S07.E03: Return of the Rotten Apples

[OnceSane]

Quote

Abby and the ALDC bring an edgy group routine to this week's competition in hopes of overtaking Cathy and her Candy Apples for the second week in a row; Kendall dances a solo and is determined to beat Nicaya.

[TomGirl]

Well, Miss Vivi, good for you!

[KaveDweller]

I am pretty sure Vivi hates everything about this show, and hated being on camera. Although, she could also be thinking she's glad she got off the show when she did.

I watched Kendall's dance and all I could think was how much better Maddie would have done it.

[TomGirl]

Nicaya is a beautiful girl and a beautiful dancer.  Too bad she's adopted her mother's charming personality.

[RedFire2000]

On 12/13/2016 at 11:44 PM, KaveDweller said:

I watched Kendall's dance and all I could think was how much better Maddie would have done it.

Kendall is just not a performer. She lacks energy and personality. Her dancing just comes off soulless and restrained. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by MoonWalker

[MaryLennox84]

I don't mean to be crude, but did anyone else notice something weird on Nikaya'a crotch during her solo? If it was what I think it was, Cathy and co should have been better with the costume. 

Cathy's dance wasn't bad, but poor Vivvi looked horrible in the dance and costume...

[tessat]

First off - was that a brand new Range Rover - even if it wasn't I'm jealous!

Kendall's dance horrible - no emotion - the kid can't concentrate on more than one thing at a time! Any of the other girls would have nailed it. I liked Nicayah's dance - Abby was playing on her phone and not even watching it. Can not believe Kendall won! I can understand Nicayah's being upset and I don't think she was being a poor sport - she's right and we know how many of these things are rigged.

Did not like Cathy's group dance - I think Vivi is a cute kid but not a dancer at all. Abby's piece was very good and the girls were great - kudos to the piece.

[hellohoping]

I agree with others that whilst Kendall's solo wasn't bad per se, I was thinking the whole time how I'd love to have seen Maddie doing it instead.

I loved the ALDC group dance.

Not so keen on Cathy's group because I was on edge wanting Vivi to do well and not be shown up. Poor kid shouldn't have been in that costume - I don't know that Cathy's doing her any favours having her dance with those girls but I'm sure the meaning was all good.

Seemed a little unfair for the editors to put the bit in about Nikaya shaving her underarms - quite embarrassing for a teenage girl to have that air on television and unnecessary to be in the episode?

[Absolom]

Ratings are in:  898K viewers and a .3 rating.  Small drop from last week.

[meatball77]

Vivi was so uncomfortable in that costume.  I felt bad for her.  She was holding her hands in front of her chests to try to hide it.

She's also obviously not on par with that group of dancers.  She'd be fine if there were fifteen other dancers doing the B corps role with her (and she'd be in the back corner) with the other candy apple girls as the leads.  But she just doesn't fit in with that group and it frankly looked like she was a special needs dancer or a make a wish kid getting her "moment" instead of actually being part of the group.  I hope they don't have her as part of the Candy Apples.  It's just not fair to her.

[RedFire2000]

The Candy Apples group would have had a chance of winning if Vivi wasn't in the dance. She was embarrassing to watch. And then stuck in the back because she can't dance. Also notice she had to hold on to one of the others girl just to hold her leg in the air. Stop forcing that kid to dance, she obviously hates it. 

[Cherry Cola]

This show is such a joke.  I don't give 2 poops about the Candy apple, so I ff through their parts. 

I thought Kendall did better than I had seen before.  

I loved the group dance. Kalani is amazing. I also like Daviana, I think that's her name.  My eyes are drawn to those 2 in the dance. I think Nia is a sweet kid, but clunky when she dances. 

Is, see you in jail honey, all that Cathy has to say? It's silly. 

[hatchetgirl]

Kendall is really just an awful dancer.  She can't stay in a place ever.  She's always falling from one move to another.

Poor Vivi - that child.  I want her to be joyful and happy.  She's not a dancer.

[Rabbittron]

Of course the results are rigged. These are not real dance competitions.

[Cabarb]

I am so sick and tired of hearing Jill tell us every single week this "this is Kendall's opportunity" to show Abby what Kendall can do. How long has Kendall been dancing on this team?? If she hasn't proven it yet, that ship sailed about 3 years ago. Kendall is never going to be a super strong lead dancer. She isn't good! We see it - how is Jill still saying it?!

[Absolom]

I'm more than tired of Jill and Kendall has to prove to Abby, this is her chance, yadda yadda.

I hated the solos.  Can they dance in something besides what looks like nightgowns, please?  I saw nothing that related to Harriet Tubman in Nikaya's dance and Kendall's simply looked manic.  This year's I'm going to show you my underwear can stop also.

[RealityCowgirl]

Not necessarily on topic, but humor me. I live in the Denver TV market, which means we've had not only national programming around the anniversary of Jon Benet Ramsey's murder but extensive local coverage as well. "Black Patsy's" prideful use of that name will never not piss me off.

Edited December 28, 2016 by RealityCowgirl

[taragel]

1 hour ago, RealityCowgirl said:

Not necessarily on topic, but humor me. I live in the Denver TV market, which means we've had not only national programming around the anniversary of Jon Benet Ramsey's murder but extensive local coverage as well. "Black Patsy's" prideful use of that name will never not piss me off.

I don't think her name has any reference to Patsy Ramsey. There was another Patsy who was white at ALDC in the earlier seasons when "Black Patsy" was introduced. That's how she differentiated herself I believe.

[RealityCowgirl]

Except that her name isn't Patsy:

http://dancemoms.wikia.com/wiki/Kaya_Wiley

https://www.google.com/amp/s/neverdateawriter.com/2013/10/11/kaya-morris-wiley-vs-black-patsy-part-1/amp/?client=safari

Now, something I didn't know before reading the second: she claims she hates it but TLC keeps using it. Okay...

You have no say in how you use/respond to it? Really? You never had the power to tell your own mother, who supposedly started it all, to cut it out before it became your calling card on national TV? Really?

Edited December 28, 2016 by RealityCowgirl

[RazzleberryPie]

3 hours ago, taragel said:

I don't think her name has any reference to Patsy Ramsey. There was another Patsy who was white at ALDC in the earlier seasons when "Black Patsy" was introduced. That's how she differentiated herself I believe.

Pretty sure she was indeed calling herself the Black Patsy Ramsey stage mom.

[taragel]

Oh sorry, it was both actually, per that second interview Reality Cowgirl linked above. (It was after Patsy Ramsey, but also there were other moms called Patsy at a previous studio she went to.) I must've missed the first explanation and only heard the second part.

The show has gotten so very stale. It's the same ole' same ole' every single week. Glad this is the last season, if that's actually true.

Edited December 28, 2016 by taragel

[Rylee]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 9:38 AM, taragel said:

The show has gotten so very stale. It's the same ole' same ole' every single week. Glad this is the last season, if that's actually true.

It is stale, but there was so much more they could have been doing with this show.

From what I've read here and various other places, the majority of viewers claim to tune in to see the dancers dance. I realize the show is titled Dance Moms but what do they actually do? The Moms sit, bitch, complain, fight, and make fools of themselves. This is what the script requires of them. Their roles are simple, really and I guess I could say, they play their parts well.

However, since the Moms aren't picky about what they bitch about... Abby, the girls, each other, the genre, the costumes, the choreography, getting a lead, not getting a lead, lack of solo's, other schools and teachers, etc., TPTB could have changed things up from time to time to keep the show fresh, and the "stars" of the show would have still been able to fulfill their duties since the Moms freely bitch about anything and everything, anyway.

A few ideas... (Just little clips and segments, not entire episodes)

 

I think it would have been interesting to see each of the older girls get a chance to choreograph one of their own dance solos, and choose their own music and costume.

Or, choreograph a dance for a mini.

Have Abby do an honest evaluation of each of the girls, and sit down with them and go over their strength and weakness. Discuss realistic goals and what they need to do to achieve them.

Bring in more guest choreographers! And give the girls age appropriate choreography.

Prepare and send the girls on specific auditions.

Bring in new dancers, (without forcing them down the viewers throats.)  Introduce them slowly and see how they fit in.

Find new studios to compete against. It gives the viewers new talent to watch.

Have an entire episode or a special each season of just the girls dancing. I realize ballet might not be their thing, so maybe not the Nutcracker but my girls' dance company did the Nativity every year, another local company puts on a Rudolph show each year. Even a recital would have been nice as long as it gave us a break from all the drama, yelling and anger.

Get rid of Jill and Kendall's storyline! Just get rid of Jill and Kendall.

Put some fun in each episode, even if they have to fake it like they do everything else. The show isn't fun to watch.

 

Like I said, I know it's "Dance Moms," and they seemed to focus on what created the most buzz... the OUTRAGEOUS behavior of the adults, but I do believe what kept the viewers tuning in week after week, was to see the girls and watch them dance. If they had focused on keeping the storylines fresh, (scripted or not) with fresh choreography, the Moms would still find plenty to bitch and fight about, and they may have been able to keep the show going awhile longer.

[realdancemom]

Rylee, nice ideas!!  I especially like the idea of Abby giving honest evaluations.  However, I don't know if that will work since Kalani is supposed to be on the same level or only slightly better as Kendall and Nia.  We know that's not true.  But I would have loved to see this if it was a group of girls that were similar in level.  Then they could have positives and negatives but one dancer isn't clearly above the others.

[Rebecca]

Cathy needs to quit trying to make Vivianne happen. Vivianne doesn't even want to make Vivianne happen.

[Rylee]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 11:25 AM, realdancemom said:

Rylee, nice ideas!!  I especially like the idea of Abby giving honest evaluations.  However, I don't know if that will work since Kalani is supposed to be on the same level or only slightly better as Kendall and Nia.  We know that's not true.  But I would have loved to see this if it was a group of girls that were similar in level.  Then they could have positives and negatives but one dancer isn't clearly above the others.

I would most like to see the older girls choreograph their own solo or even a group number. I think it would be very telling as I'm sure they would choose a song they love, a genre they feel they are successful at performing and a costume they feel they look good in, and therefor, confident wearing. It would also be interesting to see what the mothers would come up with to complain about since it was their daughter's choice, but I'm sure they'd find something.

For evaluations, I imagine Abby having a private conference with each girl and their Mom in her office, and going over a written evaluation/report card. Of course, the Mom would totally disagree with any constructive criticism. Later, the mothers would have a bitch-fest when comparing the girls' report cards... Holly would try to sound intelligent while remaining delusional, Kira wouldn't even have Kalani's report card to refer to because she would have already shredded it in Abby's face at the conference, and while Jill reads Kendall's report card out loud, Ashlee would agree with any negative comment Abby made about Kendall. Naturally, Jill and Kendall would storm out of the studio, mad at both Abby and Ashlee. LOL

[realdancemom]

Rylee, I think there was an episode in Season 6 where the girls and moms supposedly made up a routine.  They didn't do too well in the competition.  I think Abby was busy with the minis.  Of course, we don't really know if they did choreograph the routine or not.  My daughters have gone to different studios, e.g competition, ballet, etc.  Some studios are really good at making girls choreograph their routines.  As adults, my daughters do that a lot now at different studios.  But it was the experience they had as students that helped them do this.  High school dance companies are good for this too.

I can see the evaluations going exactly like your scenario even though they are supposed to be private and one-to-one consultations.

[nancy444]

On 1/1/2017 at 2:40 PM, Rebecca said:

Cathy needs to quit trying to make Vivianne happen. Vivianne doesn't even want to make Vivianne happen.

AMEN, Sistah!

First of all, I'm always suspicious of mothers who insist that their adolescent-age daughter "is my BFF!"   Lady...your kid will have PLENTY of BFF's.  She doesn't need another BFF, especially a delusional, narcissistic, menopausal one...she needs a mother.

Secondly, the role of a real BFF is to be honest with you and not let you leave the house in such an unflattering, overly-mature outfit like the one Vivi was made to wear.  If my BFF told me that outfit looked flattering on me, I'd seriously question her motives.  Does Cathy have a subconscious need to look better than her own daughter?  It's a legitimate question, especially in light of the fact that Abby once accused Cathy of choosing to adopt because Cathy feared "getting fat" during pregnancy.  The comment didn't just come out of thin air, either...if I recall, it sounded like Abby was referring to something Cathy shared with her previously.  At any rate, Cathy didn't deny it.  Deliberately putting her daughter in situations where she doesn't look her best suggests some deep psychological issues.  (I know...my own adoptive mother dressed me like a boy until I was a teenager, cutting my hair in a Pixie cut while I begged for long hair, and she turned out to be a textbook man-hating Borderline Personality.)

Finally, it's obvious to everyone that Vivi can't dance.  Stubbornly shoving that poor kid up on stage, over and over again, in front of millions of viewers, is akin to child abuse.  Where is Dad in all of this?  A father with even a small set of balls would put a stop to his wife's delusional dreams of making the kid a "star", which I think is a big part of Cathy's original motivation for taking this gig in the first place.  If being on the show was ONLY about Cathy's fame and success, we'd never have had to suffer through several seasons of watching Vivi up on stage, surrounded by thin, graceful, agile dancers, while the poor thing stands there doing her best interpretation of a tree stump.

Seriously.  My pet rock makes a more compelling dancer.

[Fiero425]

4 hours ago, nancy444 said:

AMEN, Sistah!

First of all, I'm always suspicious of mothers who insist that their adolescent-age daughter "is my BFF!"   Lady...your kid will have PLENTY of BFF's.  She doesn't need another BFF, especially a delusional, narcissistic, menopausal one...she needs a mother.

Secondly, the role of a real BFF is to be honest with you and not let you leave the house in such an unflattering, overly-mature outfit like the one Vivi was made to wear.  If my BFF told me that outfit looked flattering on me, I'd seriously question her motives.  Does Cathy have a subconscious need to look better than her own daughter?  It's a legitimate question, especially in light of the fact that Abby once accused Cathy of choosing to adopt because Cathy feared "getting fat" during pregnancy.  The comment didn't just come out of thin air, either...if I recall, it sounded like Abby was referring to something Cathy shared with her previously.  At any rate, Cathy didn't deny it.  Deliberately putting her daughter in situations where she doesn't look her best suggests some deep psychological issues.  (I know...my own adoptive mother dressed me like a boy until I was a teenager, cutting my hair in a Pixie cut while I begged for long hair, and she turned out to be a textbook man-hating Borderline Personality.)

Finally, it's obvious to everyone that Vivi can't dance.  Stubbornly shoving that poor kid up on stage, over and over again, in front of millions of viewers, is akin to child abuse.  Where is Dad in all of this?  A father with even a small set of balls would put a stop to his wife's delusional dreams of making the kid a "star", which I think is a big part of Cathy's original motivation for taking this gig in the first place.  If being on the show was ONLY about Cathy's fame and success, we'd never have had to suffer through several seasons of watching Vivi up on stage, surrounded by thin, graceful, agile dancers, while the poor thing stands there doing her best interpretation of a tree stump.

Seriously.  My pet rock makes a more compelling dancer.

Besides all you catalogued, Cathy's truly delusional! She creates these routines with the help of other choreographers that aren't close to being good enough to beat the ALDC! It's amazing to see her hope and confidence of winning when she winds up being 4th, 5th, a couple times 8th or 9th; sometimes traveling cross country just to try and beat Abby! She spends so much; that use of "Chandelier" cost thousands of dollars! She wasn't even close to winning that competition! That part of the show I won't miss! MDP at least was competitive and legitimately could win when CA didn't have a prayer! ;-)

[Absolom]

I must remind you that Cathy didn't spend a dime.  It was all planned, staged, and paid for by production including the "competition" alleged placement.

[Fiero425]

Watching the last season on tape and I'm so disappointed in the girls! The moms were bad enough, but the kids started acting entitled and were rather lazy! They complained about Abby giving them the same kinds of routines, but when they're asked to do something different, they can't seem to handle it! Even Kalani showed she's no better by allowing Kira to announce "she's not doing the solo" instead of making the decision herself! She's the oldest there and's still acting like a child that needs her mommy to handle everything! What is she going to do when out on her own; call Kira to deal with any and all situations? It was so sad to see the girls go out this way; losers, defeated, and so self-entitled it's sickening! You expect the pathetic moms to go out b!tchin', signifying on the minis, and quite hysterical in dealing with how Abby beat them until the last days of the show! They were truly pathetic! ;-(

[SevenCostanza]

On 3/24/2018 at 5:36 PM, nancy444 said:

AMEN, Sistah!

First of all, I'm always suspicious of mothers who insist that their adolescent-age daughter "is my BFF!"   Lady...your kid will have PLENTY of BFF's.  She doesn't need another BFF, especially a delusional, narcissistic, menopausal one...she needs a mother.

Secondly, the role of a real BFF is to be honest with you and not let you leave the house in such an unflattering, overly-mature outfit like the one Vivi was made to wear.  If my BFF told me that outfit looked flattering on me, I'd seriously question her motives.  Does Cathy have a subconscious need to look better than her own daughter?  It's a legitimate question, especially in light of the fact that Abby once accused Cathy of choosing to adopt because Cathy feared "getting fat" during pregnancy.  The comment didn't just come out of thin air, either...if I recall, it sounded like Abby was referring to something Cathy shared with her previously.  At any rate, Cathy didn't deny it.  Deliberately putting her daughter in situations where she doesn't look her best suggests some deep psychological issues.  (I know...my own adoptive mother dressed me like a boy until I was a teenager, cutting my hair in a Pixie cut while I begged for long hair, and she turned out to be a textbook man-hating Borderline Personality.)

Finally, it's obvious to everyone that Vivi can't dance.  Stubbornly shoving that poor kid up on stage, over and over again, in front of millions of viewers, is akin to child abuse.  Where is Dad in all of this?  A father with even a small set of balls would put a stop to his wife's delusional dreams of making the kid a "star", which I think is a big part of Cathy's original motivation for taking this gig in the first place.  If being on the show was ONLY about Cathy's fame and success, we'd never have had to suffer through several seasons of watching Vivi up on stage, surrounded by thin, graceful, agile dancers, while the poor thing stands there doing her best interpretation of a tree stump.

Seriously.  My pet rock makes a more compelling dancer.

Not only can't she dance, she doesn't even want to.   I'd hate having Cathy for a mother.