S01.E03: Dropping Bombs

[Cranberry]

While the CIU team vociferously disagrees among themselves whether the "bad guys" also deserve justice, they work to exonerate a political activist with questionable views. He is serving a life sentence for planting a bomb at a mosque that killed a prominent Imam and three worshippers. The re-examination of the case calls into question the NYPD's role which puts Hayes in Wallace's crosshairs. After a rigorous analysis of the evidence, the stunning conclusion to the case leaves one member of the team strongly dissatisfied with the outcome. Meanwhile, just as Hayes and Wallace seem to be getting cozy, they discover that their worst nightmare has been realized

[blugirlami21]

I actually really like this show but I'm tired of the episode formula that happens every single episode. Do we have to have Hayes pick the case out of an act of rebellion, flirt with the da, aggravate the team, have one of them threaten to walk out, solve the case, make out with the da, every episode?

I'm over Hayes having to tell the team to be objective during the case, the whole case. Just do your jobs. 

I also wish that they would drop the thing she has with Eddie Cahill, they have negative chemistry for me for some reason so her trying and failing to resist him the whole episode just annoys me.

The cases are interesting and the team members are developing depth. They all seem like screwups though despite how often they try to act like they're better than Hayes. 

I'll keep tuning in, hopefully the show will be given time to find its feet.

[Tiger]

The show on the whole is getting slightly better, but the male cast, especially Eddie Cahill, is getting worse.

Having a strong like Mike Doyle guesting only highlighted the problem.  Ashmore simply doesnt have the charisma  pull off a character that is supposed to simultaneously a good guy and do shady as shit stuff like spreading lies about a prisoner.  

And Cahill was just laughable.  Plus he has zero chemistry with Atwell.  She generates chemistry with everyone else, and same on Agent Carter and the movies, so its on him.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Tiger

[Pemyquid]

Um, I liked the line about not being superheroes or provocateurs as tongue in cheek allusions to Agent Carter. I think- I hope - it was intentionally snuck in there as a little wink at AC fans. 

Also, nice to see Beth from TWD, despite getting typecast. However, not a fan of any woman calling another a bitch, especially your boss in front of your coworkers. 

Miss the British accent, but like the actress and the show. Hope it gets some time to get found. If the network did any advertising, I didn't see it, and nearly missed this promising little show. 

[Free]

Quote

I actually really like this show but I'm tired of the episode formula that happens every single episode. Do we have to have Hayes pick the case out of an act of rebellion, flirt with the da, aggravate the team, have one of them threaten to walk out, solve the case, make out with the da, every episode?

I'm over Hayes having to tell the team to be objective during the case, the whole case. Just do your jobs. 

Agreed, they need to stop whining and enough of Hayes' romance.

[thuganomics85]

I wasn't quite sure what to make of this case.  Landon was clearly an awful, dangerous man and an extreme bigot, but if he was truly innocent of this particular crime, I'm not sure why the team was all offended that Hayes kept pushing to find out the truth.  Even if she had her own motives (sticking it to Connor... again), if there was the slight chance the killer was out there, did they just want that person to be free?  Sure, it ended up being the wife and she likely isn't as horrible as Landon is (granted, the fact she did it and was able to hang out with the other victims' wives is kind of slimy in itself), but what if had been another person just as bad or a future Landon in the making?  I get the frustration and even anger, but everyone acting like Hayes was the worst for wanting to do this was just too much.  Hayes may be a jerk almost all the time, but this entire team really is not professional.

Of course, everything more or less works out, with Landon still going away for good after Sam tells another inmate Landon's a snitch and Landon is force to shake him or something.  I wonder if that was actually Sam's plan or was he hoping the inmate might kill him? Either way, I guess it was suppose to be a big deal, but the Sam character is still kind of dull.  Iceman jokes aside, I like Shawn Ashmore enough, but I feel like I'm suppose to find this character to be a legit threat to Hayes and her position, but I can't see him getting there.  Maxine/Merrin Dungley would be more believable.

I guess Emily Kinney's character calling Hayes a bitch was suppose to be some growing moment for her, but it probably didn't help that right after she said, she suddenly looked scared, like thought Hayes was going to smack her.

I'm hoping Hayes and Conner already doing the dumb "make out because they still have feelings for each other, despite being toxic!", means that it will already be done with, especially since it has now been leaked that he got her the job right she got busted for cocaine.

[vibeology]

6 hours ago, blugirlami21 said:

I also wish that they would drop the thing she has with Eddie Cahill, they have negative chemistry for me for some reason so her trying and failing to resist him the whole episode just annoys me.

This. They do not work together. When they started making out, I found it repulsive. The longer the show centres around Hayes doing things to get a rise out of him, the less I like both of them. 

[Sakura12]

Paint by numbers is what I call every cop/medical show. The same thing happens every week with a similar result in the end. 

I also don't get why Hayes' team was all over for her continuing the case against the bigot. Yes he deserves to be jail, but so does the person that actually committed the crime they were investigating. Surprisingly she was the one actually doing her job. Their job is to see if the conviction was correct and it wasn't for that crime. 

I know she picked that case to stick it to the bland DA and that is getting annoying. She's not a teenager. Hopefully before this show gets cancelled we see Hayes mature as a person. 

So did Iceman rat her out or did the reporter get her info from someone else on the team or a third party?

[TheGreenWave]

So I normally watch Timeless during this time slot, but decided to give this a try.  Yeesh.  Wish I didn't.  Agree with all that Hayes and Cahill have zero chemistry, not to mention that completely awkward and inappropriate back-and-forth with the reporter in the beginning.  What was that??!  Also agree with the uncomfortable feelings on the resolution here.  Who the hell is Iceman to decide who gets to stay in prison, even if you think this guy is a horrible human being who may commit a crime in the future?!!?  I just can't get passed that - and I guess she can't fire two employees in one episode.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, TheGreenWave said:

So I normally watch Timeless during this time slot, but decided to give this a try.  Yeesh.  Wish I didn't....

I am currently watching Timeless live and this show and Scorpion later, which sort of implies that I rank this show with Scorpion.

[Free]

Quote

Paint by numbers is what I call every cop/medical show. The same thing happens every week with a similar result in the end. 

I also don't get why Hayes' team was all over for her continuing the case against the bigot. Yes he deserves to be jail, but so does the person that actually committed the crime they were investigating. Surprisingly she was the one actually doing her job. Their job is to see if the conviction was correct and it wasn't for that crime. 

Yeah, they made her the head of the CIU and then proceed to whine about it for doing her job.

[Netfoot]

I love Hayley Atwell / Hayes Morrison, and I know how great she can be when it comes to inter-personal chemistry (Edwin Jarvis) but there is just zero electron flux between her and that sssnake D.A. Wallissss.  Every time I see them in some tortured liplock, it gives me an aching pain behind my right eye!  

[Impish Dragon]

13 hours ago, Tiger said:

 Ashmore simply doesnt have the charisma  pull off a character that is supposed to simultaneously a good guy and do shady as shit stuff like spreading lies about a prisoner.  

I can't help comparing him to his brother.  Aaron Ashmore plays a good guy on Killjoys that can and has done shady things but he has a ton of charisma and is my favorite character on the show.   For me, Shawn is just there.  Not good, not bad.  Just...there.

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I wasn't quite sure what to make of this case.  Landon was clearly an awful, dangerous man and an extreme bigot, but if he was truly innocent of this particular crime, I'm not sure why the team was all offended that Hayes kept pushing to find out the truth.  Even if she had her own motives (sticking it to Connor... again), if there was the slight chance the killer was out there, did they just want that person to be free?  Sure, it ended up being the wife and she likely isn't as horrible as Landon is (granted, the fact she did it and was able to hang out with the other victims' wives is kind of slimy in itself), but what if had been another person just as bad or a future Landon in the making?  I get the frustration and even anger, but everyone acting like Hayes was the worst for wanting to do this was just too much.  Hayes may be a jerk almost all the time, but this entire team really is not professional.

I guess Emily Kinney's character calling Hayes a bitch was suppose to be some growing moment for her, but it probably didn't help that right after she said, she suddenly looked scared, like thought Hayes was going to smack her.

I'm hoping Hayes and Conner already doing the dumb "make out because they still have feelings for each other, despite being toxic!", means that it will already be done with, especially since it has now been leaked that he got her the job right she got busted for cocaine.

I think the writers were going for a moral superiority thing, trying to show Hayes isn't quite the good guy yet.  *shrugs*  I just kept thinking, this is what you signed up for people.  It wasn't like it came as a surprise that they might get bad guys convictions overturned.  It's stated in this ep that this isn't the Innocence Project.  It's the Conviction Integrity Unit.  

I did like Atwell's reaction after EK's character called her a bitch.  It was simultaneously surprised, impressed, and proud. 

I thought Hayes and Conner had a wee bit better chemistry this ep, but yeah, the writers need to let go of this relationship stat.

[romantic idiot]

I really liked this episode. It was interesting, showcased some different points of view, and I did think Hayley and Cahill finally displayed some friendship chemistry which they'll need for a sustained relationship to work. I think they are going with the rebellion thing to link the cases to Hayes personally, to explain her interest, so once she's more settled into the job, it should stop. 

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I'm hoping Hayes and Conner already doing the dumb "make out because they still have feelings for each other, despite being toxic!", means that it will already be done with, especially since it has now been leaked that he got her the job right she got busted for cocaine.

I don't think they are going for toxic. They are fighting right now, but the set up is that the 2 of them are good for each. She's bring out his non-political side and he'll be a steadying influence. Cahill's role almost gives me some Mr. Knightly feel gins right now. 

5 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I also don't get why Hayes' team was all over for her continuing the case against the bigot. Yes he deserves to be jail, but so does the person that actually committed the crime they were investigating. Surprisingly she was the one actually doing her job. Their job is to see if the conviction was correct and it wasn't for that crime. 

I think the concern was that they've be in a lose-lose situation. Their job began and ended with Landon, so the outcome of establishing Landon's wrongful conviction was that a racist, bigoted self proclaimed terrorist and genocidal maniac would go free, but no actual murderer would b e found. 

5 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

Also agree with the uncomfortable feelings on the resolution here.  Who the hell is Iceman to decide who gets to stay in prison, even if you think this guy is a horrible human being who may commit a crime in the future?!!?  I just can't get passed that - and I guess she can't fire two employees in one episode.

He didn't keep the man in jail though. Landon's true colours showed. I am not sure innocent men would knife others in jail. Especially soldiers who presumably would know to defend themselves hand to hand. 

2 hours ago, Impish Dragon said:

I did like Atwell's reaction after EK's character called her a bitch.  It was simultaneously surprised, impressed, and proud. 

I thought both Kinney and Atwell hit that moment spot on. She's a bright eyed rookie, she nerved herself up to use the bitch word to make a point, used it and then couldn't help but worry that she'd gone too far. And Atwell was understanding. I do like how Atwell is making Hayes warm, despite the coldness Hayes would like to think she has. 

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, Impish Dragon said:

It's stated in this ep that this isn't the Innocence Project.  It's the Conviction Integrity Unit.  

Then it's high time they drive this point home by finding that their Case-of-the-Week was guilty!

[sjohnson]

This episode had blatant wrongdoing by the police turn out to provide proof of criminality that couldn't be used in court because of a technicality. And they had the dude confess on screen to boot. And they made sure a character said it was all bad cops, and they were fired, and literally "the system worked." I wish. They're not committing to the premise that conviction integrity that finds the conviction had no integrity can't really happen because the system is riddled with problems, including police who don't really care if they get the right guy. The problem is that if they confirm most cases (which is what most of these units do) is boring. This episode loaded the dice so badly they couldn't even allow themselves to permit a new trial! The dude's not a supervillain, getting out doesn't mean there's going to be a crime. Especially when he didn't even have the self-discipline to keep from confessing his plans already!

As for Hayley Atwell's bad girl routine? Sorry, leaves me cold. Shawn Ashmore's smug face watching her get the news was much badder than any of the shit she's pulled. Know that's a very different view from most, but that's the way it hits me. 

Merrin Dungey seems very lively and intense, but I'm not really getting the character. The closest to making sense for me was when she said she wasn't going to half-ass the job, but to be honest, I'm not sure that's what she's doing. All that squawking in the room is pretty half-assed to me. 

The nobility of the police and the integrity of the criminal justice system and their awesome mad skillz is such a staple that a series that remotely approached real life could be a refreshing break. This is just kind of shifty pretend edgy, mostly about the tedious Hayes Morrison. Glad I'm saving this for Hulu next day, the commercials would kill this feeble beast.

Sorry, my view. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by sjohnson

[zxy556575]

This is my favorite of the new Fall shows, but my minor complaint is Atwell's acting. Watching Hugh Laurie in House, I believed he was a functioning addict. I don't feel the same about Hayes; she comes off as too together and smart, in an upper class boarding school way, to be someone who has supposedly hit bottom. She also didn't strike the right note of spite and meanness in the early episodes; to me she seemed like the wholesome girl next door tossing off petty insults she read in a slam book. I do think she has sexual chemistry with Conner, though.

[TVHappy9463]

I need more scenes with Hailey Atwell and Eddie Cahill. 

The show is coming together, but I could see some tweaks necessary to get a full season pick up.  The premise is solid, but the procedural part seems weak and the cases lack punch.  The production design is missing something  everything looks like she set  it's missing warmth  

if they can get this right it can be a steady performer  

[LakeGal]

I tried to like this show.  But it wasn't worth the effort.  I turned it off during this episode.  I am done.

[romantic idiot]

9 hours ago, lordonia said:

This is my favorite of the new Fall shows, but my minor complaint is Atwell's acting. Watching Hugh Laurie in House, I believed he was a functioning addict. I don't feel the same about Hayes; she comes off as too together and smart, in an upper class boarding school way, to be someone who has supposedly hit bottom. She also didn't strike the right note of spite and meanness in the early episodes; to me she seemed like the wholesome girl next door tossing off petty insults she read in a slam book. I do think she has sexual chemistry with Conner, though.

I don't think Heyes has hit bottom though. She's not an addict for sure. And I don't understand why she's supposed to be spiteful and mean? She's someone whose still 'rebelling' and hiding from the box she was put in by leaving it all out there, but I think she's supposed to be a good egg. It struck me that Hayes is someone who needs direction, not redemption. 

[MissLucas]

I wasn't sure about this after the pilot but this episode sold me. Yes, ultimately this is a paint-by-the-numbers procedural with some added serialized personal drama. And there's nothing wrong with that. I don't mind Hayes being an ass with self-destructive tendencies - tv land is full of non-controversial female characters. Having someone who's not universally likeable from the get go is refreshing.

But the romance with Wallace needs to end. Hopefully the last scene marked the sinking of that ship. It drags the show down.

I like Spencer (could be residual love for the other Ashmore). Hayes keeps needling him but he manages to keep his cool yet in the end he made sure that what he thought was right did prevail. It's an interesting dynamic because from the outside it looks as if he would be the straight shooter who always places principle first and Hayes was the wild gun who would bend the rules for what she considers right - yet in this case at least it was the opposite.

[romantic idiot]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

But the romance with Wallace needs to end. Hopefully the last scene marked the sinking of that ship. It drags the show down.

I actually don't mind Wallace so far. The history they have alluded to seems to be interesting. 

[Texasmom1970]

I really loved the black dress Hayley was wearing at the start of the episode. Unfortunately I do not have the curves to fill out a dress like that. 

I can't believe little ole Beth said bitch. Aww she's grown up since "The Walking Dead."

The case of the week was just kind of okay to me.

If anyone knows the song at the end of the episode where Hayes and the D.A. start making out please post who it is. I am obsessed with getting it!

[MissLucas]

On 18.10.2016 at 10:20 PM, Netfoot said:

Then it's high time they drive this point home by finding that their Case-of-the-Week was guilty!

One of the three guys in episode 2 was guilty and they managed to prove it.

[cynic]

I can't help comparing him to his brother.  Aaron Ashmore plays a good guy on Killjoys that can and has done shady things but he has a ton of charisma and is my favorite character on the show.   For me, Shawn is just there.  Not good, not bad.  Just...there.

I can't stop myself from comparing them too. I flove Aaron Ashmore on Killjoys. This guy does nothing for me. I'm hoping he grows on me as time goes on and his character develops.  In contrast, Aaron had me within minutes in Killjoys pilot when he smiled with bloodied teeth while being beaten.

I am starting to like Merrin's character , the guy who almost quit,  and even Beth (despite hating her on TWD, I hope she never sings here). 

I even like the Da guy and am interested in his relationship with Hayes. (I'll just be over here at my table for one.)

Hayes herself is still a little hit or miss for me, both in writing and acting.  (I didn't like Agent Carter either,  so maybe Atwell just isn't my taste.) 

At least her brother didn't appear in this one.  For some reason,  he totally bugs me.

I do think I'm in for the season.  It's fine for a mindless procedural

[sinkwriter]

Quote

 Who the hell is Iceman to decide who gets to stay in prison, even if you think this guy is a horrible human being who may commit a crime in the future?!!?

Isn't that what the conflict of character was all about? Knowing that the "right" thing to do (getting this wretched man out of prison because he didn't commit this murder) isn't always a good thing to do? They all know it's their job to do this, but they don't have to like it every time. I liked seeing the conflict on Hayes' face when she knew they were going to have to let that man out of prison - she acted all breezy about it with her staff but as soon as she strode off into the hallway, her entire demeanor changed to say, "Oh shit... why did I have to push so hard to do this case just to prove I could? Now I've gotten a terrible man out of prison and he could turn around and kill a hell of a lot more than 5 people. He wants to do this. He's threatened to do it. This is horrible. What have I done?"

And that's really the point. Yes, the guy didn't kill those 5 men, so he doesn't deserve to go to prison for it. But he's far from an innocent victim and the conflict lies in getting him out of prison. At least in prison he wasn't likely to do much more than spout off his ugly diatribes. But before he went to prison, he was test-building bombs and he was planning to kill people with those bombs. He just hadn't done it yet. So the terror comes in knowing that they had to let this guy go free -- if he then turns around and makes good on his threats and kills many, many Muslims, then they've played a big role in helping him do that. Thankfully, the guy did something stupid that kept him in prison, but that's not usually the case. Of course it's important to have these judicial rules in place. But it's still scary when murderers or rapists get freed on technicalities, because there's a big chance they'll do it again. 

[sinkwriter]

Actually, in seeing Hayes' reaction (and the worries of the rest of the staff as well), I expected that guy to get out of prison and turn around and set off a bomb that would kill a lot of people, and they'd all feel guilty for helping to set the guy free. I expected the final scene of the episode to be Hayes getting a phone call that the guy had killed a bunch of people not long after he'd gotten out. This would show that her need to be provocative and contrary, pushing back anytime someone tells her she can't do something, would be the thing that eventually forces her to change or it would be her own downfall. Bit by bit, starting with this case. 

What was extra chilling was when he told Iceman that he knew to be extra careful this time around with everything he did and said, so that he could get away with it when he did finally set off some bombs. The idea of him getting out and getting away with anything that horrific sickened me. So I definitely related to everyone on the staff and how they struggled with what they were doing with this case.

[sjohnson]

Four things: Being innocent of the charge he was convicted for doesn't really seem like a mere technicality. And I often wonder how often serious issues are dismissed as obstructions to the heroes who can see into a man's soul and predict the future?

 Also, the dude didn't even have the freaking discipline not to announce his intentions! That guy just isn't going to get away with it, this is not a comic book supervillain.

Client privilege does not protect their communication to their lawyers of intent to commit a crime. If I understand it correctly, the lawyers are duty bound as officers of the court to report such terroristic threats to the police. And the laws get a little fuzzy but terrorist threats can be charged as crimes in themselves I think, although the conviction isn't necessarily a slam dunk. The real issue with this guy is the sympathy cops and a lot of ordinary citiziens would feel for him. The show writes the prosecutor and policewoman as all furious at him, but let's face it, that's trying to make the main cast sympathetic, not realistic.

The prosecutor (CIU second in command!) did try to get the guy killed and his success in defending his life was strictly script miracle to avoid the consequences.

[hilaryvm]

I really want to like this show.  I like the actors, particularly Hayley Atwell and Eddie Cahill, but man alive is the writing terrible.  First of all, at some point, you would think Hayes would have grown up a little bit.  As it is, she literally makes every decision based on what someone tells her not to do, or on whether she can get a rise out of someone for doing it.  Most people grow out of that in their teens.

 

Then, the lawyers just don't talk or act like lawyers.  I am a lawyer, and I get that there is some degree of explaining to the audience happening, but their conversations are just not realistic at all.  The fact that some were wanting to drop the case because the guy was bad, even though he might be innocent?  Not super realistic to me.

[Sakura12]

Only Hayes and Iceman are lawyers. Maxine's a former cop, the other guy is forensics and I think Beth may be a paralegal? 

Edited November 2, 2016 by Sakura12