S03.E09: Snap Back

[CooperTV]

Quote

As the U.N. Security Council considers reinstating sanctions against Iran for its suspected nuclear activities, Elizabeth tries to stop Israel from taking matters into its own hands when it threatens military action against the Iranians. Also, Russell pressures Henry to woo his old Air Force buddy, Congressman Jeff Pearson (Michael Cerveris), to support President Dalton in the House’s election vote, and Stevie asks Russell for a recommendation to Harvard Law School.

 

Promo pictures

[CooperTV]

[MerBearHou]

I have never gotten a particularly bright vibe from Stevie -- if anything she seems ditzy to me.  She is passionate about her projects, yes, but a potentially brilliant law student, no -- so the Harvard Law School story just makes me shake my head.

We've been anticipating this about Russell for months.  

The airplane strike by the rebels in the countryside was very stirring.  

[secnarf]

I think it actually did the episode a disservice, releasing ahead of time that Russell would have a MI in this episode. I spent the whole episode just waiting for him to drop, especially in any scene with Stevie. They've been telegraphing it for a while, but IMO it would have been better for it to happen without any more warning than we've already had. There's really no reason why Russell should have an MI in this episode compared to last episode or next week's episode, and I think pre-specifying that it would be in this episode took something away from the storyline.

And I wasn't one who minded being told ahead of time, heaven knows I love my spoilers, but I don't think it helped the story at all. I was just wondering if Russell would drop before or after he managed to give Stevie her letter.

[Dowel Jones]

Russell:  "I haven't met a McCord who hasn't risen to the challenge."

Me:  You haven't met Jason, eh?

Ah, the old, ripped from the headlines, hot mic topic.  Of course, to be accurate, his followers should just blank it out of their consciousness and vote for him anyway.

I'm not sure what killing the three scientists would accomplish for anyone.  I thought they were detained before they had acquired any nuclear information.  Making it seem like an Israeli-sponsored deal might be enough to push the Iranian government to actually pursue nuclear weapons, but that doesn't happen overnight.  The lag time would be too long to be of use to the breakaway faction within the government, and a war with Israel is not the same as a war with Iraq.  It was cool watching Bess put her CIA training to work, assisting the Russians in their interrogation.

Dalton just looks like he is thinking "Somebody remind me why I want to be President again."

The McCord household must be on a different wavelength.  If I had ever even dreamed of making a wisecrack about my father having a hangover, let's just say that Russel's heart attack would have been the desirable option.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Dowel Jones

[Bobbin]

Didn't President Bartlett's CoS also have a heart attack?

Stephanie hardly seems driven enough to be a Harvard law student. There is a reason why do-gooder attorneys don't have Harvard degrees.

[bros402]

42 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

I'm not sure what killing the three scientists would accomplish for anyone.  I thought they were detained before they had acquired any nuclear information.  Making it seem like an Israeli-sponsored deal might be enough to push the Iranian government to actually pursue nuclear weapons, but that doesn't happen overnight.  The lag time would be too long to be of use to the breakaway faction within the government, and a war with Israel is not the same as a war with Iraq.  It was cool watching Bess put her CIA training to work, assisting the Russians in their interrogation.

Israel doesn't like Iran having any nuclear information - Mossad may or may not be responsible for multiple assassinations of nuclear scientists.

I didn't know Russel was going to have a heart attack, but from the second he was on screen, I was like "Bet he's going to have a heart attack this episode, he's acting off."

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, bros402 said:

Israel doesn't like Iran having any nuclear information - Mossad may or may not be responsible for multiple assassinations of nuclear scientists....

The black and white checkered/chevron scarves indicate they were Palestinian, no?

 

4 hours ago, bros402 said:

...I didn't know Russel was going to have a heart attack, but from the second he was on screen, I was like "Bet he's going to have a heart attack this episode, he's acting off."

I found Zeljko Ivanek's acting like he was about to have a medical event to be perfectly subtle, which was a nice change for on screen channeling of that sort of thing, which is usually heavy handed to the point of making the audience annoyed that the actor and director think the viewers are stupid — although more likely when impending heart attacks are channeled like tomorrow's front page news appearing a week early, the director and/or actor just think the audience is distracted.

[Netfoot]

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

Mossad may or may not be responsible for multiple assassinations of nuclear scientists.

They might "Gerald Bull" them.

(Bull and my dad were friends, back when HARP was in full swing.)

[kwnyc]

The thing that I got out of the ending with the missile attack was that all of the nations that had skin in the game manged to suck it up and act like adults to come to a place where they could avert military action, THEN the wild card of a terrorist attack threw it all away. Since this is Madam Secretary, I'm sure they'll pull some kind of rabbit out of a hat, but it was also a hard real world reminder that shit like this can, and does, happen and totally changes the world.

In other plotlines, I have no idea why Congressman Michael Cerveris (one of the most reliable guest stars you can find in NYC-shot series) changed his mind after his drunken blowout with Henry. I wonder if there's another shoe to drop there. And that whole "you FORCED me to go out and get drunk" was kind of out of nowhere, and not something I can ever really see straight arrow Henry doing. 

And a small thing: they were completely in character as parents when the kids wanted to know what was up with Henry. Bess: "he's tired." Henry: "I'm hungover."

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, kwnyc said:

And that whole "you FORCED me to go out and get drunk" was kind of out of nowhere, and not something I can ever really see straight arrow Henry doing. 

 

Henry actually said "You didn't tell me about the test until 1:30AM, and after that I urged you repeatedly to go home!  But oh, no!  You wouldn't!"  Which I think legitimately absolves Henry of the fallout in this case.

[CheshireCat]

12 hours ago, secnarf said:

There's really no reason why Russell should have an MI in this episode compared to last episode or next week's episode, and I think pre-specifying that it would be in this episode took something away from the storyline.

Maybe there is because they're going on hiatus after next week?

But I'd really hate to be a member of the Dalton administration - Sec of State got killed, National Security Advisor's wife has health issues so he retires, replacement is a little weasel, Attorney General gets replaced without a word, too (I guess it was an issue of actor availability but still, in the Madam Secretary universe she got replaced), Director of CIA planned a coup, new director is imcompetent and is forced to resign - in other words he gets fired, VP has health issues and is unfit to serve a second term and now Russell. I'm not sure I'd want Dalton to serve a second term with that record ;-) 

 

10 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

  It was cool watching Bess put her CIA training to work, assisting the Russians in their interrogation.

I love it when they remember where she's coming from. That's part of what I loved about S1 because they let her go back to her training more so than in S2. But I think it's good writing when they remember a character's background and use that. I also feel that it gives the character more depth.

 

10 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

The McCord household must be on a different wavelength.  If I had ever even dreamed of making a wisecrack about my father having a hangover, let's just say that Russel's heart attack would have been the desirable option.

It could totally have happened in my family, too.

[MaryHedwig]

Quote

The black and white checkered/chevron scarves indicate they were Palestinian, no?

I wondered the same thing with those scarves. But my closed captioning said they were speaking Hebrew to each other. I don't know if they are a reliable source on those kind of things or not.

Quote

I found Zeljko Ivanek's acting like he was about to have a medical event to be perfectly subtle

I did too...so much so that I wondered if the actor himself was ill and trying to cover it up with good acting.

Edited December 12, 2016 by MaryHedwig

[Alex]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The black and white checkered/chevron scarves indicate they were Palestinian, no?

 

49 minutes ago, MaryHedwig said:

I wondered the same thing with those scarves. But my closed captioning said they were speaking Hebrew to each other. I don't know if they are a reliable source on those kind of things or not.

Actually, according to Wikipedia and other sources, the black and white keffiyeh doesn't belong to Palestinians only, it's also worn in Yemen (and it's originally from Iraq).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keffiyeh

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-black-and-white-keffiyeh-always-a-show-of-solidarity-with-the-Palestinians-or-is-it-sometimes-just-a-non-political-fashion-choice

I was wondering what language they were speaking, so thank you closed captioning. This adhere to the idea Dalton had.

[Calamity Jane]

14 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Didn't President Bartlett's CoS also have a heart attack?

 

He did, at Camp David, out in the woods by himself.  Then in a later season, the actor died so the character did, too, and CJ became Chief of Staff. 

[hoosier80]

I'm wondering if we don't see more of the Congressman.  For him just to flip flop didn't make a lot of sense, but I guess it can go that way.  I just think there's more to come with that somehow??  The congressman did seem like he was a broken man, and he got validation he'd been wanting in that 'you were a great pilot' or whatever was said in that apology.  

I don't watch on a regular basis, but I was like oh he's going to collapse.  It wasn't that surprising at least to me.

[VinceW]

On 12/12/2016 at 2:48 AM, bros402 said:

Israel doesn't like Iran having any nuclear information - Mossad may or may not be responsible for multiple assassinations of nuclear scientists.

The Israeli military are configured to attack any air threat from the East before it reaches within ten miles of the Jordan Valley in order that Jerusalem escapes any damage.  I doubt it was Mossad that took down that plane with the nuclear scientists, but rather if the Israel government felt the nuclear threat was genuine, they would attack Iran without US consideration which is what the Israeli Ambassador told Elizabeth during their meeting early in the episode. It will be interesting to see how the writers handle the conflict resolution in the next episode from the Israeli perspective in order to keep the story somewhat realistic.  The scene with Elizabeth driving the interrogation of the scientists was by far the best part of the episode.  

Edited December 14, 2016 by VinceW

[dungeonwriter]

Yes, they were speaking actual Hebrew (I could understand what they were saying) and the keffiyahs are likely fitting into the territory. Keffiyahs are worn in the Middle East, I'd put money on them being part of an elite force like Sayeret Matkal (http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2001/12/israeli-counterterrorism-200112) 

[bros402]

15 hours ago, kwnyc said:

The thing that I got out of the ending with the missile attack was that all of the nations that had skin in the game manged to suck it up and act like adults to come to a place where they could avert military action, THEN the wild card of a terrorist attack threw it all away. Since this is Madam Secretary, I'm sure they'll pull some kind of rabbit out of a hat, but it was also a hard real world reminder that shit like this can, and does, happen and totally changes the world.

In other plotlines, I have no idea why Congressman Michael Cerveris (one of the most reliable guest stars you can find in NYC-shot series) changed his mind after his drunken blowout with Henry. I wonder if there's another shoe to drop there. And that whole "you FORCED me to go out and get drunk" was kind of out of nowhere, and not something I can ever really see straight arrow Henry doing. 

And a small thing: they were completely in character as parents when the kids wanted to know what was up with Henry. Bess: "he's tired." Henry: "I'm hungover."

I did not recognize Michael Cerveris since he was not completely bald and hairless.

[buckboard]

11 hours ago, dungeonwriter said:

Yes, they were speaking actual Hebrew (I could understand what they were saying) 

What were they saying?

[betsyboo]

For the eleventy millionth time I will state again how much I love the relationship between Bess and Henry. LOVE IT.

Nadine: "Are you done?" <derision implied>

Daisy! Catch up! Are you new?!?! OF COURSE SHE ORCHESTRATED IT.

I liked that Stevie said that her father turned off his phone in class: "AGNES! (or whatever name it was) Why don't you know that????!"

I admit to momentarily FREAKING that Russell was hitting on Stevie when he rolled his chair over. I had to blink twice to be sure he was tapping his finger on the chair and not caressing her sleeve. I liked what he said to her. Truth.

So have Stevie and the beau broken up? Cambridge, MA, is *not* Cambridge, UK.

<broadway nerd alert> They couldn't have had Michael Cerveris break into a little ditty whilst drunk in the bar? And then Blake and Nadine (and ok, Daisy) wander in to harmonize?? COME ON.

I liked that Bess just randomly stopped for a street dog. HA!

[dungeonwriter]

8 hours ago, buckboard said:

What were they saying?

Some was translated. 

Starting at Minute 37:47 

"How much time?"

"Less than a minute."

"Clear" (not translated) 

"I'm on target" (doubt they'd use such formal language, but okay)

"Move, move, move, move" (not translated)  was all I could make out. 

[MaryHedwig]

Quote

I admit to momentarily FREAKING that Russell was hitting on Stevie when he rolled his chair over. I had to blink twice to be sure he was tapping his finger on the chair and not caressing her sleeve. I liked what he said to her. Truth.

So was I. But, since nothing happened, I think it was to show how Russell views Bess' children like family. It helped me not freak out to see that Stevie was not freaked out. Still...my HR would have advised him to never roll that close to a guest again, especially a young attractive one.
 

Quote

So have Stevie and the beau broken up? Cambridge, MA, is *not* Cambridge, UK.

 

I guess Mr. MH was right on this one, that boring bus ride they took was a relationship-ender. That's why it looked so much like the bus ride in the last scene of The Graduate.

[Netfoot]

6 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Still...my HR would have advised him to never roll that close to a guest again, especially a young attractive one.

Perhaps they will fall in love!

[VinceW]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 7:56 AM, Netfoot said:

Perhaps they will fall in love!

OR

Spoiler

"......and Stevie has an interesting first day as Russell's new intern, on MADAM SECRETARY, Sunday, Jan. 8."  - The FutonCritic

Edited December 17, 2016 by VinceW

[VinceW]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 11:33 PM, secnarf said:

I think it actually did the episode a disservice, releasing ahead of time that Russell would have a MI in this episode. I spent the whole episode just waiting for him to drop, especially in any scene with Stevie. They've been telegraphing it for a while, but IMO it would have been better for it to happen without any more warning than we've already had. There's really no reason why Russell should have an MI in this episode compared to last episode or next week's episode, and I think pre-specifying that it would be in this episode took something away from the storyline.

And I wasn't one who minded being told ahead of time, heaven knows I love my spoilers, but I don't think it helped the story at all. I was just wondering if Russell would drop before or after he managed to give Stevie her letter.

Spoiler

The fact that the writers took so long to develop the Russell illness makes me wonder if he will now become a recurring character because of a real health issue given the new Stevie work connection forthcoming after the hiatus.  I presume that him showing any physical changes on the show could be a result of him being clued in on the event in advance and presenting subtle clues for it.  I do, however, hope the character is OK, and he'll be sticking around for a while.

[shapeshifter]

On December 13, 2016 at 1:32 PM, betsyboo said:

...I admit to momentarily FREAKING that Russell was hitting on Stevie when he rolled his chair over. I had to blink twice to be sure he was tapping his finger on the chair and not caressing her sleeve. I liked what he said to her. Truth....

I just saw it as another reveal of his physical weakness — that he was too fraile to stand and drag the chair over.

[VinceW]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I just saw it as another reveal of his physical weakness — that he was too fraile to stand and drag the chair over.

His fall to the floor looks worrisome as well, but the viewers might be getting played by the writers after all this time. If the plan is to have him come back to work as CoS even part-time, that Dalton would agree to that makes no sense even if there is an election. A heart doctor would not let his patient return to work that quickly in that kind of stressful job without some kind of significant time jump which is why a recurring character role looks possible. IMHO

Edited December 18, 2016 by VinceW

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, VinceW said:

His fall to the floor looks worrisome as well, but the viewers might be getting played by the writers after all this time. If the plan is to have him come back to work as CoS even part-time, that Dalton would agree to that makes no sense even if there is an election. A heart doctor would not let his patient return to work that quickly in that kind of stressful job without some kind of significant time jump which is why a recurring character role looks possible. IMHO

He already sat out a few episodes last season (two or three) and he sat out at least one this season, too, right? So, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.

Edited December 18, 2016 by CheshireCat

[Autistic Queer]

Does Zeljko Ivanek have known health problems? 

The CoS having a heart attack is fairly likely. I remember watching a program called The President's Gatekeepers, which was about Chief's of Staff from LBJ onwards. Dick Cheney said he had a heart attack while he was still in his 30s. 

[VinceW]

8 hours ago, MsJayTee said:

Does Zeljko Ivanek have known health problems? 

The CoS having a heart attack is fairly likely. I remember watching a program called The President's Gatekeepers, which was about Chief's of Staff from LBJ onwards. Dick Cheney said he had a heart attack while he was still in his 30s. 

Spoiler

Health rumors in 2010 about cancer.  Again in 2014, but his PR group denied any issues. If the writers are not careful, the show will become about his health.  Good point about Cheney, but that parallel would be giving the show creator (Barbara Hall) too much credit. IMO.

Edited December 18, 2016 by VinceW

[CheshireCat]

On ‎11‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 11:33 PM, secnarf said:

There's really no reason why Russell should have an MI in this episode compared to last episode or next week's episode,

Apparently, there was a reason. Hall explains it here.

Spoiler

 https://tvline.com/2016/12/18/madam-secretary-recap-season-3-episode-10-dalton-wins-election-the-race/

 I put the link in spoilers because the URL contains a spoiler from the fall finale. Furthermore does the linked article contain spoilers for the fall finale and some very, very mild spoilers about what is to come.

 

9 hours ago, VinceW said:

  Hide contents

Health rumors in 2010 about cancer.  Again in 2014, but his PR group denied any issues. If the writers are not careful, the show will become about his health.  Good point about Cheney, but that parallel would be giving the show creator (Barbara Hall) too much credit. IMO.

Just curious - why do you think it would give her too much credit?

Edited December 19, 2016 by CheshireCat

[secnarf]

On 2016-12-12 at 0:35 PM, CheshireCat said:

Maybe there is because they're going on hiatus after next week?

And why does that mean that he had to have an MI in this episode, rather than the week before or during the fall finale?

10 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Apparently, there was a reason. Hall explains it here.

  Hide contents

 https://tvline.com/2016/12/18/madam-secretary-recap-season-3-episode-10-dalton-wins-election-the-race/

 I put the link in spoilers because the URL contains a spoiler from the fall finale. Furthermore does the linked article contain spoilers for the fall finale and some very, very mild spoilers about what is to come

I don't think Hall at any point explained why it HAD to be in this episode. Seeing how the fall finale played out, I can see why not in the finale - there would be way too much happening in the finale then - but that's beside the point, since it's retrospective. My original point was that watching this episode initially, there was nothing to hint that THAT would be the episode in which Russell finally has the MI (which we knew would come at some point), but then the promos ruined that.

[CheshireCat]

Another episode I loved! Matt's rant at the beginning - I so hear you. He was right but I guess, that's why politics is never just black and white.

Did anyone else notice that Henry's wearing the same thing at the beginning of the episode that he was wearing in the previous one?! It kind of threw me off. And Noodle just walking into her mother's bedroom taking her clothes... not sure if I had been cool with that in Bess' place.

I thought Russell looked a bit ridiculous in his golf outfit but okay. And I really, really liked Henry's exchange with Russell. He's so unwilling to take an crap from Russell, good for him! And the moral compass, not a disease thing was cool, too. And speaking of moral compass - I liked Russell's comment to Stevie that you have to be prepared to do bad in order to do good. Again, I think, a reference that not everything's just black and white, and it's also a little bit of a reference to S1 and Stevie's struggle with her mom's actions in Iraq. Though she had already come to terms with it. Still, I felt that it sort of underlined that again.

I liked Nadine's non-verbal reaction to Walter laying it on a bit thick and then Jay sort of shoving him into the office. And Nadine's comment that Bess had other appointments, liked that, too.

I thought the actor who plays Walter did a really good Job being giddy in his own way when Jay and Walter presented Bess with the News that there were signs that the Iranian leader probably hadn't ordered to stop the inspectors and I laughed out loud at Nadine's reaction over the lack of reaction when she informed them that the French would not veto the sanctions. They really have a fantastic cast!

I liked the interrogation and that Bess led it; I'm over the moon with all the tie-ins of former seasons and character backgrounds so far. Poor Jay, being the only one who didn't understand a word.

Nice call-back to S1 and the meeting with the first Iranian foreign minister. But why did they meet in the consulate in NY and not the embassy in DC? (And what happened to the foreign minister who was present for the peace treaty signing?)

I loved how they handled Henry being hungover and Bess being sympathetic and wanting to cover it up.

Bess tricking Evans was really satisfying! Not sure how his supporters would rally around him after that though but okay. They're politicians so who knows.

Nice scene between Bess and Dalton outside the oval office! And I really admire Russell's secretary! She really must know him well to not take his outbursts personally.

Edited May 8, 2017 by CheshireCat