OK...What's Next?

[catrox14]

Honestly, I'm going with Comrade Trump. Dude is either complicit or was played hard.  I'm even willing to say that Melania was a plant from the get go. 

[slf]

I wonder if Russia reached out to Trump after he announced his run or before. I doubt this plan is more than two years old. Seems more believable they offered to do some tweaking on his behalf in exchange for favors after he was in the WH.

Assuming that Russia was working with Trump.

[Duke Silver]

I'm struck by the lack of a denial here.  This is....weird, which makes it normal, I guess.  Don't know how to articulate it, LOL.  I'm just lacking the words.  I'm worried about sounding as crazy as General Flynn & the other Alex Jones/InfoWars nutjobs....

[Padma]

1 minute ago, Duke Silver said:

I'm struck by the lack of a denial here.  This is....weird, which makes it normal, I guess.  Don't know how to articulate it, LOL.  I'm just lacking the words.  I'm worried about sounding as crazy as General Flynn & the other Alex Jones/InfoWars nutjobs....

This is a weird response. Deflects, distracts, brags and repeats the slogan of the brainwashed.

But it doesn't deny.  Doesn't express outrage over being essentially accused of being a collaborator.

Maybe they're mulling their response because they aren't sure what the WH has on them -- or will have in the coming weeks.

The lack of denial and outrage, to me, indicates guilt and fear of discovery.

[aradia22]

Quote

This sounds like the beginnings of a witch hunt for any scientist who supported Obama's climate policies and who believes in global warming.

So... like, most scientists? 

Those of us who didn't need to be educated on the difference between mainland China and Taiwan know a little something about this. We won't back down when they come for the intellectuals and the education system. We won't be bullied into ignorance. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Education

[Duke Silver]

******Russia Hacked Republican Committee, U.S. Concludes******

Quote

They based that conclusion, in part, on another finding — which they say was also reached with high confidence — that the Russians hacked the Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever information they gleaned from the Republican networks.

[AntiBeeSpray]

5 minutes ago, Padma said:

This is a weird response. Deflects, distracts, brags and repeats the slogan of the brainwashed.

But it doesn't deny.  Doesn't express outrage over being essentially accused of being a collaborator.

Maybe they're mulling their response because they aren't sure what the WH has on them -- or will have in the coming weeks.

The lack of denial and outrage, to me, indicates guilt and fear of discovery.

Good point. I'm not surprised on it either, but it is very odd otherwise. It could very well be. Like the old kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

[galaxygirl76]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

I'm not giving up hope that something unprecedented can happen before Inauguration Day. Look at this entire year. Why couldn't it?

I hope I'm online to watch live the twitter meltdown Orangina will have. 

[Duke Silver]

Maybe I'm just not following the right people on Twitter, but I'm amazed at the lack of tweets about this.

[slf]

24 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

Maybe I'm just not following the right people on Twitter, but I'm amazed at the lack of tweets about this.

Well, it's a Friday night so... I imagine tomorrow will be a shitshow on Twitter and Facebook.

[AntiBeeSpray]

13 minutes ago, slf said:

Well, it's a Friday night so... I imagine tomorrow will be a shitshow on Twitter and Facebook.

Oh shit. Just remembered something, I remember hearing that Friday's are days to dump news.

Wonder if it'll be for good or ill, via the CIA and the President. 

[Cupid Stunt]

From The Guardian -- First Dog on the Moon

Brenda the Civil Disobedience Penguin's 10-point plan to drain the swamp!

Had enough of corruption? Of government pumping a huge pipeline of money right into the gaping wazoo of corporate interests? Here’s Brenda’s plan to fix it!

[Lantern7]

Brenda is no Sparky. Kinda hate myself for missing out on seeing Tom Tomorrow at NYCC and showing him this. His go-to comparison for YKW is Hulk.

[Duke Silver]

Geesh...I remain extremely pessimistic about political discourse in this country.  How in the fuck are we supposed to have common ground when we can't even agree on what "facts" are?  It's unbelievable.  I've encountered people who literally won't believe anything reported by CNN, NYT, WAPO, etc.....and are even "starting to feel" (feel being the operative word) that even Fox News is suffering from liberal bias!!!!!!  It's all about feelings & faith; scientific fact is seen as it's own kind of bias...  Da fuq??

These charts showing what Republican voters believe about the 2016 election are depressing — and telling

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

 I've encountered people who literally won't believe anything reported by CNN, NYT, WAPO, etc.....and are even "starting to feel" (feel being the operative word) that even Fox News is suffering from liberal bias!!!!!!  It's all about feelings & faith; scientific fact is seen as it's own kind of bias...  Da fuq??

What's so fascinating about this is that it comes down to truth being the thing that feels like a lie. Fox news isn't developing a liberal bias, they just touch on reality more than these people want. Anytime a Fox reporter touches on truth, even if it's as a springboard for a conservative interpretation of that truth, if it's a truth they don't want to hear, it's a bias. We already saw this spinning out of control--people already left Fox behind for Alex Jones and the other conspiracy sites who didn't even pretend to be news anchors.

One wonders how far people will have to go to be considered unbiased at this point, since we're already accusing Hillary Clinton of running child sex rings out of pizza parlor basement that don't even exist. Unfortunately as long as not-quite-so gone Republicans see advantages to be gained from these people it seems they're willing to play up to them and fool themselves, I guess, that they're somehow in control. Until congress is willing to give that crap up and make a coalition of politicians who may disagree on things but are based in reality and are sick of having to humor these crackpots, it'll just continue.

[aradia22]

Quote

Let's do it again! For the third time this year, we're giving away a trip to Hamilton. First we did New York. Then we did Chicago. Now I guess we could do the upcoming San Francisco show, but here's another idea... let's do all three!

Yep, if you win, we'll fly you and a friend to all three cities next year to see all three productions AND you'll get backstage meet-ups with the cast.

All it takes to win is a $10 donation to Planned Parenthood Federation of America. My mother, Dr. Luz Towns-Miranda Ph.D., is on the national board of directors of Planned Parenthood Action Fund, the not-for-profit advocacy and nonpartisan political arm of Planned Parenthood Federation of America and I'm urging you to make this critical donation and to go to PlannedParenthood.org to learn more about the work they're doing.

If you can donate more, we'll give you extra entries to win and some pretty cool rewards - t-shirts, hoodies, or a signed CD of The Hamilton Mixtape! (We just released it last week!)

I love this man. http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/STAGE-TUBE-Lin-Manuel-Miranda-Offering-Chance-to-Be-in-the-Room-at-HAMILTON-in-Three-Cities-20161209

[Padma]

What's weirdest about the Trump response over Russia trying to throw the election to him, is the blandness of it. "Get over it! Time to move on now! Making America Great Again!"

A normal response would be surprise.  Then anger because why would you want your country's enemy to be doing illegal and unethical things to throw an election for you! You could win it on your own, without any dirty tricks from Putin!

Then maybe embarrassment--because you didn't ask for or want--or need--foreign help to win.  Your message would win voters without Putin!  You would want to reassure voters that you had no knowledge of Russian intervention--didn't ask for it, didn't know about it, and didn't want it.  If you -had- known, you would have rejected it because that's not how our democracy works. Here, candidates campaign honestly and win or lose on their own merits--as it should be--not from hacks and released email to make one opponent look bad and favor the other.

That's a bunch of things I think Trump would have said in his statement (which wouldn't be written, it would be spoken).  That is, that's what he would have said imo if he had no knowledge that Russia was doing this for him and was not complicit in it all along.

His answer, on the other hand, "let's move on! Nothing to see here!" makes me think (1) this is no surprise to him at all; (2) that he knew Russia was trying to smear Clinton with the email release (and was probably why he made such a big deal about it; and (3) may have actually coordinated it with them.

I don't have much optimism but I hope he gets caught. This is far, far worse than Nixon authorizing the FBI to break into Democratic headquarters and at the Watergate Hotel and steal some files.

[Advance35]

 Follow 

Colleen‏@KnudsenColleen

@davebernstein @bannerite Call DOJ 202-353-1555 about Russian interference with election results. Calls are collected & taken seriously.

I don't know for sure if anything will come of it but I am going to call.  This latest news is just beyond the pale.   We've left outrageous behind about 25 miles ago.   SOMETHING needs to be done.  I don't know what but something.

[shok]

16 hours ago, izabella said:

I wish Obama had asked for that immediately after the election...why wait a month?  Maybe the information could have broken in time to impact the EC vote.  Maybe not, since he doesn't even want to make the findings public.

Obama was having meetings with all sorts of people about this long before the meeting and wanted it made public and wanted the congressional and senate intelligence committees to investigate it but as usual, the Republicans obstructed him all the way.

Quote

And I wish the media had made it a really BIG story during the election that we KNEW Russia was hacking in an effort to influence election outcome and kept hammering it home instead of getting distracted reporting on Trump's Daily Lies...Squirrel!  Just like I wish the media was making Trump's conflicts of interest a huge daily story, pointing out Trump's Daily Violation and how they impact our foreign and domestic policy.  

The media DID make the hacking a big story - they just reported it ass backwards. Every day they waited for the titillating release from Wikileaks of John Podesta's emails and hired extra people to scour through them searching for any little thing that they could find to make a scandal of about Clinton, and then they reported Hillary's "scandal" endlessly all day and discussed it with their panels 24/7. Anytime a Dem tried to chastise them for using stolen material the media said 'oh we know it's all kind of fishy but it's NEWS about Hillary and we have to report it!'

Even now, a month later, when the media is called out for not having done their job before the election, they make excuses and absolve themselves. I don't expect them to make a big deal out of this new reporting from WaPo because then they'd have to accept responsibility for being a big part of the whole Russian exercise in screwing with the election. If they had had any integrity, they wouldn't have made such a big deal of Hillary's emails because they couldn't professionally source them as they're supposed to with the 'news' they report.

[navelgazer]

I hope like hell that this whole "Russia hacked the 2016 election" is finally the story that makes a lie out of "Its OK If You're A Republican" or IOKIYAR and Hair Gropenfuhrer is prevented from benefiting from treason and/or the EC does the right thing.    

[NewDigs]

NYTimes take on The Hack.

I could barely sleep last night worrying about what this country is becoming. I don't know whether to feel defeated or hopeful or just plain sick to my stomach.

Agree with @AntiBeeSpray that Friday night is typically news dump-night but this has to have legs. Doesn't it? Please????

And that Tubby-response? Sounds right out of the politburo 

[Duke Silver]

On 12/10/2016 at 1:23 AM, Padma said:

What's weirdest about the Trump response over Russia trying to throw the election to him, is the blandness of it. "Get over it! Time to move on now! Making America Great Again!"

I'm still mulling over this, but here are my initial observations/rebuttals to the Transition's press release:

-threw the intelligence community under the bus in favor of the Russian government, AGAIN. 
-quite likely was none of the "same people" who said that Saddam had WMDs
-by electoral vote percentage, trump had the 46th-largest electoral vote victory out of 58 elections; would his supporters please STFU about mandates & landslide victories, please?
-we had better not "move on," but rather should figure, exactly, out how and why the Russia government tried to install Trump in the white house.

Some more thoughts about this (perhaps redundant, but whatever):

-Will this change the outcome of the election? No.
-Will this cost the GOP politically? Maybe, though that would require introspection by people who vote for them, so I'm not holding my breath.
-Maybe we'll get hearings out of this. The GOP hacks are already out screaming partisanship; siding with Russia over our own intelligence services, which makes me feel like we're in Bizarro World--the party that wraps itself in the ol' Red White & Blue, the party of Reagan, is siding w/ the fucking Russians!!!!

[NewDigs]

I actually heard some sewergate remark that it's best for Dems to not call out the Repugs for racism because there were so many crossover Dem-votes for Trump that they are actually calling themselves racist too. And he warned that "we better not go there". (mini-paraphrase)

[AntiBeeSpray]

3 hours ago, NewDigs said:

NYTimes take on The Hack.

I could barely sleep last night worrying about what this country is becoming. I don't know whether to feel defeated or hopeful or just plain sick to my stomach.

Agree with @AntiBeeSpray that Friday night is typically news dump-night but this has to have legs. Doesn't it? Please????

And that Tubby-response? Sounds right out of the politburo 

Yea here's to hoping. But I'm wondering if they might have done this to try to curb Republican backlash.

[galaxygirl76]

I don't understand anyone believing this landslide bullshit. I grew up in freaking Europe and I knew about the Reagan '84 election.  That was a landslide. This is barely a win (if at all...) 

[Duke Silver]

Schumer calls for full investigation by Congress of Russian interference in U.S. elections

[Shannon L.]

In case anyone is interested:

Petition congress to investigate Mitch McConnell for treason for not taking action against Russia for election tampering

[Padma]

Reid is saying this morning (Sat) that the FBI knew about Russia's involvement on Trump's behalf and Comey refused to make it public. He's saying Comey should resign.

Whatever Democrats say or do, I'm glad if they'll just keep this in the news and not let it be #100 of Tubby-related controversies that make news for a day or two and then are forgotten.  

[possibilities]

Trump doesn't care who allies with him. Anyone who allies with him is automatically good-- the KKK, Putin, whoever. He cares only about having his ego pumped, there is no reflection or logic involved. He said it very clearly during the campaign, that he is not going to repudiate anyone who praises him. He also specifically asked the Russians to hack the Clinton email. He's not hiding any of it. Absolutely all the current news was widely reported before the election, including his conflicts of interest, general approach to life and governance and policy, his personality, shameless lying, no conscience, etc. He's openly bragged about it all-- not just admitted to it, but called it smart and obvious. The people who either buy into it or have decided to exploit it via the coat tail effect, are also doing so in the open. At some point we have to accept that the situation is exactly what it is, from "I could shoot someone on the street and people would still vote for me" to "Who am I to reject an endorsement [from anyone, including the KKK]?" to "Putin is a great leader" to "I know more than the generals [and thus will not attend security briefings and will get my information from whatever source I find convenient and self-confirming for my ego]."

I don't know what to do about it, but being shocked and outraged is not making any difference, and kind of makes us seem like we haven't been paying attention. He feeds on it, and so do his constituents.

[Padma]

I think we have to keep that sense of shock that a President of the United States is going to be like this. And outraged, not numb or complacent.  No matter how fatiguing it gets, Tubby shouldn't ever get the chance to brand himself as "the new normal" (same way we can't let him rebrand reality as "post-factual"). 

Keith Olbermann and Charles Blow have the right idea imo: Resist.  Including resisting Tubby's propaganda efforts every time there's a new scandal or controversy "Eh! It's just Trump! Nothing new to see here!") We have to stay shocked and outraged, imo, even if it has to last 4 years.

[Duke Silver]

I'm so damn naive....  I continue to be shocked by how members of the GOP react to this.  If Dems reacted like this, they'd be dragged through the mud by the right wing Christian outlets.  I find these reactions treasonous:

https://twitter.com/JohnCornyn/status/807597834346385408

[Padma]

It reeks of coverup.  What other explanation is there for Republican officials to say it's perfectly okay for Russia--still, essentially, our #1 enemy nation--to hack into U.S. citizens' computers and use the information to successfully sabotage one candidate over another in our presidential election?

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Padma said:

It reeks of coverup.  What other explanation is there for Republican officials to say it's perfectly okay for Russia--still, essentially, our #1 enemy nation--to hack into U.S. citizens' computers and use the information to successfully sabotage one candidate over another in our presidential election?

I think part of the usefulness of the crazy constant conspiracy stuff is that to many voters, they really do believe that this has just been going on for years and now it's going to work "for them." They've never really lived in a country like the one they pretend they live in where they're oppressed or under attack or have 50% unemployment. Anything any politicians say about having any higher ideal, especially if they're a Democrat, is false. So they feel smart and already justified in supporting this kind of thing. Remember they already think that the system is rigged--that's been proved by the fact that people have been elected that they themselves have not voted for, and "real Americans" are the only votes that count. So if you've spent 8 years pouncing on any conspiracy about HRC and Obama as proof that he was totally running the country for ISIS and Russia already, you're just being super smart and in the know about how these things work when you support Russia's hacking. It doesn't make you feel silly at all to have been manipulated by a foreign power to vote in their interests. You're certainly not going to do any soul-searching about how you were manipulated, like via your bigotry or whatever.

[AntiBeeSpray]

26 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

I'm so damn naive....  I continue to be shocked by how members of the GOP react to this.  If Dems reacted like this, they'd be dragged through the mud by the right wing Christian outlets.  I find these reactions treasonous:

https://twitter.com/JohnCornyn/status/807597834346385408

It makes no damn difference. Point is to have that attitude towards it is just lazy and arrogant in my opinion. Better to step up and try to stop/prevent it than to sit on one's hands.

My mom and I were talking about Gorbachev (former Russian president) and as bad as he was, he's an angel by comparison to Putin. Heck even he doesn't like what Putin has done in part.

Source: wikipedia.com

[Padma]

What was bad about Gorbachev?  He brought political reform to the Soviet Union and helped lead to the break up of it. He brought Reagan to the peace table and negotiated a disarmament treaty with him (would have given up everything if Reagan had only been able to agree not to militarize space with his "Star Wars" idea).

The world--and Russia in particular--owe Gorbachev a great deal, even though he doesn't get the respect he deserves in Putin's revived authoritarian state.

[stillshimpy]

Okay, I'm going to need help tracking this story down, because it is years in the past, but it has a huge bearing on the election fraud scandal, I think.  Or it could potentially could.  

It would have been within the last ten years and it was about a bust on a house that had hundreds of mailboxes in it.  Meaning that the physical address of the house -- and prepare for the vague, this is why I'm having  a hell of a time googling this bad boy up -- was being used as the address for multiple corporations, well into the hundreds.  Remember that ghastly time corporations were declared people so that Hobby Lobby would have a reason to judge, shame and interfere with the private lives of their female employees? "Wah!! You're using birth control, bad lady person!! Fill thy womb with the seed of man!! It's your biblical purpose!! Turns out we can't fire you for that, but you can't require our insurance to pay for it!  Because we're bad at math and don't realize that children cost a metric ton more! Also, we don't understand that the battle cry of the republic is not actually, 'shape up and be more like me!' Yours in-a-completely-appalled-by-the-hypocrisy, what'd-I say-about-judging?!? Christ."  

So anyway, the house was busted as the physical address for hundreds of corporations, and the people who had registered those corporations were traced back to lovely places like....jails.  In the former Eastern Block of the former Soviet Union.    At the time I tried to explain to my, incredibly bored, friends that this would potentially have a terrifying impact on our elections because of that asinine ruling about (misogynistic) hobbies of craft store employers.  

It's of interest because....lo and fucking behold.....yeah.   So if anyone with a better memory or a better gift for keyword phrasing remembers this or can figure out how to track down the case, I'd appreciate the help.  It was pretty obvious at the time that it was going to have some super scary implications for our elections but not a lot was made about the investigations afterward. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by stillshimpy

[ruby24]

Russia can also use its GOP info they stole to blackmail the Republicans into doing what they want. I can only imagine how bad the Republican emails are.

[Duke Silver]

6 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Russia can also use its GOP info they stole to blackmail the Republicans into doing what they want. I can only imagine how bad the Republican emails are.

Little Marco Rubio was, at least for a while, adamant about the GOP not crowing about the Wikileaks stuff coming from the DNC for this exact reason.

[AntiBeeSpray]

29 minutes ago, Padma said:

What was bad about Gorbachev?  He brought political reform to the Soviet Union and helped lead to the break up of it. He brought Reagan to the peace table and negotiated a disarmament treaty with him (would have given up everything if Reagan had only been able to agree not to militarize space with his "Star Wars" idea).

The world--and Russia in particular--owe Gorbachev a great deal, even though he doesn't get the respect he deserves in Putin's revived authoritarian state.

What he did later is a sign of how he's changed over time. Check out his history. There's usually more than one side to a person/story.

[ruby24]

Well, Putin's choice the CEO of Exxon will be our Secretary of State. Who else thinks Putin is handpicking some of these cabinet people?

Edited December 10, 2016 by ruby24

[AntiBeeSpray]

2 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Well, Putin's choice the CEO of Exxon will be our Secretary of State. Who else thinks Putin is handpicking some of these cabinet people?

No doubt on that one.

[Duke Silver]

‘I’m Prejudiced,’ He Said. Then We Kept Talking.

Quote

Although Garry didn’t vote for Donald J. Trump, he is the media’s image of a Trump voter: a rural, middle-aged white male from a working-class background. “We’re a troubled group right now,” he said to me when we met. “We’re not a growing part of the population, we’re diminishing. I think our culture is mixing real fast. Instead of the usual 20 years it takes to change society, it’s happening in five years. It feels like an overwhelming wave is rushing over us.”

[stormy]

And so the Third Reich marches on.

The flaacid prick's transition team has asked the Dept of Energy to compile a list of all employees and contractors who worked on climate change.

Request asks for the names of those who attended climate change meetings at the UN in the past five years and names of the Obama administration staffers who helped set a metric for calculating the social cost of carbon (how's this making you feel now Al Gore?). 

What next, kristallnact?

[Duke Silver]

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/807655836382334976

[Lantern7]

Lindsey is going to a hole for his opinions. And he's not going to get one iota of Southern hospitality. As for Chuck? I hope Amy goes into hiding, because she would be considered his closest relative by the Powers That (Would) Be. I hope Old Navy has hiding places for her.

I'm not expecting Republicans to "Be With Her." I'm not expecting them to march on Wall Street and beat up bankers with Bernie. I'm not expecting them to stand in front of tanks. But for God's sake, man the hell up. If the Orangina genie (like how Alec Baldwin says "China"?) can be forced back into the lamp, it should be done.

[possibilities]

I didn't mean we should be passive. Of course we should resist. But at a certain point, you have to realize who these people are, and start expecting them to be the way they are, so you can anticipate their actions and formulate a strategy for effective resistance, instead of continuing to be caught off guard and amazed by what new horribleness they've cooked up. That's all I was saying. When the energy expenditure goes into shock reactions, it means they're ahead of us and we're playing catch up. When you stop being shocked, and are aware before they make their next disgusting move, you're finally mobilized and not just being blown back on your heels because you thought they were better than they are.

It's like being blown away that the person who told you they were going to punch you in the face is now punching you in the face, and tomorrow you are shocked when they punch you in the gut. When you know the person is a puncher, you become able to work more effectively towards stopping it before it happens.

[AntiBeeSpray]

25 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/807655836382334976

And we have a winner.

[Padma]

Oh. I finally get what he was doing to Romney. I never for a minute thought he would choose him. It was, of course, just sop for a media narrative of him moving to be more centrist and presidential.

We knew better.  But I thought it was basically just a revenge move--a good dose of public humiliation as payback.

Now, however, with Tubby's appointment of the CEO of Exxon Mobile to be Secretary of State, I think there was another reason for so publicly "considering and rejecting" Mitt Romney.

After all, Romney was his biggest critic during the primaries--the only Republican politician-type who really laid out the case against him.  Now, making Romney swallow his pride and apply for SOS--then humiliate and reject him--when Tubby chooses someone else, it means they will always be able to spin against any future criticism from Romney, "Oh, he's just mad because he was passed over for SOS. He wanted to work for me and got turned down so now he's trying to get attention this way. We can't take him seriously."

[Duke Silver]

6 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

And we have a winner.

And we also get this, however:

https://twitter.com/ajjaffe/status/807671798749941760

[Lantern7]

Once again: didn't YKW imply that Mitt would've blown him for an endorsement in 2012? On the bright side, Giuliani might be out of the running for a post. "Rudy, have you ever thought of a third wife? Worked wonders for me!"