S03.E10: And the Wrath of Chaos

[formerlyfreedom]

The Librarians' two-front battle comes to a head when the Library is simultaneously infiltrated by DOSA and Apep. Flynn, Baird, Stone, Cassandra, Ezekiel and Jenkins must all put aside their differences in an attempt to save the Library, the world and themselves.

 

[johntfs]

What differences must they put aside?  Aside from Flynn popping in and out, everyone else works together very well as a team.  I wonder if the person who wrote this episode description also wrote the one about the "obnoxious" Cindy Kroger, who, you know, really wasn't obnoxious at all.

[Chaos Theory]

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

What differences must they put aside?  Aside from Flynn popping in and out, everyone else works together very well as a team.  I wonder if the person who wrote this episode description also wrote the one about the "obnoxious" Cindy Kroger, who, you know, really wasn't obnoxious at all.

"Differences" may be the wrong word but these descriptions are always vague and unreliable.  We do know Flynn has been lying to Baird and she knows now and might have disconnected herself from the library as an end run around him.  We know Jake and Cassandra have vastly different views on magic and with Jake being given the magic tattoo that might be a source of discontent between them.  Plus Baird may not be completely against DOSA at this point,  So "differences" may be a vague descriptive term but not inaccurate.

[BooksRule]

I knew that Baird was working with someone, but I thought it was Jenkins.  I'm glad they didn't end on a cliffhanger, but I was actually not sure if Flynn would survive or not.  Flynn quietly taking back the artifacts right from under the DOSA agents was funny. 

The DOSA facility looked a lot like Warehouse 13 to me.  And that chamber in the catacombs looked like the Cerebro chamber from the 'X-Men' movies.  Coincidence, or was that done on purpose?

[ganesh]

I figured Eve and Flynn were plotting and keeping the other three out of it when he said he was going to stay behind when they first went to Rushmore. 

1 hour ago, BooksRule said:

The DOSA facility looked a lot like Warehouse 13 to me.  

TOTALLY. #Crossover 

I thought the end to defeat Apep was clever. I was actually on the fence with Flynn. I figure he would "live" but maybe be just in the mirror from now on or something. 

I liked that everything over the course of the season came into play at the end and the teamwork they used to free Jenkins. By being dumb smartly. Cassandra snapping about "not entering the wrong number" was a great line delivery. 

I kind of would have liked a 2 parter because it seemed really quick that Eve fooled the general into thinking she was working for DOSA. Just more time to develop this plot. 

[Frozendiva]

I agree, Ganesh, that the plan to defeat Apep was clever. As an egotistical Egyptian god, he'd be too full of himself and his great plans to see it coming.

Nice to see Vanessa Williams, Jane Curtin, and Bob Newhart. Don't know if Noah Wyle has any other projects in the works, so I didn't think he would be killed off. I do wish Eve's plan had at least been hinted at last week. It just seemed to come from nowhere.

[ganesh]

The entire plan and getting to Flynn also required teamwork which is the best feature of the show. 

I think they integrated Flynn better this season, but there could be improvement. 

[GaT]

Hmm, that felt a little "series finale" to me.

[HunterHunted]

25 minutes ago, BooksRule said:

I knew that Baird was working with someone, but I thought it was Jenkins.  I'm glad they didn't end on a cliffhanger, but I was actually not sure if Flynn would survive or not.  Flynn quietly taking back the artifacts right from under the DOSA agents was funny. 

The DOSA facility looked a lot like Warehouse 13 to me.  And that chamber in the catacombs looked like the Cerebro chamber from the 'X-Men' movies.  Coincidence, or was that done on purpose?

I'm still not sure why the plan needed to be hidden from Jacob, Cassandra, Ezekiel, and Jenkins other than the fact that Jenkins and the other librarians might have objected to DOSA taking possession of the Library. 

[CoderLady]

18 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I'm still not sure why the plan needed to be hidden from Jacob, Cassandra, Ezekiel, and Jenkins other than the fact that Jenkins and the other librarians might have objected to DOSA taking possession of the Library. 

Probably because just as Baird was going to blindly throw herself after Flynn when she realized what he was really planning, they thought the other Librarians would have no doubt tried to stop them and just manage to get in the way or mess everything up.

Edited January 23, 2017 by CoderLady

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, GaT said:

Hmm, that felt a little "series finale" to me.

Every season finale thus far has felt like series finale.  The idea seems to be that if the show isn't renewed it will still have a somewhat satisfying conclusion at the end of whatever season it does end.

[waving feather]

After last week's episode, this was really good. I enjoyed all of it.

Ezekiel, Cassandra and Jake have come a long way, because the chemistry between them now is fantastic. They have a genuine sibling-like dynamic. I think it's even better when it's just the three of them brainstorming without Eve around. That is also the only way they can "grow up". If Flynn has to be around, I like this team-ups of Eve-Flynn and Ezekiel-Cassandra-Jake, and then all of them coming together at the end to kick ass.

Jenkins' expressions while he was in the box were classic. "How many librarians does it take to get Jenkins out of a box?" Ezekiel's indignation over being bested by the government made me LOL.

They made Apep as real boy! Heh. They also made Flynn likable again. They should get him to do more comedy because Noah is really good at that.

I love how excited Ezekiel, Cassandra and Jake still get whenever there is a new clipping in the clippings book. :-) I hope they never lose that.

Edited January 23, 2017 by waving feather

[mammaM]

5 hours ago, johntfs said:

Every season finale thus far has felt like series finale.  The idea seems to be that if the show isn't renewed it will still have a somewhat satisfying conclusion at the end of whatever season it does end.

I actually perfer this. I don't mind a cliffhanger occasionally but I really kinda hate the "we have to have a cliffhanger season finale to make sure you come back next season" . It ends up seeming very contrived and usually the first episode of the next season reverses whatever the cliffhanger was anyway. Just have a fairly well written, entertaining show and I'll come back, no cliffhanger needed

[AlliePK]

8 hours ago, GaT said:

Hmm, that felt a little "series finale" to me.

 

6 hours ago, johntfs said:

Every season finale thus far has felt like series finale.  The idea seems to be that if the show isn't renewed it will still have a somewhat satisfying conclusion at the end of whatever season it does end.

That's kind of a Dean Devlin thing.  He did it with every season of Leverage.

[Skyfall]

43 minutes ago, AlliePK said:

 

That's kind of a Dean Devlin thing.  He did it with every season of Leverage.

Which isn't a bad thing. Each season has its own ark and it gets wrapped up and they move to the next arc the next season.

[ganesh]

I'd rather it be like that. We can imagine the Librarians are off having adventures even though we aren't there to see them. With a cliffhanger, characters are sort of stuck in time. 

[MissLucas]

Fun episode to finish the season. I think that was their best season so far. What I liked the most is what they did with Cassandra: brain grape gone, squeaky voice gone, wardrobe from fashion hell gone. I hope they get a 4th season as there are barely any fantasy shows with a sense of humor left (I'm pretty sure DOSA's library was a blatant shout-out to Warehouse 13).

[Chaos Theory]

Eve and Flynn plotting was a little obvious.    

Locking Jenkins up in the "smart box"  was actually my favorite part of an otherwise ehhhh episode honestly.    I did really enjoy all of Jenkins scenes especially the confrontation scene with Baird and when he strangled her.    That was actually a nice touch.

I did like the how the main three figured out how to defeat Apep.  Of course Flynn would go for the obvious choice of sacrificing himself but the others would be "smart" and find another way because there is always another way.  

I did like DOSA lady turning out to be half way decent and returning the artifacts when she realized how dangerous they really were.  That really was a nice touch.  

[ganesh]

What made it work was that the General was "After all I did, you're still helping me?" Yes, lady, there's actually some selfless and noble people in this world. 

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I did like DOSA lady turning out to be half way decent and returning the artifacts when she realized how dangerous they really were.  That really was a nice touch.  

DoSA were never bad people.  They wanted basically the same thing as the Librarians - to keep magic from harming other people.  They just thought that the best people to guard the artifacts would be professionals and not amateurs.  They were right about that.  They were simply wrong about who the amateurs were in this case.

[ganesh]

I don't necessarily think DOSA was strictly hands off when it came to magic artifacts though. 

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

I don't necessarily think DOSA was strictly hands off when it came to magic artifacts though. 

I don't recall them ever using any whenever they showed up (aside from Eve using the head against Jenkins, but Eve was still allied with the Library).  Their policy seemed to be "grab it, ship it to Warehouse 13.5 and secure it."  Of the two groups, the one more likely to use artifacts is the librarians.

The big vow made at the end swearing off magic and special abilities clearly had "unless the plot needs us to" left off of the end.

Edited January 24, 2017 by johntfs

[lh25]

5 hours ago, johntfs said:

The big vow made at the end swearing off magic and special abilities clearly had "unless the plot needs us to" left off of the end.

Yep, I agree,  Didn't they even say something like that?  That they would use magic if called for.

I don't get the not using their abilities though.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, lh25 said:

Yep, I agree,  Didn't they even say something like that?  That they would use magic if called for.

I don't get the not using their abilities though.

Cassandra said she wouldn't use the upgraded part of her abilities, like reading thought, sending thoughts or potentially mind-controlling people.  Presumably she'll still use the supermath stuff she was already able to do.

Jake's situation seems a bit more complex.  I'm taking it that he won't use whatever magic stuff the Monkey King taught him.  The idea that he wouldn't use the martial arts when people are trying to kill him and his fellow librarians seems kind of absurd, especially since I get the feeling the whole point of the Monkey King stuff was to justify Jake being a badass fighter.

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Cassandra said she wouldn't use the upgraded part of her abilities, like reading thought, sending thoughts or potentially mind-controlling people.  Presumably she'll still use the supermath stuff she was already able to do.

Jake's situation seems a bit more complex.  I'm taking it that he won't use whatever magic stuff the Monkey King taught him.  The idea that he wouldn't use the martial arts when people are trying to kill him and his fellow librarians seems kind of absurd, especially since I get the feeling the whole point of the Monkey King stuff was to justify Jake being a badass fighter.

Or he could give vampires souls which would be another his incarnations we don't want to get into.  

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, johntfs said:

I don't recall them ever using any whenever they showed up (aside from Eve using the head against Jenkins, but Eve was still allied with the Library).

She opened the casket and let Apep out. This tells me they'd be experimenting with the artifacts to see how they could use them.

 

2 hours ago, lh25 said:

Yep, I agree,  Didn't they even say something like that?  That they would use magic if called for.

I don't really have a problem with that though. They have Jenkins and Eve to keep them in check.

[ChelseaNH]

Eve was so obviously plotting, I started to figure when she could have been possessed by Apep.

The ending does leave DOSA out there in the world, so we could see Vanessa Williams again.

[LoneHaranguer]

18 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I did like DOSA lady turning out to be half way decent and returning the artifacts when she realized how dangerous they really were.  That really was a nice touch.

But very unrealistic. No government agency is going to admit that it can't do the job as well as a private organization. Doh-sa lady would want the gang to come work for her. I presume that most of the artifacts never left the Library. Flynn was closing off sections, and there's no way that everything could have been carted off that quickly, especially the "large collections" section; you can't just toss Noah's Ark into a box and carry it out the door.

[sjohnson]

The last word I think is, if the show comes back, I'll be watching. 

[CoderLady]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

She opened the casket and let Apep out. This tells me they'd be experimenting with the artifacts to see how they could use them.

Agreed. This always happens when a government agency gets involved and it never, ever goes well.

[ganesh]

And she kept calling them WMDs. Considering no other country has any similar repository, if they weren't actually going to be used, they would be publicly tested just like the a-bomb tests. At the least, anything would be used for espionage.

 

How about an xmas special crossover with Warehouse 13?!

[BooksRule]

Quote

I presume that most of the artifacts never left the Library. Flynn was closing off sections, and there's no way that everything could have been carted off that quickly, especially the "large collections" section; you can't just toss Noah's Ark into a box and carry it out the door.

...or the Loch Ness monster or the sun that's kept in the Sun Room.

I thought that maybe there was something that had been done to the artifacts that had been stored at the Library (the ones that they retrieved after being stolen and new ones added) that would make them disappear from DOSA storage and reappear at the Library (a kind of homing spell).   But that would mean using magic and they were going to avoid that when possible.  

[johntfs]

10 hours ago, LoneHaranguer said:

But very unrealistic. No government agency is going to admit that it can't do the job as well as a private organization. Doh-sa lady would want the gang to come work for her. I presume that most of the artifacts never left the Library. Flynn was closing off sections, and there's no way that everything could have been carted off that quickly, especially the "large collections" section; you can't just toss Noah's Ark into a box and carry it out the door.

Magic.  Vampires.  Evil god.  But I'm sorry, you were saying something about a lack of realism?

Fine, she won't admit it publicly, but privately is another thing, especially once she recognized who the real professionals were.  Figure she'll help the Library cover their butts with the bureaucracy in exchange for help with some of DoSAs tougher cases.

[ganesh]

I can buy that the General had a big wake up call when she saw how fast everything went south. Not to mention the legit capability of the Librarians. The locks to keep Jenkins confined were clever, but they still figured it out. Government v the good guys is kind of tropey, so I'd rather that plot go away after this. There's already a personal relationship with Eve and the General, so I'd be fine if she was recurring, or even if she somehow finagled that the Librarians could be DOSA agents, so if they run into one another in the field, the Librarians have jurisdiction or authority to avoid conflicts. 

[Chaos Theory]

Bringing the Govt in is a double edged sword.  It all depends on how far you want to take it and how aware Youvwantvto actually make DOSA.  They could kinda sorta know what they are doing with magic artifacts without realizing the true danger these items actually have.  ""Wait?Santa is real?  Let's arrest him!!!! ". I think they wanted Baird essentially because she knew stuff they didn't.  She knew how to use the artifacts instead of just putting them behind a box.  She also knew how dangerous they were which DOSA didn't.  I thought it was kinda funny how they were handling some of them.

[ganesh]

Well, they exist in the show universe now. I was just speculating on what one would do with them show wise. I'm talking like once or twice recurring. Not any long drawn out plot. 

[thuganomics85]

I figured they would find some way to avoid killing Flynn, but I enjoyed how they pulled it off.  Like with the past seasons, I like how a bunch of stuff from the "episodes of the week" actually factor into the endgame in surprising ways, like Jake's Monkey King tattoo, Cassandra's new powers, and even one of the love potions that Ezekiel had.  It really makes any potential rewatch fun, knowing what minor thing ends up having a significance going forward.

Solid finale.  I wish they spent more time on building up DOSA and Baird's relationship with Vanessa Williams' character, but I enjoyed Flynn playing hide and seek, and swiping back artifacts from them, and Jake/Cassandra/Ezekiel springing Jenkins after they figured out that they had to actually answer the questions incorrectly, because DOSA assumed they would outthink themselves instead.

Glad to see Charlene again in the mirror.  And Judson!

I'm so use to kind of cuddly Jenkins, that angry, grab Baird by the throat Jenkins was scary as hell.  John Larroquette can be surprisingly menacing.

Glad it's been picked up again.  It's not the best show ever, but I find it charming and fun to watch, and there is room for that in TV Land.

[snuffles]

Jammed packed episode. A little too much previously recap at the beginning and way too many commercials in between. Overall though, pretty solid episode.

Jones got the short end of the stick. Love potion, heh. I hope the magical tattoo is a one time only deal. Cute how their gifts/powers turned Apep into a human being so he could be the sacrifice for the eye of Ra. Of course, Flynn would never think there was another way. Self centered to the end, even when he is trying to sacrifice himself.

Questions:

1. Why wouldn't "The Library" tell Flynn there was another way? Charlene is part of the The Library's soul, she could have told him.

2. Why did Flynn have to rescue the artifacts? The whole plan with DOSA was so they could house the artifacts to prevent it from being destroyed by Apep.  It was funny to watch Flynn get creative in ways to take back the artifacts.

[andromeda331]

I also liked Flynn sneaking around grabbing artifacts. But why didn't he know there was another way. He found another way to save Baird when she got stabbed in season one, and to get back to the present in season two, it really doesn't make sense that he wouldn't find another way or that Charlene wouldn't have told him. She's the direct one. Flynn knew Charlene was the original guardian and defeated Apep before then why wouldn't he already know? I'm a little disappointed in DOSA how do you grab the artifacts and not get excited? No, I just saw Nessie! This is the Ark! This is the DeLorean, let's hop in and take a ride. Is that a Tardis?

[mahree]

I really liked it.  Did anyone catch the musical shoutout to North by Northwest when Jake, Cassandra, and Ezekiel arrived at Mount Rushmore?  

[ChelseaNH]

Did Flynn have all the information he needed to deduce that the LITs could make Apep a real boy?  I don't recall Ezekiel telling everyone he picked up the love potion.  Charlene wasn't around as much as Flynn, so if he didn't know, I wouldn't expect her to know, either.

[Maelstrom]

I'm with everyone who thought that this episode seemed a little too rushed, and a little too full. It felt like a two-parter crammed into one ep. It could've benefitted from more development on the Eve/DOSA front, and the ending down in Cerebro the catacombs felt far too "pat" for me. Not that I expect (or want) a dark heavy ending on a show like this (everything has tipped so dark and gritty these days I'm happy to have a light, fun show), but… I dunno. It all came together too easily, I guess. And I felt that the throwbacks to Stone and Ezekiel's arcs when finally defeating the Goa'uld Apep were more like throwing crumbs to the audience rather than actually incorporating story elements. YMMV

I did really enjoy Jenkins' scenes, of course, and LOVED the scene when Cass, Stone and Ezekiel had to rescue him from Warehouse 13 DOSA. Fun, clever scenes like that are what I want from this show! I appreciated that Flynn didn't totally eat the episode, though I feel the season overall was very hit or miss on that front. Again, YMMV.

Overall for the season, there were some highlight episodes (clowns, prophecy, cult and vampires) and a clunker or two (werewolves and Bermuda Triangle) but it was fun and I'm crossing my fingers for a season 4. (Anyone heard anything on that front yet?)

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, ChelseaNH said:

Did Flynn have all the information he needed to deduce that the LITs could make Apep a real boy?  I don't recall Ezekiel telling everyone he picked up the love potion.  Charlene wasn't around as much as Flynn, so if he didn't know, I wouldn't expect her to know, either.

Flynn has know Charlene for ten years plus however long time has passed in the series. He knew she was the original guardian and she defeated Apep the first time.

[ganesh]

I think it was astutely pointed out that Flynn being on his own for so long made him kind of constrained into thinking that his sacrifice was the only way. I think it was Stone who said, "there's always another way." I don't mean to read too much into it, but having the three always working together brings out a sum is more greater than the parts mentality where more creative solutions are available due to their wider skill sets. 

[Maelstrom]

7 minutes ago, ganesh said:

having the three always working together brings out a sum is more greater than the parts mentality where more creative solutions are available due to their wider skill sets. 

And this is my favorite aspect of The Librarians (and its older sibling Leverage). It's the team/ensemble show at its best.

[Loandbehold]

Quote

I'm crossing my fingers for a season 4. (Anyone heard anything on that front yet?)

It's been renewed. Check out the media thread for links.

I agree with those who have said that season arc wasn't all that strong - Apep wasn't great, that DOSA wasn't built up well enough, and more time should have been given to the relationship between Eve and the General. I always felt that the weakest point of Leverage, especially in the last three seasons, was the long arc. We'd get too much of research being done off screen or we'd see the crew coming back from the really dangerous trip where they were lucky to escape from the Big Bad, but we wouldn't actually see much. Then, the last two or three episodes would be this rush to complete the story. I felt the same here, except that because the show has only 10 episodes, it was even more rushed and everything was pushed into one episode.

I like the lightness of the show and the teamwork shown by the no-longer LITs, Baird, and Jenkins. Flynn can be a bit much, but I don't hate him. I really don't see the need for a season-long villain. And, if they're going to have one, then they need to spend more time fleshing the villain out as well as the other stories necessary to complete the season instead of waiting for episode 10.

[Maelstrom]

^^ Very cool news about season four! Thank you! :)

[LoneHaranguer]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think it was astutely pointed out that Flynn being on his own for so long made him kind of constrained into thinking that his sacrifice was the only way.

He really couldn't think of where he could find somebody in the world who would be willing to sacrifice themselves to save the world? Holy man? Somebody at death's door? I didn't hear anyone say the person had to belong to the Library. 

[andromeda331]

Team work is my favorite too. That and when ever its referenced what's in the Library or its artifacts like when they were debating last season how to stop Hurricane Ariel suggesting Thor's Hammer and Zeus's Lightening Bolt. Or Jenkins casually mentioning they have goats. Seeing the Delorean and Tardis in the Time Machine room.

[ChelseaNH]

16 hours ago, LoneHaranguer said:

He really couldn't think of where he could find somebody in the world who would be willing to sacrifice themselves to save the world?

How do you ask somebody to do that?  "I need someone to die to save the world.  I don't want to do it myself but I was hoping you would.  How about it?"