S05.E06: So It Begins

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Oliver searches for connections between Prometheus' victims, and Felicity and Curtis discover the victims have a mysterious link to Oliver's past. Meanwhile, Thea has a heart-to-heart with Lance; and Felicity considers telling Malone the truth about her work.

[jenrising]

Awww. How sweet. Felicity's new boyfriend is so dreamy. His hands may be tiny but his heart is huge.

Vomit. 

Lance... really?

[Morrigan2575]

Afte this episode, Mallone is either evil or dead or both by MSF. Dude is toast.

[EmeraldArcher]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Afte this episode, Mallone is either evil or dead or both by MSF. Dude is toast.

Do tell, please!

ETA: Unless you're bugged by people watching by proxy.  I'm sorry.  I want to give it up so bad, but I need a distraction, and I trust everyone here to call out the bad stuff.

Edited November 10, 2016 by EmeraldArcher

[Mellowyellow]

Did Felicity get decent screentime today?

Are they keeping her away from Oliver like they did Laurel?

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, EmeraldArcher said:

Do tell, please!

IMO there was 2 possible ways it would go. She wouldn't tell him and they'd break up. Or she'd tell him and he'd eventually end up evil/dead. She told him so maybe he's Prometheus or working for Prometheus. Or he really is a good guy but him knowing that she works for GA gets him killed. As for the episode count I have no idea but something big always happens in the MSF

[Sunshine]

I think that might have been the dullest episode to date but yay OTA scenes as well as Felicity/Oliver, Felicity/Diggle & Diggle/Oliver.

Malone as fanboy over Green Arrow was a little much.  Although if he's evil it would make more sense.  

First episode that had both Adrian Church and Prometheus in it.

The ending with Lance and Prometheus weapon was interesting though.

Spoiler

Now I wonder if Captain Pike might be Prometheus.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Sunshine

[wonderwall]

Apparently Malone calls Felicity a criminal... and then 20 seconds later they kiss? 

Wow.

[calliope1975]

So what's this season's theme or whatever BFS said they would make clear tonight?

Edited November 10, 2016 by calliope1975

[Sunshine]

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

So what's this season's theme or whatever BFS said they would make clear tonight?

Not sure.  Facing the past?  Moving forward?  Maybe someone should ask BFS.

[Last Time Lord]

Prometheus is such an improvement over Damien Darhk. There's just an awe inspiring menace to him that has been missed.

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Afte this episode, Mallone is either evil or dead or both by MSF. Dude is toast.

I do not recognize this acronym

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Last Time Lord said:

I do not recognize this acronym

midseason finale

[BunsenBurner]

Well the guy who people were thinking was from the Royal Flush gang was just a bystander. 

That parachute arrow sure is getting a lot of work! 3 people? Suspending belief is kind of hard.

[statsgirl]

The "thesis statement" seems to be that we shouldn't lie to people we work with, and they're trying to sell that Lance is Prometheus.

The best of Felicity this episode is when she's comic relief. The worst is when she's grateful to Mayo.

In a bunker scene, there is Oliver, Diggle, Rory, Rene, Curtis talking, and Felicity and Evelyn get to have a couple of lines.  Flashbacks are all male, all the time. It's like they went to the frat party and asked the bro dudes what they wanted in the show.

[Last Time Lord]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

midseason finale

Ahhhh! Thanks.

[statsgirl]

2 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

That parachute arrow sure is getting a lot of work! 3 people? Suspending belief is kind of hard.

The worst though was when Felicity got DNA from the arrows that had been melted down into throwing stars.  If it's hot enough to melt metal, wouldn't it have melted the DNA too?

15 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

.

  Hide contents

Now I wonder if Captain Pike might be Prometheus.

 

Good guess. But I really want Mayo to be Prometheus or gone.

[Sunshine]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Good guess. But I really want Mayo to be Prometheus or gone.

Ha! I think that would at least make Malone more interesting.

[Sunshine]

Did the show change their mind or are they just dragging things out until 5.07 the last sweeps episode?   There was so much Susan in the "Previously on" segment but then nothing really in the episode.  I thought for sure they were hooking up because of it.   

[Morrigan2575]

Hmm, not sure. The "previously on" is put together by the CW not the Arrow peeps.  

[ladylaw99]

I am not sure how I feel about this ep.  I want only the "A team" and I can't stand the whining of the "B team". Wild dog really needs to stop with the blondie.  I really need Felicity  to say something to him and put him in his place.

As for the reporter and bf  I really don't care. I wish they would stop taking up airtime.

This is the first time that I actually am wondering who Prometheus is.

I still love my Diggle and Felicity, OTA and I enjoyed the Diggle and Oliver scene.

[statsgirl]

Susan was taping an interview Oliver when Lance showed up hung over.  Thea and Felicity teased him during the episode about his "girlfriend".

(If it stays at that, maybe I can tolerate her but I'm afraid it won't.)

[benteen]

I did like that we got a lot of A Team before we got the B Team.  The B Team featured well in this though Wild Dog is still annoying as hell.

Dolph!  So help me, I'm actually enjoying these Russian adventures.

Loved Felicity's Babylon 5 reference.

[catrox14]

I really dislike Artemis and it's due to the actress. She has not gotten any better since SPN.  Snotty, bratty, whiny.  Ugh.

I was irrationally irritated that Curtis followed Oliver instead of Diggle down the grappling wire

I did love that it the LIST is back!! YAY.

So is Quentin actually Prometheus? Why did he get hit with the throwing star? Is he out there doing it drunk or under the influence like Thea was? 

[ladylaw99]

Dolph has made the flashbacks more interesting for me.

[Morrigan2575]

18 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Did the show change their mind or are they just dragging things out until 5.07 the last sweeps episode?   There was so much Susan in the "Previously on" segment but then nothing really in the episode.  I thought for sure they were hooking up because of it.   

I was just talking to a friend and she made the same comment. In fact she said she was surprised that the episode didn't end with Susan showing up at the office and delivering the "working late Mayor Queen" line that was in the big 6 episode promo. It's possible they cut it for time, changed their minds, or felt it didn't fit.

[Last Time Lord]

I'm still hoping Prometheus is a Flashpoint'd Roy.

Mainly because there should be a consequence to Flashpoint beyond "John's daughter is now a son"

[Sunshine]

49 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Apparently Malone calls Felicity a criminal... and then 20 seconds later they kiss? 

Wow.

You know what I really hate about that scene?  They did something similar with Ray in 3.17 when he found out about Oliver and he calls her a liar or something. She ends up apologizing and then they end up kissing.

[wonderwall]

Just now, Sunshine said:

You know what I really hate about that scene?  They did something similar with Ray in 3.17 when he found out about Oliver and he calls her a liar or something. She ends up apologizing and then they end up kissing.

Apparently he was fine 2 seconds after though and reassured Felicity he was which makes him extra shifty in my eyes. 

Anyway, why is it that when Felicity is with someone else the writers write her completely out of character? I like her when she's with Oliver. She's self assured, doesn't take shit, etc. Anyway, call me when they're back together.

[Lantern7]

Melted-down arrows formed into lethal throwing stars? That's unique. Points for originality. Just wish I could feel more about it. No way Quentin is Prometheus.

[way2interested]

Another whelmed episode, in my opinion. Not bad but not great.  I liked a bunch of parts and cringed at others, and it still keeps my interest. The only problem that I have now is that I am really puzzled at thinking of any possible emotional cathartic moment that could possibly come out of the plot this season, since many of these episodes seem to just be wading through character moments instead of really delving into them. I still like the small character moments (Oliver and Diggle, even on paper Evelyn even though the execution is shaky, Lance and Thea, etc.), but none of them seem to have a real mark or resonance in the story. I'll give them some (Oliver/Felicity in 502, Oliver's speech to Rory in 502), but not many really memorable or resonating beyond "I liked that."

Also, I don't know how they think I'm going to believe that Lance has anything to do with shadiness in the police department when literally right before that they had a scene right at the police department with Felicity and her temp bf who still has revealed any real purpose yet. At this point, what's the real red herring here? (I get that they want it to be Lance, but c'mon writers, am I supposed to be a regular tv viewer or not?) 

[catrox14]

27 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

I'm still hoping Prometheus is a Flashpoint'd Roy.

Mainly because there should be a consequence to Flashpoint beyond "John's daughter is now a son"

I don't think those are Colton Hayne's legs in that suit.  I suppose I should study it more closely though...for science.

[Last Time Lord]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't think those are Colton Hayne's legs in that suit.  I suppose I should study it more closely though...for science.

In theory, Colton wouldn't need to be in the suit until they filmed any reveal, like the stuff with Zoom on Flash last year.

But who am I to stand in the way of Scientific progress? ;)

[KirkB]

So, Prometheus has been around long enough to know Oliver from his Hood days and was able to gather arrows he shot at various people? That would seem to imply he's someone we've seen before wouldn't it? I know the show wants us to think its Quentin but like way2interested said, I've been watching TV way too long to fall for that. Doesn't leave a lot of other options though, unless it's Yao Fei or Shado. Honestly, unless it does turn out to be one of them whoever it is will probably turn out to be disappointing after all the hype. Still, at least he's an actually menacing villain. Dark was only tolerable because of NM and even he was better than poor, miscast Matt Nable as Ra's.

I also think that the focus on Felicity's boyfriend does not bode well. For him. His being a bad guy seems unlikely, they've already pulled that trick several times and I would hope the show runners had more tricks up their sleeves than that. More than likely Felicity is going to be in Prometheus's cross hairs and Oliver will not be able to get to her in time, so he'll probably take the hit.

Dolph Lundgren? Well, the Russian flashbacks just got really interesting.

[statsgirl]

The thing against Mayo being Prometheus is that he seems too young to have been active 4 years ago, although maybe all those old Arrow arrows are in storage so he can steal them from there.  (Tyler Ritter himself is 31.)  Sunshine's theory of it being Lt Pike (who was in 501 as well as season 1 and2 2) makes a lot of sense, especially since the police were so against The Hood and The Arrow in the first two seasons and he could have resented all the red shirt cops who got killed because of The Hood and The Arrow.

Since none of us is buying that it's Quentin, do we think Prometheus cut him when he was passed out?.

[BkWurm1]

First thoughts.

Again, a really sloooowwww episode.  The Thea/Quentin stuff was exceedingly boring except for Quentin miraculously being left alive with only a cut. 

I didn’t love that Felicity told Billy boy that she was working with the Arrow but it was more about Oliver than her relationship with Tiny Hands. There’s still anger there. I’m also more convinced than ever that he’s in on it somehow. 

REALLLY not loving the constant repetition of “Oliver’s new girlfriend” but at least SA didn’t fail me and when Susan was flirting, his nope face came out. 

There was some good stuff in this episode but the boobs are not part of that. The actress playing Evelyn was terrible, really terrible.   And that was before she cut Felicity off AND didn’t call in when Prometheus showed up, so she’s on my list.  Wild Dong was barely in it and managed to piss me off with his whining.  I thought maybe that after last week they’d drop that trait, but nope.  I’m done giving him a chance and will now settle down to hating him.  Curtis is purposely being written annoying.  Rory was as usual, the best of the bunch, the only rational one and the only one that has anything interesting about him.

I think I was more interested in the flashbacks this time.  At least that Oliver makes sense. 

[thuganomics85]

So, somehow, the flashbacks are now becoming my favorite part of the show.  First, David Meunier (Johnny Crowder!!!) shows up as a top guy of the Bratva.  And then we meet Kovar and it's Freaking Dolph Lundgren?!  That should be fun.  At the very least, they better find some cheesy way to have him give a shoutout to Rocky IV and have him say "I must break you!" to Oliver before his run ends.

Besides that, another episode where I know I'm suppose to understand why the Geek Squad is pissed at Oliver for all the secrets, lies, and the whole "use to be a serial killer" thing (It was just a phase, man!), but I still have such a low opinion of all of them other then Rory, that I don't blame Oliver for not trusting them with too much information.  I still get that there is a learning curve to all of this, but they still see way over their heads in almost every aspect of this crime fighting thing.  So, yeah, I don't blame Oliver for wanting to keep certain things between him and Felicity/Diggle, and not the rest.  But I still get the whole shock over the serial killer thing!

Liked the few Original Team Arrow moments and the scenes between Oliver/Diggle and Diggle/Felicity.  It is so great having Diggle back with the rest of the gang!

So, apparently this Prometheus guy builds the throwing stars from all of the arrows that Oliver used in the past, and has the capacity to get the evidence locker to get them.  Final scene points to Quentin of all people, but, yeah, that ain't happening, unless he has somehow acquired another personality or is being mind-controlled.  He is totally being set-up.  Right now, I'm guessing either Felicity's boring squeeze or Chase, the DA who pops in from time to time, but they bothered making the actor a regular, so he clearly is set up for bigger things.

Speaking of boring squeeze, that bit where he was all "Your a criminal!" to her and then they are already making out again was hilarious!  This relationship is so silly.  Only matched by Oliver still making eyes at Susan, even though that would likely be a bad idea on so many levels.

Still..... Johnny Crowder and Ivan Drogo are in the flashbacks!  Best flashbacks ever!!

[way2interested]

Just now, thuganomics85 said:

Besides that, another episode where I know I'm suppose to understand why the Geek Squad is pissed at Oliver for all the secrets, lies, and the whole "use to be a serial killer" thing (It was just a phase, man!), but I still have such a low opinion of all of them other then Rory, that I don't blame Oliver for not trusting them with too much information.  I still get that there is a learning curve to all of this, but they still see way over their heads in almost every aspect of this crime fighting thing.  So, yeah, I don't blame Oliver for wanting to keep certain things between him and Felicity/Diggle, and not the rest.  But I still get the whole shock over the serial killer thing!

Yeah, this. I couldn't put my finger on it, but during that scene I was just going, "what?" I understood the issues from the newbies pov, but I could not side with them at all and was just siding with Oliver and Diggle on this one. Although I at least agreed with Felicity on telling them about the fact that there was a new bad out there for strategic purposes.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Apparently Malone calls Felicity a criminal... and then 20 seconds later they kiss? 

Wow.

He did a real quick turn around which is why I'm going with him being in on it.  He seemed genuinely angry and seemed to see it in black and white and then jumped to, well, I guess you are doing a needed service and then started fanboying but it rang false.  Could just be the lack of chemistry, could be on purpose.  

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

The "thesis statement" seems to be that we shouldn't lie to people we work with, and they're trying to sell that Lance is Prometheus.

 

I don't get how anyone would think they are trying to say Lance is actually Prometheus.  He was passed out drunk in his messy apartment when he wakes up on his couch only to discover a cut on his arm.  He looks super confused and then sits up and find a perfectly clean throwing star on his coffee table. We know that Promethus got cut fighting on the subway (nice to know that was working again until they blew it up) but nothing has ever indicated that Lance could fight like that sober let alone drunk.   And as far as we could see, Lance stayed in his apartment the whole time and got drunk.  

I'm more inclined to think Prometheus is setting him up with physical evidence to take the fall.  

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

The worst though was when Felicity got DNA from the arrows that had been melted down into throwing stars.  If it's hot enough to melt metal, wouldn't it have melted the DNA too?

Good guess. But I really want Mayo to be Prometheus or gone.

The way I understood it was Felicity was saying that the alloy had a kind of DNA to it, not in the literal human sense, but recognizable markers to the metal.   

Quote

 

8 MINUTES AGO, THUGANOMICS85 SAID:

Besides that, another episode where I know I'm suppose to understand why the Geek Squad is pissed at Oliver for all the secrets, lies, and the whole "use to be a serial killer" thing (It was just a phase, man!), but I still have such a low opinion of all of them other then Rory, that I don't blame Oliver for not trusting them with too much information.  I still get that there is a learning curve to all of this, but they still see way over their heads in almost every aspect of this crime fighting thing.  So, yeah, I don't blame Oliver for wanting to keep certain things between him and Felicity/Diggle, and not the rest.  But I still get the whole shock over the serial killer thing!

 

Here's my confusion.  Why withhold info about a serial killer targeting the GA when it directly impacts them going out into the field fighting?  That part was stupid.  But equally stupid was spilling Oliver's deeper, darker secrets when he didn't even trust them with what shouldn't have been a secret??

[insomniadreams88]

A few quick thoughts:

It is 100% okay for OTA to have their secrets from the B-team. Tell them what they need to know going in the field, but they shouldn't be mad that OTA has secrets from them. Those are two different things. 

I wanted Evelyn to have a storyline, but this? I didn't hate it, but I just didn't care about it. 

What bothers me the most about Felicity telling Mayo about her work with the GA? She does it in the middle of a police station, in an interrogation room when anyone can be watching on the other side of the glass. Also, Mayo went from "You're a criminal!" to "Tell me all about him!" in two seconds flat. Either he's shady or they really just don't care about him and wanted to get that out of the way in one scene rather than drag out the drama over multiple episodes.

In order for Lance to be Prometheus, he'd have to be more skilled than everyone else on the show considering he's drinking again.

Calling Susan Oliver's girlfriend every two seconds just got annoying and it had nothing even to do with her. That went on far too long. And did I hear that Thea told Felicity that Oliver's dating her? Really? Come on, Thea. I'm still a little mad at you for telling Oliver it was okay to not tell Felicity about William last year.  I just hope Oliver listens to Thea and Lance and doesn't actually date her. Where's the professionalism, Susan? Please, Oliver, think with your head. 

And still, Anatoly's my favorite. That first scene in the flashbacks with him teaching Oliver to build a bomb? LOVED him in it. Can he come visit Star City please? 

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 I just hope Oliver listens to Thea and Lance and doesn't actually date her. Where's the professionalism, Susan? Please, Oliver, think with your head. 

One small correction:  "Please, Oliver, think with your BIG head."  Not the little one.   

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

And still, Anatoly's my favorite. That first scene in the flashbacks with him teaching Oliver to build a bomb? LOVED him in it. Can he come visit Star City please? 

Anatoly has been a bright spot in every episode.  Also like the Bratva redshirt that went with Oliver to plant the bomb complimenting Oliver on being really good at playing "douche".  I doubt that word choice was an accident.  

[BunsenBurner]

What if Lance is Prometheus and he is being drugged and being told what to do. Maybe it's in the liquor. But then we would need to know who is behind Prometheus.

[Lantern7]

37 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

What if Lance is Prometheus and he is being drugged and being told what to do. Maybe it's in the liquor. But then we would need to know who is behind Prometheus.

Malcolm is still skulking around somewhere, right? I understand he's busy elsewhere, but drugging people into killing others and he knows about Oliver's list? He'd be the first guy on my list.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, BunsenBurner said:

What if Lance is Prometheus and he is being drugged and being told what to do. Maybe it's in the liquor. But then we would need to know who is behind Prometheus.

As far as we know, Lance isn't related to Malcolm. As we know from Malcolm, drugging and implanting hypnotic suggestions to murder people in the ones you love is only way to protect your family. Doesn't everyone turn their family members into Manchurian candidates killers? Maybe it's Lance's ex-wife.

Was Rory flirting with Curtis? He said the schnapps was strong and sweet just like Curtis.

[looptab]

Wow, so sad coming in here and finding so few posts. :/ 

3 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Anyway, why is it that when Felicity is with someone else the writers write her completely out of character? I like her when she's with Oliver. She's self assured, doesn't take shit, etc. Anyway, call me when they're back together.

I didn't find her out of character. She's on the record for being against lying, and there she was admitting to the guy she's dating that she's been lying to him. I didn't find strange that she would be worried about his reaction, nor relieved when he wasn't mad.

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

What if Lance is Prometheus and he is being drugged and being told what to do. Maybe it's in the liquor. But then we would need to know who is behind Prometheus.

Without the actual skill, drugged or not, Lance couldn't pull it off, well unless we find out alien tech or magic is behind it and that would be so far beyond anything grounded in reality, even for Supergirl or The Flash, let alone Arrow.  Now LoT, maybe, just maybe.   

Honestly, this "twist" is so ridiculous that if the show pushes it as plausible at all I might actually find the will to drop the show because this would be all the stupidity of insta Canary but now add thirty years on top of the no training and the heart condition and if that's the level of credulity the show would now expect from its audience, there would be no hope for anything.   

I already lost huge respect for this show when the Green Arrow shows up IN THE APARTMENT at an active crime scene.  It's one thing to hang around in alleys or show up in dark offices or on rooftops but inside at an active crime scene?  I almost threw something at the tv.  

Edited November 10, 2016 by BkWurm1

[bmoore4026]

Anyone else hope that Prometheus murders the shit out of The New Recruits?

[looptab]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Honestly, this "twist" is so ridiculous that if the show pushes it as plausible at all

I didn't think the show was trying to sell it - like it did with, say, Roy dreaming of killing Sara. I thought it was an explicit way of showing that Prometheus is setting Lance up.

[benteen]

4 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Anyone else hope that Prometheus murders the shit out of The New Recruits?

So long as Rory isn't one of them...

[Primetimer]

Dolph Lundgren stops by to lighten the mood a little on a dark show.

View the full article

[Racj82]

11 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The "thesis statement" seems to be that we shouldn't lie to people we work with, and they're trying to sell that Lance is Prometheus.

The best of Felicity this episode is when she's comic relief. The worst is when she's grateful to Mayo.

In a bunker scene, there is Oliver, Diggle, Rory, Rene, Curtis talking, and Felicity and Evelyn get to have a couple of lines.  Flashbacks are all male, all the time. It's like they went to the frat party and asked the bro dudes what they wanted in the show.

Do people actually sit and count how Uchiha dialogue women have on tv shows? Honestly question.

Thea has her own storyline independent of the team and is still funny reacting to Oliver.

Artemis took the spotlight of the episode as far as the newbies went.

Felicity has her own plot navigating secrets in her relationship and learning from the themes of the episode. How does any of this equal some he man woman hater/ frat bro show?