Questions and Speculations

[leejaneagles]

Hi all, new to the forum and this is my first post. Had to join as Westworld really got my imagination going.

I guess this topic will have questions that can only give speculation than answers at this point but hey that's half the fun! I'm not one to be greedy and as the title suggests, you can add your own 'little' questions to this topic if you wish. It's not really those big game changing questions like 'Is so and so a robot?' or 'What is at the center of the maze?' but more those niggly ones that you'd love a proper answer for.

I'll start: In the movie, the main character is charged with murder and taken to prison. It makes sense, there are Sheriff's and law-enforcement bots all over the park. I'd assume this can also happen in the TV series. In the movie, his best friend sneaks in a stick of dynamite and blows him out of prison. What if he was completely alone?

There are a couple of things that need to be assumed for this to be a problem. Obviously you CAN shoot your way out of most situations, killing the Sheriff or just flat out refusing to go to prison. However, I don't think it's out of the realms of possiblity for an inexperienced Guest to be a little shaken up by getting arrested at first, a terrifying experience unless you're a hardened criminal. So, let's say the Sheriff stops the Guest, in a panic the Guest hands over all weapons and allows himself to be cuffed and taken to the jail cell (not harmed, just loosely cuffed and marched to the cell. The Sheriff, thinking he's a real law enforcement officer and not a Bot would properly lock the door, properly remove anything that could be used to escape and not necessarily keep engaging with the guest. He could leave the jail house to go on patrol or interact with other Guests etc.

So my question - what would happen? This is 40'000 dollars a day. Okay, there are super-rich people that go on 2 week vacations yearly but you'd have to assume a majority of guests scrimp and save for a one day taste of this virtual reality. Even if you were there for a long weekend you'd be miffed if one of your three days was inside a prison. I know the Bots reset every night and you'd inevitably be let out during 'down time' but you have to be fully immersed for a day and if you didn't have a friend or anyone capable of starting a scenario on your behalf - sneaking in a key/gun/dynamite/bribing Sheriff etc you are properly screwed. Refunds all round or a free day pass for The Guest do we think?

 

Second niggly question - following on from that point about all Bots resetting every night and the clean up crews coming in - Is there a curfew for Guests as I distinctly remember them saying there are no guidelines or rule books. It wouldn't make much sense to enforce a curfew in a world you can rape and murder as you please but what happens if you fancy an all nighter?

I'm an insomniac (currently typing all these questions buzzing around my head at midnight when I have to be up for work in a few hours). I rarely sleep at conventional times and whenever I go on vacation I am usually in bed 'til midday and stay up all night until around 5am the following day. If I spent 40k on Westworld and was standing in a bar having a great night, 3 lovely ladies on my arm, Cowboy drinking buddies and a whole lot of whiskey and suddenly at 1am say everyone around me shut down and clean up teams strolled in I wouldn't be very happy. 

It doesn't just have to be meaningless drunk all-nighters either. What if you've spent 12 hours riding into the wilderness on a treasure hunt, will your robot companions reset at the specified time (again 1am for sake of argument) and wake up the next day with no recollection of the treasure hunt and having to start all over again.

We've already seen in just 2 episodes that men have a soft spot for Dolores in a different way than the prostitutes. Surely not ALL the men go there for meaningless sex with hookers. Even if it's kinda sad and lonely to think about, a lot of rich but lonely men must go there for the fake feeling of falling in love. Obviously once their vacation is over the robot would be reset and they couldn't continue it a year later but there must be a call for being able to build relationships over your 2 week vacation. 

Imagine picking up the can for Dolores and noticing a spark. You don't immediately say come to my bedroom, you have a little flirt, maybe arrange to take her to dinner the next night, then go on a few mountain adventures with her for the week before finally doing your business. That can't happen on a 24 hour cycle.

 

Sorry, all petty and probably unanswerable questions I know but hopefully get some creative responses. Also sorry for length of post, hope it didn't bore you!

Edited October 12, 2016 by SilverStormm
Made the title clearer

[CofCinci]

I haven't been this excited to speculate on a series since the beginning days of LOST!

Bernard - Bot.

Elsie - She's not a new technician.  She's a guest.

William = Younger Man In Black.

When MiB drags Dolores into the barn, it's not to torture/rape her but for something else.

Edited October 12, 2016 by CofCinci

[snowwhyte]

I'm wondering about the world outside. I think it's possible most of the natural world has been destroyed. Maybe horses are extinct. The family in the first episode seemed rather excited about a horse. Although if that was the case i would assume there would be more virtual ecotourism rather than just a Western theme world.

[djsunyc]

3 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

I'm wondering about the world outside. I think it's possible most of the natural world has been destroyed. Maybe horses are extinct. The family in the first episode seemed rather excited about a horse. Although if that was the case i would assume there would be more virtual ecotourism rather than just a Western theme world.

there's a theory going around that this isn't even on earth.  which would give new meaning to the word "westworld".  all the creators and employees live there as well.  people also noticed the "delos" globe from one of the levels of headquarters had continents not shaped like ours.  

Edited October 12, 2016 by djsunyc

[snowwhyte]

Yeah, they all seem to live on site and rotate out. I've been picturing it as an island but it could be an off world location. 

[withanaich]

18 hours ago, leejaneagles said:

Even if you were there for a long weekend you'd be miffed if one of your three days was inside a prison. I know the Bots reset every night and you'd inevitably be let out during 'down time' but you have to be fully immersed for a day and if you didn't have a friend or anyone capable of starting a scenario on your behalf - sneaking in a key/gun/dynamite/bribing Sheriff etc you are properly screwed. Refunds all round or a free day pass for The Guest do we think?

I think at that point they'd come up with another scenario to get the guest out. One of the hosts who's also in jail stages a prison break, or something like that. I'm a bit curious about what happens when a guest is seriously injured or killed. Even if everything is as safe as it can be (which doesn't seem very safe, to be honest), what if someone breaks a leg? (Or contracts MRSA, come to think of it?) Are there hosts with some kind of modern medical programming embedded in them? Or do the employees re-program them on the fly (the way they did when they instructed the other hooker to take over for Maeve) so they can have the same level of awareness as the host in the changing room, and escort the injured/sick guest out of the park?

I'm not sure that everything is resetting every night, because if guests are in the middle of a quest or just having fun at 1 am, that wouldn't really make sense. It seems like they try to avoid coming in to re-set things or clean up unless they absolutely have to. I suppose that's why there are people in management who are reluctant to pull hosts even if they're malfunctioning, because that would really kill the immersive experience for guests who had been interacting with them. What I don't understand is why they don't just put out a new host with the same "face" on it but corrected programming, and destroy the old one. Either they're so expensive you're reluctant to completely trash even the wonkiest ones, or they're so cheap to replace that you don't care if your guests go on a "killing" spree. Which one is it?

Quote

Maybe horses are extinct. The family in the first episode seemed rather excited about a horse. 

There are plenty of people who have never been that close to a horse, and would be excited to see one in real life that they knew was gentle enough to pet like a puppy. I think if horses were extinct, we'd see a lot more guests excited to see them when they get off the train.

[ennui]

I'm still puzzling over Maeve's MRSA infection and how she could feel pain. My speculation is that there are human elements to the androids. Maybe these were humans who were dying, and donated their bodies in the interest of immortality? It would also explain the memories. 

Maybe I've seen Soylent Green too many times.  "They're people!"

[jbrecken]

If all the animals in Westworld are robots, how do they keep birds out - does Westworld have a roof?  It would also explain how they avoid seeing airplanes.

[ennui]

I remember reading an article several years ago about Disneyland, and how they control the surrounding areas so that you can't see anything outside the park (buildings, power lines, etc.) That's one way they keep it "the happiest place on Earth." It's the same concept with casinos (no windows, no clocks).

Maybe Westworld is underground.

Edited October 12, 2016 by ennui

[Gobi]

If, as a popular theory has it, Westworld is on another planet, it would be easy to keep out animals or fly-overs by planes. If the planet had been terra-formed, it might not have any indigenous wildlife. The arrival of some insects would probably be inevitable, but anything  larger could be prevented.

[snowwhyte]

Am wondering, when the robots begin to develop true sentience and begin to remember past experiences, will they retain their current imprinted personality or form new ones based on an amalgamation of past experiences? Surely there would be internal conflict that would be difficult to reconcile when they remember multiple identities. Maybe the presumed conflict will not be between guests and newly sentient robots but between robots who are successfully able to form a cohesive identity and those broken by their conflicting memories and identities. That did seem to be what was affecting Delores father. I doubt that's the way they are going but it's fun to speculate.

[connieinnc]

23 hours ago, leejaneagles said:

 

I believe the train entering Sweetwater with guests starts the cycle/scenario and the hosts are not reset/reintroduced until the guest(s) leave.

[Maximum Taco]

23 hours ago, leejaneagles said:

Hi all, new to the forum and this is my first post. Had to join as Westworld really got my imagination going.

I guess this topic will have questions that can only give speculation than answers at this point but hey that's half the fun! I'm not one to be greedy and as the title suggests, you can add your own 'little' questions to this topic if you wish. It's not really those big game changing questions like 'Is so and so a robot?' or 'What is at the center of the maze?' but more those niggly ones that you'd love a proper answer for.

I'll start: In the movie, the main character is charged with murder and taken to prison. It makes sense, there are Sheriff's and law-enforcement bots all over the park. I'd assume this can also happen in the TV series. In the movie, his best friend sneaks in a stick of dynamite and blows him out of prison. What if he was completely alone?

There are a couple of things that need to be assumed for this to be a problem. Obviously you CAN shoot your way out of most situations, killing the Sheriff or just flat out refusing to go to prison. However, I don't think it's out of the realms of possiblity for an inexperienced Guest to be a little shaken up by getting arrested at first, a terrifying experience unless you're a hardened criminal. So, let's say the Sheriff stops the Guest, in a panic the Guest hands over all weapons and allows himself to be cuffed and taken to the jail cell (not harmed, just loosely cuffed and marched to the cell. The Sheriff, thinking he's a real law enforcement officer and not a Bot would properly lock the door, properly remove anything that could be used to escape and not necessarily keep engaging with the guest. He could leave the jail house to go on patrol or interact with other Guests etc.

So my question - what would happen? This is 40'000 dollars a day. Okay, there are super-rich people that go on 2 week vacations yearly but you'd have to assume a majority of guests scrimp and save for a one day taste of this virtual reality. Even if you were there for a long weekend you'd be miffed if one of your three days was inside a prison. I know the Bots reset every night and you'd inevitably be let out during 'down time' but you have to be fully immersed for a day and if you didn't have a friend or anyone capable of starting a scenario on your behalf - sneaking in a key/gun/dynamite/bribing Sheriff etc you are properly screwed. Refunds all round or a free day pass for The Guest do we think?

 

Second niggly question - following on from that point about all Bots resetting every night and the clean up crews coming in - Is there a curfew for Guests as I distinctly remember them saying there are no guidelines or rule books. It wouldn't make much sense to enforce a curfew in a world you can rape and murder as you please but what happens if you fancy an all nighter?

I'm an insomniac (currently typing all these questions buzzing around my head at midnight when I have to be up for work in a few hours). I rarely sleep at conventional times and whenever I go on vacation I am usually in bed 'til midday and stay up all night until around 5am the following day. If I spent 40k on Westworld and was standing in a bar having a great night, 3 lovely ladies on my arm, Cowboy drinking buddies and a whole lot of whiskey and suddenly at 1am say everyone around me shut down and clean up teams strolled in I wouldn't be very happy. 

It doesn't just have to be meaningless drunk all-nighters either. What if you've spent 12 hours riding into the wilderness on a treasure hunt, will your robot companions reset at the specified time (again 1am for sake of argument) and wake up the next day with no recollection of the treasure hunt and having to start all over again.

We've already seen in just 2 episodes that men have a soft spot for Dolores in a different way than the prostitutes. Surely not ALL the men go there for meaningless sex with hookers. Even if it's kinda sad and lonely to think about, a lot of rich but lonely men must go there for the fake feeling of falling in love. Obviously once their vacation is over the robot would be reset and they couldn't continue it a year later but there must be a call for being able to build relationships over your 2 week vacation. 

Imagine picking up the can for Dolores and noticing a spark. You don't immediately say come to my bedroom, you have a little flirt, maybe arrange to take her to dinner the next night, then go on a few mountain adventures with her for the week before finally doing your business. That can't happen on a 24 hour cycle.

 

Sorry, all petty and probably unanswerable questions I know but hopefully get some creative responses. Also sorry for length of post, hope it didn't bore you!

1) According to the website the minimum stay at Westworld is a week. So no worries about going for a day or three and winding up in jail. You gotta have enough cash to stay atleast a week.

2) I don't think the hosts are on a 24 hour hard set cycle. They don't have a set time to shut down, they just roll with the punches. If you want to hang out with them all night, they'll hang out with you all night (if it's in their character to do so.) If you don't want to they'll go to their own homes and go to sleep like a normal human person would. Also it doesn't seem like the hosts need a lot of maintenance unless they get injured or killed.

3) Narrative cycles can probably be variable also. If you strike up a spark with Dolores, then maybe she will be programmed to remember you until your stay at Westworld is over. I agree it would be jarring to the immersive aspect of Westworld if you met a host and they completely forgot you the next day. 

[ennui]

16 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

If you strike up a spark with Dolores, then maybe she will be programmed to remember you until your stay at Westworld is over. I agree it would be jarring to the immersive aspect of Westworld if you met a host and they completely forgot you the next day. 

Except Delores has been forgetting the MiB for thirty years; he seems like someone who would prefer that she remember him. He almost sounded hurt that she doesn't.

[Maximum Taco]

8 minutes ago, ennui said:

Except Delores has been forgetting the MiB for thirty years; he seems like someone who would prefer that she remember him. He almost sounded hurt that she doesn't.

The maximum stay at Westworld is 28 days.

So once you leave Westworld it would make sense for the hosts you interacted with to forget you. Teddy doesn't remember the guy who he showed around the last time he was there either.

The MiB hasn't BEEN in Westworld for 30 years, he's been COMING for 30 years. She probably forgets about the MiB, everytime his stay ends. When he says "Don't you remember me?" I don't think he's shocked or surprised or hurt. He's toying with her "You don't remember me, but I sure as hell remember you."

Also it probably goes without saying that if she "dies" she probably forgets all about that death and who caused it. If he kills her after he rapes her each time, that would also probably account for her forgetting him.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[ennui]

I understand that MiB has been visiting for 30 years, but in this current visit, Delores forgot him, as well. He kills Teddy, drags Delores off to the barn, and the next day she drops the can, MiB picks it up, and she doesn't seem to have any recognition. 

Theoretically, if MiB drags her off to the barn every night of his vacation, I'd have to wonder why it took thirty years for MiB to get bored with it. 

[Maximum Taco]

8 minutes ago, ennui said:

I understand that MiB has been visiting for 30 years, but in this current visit, Delores forgot him, as well. He kills Teddy, drags Delores off to the barn, and the next day she drops the can, MiB picks it up, and she doesn't seem to have any recognition. 

Theoretically, if MiB drags her off to the barn every night of his vacation, I'd have to wonder why it took thirty years for MiB to get bored with it. 

She went through a trauma.

They've already said they wipe their memories after they die, they probably wipe them after they get raped too.

It doesn't help to have hosts thinking about that stuff, they want her to be the innocent girl next door, that narrative isn't aided by her being a rape victim.

That's why she doesn't remember him the next day, she doesn't remember her dad and mom and Teddy dying, or the rape.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[Gobi]

Since Delores was either raped, tortured, killed, or all three by TMIB, it seems a given that she would have been reset, thus unable to recognize him the next day.

[Gobi]

I questioned the presence of MRSA, since Ford had said earlier that all diseases had been conquered. I can justify it with the theory that while illnesses such as MRSA still exist, they are easily cured. Otherwise, the risk of spreading STDs through host/human contact would be unacceptable. No one wants to spend $40K a day to get gonorrhea.

Another question is how long Westworld has been operating. The figure of 30 years has been given in an ambiguous way. "We've had 30 years without a major incident." could mean that it's been 30 years since a malfunction, or that it's been operating for 30 years.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Gobi
Content

[Terrafamilia]

It looked like Dolores reset every day. Once was after the bandit attack but it seemed like the others were routine. I suspect those were because she wasn't involved in an ongoing storyline at the time. I think that if someone had picked up her can of evaporated milk and introduced themselves with the intent of seeing where things would go they would become involved in such a storyline and that storyline would then play out in whatever time it took and things wouldn't reset until the storyline concluded (or the guest got bored and bugged out). Teddy had happened to be the one on the day of the attack and he already had a preset relationship to follow when and if that happened. William could have immersed himself in whatever followed if Logan hadn't pulled him away (same with the one-eyed town drunk with the alleged treasure).

On further thought, I'm not sure if 'reset' is necessarily the best word to describe those days in which Dolores wasn't involved in a specific narrative. It was more of a loop or routine she kept going through that she wasn't exactly cognizant of.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Terrafamilia
further thought.

[spottedreptile]

6 hours ago, Gobi said:

The figure of 30 years has been given in an ambiguous way. "We've had 30 years without a major incident." could mean that it's been 30 years since a malfunction, or that it's been operating for 30 years.

I'm with you here, this "no disaster in 30 years" seems to have been picked up by everyone to run with, but it is rather ambiguous. It could mean that "hey we've been here 30 years and never had a disaster!" just as much as "the last disaster was 30 years ago." I hope it becomes clear soon. I'd kind of like it to be the latter - I want to know what happened 30 years ago too, and how it ties into TMiB.

[Bongo Fury]

I think the Man in Black, Ed Harris, is responsible for the breakdowns in the Hosts. He's been coming to WW for 30 years, he has already experienced all the mundane encounters. By his own statements, he is playing the game at a higher level. So I think he is at the core of the 'problems' that we are seeing. 

 

The incident in the pilot at the Abernathy ranch is clearly a misdirection. The obvious misdirection is the initial assumption by the audience that Teddy is a Newcomer, when in reality he is a Host. But the bigger misdirection is the assumption that when the MiB dragged Dolores off to the barn he was going to rape her. But he has been coming here for 30 years, he has done it all this before, raping Dolores would be pointless for him. Simple rape of a Host is the last thing that would interest him. Rather, I think the point of him and his henchmen attacking the Abernathy ranch was to plant the seeds of the Host corruption. 

 

Look at what has triggered the corruption. First of all, Peter finds the photograph of the real world, that triggers his breakdown, near the corral on the ranch. The photo wasn't obvious, there was only the smallest corner sticking up. Why did Peter notice it? Why did he dig it out? How did that photo get there? Clearly TPTB at WW didn't put it there. So who put it there? And why? What we do know is that it was found subsequent to the MiB's attack on the ranch. 

 

And there's something about the words "these violent delights have violent ends", it seems to be some sort of trigger for the hosts to start acting up. We don't see it directly, but Peter whispers something to Dolores and thereafter she starts acting up. Dolores then says it to Maeve, and she spirals down. Again, this all comes from the Abernathy ranch. 

 

Teddy also seems different after the Abernathy ranch incident. Maybe it's just me, but he seems to be out of it, passive, vacant, not a whole lot of personality.

 

And then Dolores digs up the gun. There is zero indication that it is there, yet she knew to find it there. How? Why? All we know is that it's another anomaly originating at the ranch after the MiB.

 

We're only 2 episodes in, and I could be reading too much into this. But hey, that's why it's called speculation. 

[leejaneagles]

It's interesting that it does all start at the ranch. The affected people go Dolores-Dolores'father-Maeve only after contact with Dolores. 

It does all point towards the MIB on that night having somehow infected Dolores, her father and possibly Teddy. However, the scientists behind all this would surely make that comparision pretty quickly? If so, they'd want to remove MIB from the park and question him or at least keep a very close eye on him.

I found it a bit of a stretch when the Scientist said "That guest gets whatever he wants" when MIB was destroying a town. I can just about believe it that because this man has given millions to the park over 3 decades, they will allow him to kill and rape any hosts he wants even if it makes it a pain in the ass to clean up after him.

What I can't believe is they are watching him try and find this inner working of the system, looking at scalp maps he's not supposed to and being the only real-human anywhere near the scene that kicked off all the malfunctions.

It's more likely they have already determined MIB is not responsible (there are presumably cameras in the barn so even though we didn't the staff must have watched him rape and murder Dolores). 

I also think the scenario he's playing out must at least also be sanctioned or pre-planned. If you were a scientist working at WW and it was legitimately the first time a guest has found scalp map and started shouting about the maze then you'd raise the alarm pretty damn quickly. 

Also, even if the Management and shareholders wanted to give MIB free-reign because they want his money, Anthony Hopkins character who has already denied a new story despite the cost it took to create would say straight away that guest has to be removed and banned from the park. 

[sjohnson]

The robots/androids are the cameras, aren't they?

[leejaneagles]

I wonder what happens if a test scenario like Teddy picking up the can, is only interrupted at one end.

For example, they showed you can be the man that picks up the can and Dolores falls in love with because the MIB did it and also the new Guest. 

I believe both times Teddy also received interaction and was away giving tours or getting shot etc.

What happens if no one interrupts Teddy and then a real Guest and Teddy are both poised to pick up the can? 

Teddy is programmed to be travelling into town by train to find the love of his life and spend the day with her. If he is interrupted by a Guest he re-programs and does what they want but if that doesn't happen does he get jealous? Does he try and fight for her honour and you have to play out a duel scenario to win her love? Does he just stand there moping for the rest of the day?

[ennui]

37 minutes ago, leejaneagles said:

Teddy is programmed to be travelling into town by train to find the love of his life and spend the day with her. If he is interrupted by a Guest he re-programs and does what they want but if that doesn't happen does he get jealous? Does he try and fight for her honour and you have to play out a duel scenario to win her love? Does he just stand there moping for the rest of the day?

It's like GPS, he re-calibrates. And turns left. (Joking!)

[Maximum Taco]

18 hours ago, leejaneagles said:

I wonder what happens if a test scenario like Teddy picking up the can, is only interrupted at one end.

For example, they showed you can be the man that picks up the can and Dolores falls in love with because the MIB did it and also the new Guest. 

I believe both times Teddy also received interaction and was away giving tours or getting shot etc.

What happens if no one interrupts Teddy and then a real Guest and Teddy are both poised to pick up the can? 

Teddy is programmed to be travelling into town by train to find the love of his life and spend the day with her. If he is interrupted by a Guest he re-programs and does what they want but if that doesn't happen does he get jealous? Does he try and fight for her honour and you have to play out a duel scenario to win her love? Does he just stand there moping for the rest of the day?

As the MIB says "Winning doesn't mean anything unless someone else loses... [Teddy] is there to be the loser."

I would guess that if you enter a romantic narrative with Dolores, Teddy (if available) becomes your rival and you have to "win" her affections.

There would probably be multiple ways to do so, you could simply make her like you more than him, or you could surreptitiously kill him and get him out of the way, or you could defeat him in an honourable duel, or you can play it like the MIB and drag her off to rape her after shooting him in front of her.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[ennui]

Since this is the spoiler section, there's a new 4-minute behind the scenes type promo in HBO On Demand. The little boy in the desert is a host, and we get to see his face open up (ick!). I remember there was some speculation about that; and we get to see other hosts exposed. I suspect that the robot aspect might lessen the viewer's affinity for the hosts.

Edited October 14, 2016 by ennui

[Accidental Martyr]

Photos from episode 3 on ew.com.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/10/12/westworld-updates-new-photos-posters-news?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

[ennui]

One of the posters reminds me of the Terminator. With a cowboy hat.

Edited October 14, 2016 by ennui

[arc]

Unless the writers are cheating or giving us a hard misdirection, I don't think Bernard is a bot. The pilot establishes that Dolores is the oldest host in the park. Possibly the oldest host ever. Earlier, Ford was found in sub-level 83 having a drink with "old Bill", who he explicitly says was the second host ever built... and then asks Bernard if Bernard was with us in those days. If Ford built Bernard, he wouldn't have asked that, he would have known that Bernard is either the oldest host (he almost definitely isn't, and he says the days when Bill was built were before his time), or else that Bernard would have been built after Bill.

[Gobi]

I'm wondering about the maze. The girl told TMIB that it isn't meant for him. Could it be exclusively for hosts? Perhaps a training ground of some sort?

Just watched Chestnut again, realized that Maeve was having a nightmare and brought herself out of sleep mode during her "surgery". Definitely a show that rewards rewatching.

[paigow]

Why is the maze printed under the scalp? How would the host "read" it? Why is the map not a file?

[Maximum Taco]

15 hours ago, paigow said:

Why is the maze printed under the scalp? How would the host "read" it? Why is the map not a file?

I think it's clearly meant to be found by someone. It's just not meant for the MIB.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

I think it's clearly meant to be found by someone. It's just not meant for the MIB.

Is this one of those brute force process of elimination quests??? MiB has scalped everyone else over 30 years so "Kessy" had to be carrying the map?

[Maximum Taco]

21 minutes ago, paigow said:

Is this one of those brute force process of elimination quests??? MiB has scalped everyone else over 30 years so "Kessy" had to be carrying the map?

There's probably some kind of weird logic at play that you would only understand from playing the game extensively, or by actually creating the puzzle. 

I mean if you look at some of the video game quests that actually exist they make no sense at all. I remember a puzzle from Escape From Monkey Island where you have to acquire prosthetic skin, then stretch it over an empty manhole to create a trampoline and then use said trampoline to vault yourself to the second story of a bank in order to rob it. Oh and the only way to acquire the prosthetic skin is to answer a quiz where the solution is found on the bottom of the manhole cover. The manhole cover that you have no reason to remove at this point cause you don't even have the god damn trampoline skin.

Video games are just weird.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[Madding crowd]

I really loved the original movie and am cautiously  intrigued. My question is: Why are the robots (hosts) interacting with each other and creating scenarios when no humans are present? I can understand having them in character when people could come into the picture, but what about the scene with Teddy and Delores in a deserted area on horseback? And some of her conversations with her father? It doesn't make sense to me that the robots would not be powered low until a human presented themselves in these random settings. I understand it will lead to the bots having real feelings-but it doesn't make sense to me in terms of the whole production. 

[arc]

It keeps the storylines on schedule. According to the pilot, the saloon robbery is normally designed to climax about two weeks into the narrative. If the hosts stopped and started depending on human presence, then they might not be ready. Even if they could skip ahead in the story, they might not physically be in the right place, as with that delivery that got stuck in the most recent episode because the woodcutter strayed. So in order to run this giant branching, self-correcting narrative that is prone to human disruption, it makes sense to me if it's easiest to just keep all hosts running all the time

[Madding crowd]

That makes sense in terms of the saloon or another business; many guests would enter these places and need a starting position. But why would a guest care about robots interacting with each other out of sight of the guest? I can't think of any reason any of the guests would want to have Teddy and Delores meet, chase each other on horseback and have conversations about the herd; all out of sight and sound of the guest. As for the robots, they should not need any type of continuity outside of what happens with the guest. For example: Ed Harris' character wants to rape Delores and have Teddy as a boyfriend/rescuer that he can kill. Would he really know or care what happened before? I find it hard to believe he would insist the couple have a previous scene without him regarding their romance. The whole point is for the audience to begin to see the robots as real people, but it rings false to me. 

[Gobi]

On 10/16/2016 at 1:04 PM, Maximum Taco said:

 

According  to Bernard, the hosts interact when no customers are around to improve their skills. The more they interact, the more "real" they become.

(Ignore the quote blocks, I can't get rid of them.)

 

On 10/16/2016 at 1:04 PM, Maximum Taco said:

 

[sjohnson]

"Practicing" with each other isn't practice at interacting with humans. Drilling themselves in behavioral patterns is all very well and good, but they need to be behavioral patterns that fool people. The "practicing" is useless for that purpose. What's really going on is the writers are shouting out an excuse for the androids/robots to be "people" even (especially?) when the masters aren't around. The fact that the excuse only superficially makes sense, but falls to pieces upon the slightest examination, is a very bad sign for the show in the long run. It's like Falling Skies and space war. Try as you might, foolishness underneath it all takes a toll. 

[parandroid]

3 hours ago, sjohnson said:

 

"Practicing" with each other isn't practice at interacting with humans. Drilling themselves in behavioral patterns is all very well and good, but they need to be behavioral patterns that fool people. The "practicing" is useless for that purpose. What's really going on is the writers are shouting out an excuse for the androids/robots to be "people" even (especially?) when the masters aren't around. The fact that the excuse only superficially makes sense, but falls to pieces upon the slightest examination, is a very bad sign for the show in the long run. It's like Falling Skies and space war. Try as you might, foolishness underneath it all takes a toll. 

 

Different people draw different lines at whats plausible and whats not of course, but this is not something that bothers me. What you are saying absolutely makes sense, but in all fantasy (are dragons real? can one be brought back from the dead?  (Game of Thrones)), one has to suspend a certain amount of disbelief to go with the story line to understand what the artist is getting at. And lets face it - this is art - not something that is grounded in hard science fact.

Certainly, there are other aspects of this world that are not grounded in science fact. And the whole notion of artificial consciousness itself has been challenged by very rational (but and very smart!)  minds (see "The Emperor's New Mind" by Roger Penrose). Would you choose to not see Star Wars or Star Trek because the whole notion of faster than light travel is unscientific (and no - there is no scientific evidence for the existence of worm holes - so that isn't a loophole either)? Or would you suspend disbelief to enjoy the story?

Edited October 19, 2016 by parandroid
really shouldn't have implied that being rational meant that one isn't smart

[Madding crowd]

It depends on the context. I have no difficulty in believing the robots can play characters who interact with guests and can be programmed to act like a real person. Within the context of the amusement park environment, it makes no sense to me for the robots to have interactions and relationships separate from a guest's story. Having the robots practice with humans before being used makes sense; having experienced robots ride off together and have romantic conversations sans guest does not.

[arc]

How's this idea then: the narrative exists continuously. If a guest ships Dolores and Teddy* and just wants to watch their romance unfold, they can tag along (and the hosts would be programmed not to think it weird that a guest is third wheeling, just as they always accept a guest joining a posse). So there's a month's worth of branching scripts, just for all eventualities. If a guest gets hung up at the saloon for a bit but wants to drop in on their OTP out in the wilderness looking at the herd, then Dolores and Teddy had better be out there, complete with dialogue. And it's not a literal software-only videogame where you can just materialize the characters where they need to be at will. They're physical beings that need to move in real time. So even a hypothetical low-power mode would have to have them and their horses moving at regular speed.

* could easily happen; people have ships for TV and even movies.

[snowwhyte]

i know Delores and Teddy are written as fated lovers but if their feelings towards one another are programmed maybe when they start to break programming their feelings will change. We've seen that Delores was trying to make a connection with Teddy that he seems currently unable to reciprocate in a real way. Maybe Delores will connect more with William since he seems open to accepting that the androids may have reel feelings.

[ennui]

On 10/18/2016 at 9:06 PM, Madding crowd said:

That makes sense in terms of the saloon or another business; many guests would enter these places and need a starting position. But why would a guest care about robots interacting with each other out of sight of the guest? I can't think of any reason any of the guests would want to have Teddy and Delores meet, chase each other on horseback and have conversations about the herd; all out of sight and sound of the guest.

We don't know how many guests there are, and I think one episode said there are over 200 stories active in the park. So, Delores and Teddy could meet and go for a ride, and a guest could appear and interrupt. It's like when Delores was painting the horses and the family came upon her. Guests are free range.

[ACW]

  What happens when more than one guest is competing for the same storyline role, or when one guest's storyline conflicts with another?  Say, William wants to help/romance Dolores and Logan wants to rape/kill her? 

[ennui]

On a car forum I frequent, someone speculated that MiB is Arnold's son. I thought, "oooh!" Theresa came to the park as a child, maybe MiB did too. 

[Gobi]

I think TMIB is much too old to be Arnold's son.

Or maybe not. Assuming Ford and Arnold were about the same age, Hopkins was born in 1937, and Harris in 1950, so it is possible.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Gobi
Content

[Quilt Fairy]

I assume speculation about previews should go here.

In next week's preview, it looked like they had Logan in the underground lab, and he looked like he was a host. That would be a big twist. Of course it was a quick shot, and I've since remembered that it could possibly be Hector (the robber of the brothel safe) since he had similar facial hair. Did anyone else catch that?