S04.E07: Happy Unburdening

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Daniel worries his life has gotten a little too real; with Jared's help, Janet is loosening her grip on the past; Teddy opens up to Ted Senior about what he really wants for his future; Amantha reconnects with her past in an unexpected way.

[Fisher King]

3 sneak peeks from tonight's episode.

Spoiler

http://www.sundance.tv/series/rectify/videos/rectify-episode-407-sneak-peek-happy-unburdening

[Primetimer]

Images of purgatory and death as new beginning in the show's penultimate episode.

View the full article

[Armchair Critic]

I called it, Foulkes was buddies with Chris's father and that's why Chris was let go. Okay got to finish the episode but I got excited when I saw that part.

[AuntiePam]

A thousand Likes for the thoughtful and perceptive recap. 

Is it true that part of this intensive therapy is to relive the event until it becomes boring?  Because I can see how that might work.

I will have to rewatch Person, Daggett, and Pickens to suss out who was protecting whom.  The writers tried to simplify it but  I needed a diagram.  George lied to protect Daniel? 

Very curious about what Judy Dean wrote to Janet.  Would Bobby Dean have convinced his mother that Daniel is innocent? 

Teddy Jr. did indeed need a hug from his dad.  There's still time.

[justmehere]

That was so painful. Brutal recollection of Daniel's rape and the start of his withdrawal into a separate world -- the idea of making him relive it over and over and over ... I don't know. It's harsh and seems like it could be problematic. He does seem to be on a new road. It's just going to take him a long, long time. And if what looks like is coming with the D.A., sheriff, and former sheriff actually is, how can he survive having his life stolen? I want to kill Foulkes myself.

Re: the recollections: it seems like the previous sheriff has spent a lot of time, a really significant amount, going over and over the whole incident in his mind. I don't think it ever completely left him, so that would help keep memories fresh.

Teddy and Tawney -- she's grown so much and he seems to be drowning; he's obviously in a world of pain yet is so supportive of her. My heart absolutely broke during their conversation. Bravo, Clayne Crawford for a spectacular performance through the whole episode.

Ted & Teddy -- equally heartbreaking in both their scenes. I'm kind of worried for Teddy, but the offer to come home whenever he needs to might be a lifeline. There wasn't a hug, but the offer was meaningful.

Ted & Janet -- He too is in a world of pain but doesn't have the ability to express himself as well as Teddy does. Janet's lifeline to him was beautifully simple and showed how well she knows him. The simple I love you - his reaction seemed like the most direct emotion he's shown, and it obviously surprised him. They have hope. Janet herself seems to be making some peace at last.

I can't believe there's only one episode left. This show is something else. It's been a real privilege, and I can't wait to see what Ray McKinnon does next. Wish they'd get some awards love.

(One small negative: I generally don't even hear a lot of the score in shows -- it just goes into my subconscious -- but it was intrusive enough in this episode that it bothered me in a couple of scenes. Just too heavy-handed.)

[Armchair Critic]

5 hours ago, justmehere said:

I'm kind of worried for Teddy, but the offer to come home whenever he needs to might be a lifeline.

I noticed Ted referred to Janet as "your mother" in that scene which was a nice touch.

[Ilovecomputers]

We had trouble hearing some of the dialogue, even though we backed it up a few times. When Ted Sr. was mulching, what was the last remark he made before he went in the house? It sounded like, "I'm with Janet," but we couldn't make it out :(

So, will Chloe leave or stay? Will Ted and Janet split or not? Will Teddy and Tawny split or not? A lot to wrap up in the last episode. I really appreciated the extra 20 minutes of episode filled with 18:30 of commercials.

[Ilovecomputers]

Kerwin was one of my favorite characters. Hope the actor got an award for his role.

[pasdetrois]

I'm starting to mourn the loss of this sublime show.

With Janet flapping around so much over the seasons, Ted has been overlooked. In the last few episodes, the writers and actor show us how lonely and marginalized he is. He got lost in the family's drama and strong personalities. I felt his pain.

I love how all the actors held onto their characters this entire time. For me, a great strength and blessing of this show has been the naturalness of the acting and dialog. Weirdly, it's less about Daniel for me, and more about his family's struggles.

I'm beginning to wonder if we have the dawning of another great Phyllip Seymour Hoffman in Clayne Crawford.

There is an article in the Washington Post about a trauma treatment protocol that's different that the traditional PTSD treatment. It's called post-traumatic growth (PTG) and it doesn't do the trauma-immersion thing we see Daniel going through.

[Ms Lark]

Man, Chloe was really pissing me off. She's trying to latch onto Daniel last minute as a baby daddy. I'm so glad he is looking at reality, which it seems she doesn't. How the heck could they have a baby, pay for healthcare, food, diapers, and all the other things a newborn will need on his meager salary? She's a freaking idiot and lazy to boot. He's broken and until he gets himself together, the stress alone is a recipe for tragedy. Oy. Please do not let them stay together! Although, if Daniel were to move into the loft alone after she's gone, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

That said, other than Chloe, I really enjoyed this episode. Next week is 1 hr 50 min, so hopefully enough time to wrap this up decently. I hope Tawney follows her dream and doesn't let Teddy stomp all over it with his usual asshole self. I hope Janet and Ted stay together, just because. And most of all, I hope Daniel is exonerated and the real killer (Trey? George?) is finally exposed.

[nodorothyparker]

Ted first referred to Janet as "your mother" when talking to Teddy and then corrected to "I meant Janet."  It was an interesting callback to the very first episode when after apparently years of Teddy calling Janet "Mom" she asked him to call her by her first name for Daniel's sake.

There were some interesting family dynamics at play in this episode.  Despite Janet not being "your mother" Teddy needed her support to break the news to Ted, who's been so lost in all this that he couldn't seem to hide his disappointment or give his son the hug he was obviously wanting.  Amantha reverted to bitchy in her scene with Janet and Jared cleaning out the attic but it confirmed for me what's been suggested all along in that Janet was pretty checked out and left her remaining child to pretty much fend for herself in the time period when Daniel went to prison and then their father died.  Teddy feels oddly at peace with the end of his career and his marriage but still completely at loose ends.  Clayne Crawford always manages to do so much even when he doesn't have a lot.  I'm glad Tawney has a plan and feels good about it but I'm okay with it if we don't see her again.  For all practical purposes, she's no longer a member of the family or part of the story and there's still so much ground to cover.

I understand Amantha's anger at Bobby for nearly beating her brother to death, but it would have been nice in an episode where she was acknowledging the rest of the toll all of this taken to remember that Bobby was a kid too when his sister was murdered and that he's also spent a lifetime steeped in it.

It seems we're finally coming in for a landing on what we've long suspected:  that Foulkes saw weird kid Daniel as a convenient scapegoat to keep his good friend's promising kid out of trouble and build a political career on.  It feels weird that it's almost anticlimactic at this point in that it's what we wanted but as the show has been asking for four seasons now, how much does it really matter in the end?  The damage is already done for Daniel and everyone involved.  It was just hard to watch the previous sheriff talking and talking and not to think "None of this troubled you enough to keep asking questions before you let a scared 18-year-old kid be railroaded off to death row?" even though I know that that does happen.

Aden Young is of course amazing and as expected it was hard to breathe in his cold open reliving the rape.   It was the scenes with Chloe talking about how small and limited his future is that really got me though.   No, he's not really in a place financially or emotionally to be anyone's father or partner or provider right now, but he clearly doesn't see that ever being an option even after all the time he's already lost which means he's only envisioning a lot of long lonely years still stretching out ahead of him.  Probably not unrealistic, but still kind of heartbreaking.

Edited December 8, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Stella]

41 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Aden Young is of course amazing and as expected it was hard to breathe in his cold open reliving the rape.   It was the scenes with Chloe talking about how small and limited his future is that really got me though.   No, he's not really in a place financially or emotionally to be anyone's father or partner or provider right now, but he clearly doesn't see that ever being an option even after all the time he's already lost which means he's only envisioning a lot of long lonely years still stretching out ahead of him.  Probably not unrealistic, but still kind of heartbreaking.

It was very moving. And for me it encapsulates why Daniel being cleared would actually mean everything for his future.

43 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

It feels weird that it's almost anticlimactic at this point in that it's what we wanted but as the show has been asking for four seasons now, how much does it really matter in the end?

It may be a bit anticlimactic but I think it would matter tremendously. All the damage done, all the pain, heartbreak, wrecked lives, etc. will always be there, that is certain. But if Daniel was exonerated I believe it would be far easier for the entire family to move forward. Daniel deserves that truth be told.

[nodorothyparker]

Yes, you're right in that it does matter for him to have a better shot at the future and for all of our characters to find resolution and move on.  What I mean is that it doesn't undo the 20 years lost or the rape or any of the pain or isolation that made him the man he is now.  Ultimately guilty or innocent, that damage is done and he has to live with that.

I've always had a fair admiration for the fact that the show has never tried to portray it as "Oh he was cleared, it's all good now." like the speaker at Amantha's Thrifty Town convention wanted to last season.  That, I think, has been the point of stringing out the who killed Hanna story over four seasons and never coming out and telling us emphatically from the start that Daniel was an innocent rather than let us draw our own conclusions. 

[Paloma]

Like AuntiePam, I am confused about who was supposed to be protecting whom when the kids were brought in after Hanna's murder. They seemed to be saying that Trey was protecting Daniel because Daniel was his friend, but if that was true then why did Trey as an adult try to make it look like Daniel killed George (who actually committed suicide)? Guess I just don't understand the relationships between Daniel, Trey, George, and the others either as teenagers or as adults.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I am really starting to think I'm weird for loving this show so damn hard. I honestly feel it's been of more therapeutic value to me than actual therapy. The empathy and hope right alongside the absolute depths and isolation are just so affecting in a way I can't describe. 

But enough about my dumb ass. Daniel's recollection of assault was arguably the "best" (in terms of telegraphing the brutality of rape) depiction of sexual assault I've ever heard. What got me was that he never said the word rape or talked about the actual pain of penetration--just how they spread him apart and "it started". His tears when he was talking about the diamond droplet. The brief relief when a weight was off his back and the betrayal of a new weight being added. His contained rage and confusion when he described the person whining about having to go last. Just, holy shit. Small nitpick: would have rather seen more of the therapist than Chloe. 

Teddy, I've hated you and now I want to give you a hug and tell you it's not your fault that your bio mother left. Janet and Ted I think can get through their struggles and I was glad to see the strong foundation of their relationship (which Teddy and Tawnwy lacked) in the bathtub scene.

God, I hope Daniel is exonerated. But who did it? I feel, and I'm not spoiled, that there's no chance Daniel is responsible. I've known it since Kerwin said so. IMO this show is too good to go against its moral compass. But WHO DID IT? It's just so crazy to me that it's about to be the last episode and I still really have no idea who killed Hannah Dean. George is my best guess, but who knows? Or maybe it was all an accident and they just wanted to knock her out, not kill her. 

Sorry for gushing. Wait, no I'm not.

Edited December 9, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[Ilovecomputers]

Trey killed Hannah.  That is the only thing that makes sense to me. George knew it. When George and Trey met for the last time, George said something like, "The truth will finally have to come out."  I think he was signaling to Trey he would no longer cover for him. 

[Armchair Critic]

6 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Ted first referred to Janet as "your mother" when talking to Teddy and then corrected to "I meant Janet."

I missed that. That's sad and it changes my post further up the thread.

[peeayebee]

5 hours ago, Stella said:

It may be a bit anticlimactic but I think it would matter tremendously. All the damage done, all the pain, heartbreak, wrecked lives, etc. will always be there, that is certain. But if Daniel was exonerated I believe it would be far easier for the entire family to move forward. Daniel deserves that truth be told.

Yes, and like he was telling Chloe, he can't move across the street without having to report it. Being exonerated would free him up in more ways than one. I don't think Daniel would dwell on anger for all those undeserved years in prison.

 

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

Like AuntiePam, I am confused about who was supposed to be protecting whom when the kids were brought in after Hanna's murder. They seemed to be saying that Trey was protecting Daniel because Daniel was his friend, but if that was true then why did Trey as an adult try to make it look like Daniel killed George (who actually committed suicide)? Guess I just don't understand the relationships between Daniel, Trey, George, and the others either as teenagers or as adults.

I got a little confused too, but it seemed they said that Trey was protecting his friend Daniel. They used to be close. After so many years, it's not surprised that Trey would change. I think until we find out what really happened, we can't really figure out the motivations. My vote for the guilty party is Chris.

I was tearing up in the scene betw Teddy and Tawny. It was so sweet and lovely.

I'm sorry Ted couldn't hug Teddy. I didn't really understand why Teddy was having such a hard time telling him about the divorce. Was it just that he didn't want to disappoint his father? Seems there was something more that I missed or have forgotten about.

I loved the scene with Pickles. 

I hate the music. I'm sure it wasn't like this in the first and second seasons.

[kieyra]

2 hours ago, Paloma said:

Like AuntiePam, I am confused about who was supposed to be protecting whom when the kids were brought in after Hanna's murder. They seemed to be saying that Trey was protecting Daniel because Daniel was his friend, but if that was true then why did Trey as an adult try to make it look like Daniel killed George (who actually committed suicide)? Guess I just don't understand the relationships between Daniel, Trey, George, and the others either as teenagers or as adults.

I may be wrong as I also found that series of scenes very oblique, but my take is that Trey was actually covering for Chris. After all, Trey is the one who said "Go ask Roger" a few episodes ago. 

I thought the sequence of the conversation was that Trey refused to admit he'd seen ANY rape, and became more stubborn the harder they pushed. Then the sheriffs decided *on their own* that he was covering for Daniel. But without evidence of that, and given "Go ask Roger", it seems more likely he was covering for Chris and simply refused to take the additional step to also lie and implicate Daniel. He was surprised George had made up that detail, I think?

They never theorized out loud that Trey was protecting Chris, by the way. It's just what I felt the show was inviting me to contemplate.

Can someone remind me if we know for sure (well, DNA) if either George or Trey raped Hannah?

If not, I'm starting to lean towards Trey not having done anything to Hannah, just happened to be under the thumb of the rich kid and his family. Maybe continued to be.

I'm really confused about the piece of dialogue where the older sheriff seemed to be saying Chris's father made him privately confess to raping Hannah? Or worse? Was anyone able to understand the implication there? The part about his father "holding his feet to the fire"?

Poor Chloe/Caitlin Fitzgerald. It's like she and the soundtrack were teleported in from a lesser show. 

I'm sorry, guys, I see I'm at a table for one, but I really don't want to spend any more time with the Teds. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by kieyra

[Kathemy]

So, I'm just gonna be shallow and pissed off that I don't think Daniel and Tawney will even meet again. They actually wasted the whole last season on Manic Pixie Dream Girl. So did not see that one coming.

Stellar episode, though.

[Kathemy]

4 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Can someone remind if we know for sure (well, DNA) if either George or Trey raped Hannah?

We only know that Chris did. His was the only DNA they managed to isolate.

[kieyra]

7 minutes ago, Kathemy said:

So, I'm just gonna be shallow and pissed off that I don't think Daniel and Tawney will even meet again. They actually wasted the whole last season on Manic Pixie Dream Girl. So did not see that one coming.

Stellar episode, though.

Fingers crossed that's not the case. That would be so odd--their unique connection was set up in the pilot. It doesn't mean they have to be romantically involved/happily-ever-after but they should at least be able to communicate. 

And it would be a crime not to have the two actors on screen together again.

Edited December 9, 2016 by kieyra

[Kathemy]

Just now, kieyra said:

Fingers crossed that's not the case. That would be so odd--their unique connection was set up in the pilot. It doesn't mean they have to be romantic involved/happily-ever-after but they should at least be able to communicate. 

The way I see it the only shot Daniel and Tawney has to meet is if they do a timejump in the final episode.

[kieyra]

So I guess my final pre-finale theory is that Chris raped and killed Hannah, and George and Trey knew it but kept their mouths shut due to external pressure (maybe their families were threatened?).

The knowledge made Trey bitter and cynical, and made George kill himself. 

I suppose there is a sleeper possibility--that Chris raped her and George killed her later. 

I don't think Trey or an as-yet unnamed party were involved in the rape or murder.

Edited December 9, 2016 by kieyra

[Stella]

1 minute ago, kieyra said:

I'm really confused about the piece of dialogue where the older sheriff seemed to be saying Chris's father made him privately confess to raping Hannah? Or worse? Was anyone able to understand the implication there? The part about his father "holding his feet to the fire"?

The implication was to me that Chris's father either got wind of the situation (probably from Foulkes)(or less likely Chris) and then forced Chris to tell him what happened. The implication to me was Chris's dad was a hard ass guy, Chris was afraid of him I think the sheriff said. Then the dad colludes with Foulkes to manage the outcome - Daniel's "guilt".

10 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I thought the sequence of the conversation was that Trey refused to admit he'd seen ANY rape, and became more stubborn the harder they pushed. Then the sheriffs decided *on their own* that he was covering for Daniel. But without evidence of that, and given "Go ask Roger", it seems more likely he was covering for Chris and simply refused to take the additional step to also lie and implicate Daniel. He was surprised George had made up that detail, I think? 

I kind of agree with this in that Trey never fingered Daniel. All 3 guys probably raped Hannah, even though only Chris's DNA was found. That doesn't mean Trey and George didn't rape her as well. They were testing a clothing garment which apparently only Chris handled, wiping himself or something like that. So all 3 were scared and probably were trying to keep their stories consistent. But when George fingers Daniel I think Trey is surprised and unwilling to lie on that point. So it seems if Trey was under pressure from Chris's dad he would have also confirmed Daniel as George did.

But this makes sense too:

4 minutes ago, kieyra said:

So I guess my final pre-finale theory is that Chris raped and killed Hannah, and George and Trey knew it but kept their mouths shut due to external pressure (maybe their families were threatened?).

And also if both Trey and George raped Hannah then they would go along with the plan for obvious reasons. I am not convinced about Trey's involvement. One mystery still is why did Trey go back? He could have either killed Hannah then, or witnessed the killing - probably Chris?

[kieyra]

@stella, not quoting your whole post because I'm typing with my thumbs, but I'd forgotten the "Trey went back" thing. The perils of trying to follow the whodunnit aspect with a faulty short-term memory.

Yes, I suppose it was either only Chris or it was all three. 

Edited to add: although I will say that I've always felt Trey was a red herring, at least in terms of Hannah's actual murder. Obviously he's culpable in a lot of cover up, including George's suicide. But from a writing standpoint, yes, we've seen that he's an asshole, but we've also seen him express what seems like a sincere frustration that no one else sees the obvious. But maybe I'm still over-fixating on his scene(s?) with Jon in Go Ask Roger.

Edited December 9, 2016 by kieyra

[Ilovecomputers]

I thought George's DNA was also found. 

They had better have some resolution about Tawny and Daniel. I can see her going to Nashville to explore any possibility of a relationship with Daniel. If they are never on screen again, I will--I don't know what.

We're going to miss this show something awful. My husband and I have started talking to each other in exaggerated Southern accents, I call him by his initials, and he calls me "[First Name]-Belle."  If you say something slowly, like Daniel does, somehow it sounds more profound. 

[Stella]

16 minutes ago, kieyra said:

@stella, not quoting your whole post because I'm typing with my thumbs, but I'd forgotten the "Trey went back" thing. The perils of trying to follow the whodunnit aspect with a faulty short-term memory.

Yes, I suppose it was either only Chris or it was all three. 

Edited to add: although I will say that I've always felt Trey was a red herring, at least in terms of Hannah's actual murder. Obviously he's culpable in a lot of cover up, including George's suicide. But from a writing standpoint, yes, we've seen that he's an asshole, but we've also seen him express what seems like a sincere frustration that no one else sees the obvious. But maybe I'm still over-fixating on his scene(s?) with Jon in Go Ask Roger.

LOL it maddens me that I have watched the entire series at least 3 times (except the current one) and I am constantly forgetting details I should know.

I too have thought Trey was a bit too obvious. Someone pointed out I think on this board but not sure really, that Hannah's bedroom door had a whole slew of locks on the inside of the door. Like at least 5 and when I watched everything again before this season I noticed them in the scene where Jared explores her room. That seems an interesting detail to include for no apparent reason. I'm not ruling out anything yet.

And I'm confused about the DNA too but I know the sheriff told Trey his wasn't found. Not sure about George's - another detail poorly remembered.

[Stella]

1 hour ago, Kathemy said:

So, I'm just gonna be shallow and pissed off that I don't think Daniel and Tawney will even meet again. They actually wasted the whole last season on Manic Pixie Dream Girl. So did not see that one coming.

Stellar episode, though.

Me too. I cannot understand how this show peopled with painfully realistic characters added this fantasy woman in the final season. She is definitely a dream girl. Of course she has an album collection. Of course she's living in a funky artist's loft. Of course she is cooler than cool. Of course she's pregnant. Of course she's having the baby. I will be disappointed if we have to see her again. Hopefully she will have moved by next episode.

When they first introduced her I had a feint hope that she would introduce Daniel to making art. I could see this as a therapeutic process for him and certainly he strikes me as having an artistic soul. A friend would have been good. That would have felt true to me but this faux relationship stuff - ugh. It pissed me off that they had the dance scene. We had that lovely dance scene with Tawny and Daniel. At least do something different with Daniel and Chloe.

The connection Tawny and Daniel had was so beautiful. It makes me angry and sad that we likely won't see them together again, shallow or not.

I do feel really good about Tawny's path though. Teddy's reaction was exactly how I felt.

[kieyra]

@stella, I'd forgotten till you said it, but I thought the same thing at first--that Chloe would lead Daniel (platonically) to some form of artistic expression. I wonder if some of that was filmed but got cut. Without that, they forgot to give her any realistic or redeeming qualities except for providing some (slightly whiny) unconditional support for Daniel.

Argh! I really liked the actress in Masters of Sex.

[Stella]

4 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Argh! I really liked the actress in Masters of Sex.

Yeah me too. My dislike is not about the actress, only the character.

[Ilovecomputers]

It seems like the creator expected/hoped to have longer to tell this story but is now rushed to finish it. Wasn't Gunsmoke on for 20 years?  Why couldn't Rectify have more time?  I have to say, I only started watching because of an obscure list about bingeable TV shows--Sundance never promoted it as it deserved to be promoted. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

Chloe is a waste of time. It's not the actress. She's playing a manic pixie dream girl very well. It's just the show doesn't need a MPDG. 

Whew. Glad I got that out. 

What I came back to say was I loved the scene with Pickles and the huge genuine smile Daniel gave him when he heard about the job.

[AuntiePam]

1 hour ago, kieyra said:

@stella, I'd forgotten till you said it, but I thought the same thing at first--that Chloe would lead Daniel (platonically) to some form of artistic expression. I wonder if some of that was filmed but got cut. Without that, they forgot to give her any realistic or redeeming qualities except for providing some (slightly whiny) unconditional support for Daniel.

There's still time for that- - for Daniel to be led by Chloe to artistic impression.

I'm not crazy about Chloe either.  But if the writers wanted a new character who would be believable as a catalyst for change in Daniel's life, then I think they did okay. 

That character would have to be female.  (Daniel's not dead, sexually.)  He's in Nashville, a mecca for artistic types -- mostly musicians but where musicians go, other artists will follow.  He's working in a warehouse, presumably in a warehouse district.  What happens to warehouses when the economy is down?  Entrepreneurs of various types move in and start businesses, clubs, art galleries.  MPDG's gravitate to those places.  So even if she's cliche, she's a believable cliche. 

It's okay that she's pregnant because it means she's not totally free of responsibility. 

What surprised me this week was that she's just as tall as Daniel. 

George's guilt?  In the first episode, he asked Trey "Did you do it?", and it seemed like George truly didn't know who killed Hannah.  The way he said it was without artifice, very honest.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I feel like if we're to believe George, Trey, or Chris killed Hannah than one of them really is a total sociopath who is incapable of remorse and more than capable of fooling everyone for nearly twenty years.

The possibilities are that George asked Trey who killed Hannah as a double bluff knowing he himself did it--and then killed himself after what seemed to be a years spanning downward spiral into despair. So, I really doubt it's him. 

Trey is the most obvious answer. He hid a body to cover his own ass and then let Daggett search his house while he watched cartoons with his daughter, seemingly without a care and totally confident he had hidden the evidence too well for the stupid police find. He had the best poker face during the initial interrogation and held the line all these years--staying in Paulie, where he regularly saw the family whose innocent son was going to die because of him. And even if he didn't kill her, the mind games he played on Daniel, the lengths he went to, were epically fucked up.

Chris seems too wimpy to have killed her. He appears to suck at lying and caved immediately once the pressure was on. He just seems fundamentally weak. But he doesn't look like a rapist either and he is, and he got away with it. Would someone who got away with everything including murder think he could feign remorse and set a false trail leading back to Trey and George? Why not?

Or...all three are red herrings and the killer is an unknown entity. Which I also seriously doubt. My money, personally, is on Trey. I don't really think she show's focus is about being a whodunnit, or justice, or pulling a fast one on the audience. It's about rectification. Being unable to correct a mistake. Trey's been suspicious since episode one. Maybe the answer has been there all along and the chickens are coming to roost.

Edited December 9, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[Ilovecomputers]

Quote

But he doesn't look like a rapist either

I agreed with just about everything else you said, but I have to say that not all rapists look like rapists. Ted Bundy comes to mind--attractive, intelligent and deadly. 

[Superpole2000]

There was a lot of talking about the past in this episode, much of which just came across as a big info dump. I can't help but think it would have been more entertaining had they shown some of this as a flashback.

[The Mighty Peanut]

6 hours ago, Ilovecomputers said:

I agreed with just about everything else you said, but I have to say that not all rapists look like rapists. Ted Bundy comes to mind--attractive, intelligent and deadly. 

I totally agree with you. Bundy (not "bunny", autocorrect) didnt look like a serial killer, either. Chris could just be deflecting his guilt by acting like an upstanding citizen, participating in the investigation, feigning remorse over a gang rape. It's not uncommon for kidnappers/murderers to take part in the search for the person they kidnapped/murdered. I just have doubts the show will go the surprise killer way, but who knows?!

Edited December 9, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[Evie]

14 hours ago, Kathemy said:

We only know that Chris did. His was the only DNA they managed to isolate.

I just did a rewatch recently. There was a single sample and a mixed sample. George's DNA matched the single sample. They couldn't isolate the DNA in the mixed sample thus Trey's was cleared even though he later admitted to the sheriff that he had sex with Hanna that night. Chris didn't know that George's DNA matched the single sample so he lawyered up when the sheriff asked for a DNA sample and then confessed to raping Hanna.

[Syren]

16 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I am really starting to think I'm weird for loving this show so damn hard. I honestly feel it's been of more therapeutic value to me than actual therapy. The empathy and hope right alongside the absolute depths and isolation are just so affecting in a way I can't describe. 

If you're weird, so am I. I'm not sure I've ever watched anything that meant so much to me, affected me so much. Watching the previews for next week, I sobbed and teared up instantly upon seeing Kerwin. WTH, me? And for someone who's a huge word nerd, I find myself inadequately explaining what this show means to me all the time.

Quote

But enough about my dumb ass.

Ha! Honestly, this made me laugh out loud.

Quote

 

Daniel's recollection of assault was arguably the "best" (in terms of telegraphing the brutality of rape) depiction of sexual assault I've ever heard. What got me was that he never said the word rape or talked about the actual pain of penetration--just how they spread him apart and "it started". His tears when he was talking about the diamond droplet. The brief relief when a weight was off his back and the betrayal of a new weight being added. His contained rage and confusion when he described the person whining about having to go last. Just, holy shit. Small nitpick: would have rather seen more of the therapist than Chloe. 

I agree about it being  a great depiction even though I was cringing and just wanting it to be over with as soon as possible.

Quote

Teddy, I've hated you and now I want to give you a hug and tell you it's not your fault that your bio mother left. Janet and Ted I think can get through their struggles and I was glad to see the strong foundation of their relationship (which Teddy and Tawnwy lacked) in the bathtub scene.

Clayne Crawford is really amazing in this role. I've said it before, but in lesser hands, this character could've been a one dimensional bad guy. CC and the writers have done a fantastic job making Teddy nuanced. I've gone back and forth on how I feel about him a few times and not because the character has changed or because of bad writing like on lesser shows, but because of the shades and reveals that the writing and CC's portrayal have shown us.
The scene with Tawney was really sweet. They've grown up and apart and I think it's going to be okay for both of them. Tawney just seems to have the head start right now.
I thought it was kinda great to not have anyone mention the gunshot wound 'til the neighbor asked Teddy what was up with his limp. Other shows would've shown us him having to explain what happened to everyone.
"Hunting accident." Hahahaha! Never hunt air dancers out of season, Teddy.

The Janet/Ted/Teddy scene was painful and beautifully done. I couldn't hear what Ted said as he left either but seeing it was "I meant Janet," ouch.
But I think after the bathroom scene, they're going to be okay. Maybe better than okay for the first time in a long time, or ever, even.

Quote

Sorry for gushing. Wait, no I'm not.

Crap, I lost part of your post but I agree with you that since Kerwin said Daniel didn't do it, he didn't. Is that just my Kerwin love showing through? Maybe. And I am glad you and everyone here is here and feels likes gushing about this show as much as I do.

The scene with Person, Daggett and Pickens was really great.  Even though he tried to rationalize some of what went on that day, Pickens wasn't as defensive or assholish as I would've guessed he'd be. That whole bit about how law enforcement gets committed to an idea in their heads of what happened is apparently very true as I've read a lot over the last couple of years about exonorees and how their should've-been-non-existent cases even got prosecuted in the first place. It's frightening how easy it is to put someone away based on basically nothing.
There's no statute of limitations on muder, so Chris could still go to jail for this, right? What's the status with Trey being suspected of killing George? Did that get cleared up or not? Too much time between seasons for my memory to stay caught up, I guess. If Trey saw Chris kill Hannah when he "went back" I would imagine that could be useful info to leverage so he could then just tell the truth about putting George's body in the water and taking Daniel to George's place to implicate him instead.
Why did he do that if he was protecting Daniel the day of Hannah's murder? Does Chris have something else on him?
Weren't there comments made about George being gay and that somehow played into who was covering for whom, etc. after the murder or am I just making all that up in my head? I could swear when George and Trey had their confrontation before George shot himself, something was said that made me think G was in love with someone involved in the murder and that's why he lied about what he saw. And then G's dad said something disparaging about him in a scene with someone...Daggett, maybe, that drove it home that he was gay and his dad had disowned him because of it. They were at his door and then on the porch, I think when that convo took place. Does anyone remember this or am I a crazy person? I've had that idea for seemingly since the beginning of the show but now I don't know if it's because of the actual show or because of some theorizing I did in my own brain or what.

As someone who loathes clutter and stuff, stuff everywhere!, I was thrilled to see the garage and attic getting cleaned out. Can you come help my husband, Jared? He likes to keep useless crap, too. Jared and Janet were great. Nice to see them having a moment or two.
Way to come crap all over it, Amantha.
Liked Amantha's friend Jenny. Another small moment that said a whole lot about the past and maybe the future, too, that this show is so good at.

I'll be very interested to see what Judy said in that letter.

Speaking of letters, I guess Daniel will finally open his next week. Loved his scene with Pickle. Anytime Daniel smiles, I'm tickled to see his load lightened if only for a moment or two.
And Pickle's delight in having a job and being able to tell his Mama about it was just wonderful.

This episode really kicked ass is what I'm saying. Everyone was great. The casting on this show is and always has been stellar.

That was a really insightful and interesting article, Sarah. I forget to read the articles some weeks so I'm now going to catch up.

The finale title makes me so very happy. All I'm sayin'. :-)

 

[kieyra]

5 hours ago, Evie said:

I just did a rewatch recently. There was a single sample and a mixed sample. George's DNA matched the single sample. They couldn't isolate the DNA in the mixed sample thus Trey's was cleared even though he later admitted to the sheriff that he had sex with Hanna that night. Chris didn't know that George's DNA matched the single sample so he lawyered up when the sheriff asked for a DNA sample and then confessed to raping Hanna.

Well, that blows holes in most of my theories. 

[AuntiePam]

5 hours ago, Syren said:

Weren't there comments made about George being gay and that somehow played into who was covering for whom, etc. after the murder or am I just making all that up in my head? I could swear when George and Trey had their confrontation before George shot himself, something was said that made me think G was in love with someone involved in the murder and that's why he lied about what he saw. And then G's dad said something disparaging about him in a scene with someone...Daggett, maybe, that drove it home that he was gay and his dad had disowned him because of it. They were at his door and then on the porch, I think when that convo took place. Does anyone remember this or am I a crazy person? I've had that idea for seemingly since the beginning of the show but now I don't know if it's because of the actual show or because of some theorizing I did in my own brain or what.
 

There wasn't anything in George and Trey's conversation about G being in love with anyone, or protecting anyone.  It was just "Now they know what they didn't know" and "We were just kids" and "Did you kill her?" and "What are you gonna do?"  George comes off as someone who truly doesn't know who killed Hannah. 

I just rewatched the episode with Trey and Daniel at George's trailer.  Trey "confesses" that he let George "suck him off" a few times.  I do remember a scene where George's dad is unsympathetic about George but I don't remember if he was specific as to why. 

[peeayebee]

16 hours ago, Superpole2000 said:

There was a lot of talking about the past in this episode, much of which just came across as a big info dump. I can't help but think it would have been more entertaining had they shown some of this as a flashback.

I agree about the big info dump, didn't like it, but I wouldn't have wanted a flashback. That would have been out of character for the show. I can't think of any other way to have done this.

[candall]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 0:21 AM, justmehere said:

That was so painful. Brutal recollection of Daniel's rape and the start of his withdrawal into a separate world -- the idea of making him relive it over and over and over ... I don't know. It's harsh and seems like it could be problematic.

I was taught the best thing you can do for a friend who was raped is to let her (him) tell you the whole story over and over as many times as she wants, no matter how often or how painful it is to hear.  That's opposite to the natural inclination for most people to comfort and reassure with "there, there, shhhh, it's over now and you're safe."  The way the brain works, an experience that's initially being described "live" as it's being mentally replayed will eventually become, through repetition, an experience that's being recalled and repeated more and more from memory.   (I tried to explain that twelve thirteen different ways and still didn't do a good job, but it always made sense to me.  : /  )

***********************

Could someone remind me about the story of Amantha's former friend, who showed up at the end?

And more, for the short-term memory-impaired among us:  George shot himself early on, Trey obscured the body and the gun in the water, then Trey lured Daniel to George's home (out of town) and tried to make it appear Daniel was involved with George's death.  Hannah's brother (name?) has nothing to do with any of those boys/men, except for beating Daniel to a pulp, and we only saw Chris when he confessed--in the police station, as an adult--to raping Hannah.  Roger is Chris's father.  The "Kerwin" mentioned above is an actor.  Right?

Looks like I'm finally going to have to learn all the peoples' names.  I want to be ready for the finale.

 

This is going to make you all put me on "Ignore," but I like Daniel with Chloe.  Tawny helped him with what he needed back when he was practically inert, but I loooove seeing Daniel sparked up enough to smile and be a little bit smartass, and that's Chloe's bad pixie influence all the way.

Edited December 9, 2016 by candall

[nodorothyparker]

George's dad told Daggett after George's body was found that he didn't believe George would have shot himself because he was weak and easily led and "didn't have any backbone."  He also pointed Daggett in Trey's direction as possibly having something to do with it.  I keep thinking there was another scene where Trey was talking about George's dad thinking he was gay and thus disapproving of it but I can't for the life of me figure out when it would have been.  I may have to go back and look further.

At this point, it feels like it could have been any of the three of them.  Part of me thinks they're going to go with Chris in the end because he got the big successful life that his father wanted for him and would have been willing to use his connection to Foulkes to protect.  It would certainly explain Trey's exasperation with Jon's questions.  I know the former sheriff seemed to think that he was "helping" Daniel by not implicating him, but Trey didn't really offer any information that helped or hurt anyone including Chris.  We still don't know exactly how close any of these boys were to each other.

Amantha tells the story about Jenny early in the first season.  They had been best friends until a couple of years after the murder when she clued Amantha in that all the other kids were going out to the woods where Hanna had been killed and making Daniel the bogeyman.  I think Amantha was upset that everybody knew but her and took it out on her and ended the friendship.  Kerwin was Daniel's friend on death row.  We saw the memory of his walk to his execution at the end of the first season.

I'm fine with Chloe too.  Let's just be honest that you'd have to be a little off center and probably a little manic to be so open to taking someone who's confessed to a murder twice into your life without some prior knowledge of him or an established relationship.  I never got the supposed deep connection Daniel had with Tawney.  I think they were important catalysts for each other but it was also painfully obvious much of the time that Tawney had no idea what he was talking about and that he was reacting to her being the first kind woman he'd been around in 20 years he wasn't related to.  Their story has felt finished to me since the hotel room in season 2.

[Ilovecomputers]

Daniel and Tawny's chemistry was palpable, though--1000 times greater than Daniel and Chloë's. 

I hope to see Kerwin in the final episode too. Maybe after Daniel is finally exonerated he could appear to Daniel and tell him he wouldn't need to watch over Daniel anymore. I know I'll be bawling my eyes out next Wednesday no matter how it ends. 

[candall]

8 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

George's dad told Daggett after George's body was found that he didn't believe George would have shot himself because he was weak and easily led and "didn't have any backbone."  He also pointed Daggett in Trey's direction as possibly having something to do with it.  I keep thinking there was another scene where Trey was talking about George's dad thinking he was gay and thus disapproving of it but I can't for the life of me figure out when it would have been.  I may have to go back and look further.

At this point, it feels like it could have been any of the three of them.  Part of me thinks they're going to go with Chris in the end because he got the big successful life that his father wanted for him and would have been willing to use his connection to Foulkes to protect.  It would certainly explain Trey's exasperation with Jon's questions.  I know the former sheriff seemed to think that he was "helping" Daniel by not implicating him, but Trey didn't really offer any information that helped or hurt anyone including Chris.  We still don't know exactly how close any of these boys were to each other.

Amantha tells the story about Jenny early in the first season.  They had been best friends until a couple of years after the murder when she clued Amantha in that all the other kids were going out to the woods where Hanna had been killed and making Daniel the bogeyman.  I think Amantha was upset that everybody knew but her and took it out on her and ended the friendship.  Kerwin was Daniel's friend on death row.  We saw the memory of his walk to his execution at the end of the first season.

I'm fine with Chloe too.  Let's just be honest that you'd have to be a little off center and probably a little manic to be so open to taking someone who's confessed to a murder twice into your life without some prior knowledge of him or an established relationship.  I never got the supposed deep connection Daniel had with Tawney.  I think they were important catalysts for each other but it was also painfully obvious much of the time that Tawney had no idea what he was talking about and that he was reacting to her being the first kind woman he'd been around in 20 years he wasn't related to.  Their story has felt finished to me since the hotel room in season 2.

Excellent!  Thanks.  I remember the significance of the friend next door on death row--I hadn't marked his name.

That was a long, long callback to Amantha's friend.  Too bad--she seems like rich character material.   I would have enjoyed spending more time on Amantha's lost potential and a little less on the rocky marriage of Tawney and Teddy.

I also have a sense memory of intimations that George's sexuality was "suspect."

I think of Daniel and Tawney this way:  when Daniel's needle was hovering close to zero, Tawney's range of affect between -2 and +2 was perfect.  (Sorry, Tawney fans.)

The PTV recap was impressive.  It was like being back in class with someone pointing out all the imagery of Light in August I hadn't noticed.  This has been quite the remarkable show.

[Stella]

6 hours ago, candall said:

he PTV recap was impressive.  It was like being back in class with someone pointing out all the imagery of Light in August I hadn't noticed.  This has been quite the remarkable show.

Wonderful analogy. Agree completely.

[nodorothyparker]

That has been one of the great joys of discovering this series.  It's like one of the great Southern Gothic novels I love so much only on film instead of on the page.