formerlyfreedom November 13, 2016 Share November 13, 2016 Quote Lenny shocks the world with his first address, in which he demands Catholics worldwide devote themselves body and soul to God no matter the consequences. Sister Mary and Cardinal Voiello struggle to control Lenny, who admits that his conservative religious views were caused due to his parents abandoning him to an Italian orphanage to continue a hedonistic lifestyle. Airing in the US on Monday, January 16, 2017. Link to comment
NutMeg November 16, 2016 Share November 16, 2016 I started watching Monday and, two episodes in, I'm getting very intrigued by the contradictions of the main character. I like episode 2 more than 1, but both had amazing intros (ep. 2 especially). Jude Law is vey good, Cécile de France is a nice addition this episode, and the Italian cast is excellent. There are a number of unusual characters that are more nuanced than typical, such as Sister Mary (played by Diane Keaton) and the secretary (?)/man who used to be in charge of all day to day business - I'm awfully bad with names (the main reason I remember "Sister Mary", beside it being simple to remember, is the mirror scene in this episode compared to episode 1. That got me, big time) My only problem is that I watched without subtitles, and my Italian is not good enough to understand the finer points of the dialogues in Italian (I got less than half of it, i.e. got the gist but not much more). I'll pace myself because I'm watching many other things this season but will definitely continue watching and would be happy to exchange views with other posters. 3 Link to comment
IWantCandy71 January 17, 2017 Share January 17, 2017 Just caught last half of episode one and most of two, on HBO. James Cromwell(so underrated), Jude Law and Diane Keaton all great performances so far. 1 Link to comment
Primetimer January 17, 2017 Share January 17, 2017 Two very different shows feature scenes in which human characters memorably meet furry mammals. Which did it better? View the full article Link to comment
Muffyn January 17, 2017 Share January 17, 2017 I'm calling it now - Sister Mary and James Cromwell's character are Lenny's parents. Ah, the mysteries of Venice! 2 Link to comment
WatchrTina January 17, 2017 Share January 17, 2017 (edited) Okay so the Pope-is-a-dick theme continues with the firing of a (presumably) celibate priest due to his sexual orientation. Though I presume the young pope didn't really care about that and just wanted to free up the position for his former mentor, which is even more of a dick move. (I did love that James Cromwell's character, Cardinal Spencer, was having none of it and told "Lenny" where to get off.) And that whole balcony speech was a big thumb-in-the-eye to me, the agnostic, wary-of-organized-religion, lapsed Catholic so yeah -- the Pope is a dick . . . and apparently a kangaroo whisperer. Did anyone catch what Sister Mary's t-shirt said? It was something about a virgin but I never got it all. So . . . do we think the young boy in the wheelchair that Sister Mary saw Cardinal Voiello visit is his illegitimate son? Quote I'm calling it now - Sister Mary and James Cromwell's character are Lenny's parents I thought it was explicitly said in the first episode that Sister Mary was his mother. He called her "Ma" when he arrived at the orphanage and she said, no, call me "Sister Mary." I assumed she'd abandoned him to join the convent -- leaving him with his father who later died (and all he had to remember him by was his broken pipe.) But then in this episode she did exactly the opposite with that other priest -- her other "favorite" -- telling him "Call me Ma". So now I'm confused. But I don't think Cardinal Spencer is Lenny's father -- just his father-figure / mentor. Edited January 18, 2017 by WatchrTina 1 Link to comment
jwc January 17, 2017 Share January 17, 2017 (edited) What is with the 'you don't deserve me' during the speech and Sister Mary implying something mysterious about him? Also, Lenny being super-conservative, like he can see through fakes in the Church. Ok, so he dismisses the Prelate, but keeps Cardinal Voieello? VIorello who goes to spend time with a special needs juvenile (although Sister Mary keeping tabs on him, with the cinematographic misdirection with the attractive lady following him in). Is there something telling in his choice of the new Directory or the Museum (dedicated and called) after the last guy was a backstabbing douche? It's intriguing. Are they making it out that Lenny is some sort of God-dedicated Saint, capable of miracles (the kangaroo and something alluded to by Sister Mary at the dining table.) It would make some sense then, that God manipulated the conclave to get his guy in, who was predestined (given the foreshadowing of the steamed glass writing on the bus of Lenny as an 11-year-old.) Edited January 17, 2017 by jwc 1 Link to comment
Cigale January 17, 2017 Share January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, WatchrTina said: Did anyone catch what Sister Mary's t-shirt said? It was something about a virgin but I never got it all. It said: I'm a virgin but this an old t-shirt. 2 Link to comment
BooBear January 17, 2017 Share January 17, 2017 I have figured this show out. It is the ultimate wish fulfillment. Plot... hahhh we don't need that. Just scene after scene of the Pope being a dick. Telling off the faithful masses? My gosh, if the production value wasn't so high, I would assume this was a SNL skit. Hey SNL should do this one this week Instead of the "Young Pope" entitle it the "Dick Pope". I am in until I get sick of seeing the Pope be a dick, but I think I could watch that forever. Quote It would make some sense then, that God manipulated the conclave to get his guy in, who was predestined (given the foreshadowing of the steamed glass writing on the bus of Lenny as an 11-year-old.) I didn't think that was Lenny. I thought that was some random kid coming to see the adult Lenny's speech. 3 Link to comment
Constantinople January 17, 2017 Share January 17, 2017 And to think just today the Sydney Morning Herald published the very helpful "What to do if you come face-to-face with a kangaroo"http://www.smh.com.au/victoria/kangaroo-attack-what-do-if-you-come-facetoface-with-a-kangaroo-20170117-gtt8o2.html"Just get away from it as fast as you can" 1 Link to comment
sacrebleu January 17, 2017 Share January 17, 2017 If I ever meet Chris Meloni, the one thing I want to know is how many takes he needed to say, "the monkey's in the basketball!" without cracking a smile.Perhaps his most difficult acting challenge, even including his excellent scene work opposite a can of vegetables in "Wet Hot American Summer." Link to comment
pasdetrois January 18, 2017 Share January 18, 2017 I think I know that kangaroo. His name is Brolga and he is featured on Kangaroo Dundee. He's massive and he spends every camera moment trying to beat the crap out of the guy who rescued him from his dead mother's pouch. 1 Link to comment
Lindy Dear January 19, 2017 Share January 19, 2017 On 1/16/2017 at 11:03 PM, Muffyn said: I'm calling it now - Sister Mary and James Cromwell's character are Lenny's parents. Ah, the mysteries of Venice! Yes. Good call. Link to comment
meep.meep January 19, 2017 Share January 19, 2017 How could she greet him at the orphanage and simultaneously run off to Venice? And decades later have the balls to wear a T shirt that says she's a virgin? Link to comment
eejm January 20, 2017 Share January 20, 2017 A few things on this (much better) second episode: - When a new Pope is elected, he's ushered out almost immediately onto the balcony for the world to see in his new papal garb. Would that have happened to Lenny as well? While I kind of dig his love of mystery and remaining unseen, what was the point of the speech in silhouette if the world's already seen him? - Sister Mary's t-shirt was everything. Everything. - I felt sorry for that poor, sad-eyed Cardinal who confessed to being gay (which, if he was celibate, wasn't against the rules) only to have Pope Lenny quite obviously hit the Shitty Excuse Button to get him out of there. - So we've seen young Lenny arrive at the orphanage calling Sister Mary "Ma" and her insisting on "Sister Mary" instead. Then we see young Scott arrive at the orphanage calling Sister Mary "Sister Mary" and her insisting on "Ma" instead. Interesting... - Were the woman in the dream sequence and the woman in the crowd the same person? - I think that kangaroo is spying on Cardinal Vioello just as much as Sister Mary. - Was the special needs boy that Cardinal Vioello was embracing his secret son? - Spencer seems to be the only person Lenny shows any emotion toward so far. Even Sister Mary, whom he lets into his confidence, still gets aloof Lenny. - I think Father Gutierrez (the good hearted priest Lenny seems to seek out) is the type of priest Lenny has always wanted to be but had too many sharp edges to overcome. 2 Link to comment
BooBear January 20, 2017 Share January 20, 2017 8 hours ago, eejm said: - I felt sorry for that poor, sad-eyed Cardinal who confessed to being gay (which, if he was celibate, wasn't against the rules) only to have Pope Lenny quite obviously hit the Shitty Excuse Button to get him out of there. But I did burst into laughter when the nun came in and said "time for your snack," and the pope cracked up too. When I get an excuse button I am telling the excusers I am too old for a "snack." 2 Link to comment
rue721 January 21, 2017 Share January 21, 2017 On 1/19/2017 at 8:59 PM, eejm said: - So we've seen young Lenny arrive at the orphanage calling Sister Mary "Ma" and her insisting on "Sister Mary" instead. Then we see young Scott arrive at the orphanage calling Sister Mary "Sister Mary" and her insisting on "Ma" instead. Interesting... That was really strange to me, too. Scott was even still calling her "ma" in the present day. Something else that stood out to me was when Lenny was asking Sister Mary about his parents, and she said that thousands of kids were dropped off at the orphanage over the years, so she couldn't be expected to remember him or his parents in particular. She had a point, but it still seemed pretty cold to just lump him in with thousands of nameless, forgotten kids like that IMO. Also, when he got insanely jealous right after, and went barging through her apartment looking for someone, and said that nobody loved him, she calmed him down by saying she saw Christ in him. That she slapped him and brought up Christ right after he said that nobody loved him made me wonder if she got so upset not because she felt hurt or offended personally, but because he was committing blasphemy by doubting God's love. I noticed that she never actually said that she did love him, either, she just said she saw a lot of Christ reflected in him (and presumably she loves Christ). Loving the reflection of God that you see in someone is different from loving them as a person IMO. In general, I get the sense that she loves Lenny more as a Christian than as a mother. I think that she feels agape for him, but maybe that's all. (And meanwhile, I don't get the sense that Lenny feels agape for anybody. I don't even think that he fully believes that agape exists). Well, in any case, Sister Mary is a pretty interesting character! Quote - Spencer seems to be the only person Lenny shows any emotion toward so far. Even Sister Mary, whom he lets into his confidence, still gets aloof Lenny. I think Lenny is actually pretty demonstrative toward Sister Mary. Within a day or two of becoming Pope, he flew her into Italy, named her as his official head advisor, made her the "center" of the church (whatever that means), and settled her into the apartment right next to his. I think he basically wanted to make her his head advisor and make Spenser the head of the priests, so they could all work together and live next door to each other and be a happy little family. Poor Scott is apparently not involved but eh. ;) Anyway, in both the flashback and in the present, I think that Lenny starts out being "friendly" with Sister Mary and thinking of her as more-or-less his mom, and she's the one who makes the relationship more formal and reminds them of their roles. In the flashback, she tells him not to call her ma, that she's Sister Mary. And in the present, she tells him that he's no longer Lenny, he's the Pope. I think that's similar to how Lenny interacted with Spenser, too. As soon as he gets to Spenser's apartment, he tells him he loves him. It's literally the first thing he says, IIRC. And Spenser goes on and on about Lenny being Pope and how angry he is about that, but Lenny keeps saying things like Spenser's hurting him, etc. I think that Lenny thinks of his relationship with Spenser as personal, and is personally hurt by Spenser, and Spenser thinks of their relationship as professional, and feels professionally betrayed by Lenny. It's interesting to me that Lenny brings up love so often, but so inappropriately. He argues that Sister Mary should be his top advisor because she loves him, he tells Spenser that he loves him, he fixates on the Prefect's sexual orientation, he tells Tomaso in confession that he doesn't feel God's love, he tells Sister Mary that nobody loves him...and then when it's actually appropriate to bring up love, like when thinking about how to respond to that kid's letter asking how to love God, he avoids it. I mean, he imagined a cardinal responding to the kid that he (the kid) should think of all the things he *liked,* and that that feeling was God -- even though the kid asked about love specifically. And his first address as pope should have been all about love, but it wasn't at all. Love of any kind was completely absent from it. Quote - I think Father Gutierrez (the good hearted priest Lenny seems to seek out) is the type of priest Lenny has always wanted to be but had too many sharp edges to overcome. I don't understand yet why Lenny is so drawn to Father Gutierrez. IMO, it doesn't seem like Lenny identifies with him especially strongly. Lenny is so bitter, ascetic, and high-strung, and Gutierrez seems to be more-or-less the opposite. It's an intriguing relationship, for sure! On 1/19/2017 at 3:09 PM, meep.meep said: How could she greet him at the orphanage and simultaneously run off to Venice? And decades later have the balls to wear a T shirt that says she's a virgin? We also saw a glimpse of Lenny's mother, in his random memory of her sunbathing topless. And he told Sister Mary that he remembered his parents, and asked her about going to look for them again. I think that Sister Mary and Spenser are his mother- and father-figures but not his actual mom and dad. Thinking about it now, it's weird that he apparently wanted so badly to find bio parents, but also refuses to show his face in public or the media. I mean, if he agreed to do really any publicity at all, his parents would likely see him on TV, and there's a pretty good shot they'd try to get into contact. But that doesn't seem like he's even considering that. 4 Link to comment
ExMathMajor January 22, 2017 Share January 22, 2017 Guess I'm the only one who thinks this pope is the Antichrist, huh? I remember evil snotty Jude Law from Gattaca and The Talented Mr. Ripley. Evil snotty Jude gets me hot so I'm here for this show. If I were a virgin I'd wear Sister Mary's T-shirt in a heartbeat. 5 Link to comment
MyPeopleAreNordic January 22, 2017 Share January 22, 2017 5 hours ago, ExMathMajor said: I remember evil snotty Jude Law from Gattaca and The Talented Mr. Ripley. Evil snotty Jude gets me hot so I'm here for this show. ME TOO. 1 Link to comment
rue721 January 22, 2017 Share January 22, 2017 8 hours ago, ExMathMajor said: Guess I'm the only one who thinks this pope is the Antichrist, huh? Actually, I think the show might be going in the other direction, and saying that Lenny really IS a saint? In particular, I think that the topless sunbathing memory of his mom is meant to show that he was born without Original Sin, since it showed that his mother was apparently too innocent to cover her nakedness, like Eve before the Fall. Link to comment
Mumbles January 23, 2017 Share January 23, 2017 I have no idea where the hell this show is going but for now I am along for the ride - gorgeously shot, great performances, all sorts of mysteries (why does the other cardinal call Sister Mary "mom" but not Lenny?) Plus, a really interesting discussion of how much power you get from not letting yourself be seen, from tacky souvenirs to speeches in the night. I know a lot of folks were goofing on this show on social media before it even ran and yes, some of it is ridiculous and self-indulgent but I think there's something more going on and I am curious as to what it is. 2 Link to comment
Valmarmar January 23, 2017 Share January 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Mumbles said: I have no idea where the hell this show is going but for now I am along for the ride - gorgeously shot, great performances, all sorts of mysteries (why does the other cardinal call Sister Mary "mom" but not Lenny?) Plus, a really interesting discussion of how much power you get from not letting yourself be seen, from tacky souvenirs to speeches in the night. I know a lot of folks were goofing on this show on social media before it even ran and yes, some of it is ridiculous and self-indulgent but I think there's something more going on and I am curious as to what it is. I agree, Mumbles. I found myself leaning in towards the tv. That is my "tell" that a show intrigues me. 1 Link to comment
WaltersHair January 27, 2017 Share January 27, 2017 Took me two episodes to figure it out, but Jude Law is channeling Christopher Walken from The Dead Zone in terms of his accent. Now that I've heard it, I can't unhear it. Not a Catholic, but I believe I'd be offended if I was. I've seen some funky happenings in church as a Protestant, but this is on a plain all its own. Still watching, but I don't know why. I'm also having trouble understanding the Italians. I feel Cardinal Mole should have captions when he speaks. 1 Link to comment
TexasGal January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 So apparently it's way more fun to be a nun than a priest. Or at least a cardinal. While they are all getting injections in the ass and taking oxygen between cigarette puffs, the nuns get to play soccer. Good to know. Link to comment
ganesh January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 I'm like why are all the nuns standing around like statues? Oh, they play soccer in the morning! I was entertained more than E1 (it's time for my snack!), but it's not clear where this is going. It seems more like a thought experiment about what would happen to the church if someone like Lenny was elected Pope. I guess that's ok. And it's a miniseries, so I assume there is an ending. I do appreciate that it seems like TPTBs worked out how Lenny actually got elected, and they gave us some information on his rather quick rise. Link to comment
WatchrTina January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 11 hours ago, ganesh said: It seems more like a thought experiment I love this characterization of the series because honestly, I can't figure out how this got made. Or how they got Jude Law and Diane Keaton. Link to comment
ganesh January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 I don't get why everyone is smoking either. Acting wise it always seems complicated to do stuff with your mouth when you're supposed to be talking so much, or putting your hands over your face when you need the viewers to actually see your face. I have to go. It's time for my snack. 2 Link to comment
Miles January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 I literally laughed out loud at the Homilie. It was so ridiculous. Am I supposed to be intrigued by this guy? He seems to be a coward who really believes the things he said in his dream-Homilie, but he can't even admit it to himself, let alone other people. So he overcompensates with this stupid bullshit. That's not very interesting. Hope I'm wrong on this one, but it doesn't seem like it. Link to comment
ganesh January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 The delivery of the speech was fantastic. But the content was absurd. "it's up to you to prove god doesn't exist." Well, no, because I have things to do and I don't care. But the people in attendance of the address aren't those kind of people anyway. The laser pointer and the pope getting all fussy about it was hilarious though. What's with the blond woman in the crowd? They zoomed on her twice. Link to comment
FemmyV February 1, 2017 Share February 1, 2017 On 1/21/2017 at 1:34 PM, rue721 said: I don't understand yet why Lenny is so drawn to Father Gutierrez. IMO, it doesn't seem like Lenny identifies with him especially strongly. Lenny is so bitter, ascetic, and high-strung, and Gutierrez seems to be more-or-less the opposite. I think we're going to find out that Guierrez is either pedophile, or pedophile victim. All those stuffed animals ... creepy. Link to comment
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