clueless!  The killer's story seemed to hit home for him and then he freaking leaves her??  I know they can't have a happily ever after, but give him (and the viewers) something with Joan even if it's only for a little while.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Magnumfangirl

[fauntleroy]

I didn't get what Joan's condition was at the end. Anyway what a dope the Thursdays seem to have raised!

[Pickles]

So, Joan intentionally caused herself to fall in order to lose the baby. And Morse is going to London? No idea who ransacked his apartment or why?

[Popples]

18 minutes ago, fauntleroy said:

I didn't get what Joan's condition was at the end. Anyway what a dope the Thursdays seem to have raised!

Joan was pregnant and deliberately fell down to cause a miscarriage. The doctor said she was young and they could try again in a few months.

[jjj]

Wait!  Didn't his citation say "Detective Sergeant Morse"?  It went by so fast!  And how much time elapsed in the final minute -- a month???!  (Have the Queen decide on the award, send the letter about the award, go to a ceremony in London, take home movies...)  ETA:  Yes, his citation did say "Detective Sergeant Morse," and Bright also read it that way from the letter.  So, the letter arrived sometime after the incident, and the London visit would have been later yet.  All this takes more than a month, to decide about the award and then arrange to present it.  Hard to tell if Bright or someone found that examination and just went ahead and passed it.  And it was his new identification/warrant card that Morse picked up on the desk, so it is all official. 

Clearly, we missed a quiz session at a pub -- in the credits, there was a "Quizmaster" as one of the characters, and the posts above from the British airing indicate a pub event.

Yes, Joan was pregnant, and she must have been carrying Morse's contact information, because the doctor seemed to think Morse was the father ("you can try again").  This time, I would expect him to tell Thursday his daughter is in hospital.  After all, now Thursday knows Joan is no innocent -- and they don't have to tell Win everything.

So, if he indeed was awarded "Sergeant" rank somehow, I expect him to stay -- and we know he ends up in Oxford forever, so that is no surprise.  How many special secret citations for secret activities has this Queen awarded, I wonder? 

ETA:  the red-letter clues spell out "Alan Sillitoe," the chief "angry young writer" of the postwar era -- I am not familiar with how his work ties into this episode.  ETA2:  Oh, he wrote "The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner," which is the film the sister said she saw with the victim ("about the borstal boy who becomes a runner," she said) (borstal means from a home for delinquents)  (ALSO:  JOHN THAW had a bit part in that film!).  By the way, the victim sounds like a nasty piece of work:  drinking fighting, hitting women...

Edited September 11, 2017 by jjj

[magdalene]

Once I knew the killer was the shepherd/gamekeeper I wasn't all that eager for him to be brought to justice.  Even abstractly I couldn't muster much sympathy for the victim.

I felt bad for the dog.   And there was so much of the old ways about the village and this darkly Gothic Mellors that he and the village seemed somehow set apart from any "modern" justice.  So it was rather fitting that the old witch saved him from rotting in a cell.

This show always does so well in setting the mood and the atmosphere of the world we enter into through the investigations of Morse and Thursday.  The village seemed closer to Pagan times in important ways and having that power station near it was just WRONG.

I know Morse is destined to never have happiness with a woman but his thing with Joan is making me mutter at the screen and go good grief.

[jjj]

55 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I felt bad for the dog.  

What, did something happen to the dog?

I found the pub scene in a Spanish subtitled version of the episode online; it was short; but they also cut a longer scene in the Magdalen College Chapel, which is where they went to find the older professor -- it is a lovely scene, with a Bach organ work being played, and the chapel is spectacular (of course) -- here is an image of the chapel: 

Edited September 11, 2017 by jjj

[7-Zark-7]

4 hours ago, Magnumfangirl said:

Morse doesn't contradict Joan when she says she doesn't want his pity and then he walks out on her when she clearly wanted him at the hospital.

Joan may not want Morse there romantically so much as strategically. Calling him her husband prevents the hospital from searching for her next of kin and finding her father. It's bad enough Thursday had to find out about her shacking up with a married "fancy man", but his learning that his daughter aborted a pregnancy might be too much for either of them to bear. Morse was right to keep walking. Joan may be in distress, but when she's ready, she'll figure out how to get out of it.

 

On 2/1/2017 at 4:30 PM, humbleopinion said:

Why couldn't Morse go get his medal from the Queen?

I've never watched the Morse series, so I don't know, is Morse a Republican? Maybe he doesn't support the Monarchy.

First Morse's exam goes missing, then his flat is broken into. I'd laugh my ass off if it turns out to be the mother of his ex-girlfriend from college. Not pulling strings or paying off anyone else to do it... just her... in black gloves, laughing maniacally the entire time. She's eeeevil.

[tootsie]

I enjoyed the bookend episodes of this season more than the interiors. Unlike many of the forum participants, I'm more interested in the mystery part than the Joan/Morse thing. (There's something about knowing the senior Morse that makes it almost superfluous to me.) As soon as the doc's sister (thought something about that bro/sis relationship was off - in a creepy way - "but a brother isn't like a husband, right?" says the unrequited lover) unloaded the truth, I knew who the murderer was. (Sir, man up but do NOT shoot your dog!!)

I find the many sides of Thursday interesting, from brutal thug to tender husband to relentless and courageous saver-of-the-empire to grinning medal recipient. For me, he's the puzzle within the puzzle. Also enjoyed the constant juxtaposition of atomic power with superstition and the mystical "old ways" & the dark, Oz-like presence of the scarecrow from the  beginning.

Another season done (sad face) but the ending was satisfying. For me anyway, it felt right - good to see Win smiling again (there now, Joan, was it that hard to call your mum?) - and an explanation of sorts for each episode's Tarot cards, too.

Thanks to all for your insights about cast etc. Was there a Colin Dexter tease in this one? 

[JudyObscure]

I enjoyed the series but every episode left me feeling so sad.  Shaun Evans is responsible for most of that, he may be the new Eddie Redmayne  for playing sad young man parts. I look forward to seeing him again.

[Driad]

Did they check the prescription of the eyeglasses to see if it matched that of the missing man? 

Why are so many British dramas so depressing? 

[M. Darcy]

Quote

I know Morse is destined to never have happiness with a woman

He does in the end.  The last few shows and books he's dating Sister Janet McQueen (a nurse).  She's the one that convinces him to tell Lewis his first name and he leaves her 1/3 of his estate in his will. 

Quote

Clearly, we missed a quiz session at a pub

Curse you PBS! I would have watched an entire episode on that.  Heh, which I guess I did on Lewis (without the pub). 

Quote

Joan was pregnant and deliberately fell down to cause a miscarriage.

Do we know that she fell on purpose or was she pushed when she was back to get her things? 

[tootsie]

2 minutes ago, M. Darcy said:

He does in the end.  The last few shows and books he's dating Sister Janet McQueen (a nurse).  She's the one that convinces him to tell Lewis his first name and he leaves her 1/3 of his estate in his will. 

Curse you PBS! I would have watched an entire episode on that.  Heh, which I guess I did on Lewis (without the pub). 

Do we know that she fell on purpose or was she pushed when she was back to get her things? 

My memory is hazy but though they seemed happy together, didn't McQueen move out of the country and Morse stay behind? Also, I never thought Joan fell on purpose but thought as you suggested that she returned for her things and had a confrontation with her lover.

[jrlr]

We are supposed to think that Morse does move to London, right?  His apartment was stripped nearly bare inthe last scene and it wasn't just from having been burgled.  And that he got his promotion, like his commendation and medal, for his courageous actions?

I loved the juxtaposition of that druid-ish village against the power plant and this was a wonderfullly moody episode.  They've used a lot of the pagan stuff on Midsomer, and it's always a bit of a shcok to see it inthe 20th century..  I half expected the creepy scarecrow to be the dead man's skeleton. 

Can't stand Joan - she's selfish and none to bright - and except for the Morse-is-unlucky-in-love theme, I don't understand why he is so ga-ga over her. 

[sinycalone]

At first, I thought it was so cold that Morse walked out of the hospital....then realized, as someone said, upthread, she needed to sort things out for herself.  Obviously, he is not leaving Oxford (not after his promotion), so he can be found if she decides he was not just feeling pity for her.

So, that was Thaw's widow playing the "witch?"  I really had little sympathy for the victim...so the shepherd's facing many years in prison seemed unfair in some ways.  The witch solved that problem.

 

Thanks for the vision of Susan's mother being the burglar!  Made my morning.

[M. Darcy]

Quote

We are supposed to think that Morse does move to London, right?

But knowing what we know, I don't think any history of him moving to London.  But maybe there are years we don't know about. 

Quote

didn't McQueen move out of the country and Morse stay behind?

Hmm.  I'll have to check my books when I get home tonight.  My memory was just she was out of town on a trip when he went into the hospital at the end of Remorseful Day. 

Quote

I half expected the creepy scarecrow to be the dead man's skeleton. 

I always think of scarecrows as being the son from the Family of Blood from Doctor Who. 

[magdalene]

8 hours ago, jjj said:

What, did something happen to the dog?

His person was shot to death right in front of him. I would call that traumatic.

[attica]

9 hours ago, magdalene said:

 The village seemed closer to Pagan times

The appearance of a guy doing what looked like Bojack Horseman cosplay in the pageant made me laugh.

 

2 hours ago, jrlr said:

We are supposed to think that Morse does move to London, right?

I didn't. I took his expression upon looking at the medal (and hearing Bright say 'detective sergeant') that he felt like he could stay. But I'll allow that my confirmation bias might have been leading my reading of the scene.

When the tarot lady said Morse's journey would lead to death, I literally warned my teevee set: "Don't you dare kill my Thursday!"

I know that Morse's pining for Joan is meant to be romantic and rueful, but, come on. He's said maybe a paragraph of words to her since being introduced, none of which were personal, let alone romantic, and then it's "Marry me." No, dude. How could a thinking woman take such a thing seriously, regardless of the straits she's in?  His romance with Joan is all in his head; he doesn't get points for proposing to her in a vulnerable moment. And kissing her while she's comatose so there can be no consent, refusal, rejection?  Yeeesh.   

[SusanSunflower]

Everyone's feelings and motivations (of the ongoing soap opera of Morse, the Thursdays, and the police station) was so opaque I was left frustrated, suspecting that I was projecting motives and rationales rather than seeing some story-as-written (or intended) ... Regardless, Joan did not "share" news of her pregnancy with Morse and my suspicion in the closing moment was that realizing this was a wake-up call to Morse that Joan and her situation was more complex than "damsel in distress".  Personally, I wondered if Morse realized that Joan was -- essentially -- using and manipulating him, throwing whatever affection he may have felt from her into question.  Like her married lover, Morse was there, eager and able to "help", and/or to be "used" 

Similarly, for some reason, my impression was that Joan had thrown herself down the stairs in-order-to miscarry (a rarely successful method) ... but she may have invented a trip-and-fall to cover being thrown down the stairs by Mr. Married (since battered women do conceal the violence for reasons of their own, to avoid prying eyes and inconvenient police inquiries).  I hope it's the end of Joan and Morse (which would have been such a bad pairing IRL even in the best of times) 

Fwiw, by the magic of google and wikipedi wrt to the UK

Quote

The Abortion Act 1967 sought to clarify the law. Introduced by David Steel and subject to heated debate, it allowed for legal abortion on a number of grounds, with the added protection of free provision through the National Health Service. The Act was passed on 27 October 1967 and came into effect on 27 April 1968.

Did they mention how-far-along Joan was?   Wondering exactly when and how she hooked up with Mr. Married ... but honestly I wasn't paying rapt attention ... Was Morse less than chuffed about the medal because it was in large part a reward for a successful cover-up .... Thursday, being older, was delighted for the honor and joy it gave his wife.... sort of thing that would be mentioned in his obituary ... iykwim. 

Still the best thing on my TV (not getting premium cable and having very spotty internet for streaming) but Morse seems oddly less defined now than he did at the start of this year... yes, looking forward to next season.  

Shaun Evans has lost much of his Remayne-like qualities ... It will be interesting to see him in non-Morse projects, much as I look forward to Remayne in some future less one-off "unique" role.  I grew weary and never finished Fantastic Beasts, the sequels  to which (multiple planned) iirc have him under extended contract ... very tired of having many of our best actors tied up in fantasy and comic book stories and CGI (seems to dull them) 

Edited September 11, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[atlantaloves]

I loved loved loved this episode....I cheered when Thursday beat the crap out of that "fancy man" his daughter was messing with. I just love Thursday. I think Joan is a bitch, but at least she finally called her Mum, who I adore, and hope is back to making sandwiches for her hubby.  This show has been renewed, right? I am pretty sure it has.  I just love it, all the characters, it's just done so well. Morse, never change honey, but asking Joan to marry you, damn, I almost peed in my pink panties. Anyway, to me this was the best episode of this season!

 

Oh guys, about the dog at the end, what was almost horrible was the killer shepherd was going to kill his dog as he knew he was going to prison. That was just something you did back then. I am glad the dog was spared and happy that the tarot card witch woman blasted him, it was a kind thing to do in this case.  They should just let her off for killing him as far as I am concerned. 

[Popples]

4 hours ago, M. Darcy said:

Do we know that she fell on purpose or was she pushed when she was back to get her things? 

That is another interpretation of what could have happened. Maybe they touch on it next series, but I don't have high hopes.

The pub quiz scene happens right before Morse returns to his ransacked flat.

[Mermaid Under]

I had an offhand question,  and another thought about Joan's pregnancy (apparently mentioned in the previous episode, unless you happened to be in the US).

The killer shepherd/gamekeeper - for folks in England, what accent was he supposed to have?

Joan's pregnancy - because Morse handed her a pile of money when she came by (idiot) I assumed she used his cash for a back alley abortion.  The falling down the steps is an unrelated red herring - either an accident, some sort of cover up, or her married lover  is both a cheater and violent.  Or perhaps  the doctor is sympathetic to the plight of women needing to get rid of unwanted pregnancies, and is covering for her with that old fall down the steps and miscarry malarkey.

[SusanSunflower]

There is no way to confuse a spontaneous (traumatic or otherwise) miscarriage with a gravid (pregnant) uterus surgically scraped clean.  I had wondered about the money too, but I don't think (am I wrong?) that Morse knew she was pregnant until the doctor told him ... 

There was a date stamp at the start, but I don't remember what it was --- As linked above, abortion was both legal and covered by national health as of April 1968 ...  God knows some -- now and then -- people object to the idea of termination but may pray for a miscarriage or throw themselves down stairs as "natural" and/or god's will.  People who oppose abortion nonetheless bite the bullet have abortions to terminate unwanted or inconvenient ("disasterous") pregnancies 

I'm not sure that Joan and Morse have actually had a substantive conversation yet -- about anything!! -- much less her "situation".  IMHO, He's mistaking his anxiety and caring about Joan, in her predicament, and the prospect of "losing her" with "love". .. and I'm pretty sure she's not in love with him, even if she is grateful, even if she really "likes" him ... 

ETA:  This episode reminded me again of just how alone in the world Morse is -- beyond Work and The Thursdays -- he's got no one (except his unmentioned again sister).  Joan has her mom and dad and bro -- but also has her circle of friends and school chums, she's local, a townie ... Morse is neither. 

Edited September 11, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[jjj]

2 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

  This show has been renewed, right? I am pretty sure it has.  

Not only has it been renewed, the next season will have *six* episodes!  Will air in 2018.   They started filming in April, so it's really happening!

I'd love to have this on every Sunday -- but the quality is more important, so I'll wait.  (not that I have any choice)

The time stamp at the start of "Harvest" was September 1962, five years earlier than the episode. 

54 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

There was a date stamp at the start, but I don't remember what it was ---  

Edited September 11, 2017 by jjj

[fauntleroy]

I can't imagine a more difficult and less effective method than pitching yourself down stairs - you could end up with broken wrists and worse, and might not even end the pregnancy. Joan is a thoroughgoing idiot though, so maybe it's suitable for her.

[jjj]

I'd love to see Season 5 start with Morse having a beautiful new housemate -- the lovely dog of the shepherd.  (Not that Morse has a dog-care schedule, but I'd still like to see it.)

I found pictures of filming Season 5 around Oxford, and will see it we can start a thread for that season.  (No dog in sight, but that's just my dream!) 

Edited September 11, 2017 by jjj

[Diane M]

Quote

We are supposed to think that Morse does move to London, right?

I think he will remain in Oxford with his new sergeant title.

I like to think that Morse planned to return to the hospital after she awoke.

That lovely dog would be very unhappy living in an apartment all day.  

Edited September 11, 2017 by Diane M

[tootsie]

11 minutes ago, jjj said:

I'd love to see Season 5 start with Morse having a beautiful new housemate -- the lovely dog of the shepherd.  (Not that Morse has a dog-care schedule, but I'd still like to see it.)

I found pictures of filming Season 5 around Oxford, and will see it we can start a thread for that season.  (No dog in sight, but that's just my dream!) 

Yes, that. Plus the bird from the murdered widow of episode 3. "No girl," he can tell Frazill, "but I have pets now."

[SusanSunflower]

me too. I didn't think he was abandoning her, more that he'd had a realization that the situation was (and had been) much more complicated than he knew/thought; she was not quite the person he thought she was (that fantasy that he was in love with); and that he had proposed to a woman pregnant with another man's baby ... oh my ... 

She also -- by giving him as contact person -- had ensnared him in more secrets and cover-up particularly wrt to her parents .... 

Edited September 11, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[Magnumfangirl]

Joan is not an idiot nor is she a bitch.  She is traumitzed by seeing her friend and co-worker (and occasional date) get murdered, the fact that both she and Morse nearly died, plus seeing her father come close to shooting someone.  She is also confused by the role she played in all of it and I'm pretty sure she's frustrated by Morse's inability tosay what needs to be said.  She all but said that when he found her in Lemington.  

I don't think Morse had any idea she was pregnant, but I think she thinks he knew and tossed out the proposal as a way to fix her situation.  Why else would she assume he was pitying her?

Edited September 11, 2017 by Magnumfangirl

[fauntleroy]

An idiotic thing is her sticking up for her fancy man, saying the shiner he gave her was her fault, because she 'provoked' him. Ugh come on.

[Endeavour]

7 hours ago, attica said:

When the tarot lady said Morse's journey would lead to death, I literally warned my teevee set: "Don't you dare kill my Thursday!"

And kissing her while she's comatose so there can be no consent, refusal, rejection?  Yeeesh.   

I was so concerned for Thursday - very tense. First with almost being shot and then the grenade - they really strung that out. I'm not convinced Endeavour's "journey" is over. Was the shepard's death the one she was referring to? I don't think so - not meaningful enough. I'm afraid Thursday's death will be at the end of this series and will play into Endeavour's character becoming the Morse we know. 

And didnt Endeavour kiss Joan on the forehead in the hospital? I didn't think that was an issue. If not, I'll have to rewatch. 

5 hours ago, Popples said:

The pub quiz scene happens right before Morse returns to his ransacked flat.

I didn't get the pub scene. Who invited Endeavour? If that's when his flat was ransacked, maybe there's a clue there as to who was involved. 

4 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

I had wondered about the money too, but I don't think (am I wrong?) that Morse knew she was pregnant until the doctor told him ... 

I have nothing to back it up but I thought he knew she was pregnant. I think you could tell by looking at her and she made a comment as to how terribly she messed things up. I didn't think he gave her the money for an abortion but just so she could stay somewhere other than her apartment  

10 hours ago, Driad said:

Why are so many British dramas so depressing? 

Although sad at times, compared to Wallander, this is a comedy.

I really enjoyed this last ep and liked where everything left off. I am a fan of Inspector Morse and watched/own that series. I was initially reluctant to give this series a try but am glad I did. 

[jjj]

15 minutes ago, Endeavour said:

I was so concerned for Thursday - very tense. First with almost being shot and then the grenade - they really strung that out. I'm not convinced Endeavour's "journey" is over. Was the shepard's death the one she was referring to? I don't think so - not meaningful enough. I'm afraid Thursday's death will be at the end of this series and will play into Endeavour's character becoming the Morse we know. 

And didnt Endeavour kiss Joan on the forehead in the hospital? I didn't think that was an issue. If not, I'll have to rewatch. 

I didn't get the pub scene. Who invited Endeavour? If that's when his flat was ransacked, maybe there's a clue there as to who was involved. 

I have nothing to back it up but I thought he knew she was pregnant. I think you could tell by looking at her and she made a comment as to how terribly she messed things up. I didn't think he gave her the money for an abortion but just so she could stay somewhere other than her apartment  

Although sad at times, compared to Wallander, this is a comedy.

I really enjoyed this last ep and liked where everything left off. I am a fan of Inspector Morse and watched/own that series. I was initially reluctant to give this series a try but am glad I did. 

Yes, he kissed her on the forehead, like you would do with a friend or child you are fond of.  She gave the hospital his contact information, so I found this affectionate, not problematic.

The pub quiz night was a work thing -- the pathologist doctor was there, Trewlove, Jim Strange, a few others.

I found it odd/funny that he still had a jar of money in the flat after being robbed. (!)

I don't think Morse knew she was pregnant, but I do think them left that ambiguous intentionally, to give us all something to speculate about.  I was so concerned that it was Fred Friday in hospital -- they showed the phone call right as Bright started reading the letter to Friday, and I feared it was the Morse resignation letter and Friday had a heart attack.  This is why they don't let me write episodes...

Yes, Wallander is like Ingmar Bergman if he had a dark side. (that is sarcasm)  I don't find "Endeavour" depressing -- it has a lot of layers, and a lot of light and dark (okay, mostly dark), but crimes happen in the shadows, generally.  American shows are rarely as nuanced as "Endeavour", although there are certainly exceptions.  And there is plenty of jolly British dreck that never gets aired over here, thank goodness. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by jjj

[Endeavour]

14 minutes ago, jjj said:

I was so concerned that it was Fred Friday in hospital -- they showed the phone call right as Bright started reading the letter to Friday, and I feared it was the Morse resignation letter and Friday had a heart attack.  This is why they don't let me write episodes...

You're not alone! A similar thought flashed through my mind. 

[atlantaloves]

You guys want to see a terrific and REALLY DEPRESSING British cop show give the show DCI Banks a lookie-see.  It is so wonderful.  Nothing makes me happier than a very British detective who is constantly "put upon".  I don't find Endeavor depressing really, any more than I find Inspector Lewis or Inspector Morse depressing.  

Oh yes, and I totally agree with you all that I would love for Endeavor to have that wonderful doggie, however that breed doesn't work in apartment living, however Morse does get a house eventually.  At least he still has the talking bird? The poor guy. 

[jjj]

Oh, dear.  I just realized that my theory/hope of uniting the dog with Morse, plus your reminder about the parrot he took in, would put Morse on a path of acquiring animals that had witnessed the murder of their owners.... I guess that could be a genre.  

19 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

You guys want to see a terrific and REALLY DEPRESSING British cop show give the show DCI Banks a lookie-see.  It is so wonderful.  Nothing makes me happier than a very British detective who is constantly "put upon".  I don't find Endeavor depressing really, any more than I find Inspector Lewis or Inspector Morse depressing.  

Oh yes, and I totally agree with you all that I would love for Endeavor to have that wonderful doggie, however that breed doesn't work in apartment living, however Morse does get a house eventually.  At least he still has the talking bird? The poor guy. 

[M. Darcy]

Quote

I just realized that my theory/hope of uniting the dog with Morse, plus your reminder about the parrot he took in, would put Morse on a path of acquiring animals that had witnessed the murder of their owners.... I guess that could be a genre. 

And later, Lewis wound up with a cat (whose owner was probably murdered) so the tradition continued. 

[officetemp]

Just glad that Thursday survived all the "the journey ends in death" predictions.  I would have been really upset if Thursday had somehow come to harm (again!!).

We'd already seen that Joan's married lover had no trouble with physical violence: ie, the bruise on her cheek (and Morse demanding, "Where is he?!")  If she didn't deliberately throw herself down the steps, I would have no problem in believing that her lover had beat her up and caused her to fall.

I don't think that Morse is really in love with Joan.  I get the feeling that he was/is infatuated with the idea of "being in love with" her or with them "being in love with each other."  And that the infatuation was born at the moment when she said she was leaving and, therefore, for all intents and purposes, made herself unattainable by him and, at the same time, an object of romantic devotion.

As others have already said, I had no sympathy at all for the so-called victim in this particular murder.  He seemed pretty nasty and I felt sorry for the shepherd and his dog. (Was the shepherd the tarot reader's son or nephew?)

[2727]

Snappy Jenkins! 

("Snappy?" "Well, you can be.")

[7-Zark-7]

It’s not love, it’s desperation.

Morse is having a hell of a bad year: He had to confront criminals while keeping Joan alive in a bank hold up; his Sergeant’s Exam went missing (and his boss thinks he should take that as a sign to leave his post); his flat was broken into and ransacked; his relationship with Strange, Joan, Inspector Thursday and even Mrs. Thursday has become strained; the mother of his ex-fiancee took time out of her own mourning to remind him of how inferior she and all her wealthy friends find him; his ex-girlfriend told him he was a disappointing boyfriend; and the last woman to hit on him did it to pick his pocket - a woman so foolhardy she didn’t think twice about wandering around dark tunnels at night… tracking a serial killer, made him look incompetent. 

It’s no accident that Morse didn’t ask romantically, but rather blurted out frantically “Marry me!” in the same way one might yell “Help me!”. Even Miss Frazil, a woman whose opinion he respects, thought his loneliness might be his biggest problem, and Joan seems like a suitable fix. She’s pretty and the daughter of his father figure boss. Sure she’s spiraling from PTSD, but he’s been through the same thing - many times. It’s something he probably thought he could help her handle. But seeing her lying in that hospital bed, having just lost a pregnancy he didn’t appear to know about, helped Morse realize the situation is much more complex and that neither of them are up to the task of saving each other. He came to his senses and kissed her goodbye.

That sigh of relief at the end was about more than becoming a sergeant, it was about one thing finally going right for him.

[2727]

5 hours ago, 7-Zark-7 said:

That sigh of relief at the end was about more than becoming a sergeant, it was about one thing finally going right for him.

Nice summation of Morse's Many Problems. :-)

My impression is that he was unhappy about his promotion because he didn't earn it the normal way. He still holds some resentment about being looked down on as a scholarship student at college and doesn't like being considered a charity case. I think it would have been out of character for him to attend the ceremony with the Queen -- just not his style, plus he was feeling pretty beat down in general.

It was wonderful to see Fred and Win so happy and smiling, though! Awww.

Edited September 14, 2017 by 2727

[watch2much]

Morse picks the wrong women.  WPC Shirley Trewlove is so right for him.  Intelligent, diligent, precise...probably likes opera.....

[Anothermi]

8 hours ago, 2727 said:

I think it would have been out of character for him to attend the ceremony with the Queen -- just not his style, plus he was feeling pretty beat down in general.

Hmmm. From the timing of the scenes, I got the impression that Morse received his award (whatever it was) after the ceremony had taken place. That he didn't actually have a choice to attend or not. The fact that it was just sitting on his desk made me think that once again, IF there was an letter inviting him to received the award from the Queen, he didn't receive it. Just the award and promotion itself.

It felt very... grudgingly... given.  I saw the unexplained bad things that happened to Morse to be signs from the members of the (masons? I forget the secret handshake organization's name) that he was not wanted and should move on. e.g. his misdirected exam paper,  his ransacked apartment.

The fact that Bright gave him the medal at all - because it,too, could have been mislaid - along with the broad reference to his promotion, surprised me. But made me think that perhaps Bright had started to see some value in Morse.

Full disclosure. I saw this about half a year ago, so I could be way off, but that is what I remember thinking at the end of this episode.