S03.E11: Wreck the Halls

[thewhiteowl]

Quote

It's Christmas Eve and Team Scorpion's electronics-free mountain getaway turns deadly when they come across gun-runners, and Ralph is kidnapped when they try to escape. Also, Tim makes an important decision about his position with Team Scorpion.

[shapeshifter]

So the writers must really hate the real life Walter.

[Kilcanon]

I'm trying so hard with Walter but I just can't. His childishness and petulance is so off-putting and disgusting I'm not sure if I want him to be alone forever or with the bland Paige. Everyone else has grown so much (even Ralph has had some interesting C plots) that Walter's almost reversal of maturity is jarring. I found it strange that the writers had Tim be pretty blasé and forgiving after Walter gave a horribly weak apology. Just need someone to punch him in his butt-chinned face...

As a side note, I loved Toby's and Happy's gift exchange. Her relationship moment with Sly to "be himself" was also d'awwww... worthy. I think the show as a whole is fun but weighed down by a childish lead

[madfortv]

I've just gotten used to Tim being part of the team, and hope he stays. I'm tired of Walter.  I wondered why Tim's character was added but he fits well now with the team.

[theatremouse]

Did I hear Paige say Ralph was 12? What the fuck? I thought he was 10, tops and I think the actor is 9.

[Zahdii]

I usually watch TV while doing other things, and last night was no exception.  I cringed, though, when that beautiful cabin got shot up.  Scorpion is the CDB (Walking Dead reference) of national security:  when they show up, things are about to get worse before they get better and even innocent cabins in the mountains are getting trashed in the process.

The worst part of the show, as usual, is Walter.  His arrogance, childishness, selfishness, and petulance is always getting in the way.  The others may grow and evolve, but Walter takes a baby step forward at most, then takes three steps back every time.  Even when something big or traumatic happens, whatever change he exibits for the better fades away within a couple of episodes.  He's the Sheldon Cooper of Scorpion.

Anyway, I agree with whoever it was who told Walter in the end that driving Tim away wasn't going to help his campaign to win Paige over.  No matter what happens, she's going to blame Walter for it.  If Tim dies, it's Walters fault.  If Tim returns, he'll have experienced things he wouldn't have if it weren't for Walter driving him away.  He could return with PTSD, or decide not to rejoin Scorpion, or return with a new love interest.  Even if Tim comes back into the fold Paige will still resent the time spent apart.

The best thing that could happen now would be for Walter to get intensive therapy and really learn about himself.  Stare unflinchingly into the mess of his soul and work to better himself.  Then work on his personal relationships with the rest of the team.  Leave Paige alone and show her he's trying to improve himself, rather than make excuses for his behavior or condescendingly tell her he's changed.  Let Paige set strict ground rules for his interactions between he and Paige, and follow them to the letter.  Get over her, and let her do her own thing.  Maybe someday he could find someone else, maybe not, but he needs to leave Paige alone.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Zahdii

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, theatremouse said:

Did I hear Paige say Ralph was 12? What the fuck? I thought he was 10, tops and I think the actor is 9.

That was pretty much my reaction too. According to Google, he was born September 2, 2007, which means he was no more than 9 when the episode was shot. Maybe the writers were told last minute that if he wasn't 12, they'd have to cut the knife scenes? If so, maybe the writers tried to get even with Cabe's line about being a lot younger than Ralph when his grandfather gave him the knife.

[HurricaneVal]

I actually do like Tim.  He's been an interesting character fitting himself into the team quite well.  With the situations they get themselves into, they've been needing some muscle and weapons.  Cabe can't do it all!  Tim's wandering shrapnel which could paralyze him any moment also brings an interesting little fillip to the character as well.  (Full disclosure:  My dad fought in WWII, and he had wandering shrapnel.  Nothing nearly so dramatic as "could have paralyzed him any minute" but enough to freak out the young doctors after his first full body scan.)

 

My favorite part last night was Tim's line where he said something like "I'm a navy SEAL with special ops combat experience, and even I'm scared of her" as he motioned toward Happy.

[Artsda]

I wish we could keep Tim and send Walter away.

His childish games of photoshopping Tim out of the picture and the little desk was pathetic. Wasn't appealing at all.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

4 hours ago, Zahdii said:

The worst part of the show, as usual, is Walter.  His arrogance, childishness, selfishness, and petulance is always getting in the way.  The others may grow and evolve, but Walter takes a baby step forward at most, then takes three steps back every time.  Even when something big or traumatic happens, whatever change he exibits for the better fades away within a couple of episodes. 

At first I was "maybe we are being too hard on him, he doesn't have a lot of experience with emotions", however, by the end of the episode I was all "fuck that guy!"  

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

I wish we could keep Tim and send Walter away.

I wish this too. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Mrs OldManBalls

[theatremouse]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe the writers were told last minute that if he wasn't 12, they'd have to cut the knife scenes? If so, maybe the writers tried to get even with Cabe's line about being a lot younger than Ralph when his grandfather gave him the knife.

I'm pretty sure they said his age outloud in the first season, so it should be verifiable, if for example, the character were intended to be older than the actor (which makes no sense with this kid since he looks very much his own age). I thought he was supposed to be 7 then. Also doesn't make sense to me they'd be forced for him to be a certain age to use a knife since he's supposed to be a scout and they get trained on that much younger than 12, not just Cabe and outdoorsy grandpa. So they're creating their own continuity error. Unless I'm wrong about how old he was supposed to be in the first season. The Scorpion wikia says his birthday is in December 2005, but doesn't cite which episode that's from, but if that's right, in-show he ought to be 11 and they for some reason tacked on a year in this episode. It's bizarre to me. The character is more impressive if he's younger. Aging up is bad portents...unless they then age him down again in 6 months and just aren't keeping track at all.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

I am glad that they showed the rest of Team Scorpion actually showing genuine appreciation for Tim being an instrumental part of the team.  If Walter was actually smart, he would have seen that and not acted like an ass just because of his stupid crush with a girl that he has absolutely no chemistry with, in fact, the very telling part of the argument scene, was the big thing that stuck in Walter's craw was that Tim was the one that was giving Ralph guidance, when it should be HIM.  Again, all about HIM, because ONLY HE can "help" raise a "genius" child.  Give me a freaking break.  In fact, Walter is probably the WORST person to give Ralph guidance, because he is so emotionally stunted and condescending to everyone else, that is NOT the type of behavior you want someone else to emulate.

[theatremouse]

I think the "office" thing would've been much much more interesting if the whole "that's the desk we had" bit were genuine on Walter's part and not some passive aggressive bullshit. For all their "our brains work differently" Walter's "low eq" this year has really just been that he's petty, vindictive and childish. It's much more interesting when he's just oblivious to something because he personally wouldn't care so he doesn't realize most humans would. The way he was acting is the way any random 13 year old might. Hence it's not interesting. Hell they still could've blown up at each other (whether it involved Paige or not) because it could've just been about being territorial about the team and/or their having super different leadership styles, and the issue that Tim did not have a leadership role here but would prefer to be in one. All those things were valid causes for clash and much more interesting than "waah I'm dating the girl you like". Even the photo thing: if he'd just chosen a photo that Tim happened to not be in, and seriously didn't even realize or notice, that would've been better than shoddy photoshop. Again with the lack of stealth.

The Ralph thing...it's not that he isn't an ass about it, because he is, but I think at least his feelings on that subject are grounded in a reasonable internal logic for Walter. He desperately wants to give Ralph what he wanted but didn't have when he was the same age: an adult with comparable brains. So while he's still way overstepping and being absurdly possessive about someone else's kid, that isn't about Paige, or Tim or even really Ralph. It's about Walter's own issues. Absent the rest of his macho bullshit behaviour, it'd just be sort of sad. Although if Toby's supposed to be Mr. Genius Psychiatrist, he's either only selectively good when the case of the week calls for it and otherwise oblivious, or he's a shit friend to not point it out to Walter.

[raven]

10 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

My favorite part last night was Tim's line where he said something like "I'm a navy SEAL with special ops combat experience, and even I'm scared of her" as he motioned toward Happy.

Hee, that and Happy's deadpan "you ruined Christmas" at Cabe's bad bowling joke. 

Liked Happy telling Sly she liked him awww.    I'm not sure what it is, but the Toby/Happy relationship is working for me; the whole elf costume bit was cute. 

This isn't a deep thinking show but they have to be setting up Walter for some kind of fall.  He's never been 100% likable IMO but there were bits of growth and you could see him struggling and trying - now, yeah, he's just immature and petty.   Not just about Paige; if Walter weren't so selfish he would realize that it's good for Ralph to be exposed to different types of good people who care about him; instead it's more territorial BS.

Though he always felt a little "extra", I've always liked Tim, thought I assumed he wouldn't be long for the show.

1 hour ago, theatremouse said:

I think the "office" thing would've been much much more interesting if the whole "that's the desk we had" bit were genuine on Walter's part and not some passive aggressive bullshit.

ITA.  Jealousy and passive-aggressive behavior do not make an entertaining show.  Shut up, Walter.

Even with the Walter/Tim nonsense, it was an enjoyable Christmas episode.  It was believable that Ralph kept his cool enough to escape to the trunk but needed to run to Mom after.   I did wince at the cabin getting shot up :(

[twoods]

I don't understand how the writers are portraying Walter. One episode he's acting like an adult and realizing that Tim is a decent guy and he should let Paige be happy, and then the next he's a spoiled whiny child. Tim has done nothing but be supportive of the team, and even help save Walter's life, and this is the thanks he gets?

I thought this season when Walter decided to walk away from Paige during the season premiere that he would evolve into a decent human being, but he's gotten worse. Despite the ridiculous storylines I do enjoy watching this show because of the great chemistry between the team. Too bad that Walter has to ruin it every single week.

[threebluestars]

I'm weirdly viewing Walter's regression as part of his reaction to Megan's death. Being terrified of losing people and reacting like a total jackass.

I don't like Walter, but I think he's an interesting character in that he's the lead and being written so unlikable. I've known a few people who were highly intelligent, but really, really off putting because of it, so I can completely see how Walter by-passed normal bratty kid stage and is living it as an adult.

[shapeshifter]

17 hours ago, arieswriting said:

I'm weirdly viewing Walter's regression as part of his reaction to Megan's death. Being terrified of losing people and reacting like a total jackass.

I don't like Walter, but I think he's an interesting character in that he's the lead and being written so unlikable. I've known a few people who were highly intelligent, but really, really off putting because of it, so I can completely see how Walter by-passed normal bratty kid stage and is living it as an adult.

You know my sister? Heh. 

But how many viewers want to watch someone like that?

Is it at all possible that the writers thought the viewers would be cheering for the nerd who puts the brawny guy in a little desk???

[theatremouse]

Yeah, I think Walter's behaviour is logical enough; it's an entirely human thing to do. It' just not fun or interesting to watch.

[possibilities]

I did suspect the show wanted us to sympathize with Walter, but it doesn't work for me. I don't even like Tim, but Walter is way worse. And Paige is a cowardly little shit for not shutting it down explicitly. She acts like she enjoys them fighting over her. She's still breathless whenever Walter is around, and I suspect the show does think Paige + Walter is OTP, while Tim is the "logical choice but the heart wants what the heart wants" and everyone acting like tweens is supposed to be cute. Unfortunately, they have made Walter SO obnoxious, that it only makes Paige look juvenile, not like a woman who loves an unusual guy, but like a woman who is willfully oblivious and seems to get off on two guys acting like jerks over her.

The tiny desk in the ridiculous location struck me as blatantly petulant. It's not like it was a slightly inconvenient set up that could maybe have been the best they could do, it was neon signage over blatant absurdity. It could only have worked if it was a prank between true friends, which actually I think might have been a better choice for the show. Let Walter and Tim actually hit it off, and maybe bond over doing stuff with Ralph or seeing each other's value on a mission, and have the drama in the garage be shenanigans between friends, not a property battle between two macho assholes over a damsel who likes being fought over.

Let someone else provide the romantic stuff if they want romance in the show. And if they think they need a seasoning of angst, let it come from something other than a petty triangle.

I enjoyed: Happy and Toby exchanging gifts they both liked, Happy telling Sly she likes him, Ralph crying for mom but also cutting himself free with Cabe's knife, and the complete and total lack of nukes. Also: Tim warning their prisoners that even a pissed off SEAL is afraid of Happy. Even the silly ways they stopped the attackers was OK for me-- it's the campy element we keep saying they should use, instead of resorting to unexplained superpowers.

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, possibilities said:

. . .The tiny desk in the ridiculous location . . . could only have worked if it was a prank between true friends, which actually I think might have been a better choice for the show. Let Walter and Tim actually hit it off, and maybe bond over doing stuff with Ralph or seeing each other's value on a mission, and have the drama in the garage be shenanigans between friends, not a property battle between two macho assholes over a damsel who likes being fought over. . .

A couple of episodes ago this looked like the direction they were going, which made me want to keep watching. But now, if, for example, Tim gets blown up in Jordan, it just makes Walter look even worse, as the guy who drove him away. I mean, Walter could have treated Tim like the team leader of muscle and endurance ops.

[theatremouse]

With the whole "your back" thing last time, I was expecting him to end up paralyzed any minute.

[Driad]

I don't mind the "live action cartoon" aspects of this show, but the badly written soap opera is very annoying.

[HurricaneVal]

13 hours ago, possibilities said:

Unfortunately, they have made Walter SO obnoxious, that it only makes Paige look juvenile, not like a woman who loves an unusual guy, but like a woman who is willfully oblivious and seems to get off on two guys acting like jerks over her.

You put your finger right on what has been bothering me about this whole "love triangle" all along.  The writers did a lot better job earlier on in making Walter this interesting character who is astronomically brilliant but completely tone deaf  socially.   But now he's just obnoxious, and to tell the truth, I was rooting for the bullies or the exploding pond in Ireland to take him out.  Maybe the Real!Walter is interfering with the show a wee bit too much, and the writers actually hate the Real!Walter, so they're writing TV!Walter as unsympathetically as possible?   Some folks here have postulated that TV!Walter is Real!Walter's idealized image of himself, where he re-imagines himself as a genius superman averting disaster with his brain who gets the girls, and Sylvester is much closer to the Real!Walter with his schlubbines, juvenile obsessions, and multiple neuroses.  I'm starting to see that point...

Now--full disclosure--I'm an engineer, and work with engineers who are socially challenged and incapable of taking the temperature of a room or sensing nuance.  I'm talking literal, logical, linear thinkers here.  The tiny desk in the tiny room?  This is something I could see in real life as a real thing, and not necessarily a pissy passive/aggressive thing.  "Hey, Tim is a part of our team now.  He needs a work space...  Hmmm...  We're kind of crowded here.  We don't use this space, the elevator hasn't worked in years...  It has walls!  Nobody else has walls, that means Tim should really like it, it's better than what anybody else has.   Now, about a desk...here's one, it's small but Tim can get another one later.  Workspace?  Check.  Privacy?  Check.  Office furniture?  Check."   Well intentioned, entirely reasoned out, but completely tone deaf as to appearances.

So the desk thing didn't bother me.  That's a typical "Duuuuh, whaaaa?" moment I'm used to.  The team photo bothered me.  That was vindictive on purpose.   That was not an accident, that was not someone meaning to do a good thing that fell flat, that wasn't an unfortunate camera angle, that was a passive-aggressively poorly photo-shopped stack of papers in front of Tim's face.  On purpose.  With malice.

[theatremouse]

That was my point earlier though. I'm so with you on the tiny desk+elevator being a reasonable thing a person like that might do totally obliviously, with precisely the checklist you described. It would've been a better plot point if he were genuinely just tone deaf, but also genuinely thinking he did a nice thing giving Tim an "upgraded" office because he has walls and no one else does and furniture is just furniture. But when Tim and Walter were screaming at each other in the kitchen, Walter admitted he WAS being passive aggressive about it and just trying to use the above logic to excuse away the dig. They ruined it when they had him do that because it wasn't just the photo that was petty. It was all intentional.

Edited December 22, 2016 by theatremouse

[Zahdii]

Walter appears to have more social intelligence than he admits to.  He just likes to pretend otherwise, because he's an ass.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 12/20/2016 at 3:06 PM, theatremouse said:

I think the "office" thing would've been much much more interesting if the whole "that's the desk we had" bit were genuine on Walter's part and not some passive aggressive bullshit. For all their "our brains work differently" Walter's "low eq" this year has really just been that he's petty, vindictive and childish. It's much more interesting when he's just oblivious to something because he personally wouldn't care so he doesn't realize most humans would. The way he was acting is the way any random 13 year old might. Hence it's not interesting. Hell they still could've blown up at each other (whether it involved Paige or not) because it could've just been about being territorial about the team and/or their having super different leadership styles, and the issue that Tim did not have a leadership role here but would prefer to be in one. All those things were valid causes for clash and much more interesting than "waah I'm dating the girl you like". Even the photo thing: if he'd just chosen a photo that Tim happened to not be in, and seriously didn't even realize or notice, that would've been better than shoddy photoshop. Again with the lack of stealth.

The Ralph thing...it's not that he isn't an ass about it, because he is, but I think at least his feelings on that subject are grounded in a reasonable internal logic for Walter. He desperately wants to give Ralph what he wanted but didn't have when he was the same age: an adult with comparable brains. So while he's still way overstepping and being absurdly possessive about someone else's kid, that isn't about Paige, or Tim or even really Ralph. It's about Walter's own issues. Absent the rest of his macho bullshit behaviour, it'd just be sort of sad. Although if Toby's supposed to be Mr. Genius Psychiatrist, he's either only selectively good when the case of the week calls for it and otherwise oblivious, or he's a shit friend to not point it out to Walter.

I agree, initially, I thought the whole desk/office thing was a genuine attempt by Walter at being accommodating, but instead it turned out Walter can be affected by the same emotions as he claims to disdain in "mere" humans.  I was hoping it was a Sheldon Cooper type of scenario where he was just oblivious to how the internal logic in what he was offering was not really corresponding with the non-logic portions of human relationship.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

1 hour ago, Zahdii said:

Walter appears to have more social intelligence than he admits to.  He just likes to pretend otherwise, because he's an ass.

Exactly, he hides behind his "genius" reputation as an excuse at knowingly being an a-hole.  

[HawaiiTVGuy]

3 hours ago, theatremouse said:

That was my point earlier though. I'm so with you on the tiny desk+elevator being a reasonable thing a person like that might do totally obliviously, with precisely the checklist you described. It would've been a better plot point if he were genuinely just tone deaf, but also genuinely thinking he did a nice thing giving Tim an "upgraded" office because he has walls and no one else does and furniture is just furniture. But when Tim and Walter were screaming at each other in the kitchen, Walter admitted he WAS being passive aggressive about it and just trying to use the above logic to excuse away the dig. They ruined it when they had him do that because it wasn't just the photo that was petty. It was all intentional.

I always find it interesting how his friends, especially Toby, has NO PROBLEM with loudly calling him out on that kind of crap IN FRONT OF EVERYONE.  The fact that he is getting open push-back about his pettiness from his friends should be an obvious cue to him that he is clearly in the wrong in those situations.  But of course, this probably is another indicator of how Walter may actually be a borderline sociopath because he doesn't seem to respect the opinions of anyone, even his closest friends.

And someone mentioning about how Paige always comes off as "breathy" around Walter, that is another annoying aspect of the show.  The two of them have no chemistry at all, and yet the writers and/or director keeps on forcing this "chemistry" every time they are in an "alone" situation, where Paige gets all breathy, and Walter tries to start saying something deep and emotional while looking deeply in her eyes.  Ugh.  Seriously showrunners, this show would have been perfectly fine without a forced romantic angle for the leads.  Why does Hollywood seem to insist that this trope is necessary in every single show out there.

[theatremouse]

I want to see the day when RALPH is all "not cool, Walt". He's admitted Ralph is/will be smarter than he is. If his choice to ignore everyone is due to some sort of "their opinion on the subject can't be worthwhile if they're not as smart as I am", Ralphie would sure shut him the fuck up.

[threebluestars]

I totally thought the desk thing was genuine and tone deaf on Walter's part, and I liked that. They even had Walter acknowledge he noticed Tim's displeasure, which was nice progress ... but then the picture thing just made it weird. I wonder if there are two factions in the writers room ... those that want growth from Walter and those that think we'll find the "Walter screws around with Tim" thing funny because we'll root for Walter. 

I mean, I can totally see Walter doing the photo thing for himself to make him feel better, since I can see him acknowledging he has to stop demeaning Tim to everyone, but he does these things for himself as a stress release since he can't eradicate his feelings for Paige. But to put it on Paige's computer seemed really weird - especially leading up to it with the mom giving him advice and him seeming sincere with the desk. And I agree that I LOVE that Toby loudly and frequently comments on it. It's like he figures the only way to retrain Walter is to do it that way lol. I feel like Toby is the audience voice at this point, and the writers think it's Walter that we're identifying with.

I wish the picture thing was something Walter did a long time ago, before he realized Paige would just hate it/him, and he forgot it was on there, and then had to reap the consequences because he truly didn't mean for it to be seen. And there never is any consequences, which bugs me. Paige is a huge wimp about it - I kind of wish they'd have her telling someone she only shuts up about it as much as she does because she likes the Scorpion pay cheque too much to quit lol.

I would actually like Ralph to cut Walter off at the knees over his treatment of Tim. You can see Ralph feels he's learning things from Tim as well as Walter (and things Walter would never be able to teach him) so I'd like Ralph to be the voice of reason, because I think that would actually get through to Walter. (And in typical soapy fashion, they'd have Walter realize it/agree/move on/find a girl, just as Paige breaks it off with Tim and wants to be with Walter, right?? lol)

ETA: theatremouse you hit on it with Ralph just as I was typing lol. YES to everything you said.

Edited December 22, 2016 by arieswriting

[ramble]

If the point of Tim was to make me ship Walter & Paige even more by creating a roadblock it has failed completely. I ended up liking Tim much more with (& than) Paige. I liked the idea of the "normals" (Cabe, Paige & Tim) being a balance to the geniuses. Walter, whether he's using his brilliance or not, is far too smug & often, intentionally or not, condescending, for me to enjoy as a character.   

Surprisingly I'm throughly enjoying Happy & Toby. Somehow they work even though, on paper, I would assume I'd dislike the pairing. I like watching Ralph & Cabe interact also. 

[buckboard]

Mrs. Buckboard pointed out -- as have some others on this forum -- that show runners often have end games and when their show takes a turn, they refuse to adjust their proposed ending.  How I Met Your Mother is an example where they had decided Robin would end up with Ted, so they twisted themselves into pretzels to make that happen and it was really bad.  

They clearly want Walter and Paige to end up together and Tim was meant to be a plot line distraction to show how much Walter cares about her.  Now that they've written the relationship with Tim to be progressing so well, they had to backtrack and get rid of him -- with the really badly written excuse as a plot devise why he was taking the job overseas.

That bad excuse is why Paige didn't talk to Walter about his unacceptable behavior toward her boyfriend -  or why Cabe didn't speak with Walter about how Scorpion works as a team.  That's why they made it seem Tim's position would be subordinate to Walter.  And why Tim didn't tell Paige that while the job offer was good, she was more important to him than being away for eight months.  And it's not as if he couldn't find another good job locally if the Scorpion gig didn't work out.    I'm on Team Tim.

[John Potts]

Though I think the show does romance terribly (and everything wrong with the Walter/Paige/Tim triangle has already been said) but  I found the Happy/Toby romance in this episode rather sweet. I particularly liked the bit when Toby was desperately trying to get everything "perfect" for Happy and his horror at the moment when the bad guys shot up her present... and then Happy's joy at having something to build in order to fix it.

Not sure about the tactical genius of having Tim & Water attack the thugs - wouldn't they be better off getting Cabe as well to make the numbers even? And finally - just how far did Cabe & Ralph go to find a tree? That place was absolutely surrounded by pines, so why did they seemingly go miles to get one? [OK, I should know better than to apply logic to this show!]

[Sarah 103]

On 12/23/2016 at 4:59 PM, ramble said:

I like watching Ralph & Cabe interact also. 

I love watching Ralph and Cabe together and want more scenes of them interacting. I posted this in another thread, but I hope it's okay to post it again here. I would love an episode where Paige is supposed to chaperone a field trip, but on the day of the trip she is horribly sick, so Cabe offers to take her place because it's his day off. Something goes horribly wrong and it's up to Ralph and Cabe to be the ones in the field to save the day while the rest of the team provides support.