S02.E09: Uncharted Territory

[WendyCR72]

Quote

Goodwin tasks Dr. Charles with evaluating a patient as a possible heart recipient, while Jeff makes a confession to Dr. Manning. Dr. Choi deals with two MMA fighters who are brought into Chicago Med in bad shape. Elsewhere, Dr. Stohl returns to the hospital from his sabbatical leave and immediately offers up different medical opinion regarding the treatment of a patient under the care of Dr. Halstead. April discovers her TB medication may lead to further complications.

[izabella]

Had we seen  Stohl before?  I don't remember him.

I've also never seen any MMA fighting.  Do people usually end up bloody and battered like that?

[statsgirl]

MMA fighting really is dangerous. It's been banned in some areas.

I don't remember seeing Stohl before. And now that I've seen him, I don't need to again.

It's ironic that they keep playing it like Halstead is the dangerous doctor when it's really Manning who ends up hurting her patients the most because she always leads with her heart and not the part of her that got the medical training -- her head.  The tweets at #ChicagoMed are all "Don't be sad Natalie, it's not your fault."  Yes it is, youtwit, you decided on radiation without consulting an oncologist, the person who's supposed to know this stuff, because you wanted to wish everything right.  Please, show, keep Halstead away from her so I have a chance at liking him.

I thought the MMA story was the best one of the episode.   I liked Choi knowing the Quran verse, but when the father invited the other fighter to pray with them, it blew me away.  Great moment, especially in these times.

Reese is annoying, spouting Intro Psych research (did she never take a psychology course as an undergrad?) and then diagnosing Dr. Charles (something psychologists get in trouble for) but Charles is the one whose character they really seem to be ruining this season.  Countertransference (what the doctor projects on to the patient) is a big no-no and he needs to see his shrink fast.

I also like April and her boyfriend's dilemma, to abort or not to abort. It's something that many people experience in the real world when there is the real possibility of a birth defect, and I like how they're addressing it here.

Edited January 6, 2017 by statsgirl

[twoods]

Why is an ED doctor ordering radiation for a cancer patient? Isn't that what an oncologist is for? Another ER show that ignores how specialists usually do "specialist" things instead of having an ER doc do it. At least they made up for it with the MMA storyline- the fighter praying with the other guy's family was pretty amazing.

[Lady Calypso]

I guess Stohl's gonna be popping in from time to time to harass Will. Oh, great. 

Manning's gotten just as bad as Dr. McDouche for me. I like Will this season, but now Manning needs her own nickname. Dr. McJudgey? I was with Connor on his look when Dr. McJudgey ordered the radiation without consulting anyone. Isn't she mainly a pediatric doctor? Or am I misremembering? Anyway, since Will is a lot better than the first season (good job on redeeming him, show. Please don't regress him), I'm going to need him to stay away from Dr. McJudgey. Speaking of, I definitely missed the whole reason why she was mad at Dr. Fire. I know that he apparently blurted out that he wanted to be her wife when he was still besties with her now dead husband, but how did it come up?

I agree that the MMA case was powerful. Wow, I didn't expect that from this show. It's a good show that hit its marks, but when they had the Muslim father welcome in that MMA fighter to pray with them, even though he knew that the guy was responsible for his son being in a vegetative state, I was blown away. Now that is what I call a twist, and an excellent one at that. 

I don't really know what's going on with Dr. Charles but now I want less of him. Look; Connor had a total of four minutes of screen time, if that. Maggie had two scenes, and we didn't really get all that much on April. Well, besides that her fiance is concerned about the baby's quality of life and April's life and April doesn't want to terminate the pregnancy because she's Catholic, so now they're fighting. So, I guess I'm expecting an episode where April's life is in danger, the fiance (possible husband at that point) decides to save April instead of the baby, and maybe she gets pissed at him? I guess this show hasn't gone for ALL the cliches, so it's possible that something else happens. Please let anything else happen. I like the fiance a lot. But the story could be quite powerful to explore, if they do it right. 

Edited January 6, 2017 by Lady Calypso
Apparently I forgot what day it is

[Court]

Ugh, I need Manning off my screen. She's so annoying. I need more Dr. Choi and Maggie.

Whatever they did to Dr. Charles needs to be reversed asap. He used to be my favorite part of the show. 

[Chas411]

Natalie really is the worst character in this show. Moving Will away from her was the best thing they could have done for him as a character. I just dread the eventual reunion for his sake.

[J0nas3]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Speaking of, I definitely missed the whole reason why she was mad at Dr. Fire. I know that he apparently blurted out that he wanted to be her wife when he was still besties with her now dead husband, but how did it come up?

When they first met in the food line, she asked him why she had been out of touch with him for so long.

[statsgirl]

And she got mad at him because he answered her honestly?  Ugh, Manning really is the worst.

[izabella]

I think she got mad at him because he didn't tell her sooner, but even so, Manning is still the worst.  It's not like he killed her husband so he could be with her, so what difference does it make that he had the hots for her while she was still married?

[Calamity Jane]

15 hours ago, twoods said:

Why is an ED doctor ordering radiation for a cancer patient? Isn't that what an oncologist is for? Another ER show that ignores how specialists usually do "specialist" things instead of having an ER doc do it. At least they made up for it with the MMA storyline- the fighter praying with the other guy's family was pretty amazing.

I was yelling at the TV about this.  Never, never, never let anybody but an oncologist treat cancer!  Not a surgeon, not an emergency doctor, and not a family doctor.  And I don't believe for a moment that a big hospital like that would allow an ED doc to call the shots in this situation.  The kid would have been transferred to an oncology ward and people who actually know something about his condition would treat it.  At least, I fervently hope so!  

[DearEvette]

7 hours ago, izabella said:

I think she got mad at him because he didn't tell her sooner, but even so, Manning is still the worst.  It's not like he killed her husband so he could be with her, so what difference does it make that he had the hots for her while she was still married?

Her reaction was so over the top.  God, I wonder why they insist on making her so insufferable all the time?  They've managed to redeem Will, maybe they can do the same for her.  I would hate for her to be my doctor, she is always in her feels.

I loved the Choi/MMM fighter storyline.  Went somewhere I didn't expect. Nicely acted.

Also liking the April storyline.  It is probably going to lead to a tragic ending both for the baby and the relationship, but it is a good dilemma for them to delve into.

And I agree,  good lord, what are they doing to Charles?  And his continuing animosity toward Rhodes can't just be because of his relationship with the Robyn right?  Tell me there is some backstory we haven't gotten yet?  Cuz otherwise they seem to just be willfully assassinating his character.

[Netfoot]

Wasn't this Episode S02.E09 ?

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

Wasn't this Episode S02.E09 ?

I need to go to kindergarten and learn to count. This is indeed episode 9 and the title is fixed! Gracias for the heads up.

[starri]

On 1/6/2017 at 1:29 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Well, besides that her fiance is concerned about the baby's quality of life and April's life and April doesn't want to terminate the pregnancy because she's Catholic, so now they're fighting. So, I guess I'm expecting an episode where April's life is in danger, the fiance (possible husband at that point) decides to save April instead of the baby, and maybe she gets pissed at him? I guess this show hasn't gone for ALL the cliches, so it's possible that something else happens. Please let anything else happen. I like the fiance a lot. But the story could be quite powerful to explore, if they do it right. 

The thing is, the OB was talking about being concerned about anencephaly (trust me, DO NOT GOOGLE IT).  There are no "quality of life" issues and no real dilemma over live of mother versus life of baby because it's a condition that's incompatible with life.  An anencephalic baby can't live outside of the womb for more than a few hours at most.

I'm not Catholic, but I know a few non-Catholic OB/Gyns who practice at Catholic hospitals and have heard frustrations that the current church teachings are that there's no termination if there's a heartbeat, even in cases where the baby has a condition like this.  I respect April's right to choose, and I understand her feeling if it's only a maybe at this point.  Still, I don't know if shows are allowed to tell nuanced stories about abortion any more.

Really liked the story with the MMA fighter.  And I'm very much in favor of them continuing to develop Choi and Sarah's Big Bro/Little Sis relationship.  It's like with Maggie and Will, I like that two adults of the opposite sex can be friends without a sexual component.

I have never really liked Dr. Fire even though he's basically a much better-looking version of me, but even I was thinking he's too good for Natalie.  God, she's terrible.

[LittleIggy]

April is Catholic. Guess that explains how a nurse got pregnant. <sarcasm> So she would want to bring a brainless baby to term? To suffer then die. Yeah, really Christian (and, yes, I am).

Manning is insufferable. The scene of the father picking up his son's belongings was so heartbreaking. It seemed as if they had only each other.

[Court]

Many parents make the choice to carry the baby to term even when they know the baby will only live a few hours or a few days. I have two close friends who chose this. They didn't take it lightly.  Others choose to terminate. Neither choice is wrong, it's a deeply personal choice.

[leslieo54]

On 1/5/2017 at 8:29 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Isn't she mainly a pediatric doctor? Or am I misremembering?

Hahaha - as soon as that scene ended, I turned to my mom and said 'Isn't she a pediatrician...?' Glad to see I'm not the only one who is confused ?

[twoods]

She's a pediatric ED doctor, yet she's doing non-peds things every week! The stupidity, it burns. What's the point of having medical consultants on writing teams if they can't get their shit right? At least people aren't sleeping around with everyone like in Grey's Anatomy...yet. I got sick of people asking me if that's how residency really is. 

[Sarnia]

10 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

April is Catholic. Guess that explains how a nurse got pregnant. <sarcasm> So she would want to bring a brainless baby to term? To suffer then die. Yeah, really Christian (and, yes, I am).

 

At this point it's my understanding there is nothing actually wrong with the baby, just concerns. I can understand a Christian not wanting an abortion of a baby would could end up being healthy (and I'm not Christian). The fiancee (I forgot his name) said at some point that it was easier to terminate the pregnancy now than it would be later on if the baby did turn out non viable. So I'm not sure she is considering bringing the baby to term if there is something wrong, just that she doesn't feel terminating the pregancy now as there is no definitive diagnostic.

Poor Dr Charles, what a character assassination.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Sarnia said:

At this point it's my understanding there is nothing actually wrong with the baby, just concerns. I can understand a Christian not wanting an abortion of a baby would could end up being healthy (and I'm not Christian). The fiancee (I forgot his name) said at some point that it was easier to terminate the pregnancy now than it would be later on if the baby did turn out non viable. So I'm not sure she is considering bringing the baby to term if there is something wrong, just that she doesn't feel terminating the pregancy now as there is no definitive diagnostic.

Poor Dr Charles, what a character assassination.

Ok, so I'm rewatching those April scenes (one of the rare times I'm actually rewatching any part of this show) and I do think you're right. The OBGYN says that it's a concern, and it's a possibility. So now that it makes more sense, I get why April wants to take the risk until it's confirmed. Although the bigger question is if she is told that her baby will be unable to live for long outside of the womb, would she allow herself to consider terminating the pregnancy? 

Also, I rewatched the Dr McJudgey/Dr Fire scene where he tells her the truth, and her spouting the part about letting him into her life? All because he didn't tell her about why him and Jeff stopped being friends? Wow, that's certainly overdramatic. I get being upset by not being told the truth about why Dr Fire drifted from them, but going immediately to distrust? Is Dr. McJudgey trying to push Dr. Fire away subconsciously as a reason for her wanting to be with Will? 

[Fireball]

Manning needs to go away! The character was hit or miss for me last season, but this season she's a complete miss. I really cannot stand her! She's a horrible Dr. that gets way to emotionally attached to her patients. I feel like she treats patient with her head in the sand and just expects everything to work out.

Also I don't see why Jeff should have told her up front that he always liked her even when she was married. When Natalie asked him why he stopped being friends with her husband, Jeff was completely honest! Natalie's over the top reaction makes me believe she's really not over her husband. Jeff really deserves better. However, saying that I hope this is the drama in their relationship and that the writers can reframe from going the triangle route.

Please writers reframe from the whole Jeff, Natalie, Will love triangle. I'm just starting to like Will! Something I never thought would happen. Well if I think about the DNR I go back to disliking him, but the show has done a good job of redeeming him. Also I like Will and Nina together.

What is up with Dr. Charles this season? I use to like him (granted I thought he probably had bad BO), but this season I just don't like him. Also the writers really should have introduced the whole animosity toward Rhodes way earlier in the season. Instead it just makes Charles look like an ass who doesn't like his daughters boyfriend.

Speaking of the daughter I still do not like her! All I get from her is bland/boring with daddy issues. I know she had a scene last episode where she told her dad that she has no animosity towards him, but I did buy it. I also have such a had time seeing her as related to Dr. Charles; I have friends who says that she has the same bone structure but I just do not see it and it takes me out of the scene. I'm always thinking why is this Dr. so pissed at Dr. Charles.

Dr. Rhode's what happened to him? It feels like Will and Conner have switched places. In season one: Rhodes had a lot of screen time and he was very confident. Will in season one didn't get as much screen time and seemed timid. It feels like the writers have kind of switched their roles. Will is getting a ton of screen time in season two and has a lot of confidence. Conner in season two gets what 4mins of screen time and worries about asking Robyn out.  I have a hard time seeing season one Rhodes as dating Robyn.

Reese. I do like her, but seriously having her run around spouting Intro Psych research is ridicules! Also they really need to pair her up with someone besides Dr. Charles. I always liked her scenes with Choi.

April, while I thought the whole accidental pregnancy was eye roll worthy, the dilemma of to abort or not to abort doesn't feel so shoehorned in to create drama unlike on Grey's Anatomy.

Choi and the MMA story was the best one of the episode! The show needs more Choi and less Manning. Actually the shows just needs less Manning and more of everyone else.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Fireball

[Lady Calypso]

30 minutes ago, Fireball said:

Dr. Rhode's what happened to him? It feels like Will and Conner have switched places. In season one: Rhodes had a lot of screen time and he was very confident. Will in season one didn't get as much screen time and seemed timid. It feels like the writers have kind of switched their roles. Will is getting a ton of screen time in season two and has a lot of confidence. Conner in season two gets what 4mins of screen time and worries about asking Robyn out.  I have a hard time seeing season one Rhodes as dating Robyn.

I do agree. I think he is suffering because Connor essentially has no plot this season. Last season, he had his family thing and he had his mentorship with Dr. Downey, so he was given more to do. This season, his girlfriend stuff is essentially him in the secondary role with Robyn in the primary role, and he doesn't get much to do with Latham. It's why I want his dick father and his sister to return. I want to know if his dick father ended up killing Connor's mother! 

32 minutes ago, Fireball said:

Please writers reframe from the whole Jeff, Natalie, Will love triangle. I'm just starting to like Will! Something I never thought would happen. Well if I think about the DNR I go back to disliking him, but the show has done a good job of redeeming him. Also I like Will and Nina together.

I feel the same way. Not many show do the redemption arc justice, but Will has done stupid shit. Not only has received consequences for his actions that nearly lost him his job, he has made up for those stupid actions AND he has clearly learned his lesson as he won't do anything illegal while trying to tell people not to do the same things he did in season 1. And he's in a relationship with a woman who is very likable, so it really does help. 

 

34 minutes ago, Fireball said:

Reese. I do like her, but seriously having her run around spouting Intro Psych research is ridicules! Also they really need to pair her up with someone besides Dr. Charles. I always liked her scenes with Choi.

 

I loved Reese/Dr. Charles scenes in season 1. But with Reese going into Psych and having Dr. Charles pretty unlikable, I need her to interact with other people. She's always had good scenes with Choi and Connor. 

[Fireball]

21 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's why I want his dick father and his sister to return. I want to know if his dick father ended up killing Connor's mother! 

I agree! I want to know what happened with Connor's mother! Did the father kill her or what?  I would be perfectly happy if Connor's story/plot was 1) continuing to become an amazing Dr. 2) learning how to interact with Latham and 3) continuing to learn about his relationship with his family. Instead his story this season is...... Robyn?

[Tiger]

Aside from April & Tate's baby dilemma, this was extremely boring.  And it shouldnt have been.  Dr. Charles deciding whether or to recommend that woman to the transplant board should have been compelling.  Manning's patient should have compelling.  The MMA story should have been compelling. But they all fell flat.

Are Maggie an/or Connor ever going to get a story?  Aside from that one ep with the coma woman, Maggie has jack shit to do this season.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Tiger

[MakeMeLaugh]

I think all the good writers are working on Justice--Fire suffered when PD got focused on, and PD really went flat when Med got going. But imo Fire is back on its feet and PD too so hold on, Med will get better. 

[statsgirl]

I hadn't thought of that but maybe that's the explanation, that the good writers are working on Justice.  The Choi/MMA plot was excellent and April's baby's has potential but the rest of the show was boring or WTH?

And yes what have they done to Connor this  year?  And don't ignore Maggie just because she's over 30 and not a stick figure.

On 2017-01-08 at 0:12 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Ok, so I'm rewatching those April scenes (one of the rare times I'm actually rewatching any part of this show) and I do think you're right. The OBGYN says that it's a concern, and it's a possibility. So now that it makes more sense, I get why April wants to take the risk until it's confirmed. Although the bigger question is if she is told that her baby will be unable to live for long outside of the womb, would she allow herself to consider terminating the pregnancy?

Private Practice did the storyline with Amelia carrying her baby to term so that she could donate his organs when he died.  But that's Shonda.

I like it because unlike Manning's cancer patients  or Charles being pissy because he daughter won't behave the way he wants her to or blocking the transplant because he's projecting his issues all over the place, the possibility of having a baby who is not born healthy and how to handle that situation is something many people face.  Like the MMA storyline, if well done, this could be significant.

[Sandman]

On 2017-01-05 at 11:13 PM, statsgirl said:

I don't remember seeing Stohl before. And now that I've seen him, I don't need to again.

Heh. Nicely put.

On 2017-01-08 at 5:25 PM, Fireball said:

I agree! I want to know what happened with Connor's mother! Did the father kill her or what?

It was mentioned in the first season that Connor's mother killed herself. I don't think this was meant to be a mystery or even a continuing plot thread: It was made fairly explicit that to Connor at least, his father's callousness meant she didn't get the care that might have prevented her suicide; I don't think Connor ever accused his father in so many words of "driving her to suicide," but the implication was certainly there, and it was clear that Connor found a cruel irony in his father's establishing the new Psych wing in her name. 

[Fireball]

20 hours ago, Sandman said:

Heh. Nicely put.

It was mentioned in the first season that Connor's mother killed herself. I don't think this was meant to be a mystery or even a continuing plot thread: It was made fairly explicit that to Connor at least, his father's callousness meant she didn't get the care that might have prevented her suicide; I don't think Connor ever accused his father in so many words of "driving her to suicide," but the implication was certainly there, and it was clear that Connor found a cruel irony in his father's establishing the new Psych wing in her name. 

Yes it's mentioned that Connor's mother killed herself, but there was a scene where Connor confronts his father and threatens to reveal the truth about his mother’s suicide to his sister Claire.  Now maybe it's as simple as you say that Connor thinks his father drove his mother to commit suicide, but I got the impression there was more to it.

[Sandman]

I didn't remember that scene clearly, so my reasoning about the storyline may be flawed; but I do remember thinking that Connor's felt a little hollow. That's the impression I'm left with, for whatever it's worth.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Sandman

[Chas411]

I can't warm to Charles daughter - I fully blame it on Secret and Lies. 

[SnarkySheep]

IMO the writers wanted a reason to have Jeff and Natalie break up. That's the sole reason for her ridiculous over-the-top reaction. But hey, if you're going to go down that road, at least have fun with it - let him confess he's got his ex-wife's body in his basement, not something so inconsequential and downright boring as simply having liked her.

On a side note, anyone else reminded of Taub from House whenever they see Dr Stohl??