Carol: One Day You Just Change

[HalcyonDays]

Seeing requests for thread title changes. A couple of people have mentioned Carol: One Day You Just Change

 

I actually really like this one because it encompasses Carol's journey and overall arc. She's a Late Bloomer is kinda the same, but I think the direct quote from Carol is better.

 

I'll change the thread title and if anyone is really really not pleased with it, PM me some more suggestions. Cheers.

[shanndee]

Thank you! I like the change. The 2 titles you mentioned were my favourites. I originally liked The She's a Late Bloomer option better, but I like the idea of her own words better than someone else's opinion.

 

Thanks!

[maplebrew]

I can do without the singing too. Keeping fingers crossed that the Beth centric episode that I'm assuming is coming up, isn't a Beth musical review. 

[ghoulina]

So pleased with this title change. I think it fits so perfectly, and I'm kind of embarrassed to say, but it just gives me chills every time I hear her say it.

[RedheadZombie]

I can do without the singing too. Keeping fingers crossed that the Beth centric episode that I'm assuming is coming up, isn't a Beth musical review. 

 

I worked in a hospital with a ritzy lobby that included a piano.  It shocked me how many people waltzed over and began playing - regardless of time of day.

[editorgrrl]

Those rapey ambulance drivers (the ones with the crosses in their car windows) made a big mistake when they claimed Carol. They thought she was weak because she's petite with grey hair, but Carol's nobody's ward.

[ghoulina]

Haha, that's what my husband said. He's said, "Ooooh, they're thinking 'grey haired old lady', but boy did they make a mistake!"

[kikismom]

I worked in a hospital with a ritzy lobby that included a piano.  It shocked me how many people waltzed over and began playing - regardless of time of day.

Our hospital has a grand piano in the lobby and a 3 revolving shifts of dudes that play Soft Adult Contemporary Favorites. That's why you get charged $7.50 for that box of Kleenex on your nightstand. Somebody's got to pay for it.

[shanndee]

Haha, that's what my husband said. He's said, "Ooooh, they're thinking 'grey haired old lady', but boy did they make a mistake!"

 

Oh, I like your husband! 

 

I am looking forward to Carol showing them the error of that judgement...but I'm getting more and more afraid that the writers are going to sacrifice her. I will be MOST displeased if that happens. Another board I visit is planning a "riot" if Carol is killed. I may have to join them.

 

Don't make me do it show runners!

[ghoulina]

I'm worried about that as well. Another poster on here mentioned that it looked they were grooming Beth to take the torch from Carol. I will just die if that happens. 

[shanndee]

Ack!

 

*sticks fingers in ears*  LA LA LA LA LA  I can't hear you! I can't hear you!

 

(that may be the worst thing I've ever heard)

 

LA La La La La....

[NoWillToResist]

Why do TPTB insist of using Carol's fate as a cliffhanger? First it was the prison when everyone thought she was killed with T-Dog. They even made a grave for her. Then, she was banished and disappeared for months from the show. Then they ended the last episode with "where's Carol"? This episode ended with "there she is! But oh shit, what???" And it doesn't look like we'll get an answer next week either.

 

Do they delight in tormenting Carol fans? Not cool, guys. Not cool.

[Pete Martell]

I'm worried about that as well. Another poster on here mentioned that it looked they were grooming Beth to take the torch from Carol. I will just die if that happens. 

 

All the ship-baiting they do with "Bethyl" and "Caryl" tends to blur them together, but otherwise I don't think they are trying to conflate Carol and Beth. Yes, they were both seen as weak but became stronger, but otherwise their story arcs have been very different. Beth's have been about what other people have done to her and how she struggles to cope. Carol's have, for the last few years, become about what happens when no one is making decisions for you, and you have the power after many years of powerlessness. 

 

That's what I appreciate most about Carol's material and why I will be so disappointed if she does go. She's not just some superwoman who saves the day. She had to make agonizing choices and now has to struggle with living with those choices. It's great psychological drama with so much room for interpretation and inference, where one look can speak volumes. And this is Melissa McBride's forte. 

 

If Beth and Carol both stay on the show, I just can't see their stories ever being the same. I hope they won't. Enough female characters have been pitted against each other on the show and in fandom.

[kikismom]

 Then, she was banished and disappeared for months from the show.

I think she disappeared for months for viewers; in the show timeline...she was banished right before the prison fell.

Rick tells Daryl, and they go to tell Tyreese, and the tower blows up. Then the group is on the run for just days; Tyreese and Carol meet with the girls on the RR tracks shortly after the fall.

Which is interesting when you think about Carol saying to Rick (paraphrase) "You told me I could make it on my own. And I could." ( for a few days anyway :-D)

I think as soon as he was out of sight she went right back to the prison, and she was asked if she was there when the Governor attacked and she said (paraphrase again) "Just for the end".

 

Still, I get your point about repeatedly putting Carol in will she or won't she be back? situations. But IMHO it was not originally to torment the fans; I think it may have been the indecision of TPTB over killing off the character or not. MMB had her neck on the chopping block more than once.

Edited November 4, 2014 by kikismom

[NoWillToResist]

 

I think she disappeared for months for viewers; in the show timeline...she was banished right before the prison fell

 

Yes, that's why I said "from the show", not the narrative; sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm just tired of being toyed with. I'm trying to think if any other character has had so many cliffhangers dragged out about their fate.

 

 

All the ship-baiting they do with "Bethyl" and "Caryl" tends to blur them together, but otherwise I don't think they are trying to conflate Carol and Beth

 

How much would I love it if Beth and Carol team up to take down the hospital together and their gang arrives to rescue them just in time to see B&C walking away from the hospital in flames behind them, having taken care of business.... :)

[Pete Martell]

It still boggles my mind that she nearly died in "Killer Within." That would have been such a terrible decision, not only in getting rid of a character who had a vocal following (even though she had less of a role at the time), but also a character who was consistently growing and changing. It also would have been overkill, it would have taken away from T-Dog's sacrifice, would have overshadowed him, and would have thrown me right out of the episode.

 

I don't know who convinced Mazzarra not to do that, but whoever did really played a key part in strengthening and maturing the show and its treatment of female characters.

[ghoulina]

It was actually the Carol-is-dead fakeout that made me realize I was falling in love with her (I mean this in a totally platonic way). In season 2 I couldn't stand her character (though I thought MM was an amazing actress), but at the beginning of three I was like, "Well, damn, she's come a long way". (They ALL had.) I laughed so hard when she almost shot Rick and was all, "Sorry" like it weren't no thang. But she wasn't my favorite by far, there were so many other characters I loved at that point. But then when we went, what? Two episodes thinking she may be dead? I was beside myself. I kept asking my husband, "Where's Carol? Do you think she's okay?" I realized just how much I really liked her, how much I WANTED a Carol on this show, a woman I could relate to. I didn't hate Lori as much as the others, but I didn't find her entirely relatable, plus she was dead. Andrea was anathema as far as I was concerned, and while Maggie was cool she was too young for me to relate much. Carol is kind of who I think I might be in the ZA - weak at first, but becomes strong. I doubt myself a lot and I think Carol did too. Watching her journey has meant a lot to me personally, and it's so amazing to see someone who is a grey-haired mother kicking ass, but in a totally "normal", non-superwoman way. 

[NoWillToResist]

I would appreciate some official confirmation of Carol's age. I'm fucking sick of "she's so old!", which, as far as I can tell stems from her grey hair. Frankly, in this society, a fuckton of people would have grey hair in their 30s and 40s if not for fucking Miss Clairol. Grey hair does not mean senior citizen. Not by a long shot.

 

She had a kid who was Carl's age, so she's a peer to Rick. Is Rick a 60 year old dude? NO. No he is not. Carol is not Hershel. She did not have grown ass children and apparently a late-in-life accident/miracle.

 

I'd say she's in her 40s at the most. Hardly ready for her pension...

[ghoulina]

Oh, I definitely don't consider her "old". I'm not old. I'm 34 and I have quite a few greys creeping their way in. That's why I find her relatable. She's a mom, like me, she's probably a bit older, but not much. And she just looks like a normal woman. Elderly? No. Real? Absolutely. 

[Nashville]

I would appreciate some official confirmation of Carol's age. I'm fucking sick of "she's so old!", which, as far as I can tell stems from her grey hair. Frankly, in this society, a fuckton of people would have grey hair in their 30s and 40s if not for fucking Miss Clairol. Grey hair does not mean senior citizen. Not by a long shot.

 

She had a kid who was Carl's age, so she's a peer to Rick. Is Rick a 60 year old dude? NO. No he is not. Carol is not Hershel. She did not have grown ass children and apparently a late-in-life accident/miracle.

 

I'd say she's in her 40s at the most. Hardly ready for her pension...

 

I'd figured more like mid-to-upper 30s - especially when you figure pre-ZA life with Ed was probably good for at least ten year's worth of premature aging, appearance-wise.

[mightysparrow]

I always thought that Carol was in her early to mid-40s.  I think Rick is supposed to be at least 40.

Edited November 5, 2014 by mightysparrow

[nodorothyparker]

I always tend to assume, unless we're specifically told otherwise like with Beth, that a character is roughly the same age as the actor who plays him/her.  Rick, Daryl, and Carol are all played by actors in their 40s, so that's what I'm going with.

 

I also know what my own hair would look like if I had to stop coloring it, say because the zombie apocalypse had broken out and who's got time for that then?   Well, Daryl inexplicably does, I guess.  But lots of people are naturally going gray by their later 30s and 40s.  The ready access of chemicals to fix it has just given us the expectation that we shouldn't see it.

[Portia]

I would appreciate some official confirmation of Carol's age. I'm fucking sick of "she's so old!", which, as far as I can tell stems from her grey hair. 

Word word word. For years I've been playing a little game:  when I see a woman with a gray hair but a relatively youthful face, I'll ask any man or young person in the vicinity to estimate her age. Inevitably I'm horrified by the response; they always seem to be off by at least 10 years. It's like the gray renders them incapable of noticing the skin. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by Portia

[Mindymoo]

I know that Melissa McBride is nearly 50, but I think that she looks about ten years younger than that. And she's really, really hot. I'm 28, so this is a bit of a ways off, but when I start going grey, I'm seriously cutting my hair the way that she does. It's a really cute and flattering style, and it doesn't make her look "old" at all.

[NoWillToResist]

My mother had a lot of grey early on but she resolutely refused to dye it. As time went on, she found more and more that she was automatically given senior discounts at stores, but she was all "fuck 'em. If they wanna assume I'm old due to superficiality, I'll take the financial reward for it. Shallow tax!" :)

 

I wasn't a huge fan of Carol's super short style at the beginning (though I praised it for its practicality despite the fact it was probably due to Ed, rather than the zombies). I'm glad she's keeping it short but has let it get a little bit longer, just to soften the look a bit.

 

McBride has beautiful bone structure and gorgeous eyes. I love that her hair frames her features so well. Too bad Daryl can't take note. Honest to Christ, I couldn't even tell you his eye colour...

Edited November 5, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[shanndee]

Word word word. For years I've been playing a little game:  when I see a woman with a gray hair but a relatively youthful face, I'll ask any man or young person in the vicinity to estimate her age. Inevitably I'm horrified by the response; they always seem to be off by at least 10 years. It's like the gray renders them incapable of noticing the skin. 

 

THIS!

 

All of the women in my family have gone prematurely gray. All of them. I fought it for awhile, keeping it coloured. This year I decided to embrace my gray (which is actually white, so I'm kind of lucky that way). I also cut my hair. Let me set the scene for you : I was shopping with my husband a month ago. Fine.  I returned to  the store 2 days later, solo. The clerk said, "Oh, your son didn't come with you today" 

 

For the record, my husband is a whole six years younger than me. I was really tempted to start dying my hair again, but I've decided, fuck it, this is who I am...and if I can make you uncomfortable when I politely correct you, I am going to enjoy doing it! :P

[Portia]

McBride has beautiful bone structure and gorgeous eyes. I love that her hair frames her features so well. Too bad Daryl can't take note. Honest to Christ, I couldn't even tell you his eye colour...

I will never in a million years understand how NR is considered hot, unless people are looking only at his body. Daryl's a great character, but I think he's ugly as sin. In my world, Carol could do SO much better. Edited November 5, 2014 by Portia

[Bruinsfan]

For the record, my husband is a whole six years younger than me. I was really tempted to start dying my hair again, but I've decided, fuck it, this is who I am...and if I can make you uncomfortable when I politely correct you, I am going to enjoy doing it! :P

Heck, just tell 'em he's not your son, he's your boytoy.

[NoWillToResist]

 

I was really tempted to start dying my hair again, but I've decided, fuck it, this is who I am...and if I can make you uncomfortable when I politely correct you, I am going to enjoy doing it! :P

 

Well, by correcting them - and likely embarrassing them - you are likely ensuring that they will not make similar assumptions/comments in future, so think of it as a public service! :)

 

I think it's similar to how the general public kind of caught on that one shouldn't ask a woman if she's pregnant, because if she's not, well, you just landed yourself in one hell of a social pickle. :D

[GreyBunny]

MMB is 49 and the TV wiki says Carol is "mid-to-late 40's." 

[shanndee]

Heck, just tell 'em he's not your son, he's your boytoy.

 

I will definitely do that to anyone who I deem to have been obnoxious about it! :D

 

Well, by correcting them - and likely embarrassing them - you are likely ensuring that they will not make similar assumptions/comments in future, so think of it as a public service! :)

 

I think it's similar to how the general public kind of caught on that one shouldn't ask a woman if she's pregnant, because if she's not, well, you just landed yourself in one hell of a social pickle. :D

 

I can just see the headlines now: Shanndee, public defender, tirelessly altering assumptions, one person at time! ;)

[NoWillToResist]

 

TV wiki says Carol is "mid-to-late 40's."

 

Hmm, do we know if that's accurate? I kind of assumed that Carol would not have been a new mother as late as her 30s (which I'm figuring she would have been based on Sophia's approx age).

[lulee]

Hmm, do we know if that's accurate? I kind of assumed that Carol would not have been a new mother as late as her 30s (which I'm figuring she would have been based on Sophia's approx age).

I don't think her age has ever been stated on the show. So unless it is in the comics. Any age isn't canon, just speculation.

[JBody]

MMB is beautiful. Hated her hair in S1. It's a bit better now. A bit. When her hair was red with blood in S5E1 I thought it looked fab. Seriously, if they ever settle down and I was her I'd find some walnuts and dye my hair brown. Grey hair is always aging on even the most youthful of faces. Is this shallow? Yup. But it would make me feel better and life is more about just surviving. I know it seems ridiculous but that's what I'd do.

[ghoulina]

I agree that her hair looks better now that it's grown out and wispy around the edges. She has very delicate features, so she can pull off a shorter do. It's very practical as well; I always got overheated just watching Lori walk around with her long, brown mane sticking to her neck and shoulders. 

 

The ages....There has been much debate for years, trying to suss out who is where. I always just guessed Carol was supposed to be late 30s/early 40s. Ed looked like he fit that group as well, I wouldn't put him older - and I don't see him being with an older woman, even a meek one. He was too insecure and macho for that. I always imagined Daryl to be early 30s, and Merle to be about the same age as Carol. I know Rooker is a lot older than 40 IRL, but I didn't think his character was supposed to be. He just looked like someone who led a rough life. 

[Raven1707]

 

I also know what my own hair would look like if I had to stop coloring it, say because the zombie apocalypse had broken out and who's got time for that then?   Well, Daryl inexplicably does, I guess.

 

I like to think that Daryl had been getting honey highlights and had to give all that up when the world went to hell...

[Bruinsfan]

I have seen guys with bleach-blond mullets here in the South, so it's not impossible.

[Nashville]

I have seen guys with bleach-blond mullets here in the South, so it's not impossible.

 

Wearing camos, even.  :)

[mandolin]

Eugene really exemplifies the whole "business in the front, party in the back" philosophy. Er, maybe not.

[lawless]

MMB is beautiful. Hated her hair in S1. It's a bit better now. A bit. When her hair was red with blood in S5E1 I thought it looked fab. Seriously, if they ever settle down and I was her I'd find some walnuts and dye my hair brown. Grey hair is always aging on even the most youthful of faces. Is this shallow? Yup. But it would make me feel better and life is more about just surviving. I know it seems ridiculous but that's what I'd do.

I've hit 40 and I'm definitely not all gray, but I've got some, and I would be extremely tempted to pick up one of the many, many Clairol bottles I am sure are in every abandoned pharmacy, grocery store, and many people's bathroom cabinets and do a little touchup on the grays.  The logistical hurdle would be having enough water to use to wash the dye out, since it seems like it's definitely in short supply on the road.  Why would I want to do it?  For self esteem, but also?  There's a survival aspect to it too because people might treat you a little better if they think you're younger and more attractive.  Horribly sad, but a lot of older women find that people treat them as invisible and unimportant.  I wouldn't want to be more appealing to people like the Claimers, but on the other hand, if people like that would just as soon kill you, you might buy a little time to get the upper hand if they wanted to keep you alive for their horrible purposes.  A quick death might be preferable to a slower, tortuous one with them, but on the other hand, you might have the chance to escape or turn the tables on them. 

 

On the other hand -- people might underestimate you more if you appeared like a harmless middle-aged lady, as the Grady Hospital people seem to have viewed Carol, so maybe that's the better way to go survival-wise.  What I am really enjoying about Carol's character is that she's not suddenly become a ninja warrior capable of feats of strength that are completely unrealistic to her actual size, age, and build.  However, she's formidable because she's smart, gutsy, kinda ruthless sometimes, and doesn't quit trying.  She didn't start out that way, but her transformation has been done slowly, piece by piece, and it's believable.  At the same time, Carol's not infallible, and she seems to be struggling with her own soul, and it's interesting because you really don't know how much longer she will survive, and whether her transformation and internal struggles will resolve, nor if so, how.  I hope the show doesn't kill her!  I don't think her transformation is complete.

Edited November 8, 2014 by lawless

[NoWillToResist]

 

There's a survival aspect to it too because people might treat you a little better if they think you're younger and more attractive.  Horribly sad, but a lot of older women find that people treat them as invisible and unimportant.  I wouldn't want to be more appealing to people like the Claimers

 

Sometimes being female is all certain men need. Your looks are irrelevant.

 

Equally, there was that asshole who wanted Carl's ass, so I really don't think one can account for all the perversions in the world..never mind one as fucked as the ZA....

[nodorothyparker]

I would be extremely tempted to pick up one of the many, many Clairol bottles I am sure are in every abandoned pharmacy, grocery store, and many people's bathroom cabinets and do a little touchup on the grays.

 

I think Daryl's hoarding them all.

 

I color my hair now because I started seriously going gray in my early 30s when the kids came (imagine that) but I'll be damned if I'm bothering with it anymore if the dead rise up.  These people walk around covered in walker splatter half the time and often look like they smell like farm animals.  They could deal with my roots showing.

[walnutqueen]

I love grey hair; always have.  So of course I have little hope of going grey (I'm turning 60 and have yet to find a single grey hair - anywhere on my body).  :-(

 

I was shocked to see Carol on the gurney they were bringing in to Hell's Hospital, so am anxious to see how this all unfolds.

[kikismom]

I love grey hair; always have.  So of course I have little hope of going grey (I'm turning 60 and have yet to find a single grey hair - anywhere on my body).  :-(

Thank you, I was reluctant to jump into this confessional for fear of being misinterpreted (which happens to me now and then! :-D)

All right, i'll say it. Not one grey hair (anywhere) and I just turned 55. My grandmother had brown hair till she was 77, then only got a few grey hairs for the rest of her life.

Naturally, I always envied a whole head of snow-white hair which would look so cool.

People assume, of course, that I must color my hair. Actually in college a girl asked what color I used because she wanted my hair color. So it's not really a compliment since everyone just thinks it's fake.

My mom saw a girl on The Amazing Race with phosphorescent fuschia-pink hair, and thought that was the most beautiful hair color ever.( Her second-most beautiful person---- she already decided Janet Jackson is the most beautiful woman  I just can't please people!)

(I did have a doll in my childhood with blue-lilac hair, sigh. That's when my politics of envy started.)

I also wish I had MMB's little features; she has such a delicate face.I saw her earlier incarnation once on a re-run of Walker Texas Ranger (Yeah I watched it!) and she was generic pretty with a head of long curly hair. Cutting it off made her level up.

Edited November 8, 2014 by kikismom

[Nashville]

All right, i'll say it. Not one grey hair (anywhere) and I just turned 55. My grandmother had brown hair till she was 77, then only got a few grey hairs for the rest of her life.

 

Well, I'm 52 and have a scattering of gray - but I'm a guy, so maybe that's different.  :) 

I don't care if it's gray, brown, black, blue, green - so long as it's hair, and it's there.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Nashville

[Bruinsfan]

Gray hair isn't always bad. My grandmother and my maternal aunt both went gray in multi-toned blazes that looked like spun silver.

[RedheadZombie]

I had moved on from the wish of Daryl and Carol getting together, and hoped they just stayed friends.  Then I came across a youtube video (obviously by a Caryl stan) titled Daryl and Carol, Kiss it all Better, and I teared up.  Now I'm torn again.  The video was made last year, so it was all the sweeter having seen the reunion of Carol and Daryl.

[editorgrrl]

Melissa McBride Q&A in Entertainment Weekly:

Do you get it, all the people who want to see that happen and are so invested in that relationship?

 

Yeah, I get it from a fan point of view. I get it. But there is a certain part of that fandom that reads a lot of the fan fiction, and fan fiction goes there. I’ve read one fan fiction ever, and it was very lovely and sweet. It wasn’t the smutty stuff. But I’ve heard about it. It’s fun though. But there are so many ships — so many ships sailing. They’re going to conk into one another, and it can get a little nasty and that kind of makes me sad. They can get nasty to one another. It’s just a TV show. No need to get nasty to each other. Especially because nothing has happened.

[mightysparrow]

Melissa McBride Q&A in Entertainment Weekly:

 

It appears that MMB wants the fans to know that Caryl isn't a thing.  No, she isn't saying that it will never happen but this is the second time that she's made it clear that nothing is going on between Daryl and Carol.  It won't do any good though.

[ghoulina]

I just adore her. So many ships sailing, they're going to conk into one another. Totally cracked me up.