S03.E05: Monster

[patchwork]

Maybe this episode gave us Julian/Alchemy's motivation? He gives them powers hoping for the best but they turn around become criminals.

To be honest I don't remember this season's that well, I'm just watching out of habit at this point, there could easily be a huge contradiction to this theory in the previous episodes. 

Wasn't Cisco's apartment Wally's base in the Flashpoint timeline?

[ruby24]

5 minutes ago, patchwork said:

Wasn't Cisco's apartment Wally's base in the Flashpoint timeline?

Yeah. I actually think it's just a redecoration of Barry's lab though. They're waiting on that new permanent set until Barry and Iris move in together (my guess).

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, RandomMe said:

Did the writers decide that we all hate quippy, funny Cisco and forget to tell me? I liked "grey" Wells and "fun" (or at least "funnier") Cisco, and now I've got neither. I was enjoying Julian too, but couldn't he have softened toward the Flash but not Barry? I liked the idea that somebody, somewhere wouldn't fall prey to Barry's charms. He needs a foil. Not a villain, but a foil in his everyday life.

Sigh. The episode was okay, I guess. I just miss the characters I used to know.

I'd be surprised if his softening toward Barry was anything more than what we saw, letting him stay and share the space still.  He's already learned there's no point in complaining about his unexpected absences but they aren't going to annoy him less, lol. 

[KirkB]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'd be surprised if his softening toward Barry was anything more than what we saw, letting him stay and share the space still.  He's already learned there's no point in complaining about his unexpected absences but they aren't going to annoy him less, lol. 

Julian probably recognizes there isn't much point in pursuing the complaints when Barry is clearly protected by both the Captain and lead detective. And hate must be exhausting. It's better to just let it go, at least until he has something more concrete.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'd be surprised if his softening toward Barry was anything more than what we saw, letting him stay and share the space still.  He's already learned there's no point in complaining about his unexpected absences but they aren't going to annoy him less, lol. 

Julian's softening toward Barry had nothing to do with Singh not giving Barry a harsher reprimand for his tardiness and disappearing. But more to do with Barry saving his ass, and then the Flash saving him from killing a kid. The latter makes no sense, since he was bitching about how the cops had become complacent because Flash was doing their work for them. He hated Flash as much as he hated the villainous meta humans. But, once Flash saved him from making this mistake, all of a sudden, Flash isn't so bad after all?

It would be different if he thought Flash was just as bad as the bad meta humans and if he thought Flash was a glory hound.

I swear this show really needs the writers from JL and JLU.

[Twilight Man]

22 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Or did Barry have his own apartment ... because Flashpoint.

 

Seriously, 'Flashpoint' is becoming the catch all excuse for anything, much like nanites on 'Revolution'.

I know!!!  I'm beginning to use that in other forums as well, instead of "A Wizard Did It."

Unfortunately, not as many people understand this one.

[ottoDbusdriver]

19 minutes ago, Twilight Man said:

I know!!!  I'm beginning to use that in other forums as well, instead of "A Wizard Did It."

Unfortunately, not as many people understand this one.

Is there anything the Simpsons doesn't have a quote for  ?

[ElleMo]

  5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'd be surprised if his softening toward Barry was anything more than what we saw, letting him stay and share the space still.  He's already learned there's no point in complaining about his unexpected absences but they aren't going to annoy him less, lol. 

Julian's softening toward Barry had nothing to do with Singh not giving Barry a harsher reprimand for his tardiness and disappearing. But more to do with Barry saving his ass, and then the Flash saving him from killing a kid. The latter makes no sense, since he was bitching about how the cops had become complacent because Flash was doing their work for them. He hated Flash as much as he hated the villainous meta humans. But, once Flash saved him from making this mistake, all of a sudden, Flash isn't so bad after all?

It would be different if he thought Flash was just as bad as the bad meta humans and if he thought Flash was a glory hound.

I swear this show really needs the writers from JL and JLU.

The Flash didn't just save Draco from making a "mistake," He stopped him from killing a kid. HUGE difference. It would have been life shattering. It is a big enough almost-trauma that it would make him rethink since things. We

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, ElleMo said:

The Flash didn't just save Draco from making a "mistake," He stopped him from killing a kid. HUGE difference. It would have been life shattering. It is a big enough almost-trauma that it would make him rethink since things. We

I agree.  My point was that his softening of Flash and Barry was because of that, and not because Julian thought there was no point in complaining about Barry's absences and tardiness.

[Trini]

Um, no. Team Flash does NOT need HR "The Muse" Wells. Why are y'all keeping him? send it back from whence it came. It makes the auditions last week look even sillier because they didn't even get a good one!

Only a few short scenes, but I was glad to see Capt. Singh.

You have superspeed Barry. You could have finished lunch with Iris.

They probably should have just given Wally/Keiyan time off from this episode (looking forward to him next week, though).

Quite possibly the lamest villain-of-the-week. The subplot with Barry and Julian worked; everything else related to the "monster" was stupid. (Still sticking with my theory that Julian is Alchemy. Just reveal it already, Show.)

This episode could have done more with Caitlin and her mother. We didn't need that scene with the EVIL scientist trying to kidnap her, and we didn't even learn much more about her powers. She was already trying not to use them. I did like seeing Caitlin in another setting with different characters for a change. The scene with her and Cisco was nice -- but that would have been the perfect time for her to tell him. WHY didn't she? They need to do more with the Caitlin/Cisco friendship.

Also I don't know why they decided to add a sound effect to Caitlin's voice when she 'frosted out' (I don't know, what are we calling it?). Killer Frost on Earth-2 never had that.

While I'm glad we learned a bit more about Julian, I thought the opening up to Barry was just a little bit too soon. They could have stretched it out another episode I think. Or started the "internship" last week.

To end on a positive note; the scene at the beginning with Barry being a too eager roommate was funny. Also, that was the set they used for Wally's apartment in Flashpoint.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

HR gets demerits for saying "expresso." Maybe there's an X in espresso on Earth 19?

[maxineofarc]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

Also I don't know why they decided to add a sound effect to Caitlin's voice when she 'frosted out' (I don't know, what are we calling it?). Killer Frost on Earth-2 never had that.

Yeah, the speedsters supposedly do that by vibrating their vocal cords differently than they usually do, don't they? Cold shouldn't affect that. Speaking of, is Barry even trying to do that anymore? Because his voice sounded pretty much normal when the Flash was talking to Julian and Joe, and I would think Julian's observant enough to pick up on that unless we're just handwaving it. Which I'm going to guess we are.

[Argenta]

On 11/2/2016 at 10:18 AM, cambridgeguy said:

Hopefully HR gets toned down a little now that his presumed secret is out of the bag.  There's no reason to babble and twitch as much if he's not trying to divert attention from his lack of science skills.

If the team really wants another scientist they should look up Dr. McGee.  Mercury labs might have been turned into a pile of rubble but she is supposed to be one of the smartest people around and she's more grounded than the entire team put together. 

I like the idea of Christina being on team, but I suspect pride would prevent her from transferring to the long time rival STAR Labs.

As for HR, I bet the team are starting to regret dismissing BritishSteampunk!Wells so quickly now  :p

[Argenta]

23 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

Still on the Cavanagh boat. He sells me on this person who looks the same being a completely different character every season. Fast talker HR was exposed pretty quickly, but for an "idea man," Cisco still seemed to have most of the actual ideas. Who was his partner in Star Labs who actually solved the equation? Will we be seeing him later?

I pricked my ears up at this, too. My prime suspects for HR's partner are: Cisco, Eobard Thawne, or Hartley Rathaway. Any one would be interesting, but I'd especially like a chance to see Hartley again, especially since the other two are already series regulars either here or on LoT. 

[ElleMo]

On 11/1/2016 at 9:38 PM, johntfs said:

So, is Caitlyn's surname in this timeline actually Snow or did she marry some guy named Snow?  Caitmom doesn't seem like she'd remarry.

1

I thought she did.  Wasn't there a photo on the desk of her with another family, including a kid?

I don't trust her.  I think she is up to something and whatever she did to the assistant is not good.    Was he dead or just had a frozen arm?

[maxineofarc]

2 hours ago, Argenta said:

I pricked my ears up at this, too. My prime suspects for HR's partner are: Cisco, Eobard Thawne, or Hartley Rathaway. Any one would be interesting, but I'd especially like a chance to see Hartley again, especially since the other two are already series regulars either here or on LoT. 

Yes! Drives me nuts when they mention him every so often but then we never see him. At least they remember he's around. But this Hartley is nice IIRC, because Flashpoint?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Flash Wonders If Monsters Are Real

Monsters like...this very one, in fact!

[ElleMo]

56 minutes ago, maxineofarc said:

Yes! Drives me nuts when they mention him every so often but then we never see him. At least they remember he's around. But this Hartley is nice IIRC, because Flashpoint?

This Hartley is nice because of another episode when Barry  went back in time so he could ask Wells/Thawne a question.  He tells Cisco about Hartley's implants.  Then a Time Wraith appears and they all have to work together to stop  it and that beings out warm and fuzzy feelings and Hartley is good. 

[legaleagle53]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

HR gets demerits for saying "expresso." Maybe there's an X in espresso on Earth 19?

Thank you!  I heard that when I watched the episode online yesterday, and I wanted to reach through my computer monitor and slap the hell out of HR for saying that!

5 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

Yeah, the speedsters supposedly do that by vibrating their vocal cords differently than they usually do, don't they? Cold shouldn't affect that. Speaking of, is Barry even trying to do that anymore? Because his voice sounded pretty much normal when the Flash was talking to Julian and Joe, and I would think Julian's observant enough to pick up on that unless we're just handwaving it. Which I'm going to guess we are.

I noticed, however, that he still does the very subtle vibration that blurs his facial features, even though he wears a mask.  Wally did it as Kid Flash, too.

[maxineofarc]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

HR gets demerits for saying "expresso." Maybe there's an X in espresso on Earth 19?

Proof that he's a charlatan. Proof!

[Trini]

8 hours ago, Argenta said:

I pricked my ears up at this, too. My prime suspects for HR's partner are: Cisco, Eobard Thawne, or Hartley Rathaway. Any one would be interesting, but I'd especially like a chance to see Hartley again, especially since the other two are already series regulars either here or on LoT. 

I want Hartley back, too! I thought he was great, and had good chemistry with the cast. (Also hoping he can be in the musical crossover.)

[zannej]

It would be cool if Hartley was his partner or if Hartley came back.

I actually sort of wonder if Barry Allen on Earth-19 was HR's partner. Did anyone else notice that he seemed to look at Barry with some sense of recognition?

I wonder it Tom C just pronounced it expresso on purpose to be annoying (or to show that his character had the name wrong since they are out of coffee on his world).

Also, did I hear incorrectly, or did HR say he wanted to write adventure and romance/romantic novels?

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, zannej said:

It would be cool if Hartley was his partner or if Hartley came back.

I actually sort of wonder if Barry Allen on Earth-19 was HR's partner. Did anyone else notice that he seemed to look at Barry with some sense of recognition?

I wonder it Tom C just pronounced it expresso on purpose to be annoying (or to show that his character had the name wrong since they are out of coffee on his world).

Also, did I hear incorrectly, or did HR say he wanted to write adventure and romance/romantic novels?

He did say that there was a Flash on his Earth.

I totally believe HR said it on purpose, but I don't believe it was because they're out of coffee on his Earth, because espresso has been around as long as coffee has. I think.

He said "sci-fi/romance."

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

He did say that there was a Flash on his Earth.

I totally believe HR said it on purpose, but I don't believe it was because they're out of coffee on his Earth, because espresso has been around as long as coffee has. I think.

He said "sci-fi/romance."

Maybe it's pronounced expresso on Earth-19 -- won't know for sure until Barry visits there.

[BkWurm1]

On 11/2/2016 at 11:16 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I agree.  My point was that his softening of Flash and Barry was because of that, and not because Julian thought there was no point in complaining about Barry's absences and tardiness.

My point was that Julian wasn't likely to suddenly be buddies with Barry despite softening enough to let him stay in the lab BECAUSE he would still be annoyed over Barry's absences and tardiness especially since there was no point in complaining about them to the Captain (who really didn't care).  

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

My point was that Julian wasn't likely to suddenly be buddies with Barry despite softening enough to let him stay in the lab BECAUSE he would still be annoyed over Barry's absences and tardiness especially since there was no point in complaining about them to the Captain (who really didn't care).  

So we...agree?

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So we...agree?

Don't we usually?  Lol, it just sounded like some were confused about what I was saying.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Don't we usually?  Lol, it just sounded like some were confused about what I was saying.  

Yes, we do. I got all confuseded. But yes, I don't think just because Julian was nice at the end of this episode, means he won't stop complaining, because, as you stated, Barry will still be late, and still rush off, etc., etc.

[mac123x]

On 11/2/2016 at 1:50 PM, maxineofarc said:

(There is now an ocean of Julian/Barry fanfiction, isn't there?)

It writes itself.  At least up until you realize what it'd be like to have sex with a speedster then the story goes off the rails.

[Ottis]

Quote

Caitlin meets her mom to try and find out how to fix her powers, only for the assistant to try and do something bad instead.  But at least she and her mom's "frosty" (sorry) relationship seems to have thawed (sorry, again).  But now she finds out the more she uses her powers, the harder it will be to reverse them.  Uh oh!

What am, I missing? Does Caitlin have powers, like everyone else who got them, or is she being possessed? Because wouldn't she be in control of those powers, or at least seek training to control them, vs. wanting to reverse them? 

Also, what makes our Earth, "Earth 1?" Whose to say another Earth isn't Earth 1?

Edited November 7, 2016 by Ottis

[ElleMo]

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

What am, I missing? Does Caitlin have powers, like everyone else who got them, or is she being possessed? Because wouldn't she be in control of those powers, or at least seek training to control them, vs. wanting to reverse them? 

Also, what makes our Earth, "Earth 1?" Whose to say another Earth isn't Earth 1?

 

The Earth 1 people made it Earth 1.  At one point last season when Earth 2 Wells was first on, when Cisco referred to the other Earth as earth 2, Wells did make a comment that it was Earth 1 to him.  

[Ottis]

Quote

The Earth 1 people made it Earth 1.  At one point last season when Earth 2 Wells was first on, when Cisco referred to the other Earth as earth 2, Wells did make a comment that it was Earth 1 to him.  

Yes, but that misses the point of my question. The Earth 1 people see things from their own perspective, so they call it Earth 1. Now, what if the Earth 23 people realize there are multiple Earths, and name their own Earth as Earth 1? Which one is Earth 1? We need a better system than "Earth privilege."

[legaleagle53]

5 hours ago, Ottis said:

What am, I missing? Does Caitlin have powers, like everyone else who got them, or is she being possessed? Because wouldn't she be in control of those powers, or at least seek training to control them, vs. wanting to reverse them? 

Caitlin does have powers, which are just starting to manifest themselves.  She doesn't want them, however, because she's seen what those powers did to her Earth-2 counterpart, Killer Frost, and she doesn't want to end up becoming the homicidal head case that Killer Frost became as a result of those powers (Killer Frost is aptly named because in order to survive, she needs to withdraw all of the body heat from others, thus freezing them to death).  That's why she went to her mother for help in getting rid of her powers and why she hasn't told anyone at S. T. A. R. Labs that she has them.

[Ottis]

Quote

(Killer Frost is aptly named because in order to survive, she needs to withdraw all of the body heat from others, thus freezing them to death). 

Ah, thank you. As Ed McMahon would say, "Did NOT know that."I assumed the E2 Killer Frost was a head case before the powers, and the powers then became a tool of evil.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Ottis

[jmelloy]

That's why she's usually paired with Firestorm, because she doesn't kill him. Though that seems a bit dark for this show, of she kills people. 

[immortalfrieza]

Finally got caught up on this show, and this was a middling episode, obviously designed as a vehicle of character interaction rather than action, but it was fine.

 

On 11/3/2016 at 0:10 AM, Trini said:

Um, no. Team Flash does NOT need HR "The Muse" Wells. Why are y'all keeping him? send it back from whence it came. It makes the auditions last week look even sillier because they didn't even get a good one!

They should have just either kept Earth 2 Wells or found somebody else just as intelligent as him on their own Earth, someone they could actually have a real interview with before just bringing someone in from some other Earth that they'll no doubt have to put back by the end of the season anyway. I'm pretty sure that Team Flash knows quite a few scientists that could fit the bill, like Tina Mcgee or Hartley Rathaway.

Oh, and are they just going to ignore the fact that Harrison Wells was a confessed killer? Did I miss it if it occurred to anybody on the show that HR that is going to be arrested on sight if he ever goes in public?

Quote

(Still sticking with my theory that Julian is Alchemy. Just reveal it already, Show.)

I sure as hell HOPE not. If they pull the "Member of the cast who everybody comes to like and trust turns out of be the villain of the season" thing again I will tear my hair out. At least have Julian be some schmuck who gets killed by Alchemy at some point, that would be a much better use of the character than pulling the same plot device yet again.

Quote

 

The scene with her and Cisco was nice -- but that would have been the perfect time for her to tell him. WHY didn't she? They need to do more with the Caitlin/Cisco friendship.

Because if Caitlin simply told everybody what was going on the entire team could start figuring out how to allow Caitlin to use her powers freely instead of having to devote at least one episode to her going haywire. Characters never telling each other anything for no real reason until it's too late to avoid having everything blow up in everybody's faces is so common in fiction I barely even notice it anymore.

Quote

Also I don't know why they decided to add a sound effect to Caitlin's voice when she 'frosted out' (I don't know, what are we calling it?). Killer Frost on Earth-2 never had that.

Killer Frost was also the one who was supposed to have had her Dad die and her mother become distant because of it, the Earth 1 Caitlin was supposed to have both parents alive and well if I recall their "talk" correctly.

Edited November 15, 2016 by immortalfrieza

[Trini]

1 hour ago, immortalfrieza said:

I sure as hell HOPE not. If they pull the "Member of the cast who everybody comes to like and trust turns out of be the villain of the season" thing again I will tear my hair out. At least have Julian be some schmuck who gets killed by Alchemy at some point, that would be a much better use of the character than pulling the same plot device yet again.

Oh, I completely agree it's stupid for them to do this a third time. But since they seem to be going down the same path AGAIN with a mysterious masked villain (::siiiiiigghhh::), I was hoping this time they'd do the reveal early, so that the mystery would be 'how can this man be two persons at once?', instead of 'who's under the mask?' Also I figure they're not going to hire a Harry Potter alum and waste it by having him only be Barry's work frenemy (or die midseason, in your scenario).

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Wells is planning something.  This 'idea guy' thing is just another cover.  Not buying it, personally.

Barry and Julian best mates now?

Non-meta bullied HSer with the know-how to create a big holographic monster.  Now we've officially just about seen it all.

Please don't be going KF with Caitlin, writers.  Surprise us and don't do the obvious.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, immortalfrieza said:

 

Killer Frost was also the one who was supposed to have had her Dad die and her mother become distant because of it, the Earth 1 Caitlin was supposed to have both parents alive and well if I recall their "talk" correctly.

So I guess we have Flashpoint to blame for that as well.  Curse you Barry Allen!

[immortalfrieza]

18 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

So I guess we have Flashpoint to blame for that as well.  Curse you Barry Allen!

Yep. Barry's screwing up has been responsible for all the threats of season 2 and 3 and if one counts his future self's failure to stop the Reverse Flash and save his mother the first time around he's responsible for every single threat on the show up to this point, albeit unwittingly. The show has mainly been just The Flash cleaning up after his own messes every season whether he knows it or not. I hope that the next season doesn't have anything to do with anything Barry did, just wipe the slate clean because if he does something to cause the events of season 4 I won't be able to even PRETEND he's a hero anymore.

[Airraz0r]

This is about motivations for Julian revealing his thoughts regarding metas & his disdain for them.

Caitlin's family was explored. Even though it's start to see how she's the way Caitlin is, I wish more would've been covered.