Goliath - General Discussion

[2727]

Season 2 has the lowest user scores I've ever seen on Amazon for a big budget series -- 2.7. Sorry to say I agree with them.

[Hanahope]

I was fine with the ending, the bad people were being arrested, the family got lots of money, Cassie got fired,  Cooperman is stuck in a slowly dying body.  And the dog lived!  

 

Only Brittany was really screwed, but she dug her own grave.

 

McBrides final jury argument wasn’t really asking for jury nullification, he did say that he only needed 51%, and the defense didn’t put in much of a case, they just tried to discredit the plaintiff witnesses and blame their head lawyer.

 

i do think juries don’t like it when they know they’re not getting the full story, like with Karl.

[Hanahope]

So the reason they had to frame Julio was because the target of the hit was the blonde drug delivery kid who saw the long haired real estate broker with Tom.  But the cartel wanted everyone to think it was the gang being hit, and they only motive they could think of was Julio avenging his brothers and the blonde kid was just collateral damage.  Otherwise the non corrupt cops would investigate why someone wanted the blonde kid killed.

 

Janet was with Billy at the kidnap house because he was hanging all over her at the bar and the cartel guys didn’t want to make a scene separating them so they took her along too.  Plus they may not have know if Billy told her anything.  Now why he wasn’t already dead is a good question other than plot contrivances.

 

More later

[Hanahope]

I think Marisol did like Billy, but he became a liability.  Same with Julio.  Maybe they had to wait to kill Billy until after Marisol won the election, or at least until there want time for him to mess it up.

Marisol liked her “brother” (and I’m sure his parents-cartel killed her parents), but he was obsessed with her.  She needed him to be mayor and he needed her for business.

 Gabriel mutilated people as a punishment and warning.  They are always seen, unlike someone just being killed and no longer seen.

[Hanahope]

Because of what Brit did in season 1

[Hanahope]

Marisol did look over 40, she had wrinkles around her eyes and mouth, so not too too far from BBT (22 years in real like between the actors).

 

i too was a bit confused over Tom's fantasy thing with how the women were always awake and ready to perform whenever he showed up. 

[Irlandesa]

Goliath was renewed for a third season.  It looks to have an intriguing cast in the third season.  Unfortunately, it's the same show runner as the second season with all the weird mess at the end.  I hope the ship is righted in the third.

[Hanahope]

On 12/12/2018 at 12:33 AM, Irlandesa said:

Goliath was renewed for a third season.  It looks to have an intriguing cast in the third season.  Unfortunately, it's the same show runner as the second season with all the weird mess at the end.  I hope the ship is righted in the third.

especially since the second season had a pretty unsatisfactory ending.  

[dwmarch]

I just binge-watched both seasons of this show and while I enjoyed it, I found each season to be its own kind of show.

Season one was a typical David E. Kelly lawyer show with added swearing and T&A. I saw a lot of similarities to Boston Legal. There's the old white guy who runs the firm, a total creep who is somehow popular with the ladies. There were the typical number of female lawyers who wore skirts short enough to get them kicked out of any real courtroom in the land. There was a brilliant lawyer with a quirk and that quirk's tendency to come up at the worst possible time. The lawyers in the big firm were having a colorful variety of affairs with each other. There was even a lawyer living in a hotel, just as James Spader's Alan Shore lived in a hotel on Boston Legal. Very typical DEK fare, formulaic but a good formula nonetheless, the reason why he can make the same show over and over again and catch an audience every time. The ending was the same as any number of episodes where an impassioned speech to the jury results in the good guys winning and punitive damages for a ridiculous amount.

Season two, well I am not sure what that was at all. A crime drama featuring a lawyer I suppose. It was much different and way gorier. I can only assume the plot in the season sets up the intricacies of next season because nothing much was resolved. The characters spent a lot of time just treading water, waiting for things to happen.

While season one probably had its fair share of nitpicks, nothing really stood out to me beyond "why would the young beautiful lawyer happily hop in the shower with the creepy old man?" But even in that case we could speculate that this is a known and accepted means within the firm of climbing the corporate ladder, since they did show that his inner circle had two other women who had done the same. Season two had some strangeness that had no reasonable explanation. Why didn't the cop with the family warn anyone that his partner was in on it and why didn't they figure that out or ask him about it? You catch the guy up to some nefarious deeds and never think to go to his partner and/or check him out? Why did Gabriel hand Billy over to the most incompetent criminals in all of Mexico? The dude is a cartel boss and a surgeon but he can't make one guy disappear? But at the same time he can kidnap a billionaire and mutilate the hell out of the guy without worrying about blowback from his sister? The bad guy insists that a kid has to be killed to cover up a murder but has no problem providing someone in another country with amputees for his fetish? This same bad guy also has a bunch more people killed and mutilated (Marisol's poor assistant, fuck that was harsh!) including three cops and a family but it's super urgent to cover up the first murder because it makes his sister look bad for supporting the patsy? Marisol should look worse for all of her passionate campaigning on behalf of the innocent kid who ended up "confessing" and "committing suicide" but she still wins the election. The bad guys didn't want the blonde kid getting investigated because it would lead back to them but we see that the police are completely ineffective and incompetent the whole way and the bad guys end up killing each other in fits of paranoia. It was a lot of bad people doing bad stuff for bad reasons.

[palmaire]

Yeah, say what you will about Kelly, the guy knows how to craft TV episodes. Season 2 was almost unwatchable without him; I only dipped in here and there to see if it was getting any better. Really a waste of compelling characters and good acting.

I won't be watching season 3 unless the trailers and critical reviews indicate a return to season 1 form.

[Irlandesa]

The new season is coming this Friday and it has been so low key that I only knew it was coming because I looked to see what was coming to Amazon in October.

There is a promo and if this is what the season is about, I'm hoping it'll be a return to the Season 1 vibe versus Season 2.

[lynxfx]

I've only watched the first episode but looks like they turned up the weird again. I have no clue what they are going for but I keep watching for Billy Bob. 

[Irlandesa]

5 minutes ago, lynxfx said:

I've only watched the first episode but looks like they turned up the weird again. I have no clue what they are going for but I keep watching for Billy Bob. 

At least it's a different kind of weird from last year.  I found much of it amusing.

But I've seen two episodes and I'm kind of confused whether some stuff actually happened or was just part of a hallucination.  Hopefully further episodes will clarify things.

[dwmarch]

One episode in and it's good so far. Very sinister vibe to this season. I hope that can be maintained rather than going for body horror like last season.

Of all the characters to bring back, why Mrs. Stabnuts? Unless that is going to pay off somehow...

Some very whimsical stuff going on here. The musical number was weird but I liked it. The random goat was also strange.

The bad guys seem familiar with Billy and seem to think he's been there before. And they're prepared to go pretty far in messing with him if he just showed up. Are we getting into a time travel plot here?

[Bannon]

I've enjoyed aspects of this show, especially season 1, but I found the surreal stuff in episodes 1 and 2 this season incredibly tedious. I think I'll wait on the rest of the season until I see some reviews.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I've only watched the first episode so far but wow, I didn't know Dennis Quaid was in this season. And Jeff Beau Bridges. BBT is bringing the big guns.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu
d'oh

[Joimiaroxeu]

Two episodes in.

Lol, for a minute there during that toaster on the bathtub scene I was wondering whether I was watching Goliath or Why Women Kill. Was that some kind of incestuous sex kink?

They're not being very subtle about referencing Blue Diamond, huh?

[Prevailing Wind]

9 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

And Jeff Bridges

Beau. That was Beau Bridges in Ep. 1.

I did NOT recognize Griffin Dunne.

...on to ep. 2 for me.

[Irlandesa]

I finished the season. For those worried about being spoiled, I'll mostly focus on my feelings about the season and any reference to events will be pretty vague for now. 

I felt this season was a solid step up from Season 2 if only because the resolution felt more cathartic.  Last season I felt like watching was a waste because it only ended in frustration.  This season, there were answers. In fact, if it weren't for the the weird hallucination trips in the first half of the season (this both kind of goes somewhere and equally goes nowhere) I might even put it on par with season 1 which fell apart for me once it hit the last two episodes.

Even though the hallucinations fade away, this season as a whole was still quite a trip.  Some days the tone felt like some combination of Get Out and Homecoming mixed with Goliath.  Then there was the cast.  Small parts were played by recognizable actors.  Familiar faces returned.  It made me wonder if this was going to be the final season because of some of the choices they made for returns.  But then the show kind of ends on a cliffhanger.  Maybe?  I guess it would depend on the interpretation. 

I missed the dog, though.

[Prevailing Wind]

I finished ep 2 and was cracking up during the driving while hallucinating scene. When watching #1 & Quaid has the singing hallucination, I thought of Dean Stockwell in Blue Velvet...THEN in #2, they actually used the same song as Stockwell, Roy Orbison's "In Dreams."  Now I'm waiting for Isabella Rosselini to show up...or a detached ear.

[Lemons]

1 hour ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I finished ep 2 and was cracking up during the driving while hallucinating scene. When watching #1 & Quaid has the singing hallucination, I thought of Dean Stockwell in Blue Velvet...THEN in #2, they actually used the same song as Stockwell, Roy Orbison's "In Dreams."  Now I'm waiting for Isabella Rosselini to show up...or a detached ear.

Definitely thinking of David Lynch while watching some scenes. They aren’t being too subtle about copying him. 

[Mindthinkr]

I’ve begun my binge. Definitely some weird stuff going on. In episode one...what were they smoking? It looked like pot, but their reactions reminded me more of opium. Ive never heard of marijuana giving someone hallucinations. 

[HollyG]

22 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

I’ve begun my binge. Definitely some weird stuff going on. In episode one...what were they smoking? It looked like pot, but their reactions reminded me more of opium. Ive never heard of marijuana giving someone hallucinations. 

I was thinking it was peyote, but I'm not sure. 

[Lao]

Just started watching season 3 on Amazon. Who else is watching?

[HollyG]

1 hour ago, Lao said:

Just started watching season 3 on Amazon. Who else is watching?

I'm on episode 3. I'm finding it harder to get into than previous seasons. It might be the surreal scenes. I will watch more later today.

[Mindthinkr]

I just finished the series, a half bag of cheddar goldfish and a packet of Peanut M&M’s. I won’t put too much here as not to spoil it for anyone, but the bathroom scene in E8 had me on the edge of my seat. I did think it was much better than season 2. 

[Prevailing Wind]

I agree - that bathroom scene was way tense. But who the hell eats toast in a bathtub?

[Mindthinkr]

4 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I agree - that bathroom scene was way tense. But who the hell eats toast in a bathtub?

I think that it was some kind of sexual foreplay. I almost thought that they were going towards incest in a few of the scenes. It seems as though the toast in the tub was some kind of sick ritual with them. 

Spoiler

Trust me I won’t kill you, until I do  

[Pike Ludwell]

Just finished episode 4 of season 3, and I find the surrealism/Twin Peaks stuff boring here (but l liked Twin Peaks). I am hoping that stuff is greatly minimized in the 2nd half of the season. 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Pike Ludwell

[Joimiaroxeu]

Wonder if BBT is done with Goliath now or if he'll come back with a fourth season? I don't know what the point was of showing

Spoiler

Billy still alive at the end (or was he a ghost?)

if it wasn't meant to be a cliffhanger. I'm thinking it'll be safe for him to return to LA now. Or maybe he'll head up the coast a bit.

[Prevailing Wind]

8 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

  Hide contents

if it wasn't meant to be a cliffhanger. I'm thinking it'll be safe for him to return to LA now. Or maybe he'll head up the coast a bit.

Re your spoiler:

Spoiler

He had to live long enough at least to see his reflection and they showed us that because the last person you'll see before you die is yourself.

...or whatever that quote was.

[Joimiaroxeu]

9 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Re your spoiler:

  Reveal spoiler

He had to live long enough at least to see his reflection and they showed us that because the last person you'll see before you die is yourself.

...or whatever that quote was.

That quote was meaningless to me because it's generally not true. Then to contrive a moment to make it seem true just piles onto the absurdity, IMO. But if that was meant to signal the end of the series, whatever. I hope not though because I can see a fourth season working now that certain problems from earlier seasons (e.g., Marisol) have been dealt with. (Seems like a real long shot however since this season appears to have been widely loathed.)

[Mindthinkr]

6 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

That quote was meaningless to me because it's generally not true. Then to contrive a moment to make it seem true just piles onto the absurdity, IMO. But if that was meant to signal the end of the series, whatever. I hope not though because I can see a fourth season working now that certain problems from earlier seasons (e.g., Marisol) have been dealt with. (Seems like a real long shot however since this season appears to have been widely loathed.)

Widely loathed? That’s news to me. Slightly off topic, but I remember True Detective S1 being good. S2 not so much, but then it came back in S3. That’s kind of how I see Goliath. I thought that they redeemed it from S2 and would be watching another season if they filmed it. I wonder that the reason some didn’t like it because it had some Erin Brockovitch vibes to it and the last episode tired it all up a bit too quickly/shoddily. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Check some other TV discussion forums besides this one. It's not pretty out there except seemingly among the solid BBT fans. I think people were largely put off by the ham-fisted homages to Twin Peaks and the drug stuff. Once Billy stopped getting drugged it almost became a new season. And I agree about the comparison to True Dectective. S3 of Goliath may not have delivered the redemption hoped for though.

Come on, BBT! Take one more swing at it.

[roughing it]

I just started watching season 3, about 4 episodes in.  Holy crap, it's like I'm watching Willy Wonka on LSD.  I'll stick it out to the end but this is freaky weird.

[Armchair Critic]

Just finished season 3. This show does a great job with casting, the only person I don't think fits is the daughter. I just can't warm up to the actress so it makes me not care about the character.

[Prevailing Wind]

5 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Just finished season 3. This show does a great job with casting, the only person I don't think fits is the daughter. I just can't warm up to the actress so it makes me not care about the character.

She's no Maddie Bosch, that's for sure.

[roughing it]

4 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Maddie Bosch

That's our next binge - Bosch.  Hope we like it.

[Armchair Critic]

I noticed they used a song from Tex Ritter, the father of John Ritter who was BBT's friend. Also liked how he used his friend Dwight Yoakam in season 1.

[Prevailing Wind]

11 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I noticed they used a song from Tex Ritter, the father of John Ritter who was BBT's friend. Also liked how he used his friend Dwight Yoakam in season 1.

I noticed that, too.

BBT was friends with Warren Zevon and Johnny Cash, too. All 3 died the same week - Zevon on Sunday, Ritter and Cash on Friday. I felt so bad for BBT losing 3 friends like that. He met Zevon when they lived in the same apartment building - they bonded over their OCD, opening and closing the mailbox multiple times to make sure they'd retrieved ALL the mail.  ("Oh, you have that, too?")

[Irlandesa]

Goliath is renewed for a fourth and final season.  I'd say this means he must survive the gunshot...but with some of the bizarre turns of last season, I wouldn't be surprised if he's a ghost haunting Patty during a case.

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/11/goliath-renewed-for-fourth-and-final.html#

[Armchair Critic]

6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Goliath is renewed for a fourth and final season

YAY, glad we get another season!!!  I will watch BBT in just about anything and I love Patty and Marva.

[Ottis]

Finished season 3, comments below first with no spoilers, then with spoilers with a warning.

No spoilers ... the Native American-sourced drug use and hallucinations were annoying. What was the point? The Texas bros needed it for ideas? Sad. And the goal with Billy was to ... what? It mostly felt like a way to kill some time through the season.

Also, because of its use, every time something seemed to happen, I wondered if it was actually happening or it was a hallucination.

SPOILERS below ...

Spoiler

BBT is fascinating to watch, and I love his Goliath character. But basically, he won the day because ... a recording happened to exist, and he and his team happened to find it. Aside from being tenacious, Billy's skill was irrelevant. That was disappointing.

Also, winning $1 million each is not "having money." Those people are going to have to move, so they have to buy a whole new house and/or land, and pay the expense of moving. That alone is at least $500,000 unless they for some reason choose to downsize. And they will still be saddled with their old properties, and any responsibilities tied to them. And they may have bills to pay from what they have suffered. So I didn't see this as a great victory, certainly not the way they depicted the grateful town residents. So ... well done?

And the appearance of Donald .... what was that about? Does he exist only to ruin Billy? And then he goes back to his lair?

Now, I did enjoy the Blackwell brother/sister, their toaster games, and what was clearly either mental illness or a megalomaniac need to control others to win. And the two sons/brothers were intriguing. They had something there that would have been fun to explore further, and just leave the casino and the drugs out of it.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Ottis
Sort of spoilery

[LeDucDiableBleu]

On 11/13/2019 at 9:57 PM, Armchair Critic said:

I noticed they used a song from Tex Ritter, the father of John Ritter who was BBT's friend. Also liked how he used his friend Dwight Yoakam in season 1.

Also John Ritter's son Jason Ritter was in Season 1 as an FBI agent.

[Anela]

I'm having trouble getting into this. I watched the first episode last October, which didn't help. 

[roughing it]

It took me about 3 episodes to get into it, but then I was hooked and watched all of them over a course of a couple weeks.  And with any show, you have to suspend belief a bit (especially season 3).  It's not just BBT, but the entire cast that makes this show.  Anxious for season 4.

[Anela]

"I've been running around in Satan's dusty ass crack!" LOL! I love Patty.

I've just finished this season. It was a little weird in places, and I'm tired of whacked rich people, but was happy to see them pay for their crimes in the end - literally and figuratively. I hope it's been renewed, for whenever they can start filming again. 

On 3/26/2020 at 10:33 AM, roughing it said:

It took me about 3 episodes to get into it, but then I was hooked and watched all of them over a course of a couple weeks.  And with any show, you have to suspend belief a bit (especially season 3).  It's not just BBT, but the entire cast that makes this show.  Anxious for season 4.

Thanks. 🙂 I'd already seen the first two seasons. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Anela

[Anela]

I also meant to add that I don't see why Maddie Bosch is any better than his daughter. She's given more to do, and Bosch has been airing longer. 

[msuvig]

I like Dennis Quaid, wish he and the crazed sister could stick around next season (whenever that is)!

[SunnyBeBe]

I just binge watched Season 1 and really liked it.  Which is surprising for a legal show. I tend to be pretty persnickety.  Looking forward to Season 2.